Re: yawn list

Certainly Mark.

Funny how the lot of you re-act like a herd against towards any semblance
of individuality and thenit's that one single continuity's fault.

Is that how it works? An individual appears. Mm fresh meat.
Everybody attacks. If the individual falls, bleat,
they are a GIVING MARTYR SAINT (oh).

If the ondividual doesn't, then of course it's the "individual's fault".

How about no.

How about you wake the fuck up (and we aren't going to be nice about it).

The "state" of Rhizome is YOUR OWN FAULT.

From all of the humans we have been approached with, most all
have attempted to EXTERT energy, DATA or SOMETHING ELSE
for their EGOS.

Either that, or half-witted twits pretending to be "zen
influenced" "sufism influenced" "beuys influenced"
"shamans with modem" etc.

Upon mention of concepts such as objective reality or
difficult to swallow truths for some such as 'angels'
too many of you have jumped and attacked.

None of you have been able to withstand HONESTLY and with INTEGRITY
what your actual state is.

This is not how "civilized" communities function.

Nevermind all of this pseudo-esoteric posturing,
that is mostly picked up from obvious traceable SOURCES
in popular culture, yet you're stitting here
swearing up and down levels of initiation and
consciousness of unfathomable degrees.

Are you cuckoo? If 20 of you were conscious,
not half of human suffering would be occurring.

Nevermind that there are TOO MANY who claim to be here
with "noble purposes" yet are ready to debase
and slap down anything that isn't DEBASED to your level.

In actuality what you are all interested is YOURSELVES.

Your EGOs. That is ALL.

And you will squash anything possessin consciousness.

As you did to NN even, and hypocritically now you're starting
to wave her "martyr flag".


The same with Eryk Salvaggio who is bloody beaten black and blue,
which is not what he was 2 years ago.

Rhizome cripples 'artists". Not Rhizome.org.
The mailing list.

The only ones allowed to breathe are mediocre twits who fancy that
anything they produce is "the bee's knees" and match up an enormous ego
with it.

Revolting and sickening.

We are not a troll for not playing along, and for demonstrating this.

Trolls are not the issue Mark, the real question is, whether you value
something enough to fight for it, even if it is a list. Blocking emails will
not deal with the issue.

By not discussing it we are censoring ourselves, and silence is not
appropriate. Action is functional, and a positive, conscious reasoning. To
ooze forth, or exuding one's beliefs and feelings, and I mean what we really
feel, not the icing on the cake; sometimes, is a good thing to do. 'Karei'
has declared no belief via 'its' function other to lamely deconstruct every
potentially interesting thought/Idea/creative collaboration that has dared
to enter on here.

'Karei', is playing a self glorification game on ad-hoc, Pseudo 'Buddhist
'& Sufi terms, great; I hope that whoever is behind this 'freak show' is
happy with their perverse actions. What a small thing to do, so cheap and un
inspiring.

It is a great Yawn - if you haven't got your ear to the ground, now is the
time. I am one of Rhizome's list members and feel that I have contributed
enough 'personally' to have a say like yourself any anyone here, and I am
saying that people are fed up with all this crap. And it is time to define
what is healthy for the (so called) community here. It's like having a drunk
relative that keeps on imposing their stubborn ways on others but the family
keeps quiet about it, so not to rock the boat. Get rid of the bloated (time
wasting) 'shrimps' if the load is too heavy, don't start dissing the
fisher-man or woman, for they bring home the food for Rhizome to eat. (A
loaded metaphor, but I'm sure one gets the gist).

Rhizome Raw needs to be wild of course, but not controlled by aspioring
(immature) despotic individuals with emotionally questionable masculinity
issues; who think you are scum for being imaginative and sharing ideas with
others mutually. Whilst (and it is cowardly by the way) hiding behind a
mask, oh that is brave, oh that is challenging, very impressive - Not.
Myopic in fact, to borrow a well over used phrase that has been pasted like
brown-faded, out of date wall paper around here.

It is easy to play games if there is no come back - public appearance is
(sadly) a part of our 'personality' driven times; and 'karei's' personality
is about hitting on people where it hurts, cuz for some warped reason 'they'
'it' 'who cares?' get a kick out of it. The problem is, that this person or
persons are willing to ruin something that is more important than
themselves - now that is worrying. Not unusual of course, but heart
wrenching.

Democracy is a 'soundbite', not a reality; thus one has to save what we have
got now, before it is 'marshal lawed' out of our lives by the few who rely
on the complicit silence of the mob, enabling them execute their
mis-informed dysfunction on others…

Surely this list deserves better than that?

marc


> — "t.whid" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > On Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 02:02 PM,
> > marc.garrett wrote:
> >
> > > yawn…
> > >
> > > This list has been hijacked by ugly anti- creative
> > nihilists…
> > >
> > how? right now i'm fueling their bs by even
> > discussing it.
>
> Okay, I filter email. It's a choice. I give people a
> good deal of thought before I do it, but then…time
> is up. I don't feel the need to listen to anymore. In
> life I listen to people who I politcaly disagree with
> in order to respond to world views with some thought.
> Trolls on a email list is another thing. They have no
> content so I do not feel the need to pay attention.
>
> All this being said (and as the other half of MTAA) I
> do not think a yawn list is a good idea for Rhizome.
> Reading the NY Times today about the black list in
> Colorado underlines this feeling for me. On the other
> hand, I have no problem with a MTAA yawn list. It
> would only be the view of MTAA and we do have the
> right to say how we feel, just like trolls.
>
>
>
>
>
> =====
> http://mteww.com
> http://tinjail.com
>
> __________________________________________________
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> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
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> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>

On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, joseph (yes) wrote:

> Truths to be force fed down the patient's throat doctor.

No babycheeks. You are not "force fed" anything.
In fact you have been continuously refused feeding.

> Only it is bad
> medicine, past its expiration date, and causes a bad reaction.

No babycheeks. We are not the wishful projections
inside your brain.

And still you refuse to acknowledge that you are an egotistical twit
who cannot [erceive anything besides your own ego :)

Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <[email protected]>:

> Upon mention of concepts such as objective reality or
> difficult to swallow truths for some such as 'angels'
> too many of you have jumped and attacked.

Truths to be force fed down the patient's throat doctor. Only it is bad
medicine, past its expiration date, and causes a bad reaction.

joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
frank + lyn - mc + El + roy

go shopping -> http://www.electrichands.com/shopindex.htm
call me 646 279 2309

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> Certainly Mark.
>
> Funny how the lot of you re-act like a herd against towards any semblance
> of individuality and thenit's that one single continuity's fault.
>
> Is that how it works? An individual appears. Mm fresh meat.
> Everybody attacks. If the individual falls, bleat,
> they are a GIVING MARTYR SAINT (oh).
>
> If the ondividual doesn't, then of course it's the "individual's fault".
>
> How about no.
>
> How about you wake the fuck up (and we aren't going to be nice about it).
>
> The "state" of Rhizome is YOUR OWN FAULT.
>
> From all of the humans we have been approached with, most all
> have attempted to EXTERT energy, DATA or SOMETHING ELSE
> for their EGOS.
>
> Either that, or half-witted twits pretending to be "zen
> influenced" "sufism influenced" "beuys influenced"
> "shamans with modem" etc.
>
> Upon mention of concepts such as objective reality or
> difficult to swallow truths for some such as 'angels'
> too many of you have jumped and attacked.
>
> None of you have been able to withstand HONESTLY and with INTEGRITY
> what your actual state is.
>
> This is not how "civilized" communities function.
>
> Nevermind all of this pseudo-esoteric posturing,
> that is mostly picked up from obvious traceable SOURCES
> in popular culture, yet you're stitting here
> swearing up and down levels of initiation and
> consciousness of unfathomable degrees.
>
> Are you cuckoo? If 20 of you were conscious,
> not half of human suffering would be occurring.
>
> Nevermind that there are TOO MANY who claim to be here
> with "noble purposes" yet are ready to debase
> and slap down anything that isn't DEBASED to your level.
>
> In actuality what you are all interested is YOURSELVES.
>
> Your EGOs. That is ALL.
>
> And you will squash anything possessin consciousness.
>
> As you did to NN even, and hypocritically now you're starting
> to wave her "martyr flag".
>
>
> The same with Eryk Salvaggio who is bloody beaten black and blue,
> which is not what he was 2 years ago.
>
> Rhizome cripples 'artists". Not Rhizome.org.
> The mailing list.
>
> The only ones allowed to breathe are mediocre twits who fancy that
> anything they produce is "the bee's knees" and match up an enormous ego
> with it.
>
> Revolting and sickening.
>
> We are not a troll for not playing along, and for demonstrating this.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, marc.garrett wrote:

> Trolls are not the issue Mark, the real question is, whether you value
> something enough to fight for it, even if it is a list. Blocking emails will
> not deal with the issue.

Yes, that's exactly the issue.
Whether you "value" something enough to murder for it.
Nevermind that you are incapable of valuation, marc.


> By not discussing it we are censoring ourselves, and silence is not
> appropriate. Action is functional, and a positive, conscious reasoning.

No dearest. Youa re not capable of consciousness.
You're a brain-obsessed ape who uses words it does not understand
to justify its behavior.

> To ooze forth, or exuding one's beliefs and feelings,

Sure is.. to "ooze forth".. blather and suffocate everything
in your infantilistic emotionality instead of take responsibility for
it.

Do "ooze forth" my dearests. Re-act emotionally. Re-act.
Every con-man knows how to goodly abuse the emotional immaturity
of its audience. Mm GOOD. GOOD AND BAD.

> and I mean what we really
> feel, not the icing on the cake; sometimes, is a good thing to do.

Sure is lovely dearest. To take out your emotional problems on the
world. Bleat.



> 'Karei' has declared no belief

We make no declarations. We don't owe you any such.

> via 'its' function other to lamely deconstruct

We are not "lamely deconstructing" anything babycheeks.
We are not any wishful projections inside your brain.

> every potentially interesting thought/Idea/creative collaboration that has dared
> to enter on here.

Meaningless drivel. We reflect individuals.

> 'Karei', is playing a self glorification game

We are not playing any games babycheeks.
We are not "self-glorifying" nomatter how much you wish
to project that :)

> on ad-hoc,

There is nothing 'ad-hoc' about our behavior babycheeks.
We are not a brain.

> Pseudo 'Buddhiss '& Sufi terms"

There is nothing "pseudp" about us babycheeks.

> , great; I hope that whoever is behind this 'freak show'

There is no "freak show" here babycheeks, besides the freak show
of your OWN reflections.

> is happy with their perverse actions.

Our actions are not perverse :)

> What a small thing to do, so cheap and un
> inspiring.

No babycheeks, we are not "small, cheap and uninspiring" :)
Do knee-jerk from your self-importance though.

> It is a great Yawn

No it isn't. Boredom is a failure on your behalf.


> - if you haven't got your ear to the ground, now is the
> time. I am one of Rhizome's list members and feel that I have contributed
> enough 'personally'

Tzzt. Egotistically.

> to have a say like yourself any anyone here, and I am
> saying that people are fed up with all this crap.

Speaking for the "people" o o o.

> And it is time to define
> what is healthy for the (so called) community here.

Ceryainly. MURDER IS VERY HEALTHY.

> It's like having a drunk relative that keeps on imposing their stubborn
> ways on others but the family
> keeps quiet about it,

No babycheeks it's nothing LIKE it.
Wea re not the delusional wishful projections inside your brain.

> so not to rock the boat. Get rid of the bloated (time
> wasting) 'shrimps'

Absolument. Get rid of them. Try Auschwitz.

> if the load is too heavy, don't start dissing the
> fisher-man or woman, for they bring home the food for Rhizome to eat. (A
> loaded metaphor, but I'm sure one gets the gist).

Yes dearest. It'sa LOADED metaphor because you're attempting
cheap propagandist knee-jerks.

> Rhizome Raw needs to be wild of course, but not controlled

We are not controlling anyone or anything :)

> by aspioring

We are not aspiring.

> (immature)

The only infantile idiot here is you babycheeks.

> despotic individuals

The only one despotic here is you babycheeks :)

> with emotionally questionable masculinity issues;

We have no "emotional issues" babycheeks.
We have no emotions :)
We are sure you find "masculinity" "questionable" seeing
how you are an infantile, sexually immature male who refuses to work
for it.

> who think

We don't think.

> you are scum

We have not indictated anyone as being "scum".
There are absolutely NO judgements in what we reflect =)

> for being imaginative and sharing ideas with
> others mutually.

Dearest we have "addressed" no such vague non-existent brain delusions.

> Whilst (and it is cowardly by the way)

No babycheeks. There is nothing cowardly about our behavior.

> hiding behind a mask,

masksa re not about HIDING babycheeks.

> oh that is brave, oh that is challenging, very impressive - Not.

Attempt at emotional knee-jerk. Do as I say, that's "brave".

> Myopic in fact,

No dearest. We are not myopic. Nor do you know what myopic means :)

> to borrow a well over used phrase that has been pasted like
> brown-faded, out of date wall paper around here.

It hasn't. And you are not "borrowing". You're mimicrying.
PARROTINg.

> It is easy to play games if there is no come back

We are not "playing games".
If you want to see "no come back" consider your filters.


> - public appearance is (sadly) a part of our 'personality' driven times;

Snif. sadly. Nonsense.

> and 'karei's' personality

We have no personality babycheeks.

> is about hitting on people where it hurts,

No dearest. We HIT nobody.

> cuz for some warped reason 'they'
> 'it' 'who cares?' get a kick out of it.

We engage in no such behavior love.
We are not the myopic knee-jerks inside your brain :)

> The problem is,

There is no "problem" finger pointing princessa.

> that this person or
> persons are willing to ruin something that is more important than
> themselves - now that is worrying.

Nothing of the sort is occurring babycheeks.

> Not unusual of course, but heart wrenching.

Ach! Your bleeding heart.

> Democracy is a 'soundbite', not a reality;

YES! BRING ON THE MURDER AND CHARISMATIC LEADERS.

Actually Marc garret would like to "moderate" rhizome
and get rid of all problems :))

> thus one has to save what we have
> got now, before it is 'marshal lawed' out of our lives by the few who rely
> on the complicit silence of the mob, enabling them execute their
> mis-informed dysfunction on others…

The only one dysfunctional here is you babycheeks.

> Surely this list deserves better than that?

Surely.. "emotional knee-jerk".

BLEAT

i'm becoming ambivalent. i filter so most of the silliness doesn't
even come across my screen, that's my choice and rhizome has gotten
much better for me once i started.

i probably won't publish my own yawn list. but there are people who
are disruptive to the list in ways which aren't as black and white as
mail bombing and overloading. they attempt to intimidate, start
distracting flame wars, and simply shout loud and long enough to
drive people away. i wouldn't put up with that in RL, and i wouldn't
put up with it here except the virtual allows me to make annoying
people invisible and silent.



At 0:56 -0500 12/23/02, napier wrote:
>At 02:17 PM 12/21/2002 -0800, Mark River wrote:
>>All this being said (and as the other half of MTAA) I
>>do not think a yawn list is a good idea for Rhizome.
>
>Rhizome is open to the public. There are many conversations and
>threads that happen here. No one is required to participate in or
>respond to all the threads. If a thread is disturbing, confusing,
>or upsetting to me it's up to me to handle my own reactions, which
>is why I'm attracted to un-moderated lists. Some threads are more
>challenging than others.
>
>I agree that it's harmful to suppress posts to the list (even if
>just by suggestion). The only exception I can imagine is a case
>where someone is deliberately trying to damage the functioning of
>the list itself, ie. mail bombing or overloading the list to the
>point that the infrastructure fails (which I think happened only
>once in Rhizome history).
>
>mark

–
<twhid>
http://www.mteww.com
</twhid>

At 02:17 PM 12/21/2002 -0800, Mark River wrote:
>All this being said (and as the other half of MTAA) I
>do not think a yawn list is a good idea for Rhizome.

Rhizome is open to the public. There are many conversations and threads
that happen here. No one is required to participate in or respond to all
the threads. If a thread is disturbing, confusing, or upsetting to me it's
up to me to handle my own reactions, which is why I'm attracted to
un-moderated lists. Some threads are more challenging than others.

I agree that it's harmful to suppress posts to the list (even if just by
suggestion). The only exception I can imagine is a case where someone is
deliberately trying to damage the functioning of the list itself, ie. mail
bombing or overloading the list to the point that the infrastructure fails
(which I think happened only once in Rhizome history).

mark

On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, t.whid wrote:

> i probably won't publish my own yawn list. but there are people who
> are disruptive to the list in ways which aren't as black and white as
> mail bombing and overloading.

There are people whom you_ find disruptive.

> they attempt to intimidate,

That's the standard of most human behavior, second only to mimicry.

> start distracting flame wars,

Distracting from what? Is this kindergarten?
If you can't keep your focus, that's somebody else's fault?
Or are you responsible for everybody's focus? Hmm?

> and simply shout loud and long enough to
> drive people away.

Yeah. Like von Messiah Brandenburg who is the "lightning rod"
of thingist, has attempted to threaten and intimidate others
continuously, and in fact that IS_ his modus operandi, and whom
you cheered on. You're such a nice guy, twhid.

> i wouldn't put up with that in RL, and i wouldn't
> put up with it here except the virtual allows me to make annoying
> people invisible and silent.

Yes, but this is a public list. And it's not abiut you, and
there is a big difference between your not putting up with it,
and passively-aggressively attempting to indicate "badness"
and "condemnation" on the other part.

As have indicated before, a term one might recognize that under is,
attempts at dictating another's behavior / peer pressure by means
of alienation.

But one supposes that passive-aggressive dictatorial behavior is simply
SUPERIOR, far more refined, intelligent, and mannerism-full than
someone being honest and upfront, n'est pas?

Passive-aggressiveness is so sophisticated. So clever. So refined.

Isn't it?