J.KOONS ABOUT MANIK'S NEW WORKS

On 17 Jun 2006, at 14:53, manik wrote:

> "MANIK'S WORKS CONSTRUCT ROMANTIC,MELANCHOLY,AND OTHERWISE RICHLY
> DRAMATIC NARRATIVES
> ABOUT PAST,PRESENT,AND FUTURE OF INDIVIDUALS INTERSUBJECTIVE
> RELATIONSHIP."
>
> J.KOONS ABOUT MANIK'S NEW
> WORKS,JUNE 2006.

Ro-co-co.

Jeff Koons is still one of my favorite artists, I think 99% of people
miss the point of his work, which isn't the market or sales or
appropriation, it's the social, institutional aesthetics of the
distributions of market, sales, and appropriation. It's a feedback
loop: the point is making him rich, and making him rich is the point.

It's insincere commercialism all the way down, but the surplus value
of the spiral is social content. It's like reality TV, only his life
really is what he's acting.

The posters of the basketball players and the frozen basketballs,
it's the kind of algebra that Virilio does with words done on
iconography, with social indexes rather than philosophical indexes.
The balloon puppy is the aqualung for a man who has a life to lose,
and has lost some of it.

More people should give Jeff Koons more of a chance.

- Rob.

Rob Myers wrote:

> On 17 Jun 2006, at 14:53, manik wrote:
>
> > "MANIK'S WORKS CONSTRUCT ROMANTIC,MELANCHOLY,AND OTHERWISE RICHLY
> > DRAMATIC NARRATIVES
> > ABOUT PAST,PRESENT,AND FUTURE OF INDIVIDUALS INTERSUBJECTIVE
> > RELATIONSHIP."
> >
> > J.KOONS ABOUT MANIK'S NEW
>
> > WORKS,JUNE 2006.
>
> Ro-co-co.
>
> Jeff Koons is still one of my favorite artists, I think 99% of people
>
> miss the point of his work, which isn't the market or sales or
> appropriation, it's the social, institutional aesthetics of the
> distributions of market, sales, and appropriation. It's a feedback
> loop: the point is making him rich, and making him rich is the point.
>
> It's insincere commercialism all the way down, but the surplus value
> of the spiral is social content. It's like reality TV, only his life
>
> really is what he's acting.
>
> The posters of the basketball players and the frozen basketballs,
> it's the kind of algebra that Virilio does with words done on
> iconography, with social indexes rather than philosophical indexes.
> The balloon puppy is the aqualung for a man who has a life to lose,
> and has lost some of it.
>
> More people should give Jeff Koons more of a chance.
>
> - Rob.
I don't know Rob, the Virilio metaphor is a stretch. Virilio endorses Karlheinz Stockhausen's claim that the 911 suicides were tragic works of art on a global scale, engaging the instant media with images that will forever be burned into the collective memory. He even states that the panic created can be seen as a development and extension of the Austrian Self Mutilationists of the 70's. I doubt that he would support someone as bland, and corporate as Koons. You can't get here from there without some danger in a world bathed in imagery. How can Koons be so comfortable?
Interventionists like CAE seem far more engaging, and relevant.
He isn't endorsing the act, just illuminating the tragedy.
I honestly can't look at Koons, or many other artists from the 80's and 90's the same way after 911.
Until this is somehow concluded, and I have no idea how it will be met and assimilated, we are still in the same state we were 4 1/2 years ago.
Eric

> On 17 Jun 2006, at 14:53, manik wrote:
>
> > "MANIK'S WORKS CONSTRUCT ROMANTIC,MELANCHOLY,AND OTHERWISE RICHLY
> > DRAMATIC NARRATIVES
> > ABOUT PAST,PRESENT,AND FUTURE OF INDIVIDUALS INTERSUBJECTIVE
> > RELATIONSHIP."
> >
> > J.KOONS ABOUT MANIK'S NEW
>
> > WORKS,JUNE 2006.
>

18-06-2006 06:18 Eric Dymond wrote:
>I don't know Rob, the Virilio metaphor is a stretch.

MANIK:I don't know Eric,losing chastity is a stretch.

>Virilio endorses Karlheinz Stockhausen's claim that the 911 suicides were =
tragic works of art on a global scale, >engaging the instant media with ima=
ges that will forever be burned into the collective memory. He even states =
that >the panic created can be seen as a development and extension of the A=
ustrian Self Mutilationists of the 70's.

MANIK:Could you give us your own interpretation of 911?We don't understand =
your view trough veil of Virilio/Stockhausen glasses.So…what if "Virilio =
endorses Karlheinz Stockhausen's claim that the 911 suicides were tragic wo=
rks of art…"?Is there some trace you could find non-consistenncy?Is someb=
ody's opservation wrong by default if you couldn't find confirmation of you=
r own insight in matter?


> I doubt that he would support someone as bland, and corporate as Koons.
MANIK:We shouldn't take your suspicion serious,actualy we don't care for th=
em .As mature man you should take care about your words.

>You can't get here from there without some danger in a world bathed in ima=
gery. How can Koons be so comfortable?
>Interventionists like CAE seem far more engaging, and relevant.
MANIK:Rob already explained "how can Koons be so comfortable",and why he c=
an be "so comfortable".(What do you think,he wrote to kill some time?)
It's just double transformation you obvious can't falow.

>He isn't endorsing the act, just illuminating the tragedy.
MANIK:Who of them?

>I honestly can't look at Koons, or many other artists from the 80's and 9=
0's the same way after 911.

MANIK:Isn't it your problem?We could(perhaps) talk about completely differe=
nt aproach to aesthetic substance between you and MANIK/Rob,but what you ca=
n,or can not look…
We are not interested in your private daydreams.We are unpleasant suprised =
with your mail,so what?
If you still think that fact that you are American excuse your superficial,=
or just mentioned of 911 provoke
empathy and all kind of question in every single soul on the world…you ar=
e wrong.

>Until this is somehow concluded, and I have no idea how it will be met and=
assimilated, we are still in the same state >we were 4 1/2 years ago.
MANIK:Who is in same state?MANIK already explain in his article directed to=
Manovich(via Rhizom_Raw,Saturday, December 10, 2005 4:08 AM)what he think =
about "WE" and have no need to repeat that for this occasion.Essence's that
when you said "we"that assume much more than we(MANIK)said same word.So "we=
"don't acept your "we"in sense you mean, when you said "we"…
There's joke about Serb in Sweden.He wrote home:"They stay behind us twenty=
years.In Sweden is stil good life."

And,finaly,kind gesture of J.Koons who agree to wrote few words about our w=
ork show his good upbringing.
MANIK

On 18 Jun 2006, at 05:18, Eric Dymond wrote:

> I don't know Rob, the Virilio metaphor is a stretch.

Oh I certainly wouldn't compare the totality of Koons's work with the
totality of Virilio's work ,I meant a particular method of Virilio's
with words (or concepts). The algebra-like way he treats them sometimes.

> I honestly can't look at Koons, or many other artists from the 80's
> and 90's the same way after 911.

If we conceded the apologists' claim that 9/11 was about social
inequality and frustration, Koons's work would have even more
relevance now than before.

- Rob.