Re: Re: Re: Gender: Constructions vs Stereotypes

there is a similarity in language - eugenics assumes that people have inherent value/non-value depending on a political/economic construct called "race" which is not understood by its proponants as constructs, but rather practiced as an ideology (i am defining ideology as "values, beliefs, habits which are assumed to be natural). The enterprise of eugenics was never intended to investigate how people are socialized rather to go (supposedly) beyond to that which is inherent in humans of different skin pigmintation and then draw "logical" value judgements from there. Likewise, there are those who call themselves feminists who believe that males and females have certain inherent traits or essential characteristics - carried to its conclusion - in your words … "If we can analyze the roles that are dictated by culture in regards to gender, we can identify and neutralize them…" Who would be "neutralizing" and who would be Neutralized? I was not asking you to write another essay. I was pointing out that you fall in the camp of essentializing feminists - which I see huge political problems with. This is a classic debate among feminists - the materialists and the essentialists, but i certainly do think that the debate is very much worth having - perhaps not for you - but i am assuming maybe for some of the rhizome users. … and as far as your suggestion for me to write my "own essay" - why? it's so much funner to respond to yours

- i mean that as a compliment.

thanks

mark c


Eryk Salvaggio wrote:

>
>
> PS: Could you elaborate on how my desire to understand the world
> outside of
> the constructs of the power elite connects to your claim that I am
> advocating a philosophy of controlled breeding for humans?
>
> -e.
>
>
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: "mark cooley"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 4:57 PM
> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Gender: Constructions vs Stereotypes
>
>
> >
> >
> > "If we can analyze the roles that are dictated by culture in regards
> to
> gender, we can identify and neutralize them…
> >
> > …Ultimately, my interest in art, and in discussion, is in the
> elimination of role playing at any level of one's identity as a means
> of
> direct contact with whatever sense of self survives the barrage of
> childhood
> in a world built completely on fabrications. This takes place in
> gender, it
> takes place in peoples regulatory and restrictive behaviors and in how
> people interact with authority."
> >
> >
> > These statements explain very nicely the position from which your
> essay
> was written. In that context the essay was very successful. My
> comments
> were meant to point out that the essay assumes that there is such a
> thing as
> socially constructed identity, and at the same time reserves a space
> (whatever that may be) for a non-constructed identity. typically, I
> think
> that this is considered a rightwing enterprise since it sets up an
> opposition between a non-constructed identity (pure) and the
> manipulated
> socially constructed identity (impure).
> >
> > ..i mean come on listen to this language…
> >
> > "dictated by culture… identify and neutralize them… elimination
> of
> role playing at any level of one's identity…"
> >
> > … it sounds like a fucking paper on eugenics.
> >
> >
> > mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Eryk Salvaggio wrote:
> >
> > > Gender constructions are not meant to be gender based stereotypes.
> > > Understanding the constructions of behavior helps identify the
> root at
> > > the
> > > cause and can lead to perpetuation if one is interested in
> > > perpetuation, or
> > > can lead to identification and elimination in one's personal
> behavior.
> > > If
> > > you identify cliches in art you learn to avoid them. The same is
> true
> > > if you
> > > learn to identify cliches in one's identity. If we can analyze the
> > > roles
> > > that are dictated by culture in regards to gender, we can identify
> and
> > > neutralize them.
> > >
> > > The idea behind the Gender essay was simply to point out where
> people
> > > merge
> > > into thier constructions. Ultimately, my interest in art, and in
> > > discussion,
> > > is in the elimination of role playing at any level of one's
> identity
> > > as a
> > > means of direct contact with whatever sense of self survives the
> > > barrage of
> > > childhood in a world built completely on fabrications. This takes
> > > place in
> > > gender, it takes place in peoples regulatory and restrictive
> behaviors
> > > and
> > > in how people interact with authority.
> > >
> > > My hope with the essay was simply to expose what these
> constructions
> > > are-
> > > this is my interest in almost everything I do. To understand
> illusions
> > > so we
> > > know when we are falling prey to them, and losing ourselves in the
> > > process.
> > >
> > > -e.
> > >
> > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > -> post: [email protected]
> > -> questions: [email protected]
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>