Re: Electronic Folk Art?!

Actually, perhaps the whole circuit bending genre, which depends
entirely on a "naive style" approach to reverse engineering, might be
one of the first that could be defined as folk art. I really like this
idea.

Is there a New Media "Outsider Art"?

Patrick Lichty
Editor-In-Chief
Intelligent Agent Magazine
http://www.intelligentagent.com
1556 Clough Street, #28
Bowling Green, OH 43402
225 288 5813
[email protected]

"It is better to die on your feet
than to live on your knees."


—–Original Message—–
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of curt cloninger
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Electronic Folk Art?!

cool.

check:
http://www.casperelectronics.com
http://www.anti-theory.com/soundart/
http://www.blingmethod.com

_

Angela Cachay Dwyer wrote:

> Do-it-yourself robotic toys, homebrew vidgames, ASCII images, homemade
> software - could these be a kind of 21st century folk art?
>
> Roundtable with artists and academics
> Surrey Art Gallery (Surrey, BC)
> Sunday, February 6, 2 - 3:30pm
> Free admission
> www.surreytechlab.ca
> Location and directions are available from the website
>
>
***********************************************************************
> What is electronic folk art?
> Is it an art practice that is culturally specific to North America?
> Is anyone who appropriates electronic toys, tools and software for
> their art an electronic folk artist?
> What are the possible forms of electronic folk art?
>
> Artists and academics will share their thoughts on these questions,
> and whether electronic folk art exists as a distinct area of
> contemporary art in general and/or within the realm of new media.
>
> The invited speakers are:
> * Diana Burgoyne (current exhibiting artist and PHD student in
> Interactive Arts, Simon Fraser University)
> * Don Krug (theorist; folk art researcher and curriculum specialist,
> University of British Columbia)
> * Leonard Paul (electronic music composer - lauded for his score for
> the film The Corporation, and video game audio instructor, Vancouver
> Film School)
> * Niranjan Rajah (theorist; curator and convenor, New Forms Festival
> 2005)
>
> Networking reception (3:30 - 5pm) following the Roundtable.
+
-> post: [email protected]
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+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

On Jan 25, 2005, at 6:37 AM, patrick lichty wrote:

> Is there a New Media "Outsider Art"?

Well, there's plenty of digital creativity that is done by people who
have no interest in contextualizing it in the world of fine arts, if
that's what you mean.

Sometimes I read an essay about the aesthetics of code by somebody who
doesn't program very much, and I think: It's like it's the 1980s, and
programmers are like Puerto Rican graffiti artists without MFAs.

Francis Hwang
Director of Technology
Rhizome.org
phone: 212-219-1288x202
AIM: francisrhizome
+ + +

color me stupid but almost all the first wave of software artists that
i know personally have no MFAs. i find it oxymoronic to need an MFA to
call yourself an artist these days. and does this mean PRicans can't
make art? don't make me go there ;-)


On Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005, at 11:02 America/New_York, Francis Hwang
wrote:

>
> On Jan 25, 2005, at 6:37 AM, patrick lichty wrote:
>
>> Is there a New Media "Outsider Art"?
>
> Well, there's plenty of digital creativity that is done by people who
> have no interest in contextualizing it in the world of fine arts, if
> that's what you mean.
>
> Sometimes I read an essay about the aesthetics of code by somebody who
> doesn't program very much, and I think: It's like it's the 1980s, and
> programmers are like Puerto Rican graffiti artists without MFAs.
>
> Francis Hwang
> Director of Technology
> Rhizome.org
> phone: 212-219-1288x202
> AIM: francisrhizome

>Is there a New Media "Outsider Art"?

Hi Patrick,
I've been trying to propagate an outsider.net.art meme for a while:
http://deepyoung.org/current/outsider/
http://deepyoung.org/current/dyskonceptual/
(my wife is almost finished sewing the prizes)
and
http://lab404.com/373/index.html#network
scroll down to "outsider art"

Two articles that seem at least obtusely appicable are Steve Dietz's
"Why Have There Been No Great Net Artists":
http://www.afsnitp.dk/onoff/Texts/dietzwhyhavether.html
and Anne-Marie Schleiner's "Fluidities and Oppositions among
Curators, Filter Feeders, and Future Artists":
http://www.intelligentagent.com/archive/Vol3_No1_curation_schleiner.html

In 2000, Irwin Chusid applied "outsider art" criteria to pop music
with some interesting results (
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/ASIN/B00006NSX1/ ). I'm writing
an article now that applies Dubuffet's "Neuve Invention" criteria to
pop music, and it's turning up an interesting bunch of musicians as
well (from Devendra Banhart to Cloudead).

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Some etymology and semantic clarification:

1. Dubuffet's strict definition of "Art Brut" circa 1945:
anything produced by people unsmirched by artistic culture… So
that the makers draw entirely on their own resources rather than on
the stereotypes of classical or fashionable art.

2. 1972, Roger Cardinal introduced the term "Outsider Art," intending
it to be a translation of "Art Brut" (which is probably better
translated "Raw Art," or so those who know French have said). The
term "Outsider Art" has since taken on a life of its own, becoming a
blanket term which can includes folk art, roadside art, and prisoner
art.

3. In 1982, Dubuffet acknowledged a looser genre of artists who were
neither "outsider" nor "inside." He called this new genre "Neuve
Invention" (which translates "Fresh Invention"). Fresh Invention
artists retain elements of Art Brut's self-taught genius; but they
are also academically trained, aware of current art trends, and not
crazy as loons.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So according to Dubuffet's definitions, it's going to be pretty tough
to find a pure Art Brut net artist (because the internet access
required for the "net art" part more or less diametrically opposes
the quarantine of influence required for the "Art Brut" part). But
you could easily find an electronic folk artist. And since "outsider
art" is a broad and loose term, you could still find an outsider net
artist.

To put a fine point on it for argument's sake, I'd say Larry Carlson
( http://www.larrycarlson.com ) is an outsider net artist, whereas
Cory Arcangel ( http://www.beigerecords.com/cory/ ) is best
considered a Neuve Invention new media artist.

regarding circuit bending, Bob Moog lives here in Asheville, North
Carolina. You could say he was the first to map circuit bending
capabilities to the external control console and let everybody in on
the fun:
http://stream.qtv.apple.com/qtv/plexifilm/moogshorttrailer_ref.mov

peace,
curt



>—–Original Message—–
>From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
>Of curt cloninger
>Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:54 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Electronic Folk Art?!
>
>cool.
>
>check:
>http://www.casperelectronics.com
>http://www.anti-theory.com/soundart/
>http://www.blingmethod.com
>
>_
>
>Angela Cachay Dwyer wrote:
>
>> Do-it-yourself robotic toys, homebrew vidgames, ASCII images, homemade
>> software - could these be a kind of 21st century folk art?
>>
>> Roundtable with artists and academics
>> Surrey Art Gallery (Surrey, BC)
>> Sunday, February 6, 2 - 3:30pm
>> Free admission
>> www.surreytechlab.ca
>> Location and directions are available from the website
>>
>>
>***********************************************************************
>> What is electronic folk art?
>> Is it an art practice that is culturally specific to North America?
> > Is anyone who appropriates electronic toys, tools and software for
>> their art an electronic folk artist?
>> What are the possible forms of electronic folk art?
>>
>> Artists and academics will share their thoughts on these questions,
>> and whether electronic folk art exists as a distinct area of
>> contemporary art in general and/or within the realm of new media.
>>
>> The invited speakers are:
>> * Diana Burgoyne (current exhibiting artist and PHD student in
>> Interactive Arts, Simon Fraser University)
>> * Don Krug (theorist; folk art researcher and curriculum specialist,
>> University of British Columbia)
>> * Leonard Paul (electronic music composer - lauded for his score for
>> the film The Corporation, and video game audio instructor, Vancouver
>> Film School)
>> * Niranjan Rajah (theorist; curator and convenor, New Forms Festival
>> 2005)
>>
> > Networking reception (3:30 - 5pm) following the Roundtable.

One needs an MFA to be an artist!!!?????

good thing MTAA has M.River for our bona fides.

And wasn't Max Herman the master of Electronic Folk Art?

On Jan 25, 2005, at 11:18 AM, liza sabater wrote:

> color me stupid but almost all the first wave of software artists that
> i know personally have no MFAs. i find it oxymoronic to need an MFA to
> call yourself an artist these days. and does this mean PRicans can't
> make art? don't make me go there ;-)
>
>
> On Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005, at 11:02 America/New_York, Francis Hwang
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jan 25, 2005, at 6:37 AM, patrick lichty wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a New Media "Outsider Art"?
>>
>> Well, there's plenty of digital creativity that is done by people who
>> have no interest in contextualizing it in the world of fine arts, if
>> that's what you mean.
>>
>> Sometimes I read an essay about the aesthetics of code by somebody
>> who doesn't program very much, and I think: It's like it's the 1980s,
>> and programmers are like Puerto Rican graffiti artists without MFAs.
>>

===
<twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
===

Sure you don't need an MFA to be an artist. But I do wish more
net.art.media.art.code.art.online.art was more integrated with and aware
of art history and practice. A lot of practice is just flailing around
on the margins, interesting but not advancing anything.
You don't need an MFA to be an artist, but you can easily not be an
artist without an MFA.
Ivan

t.whid wrote:

> One needs an MFA to be an artist!!!?????
>
> good thing MTAA has M.River for our bona fides.
>
> And wasn't Max Herman the master of Electronic Folk Art?
>
> On Jan 25, 2005, at 11:18 AM, liza sabater wrote:
>
>> color me stupid but almost all the first wave of software artists
>> that i know personally have no MFAs. i find it oxymoronic to need an
>> MFA to call yourself an artist these days. and does this mean PRicans
>> can't make art? don't make me go there ;-)
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005, at 11:02 America/New_York, Francis Hwang
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 25, 2005, at 6:37 AM, patrick lichty wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is there a New Media "Outsider Art"?
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, there's plenty of digital creativity that is done by people
>>> who have no interest in contextualizing it in the world of fine
>>> arts, if that's what you mean.
>>>
>>> Sometimes I read an essay about the aesthetics of code by somebody
>>> who doesn't program very much, and I think: It's like it's the
>>> 1980s, and programmers are like Puerto Rican graffiti artists
>>> without MFAs.
>>>
>
> ===
> <twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
> ===
>
>
> +
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php


–
Business Blogging <http://blog.telememetics.com/blog.html>

Once again, my sloppy terseness threatens to get me in trouble.

I certainly didn't mean that you need an MFA, or can't be Puerto Rican,
to be an artist. Maybe I mean that if you're a working class artist
with no formal art education, then your work is handicapped if you
don't care to get an MFA or learn how to write an artist's statement.
Just like if you are, say, a bunch of CS students who decide to turn an
entire building into a game of Tetris, the art world might take no
notice at all if you don't take the time to promote your work as art.



On Jan 25, 2005, at 11:58 AM, t.whid wrote:

> One needs an MFA to be an artist!!!?????
>
> good thing MTAA has M.River for our bona fides.
>
> And wasn't Max Herman the master of Electronic Folk Art?
>
> On Jan 25, 2005, at 11:18 AM, liza sabater wrote:
>
>> color me stupid but almost all the first wave of software artists
>> that i know personally have no MFAs. i find it oxymoronic to need an
>> MFA to call yourself an artist these days. and does this mean PRicans
>> can't make art? don't make me go there ;-)
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005, at 11:02 America/New_York, Francis Hwang
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 25, 2005, at 6:37 AM, patrick lichty wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is there a New Media "Outsider Art"?
>>>
>>> Well, there's plenty of digital creativity that is done by people
>>> who have no interest in contextualizing it in the world of fine
>>> arts, if that's what you mean.
>>>
>>> Sometimes I read an essay about the aesthetics of code by somebody
>>> who doesn't program very much, and I think: It's like it's the
>>> 1980s, and programmers are like Puerto Rican graffiti artists
>>> without MFAs.
>>>
>
> ===
> <twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
> ===
>
>
> +
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
Francis Hwang
Director of Technology
Rhizome.org
phone: 212-219-1288x202
AIM: francisrhizome
+ + +

On Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005, at 12:31 America/New_York, Francis Hwang
wrote:

> Once again, my sloppy terseness threatens to get me in trouble.

heh.
you left yourself wide open.
i couldn't resist.

peace,
liza

Ivan Pope wrote:

> Sure you don't need an MFA to be an artist. But I do wish more
> net.art.media.art.code.art.online.art was more integrated with and
> aware
> of art history and practice. A lot of practice is just flailing
> around
> on the margins, interesting but not advancing anything.
> You don't need an MFA to be an artist, but you can easily not be an
> artist without an MFA.


read an interesting article in BUSINESS WEEK about the "value" of an MBA. Turns out that MBA students are performing below those who do not have them, but have "life" experience and who where blessed with an entepenurial "flare."

Art school, like business school is a huge cash cow for the institutions who offer MFA degrees. Theory, it turns out, has little to no effect on the quality of the "product." You either have it or you don't– one does not learn esthetics, one does not teach another how to create something that has in it "the touch of the divine." (to steal a line from leonardo de vinci).

An MFA has helped me write artist statements that have, in turn won me a few grants… I can amaze and amuse at cocktail parties, and when I visit the Museum, I know what I am looking at. For that I paid dearly! My Law degree did even less good… but I digress.

Outsider art: perhaps we need to redefine that as one who is creating art without consciously being aware that one is creating art. For example the schizophrenic who creates intricate fractals- not for their beauty, but to settle his/her mind. or the disturbed women at Saint Elizabeths in Washington DC, who in the 20's crochet complicated scenes of early 19th century children in order to make sense of her own abuse as a child…

yes- perhaps we need to pause a bit before we through our paper degrees in other's faces. Yes- we are members of a club, but it is after all a club that is not terribly hard to get into, just expensive to do so.

Cheers!