artware vs. software art vs. programmed art

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Hello all,

To add to the discussion…

On Saturday, Oct 4, 2003, at 12:16 America/New_York, Antoine Schmitt
wrote:
>>
>> Hello Shirley, Andreas, Pall and all,
>>
>> Wittgenstein seems to have struck again : isn't it all a matter of
>> agreeing on the words.
>> There is no doubt that there is a large group of artistic productions
>> out there that use "programs" as their main material.


Art made with a program does not mean that it is "programmed". Let's
go to the dictionary.

> pro·gram (prōʼgrăm', -grɘm) Pronunciatio=
n Key
> n.
>
> 1.
> a.A listing of the order of events and other pertinent information
> for a public presentation.
> b.The presentation itself: a program of piano pieces.
> 2.A scheduled radio or television show.
> 3.An ordered list of events to take place or procedures to be
> followed; a schedule: a program of physical therapy for a > convalescent.
> 4.A system of services, opportunities, or projects, usually designed
> to meet a social need: “Working parents rely on the center's
> after-school latchkey program” (New York Times).
> 5.
> a.A course of academic study; a curriculum.
> b.A plan or system of academic and related or ancillary activities: a
> work-study program.
> c.A plan or system of nonacademic extracurricular activities: the
> football program.
> 6.A set of coded instructions that enables a machine, especially a
> computer, to perform a desired sequence of operations.
> 7.An instruction sequence in programmed instruction.
>
>
> tr.v. pro·grammed, or pro·gramed pro·gram·ming, or pr=
o·gram·ing
> pro·grams or pro·grams
>
> 1.To include or schedule in a program: program a new musical
> composition.
> 2.To design a program for; schedule the activities of.
> 3.To provide (a machine) with a set of coded working instructions.
> 4.To train to perform automatically in a desired way, as if
> programming a machine: programmed the children to use perfect table
> manners.
> 5.To prepare an instructional sequence for (material to be taught) in
> programmed instruction.
>
>
> [Late Latin programma, public notice, from Greek programma,
> programmat-, from prographein, to write publicly  : pro-, forth; see=

> pro-2 + graphein, to write; see gerbh- in Indo-European
> Roots.]pro·gram'ma·bilʼi·ty n.
> proʼgram'ma·ble adj.
>
>
> Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language,=

> Fourth Edition
> Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
> Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.



Maybe the movies Edo Stern does with games should be called programmed
art. Maybe.

To say that there is something ordered, sequential or prepared in works
like net.flag, netomat or even earth is, well, wrong.


>> A subset of these have "software" as their main subject.


But are paintings about roses, rose art?
But are sculptures about dogs, dog art?

So pictures of women should be called women's art?


>> Wouldn't everybody be pleased by naming the first group "programmed
>> art" and the second "software art"?



No. I can attest to the fact that Napier, the one artist whose name was
first circulated in this thread HATES the monickers because they tend
to be innacurate.

You would not call paintings made with acrylics acrylic art, right?
You would not call a sculpture made with boxes box art, correct?



>> This is the position that I have taken recently in my talks. I use
>> this terminology because "program" is a more generic word,



No it is not a generic word at all. The clock on your computer is a
program. It is supposed to give you the time. A program usually
involves a limited amount of functions. Let's go to Dictionary.com

> The noun "program" describes a single, complete and more-or-less
> self-contained list of instructions, often stored in a single file ,
> whereas "code" and "software" are uncountable nouns describing some
> number of instructions which may constitute one or more programs or
> part thereof. Most programs, however, rely heavily on various kinds of
> operating system software for their execution. The nounds "code" and
> "software" both refer to the same thing but "code" tends to suggest an
> interest in the implementation details whereas "software" is more of a
> user's term.


The correct way to use the term software is to refer either to a SYSTEM
software or an APPLICATION software. Alex Galloway's CARNIVORE is a
SYSTEM SOFTWARE for which a group of artists created CLIENTS (which in
this case would be better named as APPLICATION SOFTWARE). Most net and
software artists create APPLICATIONS. Some of those applications are so
specific that one could say they are programs. Mark Napier's The
Shredder is a program. On the other hand, Net Flag is an application.
Klima's "Jack and Jill" is a program but EARTH is an application.

Then there is Yael Kanarek's "World of Awe", which is all about
software, hardware, computers, you name it almost always NEVER referred
to as software art.




>> and "software" tends to mean "commercial software product", which
>> gives it a "cultural" orientation.



So a digital distortion of a painting made with Photoshop is software
art.
So a photo-journal made with BBEdit is software art.
So an animation made with Flash is software art.

What about open-source, non-commercial software?

And why would making art with Flash would give the artwork a cultural
orientation?

Now, let's take the etymology of HARDWARE


> hard·ware (hardʼwar') Pronunciation Key
> n.
>
> 1.Metal goods and utensils such as locks, tools, and cutlery.
> 2.
> a.Computer Science. A computer and the associated physical equipment
> directly involved in the performance of data-processing or
> communications functions.
> b.Machines and other physical equipment directly involved in
> performing an industrial, technological, or military function.
> 3.Informal. Weapons, especially military weapons.
>
> Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language,=

> Fourth Edition
> Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
> Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.



And of SOFTWARE

> soft·ware (softʼwar', sŏftʼ-) Pronun=
ciation Key
> n. Computer Science
>
> The programs, routines, and symbolic languages that control the
> functioning of the hardware and direct its operation.
>
> Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language,=

> Fourth Edition
> Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
> Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
> [Buy it]
>

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Hello all,


To add to the discussion…


On Saturday, Oct 4, 2003, at 12:16 America/New_York, Antoine Schmitt
wrote:

<excerpt><excerpt>

Hello Shirley, Andreas, Pall and all,


Wittgenstein seems to have struck again : isn't it all a matter of
agreeing on the words.

There is no doubt that there is a large group of artistic productions
out there that use "programs" as their main material.

</excerpt></excerpt>


Art made with a program does not mean that it is "programmed". Let's
go to the dictionary.


<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Lucida Grande</param><bigger><bigger><bigger>pr=
o·gram
(prō<bold>ʼ</bold>grăm',
-gr</bigger></bigger></bigger></fontfamily><fontfamily><param>Hiragino Kaku=
Gothic Pro</param><bigger><bigger><bigger>ɘ</bigger></bigger></bigger=
></fontfamily><fontfamily><param>Lucida Grande</param><bigger><bigger><bigg=
er>m)</bigger></bigger></bigger> <bold><underline><color><param>1A19,1=
A19,FFFE</param><smaller>Pronunciation
Key

</smaller></color></underline></bold>n.


1.

a.A listing of the order of events and other pertinent information
for a public presentation.

b.The presentation itself: a program of piano pieces.

2.A scheduled radio or television show.

3.An ordered list of events to take place or procedures to be
followed; a schedule: a program of physical therapy for a convalescent.

4.A system of services, opportunities, or projects, usually designed
to meet a social need: “Working parents rely on the center's
after-school latchkey program” (New York Times).

5.

a.A course of academic study; a curriculum.

b.A plan or system of academic and related or ancillary activities: a
work-study program.

c.A plan or system of nonacademic extracurricular activities: the
football program.

6.A set of coded instructions that enables a machine, especially a
computer, to perform a desired sequence of operations.

7.An instruction sequence in programmed instruction.



tr.v. <bold>pro·grammed,</bold> or <bold>pro·gramed</bold>
<bold>pro·gram·ming,</bold> or <bold>pro·gram·ing</bold>
<bold>pro·grams </bold>or <bold>pro·grams</bold>


1.To include or schedule in a program: program a new musical
composition.

2.To design a program for; schedule the activities of.

3.To provide (a machine) with a set of coded working instructions.

4.To train to perform automatically in a desired way, as if
programming a machine: programmed the children to use perfect table
manners.

5.To prepare an instructional sequence for (material to be taught) in
programmed instruction.



[Late Latin</fontfamily><fontfamily><param>Courier</param>
programma</fontfamily><fontfamily><param>Lucida Grande</param>, public
notice, from Greek</fontfamily><fontfamily><param>Courier</param>
programma,
programmat-</fontfamily><fontfamily><param>Lucida Grande</param>,
from</fontfamily><fontfamily><param>Courier</param> prographein</fontfamily=
><fontfamily><param>Lucida Grande</param>,
to write publicly  :</fontfamily><fontfamily><param>Courier</param>
pro-</fontfamily><fontfamily><param>Lucida Grande</param>, forth; see
<bold>pro-</bold><smaller>2</smaller>
+</fontfamily><fontfamily><param>Courier</param> graphein</fontfamily><font=
family><param>Lucida Grande</param>,
to write; see</fontfamily><fontfamily><param>Courier</param> gerbh-
</fontfamily><fontfamily><param>Lucida Grande</param>in Indo-European
Roots.]<bold>pro·gram'ma·bilʼi·ty</bold> n.

<bold>proʼgram'ma·ble</bold> adj.



<underline><color><param>1A19,1A19,FFFE</param><smaller>Source</smaller></c=
olor></underline><smaller>:
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth
Edition

Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

</smaller></fontfamily></excerpt><fontfamily><param>Lucida Grande</param><s=
maller>

</smaller></fontfamily>


Maybe the movies Edo Stern does with games should be called programmed
art. Maybe.


To say that there is something ordered, sequential or prepared in
works like net.flag, netomat or even earth is, well, wrong.



<excerpt><excerpt>A subset of these have "software" as their main
subject.

</excerpt></excerpt>


But are paintings about roses, rose art?

But are sculptures about dogs, dog art?


So pictures of women should be called women's art?



<excerpt><excerpt>Wouldn't everybody be pleased by naming the first
group "programmed art" and the second "software art"?

</excerpt></excerpt>



No. I can attest to the fact that Napier, the one artist whose name
was first circulated in this thread HATES the monickers because they
tend to be innacurate.


You would not call paintings made with acrylics acrylic art, right?

You would not call a sculpture made with boxes box art, correct?




<excerpt><excerpt> This is the position that I have taken recently in
my talks. I use this terminology because "program" is a more generic
word,

</excerpt></excerpt>



No it is not a generic word at all. The clock on your computer is a
program. It is supposed to give you the time. A program usually
involves a limited amount of functions. Let's go to Dictionary.com


<excerpt>The<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>noun<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> "</fontfamily>program<=
fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>"
</fontfamily>describes<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>a<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>single,<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> </fontfamily>comple=
te<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>and<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
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mily><param>Al Bayan</param>-</fontfamily>less<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</=
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<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>list<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>of<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> </fontfamily>instruction=
s,<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>often<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>stored<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>in<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> </fontfamily>a<fontfamil=
y><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>single<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily><color><param>0000,3333,FFFF</param>file<fontfamily><param>Al =
Bayan</param>
</fontfamily></color>,<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>whereas<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
"</fontfamily>code<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>"
</fontfamily>and<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> "</fontfamily>software<=
fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>"
</fontfamily>are<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>uncountable<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>nouns<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>describing<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>some<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
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</fontfamily>of<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> </fontfamily>instruction=
s<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
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</fontfamily>or<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> </fontfamily>more<fontfa=
mily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>programs<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>or<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>part<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> </fontfamily>thereof<f=
ontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>.
</fontfamily>Most<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>programs,<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>however,<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>rely<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>heavily<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>on<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> </fontfamily>various<fon=
tfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>kinds<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>of<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> </fontfamily><color><par=
am>0000,3333,FFFF</param>operating<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>system<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily></color>software<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>for<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>their<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> </fontfamily>executio=
n<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>.
</fontfamily>The<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>nounds<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> "</fontfamily>code<f=
ontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>"
</fontfamily>and<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
"</fontfamily>software<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>"
</fontfamily>both<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>refer<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> </fontfamily>to<fontf=
amily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>the<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>same<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> </fontfamily>thing<fon=
tfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>but<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
"</fontfamily>code<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>"
</fontfamily>tends<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>to<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> </fontfamily>suggest<fon=
tfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>an<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>interest<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>in<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>the<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> </fontfamily>implementa=
tion<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>details<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>whereas<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
"</fontfamily>software<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>"
</fontfamily>is<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>more<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param> </fontfamily>of<fontfa=
mily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>a<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>user<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>'</fontfamily>s<fontfam=
ily><param>Al Bayan</param>
</fontfamily>term<fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param>.

</fontfamily></excerpt><fontfamily><param>Al Bayan</param><bigger>


</bigger></fontfamily>The correct way to use the term software is to
refer either to a SYSTEM software or an APPLICATION software. Alex
Galloway's CARNIVORE is a SYSTEM SOFTWARE for which a group of artists
created CLIENTS (which in this case would be better named as
APPLICATION SOFTWARE). Most net and software artists create
APPLICATIONS. Some of those applications are so specific that one
could say they are programs. Mark Napier's The Shredder is a program.
On the other hand, Net Flag is an application. Klima's "Jack and Jill"
is a program but EARTH is an application.


Then there is Yael Kanarek's "World of Awe", which is all about
software, hardware, computers, you name it almost always NEVER
referred to as software art.





<excerpt><excerpt>and "software" tends to mean "commercial software
product", which gives it a "cultural" orientation.

</excerpt></excerpt>



So a digital distortion of a painting made with Photoshop is software
art.

So a photo-journal made with BBEdit is software art.

So an animation made with Flash is software art.


What about open-source, non-commercial software?


And why would making art with Flash would give the artwork a cultural
orientation?


Now, let's take the etymology of HARDWARE



<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Lucida Grande</param><bigger><bigger><bigger>ha=
rd·ware
(hard<bold>ʼ</bold>war')</bigger></bigger></bigger> <bo=
ld><underline><color><param>1A1A,1A1A,FFFF</param><smaller>Pronunciation
Key

</smaller></color></underline></bold>n.


1.Metal goods and utensils such as locks, tools, and cutlery.

2.

a.<underline>Computer Science.</underline> A computer and the
associated physical equipment directly involved in the performance of
data-processing or communications functions.

b.Machines and other physical equipment directly involved in
performing an industrial, technological, or military function.

3.<underline>Informal.</underline> Weapons, especially military
weapons.


<underline><color><param>1A1A,1A1A,FFFF</param><smaller>Source</smaller></c=
olor></underline><smaller>:
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth
Edition

Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

</smaller></fontfamily></excerpt>



And of SOFTWARE


<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Lucida Grande</param><bigger><bigger><bigger>so=
ft·ware
(soft<bold>ʼ</bold>war',
sŏft<bold>ʼ</bold>-)</bigger></bigger></bigger> <bold><unde=
rline><color><param>1A1A,1A1A,FFFF</param><smaller>Pronunciation
Key

</smaller></color></underline></bold>n. <underline>Computer Science</underl=
ine>


The programs, routines, and symbolic languages that control the
functioning of the hardware and direct its operation.


<underline><color><param>1A1A,1A1A,FFFF</param><smaller>Source</smaller></c=
olor></underline><smaller>:
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth
Edition

Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

[<underline><color><param>1A1A,1A1A,FFFF</param>Buy
it</color></underline>]


</smaller></fontfamily></excerpt>
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