Re: RHIZOME_RAW:In short, how to deal with War or, how art has...sorry had, the potential to stop conflict .

On Wednesday 19 Mar 2003 7:04 am, you wrote:
> I'm sorry about the tone of my last email. I should have explained my
> feelings on your response to my letter instead of being a reactionary.
>
> It struck me that I wrote something that was extremely self critical, and
> that you then jumped in to make it even more critical. It's almost like
> when someone does a parody of a movie that was a parody in the first place,
> and they have no idea that it was a parody. It just looks gratuitously
> insulting. Like if I am writing that I was affected by the death of this
> girl, and that it made me understand this thing about me that sucks and
> that I want to change, but in a way that is genuine, like, why do you have
> to be like "Yeah you sure do suck" ? Is that what you wanted to
> accomplish? Because what it seemed like you were trying to do is insult me,
> and I can't understand why, when I was trying to be honest about something
> that matters to me.
>
> Is that what you want to do with your freedom? I mean if it is, that's
> fine. I just don't see why you would want to use your freedom to try and
> make people feel lousy about themselves. I mean freedom comes with some
> responsibility. Even the most die hard anarchists accept that.
>
> Cheers,
> -e.
It was'nt an insult to you. I was just usung the text I found. It was an
arbitrary decision to use your email.
I was trying to express something I've been feeling that happens when I play
devils advocate………kind of questioning where does the line get drawn.
I was also trying to be honest about the potential I have to be luosy without
guilt, and why should freedom carry the burdon of responsibility ?
JOn
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: "jon davey" <[email protected]>
> To: "Eryk Salvaggio" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 9:53 PM
> Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW:In short, how to deal with War or, how art
> has…sorry had, the potential to stop conflict .
>
> On Tuesday 18 Mar 2003 6:44 pm, you wrote:
> > You don't have the right to use my words in this manner. Refrain from
>
> doing
>
> > so in the future.
> >
> > -e.
>
> I can do what I want. It's called freedom.
> Jon
>
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: "jon davey" <[email protected]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 4:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW:In short, how to deal with War or, how art
> > has…sorry had, the potential to stop conflict .
> >
> > > On Tuesday 18 Mar 2003 8:17 am, Eryk Salvaggio wrote:
> > > > Rachel Corrie got run over by a bulldozer when she stood with a
> > > > bright orange jumper and a bullhorn in front of a Palestinian home
> > > > that was
> >
> > being
> >
> > > > demolished. That means I have lost my right to sit around and
> > > > complain
> > >
> > > whilst doing nothing. Although I will continue to because I actually
> > > don't
> > >
> > > > even give a shit about war…… I could be in front of a
> > > > Palestinian bulldozer too.
> > > >
> > > > I would love to think I do, and I think a lot of other people do too,
> >
> > but I
> >
> > > > for one do nothing except write emails. This is something I'm proud
> > > > of
> >
> > and
> >
> > > it is something I understand. If I (we) pretended I (we) knew what
> > > death was/is I might be better at living it. That is an essential
> > > gender
> > >
> > > > difference between men and women. It's no excuse though, however I
> > > > can
> >
> > say
> >
> > > > that I don't really ever want to know how to make myself feel
> > > > empathy.
> > > >
> > > > Rachel Corries murder to me is as huge as September 11th. It is the
> >
> > totally
> >
> > > > comprehensible sequel. An American who has no ties to Palestine
> > > > except
> >
> > for
> >
> > > > her own outrage at Palestinian slaughter goes to a non violent
> > > > protest
> >
> > in
> >
> > > > an area that most people literally kill to get out of, and then she
> > > > is brialliantly run over by an Israeli Tractor. Our "allies" are
> > > > Nazis, and
> >
> > I
> >
> > > > am sitting outside Auschwitz writing emails about how bummed out I am
> > > > by it, pretending that makes a difference- or that any action
> > > > "against war"
> >
> > is
> >
> > > > going to make any difference…….he : )
> > >
> > > Is there something beautiful in false empowerment ?, I don't
> >
> > know……
> >
> > > what it is anyway, in fact, I feel like pissing on thier graves. I
> > > don't
> >
> > even
> >
> > > want to know what the alternative is to my own apathy, the apathy I
> > > have
> >
> > when
> >
> > > I am not pretending I am a compassionate………or something like that
> > >
> > > :- )
> > > :
> > > > , because a compassionate person does more than this. However it is
> > > > part
> >
> > of
> >
> > > > my work to just sit aside and LOOK at how I look at it until I am
> > > > blue in the face? The desire to rush out and control the things I
> > > > don't
>
> like
>
> > is
> >
> > > > overpowering sometimes. I know what the right thing to do about it
> > > > is. But I know that it isn't writing about it. However I will
> > > > continue
> >
> > to
> >
> > > write about it……seems to be the big thing these days……that and
> > > pictures.
> > >
> > > > Iraqi men and women may be huddled together waiting for bombs to drop
> > > > on thier heads but fuck em.
> > >
> > > To have all your oxygen sucked out by a "daisy" cutter is'nt nice,
> > > but
> > >
> > > > thier life means so little to me that I- a moderately well known
> >
> > internet
> >
> > > > artist- wrote an email about it, so they should be FUCKING grateful
> > > > !.
> > >
> > > Better yet,
> > >
> > > > maybe I will make some good art about it that will really elevate
>
> thier
>
> > > deaths
> > >
> > > > by transformation.
> > > >
> > > > I have this creeping suspicion lately that GW Bush actually "knows"
> > > > that he's a badass! Also that war is useless, but that he is choosing
> > > > to do it anyway, because he can, and because he really believes it is
> > > > better
> >
> > for
> >
> > > > art that he does it, and that he isn't even really thinking about the
> > > > oil so much as what a good place this planet will be when Saddam is
> >
> > gone.
> >
> > > > So I don't know if GW Bush is "overhearing" our conversations at
> >
> > rhizome,
> >
> > > > but if he is, I think I should try to say something even more
> > > > relevant
> >
> > than
> >
> > > > how bad war is, since like I said, I think he knows, in fact he
> > > > probably knows more than all of us know. But you know what, I know
> > > > pretty much a
> >
> > lot
> >
> > > > of stuff about war, and GW does too, and I am not doing anything, so
> > > > I guess I can't expect GW to, either.
> > > >
> > > > What I would like to do is to a piece where war is pretty awesome.
>
> Sure
>
> > > people know that peace is "cool" because no one is trying to control
> >
> > anyone
> >
> > > and no one is
> > >
> > > > super crazy hung up on right or wrong or what should be or what
> >
> > shouldn't
> >
> > > > be and what roles people are supposed to play in thier own lives and
> >
> > which
> >
> > > phillosipher is trendy and which is the best mp3 player. But like
> > >
> > > > I said, people know peace is cool and they know that clouds are nice
>
> to
>
> > > > look at. But war is awesome!!!.. This is'nt going to be hard really,
> > > > I
> >
> > have
> >
> > > a sneaking suspicion that even working on that will be a lot more
> >
> > productive
> >
> > > than what I have been doing, which is sending emails to a bunch of
>
> people
>
> > who
> >
> > > have no power : (
> > >
> > > > , and reading a lot of stuff so that I can be well informed about the
> >
> > stuff
> >
> > > I am doing nothing about. The two choices, the decision I want to make
>
> is
>
> > > pretty obvious…………….It's pretty…..it's war and I'm sooo
> > > glad I chose to be an artist rather than a
> > > soldig……solg………si……..military person.
> > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Jon Davey
> > >
> > > > —– Original Message —–
> > > > From: "Rachel Greene" <[email protected]>
> > > > To: "rhizome list" <[email protected]>
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 6:14 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: New Art Ideas Update
> > > >
> > > > > > since it seems to be a slow day here on Rhizome,
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks dude. I don't know about anyone else, but I am so gutted by
> > > > > the
> > > >
> > > > news
> > > >
> > > > > I can't really think straight.
> > > > >
> > > > > We didn't even elect this guy! And his arrogance and disregard for
> >
> > public
> >
> > > > > opinion – it often doesn't seem real.
> > > > >
> > > > > My last white hope is that senators will en masse resign causing an
> > > >
> > > > internal
> > > >
> > > > > crisis, a la British Minister Cook, but that IS completely
> > > > > unlikely.
> > > > >
> > > > > politically depressed, rachel
> > > > >
> > > > > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > > > > -> post: [email protected]
> > > > > -> questions: [email protected]
> > > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >
> > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >
> > > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > > > > +
> > > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > > > > Membership Agreement available online at
> >
> > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
> > > > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > > > -> post: [email protected]
> > > > -> questions: [email protected]
> > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
>
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>
> > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > > > +
> > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > > > Membership Agreement available online at
>
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> > > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > > -> post: [email protected]
> > > -> questions: [email protected]
> > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > > +
> > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

On Thu, 20 Mar 2003, jon davey wrote:

> It was'nt an insult to you. I was just usung the text I found. It was an
> arbitrary decision to use your email.

Arbitrary as in "I renounce responsibility for my actions"?
Or as in I have no idea what I'm doing but I'm bumping
into the other humans?

> I was trying to express something I've been feeling that happens when I play
> devils advocate………

Sure you were. Just like you "are" right now.

> kind of questioning where does the line get drawn.

Yes, an "arbitrary punch" to the face of some random person.
Truly, it is a bar brawl.

> I was also trying to be honest about the potential I have to be luosy
> without guilt,

Let's "hope" more humans think like that–and let's hope
they choose to "express" playing devil's advocate by
robbing your house, or beating you up. What do you think?
Or do you think "internal" violence is justified?


> and why should freedom carry the burdon of responsibility ?

It does. There is no "why". Freedom without responsibility
is a knee-jerk dellusionary fantasy of the brain–and of humans
who haven't had contact w/freedom.

But like "most humans" you're mesmerized by your shadow
and totally ruled by it–why take responsibility for yourself indeed.
Why be free when you can be a wound-up slave?

We mean, could the *brain* know anything besides chasing its tail?
And why would a dog *want* to stop chasing its tail?

And what is this boy's SHADOW ruled by and why?
Is your attack *really* that arbitrary, or should we
believe the picture you so *interestedly* project?

And by golly, wouldn't you be attempting to use
conversation as a method of propagation of delusions?