> From: "dlsan" <[email protected]>
> http://digilander.libero.it/dlsan/splash/iraq_cards.html
Below is the text from one of the "Splash" cards at the web site recommended
by "dlsan"
"Meanwhile, estimates of the number of
innocents who have died in Iraq from
relentless American-dictated UN sanctions
range between 1-1.7 million, including
more than half-a-million children.
UNICEF official Thomas Ekfal estimates
that about 500,000 children have died in
Iraq since the United Nations Security
Council imposed economic sanctions
on Baghdad."
The above quote comes from a short amateurish missive (
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/THO209A.html ) written by "Allis Chalmers
distinguished professor of International Affairs at Marquette University,
Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Copyright Raju Thomas, Times of India 2002"
The figures quoted above were provided by the Saddam mafia to UNICEF. They
are nothing more than propaganda to be swallowed by gullible idiots who are
full of self-righteousness and short of an ability to question authority.
The UNICEF report containing the above "stats" was co-authored with the
Iraqi Health Ministry. All of the statistical data was provided by the
Saddam dictatorshit. Iraqi authorities have never permitted independent
verification.
Furthermore, the figures had been thoroughly analyzed by Amatzia Baram who
found them to be grossly inflated and thoroughly inconsistent with Iraq's
own published demographics. http://www.mideasti.org/articles/baram.html,
the footnotes can be found @
http://www.mideasti.org/html/baramfootnotes.html
Iraqi Agent of Influence on RHIZOME, Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Postcards from Iraq
-
Type: discussion
Comments
I do not believe the sanctions achieved their aims – I also believe that s=
anctions against South Africa in an earlier decade also failed to achieve t=
heir aims.
Some civilians are suffering. Who is responsible? In large part it is the d=
ictator that bears responsibility.
—– Original Message —–
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: Iraqi Agent of Influence on RHIZOME, Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Postca=
rds from Iraq
Hello
Wally, you may be right in saying that certain figures to do with child d=
eaths due to sanctions in Iraq have been exaggerated for political purposes=
. However, that people in Iraq are suffering, and children dying, because o=
f these sanctions appears to be, I believe, a 'fact'. Yet Saddam remains!=
Are you suggesting that (a.) the sanctions are a good thing that have ach=
ieved their aims? and/or (b.) that no civilians are suffering undue hardshi=
p as a result of these (seemingly inneffectual) sanctions?
Jon
—– Original Message —–
From: "Eryk Salvaggio" <[email protected]>
> Wally Keeler wrote:
> >The figures quoted above were provided by the Saddam mafia to UNICEF.
They
> >are nothing more than propaganda to be swallowed by gullible idiots who
are
> >full of self-righteousness and short of an ability to question authority.
>
> How do you know that?
Read the analysis; I provided the web site, along with the footnotes for the
analysis.
> >The UNICEF report containing the above "stats" was co-authored with the
> >Iraqi Health Ministry. All of the statistical data was provided by the
> >Saddam dictatorshit. Iraqi authorities have never permitted independent
> >verification.
>
> And what about the rest of it?
The rest of what?
On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Eryk Salvaggio wrote:
> >full of self-righteousness and short of an ability to question authority.
> >
Ability to 'question authority' he-ha-ho.
I'm laughing myself silly, really I am.
Rhizome will bring about the World Revolution.
Wally Keeler wrote:
>The figures quoted above were provided by the Saddam mafia to UNICEF. They
>are nothing more than propaganda to be swallowed by gullible idiots who are
>full of self-righteousness and short of an ability to question authority.
>
How do you know that?
>
>The UNICEF report containing the above "stats" was co-authored with the
>Iraqi Health Ministry. All of the statistical data was provided by the
>Saddam dictatorshit. Iraqi authorities have never permitted independent
>verification.
>
And what about the rest of it?
-e.
Hello
Wally, you may be right in saying that certain figures to do with child
deaths due to sanctions in Iraq have been exaggerated for political purposes.
However, that people in Iraq are suffering, and children dying, because of
these sanctions appears to be, I believe, a 'fact'. Yet Saddam remains!
Are you suggesting that (a.) the sanctions are a good thing that have
achieved their aims? and/or (b.) that no civilians are suffering undue
hardship as a result of these (seemingly inneffectual) sanctions?
Jon
Wally Keeler wrote:
>—– Original Message —–
>From: "Eryk Salvaggio" <[email protected]>
>
>>Wally Keeler wrote:
>>
>>>The figures quoted above were provided by the Saddam mafia to UNICEF.
>>>
>They
>
>>>are nothing more than propaganda to be swallowed by gullible idiots who
>>>
>are
>
>>>full of self-righteousness and short of an ability to question authority.
>>>
>>How do you know that?
>>
>
>Read the analysis; I provided the web site, along with the footnotes for the
>analysis.
>
Oh, I was confused because you said you questioned authority. So I
didn't think you would take these figures at face value, or the
rejection of these figures at face value.
>
>
>>>The UNICEF report containing the above "stats" was co-authored with the
>>>Iraqi Health Ministry. All of the statistical data was provided by the
>>>Saddam dictatorshit. Iraqi authorities have never permitted independent
>>>verification.
>>>
>>And what about the rest of it?
>>
>
>The rest of what?
>
The rest of the statistics on the web site in question. Just because you
find evidence suggesting one of the figures is incorrect, I wonder how
that affects the rest of them.
-e.
>
>
>
I didn't write that, moron.
-e.
-IID42 Kandinskij @27+ wrote:
>On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Eryk Salvaggio wrote:
>
>>>full of self-righteousness and short of an ability to question authority.
>>>
>
> Ability to 'question authority' he-ha-ho.
> I'm laughing myself silly, really I am.
> Rhizome will bring about the World Revolution.
>
>
>+ the Patty Winters show this morning was about Real-Life Rambos.
>-> post: [email protected]
>-> questions: [email protected]
>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>+
>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
Economy sucks
Oil for sale
Property owned
Magic Capital
Ponytale wins on Rikki
Random gun shots
Fakes in jail
Scare wannabes
Insurance a risk
Interest rates - people don't
No bar dancing
Fear of bears
Press Corps mistakes
Cops profile outside
Haters hate - Waiters they wait
Sheep, cow, moose, horse,
Deer, chicken,
Goat, ox, mule, ass,
Pig, dog, cat, mouse, duck
Or goose. Choose your animal
Slaughterhouse bones
Covered with
Blood were what my
Grandpa bought and brought
To the truck in which I sat
He spoke in tongues
To my ears.
I never understood.
We know you wouldn't
Comprehend his ways either.
The bones were for the dogs.
–
Joseph Franklyn McElroy
Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist]
—– Original Message —–
From: Eryk Salvaggio
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: Iraqi Agent of Influence on RHIZOME, Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Postca=
rds from Iraq
Wally Keeler wrote:
—– Original Message —–From: "Eryk Salvaggio" <[email protected]>
Wally Keeler wrote:
The figures quoted above were provided by the Saddam mafia to UNICEF.
They
are nothing more than propaganda to be swallowed by gullible idiots who
are
full of self-righteousness and short of an ability to question authority.
How do you know that?
Read the analysis; I provided the web site, along with the footnotes for th=
eanalysis.
Oh, I was confused because you said you questioned authority. So I didn't=
think you would take these figures at face value, or the rejection of thes=
e figures at face value.
There is nothing to suggest that I did take the figures atface value. The=
y were scrutinized. Did you find a flaw in them. If so I would be most inte=
rested to learn.
The UNICEF report containing the above "stats" was co-authored with theIraq=
i Health Ministry. All of the statistical data was provided by theSaddam di=
ctatorshit. Iraqi authorities have never permitted independentverification.
And what about the rest of it?
The rest of what?
The rest of the statistics on the web site in question. Just because you =
find evidence suggesting one of the figures is incorrect, I wonder how that=
affects the rest of them.
It raises a doubt about their veracity. If the web site fails to scrutini=
ze on one, that opens question and possible doubts about the rest.
-e.
On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Eryk Salvaggio wrote:
> I didn't write that, moron.
Ahem, dearest. The only moron here is you.
You don't really write what you write anyways, love.
I was simply laughing at the idea of 'questioning authority'.
Get over yourself–the comment was about 'rhizome'–
and being purposefully dense does you no service :)
`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
Of course it's entirely possible to dispute the
statistics.
Its interesting to observe however the selective use
of the UN and it's bodies by those in favour of
sanctions/war: useful as a fig leaf for the defence of
US oil interests ,to be derided when one of those
bodies comes close to telling the truth about the
effect of sanctions.
What is indisputable though is that the following
exchange took place :
Leslie Stahl: "We have heard that a half million
children have died (as a
result of sanctions against Iraq). I mean, that is
more children than died
in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"
Madeleine Albright: "I think this is a very hard
choice, but the price, we
think the price is worth it."
– A CBS Sixty Minutes interview between Leslie Stahl
and U.S. Secretary
of State Madeleine Albright, on 12 May 1996
you'll notice no attempt to deny the figure of 500,000
given ( and this is 6 years ago).
When it comes down to it when I compare a country that
has actually used nuclear weapons twice,which
possesses over a thousand nuclear weapons on hundreds
of intercontinental ballistic missiles, which dropped
17,000,000 gallons of a chemical agent containing
dioxin on a peasant economy in South East asia, that
refuses to sign up to an international criminal court
and further refuses proper independent inspections of
it's own chemical and biological stockpiles, which has
intervened violently in the internal affairs of other
nations over 30 times in the last century, with a
nation that has been starved beck to the stone age by
sanctions and which even at the height of it's
military preparedness in the early nineties was unable
to effectively use it's "WMDs" to target Israel, a few
hundred kilometres away, it's clear to me which one
comprises the threat to world peace.
michael
Oh yes- and of course Hussein is a villain but which
nation armed and encouraged him as a counterweight to
Iran in the first Gulf War, even attempting to
suppress UN condemnation of his use of chemical
weapons against the Kurds ?
=====
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
I won't comply, you can't make me.
–
Joseph Franklyn McElroy
Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist]
From: "Michael Szpakowski" <[email protected]>
> Of course it's entirely possible to dispute the
> statistics.
Not only is it possible; it was done, quite effectively by an expert.
> Its interesting to observe however the selective use
> of the UN and it's bodies by those in favour of
> sanctions/war: useful as a fig leaf for the defence of
> US oil interests ,to be derided when one of those
> bodies comes close to telling the truth about the
> effect of sanctions.
I wonder what powers were behind the sanctions against South Africa?
> What is indisputable though is that the following
> exchange took place :
>
> Leslie Stahl: "We have heard that a half million
> children have died (as a
> result of sanctions against Iraq). I mean, that is
> more children than died
> in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"
>
> Madeleine Albright: "I think this is a very hard
> choice, but the price, we
> think the price is worth it."
The exchange does not validate the figures, which were effectively debunked
by the expert.
> – A CBS Sixty Minutes interview between Leslie Stahl
> and U.S. Secretary
> of State Madeleine Albright, on 12 May 1996
>
> you'll notice no attempt to deny the figure of 500,000
> given ( and this is 6 years ago).
>
> When it comes down to it when I compare a country that
> has actually used nuclear weapons twice,which
> possesses over a thousand nuclear weapons on hundreds
> of intercontinental ballistic missiles, which dropped
> 17,000,000 gallons of a chemical agent containing
> dioxin on a peasant economy in South East asia, that
> refuses to sign up to an international criminal court
> and further refuses proper independent inspections of
> it's own chemical and biological stockpiles, which has
> intervened violently in the internal affairs of other
> nations over 30 times in the last century, with a
> nation that has been starved beck to the stone age by
> sanctions and which even at the height of it's
> military preparedness in the early nineties was unable
> to effectively use it's "WMDs" to target Israel, a few
> hundred kilometres away, it's clear to me which one
> comprises the threat to world peace.
> michael
>
> Oh yes- and of course Hussein is a villain but which
> nation armed and encouraged him as a counterweight to
> Iran in the first Gulf War, even attempting to
> suppress UN condemnation of his use of chemical
> weapons against the Kurds ?
>
>
> =====
> http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
> http://faith.yahoo.com
> + the Patty Winters show this morning was about Real-Life Rambos.
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php