software art and flash art

How about we talk about good playstation commercials?

-e.


—– Original Message —–
From: "Jim Andrews" <[email protected]>
To: "List@Rhizome. Org" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:20 AM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: software art and flash art


> have been thinking about the good flash work i've seen.
>
> in addition to the work i've sent links to, i think of work by reiner
strasser, regina celia
> pinto, ana maria uribe, peter howard, mez, and some others. and there's
some interesting work at
> born magazine, for instance.
>
> and this work generally has no aspiration to be an art app, to define/push
the edge of the art
> app. when the flash work i've seen has an edge, its edge is elsewhere.
often the edge is more
> related to the intersection of, say, writing or poetry and the digital. or
other arts and the
> digital. or journalism and the digital. not really a 'software art' edge,
which has more to do
> with defining the edge of the art app. 'software art' puts a stress on the
software. on the
> programming. on the role of programming. whereas most of the good flash
work i've seen does not.
>
> it stresses, instead, the synthesis of arts, the dipping of the arts into
the digital flux, and
> its anchors/reference points are generally art prior to the digital.
>
> sound reasonable?
>
> ja
> http://vispo.com
>
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

…or cool tatoos?

On Tuesday 01 July 2003 16:16, Eryk Salvaggio wrote:
> How about we talk about good playstation commercials?
>
> -e.
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: "Jim Andrews" <[email protected]>
> To: "List@Rhizome. Org" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:20 AM
> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: software art and flash art
>
> > have been thinking about the good flash work i've seen.
> >
> > in addition to the work i've sent links to, i think of work by reiner
>
> strasser, regina celia
>
> > pinto, ana maria uribe, peter howard, mez, and some others. and there's
>
> some interesting work at
>
> > born magazine, for instance.
> >
> > and this work generally has no aspiration to be an art app, to
> > define/push
>
> the edge of the art
>
> > app. when the flash work i've seen has an edge, its edge is elsewhere.
>
> often the edge is more
>
> > related to the intersection of, say, writing or poetry and the digital.
> > or
>
> other arts and the
>
> > digital. or journalism and the digital. not really a 'software art' edge,
>
> which has more to do
>
> > with defining the edge of the art app. 'software art' puts a stress on
> > the
>
> software. on the
>
> > programming. on the role of programming. whereas most of the good flash
>
> work i've seen does not.
>
> > it stresses, instead, the synthesis of arts, the dipping of the arts into
>
> the digital flux, and
>
> > its anchors/reference points are generally art prior to the digital.
> >
> > sound reasonable?
> >
> > ja
> > http://vispo.com
> >
> >
> > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > -> post: [email protected]
> > -> questions: [email protected]
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

–
Pall Thayer
artist/teacher
http://www.this.is/pallit
http://www.this.is/isjs
http://www.this.is/harmony
http://130.208.220.190/panse

Cool "Digital" Tattoos?

-e.

—– Original Message —–
From: "Pall Thayer" <[email protected]>
To: "Eryk Salvaggio" <[email protected]>; "Jim Andrews" <[email protected]>;
"List@Rhizome. Org" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: software art and flash art


> …or cool tatoos?
>
> On Tuesday 01 July 2003 16:16, Eryk Salvaggio wrote:
> > How about we talk about good playstation commercials?
> >
> > -e.
> >
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: "Jim Andrews" <[email protected]>
> > To: "List@Rhizome. Org" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:20 AM
> > Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: software art and flash art
> >
> > > have been thinking about the good flash work i've seen.
> > >
> > > in addition to the work i've sent links to, i think of work by reiner
> >
> > strasser, regina celia
> >
> > > pinto, ana maria uribe, peter howard, mez, and some others. and
there's
> >
> > some interesting work at
> >
> > > born magazine, for instance.
> > >
> > > and this work generally has no aspiration to be an art app, to
> > > define/push
> >
> > the edge of the art
> >
> > > app. when the flash work i've seen has an edge, its edge is elsewhere.
> >
> > often the edge is more
> >
> > > related to the intersection of, say, writing or poetry and the
digital.
> > > or
> >
> > other arts and the
> >
> > > digital. or journalism and the digital. not really a 'software art'
edge,
> >
> > which has more to do
> >
> > > with defining the edge of the art app. 'software art' puts a stress on
> > > the
> >
> > software. on the
> >
> > > programming. on the role of programming. whereas most of the good
flash
> >
> > work i've seen does not.
> >
> > > it stresses, instead, the synthesis of arts, the dipping of the arts
into
> >
> > the digital flux, and
> >
> > > its anchors/reference points are generally art prior to the digital.
> > >
> > > sound reasonable?
> > >
> > > ja
> > > http://vispo.com
> > >
> > >
> > > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > > -> post: [email protected]
> > > -> questions: [email protected]
> > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > > +
> > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > > Membership Agreement available online at
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
> > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > -> post: [email protected]
> > -> questions: [email protected]
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> –
> Pall Thayer
> artist/teacher
> http://www.this.is/pallit
> http://www.this.is/isjs
> http://www.this.is/harmony
> http://130.208.220.190/panse
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

> How about we talk about good playstation commercials?

or art ads/self promotion?

that's a bit closer to home, isn't it?

ja

At 03:20 AM 1/07/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>have been thinking about the good flash work i've seen.
>
>in addition to the work i've sent links to, i think of work by reiner
>strasser, regina celia
>pinto, ana maria uribe, peter howard, mez, and some others. and there's
>some interesting work at
>born magazine, for instance.

thx 4 the n.clusion, jim. i've been thinking about ur criterion for
referencing the terms "good" + "great"…could u say more about these purrhaps?

>and this work generally has no aspiration to be an art app, to define/push
>the edge of the art
>app.

….+ if it does this may lie in a type o conceptual latency………

>when the flash work i've seen has an edge, its edge is elsewhere. often
>the edge is more
>related to the intersection of, say, writing or poetry and the digital. or
>other arts and the
>digital. or journalism and the digital. not really a 'software art' edge,
>which has more to do
>with defining the edge of the art app. 'software art' puts a stress on the
>software. on the
>programming. on the role of programming. whereas most of the good flash
>work i've seen does not.


fair enuff.

jim, wot wood ur dream flash wurk n.tail?


>it stresses, instead, the synthesis of arts, the dipping of the arts into
>the digital flux, and
>its anchors/reference points are generally art prior to the digital.
>
>sound reasonable?

does n.deedy.


mez




- pro][rating][.lucid.txt
-
-

http://www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker
http://www.livejournal.com/users/netwurker/
_
_cr[xxx]oss ova.ring.

I think Oro Bouros, famous Outsider Net.Artist, once said something about
how the best net.artists never mention thier work to anyone. In fact, they
might never even bother to put it online. That's how good it is.

-e.




—– Original Message —–
From: "Jim Andrews" <[email protected]>
To: "List@Rhizome. Org" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:06 PM
Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: software art and flash art


>
> > How about we talk about good playstation commercials?
>
> or art ads/self promotion?
>
> that's a bit closer to home, isn't it?
>
> ja
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

Did you read that in 'How to create a net.art star?'

No, i recall Oro Bouros from a previous few posts of yours, Eryk, come to think of it.

He was afraid of art scenes, if I recall correctly, and judged them from afar.

Seriously though, Eryk, I read that you don't like Flash/Shockwave work.

Don't pull an Oro B and judge from afar.

ja

> I think Oro Bouros, famous Outsider Net.Artist, once said something about
> how the best net.artists never mention thier work to anyone. In fact, they
> might never even bother to put it online. That's how good it is.
>
> -e.

> > > How about we talk about good playstation commercials?
> >
> > or art ads/self promotion?
> >
> > that's a bit closer to home, isn't it?
> >
> > ja



.

>i've been thinking about ur criterion for
> referencing the terms "good" + "great"…could u say more about these purrhaps?

ha. let's get out the meanometer emometer and undecidable proposition detector. it is a figment
of one's imagination, of course. let's be clear about that.

what rocks your world. what has the most significant meaning or song or narrative or contextual
nexus or verbo-voco-visuo-tacti-tocktoe. what brings you back. what brings you home. what takes
you away. what bumps you up. what you see as work that is relevant widely, or wider than a small
group, work that you see as significant international art. what leaves you with a sense of
having been expanded by. what uses the net/web/whatever its context easy in its skin or at least
knowlingly skinned and if bodied then at least swimming there, not cast in the current of
unknowing media adrift as in dementia not knowing where it is unknowingly skinned and bleeding
alas it may bleed anyway, however 'good' or 'great'.

a dream for awakened minds as the philosopher said.

or where the generosity of the universe flashes out…

> >and this work generally has no aspiration to be an art app, to define/push
> >the edge of the art
> >app.
>
> ….+ if it does this may lie in a type o conceptual latency………

care to clarify that, mez?

> >when the flash work i've seen has an edge, its edge is elsewhere. often
> >the edge is more
> >related to the intersection of, say, writing or poetry and the digital. or
> >other arts and the
> >digital. or journalism and the digital. not really a 'software art' edge,
> >which has more to do
> >with defining the edge of the art app. 'software art' puts a stress on the
> >software. on the
> >programming. on the role of programming. whereas most of the good flash
> >work i've seen does not.
>
>
> fair enuff.
>
> jim, wot wood ur dream flash wurk n.tail?

all of the above plus skin.

and you?

what are your favorite flash pieces, mez? i've posted links. one doesn't want to speak of these
things in their complete absence; it is bad criticism when they are a URL away.

Here is a form I thought you might find interesting, Mez. The rectangular configuration is of
text positioning, as is the name levTextSphere, and one imagines process additional to what we
see currently on mouseover, perhaps: http://levitated.net/daily/levTextSphere.html . Some
transformation of the language as it flare out resettles. A different reading. A kind of 'base
class' mutable flash literary form.

ja
http://vispo.com

How far away am I from Flash/Shockwave work, in your opinion?

-e.



—– Original Message —–
From: "Jim Andrews" <[email protected]>
To: "List@Rhizome. Org" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 2:00 AM
Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: software art and flash art


> Did you read that in 'How to create a net.art star?'
>
> No, i recall Oro Bouros from a previous few posts of yours, Eryk, come to
think of it.
>
> He was afraid of art scenes, if I recall correctly, and judged them from
afar.
>
> Seriously though, Eryk, I read that you don't like Flash/Shockwave work.
>
> Don't pull an Oro B and judge from afar.
>
> ja
>
> > I think Oro Bouros, famous Outsider Net.Artist, once said something
about
> > how the best net.artists never mention thier work to anyone. In fact,
they
> > might never even bother to put it online. That's how good it is.
> >
> > -e.
>
> > > > How about we talk about good playstation commercials?
> > >
> > > or art ads/self promotion?
> > >
> > > that's a bit closer to home, isn't it?
> > >
> > > ja
>
>
>
> .
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

The Green House is the name I have given to the region in cyberspace where
these new (?) artistic forms of expression can be found - "Net Art" or "Web
Art". It alludes to the electric green colour widely used on the Internet,
especially in its links, and also, of course, to the approximation I have
made to the work of Machado de Assis. The Green House that I am writing
about can be accessed by Itaguai, by all the towns and villages near and far
to it, by the city of Rio de Janeiro itself and lastly, by all at any
latitude or longitude of this our planet Earth. Many artists are already
exploring and researching this new stand for art, which, despite the
mathematics, in my view, has far more of butterfly wings - art and madness
in support of coming to be.
Today cyberspace offers us thousands of possibilities to be adrift or to
find ourselves in a safe harbour amid the intricate paths of its
cartography. "Net Art" or "Web Art" would fit into which of these two
options?
I don't know exactly when the Green House was opened, but the fact is that
at the end of the seven years in which I have been watching it, the
experiences have not yet run out. In Itaguai and in the rest of the whole
world, the possibility exists to access and enjoy this open territory of Art
that I insist on calling the Green House.


And I was right. From all the cities and little places lost in the world
artists have flowed to the Green House. In the beginning there were those
who wanted to exhibit their traditional creations: paintings, prints,
sculptures

> How far away am I from Flash/Shockwave work, in your opinion?
>
> -e.

The shortest distance between two points is usually a straight line, but I'm not sure I have one
to respond with. The space grows and shrinks depending on which direction one looks; the
distance changes.

I enjoyed your new pieces, Eryk. The 'pictures' are striking to view. I waded into the essay you
link to, but could not finish it. Went back to the pictures. It would be nice to have the text
for the picture in the neath text, maybe, a version that isn't marked up. Not having it there de
emphasizes the text, but maybe that's as you want it.

I like that the 'pictures' are zoom in to the point where one generally can't make out the big
picture and its relation to the 'essay' except it is 'made of' the essay.

How did you create the 'pictures'?

Do you know Ted Warnell's work at www.warnell.com ? A relation there, it seems. His 'material'
is largely HTML yet his background is that of a visual artist. He is well-known as a net.artist
and visual poet.

He and I have collaborated on several things over the years. He is not particularly fond of
Flash or Shockwave work either. But that seems to have (more or less) got sorted out over time.

There's the work and the distance (or lack thereof) between the works. Then there's the distance
between people. It seems like the latter is more determining of the distance between the works
than we care to admit.

ja
http://vispo.com