f*ck Bush

Posted by MTAA | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 9:40 a.m.

fuck Bush!

You Bush voters, your american citizenship is officially revoked for
not identifying and dismissing the creeping authoritarianism that is
the GWB administration. If it's not obvious enough now, over the next
four years it will become abundantly clear how big a mistake you have
made. Hopefully we'll still have democratic institutions in place at
that point so we'll be able to correct it.

===
<twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
===
  • Pall Thayer | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 9:56 a.m.
    I hear the Bush plans to abolish democracy later this evening. Rumor has
    it he also plans to declare the USA a separate planet.

    On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, t.whid wrote:

    > fuck Bush!
    >
    > You Bush voters, your american citizenship is officially revoked for
    > not identifying and dismissing the creeping authoritarianism that is
    > the GWB administration. If it's not obvious enough now, over the next
    > four years it will become abundantly clear how big a mistake you have
    > made. Hopefully we'll still have democratic institutions in place at
    > that point so we'll be able to correct it.
    >
    >
    >
    > ===
    > <twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
    > ===
    >
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >

    --
    Pall Thayer
    artist/teacher
    http://www.this.is/pallit
    http://130.208.220.190/
    http://130.208.220.190/nuharm
    http://130.208.220.190/panse
  • MTAA | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 10:31 a.m.
    Not sure how to read you're reply...

    You think it's alarmist of me to talk of creeping authoritarianism?

    I hope yer right, but the signs are not good: abu gahraib, guantanamo,
    'enemy combatants', orwellian doubletalk, the most secretive US gov't
    ever, etc, etc, etc

    On Nov 3, 2004, at 12:36 PM, Pall Thayer wrote:

    > I hear the Bush plans to abolish democracy later this evening. Rumor
    > has
    > it he also plans to declare the USA a separate planet.
    >
    >
    > On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, t.whid wrote:
    >
    >> fuck Bush!
    >>
    >> You Bush voters, your american citizenship is officially revoked for
    >> not identifying and dismissing the creeping authoritarianism that is
    >> the GWB administration. If it's not obvious enough now, over the next
    >> four years it will become abundantly clear how big a mistake you have
    >> made. Hopefully we'll still have democratic institutions in place at
    >> that point so we'll be able to correct it.
    >>

    ===
    <twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
    ===
  • Ivan Pope | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 10:45 a.m.
    Well, I feel sick, have done all day. Last night I went to bed thinking
    Kerry was going to do it.
    Woke up at 6am and snuck down to put the telly on. Went into slump.
    Haven't been to the US since Bush was elected and don't think I'll
    bother now.
    I wish I felt safer, but I don't.
    Enjoy.
    Ivan

    t.whid wrote:

    > fuck Bush!
    >
    > You Bush voters, your american citizenship is officially revoked for
    > not identifying and dismissing the creeping authoritarianism that is
    > the GWB administration. If it's not obvious enough now, over the next
    > four years it will become abundantly clear how big a mistake you have
    > made. Hopefully we'll still have democratic institutions in place at
    > that point so we'll be able to correct it.
    >
    >
    >
    > ===
    > <twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
    > ===
    >
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
  • Lee Wells | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 11 a.m.
    I guess the conversation is what to do now and in the near future if the
    American public wants more of this horror show and we have to put up with 4
    more years. Will the arts continue to stay as active as they have been in
    the past months or will everyone just crawl under a rock and hide? For as
    much as I had hoped to take some time to paint landscapes and flowers looks
    like culture needs all of us to continue not only critique politics but to
    take an active roll in them. The art world must no longer think it stands
    outside of the real world. How can art touch the people in a way that the
    current high art world has left behind for Elmer J. Fudd.

    Interested to see what opinions are out there.

    Cheers,
    Lee

    On 11/3/04 12:36 PM, "Pall Thayer" <palli@pallit.lhi.is> wrote:

    > I hear the Bush plans to abolish democracy later this evening. Rumor has
    > it he also plans to declare the USA a separate planet.
    >
    >
    > On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, t.whid wrote:
    >
    >> fuck Bush!
    >>
    >> You Bush voters, your american citizenship is officially revoked for
    >> not identifying and dismissing the creeping authoritarianism that is
    >> the GWB administration. If it's not obvious enough now, over the next
    >> four years it will become abundantly clear how big a mistake you have
    >> made. Hopefully we'll still have democratic institutions in place at
    >> that point so we'll be able to correct it.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> ===
    >> <twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
    >> ===
    >>
    >>
    >> +
    >> -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
    >> +
    >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>
  • Plasma Studii | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 11:07 a.m.
    >fuck Bush!
    >
    >You Bush voters, your american citizenship is officially revoked for
    >not identifying and dismissing the creeping authoritarianism that is
    >the GWB administration. If it's not obvious enough now, over the
    >next four years it will become abundantly clear how big a mistake
    >you have made. Hopefully we'll still have democratic institutions in
    >place at that point so we'll be able to correct it.

    it's too corrupt.

    with the senate and house and supreme court all homogenized, it's
    looking like there just is no longer a democracy. that people chose
    a dictatorship (meant in the most literal sense and not to sound
    bombastic). the people voted to not be heard and not to have anyone
    answer for what they do. seems unbelievably dumb but that's always
    was an option. astounding that even half of the population could
    want that.

    it's "obvious enough", but apparently people are just too easily
    distracted. this was a drama queen race and all that republican
    frothing at the mouth seemed to pay off. they said nothing and
    looked furious saying it. you could watch a soldier get blown up,
    then ed gillespie say "Absolutely no soldiers have ever been
    attacked!!!!" and people just said "okie doke. now, what else should
    we talk about?". this isn't a political thing, it's a huge
    psychological eye-opener.

    i am optimistic that in time the US will heal itself, and again seems
    likely will improve on democracy. but for now the US and democracy
    have been destroyed. the US is folklore. if terrorists wanted to
    destroy this country, they are too late, the people already dealt the
    fatal blow.
  • Lee Wells | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 11:09 a.m.
    Lets get ready to rumble!!!

    On 11/3/04 12:28 PM, "t.whid" <twhid@twhid.com> wrote:

    > Not sure how to read you're reply...
    >
    > You think it's alarmist of me to talk of creeping authoritarianism?
    >
    > I hope yer right, but the signs are not good: abu gahraib, guantanamo,
    > 'enemy combatants', orwellian doubletalk, the most secretive US gov't
    > ever, etc, etc, etc
    >
    > On Nov 3, 2004, at 12:36 PM, Pall Thayer wrote:
    >
    >> I hear the Bush plans to abolish democracy later this evening. Rumor
    >> has
    >> it he also plans to declare the USA a separate planet.
    >>
    >>
    >> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, t.whid wrote:
    >>
    >>> fuck Bush!
    >>>
    >>> You Bush voters, your american citizenship is officially revoked for
    >>> not identifying and dismissing the creeping authoritarianism that is
    >>> the GWB administration. If it
  • Ivan Pope | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 11:13 a.m.
    Pall Thayer wrote:

    >I hear the Bush plans to abolish democracy later this evening. Rumor has
    >it he also plans to declare the USA a separate planet.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Hey, lets not get silly. The USA has always been a separate planet.
    There's nothing Bush can do about that.
    I vote from now on we always write his name bUSH.
    Cheers,
    Ivan
  • joy garnett | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 11:23 a.m.
    hmmm.

    let it bring them down--let them burn, because I don't see it getting any
    better by any standards (talkin' the war as much as the economy here).
    what a mess they've made; sure it would have been better in so many ways
    had kerry won, certainly in terms of rebuilding foreign policy... but I
    I just don't see the strategy of denial and secrecy working for much
    longer in their favor. in a way, it's ironic that they won the election
    because who would want to be saddled with the horror of this mess...

    also: there was so little chance of changing horses in mid war, the fact
    that they only won by 2 electoral votes is about as close to a vote of no
    confidence as you can get.

    looking ahead now: it was never just about this election. among other
    things it's about the Dems rebuilding a party that's not just some midd;e
    of the road excuse.

    j
  • joy garnett | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 11:26 a.m.
    I had a dream I had moved indefinitely to Iceland--seriously, anyone ever=

    done the artists residency thing there?

    J

    On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Lee Wells wrote:

    > I guess the conversation is what to do now and in the near future if the
    > American public wants more of this horror show and we have to put up with=
    4
    > more years. Will the arts continue to stay as active as they have been in
    > the past months or will everyone just crawl under a rock and hide? For as
    > much as I had hoped to take some time to paint landscapes and flowers loo=
    ks
    > like culture needs all of us to continue not only critique politics but to
    > take an active roll in them. The art world must no longer think it stands
    > outside of the real world. How can art touch the people in a way that the
    > current high art world has left behind for Elmer J. Fudd.
    >
    > Interested to see what opinions are out there.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Lee
    >
    > On 11/3/04 12:36 PM, "Pall Thayer" <palli@pallit.lhi.is> wrote:
    >
    >> I hear the Bush plans to abolish democracy later this evening. Rumor has
    >> it he also plans to declare the USA a separate planet.
    >>
    >>
    >> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, t.whid wrote:
    >>
    >>> fuck Bush!
    >>>
    >>> You Bush voters, your american citizenship is officially revoked for
    >>> not identifying and dismissing the creeping authoritarianism that is
    >>> the GWB administration. If it's not obvious enough now, over the next
    >>> four years it will become abundantly clear how big a mistake you have
    >>> made. Hopefully we'll still have democratic institutions in place at
    >>> that point so we'll be able to correct it.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> ===
    >>> <twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
    >>> ===
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> +
    >>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
    >>> +
    >>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>>
    >
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >
  • andrew baron | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 11:38 a.m.
    *FUCK bUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    vive www.bushnetwor.com
    *
  • Rob Myers | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 11:43 a.m.
    On 3 Nov 2004, at 18:23, Joy Garnett wrote:

    > among other things it's about the Dems rebuilding a party that's not
    > just some midd;e of the road excuse.

    Yes.

    ffs don't let them do the New Labour thing of going Conservative rather
    than coming up with a compelling critique and alternative.

    - Rob.
  • Kanarinka | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 12:02 p.m.
    I have never been more scared of the future.

    ---------
    Winning on fear itself, the GOP is ready to take the country even farther
    right.

    - - - - - - - - - - - -
    By Sidney Blumenthal

    Nov. 3, 2004 | "This country is going so far to the right you are not even
    going to recognize it," remarked John Mitchell, President Nixon's attorney
    general, in 1970. Mitchell's prophesy became the mission of Nixon's College
    Republican president, Karl Rove, who implemented the strategy of
    authoritarian populism behind George W. Bush's victory.

    In the aftermath, Democrats will form their ritual circular firing squad of
    recriminations. But, finally, the loss was not due to their candidate's
    personality, the flaws of this or that advisor or the party's platform. The
    Democrats surprised themselves at their ability to raise tens of millions of
    dollars, inspire hundreds of thousands of activists, spawn extensive new
    organizations, attract icons of popular culture and present themselves as
    unified around a centrist position. Expectations were not dashed. Turnout
    vastly increased among African-Americans and Hispanics. More than 60 percent
    of the newly registered voters went for John Kerry. Those concerned about
    the economy voted overwhelmingly for him; so did those citing the war in
    Iraq as an issue. But the surge of the Democrats was more than matched.

    Using the White House as a machine of centripetal force, Rove spread fear
    and fused its elements. Fear of the besieging terrorist, appearing in Bush
    campaign TV ads as the shifty eyes of a swarthy man or a pack of wolves, was
    joined with fear of the besieging queer. Bush's announcement that he favored
    a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage was underscored by
    referendums against it in 11 states, including Ohio -- all of which won.

    The evangelical churches became instruments of political organization.
    Ideology was enforced as theology, turning nonconformity into sin, and the
    faithful, following voter guides with biblical literalism, were shepherded
    to the polls as though to the rapture. White Protestants, especially in the
    South, especially married men, gave their souls and votes for flag and
    cross.

    The campaign was one long camp meeting, a revival. Abortion and stem cell
    research became a lever for prying loose white Catholics. (Rove's designated
    Catholic leader, his own political pontiff, had to resign in disgrace after
    being exposed for sexual harassment, but this was little reported and had no
    effect.) To help in Florida, a referendum was put on the ballot to deny
    young women the right to abortion without parental approval, and it
    galvanized evangelicals and conservative Catholics alike.

    While Kerry ran on the mainstream American traditions of international
    cooperation and domestic investment, and transparency and rationality as
    essential to democratic government, Bush campaigned directly against these
    very ideas. At his rallies, Bush was introduced as standing for "the right
    God." During the closing weeks of the campaign, Bush and Cheney ridiculed
    internationalism, falsifying Kerry's statement about a "global test." They
    disdained Kerry's internationalism as effeminate, unpatriotic, a character
    flaw and elitist. "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig,"
    Vice President Cheney derided in every speech. They grafted imperial
    unilateralism onto provincial isolationism. Fear of the rest of the world
    was to be mastered with contempt for it.

    These emotions were linked to what is euphemistically called "moral values,"
    which is actually social and sexual panic over the rights of women and
    gender roles -- lipstick traces, indeed. Only imposing manly authority
    against "girlie men," girls and lurking terrorists can save the nation.
    Bush's TV ads featured digitally reproduced crowds of cheering soldiers,
    triumph of the leader through computer enhancement. Above all, the exit
    polls showed that "strong leader" was the primary reason Bush was supported.

    Brought along with Bush is a gallery of grotesques in the Senate -- more
    than one of the new senators advocating capital punishment for abortion,
    another urging that all gay teachers be fired, yet another revealed as
    suffering from obvious symptoms of Alzheimer's.

    The new majority is more theocratic than Republican, as Republican was
    previously understood; the defeat of the old moderate Republican Party is
    far more decisive than the loss by the Democrats. And there are no checks
    and balances. The terminal illness of Chief Justice William Rehnquist
    signals new appointments to the Supreme Court that will alter law for more
    than a generation. Conservative promises to dismantle constitutional law
    established since the New Deal will be acted upon. Roe vs. Wade will be
    overturned and abortion outlawed.

    Now, without constraints, Bush can pursue the dreams he campaigned for --
    the use of U.S. military might to bring God's gift of freedom to the world,
    with no more "global tests," and at home the enactment of the imperatives of
    "the right God." The international system of collective security forged in
    World War II and tempered in the Cold War is a thing of the past. The
    Democratic Party, despite its best efforts, has failed to rein in the
    radicalism sweeping the country. The world is in a state of emergency but
    also irrelevant. The New World, with all its power and might, stepping forth
    to the rescue and the liberation of the old? Goodbye to all that.

    - - - - - - - - - - - -

    About the writer
    Sidney Blumenthal, a former assistant and senior advisor to President
    Clinton and the author of "The Clinton Wars," is writing a column for Salon
    and the Guardian of London.
    On 11/3/04 1:38 PM, "andrew michael baron" <baron@parsons.edu> wrote:

    > FUCK bUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    > AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    > vive www.bushnetwor.com <http://www.bushnetwor.com>
    >
  • ben syverson | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 12:07 p.m.
    This is terrible on so many levels.

    First, to all those people who toiled hundreds of hours to get out the
    vote and get Bush out of office, it sends a clear message: "Don't
    fucking bother." Many of these people will disengage from the political
    process altogether. Many others will be radicalized by their anger.

    Also, even though we registered record numbers of young voters and
    produced a massive turnout, it still wasn't enough. That may mean that
    the young voters turned out to be far more conservative than they have
    been in the past. So fuck Bush AND young neocons.

    Bush himself has admitted that if he were elected, it would only be a
    couple years before he starts going "quack, quack." The dash for a
    successor will make Bush a lame duck president.

    Let the rioting and looting begin...

    - ben
  • Plasma Studii | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 12:09 p.m.
    >How can art touch the people in a way that the
    >current high art world has left behind for Elmer J. Fudd.
    >
    >Interested to see what opinions are out there.

    ha ha. the people chose elmer fudd over the nightly news. as
    palatable as one makes the info, a (apparently growing) number of
    folks will block it out. they want eye candy not mind benders.
    theory is just foul tasting medicine and seems most folks opt to stay
    sick. this election just seems a useful documentation for us that
    folks have a dwindling patience for processing.

    but what about eye candy with a message. it worked for the buddhists
    and early christians. folks who can't read, will avoid processing
    and be drawn to images, stories. something that appeals because it
    looks enticing, potentially fun. probably something like jon
    stewart's daily show is the way to get a mass audience. if that show
    seems pretty tame and reigned in, it may primarily be because it has
    to answer to the additional producers and networks' priorities.

    but what about including a message in something appealing, enjoyable?
    assume anything that relies on the conceptual, is going to be thrown
    out. whether you are for or against the concept, what good is it, if
    it is ignored? does the art need a context?

    screen savers are the way to get a message through to humans. art is
    a way to get a secret message to be exclusive to the art world.
    competition for amazing-ness could lead to the demise of south park
    and a new sesame street!
  • Jason Van Anden | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 1:02 p.m.
    I plan to stay and fight.

    On Saturday I flew to Ft. Lauderdale to help save the world. I volunteered with America Coming Together. As it turns out, 300 fellow New York volunteers - most of them first time activists like me - also arrived on Saturday at ACT. We worked our asses off from Sunday morning until election eve getting the vote out. We had an incredible impact on our community, and my only regret is that I did not start sooner.

    As far as I am concerned, our deadline to save the world has just been extended four more years.

    Roar!
    Jason Van Anden
  • joy garnett | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 1:32 p.m.
    Indeed! yay, bravo. amen.

    On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Jason Van Anden wrote:

    > I plan to stay and fight.
    >
    > On Saturday I flew to Ft. Lauderdale to help save the world. I volunteered with America Coming Together. As it turns out, 300 fellow New York volunteers - most of them first time activists like me - also arrived on Saturday at ACT. We worked our asses off from Sunday morning until election eve getting the vote out. We had an incredible impact on our community, and my only regret is that I did not start sooner.
    >
    > As far as I am concerned, our deadline to save the world has just been extended four more years.
    >
    > Roar!
    > Jason Van Anden
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
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    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >
  • ben syverson | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 1:48 p.m.
    On Nov 3, 2004, at 2:02 PM, Jason Van Anden wrote:

    > As far as I am concerned, our deadline to save the world has just been
    > extended four more years.

    What are you going to do? Move to Florida and convince people on a
    daily basis? What about Ohio?

    I'll be somewhat surprised and relieved if we get four more years. I
    would prepare for the very real possibility that at some point in the
    next couple of years, Pakistan, Iran and North Korea will drop a few
    nuclear bombs on some American cities and call it a day.

    Bombs over Baltimore...

    - ben
  • Pall Thayer | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 2:22 p.m.
    >> Not sure how to read you're reply...

    Well it wasn't exactly meant as critical commentary. It was a joke. But
    don't think I don't take this situation seriously. If I didn't, I
    wouldn't have stayed up till 4 in the morning to watch the live coverage
    despite having to get up at 7:30 in the morning and teaching till 6 in
    the evening. I'm totally devastated and really worried about what's
    going to happen. I'm so frustrated and I can't understand why on Earth
    anyone would willingly vote for Bush. Perhaps I'm not being completely
    fair. I think those of us living outside of the US have a very different
    perspective. I've lived in the US a couple of times and know that the
    American public isn't exactly being spoon-fed with news concerning the
    rest of the world. And then there was a seemingly small thing that
    really pissed me off (of course I was already in a bad mood so it didn't
    take much). In an article on cnn.com they mentioned a voter in Ohio. She
    was a 42 year old mother and coming out for the vote for the first time
    in her life. This was stated as if it was a wonderfull thing. Well, I'm
    sorry but it's everything but wonderfull. It's sad. In a country who's
    "leader" is trying to make the country out to be the big world-crusader
    for democracy (when it's convenient) that's pretty damn sad.

    So now we have all the European leaders sending Bush courteous messages
    extending their congratulations and expressing hopes that they will be
    able to repair some of the damage he did last term. In all his
    ignorance, I'm sure he'll misunderstand this completely and use it to
    feed his arrogance and make things even worse.

    Yes, the world is definitely a scary place today.

    Pall Thayer

    t.whid wrote:
    > Not sure how to read you're reply...
    >
    > You think it's alarmist of me to talk of creeping authoritarianism?
    >
    > I hope yer right, but the signs are not good: abu gahraib, guantanamo,
    > 'enemy combatants', orwellian doubletalk, the most secretive US gov't
    > ever, etc, etc, etc
    >
    > On Nov 3, 2004, at 12:36 PM, Pall Thayer wrote:
    >
    >> I hear the Bush plans to abolish democracy later this evening. Rumor has
    >> it he also plans to declare the USA a separate planet.
    >>
    >>
    >> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, t.whid wrote:
    >>
    >>> fuck Bush!
    >>>
    >>> You Bush voters, your american citizenship is officially revoked for
    >>> not identifying and dismissing the creeping authoritarianism that is
    >>> the GWB administration. If it's not obvious enough now, over the next
    >>> four years it will become abundantly clear how big a mistake you have
    >>> made. Hopefully we'll still have democratic institutions in place at
    >>> that point so we'll be able to correct it.
    >>>
    >
    > ===
    > <twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
    > ===
    >
    >
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >

    --
    \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
    Pall Thayer
    artist/teacher
    http://www.this.is/pallit
    http://pallit.lhi.is/panse
    \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
  • void void | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 3:53 p.m.
    resist!

    AE04
    atomicelroy.com
    CHAOS Studios
  • Jason Van Anden | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 5:16 p.m.
    Pall - thanks for the outlet!

    ben> What are you going to do? Move to Florida and convince people on a daily basis? What about Ohio?

    When I headed down to Florida I thought that I would be canvassing. While I was waiting for the driver to assemble canvasers, someone called out for anyone who was good with Microsoft Excel. I make my living designing and developing database visualization applications for Actuaries, so next thing I know, I am helping to organize the consolidation of data needed for the canvasing operation. The next day they asked me to stick around in case they had another software emergency. Over the three days, I ended up applying my day-job skillset in a number of projects to help drive the voter turnout. The thought that these skills would be helpful to such an operation never occured to me before.

    I think it is a waste of time and energy to attempt to align the values of the hard right with mine. I believe that I am going to need to fight for my values by forcing compromise with the right through asserting power. I still believe that more people share my values than those of the far right - it is just a matter of mobilization.

    Amazed by how my day-job skillset was applied to this end during this stint as a weekend activist has been enlightening. I beleieve that I am not the only one who was energized by this experience. As far as I am concerned, this election was my practice run.

    Jason Van Anden
  • joy garnett | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 6:01 p.m.
    Jason,

    I think you have it exatly right. You saw the direct correlation between
    your actions and the people you engaged -- we mustn't think of this as an
    enormous loss--that's a mistake. We did all these things, we actually
    scared the living fuck out of them, this the beginning--we must maximize,
    use the energy... after I knock back this scotch, I'm there, ready. Let's
    go.

    J

    On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Jason Van Anden wrote:

    > Pall - thanks for the outlet!
    >
    > ben> What are you going to do? Move to Florida and convince people on a daily basis? What about Ohio?
    >
    > When I headed down to Florida I thought that I would be canvassing. While I was waiting for the driver to assemble canvasers, someone called out for anyone who was good with Microsoft Excel. I make my living designing and developing database visualization applications for Actuaries, so next thing I know, I am helping to organize the consolidation of data needed for the canvasing operation. The next day they asked me to stick around in case they had another software emergency. Over the three days, I ended up applying my day-job skillset in a number of projects to help drive the voter turnout. The thought that these skills would be helpful to such an operation never occured to me before.
    >
    > I think it is a waste of time and energy to attempt to align the values of the hard right with mine. I believe that I am going to need to fight for my values by forcing compromise with the right through asserting power. I still believe that more people share my values than those of the far right - it is just a matter of mobilization.
    >
    > Amazed by how my day-job skillset was applied to this end during this stint as a weekend activist has been enlightening. I beleieve that I am not the only one who was energized by this experience. As far as I am concerned, this election was my practice run.
    >
    > Jason Van Anden
    > +
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    >
  • bob sweeny | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 6:15 p.m.
    shoots and runners, y'all. Isn't that what the rhizome is about?? Simultaneity? Multipicity? To get sucked into false binaries seems rather passe, no?

    I felt rather betrayed today, then shifted from sore loser mode to thinking that maybe winning wasn't the point... then I thought about No Child Left Behind, The USA PATRIOT Act, Rod Paige declaring the National Education Association 'a bunch of terrorists,' and went from betrayed to numb. What happens if collectivity isn't enough?

    In nature rhizomatic networks reroute constantly. What new patterns will 2/11 provoke?

    bob
  • ben syverson | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 6:38 p.m.
    On Nov 3, 2004, at 6:16 PM, Jason Van Anden wrote:

    > I still believe that more people share my values than those of the far
    > right - it is just a matter of mobilization.

    Don't fool yourself; turnout was extremely high, a gigantic number of
    people were mobilized, and they re-elected Bush.

    The people have spoken. America does not share our values.

    The question now is: why are we here? There are plenty of other
    countries with more sane morals and values. Fuck this SUV-ridden
    strip-mall haven.

    - ben
  • Jim Andrews | Wed Nov 3rd 2004 7:07 p.m.
    looks like that 'southern strategy' worked again. no gay marriage, no
    abortions, lots of church stuff in everything, including politics, etc etc.
    who cares about foreign policy and the war in iraq when hundreds of
    thousands of american lives are at stake in the abortion issue? i'm curious
    about the education offered where the 'southern strategy' pans out. of
    course even if emphasis on education were a priority, that takes a while to
    change a culture, doesn't it. creationism in the schools. amazing. in a
    country that put morons on the moon, offers the best of education in a few
    select places, prizes forthrightness in speech, has an amazing artistic
    history, and is often intellectually bold as brass. well all i can say is be
    bold and brassy and enlightened, you all. that's your fine history.

    picked up a great little newly-released book a couple of weeks ago from
    oxford u press called Fundamentalism. By Malise Ruthven. Not just about
    Islamic fundamentalism but also fundamentalism in the USA. A slim volume.
    Very thoughtfully written. That's where I'm starting.

    how would ralph nader do as the democratic nominee? does this compute in the
    usa? or is it just not a possib? must have a good liar no matter whether
    republican or democrat? president ralph? something tells me this is just not
    in the cards.

    how about Hillary? I like Ralph better but Hillary is pretty good.

    ja
  • David Goldschmidt | Thu Nov 4th 2004 2:31 a.m.
    OK Bob ... you're freaking me out. I was bypassing most of the doom
    sayers until I got to yours. Your words do sting with bitter truth but
    I still believe the world did not change on 2/11 (nor 9/11 for that
    matter). Humans have been dealing with the same issues for a thousand
    years. The struggle for peace, stability, economic prosperity are
    universal. And there is is still immense opportunity in this country.

    Americans (Republicans included), like all humans, are on the path to
    enlightenment. It just takes some a little longer to get there.

    I speak as a Buddhist and as the only Democrat in my family. I know who
    voted for Bush. My entire family voted him. And they are good people.

    To demonize the enemy is to become the enemy.

    david goldschmidt
    www.mediatrips.com

    bob sweeny wrote:

    >I felt rather betrayed today, then shifted from sore loser mode to thinking that maybe winning wasn't the point... then I thought about No Child Left Behind, The USA PATRIOT Act, Rod Paige declaring the National Education Association 'a bunch of terrorists,' and went from betrayed to numb. What happens if collectivity isn't enough?
    >
    >In nature rhizomatic networks reroute constantly. What new patterns will 2/11 provoke?
    >
    >bob
    >
    >
    >
  • Rob Myers | Thu Nov 4th 2004 2:45 a.m.
    On Thursday, November 04, 2004, at 09:42AM, David Goldschmidt <david@personify.tv> wrote:

    >To demonize the enemy is to become the enemy.

    How come this never turns conservatives into liberals? ;-/

    - Rob.
  • Roman Minaev | Thu Nov 4th 2004 2:50 a.m.
    Dear list,

    the new/old president won't let you perform sex with him.

    --
    Roman Minaev
    trashconnection.com
  • David Goldschmidt | Thu Nov 4th 2004 3:36 a.m.
    The people who voted for bUSH are not the enemy. They are my family.
    And bUSH is but an obstacle to a more liberal political future.

    I don't mean to sound trite. I'm trying to keep things in perspective.

    david g
    www.mediatrips.com

    Rob Myers wrote:

    >On Thursday, November 04, 2004, at 09:42AM, David Goldschmidt <david@personify.tv> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >>To demonize the enemy is to become the enemy.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >How come this never turns conservatives into liberals? ;-/
    >
    >- Rob.
    >+
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
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    >
  • LUNK | Thu Nov 4th 2004 3:55 a.m.
    BUSHIT!!!!

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "t.whid" <twhid@twhid.com>
    To: "rhizome" <list@rhizome.org>
    Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 5:38 PM
    Subject: RHIZOME\_RAW: fuck Bush

    > fuck Bush!
    >
    > You Bush voters, your american citizenship is officially revoked for
    > not identifying and dismissing the creeping authoritarianism that is
    > the GWB administration. If it's not obvious enough now, over the next=

    > four years it will become abundantly clear how big a mistake you have
    > made. Hopefully we'll still have democratic institutions in place at
    > that point so we'll be able to correct it.
    >
    >
    >
    > ===
    > <twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
    > ===
    >
    >
    > +
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    > +
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  • Steve Kudlak | Thu Nov 4th 2004 4:57 a.m.
    It is pretty depressing to me. Other than Bill of Rights
    stuff I am going to give up politics and do more Art or
    something else. I mean I keep having the fantasy if I had
    stayed in Ohio I could have changed things. Most likely people
    in Franklin county would have thought I was crazy and unless
    I somehow got a radio program I don't think I could have done
    anything too much. Going around with my girlfriend to attract
    attention and talk to people probably would not have worked.
    I still regret I didn't do it as I stare forlornly at my OHIO
    ID/DL ... Of course I am registered to vote in California and
    felt pretty useless. This is the first time I just don't want to
    watch C-SPAN in a long time.

    Have Fun,
    Sends Steve

    > The people who voted for bUSH are not the enemy. They are my family.
    > And bUSH is but an obstacle to a more liberal political future.
    >
    > I don't mean to sound trite. I'm trying to keep things in perspective.
    >
    > david g
    > www.mediatrips.com
    >
    >
    > Rob Myers wrote:
    >
    >>On Thursday, November 04, 2004, at 09:42AM, David Goldschmidt
    >> <david@personify.tv> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>To demonize the enemy is to become the enemy.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>How come this never turns conservatives into liberals? ;-/
    >>
    >>- Rob.
    >>+
    >>-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >>-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >>-> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
    >>+
    >>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
    > +
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  • Jason Van Anden | Thu Nov 4th 2004 6:27 a.m.
    Steve,

    Are you planning to make art to effect change, or is it that you are planning to just zone out for a while?

    Jason Van Anden
    www.smilepoject.com
  • joy garnett | Thu Nov 4th 2004 6:34 a.m.
    > To demonize the enemy is to become the enemy.

    that's exactly right.
  • patrick lichty | Thu Nov 4th 2004 7:11 a.m.
    Are you planning to make art to effect change, or is it that you are
    planning to just zone out for a while?

    I know this was to Steve, but hey.
    And the demonization statement is entirely true. Perhaps I can consider
    myself "an" aenemy, but I'm sure I'll moderate a little, but I fear not
    much.

    I'm going to try to make cutting edge work to try to bring issues
    forward, but I might have to crash for a few days.

    Between my personal and public lives, I'm wondering what I have that
    gives me satisfaction or pleasure besides IA and perhaps animating for
    Yes Men.
  • Lee Wells | Thu Nov 4th 2004 7:19 a.m.
    I was thinking the same thing, I don
  • MTAA | Thu Nov 4th 2004 7:37 a.m.
    I'm so very satisfied to see so many fuck Bush subjects in my email
    client :-)

    a bit more below:

    On Nov 3, 2004, at 8:38 PM, bensyverson wrote:

    >
    > On Nov 3, 2004, at 6:16 PM, Jason Van Anden wrote:
    >
    >> I still believe that more people share my values than those of the
    >> far right - it is just a matter of mobilization.
    >
    > Don't fool yourself; turnout was extremely high, a gigantic number of
    > people were mobilized, and they re-elected Bush.
    >
    > The people have spoken. America does not share our values.
    >
    > The question now is: why are we here? There are plenty of other
    > countries with more sane morals and values. Fuck this SUV-ridden
    > strip-mall haven.

    I go back and forth with this question all the time...

    It would be great to leave, I don't see these bUSH voters as my fellow
    citizens. They voted out of fear and religious intolerance. They want
    to turn b's bogus war on terror into theocracy vs. theocracy.

    Then again. America is a great place. NYC especially (not culturally
    part of the USA however). Do we really want to abandon it to religious
    superstition and fear? If we don't do something now it may come and
    find us eventually...

    Also, I'm having a hard time coming to terms with this as reality. Are
    there any (real) investigations into vote theft/fraud? I just can't
    believe that the majority of Americans are this fucking stupid.

    ===
    <twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
    ===
  • Jason Van Anden | Thu Nov 4th 2004 7:43 a.m.
    If to demonize is to become we would have won.

    I am not suggesting that this means we should follow their lead, but seriously - look at how they demonized Kerry's voluntary service in Vietnam. The man volunteered to go to hell because he felt it was the descent thing to do, and this was turned into a bad thing.

    david goldschmidt>> To demonize the enemy is to become the enemy.
    joy garnett>that's exactly right.

    Jason Van Anden
    www.smileproject.com
  • ben syverson | Thu Nov 4th 2004 8:41 a.m.
    On Nov 4, 2004, at 3:31 AM, David Goldschmidt wrote:

    > I speak as a Buddhist and as the only Democrat in my family. I know
    > who voted for Bush. My entire family voted him. And they are good
    > people.
    >
    > To demonize the enemy is to become the enemy.

    I'm not trying to demonize Bush voters or claim that they are the
    "enemy." I think they are awash in ignorance, which is profoundly
    upsetting, but it is by no means their fault.

    However, as a Buddhist, you have a commitment to non-harming. Bush saw
    3,000 people die, and took that as an excuse to kill over 100,000
    people in the desert. If you ask me, that borders on genocide. If you
    think it was unintentional, think long and hard about that. Any and all
    Buddhists should be appalled by this administration.

    You don't need to demonize the enemy, but you must recognize the
    infliction of mass suffering. Indeed, there is a long history of
    Buddhist protest, including self-immolation (which I don't personally
    agree with). My mother is a zen priest, and I can assure you, she is
    thoroughly angered and saddened by this election.

    - ben
  • Gregory Little | Thu Nov 4th 2004 9:02 a.m.
    >I just can't
    believe that the majority of Americans are this fucking stupid.

    I share your anger, and the only sense of solace I feel today is from this
    list, as I see the rain-soaked pamphlets outside my front door from 2/11,
    saying enough is enough, get out and vote. Yes Fuck Bush!, rape and burn
    the bastard.
    But, the thing is, they are not stupid. Bill Gates supports them, Kelcy
    Grammer, my father--he is not stupid...my father-in-law, phd emeritus
    philosopher..he is not stupid. This neo-conservo-biblethumpin-holier than
    thou liberal bashing fucking scary evil white people empire thing has been
    building for 200 years, and hey everybody, much of this happened on our
    watch while we wrote them off as being stupid. Well, I ask myself, who is
    the stupid one?
    I am also asking myself about my work. Yes, Abe Golam,
    "If there was ever a time for a nonstop experimental party, that time is
    now."
    I am with that. I am also in Ohio. My county, Lorain, went 65% Kerry. The
    map of Ohio is a mini map of the country, all the urban areas went strongly
    Kerry, of course it is rural American, one by one, the heart of the heart of
    the country, that elected Bush, 10 votes here, 200 there...the McDonalds
    theory... So far, the art of any merit that has reached these people has
    played into their ethical and moral agendas (man it hurts to call ethical),
    back to Mapplethorpe, Serrano, Findley....again, those wonderful artists,
    heroes, won their battles, but in the end we lost the war, we all know that
    in the US arts funding is in the toilet...those battles, like Kerry winning
    the debates, were the nails in our coffin...what do we do as artists? If we
    continue to inflame, piss them off, shove it in their faces and call them
    stupid, which is what I mostly want to do...well, maybe not to keep doing
    the same thing expecting a different result....and the domain wars, the
    underminers, the tactical media-ists, the effectiveness of rtmark, critical
    art ensemble, US Department of Art & Technology, brilliant, effective in so
    many important ways, but not going to change the vote of the people that put
    this pathological, not stupid, sorry, but pathological, bastard in
    office...they could give a fuck about Leonardo, etoys, etc....how could
    they, they don't even know that while Bush is stroking their bible with one
    hand, he has the other so far up their wallets that......
    So yes, fuck Bush, and yes, the only solution I can see at this moment is
    the nonstop experimental art party, while we still can....
    The Ron Suskind post, constructed realities, evil empires, that is something
    we know something about, maybe we can fight them there.......the war we are
    waging has not worked.

    Gregory Little
    Assistant Professor
    Digital Art
    Bowling Green State University
    Bowling Green OH 43403

    Voice 419-372-2293
    Fax 419-372-2544
    email glittle@bgnet.bgsu.edu <mailto:glittle@bgnet.bgsu.edu>

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-list@rhizome.org [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org]On Behalf Of
    > Jason Van Anden
    > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 9:43 AM
    > To: list@rhizome.org
    > Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: fuck Bush
    >
    >
    > If to demonize is to become we would have won.
    >
    > I am not suggesting that this means we should follow their lead,
    > but seriously - look at how they demonized Kerry's voluntary
    > service in Vietnam. The man volunteered to go to hell because he
    > felt it was the descent thing to do, and this was turned into a bad thing.
    >
    > david goldschmidt>> To demonize the enemy is to become the enemy.
    > joy garnett>that's exactly right.
    >
    > Jason Van Anden
    > www.smileproject.com
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
  • Ivan Pope | Thu Nov 4th 2004 9:45 a.m.
    Gregory Little wrote:

    >I share your anger, and the only sense of solace I feel today is from this
    >list, as I see the rain-soaked pamphlets outside my front door from 2/11,
    >saying enough is enough, get out and vote. Yes Fuck Bush!, rape and burn
    >the bastard.
    ><snip>
    >So yes, fuck Bush, and yes, the only solution I can see at this moment is
    >the nonstop experimental art party, while we still can....
    >The Ron Suskind post, constructed realities, evil empires, that is something
    >we know something about, maybe we can fight them there.......the war we are
    >waging has not worked.
    >
    >Gregory Little
    >Assistant Professor
    >Digital Art
    >Bowling Green State University
    >Bowling Green OH 43403
    >
    >Voice 419-372-2293
    >Fax 419-372-2544
    >email glittle@bgnet.bgsu.edu <mailto:glittle@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
    >
    >
    >
    >
    I guess the fact that you feel you can put your employment details at
    the end of this email shows that not _everything_ is fucked up.
    Or put it another way, I don't think you would have done that in 1930s
    Germany or maybe even in current day Italy.
    Cheeriso,
    Ivan
  • brad brace | Thu Nov 4th 2004 10:22 a.m.
    you 'outlaws' are free to protest by not patronizing the
    ignominious arts-subsidy circuit... or perhaps there's one
    more remaining "interactive new media parcel" that can
    feature cellphones ;))

    --- bbs: brad brace sound ---
    --- http://63.170.215.11:8000 ---

    The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project >>>> posted since 1994 <<<<
    "... easily the most venerable net-art project of all time."

    + + + serial ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/b/bbrace
    + + + eccentric ftp:// (your-site-here!)
    + + + continuous hotline://artlyin.ftr.va.com.au
    + + + hypermodern ftp://ftp.rdrop.com/pub/users/bbrace
    + + + imagery ftp://bjornmag:Sobject@kunst.no/12hr/

    News: alt.binaries.pictures.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.misc
    alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.misc alt.12hr

    . 12hr email
    subscriptions => http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/buy-into.html

    . Other | Mirror: http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html
    Projects | Reverse Solidus: http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/
    | http://bbrace.net

    { brad brace } <<<<< bbrace@eskimo.com >>>> ~finger for pgp

    * http://www.bloglines.com/blog/bbrace
  • Pall Thayer | Thu Nov 4th 2004 10:41 a.m.
    I would say that this thread has turned into a very meaningfull,
    meaningfull thread, generating lots of responses and therefore deserves to
    be published on the frontpage of the site. And no, it's not just because I
    want to see the words "fuck Bush" in big bold letters on Rhizomes home
    page,
    but yeah... maybe a little.

    On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, Ivan Pope wrote:

    > Gregory Little wrote:
    >
    > >I share your anger, and the only sense of solace I feel today is from this
    > >list, as I see the rain-soaked pamphlets outside my front door from 2/11,
    > >saying enough is enough, get out and vote. Yes Fuck Bush!, rape and burn
    > >the bastard.
    > ><snip>
    > >So yes, fuck Bush, and yes, the only solution I can see at this moment is
    > >the nonstop experimental art party, while we still can....
    > >The Ron Suskind post, constructed realities, evil empires, that is something
    > >we know something about, maybe we can fight them there.......the war we are
    > >waging has not worked.
    > >
    > >Gregory Little
    > >Assistant Professor
    > >Digital Art
    > >Bowling Green State University
    > >Bowling Green OH 43403
    > >
    > >Voice 419-372-2293
    > >Fax 419-372-2544
    > >email glittle@bgnet.bgsu.edu <mailto:glittle@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > I guess the fact that you feel you can put your employment details at
    > the end of this email shows that not _everything_ is fucked up.
    > Or put it another way, I don't think you would have done that in 1930s
    > Germany or maybe even in current day Italy.
    > Cheeriso,
    > Ivan
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >

    --
    Pall Thayer
    artist/teacher
    http://www.this.is/pallit
    http://130.208.220.190/
    http://130.208.220.190/nuharm
    http://130.208.220.190/panse
  • Jason Van Anden | Thu Nov 4th 2004 11:14 a.m.
    I agree. I am at work right now, so I cannot make the icon or I would. If you wish, email me a gif that's 135 x 170, and I will.

    Jason Van Anden
  • void void | Thu Nov 4th 2004 12:10 p.m.
    I just saw Laurie Anderson's "The End Of the Moon" live solo show in Boulder CO. last night the show started with:
    " I'm not a very good loser"
    and proceeded to be a great inspiring mix of music, sociopolitical commentary, professing democratic and human responsibility, and zen stand up!
    which made me think...
    until liberal secular people in this country come up with a network of weekly live meeting places in which we spend two hours expressing our ideas and engaging in discussion ( like church) we will NEVER be able to counter act the dogma with which the right wing seems to be able to swing the electorate to their way of thinking.

    just a thought!

    AE04
    atomicelroy.com
    CHAOS Studios
  • Gregory Little | Thu Nov 4th 2004 12:25 p.m.
    excellent point atomic elroy! I like it, I think maybe it has started here.
    Fuck Bush!

    Greg

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-list@rhizome.org [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org]On Behalf Of
    > atomic elroy
    > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 2:11 PM
    > To: list@rhizome.org
    > Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Re: fuck Bush
    >
    >
    >
    > I just saw Laurie Anderson's "The End Of the Moon" live solo show
    > in Boulder CO. last night the show started with:
    > " I'm not a very good loser"
    > and proceeded to be a great inspiring mix of music,
    > sociopolitical commentary, professing democratic and human
    > responsibility, and zen stand up!
    > which made me think...
    > until liberal secular people in this country come up with a
    > network of weekly live meeting places in which we spend two hours
    > expressing our ideas and engaging in discussion ( like church) we
    > will NEVER be able to counter act the dogma with which the right
    > wing seems to be able to swing the electorate to their way of thinking.
    >
    > just a thought!
    >
    > AE04
    > atomicelroy.com
    > CHAOS Studios
    > +
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    > +
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  • Francis Hwang | Thu Nov 4th 2004 1:07 p.m.
    On Nov 3, 2004, at 3:48 PM, bensyverson wrote:
    > What are you going to do? Move to Florida and convince people on a
    > daily basis? What about Ohio?

    Personally, I'm trying to figure out how I'll be involved (in
    non-Rhizome ways). I know that 2006 is a Congressional election year,
    so much of my involvement that year will probably be to somehow help
    out Congressional candidates in states besides New York who might
    benefit from my help somehow. Not sure how that takes shape, whether
    you're talking about phone calls or fundraising or tech support or
    what. I'll let some more dedicated political activist figure that out,
    and I'll sign up.

    I am hoping that one of the long-term benefits of this election year is
    the personal exposure a lot of people got to the nuts-and-bolts of
    electoral politics, and the dawning realization that it's not so awful
    after all. So much of modern culture, on the right and the left, is
    about personal aggrandizement--getting out your blog or recording an
    album or getting a solo show or whatever. But this past year, I know a
    lot of ambitious egoists (myself included) who shut the hell up and
    signed up for big coordinated organizations, like MoveOn or America
    Coming Together, to be a footsoldier in a much bigger battle. I did it,
    and I'm glad to have done it, and I actually liked how it felt, and I'm
    going to do it again. Like that Allen Ginsburg line, "America I'm
    putting my queer shoulder to the wheel."

    Anyway, I'm very definitely not leaving, not for a long time. I'm dug
    in here. Not just professionally, but personally. All my family is
    here. My youngest brother is drafting age right now, and he's here. My
    cousin is drafting age in 8 years, and he's here. Until the U.S.
    becomes like Berlin in 1939, and I can convince my entire family to
    move to Canada, I can't leave them behind.

    More broadly, though, I owe a lot to this country. By letting us in the
    early 1970s, by giving us all economic and cultural opportunities, this
    country made my family what it is today, and made me what I am today.
    There's also that small indebtedness from the Korean War; if American
    G.I.s had not travelled to my funny country to die on behalf of people
    they couldn't even talk to, I'm fairly certain that all of my mother's
    side of the family would've been executed as counterrevolutionaries
    once the North Koreans came down.

    My middle brother just came back after two years in South Korea, and
    now he's engaged. They will get married this summer, and then his wife
    will emigrate to the U.S. Under any circumstances that transition would
    be confusing, but given the tenor of national politics right now, I'm
    concerned that she will come to know the United States as a place of
    anger and acrimony and fear and lies and cynicism. That she won't have
    a chance to learn about the parts of it that I am deeply, deeply in
    love with: its energy and diversity and optimism and even its
    vulgarity. Maybe we're heading into a long twilight, and everything
    that was once good about this country will drain away. Or maybe we're
    at the end of the pendulum's swing, and the country just might move
    back if somebody were to give it a hard push. I'm not giving up on
    that, not just yet.

    So, yeah. Fuck you, Bush. I'm not going anywhere.

    Francis Hwang
    Director of Technology
    Rhizome.org
    phone: 212-219-1288x202
    AIM: francisrhizome
    + + +
  • neil jenkins | Thu Nov 4th 2004 1:31 p.m.
    > I just saw Laurie Anderson's "The End Of the Moon" live solo show in
    > Boulder CO. last night the show started with:
    > " I'm not a very good loser"
    > and proceeded to be a great inspiring mix of music, sociopolitical
    > commentary, professing democratic and human responsibility, and zen
    > stand up!
    >

    She always pops up when you most need her, I saw Laurie Anderson play
    in Bristol, UK, shortly after 9/11, she played O Superman and Let X=X,
    seminal and profound in their own right, maybe brave or foolish to play
    at that time and context, but appreciated by all.

    > which made me think...
    > until liberal secular people in this country come up with a network of
    > weekly live meeting places in which we spend two hours expressing our
    > ideas and engaging in discussion ( like church) we will NEVER be able
    > to counter act the dogma with which the right wing seems to be able to
    > swing the electorate to their way of thinking.

    we have a model of that here, only the alcohol induced setting the
    world to rights discussions in pubs has the same outcome...

    cynicism aside, is anyone thinking of emigrating ?

    --

    "O Superman. O judge. O Mom and Dad. Mom and Dad.
    O Superman. O judge. O Mom and Dad. Mom and Dad.
    Hi. I'm not home right now. But if you want to leave a
    message, just start talking at the sound of the tone.
    Hello? This is your Mother. Are you there? Are you
    coming home?
    Hello? Is anybody home? Well, you don't know me,
    but I know you.
    And I've got a message to give to you.
    Here come the planes.
    So you better get ready. Ready to go. You can come
    as you are, but pay as you go. Pay as you go.

    And I said: OK. Who is this really? And the voice said:
    This is the hand, the hand that takes. This is the
    hand, the hand that takes.
    This is the hand, the hand that takes.
    Here come the planes.
    They're American planes. Made in America.
    Smoking or non-smoking?
    And the voice said: Neither snow nor rain nor gloom
    of night shall stay these couriers from the swift
    completion of their appointed rounds.

    'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice.
    And when justive is gone, there's always force.
    And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!

    So hold me, Mom, in your long arms. So hold me,
    Mom, in your long arms.
    In your automatic arms. Your electronic arms.
    In your arms.
    So hold me, Mom, in your long arms.
    Your petrochemical arms. Your military arms.
    In your electronic arms.
  • Jess Loseby | Thu Nov 4th 2004 4:59 p.m.
    still sad but true...
    http://www.no-where.tv/puppet.htm

    I
    > want to see the words "fuck Bush" in big bold letters on Rhizomes home
    > page

    o
    /^ rssgallery.com
    ][
  • Jason Van Anden | Thu Nov 4th 2004 5:44 p.m.
    Francis,

    Very well said.

    In Ft. Lauderdale I met professionals of all sorts doing anything that was asked of them by the ACT staffers, no questions asked, New Yorkers no less. I was amazed and touched by the selflessness I witnessed.

    It seems that Bush may be a uniter not a divider after all.

    I am planning to devote my time, out of state if necessary, for the mid-term elections as well. It was suggested to me by one of ACT's staffers to wait until after Thanksgiving - to see which organizations will continue their mission.

    Jason Van Anden
    www.smileproject.com
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