Re the discussion on commission/competition specs a
couple of weeks back, even making allowances for the
fact that this is translated from another language,
this is the sort of thing that completely does my head
in.
I find the prospect of trying to make something that
accords with this as inviting as root canal work. Its
not so much that it's complete gibberish -it isn't
quite. It's the monumental mind bending cliche ridden
banality of it that really hits home:
<black box_ something whose internal structure and
internal functioning
are
unknown or not considered to be important
white cube_ an ostensibly neutral space, wholly geared
toward the
presentation of "the artwork" and thus never
unproblematic
Assertion, perception, illusion. black box and white
cube can be
defined in
terms of the interface concept. Interfaces form
transitions and enable
communication between various systems. Contact points,
surfaces,
transmitters. Unknown factor? The interface as
translator and mediator
between medium and message. It's easy to extend the
digital analogy to
a
more general level: user and content, individual and
society, public
and
artist. What demands are thereby placed on interfaces;
how consciously
do we
deal with interfaces; how easily do we let ourselves
be manipulated by
surfaces…?
garage 04 will attempt a critical examination of the
interface
principle,
between surface and source of friction, claim and
actual function. This
applies both to interesting technical interfaces for
entering the black
box
and to the practice of placing, presenting and
producing art and the
conditions under which it is received, oriented
equally toward artists,
producers/curators and the public. Send us your
proposals for
presentations,
installations, performances, projects, papers, and
workshops.>
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almost gibberish
-
Type: discussion
Comments
Saucer of milk, table two!
On 1 Feb 2004, at 19:57, Michael Szpakowski wrote:
> Re the discussion on commission/competition specs a
> couple of weeks back, even making allowances for the
> fact that this is translated from another language,
> this is the sort of thing that completely does my head
> in.
It's an amusing enough proposition, and shared culture often takes
cliche as its point of departure. Anyone who wants a destination point
laid out as well probably should recognise that there won't be anything
non-hobbyist for them to do in art.
> I find the prospect of trying to make something that
> accords with this as inviting as root canal work. Its
> not so much that it's complete gibberish -it isn't
> quite. It's the monumental mind bending cliche ridden
> banality of it that really hits home:
So provide an alternative. Ironise it. Do a Duchamp. Any of these
approaches will contribute to this managerial/consultancy culture of
"free verse crossed with a video recorder instruction manual" (as I
called it a decade ago) withering away.
- Rob.
Rob
I don't understand any of your reply.
michael
— Rob Myers <[email protected]> wrote:
> Saucer of milk, table two!
>
> On 1 Feb 2004, at 19:57, Michael Szpakowski wrote:
>
> > Re the discussion on commission/competition specs
> a
> > couple of weeks back, even making allowances for
> the
> > fact that this is translated from another
> language,
> > this is the sort of thing that completely does my
> head
> > in.
>
> It's an amusing enough proposition, and shared
> culture often takes
> cliche as its point of departure. Anyone who wants a
> destination point
> laid out as well probably should recognise that
> there won't be anything
> non-hobbyist for them to do in art.
>
> > I find the prospect of trying to make something
> that
> > accords with this as inviting as root canal work.
> Its
> > not so much that it's complete gibberish -it isn't
> > quite. It's the monumental mind bending cliche
> ridden
> > banality of it that really hits home:
>
> So provide an alternative. Ironise it. Do a Duchamp.
> Any of these
> approaches will contribute to this
> managerial/consultancy culture of
> "free verse crossed with a video recorder
> instruction manual" (as I
> called it a decade ago) withering away.
>
> - Rob.
>
> +
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
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<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<html>
<head>
<title></title>
</head>
<body>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">Hi Michael,</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">somebody has just be overdosing on
manovich again….</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">see:</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">The Poetics of Augmented Space: Learning
from Prada ' Lev Manovich
(2002)  (http://www.manovich.net in the articles section)</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><br/>
</div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">which contains a piece of writing
sub headed 'White Cube versus Black
Box' </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">I think it might have been published
on rhizome too at the time.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><br/>
</div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">not that anyone is allowing their
curatorial agendas to be influenced too
heavily on manovich's writing.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">no. surely not.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><br/>
</div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">jess.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><br/>
</div>
<div align="left"><br/>
</div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#008000"><span style="font-size:10pt"><u>Date sent:                  Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:57:45 -0800
(PST)</u></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#008000"><span style="font-size:10pt"><u>From:                         Michael Szpakowski
<[email protected]></u></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#008000"><span style="font-size:10pt"><u>Subject:                     RHIZOME_RAW: almost gibberish</u></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#008000"><span style="font-size:10pt"><u>To:                             rhizome
<[email protected]></u></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#008000"><span style="font-size:10pt"><u>Send reply to:            Michael Szpakowski <[email protected]></u></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><br/></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> Re the discussion
on commission/competition specs a</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> couple of weeks
back, even making allowances for the</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> fact that this
is translated from another language,</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> this is the sort
of thing that completely does my head</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> in.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">>> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> <black box_> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> Assertion, perception,
illusion. black box and white</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">> cube c</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"> o</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">/^ rssgallery.com</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"> ][</span></font></div>
</body>
</html>
Then it is entirely gibberish.
Hoorah! :-)
OK, sorry, in plain non-Rob English:
If you don't like what they're saying there are still constructive ways
of engaging with it.
I'm not that keen on this kind of gibberish either, but engaging
constructively with it means that it can be got rid of or redirected.
- Rob.
On 1 Feb 2004, at 21:40, Michael Szpakowski wrote:
> Rob
> I don't understand any of your reply.
i'll try that again - really did come out gibberish for some reason >-*
—-
Hi Michael,
somebody has just be overdosing on manovich again….
see:
The Poetics of Augmented Space: Learning from Prada ' Lev Manovich
(2002) (http://www.manovich.net in the articles section)
which contains a piece of writing sub headed 'White Cube versus Black
Box'
I think it might have been published on rhizome too at the time.
not that anyone is allowing their curatorial agendas to be influenced too
heavily on manovich's writing.
no. surely not.
jess. o
/^ rssgallery.com
][
Hi Rob
Thanks for the explanation.
It was really only a bit of spleen venting on my part
.. but I have to disagree with you a little ..I think
engaging with this sort of nonsense legitimises it..it
becomes ( becomes -who am I kidding -*is*) part of the
commonly accepted culture..and it's simply a
substitute for thought..I'm not sure that ironizing it
does anything either except engage with it on its own
shallow terms.
Sometimes, big things , little things , Iraq War,
cyber babble , you have to take a stand.
If it was a choice between going back to a day job &
only having the possibility of working with dreck like
this quite honestly I think I'd go back to work.
best
michael
— Rob Myers <[email protected]> wrote:
> Then it is entirely gibberish.
>
> Hoorah! :-)
>
> OK, sorry, in plain non-Rob English:
>
> If you don't like what they're saying there are
> still constructive ways
> of engaging with it.
>
> I'm not that keen on this kind of gibberish either,
> but engaging
> constructively with it means that it can be got rid
> of or redirected.
>
> - Rob.
=====
*** QuickTime large QuickTime NUMBER, it is small, office being nearly office OF the office OF the COMMANDS office OF the film or many nearly time the small order where that, that is the office OF the office OF the COMMANDS QuickTime when into the film, is given, it gives the office OF the
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/Some_QuickTime_Movies
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/ ***
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"Influenced" is kind Jess.
Whatever you think of Manovich he's consistent
thoughtful and coherent which is more than you can say
for his epigones.
But you're right about the methodology - not willing
to make the effort to have an original thought we lift
a bit of half or quarter digested Manovich ( or
Derrida, or Lyotard or Lacan or…) that sounds kinda
cool, and attach it willy nilly to our
project..ensuring instant cred with the art
fashionistas.
Pass me the sick bag!
best
michael
— Jess Loseby <[email protected]> wrote:
> i'll try that again - really did come out gibberish
> for some reason >-*
> —-
>
> Hi Michael,
> somebody has just be overdosing on manovich
> again….
> see:
> The Poetics of Augmented Space: Learning from Prada
> ' Lev Manovich
> (2002) (http://www.manovich.net in the articles
> section)
>
> which contains a piece of writing sub headed 'White
> Cube versus Black
> Box'
> I think it might have been published on rhizome too
> at the time.
>
> not that anyone is allowing their curatorial agendas
> to be influenced too
> heavily on manovich's writing.
> no. surely not.
>
> jess. o
> /^ rssgallery.com
> ][
>
>
>
> +
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
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What is a Lev Manovich?
—– Original Message —–
From: Jess Loseby
To: Michael Szpakowski ; [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: almost gibberish
Hi Michael,
somebody has just be overdosing on manovich again….
see:
The Poetics of Augmented Space: Learning from Prada ' Lev Manovich (2002)=
(http://www.manovich.net in the articles section)
which contains a piece of writing sub headed 'White Cube versus Black Box=
'
I think it might have been published on rhizome too at the time.
not that anyone is allowing their curatorial agendas to be influenced too=
heavily on manovich's writing.
no. surely not.
jess.
Date sent: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:57:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Szpakowski <[email protected]>
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: almost gibberish
To: rhizome <[email protected]>
Send reply to: Michael Szpakowski <[email protected]>
> Re the discussion on commission/competition specs a
> couple of weeks back, even making allowances for the
> fact that this is translated from another language,
> this is the sort of thing that completely does my head
> in.
>>
> <black box_>
> Assertion, perception, illusion. black box and white
> cube c
o
/^ rssgallery.com
][
+ -> post: [email protected] -> questions: [email protected] -> subscribe/u=
nsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz -> give: http://r=
hizome.org/support -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to=
non-members + Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in t=
he Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php=
Manovich, I hear he's good but he's no Salvaggio
—– Original Message —–
From: "Michael Szpakowski" <[email protected]>
To: "Jess Loseby" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: almost gibberish
> "Influenced" is kind Jess.
> Whatever you think of Manovich he's consistent
> thoughtful and coherent which is more than you can say
> for his epigones.
> But you're right about the methodology - not willing
> to make the effort to have an original thought we lift
> a bit of half or quarter digested Manovich ( or
> Derrida, or Lyotard or Lacan or…) that sounds kinda
> cool, and attach it willy nilly to our
> project..ensuring instant cred with the art
> fashionistas.
> Pass me the sick bag!
> best
> michael
>
> — Jess Loseby <[email protected]> wrote:
> > i'll try that again - really did come out gibberish
> > for some reason >-*
> > —-
> >
> > Hi Michael,
> > somebody has just be overdosing on manovich
> > again….
> > see:
> > The Poetics of Augmented Space: Learning from Prada
> > ' Lev Manovich
> > (2002) (http://www.manovich.net in the articles
> > section)
> >
> > which contains a piece of writing sub headed 'White
> > Cube versus Black
> > Box'
> > I think it might have been published on rhizome too
> > at the time.
> >
> > not that anyone is allowing their curatorial agendas
> > to be influenced too
> > heavily on manovich's writing.
> > no. surely not.
> >
> > jess. o
> > /^ rssgallery.com
> > ][
> >
> >
> >
> > +
> > -> post: [email protected]
> > -> questions: [email protected]
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> > open to non-members
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> > out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
> +
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
Hello Eryk!
best
michael
— Eryk Salvaggio <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> What is a Lev Manovich?
>
>
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Jess Loseby
> To: Michael Szpakowski ; [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 4:36 PM
> Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: almost gibberish
>
>
> Hi Michael,
> somebody has just be overdosing on manovich
> again….
> see:
> The Poetics of Augmented Space: Learning from
> Prada ' Lev Manovich (2002)
> (http://www.manovich.net in the articles section)
>
>
> which contains a piece of writing sub headed
> 'White Cube versus Black Box'
> I think it might have been published on rhizome
> too at the time.
>
>
> not that anyone is allowing their curatorial
> agendas to be influenced too heavily on manovich's
> writing.
> no. surely not.
>
>
> jess.
>
>
>
>
> Date sent: Sun, 1 Feb 2004
> 11:57:45 -0800 (PST)
> From: Michael Szpakowski
> <[email protected]>
> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: almost
> gibberish
> To: rhizome
> <[email protected]>
> Send reply to: Michael Szpakowski
> <[email protected]>
>
>
> > Re the discussion on commission/competition
> specs a
> > couple of weeks back, even making allowances for
> the
> > fact that this is translated from another
> language,
> > this is the sort of thing that completely does
> my head
> > in.
> >>
> > <black box_>
> > Assertion, perception, illusion. black box and
> white
> > cube c
> o
> /^ rssgallery.com
> ][
> + -> post: [email protected] -> questions:
> [email protected] -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz ->
> give: http://rhizome.org/support -> visit: on
> Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to
> non-members + Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to
> the terms set out in the Membership Agreement
> available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
__________________________________
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On Sunday, February 01, 2004, at 11:54PM, Michael Szpakowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>epigones.
Cool, I learnt a new word. :-)
- Rob.
On Sunday, February 01, 2004, at 11:42PM, Michael Szpakowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> It was really only a bit of spleen venting on my part
I can relate to that. :-)
>.. but I have to disagree with you a little ..I think
>engaging with this sort of nonsense legitimises it..it
>becomes ( becomes -who am I kidding -*is*) part of the
>commonly accepted culture..and it's simply a
>substitute for thought..I'm not sure that ironizing it
>does anything either except engage with it on its own
>shallow terms.
I agree that producing something explained in terms of or just illustrating curatorial cyber-wibble* would just legitimise it. However a critical engagement (and "engagement" can refer to a military event as well as a social event…) might be more effective than spleen venting IMVHO.
And I didn't think the proposal was all that bad. Our current political problems have much to do with interface/mediation problems. Or can be phrased in that way. Content doesn't have to be single-layered.
For *real* curatorial wibble you should read the "Artbollocks" page in "The Jackdaw" magazine. :-)
>Sometimes, big things , little things , Iraq War,
>cyber babble , you have to take a stand.
>If it was a choice between going back to a day job &
>only having the possibility of working with dreck like
>this quite honestly I think I'd go back to work.
>best
Or you can send them a urinal.
But I have a day job. I'd rather start with the dreck and come up with something useful. Like making "tupperware" from the sludge it starts out as…
- Rob.
* - Wibble = voluminous nonsense.
Hello and Goodbye! My membership has expired and I am simply not interested
in resubscribing. Both of you feel free to say hello and let me know about
new works and ideas you're posting to rhizome.
Cheers,
-er.
—– Original Message —–
From: "Michael Szpakowski" <[email protected]>
To: "Eryk Salvaggio" <[email protected]>; "Jess Loseby"
<[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 4:09 AM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: almost gibberish
> Hello Eryk!
> best
> michael
> — Eryk Salvaggio <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > What is a Lev Manovich?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: Jess Loseby
> > To: Michael Szpakowski ; [email protected]
> > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 4:36 PM
> > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: almost gibberish
> >
> >
> > Hi Michael,
> > somebody has just be overdosing on manovich
> > again….
> > see:
> > The Poetics of Augmented Space: Learning from
> > Prada ' Lev Manovich (2002)
> > (http://www.manovich.net in the articles section)
> >
> >
> > which contains a piece of writing sub headed
> > 'White Cube versus Black Box'
> > I think it might have been published on rhizome
> > too at the time.
> >
> >
> > not that anyone is allowing their curatorial
> > agendas to be influenced too heavily on manovich's
> > writing.
> > no. surely not.
> >
> >
> > jess.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Date sent: Sun, 1 Feb 2004
> > 11:57:45 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Michael Szpakowski
> > <[email protected]>
> > Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: almost
> > gibberish
> > To: rhizome
> > <[email protected]>
> > Send reply to: Michael Szpakowski
> > <[email protected]>
> >
> >
> > > Re the discussion on commission/competition
> > specs a
> > > couple of weeks back, even making allowances for
> > the
> > > fact that this is translated from another
> > language,
> > > this is the sort of thing that completely does
> > my head
> > > in.
> > >>
> > > <black box_>
> > > Assertion, perception, illusion. black box and
> > white
> > > cube c
> > o
> > /^ rssgallery.com
> > ][
> > + -> post: [email protected] -> questions:
> > [email protected] -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz ->
> > give: http://rhizome.org/support -> visit: on
> > Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to
> > non-members + Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to
> > the terms set out in the Membership Agreement
> > available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
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> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
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> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>