Re: Re: data diaries

Feb. 18, 2003

Type: discussion

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<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">One of the things that I would really
be interested in knowing is what…</span></font></div>
<p><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">"</span></font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12pt">But the greatest thing about Cory's net art is that he's not a net
artist. He never was and never will be"</span></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">is all about in Galloway's introduction. </span></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">Why and How does that sentence contextualise the
work for me? Will I
see or understand the piece better knowing this? I'm not on the attack I
just would be interested in what people make of this sentence. I know
the debates to whether joshua davis (for example) is a 'real' net artist
affect the way people view his work… Is this why arcangel can (sorry,
marisa) deliver concept over form..?</span></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">I'm in NY next week (If I can get my wheels past
the snow) and I having
just slurred one of their own I'll probably be having coffee by myself too.
keep yer' mouth shut loseby. </span></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">j.</span></font></p>
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<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> –> dear all,
i'm taking these a bit out of order, but wanted to </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> respond to a
few of the things that have been said about _data </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> diaries_…</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> t.whid said:</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> "All art
builds on what has come before, sometimes it leaps forward, </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> sometimes it
steps forward. to deny that is to deny how human </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> creativity functions."</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> –> this is
well put and also reminds us of the conceptual & </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> structural overlaps
between language and visual art (and, perhaps </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> even more so,
here, its history). let's think of ourselves as working </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> with a dictionary.
we only have so many words at our disposal. we may </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> come up with
new ways to combine or alter them, new poetics, new </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> narratologies,
even, but we are constantly working within the domain </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> of language and,
whether we like it or not, our use of it–even or </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> attempts to "deny"
it–simply act to underscore it. that said, it's </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> great when an
artist (in any medium) can work in a way that is </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> appropriately
self-reflexive, that is aware of its conditions while </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> doing something
about or within them. at times, this means going back </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> to very basic,
root structures. or repeating existing structures for </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> the sake of controlled,
observable repetition through which the </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> artist benefits
personally/creatively/intellectually (in learning </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> form the repetition)
and, hopefully, from which a reader/viewer can </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> benefit in the
experience of that performative function. arcangel has </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> done all of this.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> jess loseby said:</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> "The fact
the final product is weak is just something that we (as </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> viewers and artists)
seemed to have started to accept as ok in </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> conceptual art…"
<…> "why not take a bit more time on what the </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> piece actually
looks like and the aesthetics of the translation…? </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> Corys work…
looks…so basic."</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> –> i think
that the latter would be a compliment to arcangel. this </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> mostly subjective/comparative
interpretation should not serve to </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> deface a work
or its "value," should we feel compelled to assign it </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> one. beyond this,
i am curious why, more specifically, it would be </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> called "weak."</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> lewis lacook
said:</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> "the thing
about works as conceptual as this is that there's all too </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> often a poverty
of sensory material…which is the point behind </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> conceptual work…to
avoid there being any sort of art object at </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> all…this of
course is a hybrid, and i find this fascinating…" </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> <…> "codepoetry?
<…> the innerworkings of something we're not </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> meant to see…"</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> –> i'd like
to better understand what you are saying here. i think </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> that we (those
of us engaged in this discussion) need to better flesh </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> out our use of
the term "conceptual," as i do not see "minimalist" </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> or, as i said,
"arte poverte" being wholly constitutive of </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> "conceptual"
art, nor is the latter an appropriate description of </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> _data diaries_.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> –> "codepoetry"
is a great term and quite applicable, here. of </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> course, rather
than having a revelation of the code, there is a new </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> iteration or
translation of the code, into another, visual lexicon…</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> michael szpakowski
said:</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> "What makes
all the above notable for me?- engagement with the human </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> and with the
human being in society; high degree of technical ability </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> (and a willingness
to undertake drudgery) sometimes bordering on </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> virtuosity but
not to an obsessional extent & rarely entirely for </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> it's own sake;
universality - relatively independent of context -even </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> though often
very much of it's time nevertheless it resonates for us </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> now.. ..and I
think I'd want to argue that somewhere in there lies a </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> framework for
what justifies art as a human activity." {and}: "(in </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> the long run
we're all dust) but not in the historical, hundreds of </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> yearsy medium
term scale which is the only really graspable and </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> meaningful one
for us humans- us and our culturally preserved </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> memories"</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> –> i find
this interesting criteria and, just for the sake of </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> dragging it out,
i'd like to lay it over _data diaries_. DD is an </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> autobiographical
project and its basic elements are unique to so many </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> of us. (both
its content and delivery vehicle.) this is, in fact, </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> quite "human."
i would also absolutely say that arcangel's work is </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> "virtuoso"
(with all the flair that connotes) but not obsessionally. </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> the kid can code
but he's applied his skills to what reads as minimal </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> work and uses
equipment/software/media that subvert the fetishization </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> of the highest
technology. (yes, there is, indeed a retroactive </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> fetishization,
here, but let's just say that i obviously favor it in </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> difference to
the new, new, new.)</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> –> it is
difficult to call software-driven art timeless, in any way. </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> it is ephemeral
and takes a central place in the very constellation </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> of pseudo-darwinian
technolution that privileges the new. </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> nevertheless,
_data diaries_ is very aware of its time, looking back </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> to a bygone aesthetic,
revolving around a person's use of time and a </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> computer's processing
of it, and giving us a project which contorts </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> time at a time
in which is is urgently demanded that we consider the </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> after-effects
of said technolution.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> marisa</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> _________________</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> Marisa S. Olson</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> Associate Director</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> SF Camerawork</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> 415. 863. 1001</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><br/>
</div>
<div align="left"><br/></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"> o</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">/^ rssgallery.com</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"> ][</span></font></div>
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Comments

2003-02-18 22:01, marc garrett

Hi Jess,

Alex said he was going to buy me drink about a year ago and Im quite thirst=
y…

marc

One of the things that I would really be interested in knowing is what…
"But the greatest thing about Cory's net art is that he's not a net artis=
t. He never was and never will be"

is all about in Galloway's introduction.

Why and How does that sentence contextualise the work for me? Will I see =
or understand the piece better knowing this? I'm not on the attack I just w=
ould be interested in what people make of this sentence. I know the debates=
to whether joshua davis (for example) is a 'real' net artist affect the wa=
y people view his work… Is this why arcangel can (sorry, marisa) deliver =
concept over form..?

I'm in NY next week (If I can get my wheels past the snow) and I having j=
ust slurred one of their own I'll probably be having coffee by myself too. =
keep yer' mouth shut loseby.

j.

> –> dear all, i'm taking these a bit out of order, but wanted to
> respond to a few of the things that have been said about _data
> diaries_…
>
> t.whid said:
> "All art builds on what has come before, sometimes it leaps forward,
> sometimes it steps forward. to deny that is to deny how human
> creativity functions."
>
> –> this is well put and also reminds us of the conceptual &
> structural overlaps between language and visual art (and, perhaps
> even more so, here, its history). let's think of ourselves as working=

> with a dictionary. we only have so many words at our disposal. we may=

> come up with new ways to combine or alter them, new poetics, new
> narratologies, even, but we are constantly working within the domain
> of language and, whether we like it or not, our use of it–even or
> attempts to "deny" it–simply act to underscore it. that said, it's
> great when an artist (in any medium) can work in a way that is
> appropriately self-reflexive, that is aware of its conditions while
> doing something about or within them. at times, this means going back=

> to very basic, root structures. or repeating existing structures for
> the sake of controlled, observable repetition through which the
> artist benefits personally/creatively/intellectually (in learning
> form the repetition) and, hopefully, from which a reader/viewer can
> benefit in the experience of that performative function. arcangel has=

> done all of this.
>
> jess loseby said:
> "The fact the final product is weak is just something that we (as
> viewers and artists) seemed to have started to accept as ok in
> conceptual art…" <…> "why not take a bit more time on what the
> piece actually looks like and the aesthetics of the translation…?
> Corys work… looks…so basic."
>
> –> i think that the latter would be a compliment to arcangel. this
> mostly subjective/comparative interpretation should not serve to
> deface a work or its "value," should we feel compelled to assign it
> one. beyond this, i am curious why, more specifically, it would be
> called "weak."
>
> lewis lacook said:
> "the thing about works as conceptual as this is that there's all too
> often a poverty of sensory material…which is the point behind
> conceptual work…to avoid there being any sort of art object at
> all…this of course is a hybrid, and i find this fascinating…"
> <…> "codepoetry? <…> the innerworkings of something we're not
> meant to see…"
>
> –> i'd like to better understand what you are saying here. i think
> that we (those of us engaged in this discussion) need to better flesh=

> out our use of the term "conceptual," as i do not see "minimalist"
> or, as i said, "arte poverte" being wholly constitutive of
> "conceptual" art, nor is the latter an appropriate description of
> _data diaries_.
>
> –> "codepoetry" is a great term and quite applicable, here. of
> course, rather than having a revelation of the code, there is a new
> iteration or translation of the code, into another, visual lexicon…
>
> michael szpakowski said:
> "What makes all the above notable for me?- engagement with the human
> and with the human being in society; high degree of technical ability=

> (and a willingness to undertake drudgery) sometimes bordering on
> virtuosity but not to an obsessional extent & rarely entirely for
> it's own sake; universality - relatively independent of context -even=

> though often very much of it's time nevertheless it resonates for us
> now.. ..and I think I'd want to argue that somewhere in there lies a
> framework for what justifies art as a human activity." {and}: "(in
> the long run we're all dust) but not in the historical, hundreds of
> yearsy medium term scale which is the only really graspable and
> meaningful one for us humans- us and our culturally preserved
> memories"
>
> –> i find this interesting criteria and, just for the sake of
> dragging it out, i'd like to lay it over _data diaries_. DD is an
> autobiographical project and its basic elements are unique to so many=

> of us. (both its content and delivery vehicle.) this is, in fact,
> quite "human." i would also absolutely say that arcangel's work is
> "virtuoso" (with all the flair that connotes) but not obsessionally.
> the kid can code but he's applied his skills to what reads as minimal=

> work and uses equipment/software/media that subvert the fetishization=

> of the highest technology. (yes, there is, indeed a retroactive
> fetishization, here, but let's just say that i obviously favor it in
> difference to the new, new, new.)
>
> –> it is difficult to call software-driven art timeless, in any way.=

> it is ephemeral and takes a central place in the very constellation
> of pseudo-darwinian technolution that privileges the new.
> nevertheless, _data diaries_ is very aware of its time, looking back
> to a bygone aesthetic, revolving around a person's use of time and a
> computer's processing of it, and giving us a project which contorts
> time at a time in which is is urgently demanded that we consider the
> after-effects of said technolution.
>
> marisa
>
> _________________
> Marisa S. Olson
> Associate Director
> SF Camerawork
> 415. 863. 1001

o
/^ rssgallery.com
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