rent-a-negro.com

Posted by ryan griffis | Thu May 1st 2003 5:47 p.m.

a web/performance project from damali ayo

http://rent-a-negro.com/

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  • MTAA | Fri May 2nd 2003 10:55 a.m.
    +sent yesterday but mistakenly replied to the original poster only+

    >a web/performance project from damali ayo
    >
    >http://rent-a-negro.com/
    >

    speaking of race:

    http://www.salon.com/mwt/wire/2003/05/01/georgia/index.html
    Georgians plan whites-only prom party

    ++
    What sort of bizarro world is the south?

    --
    <twhid>
    http://www.mteww.com
    </twhid>
  • ryan griffis | Fri May 2nd 2003 1:47 p.m.
    > http://www.salon.com/mwt/wire/2003/05/01/georgia/index.html
    > Georgians plan whites-only prom party
    >
    > ++
    > What sort of bizarro world is the south?

    hey... i'm from the south. well, the atlantic side of florida, so i guess it was really more of a "colonized" south. ;)
    but seriously, georgia can surprise you.
  • patrick lichty | Fri May 2nd 2003 4:25 p.m.
    > > http://www.salon.com/mwt/wire/2003/05/01/georgia/index.html
    > > Georgians plan whites-only prom party
    > > What sort of bizarro world is the south?

    Not surprising at all, actually.
    I mean, I live in Baton Rouge, LA - I'd say tied for 2nd most progressive
    town in the state with Shreveport.
    But here, they got the schools to finally desegreget after 34 years in the
    courts, SOuthern University is still going strong (but they just elected a
    white class president), and the town is largely segregated, although the
    races are on very good terms here.

    However, although segregation is not legal, you can go on fo rhours about
    institutional segregation/racism here. Most of it is educational/economic.

    THis is a very complex subject, and I'll go into it if anyone wants me to.

    HOwever, if you get into cajun country, pockets of the 'old ways' still
    exist...

    For example, in Plaquemine Parish courthouse (we have Parishes instead of
    counties, as we still operate under Napoleonic code), there is still a
    segregated water fountain.

    The biggest rift here is really cultural, more than anything. For this
    reason, the blacks and whites largely self-segregate. I find this
    happening at the movie lines (saw it last week), and my wife did a poetry
    slam, and the sides of the audience divided very neatly. It's just weird.

    Is this Jim Crow? No, as in some ways, I think that the end result of
    King's legacy here is that people have the _choice_ to be where they are,
    although this isn't 100% true...

    It is a bit strange, though.
  • MTAA | Fri May 2nd 2003 10:03 p.m.
    On Friday, May 2, 2003, at 03:27 PM, Patrick Lichty wrote:

    >
    >> > http://www.salon.com/mwt/wire/2003/05/01/georgia/index.html
    >> > Georgians plan whites-only prom party
    >> > What sort of bizarro world is the south?
    >
    > Not surprising at all, actually.

    That's what scares me.

    > I mean, I live in Baton Rouge, LA - I'd say tied for 2nd most
    > progressive town in the state with Shreveport.

    Making it the 12,125th most progressive town in the USA ;-)

    > But here, they got the schools to finally desegreget after 34 years in
    > the courts, SOuthern University is still going strong (but they just
    > elected a white class president), and the town is largely segregated,
    > although the races are on very good terms here.

    what a relief... (er, ugh huh)

    >
    > However, although segregation is not legal, you can go on fo rhours
    > about institutional segregation/racism here. Most of it is
    > educational/economic.

    > THis is a very complex subject, and I'll go into it if anyone wants me
    > to.
    >
    > HOwever, if you get into cajun country, pockets of the 'old ways'
    > still exist...
    >
    > For example, in Plaquemine Parish courthouse (we have Parishes
    > instead of counties, as we still operate under Napoleonic code), there
    > is still a segregated water fountain.

    states rights at work, yep.

    >
    > The biggest rift here is really cultural, more than anything. For
    > this reason, the blacks and whites largely self-segregate. I find
    > this happening at the movie lines (saw it last week), and my wife did
    > a poetry slam, and the sides of the audience divided very neatly.
    > It's just weird.

    sounds incredibly bizarre.

    I know that Patrick is from Ohio (as am i). And for all it's
    conservatism, segregation, and prejudice the north USA is simply
    centuries ahead of the south when it comes to racial relations. My
    father and his wife are hillbillies, straight-up hillbillies without
    exaggeration. (Actually, my father married into the hillbillies, my
    step-mother's family is from West Virginia and as an adolescent we
    visited the family in West Virginia. They lived in the hills with no
    plumbing on 'roads' that you needed a 4x4 to safely traverse.)

    Anyway, rural, conservative midwesterners are my family, yet I still
    remember as a child my step-mother proudly pointing out a large house
    in her small town which was a way-station on the underground railroad.
    I'm sure one would have a hard time finding a white person in the south
    USA with the same sort of pride.

    --
    <t.whid>
    www.mteww.com
    </t.whid>
  • D. Jean Hester | Sat May 3rd 2003 1:36 a.m.
    t.whid--

    I have no desire to be an apologist for "the south" and have absolutely no
    illusions about racial harmony and equality in the southern states. I am
    from Georgia, but left after high school for a variety of reasons -- amongst
    them was the fact that a person like me could get no peace from the
    religious fundamentalists in my hometown. I was persecuted nearly every day
    of high school for not being "born again". It was not a tolerant place to
    grow up, so I left.

    But you really believe the north is centuries ahead of the south in terms of
    racial relations? Then explain why the worst race riots during the civil
    rights movement happened in Newark NJ and Detroit? Last I checked, both
    those are north of the Mason-Dixon line. And what about the race riots in
    Los Angeles in 1965 and 1992? Racial tension is not just in the south.

    Many people in the south - and also in other places as well -- have some
    really fucked up ideas about race which need to be addressed. But racism is
    *everywhere*. It is in every community in this country, and in every nation
    on this earth. People seem to have some need to point to someone unlike
    themselves (whether that be race, religion, gender, registered political
    affiliation, what side of the creek you live on) and make that "unlike"
    group into a scapegoat for whatever ails them.

    I find that people from "enlightened" areas like to point to the sins of the
    south, and act as if their own "enlightened" communities are pristine
    examples of happy people living as one. Why is that? Why do people insist
    on scolding the south and yet feel no need to scold their own states and
    communities?

    And t.whid, why, oh why, do you make this statement -- "Anyway, rural,
    conservative midwesterners are my family, yet I still remember as a child my
    step-mother proudly pointing out a large house in her small town which was a
    way-station on the underground railroad. I'm sure one would have a hard time
    finding a white person in the south USA with the same sort of pride." --
    Your statement paints every southern white person with a stereotype that
    does not speak well of you. I have read many of your posts, and have found
    much of what you say well thought out, intelligent, and fair. So why do you
    not place that same level of fairness in your statements about white people
    in the south? Because the south has an appalling history of racial
    inequality it is therefore ok to stereotype white southerners? I don't
    think so.

    Racism needs to be dealt with and eliminated, whether north or south of the
    Mason-Dixon. Perhaps a good way to start is to examine ourselves, and our
    communities, wherever they are, and acknowledge how far we all still have to
    go, and how much more work still needs to be done.

    -- D. Jean Hester
    www.divestudio.org
    Interviewer: "Must an artist be a programmer to make truly original online
    art?"
    John Simon: "Truly original? You Modernist! Whether you make art or not,
    understanding programming is an amazing understanding."
    from "Code as Creative Writing: An Interview with John Simon"

    >From: "t.whid" <twhid@mteww.com>
    >Reply-To: "t.whid" <twhid@mteww.com>
    >To: list@rhizome.org
    >CC: list@rhizome.org
    >Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: rent-a-negro.com
    >Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 21:01:54 -0400
    >
    >
    >I know that Patrick is from Ohio (as am i). And for all it's conservatism,
    >segregation, and prejudice the north USA is simply centuries ahead of the
    >south when it comes to racial relations. My father and his wife are
    >hillbillies, straight-up hillbillies without exaggeration. (Actually, my
    >father married into the hillbillies, my step-mother's family is from West
    >Virginia and as an adolescent we visited the family in West Virginia. They
    >lived in the hills with no plumbing on 'roads' that you needed a 4x4 to
    >safely traverse.)
    >
    >.
    >
    >--
    ><t.whid>
    >www.mteww.com
    ></t.whid>
    >
    >+ ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
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    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

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  • MTAA | Sat May 3rd 2003 11 a.m.
    Yes, I have my own prejudices to address. But (here comes the bigot's
    justification) some of my best friends are white southerners, like Cary
    Peppermint, a native Georgian.

    And I understood when I was writing this post that I was flaunting
    these prejudices and taking part, in a way, in the same behavior I'm
    criticizing.

    I'd rather err on the side of calling a bigot a bigot when I see one.
    Of course not everyone in the south is an ignorant, racist redneck, but
    there are many and the culture in the south lets them carry on without
    feeling their ignorance ('we treat our black folks good'). In the north
    there are many ignorant, racist rednecks too (as I know very well) but
    generally one knows if they feel this way it's best to keep it hidden
    as the over-riding culture doesn't support it. But in the north it
    seems to be more an issue of economics, not race. In the south it's
    still all about race.

    The people in Georgia should be appalled at what's happening in one of
    their counties, the state politicians should be holding press
    conferences condemning the actions of these bigoted students. are they?
    I haven't heard, perhaps it's only an issue in the state. Where's Al
    Sharpton when you need him ;-)

    Thanks for your post. I shouldn't condemn all white southerners, what I
    mean to condemn is the culture of racial division that continues in the
    south USA which doesn't exist (as blatantly) in the north USA. My
    argument is that ALL southerners are complicit in this culture of
    racial division with the bulk of the blame going to the dominant white
    culture with it's history of racial oppression.

    On Saturday, May 3, 2003, at 12:36 AM, D. Jean Hester wrote:

    > t.whid--
    > And t.whid, why, oh why, do you make this statement -- "Anyway, rural,
    > conservative midwesterners are my family, yet I still remember as a
    > child my step-mother proudly pointing out a large house in her small
    > town which was a way-station on the underground railroad. I'm sure one
    > would have a hard time finding a white person in the south USA with
    > the same sort of pride." -- Your statement paints every southern white
    > person with a stereotype that does not speak well of you. I have read
    > many of your posts, and have found much of what you say well thought
    > out, intelligent, and fair. So why do you not place that same level
    > of fairness in your statements about white people in the south?
    > Because the south has an appalling history of racial inequality it is
    > therefore ok to stereotype white southerners? I don't think so.
    --
    <t.whid>
    www.mteww.com
    </t.whid>
  • ruth catlow | Sat May 3rd 2003 11:25 a.m.
    Hi T.Whid

    We really enjoyed meeting you at the Jodi opening last week at Eyebeam. It was
    fantastic to meet so many open, friendly people, ready to share ideas as well
    have a laugh. We could have done with another week of it.

    However your comments about superior racial relations in the Northern States
    puzzled me. The Eyebeam opening was certainly no model for racial integration.
    Recall the photos from the previous Rhizome party. We also went along to the NY
    Digital Salon symposium, I think that there was one black speaker or perhaps I'm
    just colour blind. By far the majority of Black, Porta Rican and Mexican people
    that we met in New York were working in the lower paid jobs, which is a kind of
    oppression and segregation.

    We did meet Joseph and Donna McElroy on our last day. They are building up to
    some pretty radical projects (in the sense that they straddle the traditional,
    institutional and academic, art, technological and corporate models) working in
    the Bronx to facilitate the local communities in the creation of their own
    leisure and arts industries. The idea is that the communities' leisure and
    entertainment dollars are fed back into their own communities rather than to the
    shareholders of big games and entertainment companies. I think I've got this
    right...

    waddya think?

    respect

    ruth catlow

    www.furtherfield.org

    "D. Jean Hester" wrote:

    > t.whid--
    >
    > I have no desire to be an apologist for "the south" and have absolutely no
    > illusions about racial harmony and equality in the southern states. I am
    > from Georgia, but left after high school for a variety of reasons -- amongst
    > them was the fact that a person like me could get no peace from the
    > religious fundamentalists in my hometown. I was persecuted nearly every day
    > of high school for not being "born again". It was not a tolerant place to
    > grow up, so I left.
    >
    > But you really believe the north is centuries ahead of the south in terms of
    > racial relations? Then explain why the worst race riots during the civil
    > rights movement happened in Newark NJ and Detroit? Last I checked, both
    > those are north of the Mason-Dixon line. And what about the race riots in
    > Los Angeles in 1965 and 1992? Racial tension is not just in the south.
    >
    > Many people in the south - and also in other places as well -- have some
    > really fucked up ideas about race which need to be addressed. But racism is
    > *everywhere*. It is in every community in this country, and in every nation
    > on this earth. People seem to have some need to point to someone unlike
    > themselves (whether that be race, religion, gender, registered political
    > affiliation, what side of the creek you live on) and make that "unlike"
    > group into a scapegoat for whatever ails them.
    >
    > I find that people from "enlightened" areas like to point to the sins of the
    > south, and act as if their own "enlightened" communities are pristine
    > examples of happy people living as one. Why is that? Why do people insist
    > on scolding the south and yet feel no need to scold their own states and
    > communities?
    >
    > And t.whid, why, oh why, do you make this statement -- "Anyway, rural,
    > conservative midwesterners are my family, yet I still remember as a child my
    > step-mother proudly pointing out a large house in her small town which was a
    > way-station on the underground railroad. I'm sure one would have a hard time
    > finding a white person in the south USA with the same sort of pride." --
    > Your statement paints every southern white person with a stereotype that
    > does not speak well of you. I have read many of your posts, and have found
    > much of what you say well thought out, intelligent, and fair. So why do you
    > not place that same level of fairness in your statements about white people
    > in the south? Because the south has an appalling history of racial
    > inequality it is therefore ok to stereotype white southerners? I don't
    > think so.
    >
    > Racism needs to be dealt with and eliminated, whether north or south of the
    > Mason-Dixon. Perhaps a good way to start is to examine ourselves, and our
    > communities, wherever they are, and acknowledge how far we all still have to
    > go, and how much more work still needs to be done.
    >
    > -- D. Jean Hester
    > www.divestudio.org
    > Interviewer: "Must an artist be a programmer to make truly original online
    > art?"
    > John Simon: "Truly original? You Modernist! Whether you make art or not,
    > understanding programming is an amazing understanding."
    > from "Code as Creative Writing: An Interview with John Simon"
    >
    > >From: "t.whid" <twhid@mteww.com>
    > >Reply-To: "t.whid" <twhid@mteww.com>
    > >To: list@rhizome.org
    > >CC: list@rhizome.org
    > >Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: rent-a-negro.com
    > >Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 21:01:54 -0400
    > >
    > >
    > >I know that Patrick is from Ohio (as am i). And for all it's conservatism,
    > >segregation, and prejudice the north USA is simply centuries ahead of the
    > >south when it comes to racial relations. My father and his wife are
    > >hillbillies, straight-up hillbillies without exaggeration. (Actually, my
    > >father married into the hillbillies, my step-mother's family is from West
    > >Virginia and as an adolescent we visited the family in West Virginia. They
    > >lived in the hills with no plumbing on 'roads' that you needed a 4x4 to
    > >safely traverse.)
    > >
    > >.
    > >
    > >--
    > ><t.whid>
    > >www.mteww.com
    > ></t.whid>
    > >
    > >+ ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
    > >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    > >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > >+
    > >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
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  • Vincent Wright | Sat May 3rd 2003 11:41 a.m.
    I won't invest a lot of time on this particular topic, but I must say, from
    my experience, racism and prejudice know no boundaries. (Nor do they tell
    time that well.)
    I was born in the South, was educated there, and have recruited many
    talented, brilliant, well-rounded people from there since leaving years ago.
    But, the worse cases of racist, ignorant, redneck thinking I've ever seen or
    heard of occur right in gleaming, beautifully camouflaged, corporate America
    and in here the Northern state in which I currently live.
    Racism, whether blatant or not, sucks. And it sucks power, not just out of
    blacks and other minorities, but out of the country.
    And again, though I won't invest a lot of time on this subject, I do have a
    question for t.whid: Your earlier message seems to suggest that subtle
    racism is more palatable, more digestible for those being subjected to it.
    So, in your opinion, is blatant racism supposed to be easier to deal with
    for the people who're being subjected to it?
    -Vincent

    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-list@rhizome.org [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org]On Behalf Of
    t.whid
    Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 9:59 AM
    To: list@rhizome.org
    Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: rent-a-negro.com

    Yes, I have my own prejudices to address. But (here comes the bigot's
    justification) some of my best friends are white southerners, like Cary
    Peppermint, a native Georgian.

    And I understood when I was writing this post that I was flaunting
    these prejudices and taking part, in a way, in the same behavior I'm
    criticizing.

    I'd rather err on the side of calling a bigot a bigot when I see one.
    Of course not everyone in the south is an ignorant, racist redneck, but
    there are many and the culture in the south lets them carry on without
    feeling their ignorance ('we treat our black folks good'). In the north
    there are many ignorant, racist rednecks too (as I know very well) but
    generally one knows if they feel this way it's best to keep it hidden
    as the over-riding culture doesn't support it. But in the north it
    seems to be more an issue of economics, not race. In the south it's
    still all about race.

    The people in Georgia should be appalled at what's happening in one of
    their counties, the state politicians should be holding press
    conferences condemning the actions of these bigoted students. are they?
    I haven't heard, perhaps it's only an issue in the state. Where's Al
    Sharpton when you need him ;-)

    Thanks for your post. I shouldn't condemn all white southerners, what I
    mean to condemn is the culture of racial division that continues in the
    south USA which doesn't exist (as blatantly) in the north USA. My
    argument is that ALL southerners are complicit in this culture of
    racial division with the bulk of the blame going to the dominant white
    culture with it's history of racial oppression.

    On Saturday, May 3, 2003, at 12:36 AM, D. Jean Hester wrote:

    > t.whid--
    > And t.whid, why, oh why, do you make this statement -- "Anyway, rural,
    > conservative midwesterners are my family, yet I still remember as a
    > child my step-mother proudly pointing out a large house in her small
    > town which was a way-station on the underground railroad. I'm sure one
    > would have a hard time finding a white person in the south USA with
    > the same sort of pride." -- Your statement paints every southern white
    > person with a stereotype that does not speak well of you. I have read
    > many of your posts, and have found much of what you say well thought
    > out, intelligent, and fair. So why do you not place that same level
    > of fairness in your statements about white people in the south?
    > Because the south has an appalling history of racial inequality it is
    > therefore ok to stereotype white southerners? I don't think so.
    --
    <t.whid>
    www.mteww.com
    </t.whid>

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  • patrick lichty | Sat May 3rd 2003 5:37 p.m.
    Wow, this is a really interesting little chord we've caught upon.

    I have an interesting position, primarily as an Ohioan in the Deep South
    (who is going to be so for at least three to sixty more years), and as an
    active member within the African-American community (now, THAT'S an
    interesting story), I have a lot of reflections on racism. And to tell you
    the truth, I've gotten the reverse end on it.

    First things first.

    Racism is all over. Sure. For example, an old hacker buddy of mine used
    to run the Confederate BBS in Canton, OH, and my Great Uncle was Klan. I
    mean, hardcore KKK. A buddy of mine in high school fancied himself as a
    'redneck country boy rebel' with pride. And this was around Canton and New
    Phila. Ohio. Some of the most racist garbage that I ever had to put up
    with was when I was dating an Af-Am woman in NE Ohio. You would not
    believe the fried chicken jokes I got, and I have a couple scarred knuckles
    from it. Primarily why we decided not to really pursue it.

    However, I can't say that racism is homogenous in its mode. In addition,
    in the community I'm part of has much of its boundaries in cultural
    terms. The Af-Am culture here is so different from the White, and to be
    perfectly honest, I really prefer it to the propriety to the White
    culture. And note that I'm not talking about people- I'm talking about
    cultures. Everyone's different, and some are more accepting than
    others. I know, as I got more than a few goofy looks at church, and one
    guest minister asked me what church I attended, as it was obvious that I
    had to come from a 'white' one. In addition, one of the leaders of the
    congregation said about places to live, etc. "Well, you know what I mean.
    You're white- you've got money,,,". Another person mentioned that we
    seemed to be adapting so well.

    To what?

    (on the church thing, I was raised Unitarian and still consider myself a
    practicing one, but we found a black Methodist church [my wife's
    denomination] that was full of such wonderful people... more for context
    than anything.)

    So, my argument here is that I posit that racism is as heterogenous as the
    people involved, although there are some problems like the post-war FHA
    zoning that caused many problems where institutional racism has caused some
    metastructures, but I digress. To say that racism is racism is to
    overlook a lot of differences that I don't think people consider, such as
    region, historical practices, and the overarching matrix of institutional
    practices (governmental and private sector) that create the problems we
    have today.

    As an aside, one of the crazy things is to spend time with some of my
    friends and having one drone on about getting watermelon when we go to the
    beach. I gave him a look, and he shot back with a really wry smile, "Hey! I
    happen to really LIKE watermelon! I like fried chicken too! Sometimes we
    actually eat this stuff..." There's a real awareness and good-humored
    nature to all this that's really healthy, at least with the people I know.

    It's just the mode. It's all over. There's a long way to go, and that's
    part of what I'm trying to do.

    But on to the new media thing.

    SUre, new media is a genre of privilege, but then high art is very, very
    privileged. I mean, even many of the 'border crossers' like Fusco, were
    born to privilege, and tend to throw their stones deep from within the
    white hegemonic order while claiming their street cred. I have no problem
    with this, but lets not conflate terms and be honest (I won't use the
    obvious metaphor here). There are a few who I think deserve street cred,
    but they are far and few between. Period.

    The question is to how we can get more minority groups (and I might even
    venture to say cultures) involved? There are some incredible
    socio.economic/cultural barriers up, hell, even gender... (However, there
    are a lot of women in new media, but most of them are euro/asian, and
    that's even another sterotype). That's one reason why I love Mongrel,
    people like Paul Vanouse's new media works on racial genetics and so on.

    So, I ask, how do we address these problems? Is new media hopelessly
    inbred, inscribed by cultural boundaries, or what? Can we make the
    boundaries more porous? How?
  • Eryk Salvaggio | Sun May 4th 2003 2:17 a.m.
    What is this racism thing you guys keep talking about? I know for a fact we
    don't have it in Maine or New Hampshire. We can't.

    It's my birthday today.

    -e.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Patrick Lichty" <voyd@voyd.com>
    To: <list@rhizome.org>
    Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 4:39 PM
    Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: rent-a-negro.com

    > Wow, this is a really interesting little chord we've caught upon.
    >
    > I have an interesting position, primarily as an Ohioan in the Deep South
    > (who is going to be so for at least three to sixty more years), and as an
    > active member within the African-American community (now, THAT'S an
    > interesting story), I have a lot of reflections on racism. And to tell
    you
    > the truth, I've gotten the reverse end on it.
    >
    > First things first.
    >
    > Racism is all over. Sure. For example, an old hacker buddy of mine used
    > to run the Confederate BBS in Canton, OH, and my Great Uncle was Klan. I
    > mean, hardcore KKK. A buddy of mine in high school fancied himself as a
    > 'redneck country boy rebel' with pride. And this was around Canton and New
    > Phila. Ohio. Some of the most racist garbage that I ever had to put up
    > with was when I was dating an Af-Am woman in NE Ohio. You would not
    > believe the fried chicken jokes I got, and I have a couple scarred
    knuckles
    > from it. Primarily why we decided not to really pursue it.
    >
    > However, I can't say that racism is homogenous in its mode. In addition,
    > in the community I'm part of has much of its boundaries in cultural
    > terms. The Af-Am culture here is so different from the White, and to be
    > perfectly honest, I really prefer it to the propriety to the White
    > culture. And note that I'm not talking about people- I'm talking about
    > cultures. Everyone's different, and some are more accepting than
    > others. I know, as I got more than a few goofy looks at church, and one
    > guest minister asked me what church I attended, as it was obvious that I
    > had to come from a 'white' one. In addition, one of the leaders of the
    > congregation said about places to live, etc. "Well, you know what I mean.
    > You're white- you've got money,,,". Another person mentioned that we
    > seemed to be adapting so well.
    >
    > To what?
    >
    > (on the church thing, I was raised Unitarian and still consider myself a
    > practicing one, but we found a black Methodist church [my wife's
    > denomination] that was full of such wonderful people... more for context
    > than anything.)
    >
    > So, my argument here is that I posit that racism is as heterogenous as the
    > people involved, although there are some problems like the post-war FHA
    > zoning that caused many problems where institutional racism has caused
    some
    > metastructures, but I digress. To say that racism is racism is to
    > overlook a lot of differences that I don't think people consider, such as
    > region, historical practices, and the overarching matrix of institutional
    > practices (governmental and private sector) that create the problems we
    > have today.
    >
    > As an aside, one of the crazy things is to spend time with some of my
    > friends and having one drone on about getting watermelon when we go to the
    > beach. I gave him a look, and he shot back with a really wry smile, "Hey!
    I
    > happen to really LIKE watermelon! I like fried chicken too! Sometimes we
    > actually eat this stuff..." There's a real awareness and good-humored
    > nature to all this that's really healthy, at least with the people I know.
    >
    > It's just the mode. It's all over. There's a long way to go, and that's
    > part of what I'm trying to do.
    >
    > But on to the new media thing.
    >
    > SUre, new media is a genre of privilege, but then high art is very, very
    > privileged. I mean, even many of the 'border crossers' like Fusco, were
    > born to privilege, and tend to throw their stones deep from within the
    > white hegemonic order while claiming their street cred. I have no problem
    > with this, but lets not conflate terms and be honest (I won't use the
    > obvious metaphor here). There are a few who I think deserve street cred,
    > but they are far and few between. Period.
    >
    > The question is to how we can get more minority groups (and I might even
    > venture to say cultures) involved? There are some incredible
    > socio.economic/cultural barriers up, hell, even gender... (However, there
    > are a lot of women in new media, but most of them are euro/asian, and
    > that's even another sterotype). That's one reason why I love Mongrel,
    > people like Paul Vanouse's new media works on racial genetics and so on.
    >
    > So, I ask, how do we address these problems? Is new media hopelessly
    > inbred, inscribed by cultural boundaries, or what? Can we make the
    > boundaries more porous? How?
    >
    >
    > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
  • ryan griffis | Mon May 5th 2003 1:36 p.m.
    (happy birthday to eryk!)

    > > So, I ask, how do we address these problems? Is new media
    > hopelessly
    > > inbred, inscribed by cultural boundaries, or what? Can we make the
    > > boundaries more porous? How?

    what about the work of groups like OnRamp Arts, KAOS and others that function through educational and performative structures using new media?
    i know one can point to the issue of exploitation as some do for Tim Rollins' KOS project, but at least with OnRamp and KAOS, the "artists" fade into the background while the work and those making it become the focus. i'm sure there are things that need criticism here, as everything does and should, but do these offer anything for anyone?
    could organizational tactics be useful?
    best,
    ryan
  • Ivan Pope | Mon May 5th 2003 6:49 p.m.
    Do you think we could change the subject line now, please?
    --
    Ivan Pope
    ivan@ivanpope.com

    http://www.ivanpope.com
    http://www.tochki-inc.com

    "Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death"
    Hunter S. Thompson

    > From: ryan griffis <grifray@yahoo.com>
    > Reply-To: ryan griffis <grifray@yahoo.com>
    > Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 12:36:09 -0400
    > To: list@rhizome.org
    > Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: rent-a-negro.com
    >
    > (happy birthday to eryk!)
    >
    >>> So, I ask, how do we address these problems? Is new media
    >> hopelessly
    >>> inbred, inscribed by cultural boundaries, or what? Can we make the
    >>> boundaries more porous? How?
    >
    > what about the work of groups like OnRamp Arts, KAOS and others that function
    > through educational and performative structures using new media?
    > i know one can point to the issue of exploitation as some do for Tim Rollins'
    > KOS project, but at least with OnRamp and KAOS, the "artists" fade into the
    > background while the work and those making it become the focus. i'm sure there
    > are things that need criticism here, as everything does and should, but do
    > these offer anything for anyone?
    > could organizational tactics be useful?
    > best,
    > ryan
    > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
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