Rhizome and Fees

On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Eduardo Navas wrote:

Certainly knowledge is not free, but the cost is not economic capital.
I'm not sure why information / data is being confused with knowledge.
Also, the majority of this data_ is being provided by users_.
If data_ is not free_ why is provided_ data_ free?
Why are posts free_? And having a project put in the database free_?

Also should payment be 'exacted' from 'users' by means of emotional
propaganda and force? After all, those are the two methods of
'consummerism'–and some of the actual_ 'bad' factors behind it–
not the act of existing merchandising operations?

If rhizome becomes a service for which its users pay, so should rhizome
pay to the community providing the resources.

The real point seems to be: these are the facts about running rhizome,
this is what rhizome needs to exist. Are the 'community' willing to
pay the price?

Most of the other noise–rather than elucidating has been reactionary
propaganda, and nebulous generalizations.

`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42

I answer each proposition below:

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 00:37:48 -0800 (PST) "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Eduardo Navas wrote:
>
> Certainly knowledge is not free, but the cost
> is not economic capital.
> I'm not sure why information / data is being
> confused with knowledge.
____________________
My response:

My ending line which you did not bother quoting in full stated: "Knowledge is
not free. It is mythologized as such in order to pseudo-escape its enslavement
from Capital."

It is because of myth why you notice a confusion between knowledge and
information. Myth does not let us see the real structure right away. Let us
think of it this way: In order to have knowledge, you need something to work
with. This something is data/information, which as you stated in not
necessarily free. This means that the price paid for knowledge is accessing
the necessary sources in order to become "informed" – leading to
understanding and reinterpretation of information. The person can then be
considered knowledgable or well-informed – and knowledge is attained.

Following that logic we can see that the cost of knowledge is not attached to
itself but to the information that is necessary in order to claim a
knowledgable position. It is this information which costs money. This is why
I ended my post with "got college" because going to college takes a lot of
money, as it is data that will be given to you so that you may eventually
become educated.
________________________

> Also, the majority of this data_ is being
> provided by users_.
> If data_ is not free_ why is provided_ data_
> free?
> Why are posts free_? And having a project put
> in the database free_?
>
__________________

My response:

The data is provided by users that is true, however, this data is not
necessarily automatically valuable. You see value is constructed accorded to
demand and supply. Many of the posts made to Rhizome are not very useful, and
few are worth reading all the way through. This is one of the reasons why
Rhizome rare was brought back (and I am glad, because I do not have time for
trivial postings.) This is obvioulsly a subjective statement based on my
biased definition of knowledge. And with such bias, I will state that there
is way too much crap being posted to Raw.

So, if there is no quality control, there should not be payment control. The
quality control at the moment is the volunteer superusers. It is the
super-users who decide what is valuable as information that can lead to
KNOWLEDGE. And this is a power position true, but one that is necessary is
order to workout the noise.

Also, many people need to write their opinions, and a forum for this should
not be paying them for their postings, especially if there is no demand for
their writing. A well reknowned writer can certainly hold back her
information because she knows it will be published in other ways, while others
will write their opinions in public forums because they have no other ways of
expression. This does not mean that their opinions are not valuable, but that
it is not in demand, and so many are lucky if their material is being read.
Rhizome raw is valuable for letting early writers polish their positioning on
the posting board. These people can then move on to getting paid on their
writing when ready.

You may disagree with the above, but the reality of the system is that it
functions on economics. I already explained the mythical platform on which
the net was built in the previous post, I will not repeat here again.
______________________________

> Also should payment be 'exacted' from 'users'
> by means of emotional
> propaganda and force? After all, those are the
> two methods of
> 'consummerism'–and some of the actual_ 'bad'
> factors behind it–
> not the act of existing merchandising
> operations?
>
> If rhizome becomes a service for which its
> users pay, so should rhizome
> pay to the community providing the resources.
>
> The real point seems to be: these are the facts
> about running rhizome,
> this is what rhizome needs to exist. Are the
> 'community' willing to
> pay the price?
>

_______________________
my response:

I can not comment on the above as I am not clear what you mean by "emotional
proganda and force."
__________________________


> Most of the other noise–rather than
> elucidating has been reactionary
> propaganda, and nebulous generalizations.
>
__________________

my response:

It is too bad you think of my post as reactionary and nebulous.
I would rather think of it as constructive – considering something that can
lead to new opinions.

On a side note, I do hope that Rhizome members who post incessantly to Raw
become more sensitive to the real need of the community, and provide
information that can lead to knowedge.

Eduardo Navas
http://www.navasse.net


> `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
>
>

That was stated very nicely.
Cheers
Lee

on 10/27/02 8:28 PM, Eduardo Navas at [email protected] wrote:

> Since everyone seems to be pitching their two cents, I shall pitch mine as
> well.
>
> First, I support Rhizome for many reasons, so I will make clear that I am fine
> with fees.
>
> However, I think the proper contextualization of such an act needs to be clear
> with everyone, as some people may consider charging a bad thing. This is due
> to the myth of "a new world" upon which the web was developed – which is also
> an extension of "knowledge should always be free."
>
> Not too long ago a post was made to nettime explaining the possibilities
> behind the gift economy. I immediately replied to the posting, along with
> many other nettimers, explaining my skepticism behind such emancipatory myth.
> Everything needs to be funded. Period. The economical superstructure is way
> too strong and decentralized for it to change drastically – at least in the
> next few years.
>
> And so, people in the arts need to function along with other economic entities
> at a level which can let them be productive in some cultural form. I do not
> need to state that funding is needed for this activity.
>
> So the question becomes, why should we have problems with fees? Well, this
> may be due to the idea of knowledge being free in combination with art trying
> to escape consumer culture in some way. If Rhizome were to charge for its
> services, it would no longer be endorsing its (just mentioned) mythical
> platform. (At least this is how I define the platform for my own sake.)
>
> The net is becoming more and more stablelized by the corporate system, and the
> situation that Rhizome is currently going through is a symptom of such a
> process. At this point fees are necessary unless Rhizome decides on
> hybernation. If fees are inevitable, then the way these are to be applied can
> become the next form of outproduction. That is, fees do not need to be
> applied in conventional ways, but rather in a "rhizomic" sort of way.
> Here are my suggestions on fees:
>
> 1) All those who are currently users should be asked to pay up a fee, as they
> have already shown their interest on the site.
>
> 2)This fee should be based on region. Those living in countries with not as
> much income should not be expected to pay as much as those living in the U.S.
>
> 3) All new users should be able to use all areas of Rhizome for at least six
> months. This is more than enough time to decide if they want to become
> permanent members.
>
> The last point is probably the most crucial, because in this way Rhizome can
> still deliver content to anyone who is new to the site.
>
> I hope that helps.
>
> The sad thing is that a large part of the population, at least living in the
> U.S., has bought plenty of Starbucks Coffee or Jamba Juice or eaten at a fancy
> restaurant, or gone to the movies at least once this year. It is really sad
> that these same people are not willing to drop that kind of money on a major
> cultural resource such as Rhizome.
>
> If the fees are objected, it will be proof of how enslaved people are to
> consumer culture, while dismissing the true treasure of knowledge. Knowledge
> is not free, it is mythologized as such in order to pseudo-escape its
> enslavement to capital.
>
> Got College?
>
> Peace,
>
> Eduardo Navas
> + new media rugby
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

_______ _ __ ___ _
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__ | | | | | | __/ | |/ /_| | | | |
_ | | | '_ / _ | | / /| '_ | '__|
|__| |_| |_|\___| |_|____|_| |_|_|
| __| | | | (_) | | __/ (__| |_
_ | | | '_ / _ | | / /| '_ | '__|
-_ | | | |__ ___ | | ) | |__ _ __
| __| | | | (_) | | __/ (__| |_
_ | | | '_ / _ | | / /| '_ | '__|
-_ | | | |__ ___ | | ) | |__ _ __
_ | __ (_) | |
| __| | | | (_) | | __/ (__| |_
_ | | | '_ / _ | | / /| '_ | '__|
_| |__) | __ ___ _ ___ ___| |_
|_ ___/ '__/ _ | |/ _ / __| __|
-_ | | | |__ ___ | | ) | |__ _ __
_ | | | '_ / _ | | / /| '_ | '__|
|_| _ |_| \___/| |\___|\___|\__|
_ _/ |
_ |__/


> > > > Synopsis: The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project began December 30, 1994. A
`round-the-clock posting of sequenced hypermodern imagery from Brad Brace.
The hypermodern minimizes the familiar, the known, the recognizable; it
suspends identity, relations and history. This discourse, far from
determining the locus in which it speaks, is avoiding the ground on which
it could find support. It is trying to operate a decentering that leaves
no privilege to any center.


The 12-hour ISBN JPEG Project
—————————–
began December 30, 1994


Pointless Hypermodern Imagery… posted/mailed every 12 hours… a
spectral, trajective alignment for the 00`s! A continuum of minimalist
masks in the face of catastrophe; conjuring up transformative metaphors
for the everyday… A poetic reversibility of exclusive events…

A post-rhetorical, continuous, apparently random sequence of
imagery… genuine gritty, greyscale… corruptable, compact,
collectable and compelling convergence. The voluptuousness of the grey
imminence: the art of making the other disappear. Continual visual impact;
an optical drumming, sculpted in duration, on the endless present of the
Net.

An extension of the printed ISBN-Book (0-9690745) series… critically
unassimilable… imagery is gradually acquired, selected and re-sequenced
over time… ineluctable, vertiginous connections. The 12hr dialtone…

[ see ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace/netcom/books.txt ]

KEYWORDS: >> Disconnected, disjunctive, distended, de-centered,
de-composed, ambiguous, augmented, ambilavent, homogeneous, reckless…
>> Multi-faceted, oblique, obsessive, obscure, obdurate…
>> Promulgated, personal, permeable, prolonged, polymorphous, provocative,
poetic, plural, perverse, potent, prophetic, pathological, pointless…
>> Emergent, evolving, eccentric, eclectic, egregious, exciting,
entertaining, evasive, entropic, erotic, entrancing, enduring,
expansive…

Every 12 hours, another!… view them, re-post `em, save `em,
trade `em, print `em, even publish them…

Here`s how:

~ Set www-links to -> http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/12hr.html
-> http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/12hr.html
-> http://bbrace.net/12hr.html

Look for the 12-hr-icon. Heavy traffic may require you to specify files
more than once! Anarchie, Fetch, CuteFTP, TurboGopher…

~ Download from -> ftp.pacifier.com /pub/users/bbrace
Download from -> ftp.idiom.com /users/bbrace
Download from -> ftp.rdrop.com /pub/users/bbrace
Download from -> ftp.eskimo.com /u/b/bbrace
Download from -> hotline://artlyin.ftr.va.com.au

* Remember to set tenex or binary. Get 12hr.jpeg

~ E-mail -> If you only have access to email, then you can use FTPmail to
do essentially the same thing. Send a message with a body of 'help' to
the server address nearest you:
*
[email protected]@cs.uow.edu.au
[email protected]@ftp.Dartmouth.edu
[email protected]@src.doc.ic.ac.uk
[email protected]@ftp.sun.ac.za
[email protected]@ftp.luth.se
[email protected]@oak.oakland.edu
[email protected]@decwrl.dec.com
[email protected]
[email protected]@dearn.bitnet
[email protected]@plearn.edu.pl
[email protected]@pucc.bitnet
**


~ Mirror-sites requested! Archives too!
The latest new jpeg will always be named, 12hr.jpeg
Average size of images is only 45K.
*
Perl program to mirror ftp-sites/sub-directories:
src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/packages/mirror
*

~ Postings to usenet newsgroups:
alt.12hr
alt.binaries.pictures.12hr
alt.binaries.pictures.misc
alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.misc

* * Ask your system's news-administrator to carry these groups!
(There are also usenet image browsers: TIFNY, PluckIt, Picture Agent,
PictureView, Extractor97, NewsRover, Binary News Assistant, EasyNews)

~ This interminable, relentless sequence of imagery began in earnest on
December 30, 1994. The basic structure of the project has been over
twenty-four years in the making. While the specific sequence of
photographs has been presently orchestrated for more than 12 years` worth
of 12-hour postings, I will undoubtedly be tempted to tweak the ongoing
publication with additional new interjected imagery. Each 12-hour posting
is like the turning of a page; providing ample time for reflection,
interruption, and assimilation.

~ The sites listed above also contain information on other cultural
projects and sources.

~ A very low-volume, moderated mailing list for announcements and
occasional commentary related to this project has been established at
topica.com /subscribe 12hr-isbn-jpeg

–

This project has not received government art-subsidies. Some opportunities
still exist for financially assisting the publication of editions of large
(33x46") prints; perhaps (Iris giclees) inkjet duotones or extended-black
quadtones. Other supporters receive rare copies of the first three
web-offset printed ISBN-Books. Contributions and requests for
12hr-email-subscriptions, can also be made at
http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/buy-into.html, or by mailed cheque/check:
$50/mo $500/yr.

–

ISBN is International Standard Book Number. JPEG and GIF are types of
image files. Get the text-file, 'pictures-faq' to learn how to view or
translate these images. [ftp ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace/netcom/]

–
© Credit appreciated. Copyleft

1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002



<[email protected]>