<More net art along the same lines> Sure rathergood.com is funny, but art! -give me a break -it's light entertainment, as is the Guthrie parody which is mildly amusing but totally anodyne. michael
i'm not going to argue what is or isn't art - whoops i mean "Art" - and i wish i could make that "A" really huge. i came across it and i thought it was strange and funny - that's about it.
Michael Szpakowski wrote:
> <More net art along the same lines> > Sure rathergood.com is funny, but art! -give me a > break -it's light entertainment, as is the Guthrie > parody which is mildly amusing but totally anodyne. > michael > > > > — Jason Van Anden <[email protected]> wrote: > > mark, > > > > One of the funniest things I have seen in a long > > time. > > > > More net art along the same lines here: > > http://www.plur.net/thisland.html > > > > Jason Van Anden > > www.smileproject.com > > > > mark cooley wrote: > > > http://www.rathergood.com/moon_song/ > > + > > -> post: [email protected] > > -> questions: [email protected] > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is > > open to non-members > > + > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set > > out in the > > Membership Agreement available online at > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Sorry, Mark, if I came over as po faced & somewaht humourless -I didn't mean to. I do think its funny -and I do think people shouldn't fear posting light and amusing stuff here -one of Rhizome's charms is the breadth of stuff posted. I was making a perhaps rather pedantic, but in my view none the less important, point about whether it constitues art or not. This is not only a theoretical but a practical issue for me -I taught a kind of "introduction to net.art" course to some 2nd year undergraduates this last year, most of them hadn't even thought of the idea that you *could* do art on the net ( it was a traditional art & design course with previously very little digital stuff on it) and many of them got really stuck on rathergood.com - I wanted them to look further and broader and at the start I had to argue quite hard that there was more to it than admittedly deft and amusing animations. regards michael
— mark cooley <[email protected]> wrote: > i'm not going to argue what is or isn't art - whoops > i mean "Art" - and i wish i could make that "A" > really huge. i came across it and i thought it was > strange and funny - that's about it. > > > Michael Szpakowski wrote: > > > <More net art along the same lines> > > Sure rathergood.com is funny, but art! -give me a > > break -it's light entertainment, as is the > Guthrie > > parody which is mildly amusing but totally > anodyne. > > michael > > > > > > > > — Jason Van Anden <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > mark, > > > > > > One of the funniest things I have seen in a long > > > time. > > > > > > More net art along the same lines here: > > > http://www.plur.net/thisland.html > > > > > > Jason Van Anden > > > www.smileproject.com > > > > > > mark cooley wrote: > > > > http://www.rathergood.com/moon_song/ > > > + > > > -> post: [email protected] > > > -> questions: [email protected] > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: > > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support > > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is > > > open to non-members > > > + > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms > set > > > out in the > > > Membership Agreement available online at > > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other > providers! > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > + > -> post: [email protected] > -> questions: [email protected] > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is > open to non-members > + > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set > out in the > Membership Agreement available online at > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php >
I'm with you - except that I am curious about the current definition of the 'A' word. I am super glad you posted "we like the moon". I cannot think of anything with a captial A recently that has had the same impact on my emotions (except the Guthrie thing). Following is a response I prepared for Michael a couple of days ago, butit did not post for some reason.
Michael,
Unfortunately this begs the question, what is the (or your) definition of 'net art'? I am going to guess that this isn't the first time this topic has been brought up here, so if someone can point me in the direction of a good succinct definition, that would be super.
Both works had an impact on me conceptually, visually and emotionally - expectations that I have of any artworks (net or not) that more often than not go unfulfilled (no offense to the entire community). This is the first time I have seen "Rather Good", and in the context of it being presented on Rhizome, I looked at it as virtual rock band. In this respect, I found it conceptually interesting (no need for an actual band, in fact kind of a virtual punk anti-band), visually more substantial than the majority of experimental work I have found online, and emotionally, well I laugh every time I reflect on it - for reasons beyond my comprehension (sublime?). As for the Guthrie parody, in contrast to a lot of the heavily partisan attempts of art activism online, I saw it as a well produced equalizer (interesting tact) while being visually sucessful, and my emotional response (conflicted laughter) has caused it to replay over and over again in my head since watching it. This is not something I can that recent 'net art' works have succeeded in doing for me in recent memory.
> i'm not going to argue what is or isn't art - whoops i mean "Art" - > and i wish i could make that "A" really huge. i came across it and i > thought it was strange and funny - that's about it. > > > Michael Szpakowski wrote: > > > <More net art along the same lines> > > Sure rathergood.com is funny, but art! -give me a > > break -it's light entertainment, as is the Guthrie > > parody which is mildly amusing but totally anodyne. > > michael
i certainly understand the teaching thing - i've experienced similiar situations, and it can be very frustrating as you know. whether teaching net art or painting or whatever there are always those who come in with H.R. Giger or Dali or rathergood.com or southpark or some other fixation on day one, and it's a constant battle to get them to expand their view (which occasionally works both ways i have to admit). i don't like it but sometimes i just go to the elitist stance (academically trained artists generally are pretty good at this) and dismiss their fixations because there is so much more "important" work being done out there. i think it's a poor response on my part though because at the end of the day i really don't care about teaching "The Universal Principles of Art" or even asking "What is Art?" (in a timeless sense). i don't even believe in those things beyond the fact that they exist as myths. For me, "Art" (as in "The History of Art) has always been created by patrons who see their own values re-presented visually - of course these representations are mistaken for "Universal Expressions of the Humman Condition" and so on. And so the history of an elite western patronage becomes the "History of Art" which is supposed to speak to all people everywhere for all time. it's all somewhat colonial to me and so i try to resist. generally, i find that the elitist stuff, with me, shows my unwillingness or inability to ask the proper questions of the student, or of the work, or of myself. Usually, i try to shift the question in my mind from "is it art?" to "what (and who) does the work represent, and how?" Then we begin to move from studying Art to studying visual culture.
Michael Szpakowski wrote:
> Sorry, Mark, if I came over as po faced & somewaht > humourless -I didn't mean to. > I do think its funny -and I do think people shouldn't > fear posting light and amusing stuff here -one of > Rhizome's charms is the breadth of stuff posted. > I was making a perhaps rather pedantic, but in my view > none the less important, point about whether it > constitues art or not. > This is not only a theoretical but a practical issue > for me -I taught a kind of "introduction to net.art" > course to some 2nd year undergraduates this last year, > most of them hadn't even thought of the idea that you > *could* do art on the net ( it was a traditional art & > design course with previously very little digital > stuff on it) and many of them got really stuck on > rathergood.com - I wanted them to look further and > broader and at the start I had to argue quite hard > that there was more to it than admittedly deft and > amusing animations. > regards > michael > > — mark cooley <[email protected]> wrote: > > i'm not going to argue what is or isn't art - whoops > > i mean "Art" - and i wish i could make that "A" > > really huge. i came across it and i thought it was > > strange and funny - that's about it. > > > > > > Michael Szpakowski wrote: > > > > > <More net art along the same lines> > > > Sure rathergood.com is funny, but art! -give me a > > > break -it's light entertainment, as is the > > Guthrie > > > parody which is mildly amusing but totally > > anodyne. > > > michael > > > > > > > > > > > > — Jason Van Anden <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > mark, > > > > > > > > One of the funniest things I have seen in a long > > > > time. > > > > > > > > More net art along the same lines here: > > > > http://www.plur.net/thisland.html > > > > > > > > Jason Van Anden > > > > www.smileproject.com > > > > > > > > mark cooley wrote: > > > > > http://www.rathergood.com/moon_song/ > > > > + > > > > -> post: [email protected] > > > > -> questions: [email protected] > > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: > > > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz > > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support > > > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is > > > > open to non-members > > > > + > > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms > > set > > > > out in the > > > > Membership Agreement available online at > > > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other > > providers! > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > + > > -> post: [email protected] > > -> questions: [email protected] > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is > > open to non-members > > + > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set > > out in the > > Membership Agreement available online at > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ >
Comments
mark,
One of the funniest things I have seen in a long time.
More net art along the same lines here:
http://www.plur.net/thisland.html
Jason Van Anden
www.smileproject.com
mark cooley wrote:
> http://www.rathergood.com/moon_song/
<More net art along the same lines>
Sure rathergood.com is funny, but art! -give me a
break -it's light entertainment, as is the Guthrie
parody which is mildly amusing but totally anodyne.
michael
— Jason Van Anden <[email protected]> wrote:
> mark,
>
> One of the funniest things I have seen in a long
> time.
>
> More net art along the same lines here:
> http://www.plur.net/thisland.html
>
> Jason Van Anden
> www.smileproject.com
>
> mark cooley wrote:
> > http://www.rathergood.com/moon_song/
> +
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
i'm not going to argue what is or isn't art - whoops i mean "Art" - and i wish i could make that "A" really huge. i came across it and i thought it was strange and funny - that's about it.
Michael Szpakowski wrote:
> <More net art along the same lines>
> Sure rathergood.com is funny, but art! -give me a
> break -it's light entertainment, as is the Guthrie
> parody which is mildly amusing but totally anodyne.
> michael
>
>
>
> — Jason Van Anden <[email protected]> wrote:
> > mark,
> >
> > One of the funniest things I have seen in a long
> > time.
> >
> > More net art along the same lines here:
> > http://www.plur.net/thisland.html
> >
> > Jason Van Anden
> > www.smileproject.com
> >
> > mark cooley wrote:
> > > http://www.rathergood.com/moon_song/
> > +
> > -> post: [email protected]
> > -> questions: [email protected]
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> > open to non-members
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> > out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
> > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Sorry, Mark, if I came over as po faced & somewaht
humourless -I didn't mean to.
I do think its funny -and I do think people shouldn't
fear posting light and amusing stuff here -one of
Rhizome's charms is the breadth of stuff posted.
I was making a perhaps rather pedantic, but in my view
none the less important, point about whether it
constitues art or not.
This is not only a theoretical but a practical issue
for me -I taught a kind of "introduction to net.art"
course to some 2nd year undergraduates this last year,
most of them hadn't even thought of the idea that you
*could* do art on the net ( it was a traditional art &
design course with previously very little digital
stuff on it) and many of them got really stuck on
rathergood.com - I wanted them to look further and
broader and at the start I had to argue quite hard
that there was more to it than admittedly deft and
amusing animations.
regards
michael
— mark cooley <[email protected]> wrote:
> i'm not going to argue what is or isn't art - whoops
> i mean "Art" - and i wish i could make that "A"
> really huge. i came across it and i thought it was
> strange and funny - that's about it.
>
>
> Michael Szpakowski wrote:
>
> > <More net art along the same lines>
> > Sure rathergood.com is funny, but art! -give me a
> > break -it's light entertainment, as is the
> Guthrie
> > parody which is mildly amusing but totally
> anodyne.
> > michael
> >
> >
> >
> > — Jason Van Anden <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > > mark,
> > >
> > > One of the funniest things I have seen in a long
> > > time.
> > >
> > > More net art along the same lines here:
> > > http://www.plur.net/thisland.html
> > >
> > > Jason Van Anden
> > > www.smileproject.com
> > >
> > > mark cooley wrote:
> > > > http://www.rathergood.com/moon_song/
> > > +
> > > -> post: [email protected]
> > > -> questions: [email protected]
> > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> > > open to non-members
> > > +
> > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set
> > > out in the
> > > Membership Agreement available online at
> > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other
> providers!
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> +
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign!
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/
Mark,
I'm with you - except that I am curious about the current definition of the 'A' word. I am super glad you posted "we like the moon". I cannot think of anything with a captial A recently that has had the same impact on my emotions (except the Guthrie thing). Following is a response I prepared for Michael a couple of days ago, butit did not post for some reason.
Michael,
Unfortunately this begs the question, what is the (or your) definition of 'net art'? I am going to guess that this isn't the first time this topic has been brought up here, so if someone can point me in the direction of a good succinct definition, that would be super.
Both works had an impact on me conceptually, visually and emotionally - expectations that I have of any artworks (net or not) that more often than not go unfulfilled (no offense to the entire community). This is the first time I have seen "Rather Good", and in the context of it being presented on Rhizome, I looked at it as virtual rock band. In this respect, I found it conceptually interesting (no need for an actual band, in fact kind of a virtual punk anti-band), visually more substantial than the majority of experimental work I have found online, and emotionally, well I laugh every time I reflect on it - for reasons beyond my comprehension (sublime?). As for the Guthrie parody, in contrast to a lot of the heavily partisan attempts of art activism online, I saw it as a well produced equalizer (interesting tact) while being visually sucessful, and my emotional response (conflicted laughter) has caused it to replay over and over again in my head since watching it. This is not something I can that recent 'net art' works have succeeded in doing for me in recent memory.
Jason Van Anden
www.smileproject.com
mark cooley wrote:
> i'm not going to argue what is or isn't art - whoops i mean "Art" -
> and i wish i could make that "A" really huge. i came across it and i
> thought it was strange and funny - that's about it.
>
>
> Michael Szpakowski wrote:
>
> > <More net art along the same lines>
> > Sure rathergood.com is funny, but art! -give me a
> > break -it's light entertainment, as is the Guthrie
> > parody which is mildly amusing but totally anodyne.
> > michael
Michael
i certainly understand the teaching thing - i've experienced similiar situations, and it can be very frustrating as you know. whether teaching net art or painting or whatever there are always those who come in with H.R. Giger or Dali or rathergood.com or southpark or some other fixation on day one, and it's a constant battle to get them to expand their view (which occasionally works both ways i have to admit). i don't like it but sometimes i just go to the elitist stance (academically trained artists generally are pretty good at this) and dismiss their fixations because there is so much more "important" work being done out there. i think it's a poor response on my part though because at the end of the day i really don't care about teaching "The Universal Principles of Art" or even asking "What is Art?" (in a timeless sense). i don't even believe in those things beyond the fact that they exist as myths. For me, "Art" (as in "The History of Art) has always been created by patrons who see their own values re-presented visually - of course these representations are mistaken for "Universal Expressions of the Humman Condition" and so on. And so the history of an elite western patronage becomes the "History of Art" which is supposed to speak to all people everywhere for all time. it's all somewhat colonial to me and so i try to resist. generally, i find that the elitist stuff, with me, shows my unwillingness or inability to ask the proper questions of the student, or of the work, or of myself. Usually, i try to shift the question in my mind from "is it art?" to "what (and who) does the work represent, and how?" Then we begin to move from studying Art to studying visual culture.
Michael Szpakowski wrote:
> Sorry, Mark, if I came over as po faced & somewaht
> humourless -I didn't mean to.
> I do think its funny -and I do think people shouldn't
> fear posting light and amusing stuff here -one of
> Rhizome's charms is the breadth of stuff posted.
> I was making a perhaps rather pedantic, but in my view
> none the less important, point about whether it
> constitues art or not.
> This is not only a theoretical but a practical issue
> for me -I taught a kind of "introduction to net.art"
> course to some 2nd year undergraduates this last year,
> most of them hadn't even thought of the idea that you
> *could* do art on the net ( it was a traditional art &
> design course with previously very little digital
> stuff on it) and many of them got really stuck on
> rathergood.com - I wanted them to look further and
> broader and at the start I had to argue quite hard
> that there was more to it than admittedly deft and
> amusing animations.
> regards
> michael
>
> — mark cooley <[email protected]> wrote:
> > i'm not going to argue what is or isn't art - whoops
> > i mean "Art" - and i wish i could make that "A"
> > really huge. i came across it and i thought it was
> > strange and funny - that's about it.
> >
> >
> > Michael Szpakowski wrote:
> >
> > > <More net art along the same lines>
> > > Sure rathergood.com is funny, but art! -give me a
> > > break -it's light entertainment, as is the
> > Guthrie
> > > parody which is mildly amusing but totally
> > anodyne.
> > > michael
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > — Jason Van Anden <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > > mark,
> > > >
> > > > One of the funniest things I have seen in a long
> > > > time.
> > > >
> > > > More net art along the same lines here:
> > > > http://www.plur.net/thisland.html
> > > >
> > > > Jason Van Anden
> > > > www.smileproject.com
> > > >
> > > > mark cooley wrote:
> > > > > http://www.rathergood.com/moon_song/
> > > > +
> > > > -> post: [email protected]
> > > > -> questions: [email protected]
> > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> > > > open to non-members
> > > > +
> > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> > set
> > > > out in the
> > > > Membership Agreement available online at
> > > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other
> > providers!
> > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> > +
> > -> post: [email protected]
> > -> questions: [email protected]
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> > open to non-members
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> > out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
> > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign!
> http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/
>
I hate the moon…
it blocks my view
i hate the moon
especially when it's new
then you can't see it
but i can tell you any how…
i'd rather see than be it!
a little :-) 4 art.
AE04
atomicelroy.com
artjester inc.