. community —

Re: Call for Proposals at Readme 100 Software Art Factory

This kind of shit really pisses me off. I'm so sick of these design and technology "artists" who have no idea how to do anything, and just come up with ideas for people who did spend years learning how code.

"No need to mess around with abstruse programs or bother with dreary code. The world is full of people willing to do the hard work for you."

What the fuck? Why are you doing this in the first place if you don't take any interest in code?

Somehow people think that if they went to art school they have some kind of revolutionary ideas that every programmer is just dying to go and be their code monkey for. Because hey, they're programmers, you know.. people who live to write code for brilliant old you and have no creative ideas of their own.

I cant quite express what I feel when I see projects that are nothing but a bunch of mockups because the person who came up with it has no idea how to do anything. I can come up with a million brilliant ideas right here and now.. Hey, let's make this thing that uses google to build a complete map of human consciousness… great! Why don't I outsource it to someone who's actually brilliant, so I can really call it my own.

Assholes.

Comments

curt cloninger Sept. 20 2005 12:23Reply

This project actually beat me to the punch. My next post in the "_ this concept" series was going to be…

+++++++++++++++++++++

subcontract this concept: art-starz-r-us inc.

PRECEDENCES:
Corporations have been hiring marketing firms to make them look good forever. Those marketing firms in turn hire graphic design firms, many of whom turn around and hire freelance designers.

Damien Hirst, Mariko Mori, etc. subcontract out their larger installation pieces to be build by other folks.

Teen boy groups like Menudo and New Kids on the Block are created and pimped by A&R record executives to be the next new thing. "We make you big star."


CONCEPT:
You long since stopped "making" art. Why waste your precious time even coming up with the concepts! You just want to be an art star, no mucking about. Skip the middle man and simply subcontract out the entire lot – ideas, craft, implementation, and marketing. If you meet our criteria (got the look, the verve, the drive, that special something), we'll make you an art star. Our generative semiotic software will come up with your name (N.N., dextro, stanza, eBoy, Linda Lovelace, etc.) and the name of your art movement (neen, telic, etc.). We will construct an artsy public persona for you, and even hire a good looking stand-in (think Matthew Barney or Bjork) should your newly found professional art lifestyle cause you to add on some unsightly pounds. We'll select the central theme of your life's work (based on our in-house marketing studies), and begin cranking out the "pieces" proper.

We'll come up with the ideas, implement them, pimp them around to galleries, and even hire degreed art critics to write obtuse essays about your work that reference at least five 20th century french philosophers, and of course McLuhan (out of context).

You didn't get into this artmtaking thing to explore existence or get your hands dirty with actual media. You don't really even want to say anything in particular. You just want to say it loudly where everyone can hear it. We feel you, dog. You're our kind of contemporary artist.

INSTRUCTIONS:
Don't call us, we'll call you. We're not looking for talent (we got the talent); we're just looking for someone willing to "sell their soul 4 rock n' roll," as the saying goes. We'll get 85% of all profits, and we'll have the option to use your (our) brand in the Japanese toy and t-shirt market. You'll get your 15 minutes, and then some! Pleased to meet you. Hope you guessed my name (no, not charles saatchi, the other one).

+++++++++++++++++++++


Leonardo wrote:

> Readme 100 software art factory presents
>
> Open Call for Proposals
> Get your Software Art Piece Done for Free
> OUTSOURCE ME!
> http://outsource.solaas.com.ar
>
> Have you ever dreamt of having a piece of software art (1) you could
> call truly yours? Or had the feeling that most media art is dull, and
> that you could do it better? Or had a marvelous idea you could not
> realize for lack of time, commitment or expertise?
> Well, your chance has come.
>
> No need to mess around with abstruse programs or bother with dreary
> code. The world is full of people willing to do the hard work for you.
> That’s what outsourcing is about. Those are the rules of the global
> electronic market.
>
> It doesn’t cost much. Actually, just for this time it will cost you
> nothing.
>
> Leonardo Solaas, an Argentinean programmer and net artist, suggests
> reversing the rules: only once it is not the programmer who is chosen
> by the employer but it is the employer who is chosen by the
> programmer. He is looking for someone to tell him what to do, thus
> himself outsourcing the task of getting an idea.
> Submit yours! Become his boss! Submit your ideas at
> http://outsource.solaas.com.ar till October 3rd, and you could be the
> lucky winner of a possibility to implement YOUR piece of software
> art.
> If Leonardo chooses your concept, he will become your outsourced
> Contractor for
> this work, and you will be his Employer.
>
> You could learn about Leonardo’s skills and interests (at
> http://solaas.com.ar/outsource/leonardo) to figure out whether your
> proposal would fit his experience.
>
> All this is made possible by Readme 100 Temporary Software Art Factory
> (2) (a.k.a. the MetaEmployer). The resulting piece will be presented
> at a festival taking place on November 4-5, 2005, in the State and
> City Library of Dortmund, Germany.
> _____________________________
>
> 1. For those who are not sure what software art is, please, learn more
> at http://runme.org/faq.tt2
> 2. http://readme.runme.org

Lee Wells Sept. 20 2005 14:13Reply

Wow you are really out of control.
Take a chill pill and don

Miklos Legrady Sept. 20 2005 15:21Reply

>
>the idea that you can always hire someone to do the "boring part" of
>the work is a romantic idea.


actually it's post-modernist. (See Kostabi)




Miklos Legrady
310 Bathurst st.
Toronto ON.
M5T 2S3
416-203-1846
647-292-1846
http://www.mikidot.com

Rob Myers Sept. 20 2005 15:59Reply

On 20 Sep 2005, at 22:24, miklos@sympatico.ca wrote:

>> the idea that you can always hire someone to do the "boring part" of
>> the work is a romantic idea.
>
> actually it's post-modernist. (See Kostabi)

Postmodernism is Romantic.

- Rob

Jim Andrews Sept. 20 2005 16:35Reply

> come on, lee, do you think that the mouse is just another kind of brush?
> i'm sure you don't.
> so let's put this way:
> it is impossible to talk about digital art without understanding that
> *it is digital* and this means: to be conscious that we work not just
> with code – what is a too broad term and not a concept – but with
> programming languages.
> and language is a virus (ins't it?)
> the idea that you can always hire someone to do the "boring part" of
> the work is a romantic idea. inspiration does not match with media
> creation. otherwise we will bet on tecnoxamanism…

well said, giselle.

could you please expand on your last sentence? why is it that "otherwise we
will bet on" technoshamanism? what is it and why do we otherwise bet on it?

"inspiration does not match with media creation". in writing, much changes
in the process of writing. the most boring things to write (and read) are
pre-configured ideas that you simply write out. same with working in other
arts. Because so much happens in the act of writing or painting, ie, working
through the ideas and implications and previously unrealized associations
and consequences of the initial impetus. through the process of
creation/writing/whatever. in my experience, this is also true of writing
computer programs as works of art.

some programmers who work for artists treat the artist like any other sort
of client, ie, give them what they want, don't be too critical, they're
paying the bill. usually this results in bad art. or it doesn't 'work for
me', anyway. then again, i'm out of work!

very interesting to read in this thread some thoughts and feelings on the
tensions of this relation. hopefully it allows both artist and
programmer–and programmer-artist–to see personal situations reflected in
general shapes that affect art and life–and jobs, working relations–and
the notion of an art of programming beyond Knuth's conception of it.

ja
http://vispo.com

Jim Andrews Sept. 20 2005 17:38Reply

> jim.
> so good to restart
> (off topic: the cows – not ours – but those of the cow parade – are
> all around sao paulo! a moooo for you)

a moooo to you too, giselle. by the way, our cows have recently been allowed
to travel to the USA (without passports). I think the general recognition is
that there are mad cows on both sides of the border, at this point. please
give one of the sao paulo cows a pet for me.

> btw:
> technoshamanism: (Sorry for the "x". it's portuenglish….)

i think i prefer "tecnoxamanism". but what is it?

> this is the hype. the trend and i can't stand trendies and trendism.
> following them, you "receive" your "to_do list".
> give me a break. i don't. i work too hard and i do not receive
> anything and because of this i can not just tell someone to do this
> and that for tomorrow. i think machines are real participants, i
> believe (in) error messages, i trust computers and their indifference
> to my targets and passions.
> so tecnoshamanism, the global cortex, the cyberthing does not make
> sense for me (and for my senses)

very interesting. so you do not seek to control or stifle the agency of
others–or the computer–but are interested in what happens in a more open
philosophy. that is wise and applicable to many things from art to relations
with people–and computers.

ja

> in what concerns the other question, i will quote Flusser again and
> agree with you:
> we are conditioned by our apparatus.

Robert Praxmarer Sept. 21 2005 01:21Reply

well some years ago I would have reacted the same way I guess
now I don't care so much anymore, it's true that you can outsource everything but you loose control on the same time, and time is the key for the whole problem.
computer based artworks are complex so to develop them it cost a lot of time (for the coder) but on the other hand you have to be quick because someone else could finish a stupid google art work before you. most of the people have the same ideas in electronic art, I don't exclude myself, I am always astonished if I go to a festival and see ideas, I once had, realised.
as there are so many and the trends are changing so fast there are no real stars in tech art, which somehow is good and somehow not. it's good because everyone involved contributes his vision of what art and technology should be or could be so diversity is always a good thing to have, but as there are no stars, and therefore no money involved it's a very hard task to sustain yourself with media art, festivals don't pay fees, the big ones don't even pay flights or accomondation because you can be lucky to be in a delicate international competition.
and the other side is the traditional art market which is undereducated in terms of media art and much too conservative for this kind of art, so computer artists will end up to make interactive furniture for snoop doggy dog and brittney spears and when mtv comes to their home, an interactive portrait of snoop will freestyle rap with him.
snoop: hip
computer portrait: ho
snoop: with the
computer portait: flow

so finish up with wittgenstein:
the limits of my language means the limits of my world

and ideas have so many people, I think you have to invest time to learn to realise them yourself and then if you have understood what you are doing then u can start to outsource, so a damien hurst or matthew barney could'nt make this work alone, but they have proven beforehand that they understand what they are doing.

anyway a discussion I had with myself and many others which could be held endless.
greetings,
robert praxmarer


wrote:

>
> This kind of shit really pisses me off. I'm so sick of these design
> and technology "artists" who have no idea how to do anything, and just
> come up with ideas for people who did spend years learning how code.
>
> "No need to mess around with abstruse programs or bother with
> dreary code. The world is full of people willing to do the hard work
> for you."
>
> What the fuck? Why are you doing this in the first place if you
> don't take any interest in code?
>
> Somehow people think that if they went to art school they have some
> kind of revolutionary ideas that every programmer is just dying to go
> and be their code monkey for. Because hey, they're programmers, you
> know.. people who live to write code for brilliant old you and have no
> creative ideas of their own.
>
> I cant quite express what I feel when I see projects that are
> nothing but a bunch of mockups because the person who came up with it
> has no idea how to do anything. I can come up with a million brilliant
> ideas right here and now.. Hey, let's make this thing that uses google
> to build a complete map of human consciousness… great! Why don't I
> outsource it to someone who's actually brilliant, so I can really call
> it my own.
>
> Assholes.

Robert Praxmarer Sept. 21 2005 01:29Reply

wrote:

>
> This kind of shit really pisses me off. I'm so sick of these design
> and technology "artists" who have no idea how to do anything, and just
> come up with ideas for people who did spend years learning how code.
>
> "No need to mess around with abstruse programs or bother with
> dreary code. The world is full of people willing to do the hard work
> for you."
>
> What the fuck? Why are you doing this in the first place if you
> don't take any interest in code?
>
> Somehow people think that if they went to art school they have some
> kind of revolutionary ideas that every programmer is just dying to go
> and be their code monkey for. Because hey, they're programmers, you
> know.. people who live to write code for brilliant old you and have no
> creative ideas of their own.
>
> I cant quite express what I feel when I see projects that are
> nothing but a bunch of mockups because the person who came up with it
> has no idea how to do anything. I can come up with a million brilliant
> ideas right here and now.. Hey, let's make this thing that uses google
> to build a complete map of human consciousness… great! Why don't I
> outsource it to someone who's actually brilliant, so I can really call
> it my own.
>
> Assholes.

Robert Praxmarer Sept. 21 2005 01:33Reply

well some years ago I would have reacted the same way I guess
now I don't care so much anymore, it's true that you can outsource everything but you loose control on the same time, and time is the key for the whole problem.
computer based artworks are complex so to develop them it cost a lot of time (for the coder) but on the other hand you have to be quick because someone else could finish a stupid google art work before you. most of the people have the same ideas in electronic art, I don't exclude myself, I am always astonished if I go to a festival and see ideas, I once had, realised.
as there are so many and the trends are changing so fast there are no real stars in tech art, which somehow is good and somehow not. it's good because everyone involved contributes his vision of what art and technology should be or could be so diversity is always a good thing to have, but as there are no stars, and therefore no money involved it's a very hard task to sustain yourself with media art, festivals don't pay fees, the big ones don't even pay flights or accomondation because you can be lucky to be in a delicate international competition.
and the other side is the traditional art market which is undereducated in terms of media art and much too conservative for this kind of art, so computer artists will end up to make interactive furniture for snoop doggy dog and brittney spears and when mtv comes to their home, an interactive portrait of snoop will freestyle rap with him.
snoop: hip
computer portrait: ho
snoop: with the
computer portait: flow

so finish up with wittgenstein:
the limits of my language means the limits of my world

and ideas have so many people, I think you have to invest time to learn to realise them yourself and then if you have understood what you are doing then u can start to outsource, so a damien hurst or matthew barney could'nt make this work alone, but they have proven beforehand that they understand what they are doing.

anyway this discussion I had with myself and many others for years it's endless, and everyone has a different basis.
greetings,
robert praxmarer


wrote:

>
> This kind of shit really pisses me off. I'm so sick of these design
> and technology "artists" who have no idea how to do anything, and just
> come up with ideas for people who did spend years learning how code.
>
> "No need to mess around with abstruse programs or bother with
> dreary code. The world is full of people willing to do the hard work
> for you."
>
> What the fuck? Why are you doing this in the first place if you
> don't take any interest in code?
>
> Somehow people think that if they went to art school they have some
> kind of revolutionary ideas that every programmer is just dying to go
> and be their code monkey for. Because hey, they're programmers, you
> know.. people who live to write code for brilliant old you and have no
> creative ideas of their own.
>
> I cant quite express what I feel when I see projects that are
> nothing but a bunch of mockups because the person who came up with it
> has no idea how to do anything. I can come up with a million brilliant
> ideas right here and now.. Hey, let's make this thing that uses google
> to build a complete map of human consciousness… great! Why don't I
> outsource it to someone who's actually brilliant, so I can really call
> it my own.
>
> Assholes.

Haim Sept. 21 2005 07:37Reply

Old painters like Leonardo or Michelangelo had a whole team of apprentices
working for them; a sculptor like Calder had his big metallic artworks
assembled and soldered not far away from where i am writing, in a factory near
Tours. On the other side they understood perfectly what was going on in the
process of the making and were able to control and manage it efficiently.
So, does someone need be code literate to do computer art? Or simply computer
literate? I think it is all about control, the control you keep or not on the
making of your artwork. Even with pieces of software that don't need
code-writing, like Photoshop or Flash (you can write code in Flash, i know, but
it is not a requisite to use it), you cannot simply go and say, i'd like it to
be like this and like that, more green here, this faster and written bigger,
and so forth and so on; if you don't know your tool, you lose control on your
artwork. It is in the knowledge and the experience of the creating process that
happens the making of the artwork. There are no transcendental ideas just
waiting for brilliant minds to pick them up and then henchmen silently doing
the dirty part of the job. Even conceptual art needed some kind of concrete
expression. Furthermore, I think that an honest technical knowledge of your
tool allows for the development of new projects; knowing what it is all about
avoids getting "brilliant" ideas that are very heavy in terms of cost of time,
and whose aim could be reached in a far cheaper way.
So, of course i am not against collaborative art-making, each one contributing
their skills. But if i had THE idea (is there such a thing?) and if i hired
someone else to do it, i would feel awkward to put only my name on it.
More and more pieces of software are becoming user-friendly, writing the code
for you. Of course you still have to learn how to use the program. But, hey,
who said it was easy to become an artist?

_________cyrill duneau—dolmensniper

Robert Praxmarer Sept. 24 2005 19:44Reply

wrote:

>
> This kind of shit really pisses me off. I'm so sick of these design
> and technology "artists" who have no idea how to do anything, and just
> come up with ideas for people who did spend years learning how code.
>
> "No need to mess around with abstruse programs or bother with
> dreary code. The world is full of people willing to do the hard work
> for you."
>
> What the fuck? Why are you doing this in the first place if you
> don't take any interest in code?
>
> Somehow people think that if they went to art school they have some
> kind of revolutionary ideas that every programmer is just dying to go
> and be their code monkey for. Because hey, they're programmers, you
> know.. people who live to write code for brilliant old you and have no
> creative ideas of their own.
>
> I cant quite express what I feel when I see projects that are
> nothing but a bunch of mockups because the person who came up with it
> has no idea how to do anything. I can come up with a million brilliant
> ideas right here and now.. Hey, let's make this thing that uses google
> to build a complete map of human consciousness… great! Why don't I
> outsource it to someone who's actually brilliant, so I can really call
> it my own.
>
> Assholes.
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