Tisma's Flatline - Bush's greetings: Warry Christmas!

Yes, the only difference between Yugoslavia and USA is that the second is
just preparing a war with possible one million casualties. I hope this is a
reason enough for a small gif animation by me ;)

And if you still do not understand, this is a work not about war toys, but
about real wars that are just GAMES for some people. There are "real" images
in it too, didn't you notice?





—– Original Message —–
From: "Wally Keeler" <[email protected]>
To: "Andrej Tisma" <[email protected]>; "RHIZOME" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 3:32 AM
Subject: Tisma's Flatline - Bush's greetings: Warry Christmas!


> From: "Andrej Tisma" <[email protected]>
> > Animated gif greetings: WARRY CHRISTMAS!
> > http://www.webheaven.co.yu/nato/warrychristmas.htm
>
> A very simplistic site. Mistletoe wallpaper and a flashing sequence of 5
gif
> images of a couple "war toys" and the usual USA military weapons. No doubt
> the Yugoslav military have no weapons and toy soldiers, etc, don't exist
in
> the heavenly republic of Yugoslavia. It reminds me of the occassion when
I
> was in Beograd in 1985 looking for some rock and roll cassettes – there
was
> plenty and I bought several. What a disappointment most of it was – pale
> imitations and remakes of USAmerican rock&roll, much like
> "warrychristmas.htm". But then there was a couple cassettes (Videosex -
> Lacrimae Christi; and Denis&Denis - Ja Sam Lazljiva) which contained some
> rock&roll which was distinctly Balkan, and then there was the powerfully
> distinctive Bijelo Dugme lead by the brilliant & creative Goran Bregovic.
> Andrej Tisma's web site is not a particularly imaginative nor astute art
> piece. I would say that it is a real banality-boner. But given the
ambience
> of Rhizome, it certainly is politically correct, and therefore appealing.
> The issue of war toys has been around for decades, and Andrej has added
> nothing new to the issue. Matter of fact it reminds me of an article I
wrote
> for my home town newspaper many years ago:
>
> No punches pulled for war toys, but nary a word about real war
>
> Wally Keeler, Cobourg Daily Star, Dec 1, 1987
>
>
>
> Every Christmas season the print media turns itself over to the issue of
war
> toys. This year in the Cobourg Daily Star, it was almost two feet of
column
> space by Rev. Douglas Heard of Trinity United Church.
>
>
>
> Rev. Heard pulls no punches, nor should he, when he vividly describes how
> war toys inspire "murderous, hate-filled emotions" in children trying on a
> "homicidal mind" or "killer consciousness." I have no problem accepting
the
> truth of Rev. Heard's assertions.
>
>
>
> I do have a problem with a pervasive and absolute ommision in the thinking
> of social activists. Not once have I ever heard or read a word by these
> people about REAL war toys that inspire REAL emotions as apposed to the
> vicarious ones that Rev. Heard gets apoplectic about.
>
>
>
> I refer to the explosive booby-traps, the little dolls, the butterflies,
the
> toy trucks, the shining pens dropped by helicopter onto the soil of
> Afghanistan. Their sole purpose is to maim children physically as well as
> mentally and spiritually.
>
>
>
> These are REAL war toys, yet it is acutely noticeable that peace activists
> and clergy alike continue to remain mute about this fact that has existed
> for the past seven years.
>
>
>
> I'm sure the countless maimed children of Afghanistan will forgive us our
> abiding concern for vicarious war toys; they understand the hypocrisy. the
> self-absorbed concern for our decadent Western consciousness.
>
>
>
>

From: "Andrej Tisma" <[email protected]>
> Yes, the only difference between Yugoslavia and USA is that the second is
> just preparing a war with possible one million casualties. I hope this is
a
> reason enough for a small gif animation by me ;)

Of course you are entitled; but you posted it for comment, and I commented
that it was simplistic, pale, imitation, unoriginal and exceedingly banal.
It was a yawn art-wise – or to put it an other way, it was sophomoronic. It
had no power or creativity nor distinctiveness of your own culture a la
Bujelo Dugme. Perhaps if you created the same issue utilizing images
familiar to your own culture, rather than a foreign culture, the
manifestation could be more powerful and effective. Just a suggestion.

> And if you still do not understand, this is a work not about war toys, but
> about real wars that are just GAMES for some people.

Oh I understand it very well. It is apparant to me that you failed to
comprehend my posting.

> There are "real" images
> in it too, didn't you notice?

Yes I did notice; obviously you did not notice the reference in my sentence:
"…images of a couple "war toys" and the usual USA military weapons."

>
>
>
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: "Wally Keeler" <[email protected]>
> To: "Andrej Tisma" <[email protected]>; "RHIZOME" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 3:32 AM
> Subject: Tisma's Flatline - Bush's greetings: Warry Christmas!
>
>
> > From: "Andrej Tisma" <[email protected]>
> > > Animated gif greetings: WARRY CHRISTMAS!
> > > http://www.webheaven.co.yu/nato/warrychristmas.htm
> >
> > A very simplistic site. Mistletoe wallpaper and a flashing sequence of 5
> gif
> > images of a couple "war toys" and the usual USA military weapons. No
doubt
> > the Yugoslav military have no weapons and toy soldiers, etc, don't exist
> in
> > the heavenly republic of Yugoslavia. It reminds me of the occassion
when
> I
> > was in Beograd in 1985 looking for some rock and roll cassettes – there
> was
> > plenty and I bought several. What a disappointment most of it was –
pale
> > imitations and remakes of USAmerican rock&roll, much like
> > "warrychristmas.htm". But then there was a couple cassettes (Videosex -
> > Lacrimae Christi; and Denis&Denis - Ja Sam Lazljiva) which contained
some
> > rock&roll which was distinctly Balkan, and then there was the powerfully
> > distinctive Bijelo Dugme lead by the brilliant & creative Goran
Bregovic.
> > Andrej Tisma's web site is not a particularly imaginative nor astute art
> > piece. I would say that it is a real banality-boner. But given the
> ambience
> > of Rhizome, it certainly is politically correct, and therefore
appealing.
> > The issue of war toys has been around for decades, and Andrej has added
> > nothing new to the issue. Matter of fact it reminds me of an article I
> wrote
> > for my home town newspaper many years ago:
> >
> > No punches pulled for war toys, but nary a word about real war
> >
> > Wally Keeler, Cobourg Daily Star, Dec 1, 1987
> >
> >
> >
> > Every Christmas season the print media turns itself over to the issue of
> war
> > toys. This year in the Cobourg Daily Star, it was almost two feet of
> column
> > space by Rev. Douglas Heard of Trinity United Church.
> >
> >
> >
> > Rev. Heard pulls no punches, nor should he, when he vividly describes
how
> > war toys inspire "murderous, hate-filled emotions" in children trying on
a
> > "homicidal mind" or "killer consciousness." I have no problem accepting
> the
> > truth of Rev. Heard's assertions.
> >
> >
> >
> > I do have a problem with a pervasive and absolute ommision in the
thinking
> > of social activists. Not once have I ever heard or read a word by these
> > people about REAL war toys that inspire REAL emotions as apposed to the
> > vicarious ones that Rev. Heard gets apoplectic about.
> >
> >
> >
> > I refer to the explosive booby-traps, the little dolls, the butterflies,
> the
> > toy trucks, the shining pens dropped by helicopter onto the soil of
> > Afghanistan. Their sole purpose is to maim children physically as well
as
> > mentally and spiritually.
> >
> >
> >
> > These are REAL war toys, yet it is acutely noticeable that peace
activists
> > and clergy alike continue to remain mute about this fact that has
existed
> > for the past seven years.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm sure the countless maimed children of Afghanistan will forgive us
our
> > abiding concern for vicarious war toys; they understand the hypocrisy.
the
> > self-absorbed concern for our decadent Western consciousness.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

From: "Andrej Tisma" <[email protected]>
> > Yes I did notice; obviously you did not notice the reference in my
> sentence:
> > "…images of a couple "war toys" and the usual USA military weapons."
>
> But also a dead Iraqi (or Yugoslavian) girl and her crying mother. Did you
> notice it too?

Sure did, but that does not provide any value to your otherwise mediocre
dime-a-dozen anti-USA presentation.

Could also be a Kurdish mother crying for her girl killed by Iraqi gas.
Could also be a Kosovan mother crying for her girl killed by Jugoslav
paramilitary.
Could also be an Iranian mother crying for her girl killed by Iraqi gas.
Could also be a Chechen mother cryng for her girl killed by Russians.

> Yes I did notice; obviously you did not notice the reference in my
sentence:
> "…images of a couple "war toys" and the usual USA military weapons."

But also a dead Iraqi (or Yugoslavian) girl and her crying mother. Did you
notice it too?

> Could also be a Kurdish mother crying for her girl killed by Iraqi gas.
> Could also be a Kosovan mother crying for her girl killed by Jugoslav
> paramilitary.
> Could also be an Iranian mother crying for her girl killed by Iraqi gas.
> Could also be a Chechen mother cryng for her girl killed by Russians.

Exactly it is a Iraqi girl hit by American and British bombers in "no fly
zones" these days. It was published by Reuters and it is a document.

I said "or Yugoslavian" because there were over 1,000 children killed in US
intervention against Yugoslavia in 1999, and when I see a dead or wounded
child it reminds me first of what I have seen near me. Also you complained I
do not use my domestic material for my works, so I can tell you this Iraqi
child which is victim of US bomb means to me the same as my domestic victim
of US bomb. Albanian children were also killed by US bombs. Romanis too. I
said Yugoslavian, not Serbian. And by the way I assure you that my work is
something pure domestic, genuine, revolt against US intervention in my
country, but also everywhere else, because Americans have the most
destructive weapons ever made in the history of the world. And they still
use it, and they intend to use it again.

From: "Andrej Tisma" <[email protected]>
> > According to what/whom?
> They are all here, with names, data, autopsy results, images
> http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/yugoslavia/milosevic/bela/bela/index.htm
>
http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/yugoslavia/milosevic/bela/bela2/NATO_agr.h
> tm

I'll spend the time to see if it adds up to "over 1,000 children" as you
claim.
Do you have the web site for the White book concerning the slaighters
committed by Yugoslav forces against its neighbours?

> > When needed I hope.
>
> Yes, in need for more oil and colonies.

Get a grip on reality Andrej. The USA doesn't need Iraqi oil. There are
plenty of other sorces of oil in the world providing all of USAmerica's
needs. In spite of sanctions against Iraq, when oil was hardly a trickle,
USA did quite well and the price of oil remainded low. When sanctions were
lifted for the oil-for-medicine-&-food program, The Iraqi Milosovic refused
to accept it for many months, because he would have lost his propaganda
advantage of starved babies. Nevertheless, Iraqi oil is besides the
point – only the gullible swallow that myth.

In any event, your web site is mediocre as it stands. I made the sugestion
that your web site might be more effective and powerful of you focussed on
your cultural manifestation with the same creativity and courage as Bijelo
Dugme. Instead, you have chosen to defend your mediocrity vigorously, and
all that vigor doesn't change the fact that your web site is the consequence
of an overactive bland-gland on your part.

Yes, this report was made by "Milosevic regime" because in that time
Milosevic was in power. The report from the spot could not be made by any
other regime. That is logical, I think. But the forensic experts are very
precise in any regime I think, and there are photos, names, places, etc.
The report is linked from a Russian (very private) web site because they
made a mirror web site of former YU government site which was removed by the
actual NATO puppet regime in YU. Actual NATO servants to erase all traces of
their bosses' crimes. That explains all.
But you can see it here too. It is not a Russian link:
http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosovo\_crisis/destruction/white\_book/

Me and Milosevic? I never voted for him in my life.
Andrej


—– Original Message —–
From: "Wally Keeler" <[email protected]>
To: "Andrej Tisma" <[email protected]>; "RHIZOME" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 6:09 AM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME\_RAW: Re: Tisma's Flatline - Bush's greetings: Warry
Christmas!


> Andrej Tisma posts:
> >They are all here, with names, data, autopsy results, images
>
>http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/yugoslavia/milosevic/bela/bela/index.htm
>
> I would recommend that the artists of Rhizome check out this web site. Mr
> Tisma apparently places all his faith in this documentation. I examined
the
> first case with the purpose of learning whether the report supports Mr
> Tisma's assertion that "over 1000 children" were killed by NATO planes. I
> have not yet examined the entire report, but the first case in the lengthy
> report is quite revealing. The evidence is compiled and presented by the
> Ministry of the Interior of the Milosevic regime, and the site itself is
> maintained by Russia, not by the Jugoslavian state. Although Mr Tisma
takes
> pains to present his case as Yugoslavian, the report he presents refers
> only to the Republic of Serbia. It appears that the Jugoslavian people
via
> their democratically elected government have decided that the site is
> nothing more than the propaganda of the Milosevic regime and have rightly
> rejected it. Mr Tisma, whom I suspect is nothing more than a Serbian
> nationalist in the politically correct guise of a Yugoslav, is nothing
more
> than an agent of influence for the deposed Milosevic regime.
>
> =======================================
>
> BOMBING OF A REFUGEE COLUMN ON THE DJAKOVICA - PRIZREN ROAD, 14 APRIL 1999
>
> The opening paragraph:
> 'The first assault

Andrej Tisma posts:
>They are all here, with names, data, autopsy results, images
>http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/yugoslavia/milosevic/bela/bela/index.htm

I would recommend that the artists of Rhizome check out this web site. Mr
Tisma apparently places all his faith in this documentation. I examined the
first case with the purpose of learning whether the report supports Mr
Tisma's assertion that "over 1000 children" were killed by NATO planes. I
have not yet examined the entire report, but the first case in the lengthy
report is quite revealing. The evidence is compiled and presented by the
Ministry of the Interior of the Milosevic regime, and the site itself is
maintained by Russia, not by the Jugoslavian state. Although Mr Tisma takes
pains to present his case as Yugoslavian, the report he presents refers
only to the Republic of Serbia. It appears that the Jugoslavian people via
their democratically elected government have decided that the site is
nothing more than the propaganda of the Milosevic regime and have rightly
rejected it. Mr Tisma, whom I suspect is nothing more than a Serbian
nationalist in the politically correct guise of a Yugoslav, is nothing more
than an agent of influence for the deposed Milosevic regime.

=======================================

BOMBING OF A REFUGEE COLUMN ON THE DJAKOVICA - PRIZREN ROAD, 14 APRIL 1999

The opening paragraph:
'The first assault

Wally Keeler wrote:
>
> Andrej Tisma posts:
> >They are all here, with names, data, autopsy results, images
> >http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/yugoslavia/milosevic/bela/bela/index.htm
>
> I would recommend that the artists of Rhizome check out this web site. Mr
> Tisma apparently places all his faith in this documentation.

there are plenty more stats here if you'd like to add them up
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/340966.stm

and plenty of video evidence from NATO itself
http://www.nato.int/kosovo/video.htm

> Wally Keeler wrote:
> > Andrej Tisma posts:
> > >They are all here, with names, data, autopsy results, images
> >
>http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/yugoslavia/milosevic/bela/bela/index.htm
> >
> > I would recommend that the artists of Rhizome check out this web site.
Mr
> > Tisma apparently places all his faith in this documentation.
>
> there are plenty more stats here if you'd like to add them up
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/340966.stm

A much more reliable source, and more independent. Thanks, I'll add it up
also to see if it produces "more than 1000 children".
I presume that you have added it up also, or will you trust me?

> and plenty of video evidence from NATO itself
> http://www.nato.int/kosovo/video.htm

Good. Demonstrates that the military forces of Milosevic don't release any
videos of their own ethnic cleansing.

—– Original Message —–
From: "Andrej Tisma" <[email protected]>
> Yes, this report was made by "Milosevic regime" because in that time
> Milosevic was in power. The report from the spot could not be made by any
> other regime.

I supposed you would believe the reports put out by the Stalinist regime
because it was the regime at the time and could not be made by any other
regime.

> That is logical, I think. But the forensic experts are very
> precise in any regime I think,

Paid by the criminal regime of Milosevic, Arkan & co.

> and there are photos, names, places, etc.

Stalin also produced reports with names, places, photos. Big deal.

> The report is linked from a Russian (very private) web site because they
> made a mirror web site of former YU government site

So it is a private site, paid by whom?

> which was removed by the
> actual NATO puppet regime in YU. Actual NATO servants to erase all traces
of
> their bosses' crimes. That explains all.

What a crock of shit. The "NATO puppet regime" was freely elected
overwhelmingly by the remaining people of Yugoslavia. Are you suggesting
that the majority of people of Yugoslavia were spineless puppets who voted
as they were dictated to?


> But you can see it here too. It is not a Russian link:
> http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosovo\_crisis/destruction/white\_book/
> Me and Milosevic? I never voted for him in my life.

Not the point. The point is that you are not only a sucker for his stats,
but a mouthpiece for his ethnic cleansing regime.

> Andrej
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: "Wally Keeler" <[email protected]>
> To: "Andrej Tisma" <[email protected]>; "RHIZOME" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 6:09 AM
> Subject: Re: RHIZOME\_RAW: Re: Tisma's Flatline - Bush's greetings: Warry
> Christmas!
>
>
> > Andrej Tisma posts:
> > >They are all here, with names, data, autopsy results, images
> >
>
>http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/yugoslavia/milosevic/bela/bela/index.htm

> >
> > I would recommend that the artists of Rhizome check out this web site.
Mr
> > Tisma apparently places all his faith in this documentation. I examined
> the
> > first case with the purpose of learning whether the report supports Mr
> > Tisma's assertion that "over 1000 children" were killed by NATO planes.
I
> > have not yet examined the entire report, but the first case in the
lengthy
> > report is quite revealing. The evidence is compiled and presented by the
> > Ministry of the Interior of the Milosevic regime, and the site itself is
> > maintained by Russia, not by the Jugoslavian state. Although Mr Tisma
> takes
> > pains to present his case as Yugoslavian, the report he presents refers
> > only to the Republic of Serbia. It appears that the Jugoslavian people
> via
> > their democratically elected government have decided that the site is
> > nothing more than the propaganda of the Milosevic regime and have
rightly
> > rejected it. Mr Tisma, whom I suspect is nothing more than a Serbian
> > nationalist in the politically correct guise of a Yugoslav, is nothing
> more
> > than an agent of influence for the deposed Milosevic regime.
> >
> > =======================================
> >
> > BOMBING OF A REFUGEE COLUMN ON THE DJAKOVICA - PRIZREN ROAD, 14 APRIL
1999
> >
> > The opening paragraph:
> > 'The first assault

Wally Keely,
The whole world's progressive and free intellectuals are against NATO force
and crimes they did, and are still doing in this world. Just you are
defending them. Also all progressive people of this planet accuse American
regime policy but you defend it, although it is obvious that they commit
crimes day by day. So I have nothing more to add to this discussion.
Andrej


—– Original Message —–
From: "Wally Keeler" <[email protected]>
To: "Andrej Tisma" <[email protected]>; "RHIZOME" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME\_RAW: Re: Tisma's Flatline - Bush's greetings: Warry
Christmas!


> —– Original Message —–
> From: "Andrej Tisma" <[email protected]>
> > Yes, this report was made by "Milosevic regime" because in that time
> > Milosevic was in power. The report from the spot could not be made by
any
> > other regime.
>
> I supposed you would believe the reports put out by the Stalinist regime
> because it was the regime at the time and could not be made by any other
> regime.
>
> > That is logical, I think. But the forensic experts are very
> > precise in any regime I think,
>
> Paid by the criminal regime of Milosevic, Arkan & co.
>
> > and there are photos, names, places, etc.
>
> Stalin also produced reports with names, places, photos. Big deal.
>
> > The report is linked from a Russian (very private) web site because they
> > made a mirror web site of former YU government site
>
> So it is a private site, paid by whom?
>
> > which was removed by the
> > actual NATO puppet regime in YU. Actual NATO servants to erase all
traces
> of
> > their bosses' crimes. That explains all.
>
> What a crock of shit. The "NATO puppet regime" was freely elected
> overwhelmingly by the remaining people of Yugoslavia. Are you suggesting
> that the majority of people of Yugoslavia were spineless puppets who voted
> as they were dictated to?
>
>
> > But you can see it here too. It is not a Russian link:
> > http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosovo\_crisis/destruction/white\_book/
> > Me and Milosevic? I never voted for him in my life.
>
> Not the point. The point is that you are not only a sucker for his stats,
> but a mouthpiece for his ethnic cleansing regime.
>
> > Andrej
> >
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: "Wally Keeler" <[email protected]>
> > To: "Andrej Tisma" <[email protected]>; "RHIZOME" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 6:09 AM
> > Subject: Re: RHIZOME\_RAW: Re: Tisma's Flatline - Bush's greetings: Warry
> > Christmas!
> >
> >
> > > Andrej Tisma posts:
> > > >They are all here, with names, data, autopsy results, images
> > >
> >
>
>http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/yugoslavia/milosevic/bela/bela/index.htm
>
> > >
> > > I would recommend that the artists of Rhizome check out this web site.
> Mr
> > > Tisma apparently places all his faith in this documentation. I
examined
> > the
> > > first case with the purpose of learning whether the report supports Mr
> > > Tisma's assertion that "over 1000 children" were killed by NATO
planes.
> I
> > > have not yet examined the entire report, but the first case in the
> lengthy
> > > report is quite revealing. The evidence is compiled and presented by
the
> > > Ministry of the Interior of the Milosevic regime, and the site itself
is
> > > maintained by Russia, not by the Jugoslavian state. Although Mr Tisma
> > takes
> > > pains to present his case as Yugoslavian, the report he presents
refers
> > > only to the Republic of Serbia. It appears that the Jugoslavian
people
> > via
> > > their democratically elected government have decided that the site is
> > > nothing more than the propaganda of the Milosevic regime and have
> rightly
> > > rejected it. Mr Tisma, whom I suspect is nothing more than a Serbian
> > > nationalist in the politically correct guise of a Yugoslav, is nothing
> > more
> > > than an agent of influence for the deposed Milosevic regime.
> > >
> > > =======================================
> > >
> > > BOMBING OF A REFUGEE COLUMN ON THE DJAKOVICA - PRIZREN ROAD, 14 APRIL
> 1999
> > >
> > > The opening paragraph:
> > > 'The first assault

On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Andrej Tisma wrote:


> But also a dead Iraqi (or Yugoslavian) girl and her crying mother. Did you
> notice it too?

Yes, I did. And they weren't killed by "America".
And I wasn't emotionally knee-jerked by the matter.
It is indeed "sad" (as I am not implying an emotion)
that they died. However your work is NOT "pushing"
the audience towards making anything "useful" out
of it. It's just carrying an "easy" banner paired
with simplistic political propaganda and ridiculous
attempts at pushing infantile emotions–not invoking
anything real. Nor is it insightful.

In other words you're picking a "hot topic,"
making a sub-mediocre work about it, and expecting
everyone to clap their hands because the TOPIC IS
(assumed) IMPORTANT.

It may be, it may be not, but what you_ did isn't
"up". Regardless of your (assumed) "good topic".
What you are being "asked" is to make a strong work.

What's even worse, your work is targetted at eroding
"America" on an emotional level, and boogey-man
imagery. This an attempt to make "Americans"
weak. If they are "weak" they cannot act consciously.
If they cannot act consciously

a. you're contributing to their deaths
b. likely more Yugoslavians will die because
Americans will be "eroded" and react stupidly

De facto, you're perpetuating the process that
caused that *sob* dead girl and *sob* crying mother.
And you want the audience to *sob* tear-jerk and clap.
And even "worse" you're using THEIR tragedy for
"your" career. And it doesn't matter how many victims
you try to wave around. Nobody "needs" to be reminded
about these things. The journalistic media does a fine
job at seeking out and exploiting these things, even in
'America'. In fact, that's a fashionable way to make a
living. Nevermind that this kind of "reminders" are mere
attempts to imprint identification with victim mentality,
with simplistic "good" "bad" "the most responsible"
"judgements". And nevermind that pointing fingers at GROUPS
of humans is simply idiotic propaganda on par with racism.

You're not dancing even "near" the "issue."

Dear Kandinskij,
Thanks for so wide and deep analysis of my gif animation work "Warry
Christmas!". It was interesting for me to read it. But I think you also
missed the point. My motive was first of all Christmas time, greetings going
on everywhere, trough mailing lists, advertisements, media etc. It is a kind
of hysteria that comes in the eve of Dec. 25 every year. But I noticed that
many US Christmas sites are advertising war toys, soldiers, tanks,
destroyed, burned houses (for children to construct them?!), PC war game
"Desert Storm" for example, all that perhaps as a psychological preparation
for war on Iraq. That was my main motive, and "artistic inspiration" to call
attention on that deviation of this civilization.
But the main message of my work is the game of words "WARRY Christmas". I
wanted just that effect, not any "racist propaganda" as you are suggesting.
It was really a positive intention to call attention to a deviation in
contemporary civilization. Nothing more.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,
Andrej


—– Original Message —–
From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <[email protected]>
To: "Andrej Tisma" <[email protected]>
Cc: "RHIZOME" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Tisma's Flatline - Bush's greetings: Warry
Christmas!


> On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Andrej Tisma wrote:
>
>
> > But also a dead Iraqi (or Yugoslavian) girl and her crying mother. Did
you
> > notice it too?
>
> Yes, I did. And they weren't killed by "America".
> And I wasn't emotionally knee-jerked by the matter.
> It is indeed "sad" (as I am not implying an emotion)
> that they died. However your work is NOT "pushing"
> the audience towards making anything "useful" out
> of it. It's just carrying an "easy" banner paired
> with simplistic political propaganda and ridiculous
> attempts at pushing infantile emotions–not invoking
> anything real. Nor is it insightful.
>
> In other words you're picking a "hot topic,"
> making a sub-mediocre work about it, and expecting
> everyone to clap their hands because the TOPIC IS
> (assumed) IMPORTANT.
>
> It may be, it may be not, but what you_ did isn't
> "up". Regardless of your (assumed) "good topic".
> What you are being "asked" is to make a strong work.
>
> What's even worse, your work is targetted at eroding
> "America" on an emotional level, and boogey-man
> imagery. This an attempt to make "Americans"
> weak. If they are "weak" they cannot act consciously.
> If they cannot act consciously
>
> a. you're contributing to their deaths
> b. likely more Yugoslavians will die because
> Americans will be "eroded" and react stupidly
>
> De facto, you're perpetuating the process that
> caused that *sob* dead girl and *sob* crying mother.
> And you want the audience to *sob* tear-jerk and clap.
> And even "worse" you're using THEIR tragedy for
> "your" career. And it doesn't matter how many victims
> you try to wave around. Nobody "needs" to be reminded
> about these things. The journalistic media does a fine
> job at seeking out and exploiting these things, even in
> 'America'. In fact, that's a fashionable way to make a
> living. Nevermind that this kind of "reminders" are mere
> attempts to imprint identification with victim mentality,
> with simplistic "good" "bad" "the most responsible"
> "judgements". And nevermind that pointing fingers at GROUPS
> of humans is simply idiotic propaganda on par with racism.
>
> You're not dancing even "near" the "issue."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Wed, 25 Dec 2002, Andrej Tisma wrote:


> Thanks for so wide and deep analysis of my gif animation work "Warry
> Christmas!". It was interesting for me to read it.

There wasn't any "wide ansd deep analysis" Andrej.
There wasn't any_ analysis.

> But I think you also missed the point.

No, I didn't piss your point.
That's a nice trick isn't it?
Anybody who doesn't play along "missed your point".

> My motive was first of all Christmas time, greetings going
> on everywhere, trough mailing lists, advertisements, media etc. It is a kind
> of hysteria that comes in the eve of Dec. 25 every year.

What hysteria?

> But I noticed that
> many US Christmas sites are advertising war toys, soldiers, tanks,
> destroyed, burned houses (for children to construct them?!), PC war game
> "Desert Storm" for example, all that perhaps as a psychological preparation
> for war on Iraq.


Actually you have demonstrated no capacity to perceive what's going on.
Your web "site" simply attempts to use images, and strong "emotional"
issues for purposes of propaganda and suggestibility.

No matter how many times that you repeat that your "point" was missed,
it wasn't. You have no point. You're simply tossing about non-existent
cheap knee-jerks. And that was very accurately addressed in my
"analysis".


> That was my main motive,

No, it wasn't.

> and "artistic inspiration" to call
> attention on that deviation of this civilization.

"Deciation of what civilisation" Andrej?
You're simply spreading standard .yu propaganda.

> But the main message of my work is the game of words "WARRY Christmas". I
> wanted just that effect, not any "racist propaganda" as you are suggesting.

Actually I was not suggesting anything.
The impulse to bash large groups of humans based on
ethnogepgraphic & cultural situation is not anything you understand.

> It was really a positive intention to call attention to a deviation in
> contemporary civilization. Nothing more.

No it was not a "positive intention".
Perhaps one of those days you'll learn not to patronize your audience
with cheap sloganish statements.

As for "calling attention" or "contemporary civilization"
you neither know anything about, nor are you doing what you state.
Perhaps if you tried to read_ what was written in that "very
interesting analysis", all of this was already addressed.

In a very simple language even, for your benefit.

And yet you evade all of it repeatedly, just continuing with
"you missed the point" and "I am pointing to this important "evil"
problem". Let's trya gain and see if you hear it:

You're attempting to conjure up a non-existing frightful chimera,
and "direct our attention to it". You have no understanding of
the war in Iraq. You're not even ATTEMPTING to understand.
And your piece is flat posturing.

It doesn't matter how much you repeat your record tune, it doesn't ring.

> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,

Meaningless gibberish.