wordgames for beginners II

Take opportunity to made art,even aesthetic,in war time and use that
production for self promotion is awful.But I'm artist.If I were
capitalist,my work against war could bee named as capitalistic,even
turbocapitalistic.So,Vijay,make love not art,or…something like that.Your
carefully listener
MANIK
—– Original Message —–
From: "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:46 PM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II


> part II:
>
> didn't mean that the anti/art/war posts were superficial
>
> I just meant that propaganda and war and leadership
>
> are artistic
>
>
> even aesthetic
>
>
>
> The Japanese gave their warplanes names like "swooping crane"
>
>
>
> ————————————————————
> Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
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> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>

Christa Wolf, I think it was, once said "How can there be poetry after Auschwitz?"

I still can't respond to that question.

Vijay

> "manik" <[email protected]> "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners IIDate: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:30:01 +0100
>Reply-To: "manik" <[email protected]>
>
>Take opportunity to made art,even aesthetic,in war time and use that
>production for self promotion is awful.But I'm artist.If I were
>capitalist,my work against war could bee named as capitalistic,even
>turbocapitalistic.So,Vijay,make love not art,or…something like that.Your
>carefully listener
>MANIK
>—– Original Message —–
>From: "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:46 PM
>Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II
>
>
>> part II:
>>
>> didn't mean that the anti/art/war posts were superficial
>>
>> I just meant that propaganda and war and leadership
>>
>> are artistic
>>
>>
>> even aesthetic
>>
>>
>>
>> The Japanese gave their warplanes names like "swooping crane"
>>
>>
>>
>> ————————————————————
>> Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
>> Register Online Here -> http://www.junglist.com
>>
>>
>> ———————————————————————
>> Express yourself with a super cool email address from BigMailBox.com.
>> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
>> http://www.bigmailbox.com
>> ———————————————————————
>> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
>> -> post: [email protected]
>> -> questions: [email protected]
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>>
>
>
>
>+ ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
>-> post: [email protected]
>-> questions: [email protected]
>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>+
>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php




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Did anyone ask you?
MANIK
—– Original Message —–
From: "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II


> Christa Wolf, I think it was, once said "How can there be poetry after
Auschwitz?"
>
> I still can't respond to that question.
>
> Vijay
>
> > "manik" <[email protected]> "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners IIDate: Tue, 18
Feb 2003 17:30:01 +0100
> >Reply-To: "manik" <[email protected]>
> >
> >Take opportunity to made art,even aesthetic,in war time and use that
> >production for self promotion is awful.But I'm artist.If I were
> >capitalist,my work against war could bee named as capitalistic,even
> >turbocapitalistic.So,Vijay,make love not art,or…something like
that.Your
> >carefully listener
> >MANIK
> >—– Original Message —–
> >From: "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:46 PM
> >Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II
> >
> >
> >> part II:
> >>
> >> didn't mean that the anti/art/war posts were superficial
> >>
> >> I just meant that propaganda and war and leadership
> >>
> >> are artistic
> >>
> >>
> >> even aesthetic
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The Japanese gave their warplanes names like "swooping crane"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ————————————————————
> >> Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
> >> Register Online Here -> http://www.junglist.com
> >>
> >>
> >> ———————————————————————
> >> Express yourself with a super cool email address from BigMailBox.com.
> >> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
> >> http://www.bigmailbox.com
> >> ———————————————————————
> >> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> >> -> post: [email protected]
> >> -> questions: [email protected]
> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> +
> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >+ ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> >-> post: [email protected]
> >-> questions: [email protected]
> >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >+
> >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
>
>
> ————————————————————
> Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
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>
> ———————————————————————
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> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
> http://www.bigmailbox.com
> ———————————————————————
>
>
>

Hehe…no, I just meant that I didn't know how to reconcile that statement with how I felt about art/etc. I think Joao put it well, though, that poetry restores the human face to the world after the brutality of war, to "pick up the pieces" in a way.

I think that's what Christa Wolf achieved in _Cassandra_, anyway.

Maybe I didn't understand your post…maybe you were making a joke? An insult? In which case I didn't mean to offend you in the first place…


-Vijay



> "manik" <[email protected]> "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners IIDate: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:30:54 +0100
>Reply-To: "manik" <[email protected]>
>
>Did anyone ask you?
>MANIK
>—– Original Message —–
>From: "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
>Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 8:48 AM
>Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II
>
>
>> Christa Wolf, I think it was, once said "How can there be poetry after
>Auschwitz?"
>>
>> I still can't respond to that question.
>>
>> Vijay
>>
>> > "manik" <[email protected]> "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>,
><[email protected]> Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners IIDate: Tue, 18
>Feb 2003 17:30:01 +0100
>> >Reply-To: "manik" <[email protected]>
>> >
>> >Take opportunity to made art,even aesthetic,in war time and use that
>> >production for self promotion is awful.But I'm artist.If I were
>> >capitalist,my work against war could bee named as capitalistic,even
>> >turbocapitalistic.So,Vijay,make love not art,or…something like
>that.Your
>> >carefully listener
>> >MANIK
>> >—– Original Message —–
>> >From: "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>
>> >To: <[email protected]>
>> >Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:46 PM
>> >Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II
>> >
>> >
>> >> part II:
>> >>
>> >> didn't mean that the anti/art/war posts were superficial
>> >>
>> >> I just meant that propaganda and war and leadership
>> >>
>> >> are artistic
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> even aesthetic
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The Japanese gave their warplanes names like "swooping crane"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ————————————————————
>> >> Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
>> >> Register Online Here -> http://www.junglist.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ———————————————————————
>> >> Express yourself with a super cool email address from BigMailBox.com.
>> >> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
>> >> http://www.bigmailbox.com
>> >> ———————————————————————
>> >> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
>> >> -> post: [email protected]
>> >> -> questions: [email protected]
>> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> >> +
>> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> >> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >+ ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
>> >-> post: [email protected]
>> >-> questions: [email protected]
>> >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> >+
>> >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ————————————————————
>> Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
>> Register Online Here -> http://www.junglist.com
>>
>>
>> ———————————————————————
>> Express yourself with a super cool email address from BigMailBox.com.
>> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
>> http://www.bigmailbox.com
>> ———————————————————————
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>+ ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
>-> post: [email protected]
>-> questions: [email protected]
>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>+
>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php




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Uhhhhh,poetry must make new,human face to people who are deeply in
evel?Pedro?But,what are you think about Derida…etc.Isn't that most urgent
qvestion?War as a important issue desapired because,by the way,some Dyske
have a cop of tea with…Cage!(par lui meme).So,Vijay,"rhizome"is one of
lightest fluxes.Chat on "rhizome"is vesting time.Have you made some money on
"rhizome"?What do you expect?That somebody see and feel your respectable
personality…They make joke on me,Marc(ask me why am I angre on Atty).Isn't
that so obviesly.His qvestion explaind all.People like Marc…etc.see only
surface,my english.Unfortunetly thay dont see meening of their own
language.Butheway PAROLE is what you wright,LANGUAGE is something you
talk.There's no hard conection between them.Actualy I like your
way,Vijay,but what's that meen in deconstruction world of
"rhizome".Actualy,I like that you are reflex of East mind.I dont qvit from
"rhizome"because there's allways stupid persons,worth to bee seen as a
simtom(Wally Keller,Atty,…and so many other).In my counry,Serbia,I have no
position.My last position is,paradoxaly,on "rhizome".Dont like anybody,dont
respect….dont care for …..I'm in superposition.I dont care for "rhizom"!
All best
MANIK
—– Original Message —–
From: "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II


> Hehe…no, I just meant that I didn't know how to reconcile that statement
with how I felt about art/etc. I think Joao put it well, though, that poetry
restores the human face to the world after the brutality of war, to "pick up
the pieces" in a way.
>
> I think that's what Christa Wolf achieved in _Cassandra_, anyway.
>
> Maybe I didn't understand your post…maybe you were making a joke? An
insult? In which case I didn't mean to offend you in the first place…
>
>
> -Vijay
>
>
>
> > "manik" <[email protected]> "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners IIDate: Thu, 20
Feb 2003 09:30:54 +0100
> >Reply-To: "manik" <[email protected]>
> >
> >Did anyone ask you?
> >MANIK
> >—– Original Message —–
> >From: "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>
> >To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 8:48 AM
> >Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II
> >
> >
> >> Christa Wolf, I think it was, once said "How can there be poetry after
> >Auschwitz?"
> >>
> >> I still can't respond to that question.
> >>
> >> Vijay
> >>
> >> > "manik" <[email protected]> "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>,
> ><[email protected]> Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners IIDate: Tue,
18
> >Feb 2003 17:30:01 +0100
> >> >Reply-To: "manik" <[email protected]>
> >> >
> >> >Take opportunity to made art,even aesthetic,in war time and use that
> >> >production for self promotion is awful.But I'm artist.If I were
> >> >capitalist,my work against war could bee named as capitalistic,even
> >> >turbocapitalistic.So,Vijay,make love not art,or…something like
> >that.Your
> >> >carefully listener
> >> >MANIK
> >> >—– Original Message —–
> >> >From: "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>
> >> >To: <[email protected]>
> >> >Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:46 PM
> >> >Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> part II:
> >> >>
> >> >> didn't mean that the anti/art/war posts were superficial
> >> >>
> >> >> I just meant that propaganda and war and leadership
> >> >>
> >> >> are artistic
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> even aesthetic
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> The Japanese gave their warplanes names like "swooping crane"
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ————————————————————
> >> >> Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
> >> >> Register Online Here -> http://www.junglist.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
>> ———————————————————————
> >> >> Express yourself with a super cool email address from
BigMailBox.com.
> >> >> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
> >> >> http://www.bigmailbox.com
> >>
>> ———————————————————————
> >> >> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> >> >> -> post: [email protected]
> >> >> -> questions: [email protected]
> >> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >> >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> >> +
> >> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >> >> Membership Agreement available online at
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >+ ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> >> >-> post: [email protected]
> >> >-> questions: [email protected]
> >> >-> subscribe/unsubscribe:
http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >> >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> >+
> >> >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >> >Membership Agreement available online at
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ————————————————————
> >> Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
> >> Register Online Here -> http://www.junglist.com
> >>
> >>
> >> ———————————————————————
> >> Express yourself with a super cool email address from BigMailBox.com.
> >> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
> >> http://www.bigmailbox.com
> >> ———————————————————————
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >+ ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> >-> post: [email protected]
> >-> questions: [email protected]
> >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >+
> >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
>
>
> ————————————————————
> Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
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>
> ———————————————————————
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> http://www.bigmailbox.com
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>
>

Hi:

Poetry for me is the art to make new connections, unsuspected connection=
s that pre-exists in reality, but the social grid where we are trapped, don=
't let us see this potentialities, because the force of habit leads us to t=
he old same place. In our mind are a grid of concepts, that defines what a =
certain object means, what signified correspond to a certain significant. T=
hat's the structure of the recognized system of meaning: language frames th=
at's identity. Trough this frames, we see our world. Gadamer in "Hermeneuti=
cs" called this preconceptions, a preconceive reality that's only exists in=
our own minds. Now, poetry wrangles this connections between concepts: poe=
try don't accept the established relations between thought objects. In poet=
ry, the unforeseen is the rule. Un Coup de Des jamais n'abolira le hasard=
. The title of Stephane Mallarme, also the theme from a Man Ray film, r=
esume the work of the art: the unsuitable, the unseasonably and sudden tran=
sition from the preconceive idea, to a real image that happening like a rev=
elation of something, for the first time. A process where are playing two f=
actors: deconstruction and construction, construction and deconstruction, t=
he factors order are irrelevant. The accident suffered by The Large Glass o=
f Duchamp could be a good exemple of the unsuitable in art. After the accid=
ent, the fractures of the broken glass on Duchamp work, becoming parts of h=
er work in a natural way.

About war, in my manner of thinking, it's only a way to a economical end=
. The link between freedom and deconstruction it's broken in the logic of w=
ar! Also in war, there's destruction, not deconstruction. The last proposit=
ion it's not a simple game of words: destruction represents a dead tantaliz=
ation, deconstruction it's referent of dead as interstices voids of reality=
, like in a chess game, where the empty places of the board, allows to play=
and move the chess-pieces. So, dead have a positive side, when dead makes =
possible the transition, from one state of things to another. The process o=
f conscience work that way: you die to a thought, to live to a new thought.=
But the face of Occidental man, made by the totalitarian grid of the same,=
it's a face of dead. And the Occidental territory, have the resemblance of=
a desert! The desert grows, then, art need deconstruct the usual connectio=
ns, to interpret the signs of the power language. William Greider, the auth=
or of Who Will Tell the People, already had declared that we are in a pre-f=
ascist state. Deconstruction of the winners speech, it would be a task for =
a positive construction.
About Derrida, he speaks about a apocalyptic tone in Occidental Philosop=
hy. He said: the apocalypse will never comes. It's only a way of speech, a =
startling tone of voice assumed by the Occidental Philosophy. And through t=
he Philosophy History, there are a errantly thought that assumes many persp=
ectives, transversely, like a journey through time, but the journey never e=
nds. However, the apocalypse sustains to it self as the future that cannot =
be. In process, transversely, many things are living and are dying, and the=
apocalyptic end recognized by the fascist power, the total destruction and=
dead, it cannot happen. Because the accidents of the process, the tension =
relations between actuality and potentiality, immanent to the social grid, =
never will consent that! It will be a evolution, to where, we don't know! =
Future will arrive to us, in a shape of hallucinations, phantoms, mirages. =
For me, literature might catch this impressions, like signs from future to =
decipher them. So, the original face of humanity, it's much more what human=
ity can be, (on present, only inhuman potentialities), than humanity was in=
the past.

Joao Pedro
[email protected]


—– Original Message —–
From: "manik" <[email protected]>
To: "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II


> Uhhhhh,poetry must make new,human face to people who are deeply in
> evel?Pedro?But,what are you think about Derida…etc.Isn't that most
urgent
> qvestion?War as a important issue desapired because,by the way,some Dys=
ke
> have a cop of tea with…Cage!(par lui meme).So,Vijay,"rhizome"is one of
> lightest fluxes.Chat on "rhizome"is vesting time.Have you made some mon=
ey
on
> "rhizome"?What do you expect?That somebody see and feel your respectable
> personality…They make joke on me,Marc(ask me why am I angre on
Atty).Isn't
> that so obviesly.His qvestion explaind all.People like Marc…etc.see o=
nly
> surface,my english.Unfortunetly thay dont see meening of their own
> language.Butheway PAROLE is what you wright,LANGUAGE is something you
> talk.There's no hard conection between them.Actualy I like your
> way,Vijay,but what's that meen in deconstruction world of
> "rhizome".Actualy,I like that you are reflex of East mind.I dont qvit f=
rom
> "rhizome"because there's allways stupid persons,worth to bee seen as a
> simtom(Wally Keller,Atty,…and so many other).In my counry,Serbia,I ha=
ve
no
> position.My last position is,paradoxaly,on "rhizome".Dont like
anybody,dont
> respect….dont care for …..I'm in superposition.I dont care for
"rhizom"!
> All best
> MANIK
> —– Original Message —–
> From: "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 5:32 PM
> Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II
>
>
> > Hehe…no, I just meant that I didn't know how to reconcile that
statement
> with how I felt about art/etc. I think Joao put it well, though, that
poetry
> restores the human face to the world after the brutality of war, to "pi=
ck
up
> the pieces" in a way.
> >
> > I think that's what Christa Wolf achieved in _Cassandra_, anyway.
> >
> > Maybe I didn't understand your post…maybe you were making a joke? An
> insult? In which case I didn't mean to offend you in the first place…
> >
> >
> > -Vijay
> >
> >
> >
> > > "manik" <[email protected]> "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>,
> <[email protected]> Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners IIDate: Thu,
20
> Feb 2003 09:30:54 +0100
> > >Reply-To: "manik" <[email protected]>
> > >
> > >Did anyone ask you?
> > >MANIK
> > >—– Original Message —–
> > >From: "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>
> > >To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
> > >Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 8:48 AM
> > >Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II
> > >
> > >
> > >> Christa Wolf, I think it was, once said "How can there be poetry
after
> > >Auschwitz?"
> > >>
> > >> I still can't respond to that question.
> > >>
> > >> Vijay
> > >>
> > >> > "manik" <[email protected]> "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>,
> > ><[email protected]> Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners IIDate:
Tue,
> 18
> > >Feb 2003 17:30:01 +0100
> > >> >Reply-To: "manik" <[email protected]>
> > >> >
> > >> >Take opportunity to made art,even aesthetic,in war time and use t=
hat
> > >> >production for self promotion is awful.But I'm artist.If I were
> > >> >capitalist,my work against war could bee named as capitalistic,ev=
en
> > >> >turbocapitalistic.So,Vijay,make love not art,or…something like
> > >that.Your
> > >> >carefully listener
> > >> >MANIK
> > >> >—– Original Message —–
> > >> >From: "Vijay Pattisapu" <[email protected]>
> > >> >To: <[email protected]>
> > >> >Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:46 PM
> > >> >Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> part II:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> didn't mean that the anti/art/war posts were superficial
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I just meant that propaganda and war and leadership
> > >> >>
> > >> >> are artistic
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> even aesthetic
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The Japanese gave their warplanes names like "swooping crane"
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> ————————————————————
> > >> >> Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
> > >> >> Register Online Here -> http://www.junglist.com
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> >> ———————————————————————
> > >> >> Express yourself with a super cool email address from
> BigMailBox.com.
> > >> >> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
> > >> >> http://www.bigmailbox.com
> > >>
> >> ———————————————————————
> > >> >> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > >> >> -> post: [email protected]
> > >> >> -> questions: [email protected]
> > >> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > >> >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > >> >> +
> > >> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > >> >> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >+ ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > >> >-> post: [email protected]
> > >> >-> questions: [email protected]
> > >> >-> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > >> >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > >> >+
> > >> >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > >> >Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ————————————————————
> > >> Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
> > >> Register Online Here -> http://www.junglist.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ——————————————————————=
—
> > >> Express yourself with a super cool email address from BigMailBox.c=
om.
> > >> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
> > >> http://www.bigmailbox.com
> > >> ——————————————————————=
—
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >+ ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > >-> post: [email protected]
> > >-> questions: [email protected]
> > >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.r=
hiz
> > >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > >+
> > >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.=
php
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ————————————————————
> > Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
> > Register Online Here -> http://www.junglist.com
> >
> >
> > ———————————————————————
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> > Hundreds of choices. It's free!
> > http://www.bigmailbox.com
> > ———————————————————————
> > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > -> post: [email protected]
> > -> questions: [email protected]
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iz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.p=
hp
> >
> >
>
>
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

greetings v,m, j/o

[note april dead cruelty war lilacs]

april is the cruellest month
breeding lilacs out of dead ground

–[[ts eliot , (year aound world war one ? )]]

but imagine world war 5, you have molten melted metal grey as [the day
after][a movie about post nuvclear scenario 80's] everywhere
your stomach and brain and consciousness is [feels] like an
over-diagnosed]&[drugged patient in a psychatric ward or worse on the
street/under a bridge breathing shallowly with rapid pulse overlooking
the smoky metallic plain which adds to your feeling of the letterally []
practically [] naturalistically [] burnt out human condition, simply
toxicidic acidic cutting burning thru your feeling][vision of
individuality ecolohumanigicaly.

call me what you will and I agree with you, april lilacs tulips lotuses
daisies will appear in complete pessimistic deadly living suspense] [at
that ^ moment.

[in Ullysses Gaze [movie] the concert after in srebrenica [?] was too
fancy moving but fancy.]




lets not give it names. derrida does talk about spirit.action
[de-constr-action], ok. spirit of marxism
gadamar too phantasmically phenomenologically surrounded in murky
bordered future hermeneutics and ultimately modern pessimistic ::
unacceptable!

these are judgements like a court's, a statement, having no relation to
any truth,
but tryings to suscirumspect what happens between places like ::

:: [being] and [time] -heideggers burden-

:: [earth where lilacs grow] and [sky where cognitions and and decisons
are humanly processed].

I no longer worry about language
once again.

last time was very briefly when I was 17 !

lets see how long [this] suspense linegeers ____________


yasir
karachi



—–Original Message—–
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Joao Pedro
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 3:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: Oliveira Pereira
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II





Hi:

Poetry for me is the art to make new connections, unsuspected
connections that pre-exists in reality, but the social grid where we are
trapped, don't let us see this potentialities, because the force of
habit leads us to the old same place. In our mind are a grid of
concepts, that defines what a certain object means, what signified
correspond to a certain significant. That's the structure of the
recognized system of meaning: language frames that's identity. Trough
this frames, we see our world. Gadamer in "Hermeneutics" called this
preconceptions, a preconceive reality that's only exists in our own
minds. Now, poetry wrangles this connections between concepts: poetry
don't accept the established relations between thought objects. In
poetry, the unforeseen is the rule. Un Coup de Des jamais n'abolira le
hasard. The title of Stephane Mallarme, also the theme from a Man Ray
film, resume the work of the art: the unsuitable, the unseasonably and
sudden transition from the preconceive idea, to a real image that
happening like a revelation of something, for the first time. A process
where are playing two factors: deconstruction and construction,
construction and deconstruction, the factors order are irrelevant. The
accident suffered by The Large Glass of Duchamp could be a good exemple
of the unsuitable in art. After the accident, the fractures of the
broken glass on Duchamp work, becoming parts of her work in a natural
way.

About war, in my manner of thinking, it's only a way to a economical
end. The link between freedom and deconstruction it's broken in the
logic of war! Also in war, there's destruction, not deconstruction. The
last proposition it's not a simple game of words: destruction represents
a dead tantalization, deconstruction it's referent of dead as
interstices voids of reality, like in a chess game, where the empty
places of the board, allows to play and move the chess-pieces. So, dead
have a positive side, when dead makes possible the transition, from one
state of things to another. The process of conscience work that way: you
die to a thought, to live to a new thought. But the face of Occidental
man, made by the totalitarian grid of the same, it's a face of dead. And
the Occidental territory, have the resemblance of a desert! The desert
grows, then, art need deconstruct the usual connections, to interpret
the signs of the power language. William Greider, the author of Who Will
Tell the People, already had declared that we are in a pre-fascist
state. Deconstruction of the winners speech, it would be a task for a
positive construction.
About Derrida, he speaks about a apocalyptic tone in Occidental
Philosophy. He said: the apocalypse will never comes. It's only a way of
speech, a startling tone of voice assumed by the Occidental Philosophy.
And through the Philosophy History, there are a errantly thought that
assumes many perspectives, transversely, like a journey through time,
but the journey never ends. However, the apocalypse sustains to it self
as the future that cannot be. In process, transversely, many things are
living and are dying, and the apocalyptic end recognized by the fascist
power, the total destruction and dead, it cannot happen. Because the
accidents of the process, the tension relations between actuality and
potentiality, immanent to the social grid, never will consent that! It
will be a evolution, to where, we don't know! Future will arrive to us,
in a shape of hallucinations, phantoms, mirages. For me, literature
might catch this impressions, like signs from future to decipher them.
So, the original face of humanity, it's much more what humanity can be,
(on present, only inhuman potentialities), than humanity was in the
past.

Joao Pedro
[email protected]


—– Original Message —–
From: "manik" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>
To: "Vijay Pattisapu" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>;
< <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II


> Uhhhhh,poetry must make new,human face to people who are deeply in
> evel?Pedro?But,what are you think about Derida…etc.Isn't that most
urgent
> qvestion?War as a important issue desapired because,by the way,some
Dyske
> have a cop of tea with…Cage!(par lui meme).So,Vijay,"rhizome"is one
of
> lightest fluxes.Chat on "rhizome"is vesting time.Have you made some
money
on
> "rhizome"?What do you expect?That somebody see and feel your
respectable
> personality…They make joke on me,Marc(ask me why am I angre on
Atty).Isn't
> that so obviesly.His qvestion explaind all.People like Marc…etc.see
only
> surface,my english.Unfortunetly thay dont see meening of their own
> language.Butheway PAROLE is what you wright,LANGUAGE is something you
> talk.There's no hard conection between them.Actualy I like your
> way,Vijay,but what's that meen in deconstruction world of
> "rhizome".Actualy,I like that you are reflex of East mind.I dont qvit
from
> "rhizome"because there's allways stupid persons,worth to bee seen as a
> simtom(Wally Keller,Atty,…and so many other).In my counry,Serbia,I
have
no
> position.My last position is,paradoxaly,on "rhizome".Dont like
anybody,dont
> respect….dont care for …..I'm in superposition.I dont care for
"rhizom"!
> All best
> MANIK
> —– Original Message —–
> From: "Vijay Pattisapu" < <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected]>
> To: < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 5:32 PM
> Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II
>
>
> > Hehe…no, I just meant that I didn't know how to reconcile that
statement
> with how I felt about art/etc. I think Joao put it well, though, that
poetry
> restores the human face to the world after the brutality of war, to
"pick
up
> the pieces" in a way.
> >
> > I think that's what Christa Wolf achieved in _Cassandra_, anyway.
> >
> > Maybe I didn't understand your post…maybe you were making a joke?
An
> insult? In which case I didn't mean to offend you in the first
place…
> >
> >
> > -Vijay
> >
> >
> >
> > > "manik" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> "Vijay Pattisapu" <
<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>,
> < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> Re: RHIZOME_RAW:
wordgames for beginners IIDate: Thu,
20
> Feb 2003 09:30:54 +0100
> > >Reply-To: "manik" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>
> > >
> > >Did anyone ask you?
> > >MANIK
> > >—– Original Message —–
> > >From: "Vijay Pattisapu" < <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected]>
> > >To: < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>; <
<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>
> > >Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 8:48 AM
> > >Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II
> > >
> > >
> > >> Christa Wolf, I think it was, once said "How can there be poetry
after
> > >Auschwitz?"
> > >>
> > >> I still can't respond to that question.
> > >>
> > >> Vijay
> > >>
> > >> > "manik" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> "Vijay Pattisapu"
< <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>,
> > >< <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> Re: RHIZOME_RAW:
wordgames for beginners IIDate:
Tue,
> 18
> > >Feb 2003 17:30:01 +0100
> > >> >Reply-To: "manik" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>
> > >> >
> > >> >Take opportunity to made art,even aesthetic,in war time and use
that
> > >> >production for self promotion is awful.But I'm artist.If I were
> > >> >capitalist,my work against war could bee named as
capitalistic,even
> > >> >turbocapitalistic.So,Vijay,make love not art,or…something like
> > >that.Your
> > >> >carefully listener
> > >> >MANIK
> > >> >—– Original Message —–
> > >> >From: "Vijay Pattisapu" < <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected]>
> > >> >To: < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>
> > >> >Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:46 PM
> > >> >Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: wordgames for beginners II
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> part II:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> didn't mean that the anti/art/war posts were superficial
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I just meant that propaganda and war and leadership
> > >> >>
> > >> >> are artistic
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> even aesthetic
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The Japanese gave their warplanes names like "swooping crane"
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> ————————————————————
> > >> >> Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
> > >> >> Register Online Here -> <http://www.junglist.com>
http://www.junglist.com
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> >>
———————————————————————
> > >> >> Express yourself with a super cool email address from
> BigMailBox.com.
> > >> >> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
> > >> >> <http://www.bigmailbox.com> http://www.bigmailbox.com
> > >>
> >>
———————————————————————
> > >> >> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > >> >> -> post: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
> > >> >> -> questions: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
> > >> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> <http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz>
http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > >> >> -> give: <http://rhizome.org/support>
http://rhizome.org/support
> > >> >> +
> > >> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > >> >> Membership Agreement available online at
> <http://rhizome.org/info/29.php> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >+ ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > >> >-> post: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
> > >> >-> questions: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
> > >> >-> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> <http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz>
http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > >> >-> give: <http://rhizome.org/support>
http://rhizome.org/support
> > >> >+
> > >> >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > >> >Membership Agreement available online at
> <http://rhizome.org/info/29.php> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ————————————————————
> > >> Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
> > >> Register Online Here -> <http://www.junglist.com>
http://www.junglist.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
———————————————————————
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BigMailBox.com.
> > >> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
> > >> <http://www.bigmailbox.com> http://www.bigmailbox.com
> > >>
———————————————————————
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >+ ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > >-> post: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
> > >-> questions: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
> > >-> subscribe/unsubscribe:
<http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz>
http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
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> > >+
> > >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > >Membership Agreement available online at
<http://rhizome.org/info/29.php> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ————————————————————
> > Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
> > Register Online Here -> <http://www.junglist.com>
http://www.junglist.com
> >
> >
> >
———————————————————————
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BigMailBox.com.
> > Hundreds of choices. It's free!
> > <http://www.bigmailbox.com> http://www.bigmailbox.com
> >
———————————————————————
> > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > -> post: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
> > -> questions: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
<http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz>
http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: <http://rhizome.org/support> http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
<http://rhizome.org/info/29.php> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
> >
>
>
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
> -> questions: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
<http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz>
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> -> give: <http://rhizome.org/support> http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
<http://rhizome.org/info/29.php> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>