Re: [webartery] Re:"digital polis" .verse.s. [_net.work pol.pot_]==;-}

mez sez:::


.wurks
.r
.[k]not


:.
.d|[con]fined
.bi
.yr
.own
.d[efinition]box


LL: i don't really think it's about my definitions,
mez…it's more about the nature of that work…i
mean, i know how to do this stuff, so when i look at
say a flash work, i usually have a good idea of how
it's put together…
i'm not saying such work doesn't have its own merits,
nor am i writing such work off entirely…what i'm
saying is: if net art is to be a new art form, a form
distinct from text and cinema (which can incorporate
text and sound), then the work needs to depend on the
network in some basic way, & i don't mean simply for
distribution or cross-pollination…
with the introduction of photography, many artists
moved away from figuritive work…it was a way to
distinguish painting from photography…text took a
while longer to move in this direction, but most of
modernism was about making art that so perfectly fit
its medium that it couldn't be realized in any other
way…one can't translate Finnegan's Wake into cinema
because it's a linguistic experience…at least not
without damaging the work, veering away from the
actual experience of the work (hmmmm….reading the
work aloud, the voice, is also a different experience,
and damages the work somewhat…which is not to say
that these experiences might not be artworks in their
own right)
what i'm saying is, i would like to see a work that
really utilizes the network literally…gogolchat does
this…it depends on the network in order to manifest
itself…it can't be taken from the network and
translated into any other form, because that would
fundamentally change the experience of the
work…ada1852 by chris fahey is another work like
that…


mez::::.u[se]
.unda
.write
.with
.out
.C++.ing


LL:::which is what you do…you use coding conventions
to wring different layers of meaning from text…you
parse phonemes, morphemes…which is brilliant, as
poetry…



LL (from previous node):i want a new art form, a new
form of digital poetry that's less cinematic…

MEZ:::.a.gain[st]
..
….
……
.yr.
.printLo[x]a[n]d[N + yoke]
.grain

.u
.do.NT.

LL: don't mistake my work in poetry for net
art…they're two quite distinct things…this is why,
when i do a net piece, i don't simply try to translate
(and have no interest in trying to render) a poem that
started out as a poem into an enhanced multimedic
form…the net pieces begin first of all with an idea
of something possible…can i take user-input in,
randomly seed it, randomly seed a few templates, and
output it in a literary form ==(i like getting user
input for net works because it represents for me a
trio collaboration::::myself, the user, and the
machine::::wherein the work itself ends up being
authored mostly by the user and the machine///i only
build something for it to go in////this is different
than the poetry, which i was doing before this, which
was the world i came from///when i send a text out to
a list, it is not net art, it's just text, it's
poetry///


this is why, pretty as much "digital poetry" is, i'm
disappointed in it…it operates with a totalitarian
economy…it's closed, no-one can walk inside it
really, no one can move anything in it….at least in
the ones that are just animation….and the ones using
rollOver, what's interesting there is time, what that
does to time////rollovers do frustrate linear
experience…but as one who codes, i often look at
them and think, well, yeah, but try doing that without
buttons, hidden or visible…try doing it based wholly
on the movement of the mouse…

i mean, honestly, with the majority of digital poetry,
the statements and pronouncements of its practitioners
end up being more interesting than the work itself…
bliss
l


///////////////////////////////////////
From: "sub.sista" <netwurker@h…>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 8:21 pm
Subject: Re: [webartery] Re:"digital poll[uting]"
.verse.s. [_net.work poll.en_]




At 02:50 PM 9/11/2002 -0800, you wrote:

>don't misunderstand me too quickly!

.hoarse
.-[quarterer N]
.-drawn
.&
.print
.echo
.s.pin[e]al
.t[r]apped…………

>i don't want nor believe they SHOULD be distinct
forms…BUT it all too
>often seems to me that they are…


.seams
.2
.me[me[


>there's a fundamental difference between, say, 'the
dreamlife of letters'
>and jimpunk/bruno with their gogolchat….and all too
often, looking at
>works that tout themselves as 'digital poetry,' i'm
>disappointed…disappointed because there's so much
potential in the
>medium not being used…too often i see nothing more
than text that
>moves…which is great, but no different than cinema,
and not indicative
>of a new artform…or i see works that use rollovers
as their only source
>of user-interaction, which, while justifying their
presence on the machine
>and network, and introducing some reactivity to the
work, is still pretty
>basic stuff (and with the tools used, require no
writing or understanding
>of code)…

.these
.wurks
.r
.[k]not


:.
.d|[con]fined
.bi
.yr
.own
.d[efinition]box

.u[se]
.unda
.write
.with
.out
.C++.ing

>all of which is fine, really (some of these works are
quite beautiful and
>intriguing)…but i hunger for more (as usual, being
American, which is
>probably why we screw the world up so often)….

.&
.mis
.
.match[ing]

.my
.re:[4]ply
.weaves.
.the
.[s]sense
.of
.soft+hard.
.w.here.

.net.wurked
.in
.w.here[?].
.
.XXssed
.+
.broken.

>i want a new art form, a new form of digital poetry
that's less cinematic…

.a.gain[st]
..
….
……
.yr.
.printLo[x]a[n]d[N + yoke]
.grain

.u
.do.NT.

>why can't a digital poem do what gogolchat does, or
what chris fahey's
>ada1852 does? is there work out there like that?
where can i see it?
>because i desperately want to see it…

.dis.[UR]Locate
.
..
…
.ur-locate
.if
.u
.can.



. . …. …..
pro][tean][.lapsing.txt
.
.
www.cddc.vt.edu/host/netwurker/
http://www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker/
http://www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker/display.myopia.swf

…. . .??? …….



=====

Anningan (in progress) http://www.lewislacook.com/Anningan/AnningansDoor.html
http://www.lewislacook.com/
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/385/lewis_lacook.html
meditation, net art, poeisis: blog http://lewislacook.blogspot.com/


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