Re: The Artist speaking of his Brushes etc and otherstuff

Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Artist speaking of his Brushes etc and other stufflisa=
jewbratt said it very nicely: "…programers, when you need one, they're n=
ever there
that's why i had to learn per=
l …"
—– Original Message —–

From: Marcus Kirsch
To: wowm
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Artist speaking of his Brushes etc and othe=

why not simplhy try to put a good coder and a good artist together
i know its very hard to doe (mindset and so on)
but otherwise we have to wait for another generation of artists before we=
can go o n producing things


on 11/8/02 13:07, wowm at [email protected] wrote:

you forgot: "bad artists, bad coders"

—– Original Message —–
From: Pall Thayer <mailto:[email protected]>
To: Jess Loseby <mailto:[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Artist speaking of his Brushes etc and =
other stuff

So, if I go out in the mornings and collect rosebuds and dandelions a=
nd scan them in to use for colors in Flash, can I still be 6RC?

Seriously, what the Flash debate comes down to (and I think I said th=
is before, about 3 or 4 years ago) is the fact that there is no such thing =
as an "easy" medium. There are alot of people out there doing Flash stuff b=
ecause Flash is so "easy" to use. But unless they spend time to "really" le=
arn the medium, what they do is never going to be great. Also we have alot =
of people who are good coders and bad artists and good artists but bad code=
rs. Unless they can become both, what they do is most likely going to be ra=
ther insignificant. But again, Flash is a good medium that has a lot to off=
er and I think shunning it is antiproductive to the net art community.


Hinn 10.08.2002 kl. 23:54 ritadhi Jess Loseby:

just thought i'd stop by and have my usual moan…
stop me if if you've heard it, like the last 20 time we =
the rules..:-)
i tend to think the rules as a loose general guide-line or an ideal=
can be
good thing for some (although i also kind of think one point of bei=
ng an
artist is to break any possible rule that's going but that's by the=
by..) I
also think that if you can follow them and produce the kind of work=
eryk is at the moment then its got to be a good thing for some arti=

why do we always have to slid so quickly into "flash is corporate,=

crappy, obvious crap" discussion..
firstly, if you have a programming background, lovely! - enjoy the =
guys, there's little doubt about the freedom it gives you. But flas=
h makes
the net accessible to the many artists who haven't got the
time/money/inclination to spend god knows how long learning another=

language when they they have a pretty user-friendly one that means=

they can play with artistic ideas rather than programming ones stra=

Secondly, when I was creating textiles long ago, there used to be t=
boring unending debates about useing 'natural dyes' against ready=

mixed ones. The argument being that ready mixed dyes were for plebs=

who could be arsed to go out there and LEARN the craft, who weren't=

REAL artists because they didn't know the DEEP personal satisfactio=
that came from gathering rosehips at dawn and boiling them down for=

80 hours to produce the EXACT shade of pink for their ART. Same
goes with this debate. Flash is seen as the cheep, commercial, cop-=
for the lazy guys. YAWN. it's just a kind of pride. Coding takes lo=
takes longer to learn, is clever… so it HAS to be better,yes?

well, perhaps if it wasn't about art maybe. But whether an artwork=

'works' as a piece has little to do with the time the artist has ta=
ken to
learn, where they learned, or how they did it. You can spend 6 mont=
coding a piece and it can still be crap. You can 6 months of a flas=
piece and it can be crap. You can manipulate an image in 20 minutes=

and it can be bloody brilliant. Because artworks have much more abo=
them than the tools…it 'works' as a piece of art because of one o=
r more
of a mix of aesthetics, form, content, style, colour (or lack of), =
tone ("),
agenda, politics, play, text, texture, sound, emotion, reaction(s),=

observation, rebellion etc etc etc (delete or add to taste)

perhaps its the old art and craft divide again. Craft has always be=
the 'skill' of the craftsman, art (arguably) about the 'object'. A =
wouldn't use flash and artist might…? Perhaps it is the same way =
craftsman would only use the best wood to make a beautiful table
whereas an artist would make the table out of teabags, matchsticks,=

lego blocks..just about anything if it said and did what the artist=
it to.

Macromedia Is shite. I use it all the time and I hate them. I put u=
p with it
with it because it frees me from my fear of code (alien language) a=
lets me explore. I'm working with video at the moment. I just could=
have done with it what I'm doing in flash without another 3 years, =
more money and a new brain (mine melts at anything above basic
'nuff said. I've bored even myself.
jess. o

+ vs. every art school ever…
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Pall Thayer
Fjolbrautaskolanum vidh Armula (