ART vs art (was : Pondering the social sculpture, P1)

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Liza Sabater wrote:

> When Curt or Mark asked, "If art falls in the forest, does it make a
> sound?" I answered, YES for the forest and NO for the world or ART,
> Inc. Artists have always had to make a decision between making a
> sound in the forest versus making a sound in the art world. That's
> the way things have always been.

Not for Yves Klein.

And–even though you're ignoring this–understand that 'Art, INC.'
is a consensual hallucination. Art, INC. is created by the actions
and energies of humans. By preserving the stance that you do,
you help maintaing it.

Sure is a difficult situation, though, but then again,
look at the state of humanity.

What you also fail to realize that this 'blowing the top'
reaction is dictated to you from weakness, among other things,
and that it furthers the 'harm' rather than aiding the situation.

Ultimately, if you don't want to deal with it, blowing it up
is simply a violent unconscious reaction.

Not that I am passing judgement on you–but mastering one's
'environment' is not the same as destroying it.

There is an 'argument' to be made whether it is worth mastering.

`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42

Concerning forests, there's an old sufi saying: "Easier to be a sage on the mountaintop than in
the marketplace." Concerning Art, Inc., I always liked the name of the little press named
Fingerprinting Ink Operated.

And I can understand Curt's feeling about 'professional' artists–pros are usually pretty
defensive, not particularly generous, because that's all they have and there isn't much ground
underneath. A bird's gotta fly.

Years ago, when I told my aunt Georgie that I wanted to be a writer, she said "Then you better
go where the bears are." And she was quite a bear herself, in her own charming way. No, she was
a lion, but she said 'you better go where the bears are' and that meant 'where it's happening'.
Many years later, I told her I figured out where the real bears are. "Oh?" she said, and raised
her head as in 'yes, finish it'. "Yeah, the real bears are way out in the wilderness."

She half nodded, went back to her knitting, and said "I expect that's right".

Artists end up publishing and showing and talking etc with people they can relate to and with
whom they share a common vision. It doesn't generally work very well or long otherwise. Unless
of course someone has a sack full of cash in which case anything is possible. For a while,
anyway. But, eventually, if it's no fun they quit.

So the galleries end up with the people they want, and the artists end up with the people they
want. Which reminds me of the difference between pessimists and optimists: optimists believe we
live in the best of all possible worlds and pessimists, well, pessimists agree.

ja

Liza: v.insightful. I would add a corollary now that 'star wars is on
the backburner but not out yet': some people have been making a
deliberate choice and returning to earth and forest from the
spaceship/space-colony/'colonized'-space/'white'-space delusion, after
having participated in a lost cause, many are now '…without a cause',
again.

Remember bucky 'spaceship earth'. That was sweet but not true. The
'earth' is still bigger than the 'spaceship'. Also: There are no aliens,
no final frontier and no meteors to ride into the penumbra. The
fascination has been a fearful hallucinating experience, characteristic
of modern life and society? And of course federally funded.


—–Original Message—–
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Liza Sabater
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 9:47 AM
To: Jim Andrews
Cc: List@Rhizome. Org
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: ART vs art (was : Pondering the social sculpture,
P1)

At 4:10 AM -0800 11/18/02, Jim Andrews wrote:

I am trying to figure out who said what but I do want to clarify a
point. I definitely was not using the word Art to describe a personal
search. I was using Art to mean "ART, Inc".

I do not only personally think but, given that I help write the
grants, that the "ART, Inc." is not conducive to creating Art. Let
me put it another way: I have seen the dark side and I don't like it.

When Curt or Mark asked, "If art falls in the forest, does it make a
sound?" I answered, YES for the forest and NO for the world or ART,
Inc. Artists have always had to make a decision between making a
sound in the forest versus making a sound in the art world. That's
the way things have always been. But nowadays it is even more
pressing because there are curators, foundation directors and gallery
owners who are weighing this decision as well.

What is exciting and yet overwhelming is that there is a real shift
happening out there. More and more people are pondering the forest
because what they see in the art "world" is way passed saving. This
mean that more and more people have not a clue as to where things are
heading to but they know they are going somewhere.

I guess the forest has always been the place for art but many are
just starting to reckon with this.

Liza

+ dancing days are here again as the summer evenings grow

Yasir said
"There are no aliens, no final frontier and no meteors to ride into the
penumbra."


Are you sure about that?
Chers
Lee

on 11/19/02 8:19 AM, S Yasir Husain at [email protected] wrote:

> Liza: v.insightful. I would add a corollary now that 'star wars is on
> the backburner but not out yet': some people have been making a
> deliberate choice and returning to earth and forest from the
> spaceship/space-colony/'colonized'-space/'white'-space delusion, after
> having participated in a lost cause, many are now '…without a cause',
> again.
>
> Remember bucky 'spaceship earth'. That was sweet but not true. The
> 'earth' is still bigger than the 'spaceship'. Also: There are no aliens,
> no final frontier and no meteors to ride into the penumbra. The
> fascination has been a fearful hallucinating experience, characteristic
> of modern life and society? And of course federally funded.
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
> Of Liza Sabater
> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 9:47 AM
> To: Jim Andrews
> Cc: List@Rhizome. Org
> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: ART vs art (was : Pondering the social sculpture,
> P1)
>
> At 4:10 AM -0800 11/18/02, Jim Andrews wrote:
>
> I am trying to figure out who said what but I do want to clarify a
> point. I definitely was not using the word Art to describe a personal
> search. I was using Art to mean "ART, Inc".
>
> I do not only personally think but, given that I help write the
> grants, that the "ART, Inc." is not conducive to creating Art. Let
> me put it another way: I have seen the dark side and I don't like it.
>
> When Curt or Mark asked, "If art falls in the forest, does it make a
> sound?" I answered, YES for the forest and NO for the world or ART,
> Inc. Artists have always had to make a decision between making a
> sound in the forest versus making a sound in the art world. That's
> the way things have always been. But nowadays it is even more
> pressing because there are curators, foundation directors and gallery
> owners who are weighing this decision as well.
>
> What is exciting and yet overwhelming is that there is a real shift
> happening out there. More and more people are pondering the forest
> because what they see in the art "world" is way passed saving. This
> mean that more and more people have not a clue as to where things are
> heading to but they know they are going somewhere.
>
> I guess the forest has always been the place for art but many are
> just starting to reckon with this.
>
> Liza
>
> + dancing days are here again as the summer evenings grow
>
>
> + dancing days are here again as the summer evenings grow
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