no subject

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Max Herman wrote:

> I see death looking at
> www.geocities.com/genius-2000/January_1_Website.GIF
> for example.

That is very nice.

> Ego, does that have to do with what happens when people fight each other
> over what to look at to see death, i.e. look at the finger instead of the
> moon?

A lot of the times, but not always.

`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42

Does the ego have to do with the amygdala, and other studies being done like
stress in adolescent baboons, at UCSF? My sister tells me about that when I
talk about g2k.

Precis,

Max


>From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <[email protected]>
>To: Max Herman <[email protected]>
>CC: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: no subject
>Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 19:00:33 -0700 (PDT)
>
>On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Max Herman wrote:
>
> > I see death looking at
> > www.geocities.com/genius-2000/January_1_Website.GIF
> > for example.
>
> That is very nice.
>
> > Ego, does that have to do with what happens when people fight each other
> > over what to look at to see death, i.e. look at the finger instead of
>the
> > moon?
>
> A lot of the times, but not always.
>
>`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
>
>+ AFK, tornado
>-> post: [email protected]
>-> questions: [email protected]
>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>+
>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php




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On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Max Herman wrote:

> Does the ego have to do with the amygdala,

That the brain is a seat for base 'emotions' has been known
to esoteric practitioners proper (as opposed to current 'esoteric'
fashions) before the 'discovery' of the amygdala. Majority of
humans are only capable of perceiving such, as well as confusing
various instincts with emotions (feelings). As they are unable to
produce genuine emotions (among which are capabilities for
empath(elepatic)y communication + compassion) they lack the ability
to discern, or create or perceive art for examples.

In connection with the ego itself– not as far as I can ascertain.
But my view on this is not 'finalized'. The 'amygdala' can be
permanently disabled, and its effects overcome + that is a necessary_
step to conscious development absolument. It traps massive amounts
of energies and precludes development of individuality, and I wouldn't
try to remove' the ego before dealing with it. The 'best' I can do
at this point is to say that there are compounded effects of it + ego
in the human being, and that dealing with each is part of a 'connected'
process.

> and other studies being done like stress in adolescent baboons, at UCSF?

Mass rallies, 'controversial' 'counter-cultural' music 'events',
as well as artwork which makes you 'angry' or 'afraid' or
'irate' etc. in order to make you 'think'. It doesn't.
It hi-jacks you into a primitive state and basically 'keeps you down'.

> My sister tells me about that when I talk about g2k.

Maybe she has some point :)

`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42

I think Kandinskij is definitely offering decent, intelligent ideas.

Instead of the war on Iraq, let me imagine that I can "prevent" something
else bad–say drug addiction in urban areas–just by snapping my fingers.

We all know this isn't possible. So what happens in situations like this,
when we see something "bad" (basically people suffering is the commonality
in "bad")? Well, we try to process it. It's ugly, and we feel driven to
explain the suffering, "do" something about it, or ignore it.

I've known literally hundreds of pomo theory-people who seem to me motivated
always by "I want to be the best theorist I can" and not "I want to do what
reality tells me is best." The society of hierarchic genius is not utopia,
because we do not know how to structure the hierarchy. People are motivated
by ego to achieve, but the structure is inaccurate; value reached is not
real but arbitrary.

Tearing down a structure does not guarantee a new or better structure in any
sense. I felt that pomo was all about a parasitic co-industry of
"everything's bad" theory to feed off people's need to "explain" why they
felt guilty, why there was suffering in the world–infantile crap. Is
capitalism the best we can do? No, it's evil, and pomo is "understanding
why", which supposedly is going to create a cure.

I think Kandinskij is quite right about most of what he's saying. Certainly
he is correct to point out my own stagnation in ego-delusions.

Another example is Shakespeare–should he have plotted to kill Queen
Elizabeth, because she was "corrupt" and "in power" and "fought wars"?
Under QE1, men were not able to vote; they were either loyal or traitorous.

Another example is Dostoevsky. After being sent to the Gulag, he ceased to
"attack" the authorities. Was he immoral in this decision? Had he betrayed
those who continued to attack and eventually overthrew the Tsar?

I often wonder about the "morality" of hippies in the 60's. It's pretty
obvious the main part of the protest movement was to get laid and high. (If
it wasn't, why did the boomers turn into what they did? It's the Boomer
Majority that runs the country now.)

Or take me Max Herman for example: would you find it particularly wonderful
if I were to say "hey let's stop this Iraq war"? Clearly any ability to
stop such a huge enterprise is delusory on my part. But does "following" or
"supporting" me in this kind of project come from an objective reality of my
power to stop the war, or a co-delusory ego-driven knee-jerk?

In moments of clarity, I know absolutely that whether this war happens is
not up to me. I might like saying "hey let's all G2K and have no war" but I
might just as well say "support G2K and there will be no poverty" or "throw
G2K tickets and there will be no more drug addiction." Or ignorance, fear,
corruption deceit, anything "bad."

IN the US, we are told "don't be sheep–buy Sprite," and so forth. We hate
the idea that we are sheep, and that hateful delusion is how we are
"led"–it's the only way to influence us. Tell us we're not sheep, and
we'll go anywhere and buy anything from you.

Nor does observing how degraded and deluded we are with ego absolve us of
guilt. Hence the mote/beam parable–it takes no ability or energy to say to
someone else "you are shit." The tiniest particle of ego in one's own eye
ought to be more important than even the largest mass of ego in someone
else's. I.e., work on yourself, don't pretend to be God, to be able to
judge, to be the Buddha.

I take one of my responsibilities to be the actions and behavior of my
government. They protect me, protect the economy that feeds and houses me,
and keep my enemies at bay. I'm complicit in what they do. It would be
noxious for me to pretend that I can cleanse myself by protesting George
Bush.

The USA is more than just me. I don't think that being an egotistical
protester is any better than being an egotistical patriot. Both are poorly
evolved, mechanical, selfish postures. It is also not my place to subdue
and/or convert those of either camp to my "righteous" state of mind–you
can't get rid of anyone's ego but your own.

I take all this to be true, yet I am scared about invading Iraq. I'm scared
of how easy and smooth it might be, and whether taking pleasure in a swift
victory would be moral. I worry about "my government" starting a huge war
that won't end soon and will implicate me in oppressive, colonialist
actions. Protesting the war, making a fuss, being loud and boisterous, well
that seems not to serve much other than my own ego. Bush is not now
listening to protesters, and he will not do so in the near future. If the
protesters were to actually join the enemy forces, those "fighting" Bush,
they would have the greatest claim to be "working against the US
administration," but who wants to go to jail over this? Democrats are
hardly "against" an invasion.

Don't protest the Empire–become a Jedi, and evolve, etc. Sure I'm
committing the same rationalization I once ranted against David Ross for
saying–"This time the revolution will be internal"–with one caveat, i.e.,
that all real revolution is always internal; external revolutions are fakes
(i.e. mere shuffling of the ruling classes) unless they jibe with genuine
internal revolution i.e. basic evolution.

I'm open to argument on this also. The Zen tradition hardly calls on people
to kill the authority figures around them, that's for darn sure.

>From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <[email protected]>
>To: Max Herman <[email protected]>
>CC: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: RHIZOME\_RAW: no subject
>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 13:44:58 -0700 (PDT)
>
>On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Max Herman wrote:
>
> > Does the ego have to do with the amygdala,
>
> That the brain is a seat for base 'emotions' has been known
> to esoteric practitioners proper (as opposed to current 'esoteric'
> fashions) before the 'discovery' of the amygdala. Majority of
> humans are only capable of perceiving such, as well as confusing
> various instincts with emotions (feelings). As they are unable to
> produce genuine emotions (among which are capabilities for
> empath(elepatic)y communication + compassion) they lack the ability
> to discern, or create or perceive art for examples.
>
> In connection with the ego itself– not as far as I can ascertain.
> But my view on this is not 'finalized'. The 'amygdala' can be
> permanently disabled, and its effects overcome + that is a necessary\_
> step to conscious development absolument. It traps massive amounts
> of energies and precludes development of individuality, and I wouldn't
> try to remove' the ego before dealing with it. The 'best' I can do
> at this point is to say that there are compounded effects of it + ego
> in the human being, and that dealing with each is part of a 'connected'
> process.
>
> > and other studies being done like stress in adolescent baboons, at UCSF?
>
> Mass rallies, 'controversial' 'counter-cultural' music 'events',
> as well as artwork which makes you 'angry' or 'afraid' or
> 'irate' etc. in order to make you 'think'. It doesn't.
> It hi-jacks you into a primitive state and basically 'keeps you down'.
>
> > My sister tells me about that when I talk about g2k.
>
> Maybe she has some point :)
>
>`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
>
>
>
>+ AFK, tornado
>-> post: [email protected]
>-> questions: [email protected]
>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>+
>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php




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"As I execute my killers the morning is near."

Isn't that genius? No. My take on Karei is that he thinks the species is
in huge trouble, and we of his disdain are not doing enough. It seems a
reasonable argument. "Enough, or too much?"–Blake

"Tryin' to find a hard piece of evidence that I'm a dirty fuckin' loser with
a handjob; gotta find a hard piece of evidence to set me free."
–Shlagel "Hard Evidence"

Cosmic funk shitstorm,

Max H.

++

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–
http://www.nextroute.com
-/ PINE ! /-


—– Original Message —–
From: "Max Herman" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 4:17 PM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: no subject


>
>
> "As I execute my killers the morning is near."
>
> Isn't that genius? No. My take on Karei is that he thinks the species is
> in huge trouble, and we of his disdain are not doing enough. It seems a
> reasonable argument. "Enough, or too much?"–Blake
>
> "Tryin' to find a hard piece of evidence that I'm a dirty fuckin' loser
with
> a handjob; gotta find a hard piece of evidence to set me free."
> –Shlagel "Hard Evidence"
>
> Cosmic funk shitstorm,
>
> Max H.
>
> ++
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
> + the Patty Winters show this morning was about Real-Life Rambos.
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Max Herman wrote:

> Isn't that genius? No. My take on Karei is that he thinks the species is
> in huge trouble,

+ I don't think so. I know so.
One hasn't got anything to do with the other.

`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42

On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Max Herman wrote:

> Isn't that genius? No. My take on Karei is that he thinks the species is
> in huge trouble, and we of his disdain are not doing enough. It seems a
> reasonable argument. "Enough, or too much?"–Blake

No disdain though. It's something else.

`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42

On Sun, 13 Oct 2002 [email protected] wrote:

> no. I don't feel threatened

Lie.

> and if working with people day to day to engage
> the enviroment around us is what your accusing me of -then yes, guilty.

You are not being 'accused'. Nor did I in any way indicate the drivel
that you wrote: yet another standard trick: re-writing what was said
in your own shiny terms and pinning yourself a medal for it.

Ha ha.

> you use this list an awful lot (20-30 times a day)

I use this list as often as I see fit and it isn't 'an awful lot'
nor is it up to you to judge that. But let's take a closer look:
your first reply was attempt at discreditation

your second is attempted self-glorification + slander

cuckoo idiot

> for somebody who is so concerned about other's "vampiric" activity,

I am not concerned. Posting to a list doesn't qualify as "vampiric"
activity. Again, you're attempting to use words you have no clue about
–ie unjustified personal attacks in order to sidestep what I wrote
about your project which is ACTUALLY VALID.

Secondly, I am not interested in "vampiric" activity, nor have I
indicated anything of the sort. Vampiric activity, without any
sort of quotation marks is a very concerete energetic occurrence,
and is nothing that you know anything about.


> poisoning people with their "filthy" agendas..

Poisoning people? Get a clue. I've made no indication of connection
between 'poisoning people' and vampirism. Your clueless idiocy
is your own problem. Your pathos-filled POSE about these matters
is ignorant twittism.

> you are no different.

Actually I am. Your cheap 'you're no different' 'one of us'
idiocy is sheer crap. It holds less water than a bottle with
broken bottom, not to mention that you're simply throwing
about vague accusations.

So let's have it dear: what is vampirism?
I need a good laugh.


> I know you will have some cute cutdown so go head.

No dear. I am not 'something cute'.
Shove your condescending attitude up your arse,
and ADDRESS WHAT YOU ARE DOING:
Involving people too young to understand such issues
in political propaganda territories.


> I hope the real irony is that you are older then me,

What does AGE have to do with any of this, you imbecile?

> so i can accuse you of the same.

Nobody is accusing you. The phrase you're looking for
is being held responsible for your actions. Your subsequent
juvenile knee-jerk of 'don't accuse me' paired with martyr
pose is absolute drivel. Be careful not to stick that medal-pin
too hard into your uniform.


> or should i directly begin with name calling.

Do whatever you please. Unfortunately, your erroneous implication
is that I engage in 'name calling'–and this is again, drivel.
Calling shit shit is not 'name calling'. It's accurate.
Yet another attempt at debasing + derogatory 'cute' commentary.
When confronted with unplsanat truth,

a. act haughty
b. don't answer the responsibilities brought up
c. attempt to present your doings in the martyr-glory scenario
(I am an ICON really)
d. attempt to debase the threat to the ICON cause that's
the only way you can feel secure

> that is always a great way to engage in discourse.

I don't engage in masturbatory brain-verbal imbecilities such as
'discourse'.

> ..your "it" shithead.

I am neither 'it' nor a 'shithead'. You're talking about yourself.

And the whole of your post consists: just like the other
of facetuos and baseless attempts at slander.

You not ONCE address what is being written about you, and namely

that your project is exploitative

it shovels 'youth' into territories they're not capable of dealing
with

it uses their energy to further some idiotic agenda

is basically the psychic equivalent of sending 18 yr olds
to war

Speak up if you can. But no you can't.
You can only bark. cause if you could speak you'd not
be involved in filthy projects.

'Rock the Vote'.

Revolting.

no. I don't feel threatened and if working with people day to day to engage
the enviroment around us is what your accusing me of -then yes, guilty. you
use this list an awful lot (20-30 times a day) for somebody who is so
concerned about other's "vampiric" activity, poisoning people with their
"filthy" agendas….you are no different. I know you will have some cute
cutdown so go head. I hope the real irony is that you are older then me, so
i can accuse you of the same. or should i directly begin with name calling.
that is always a great way to engage in discourse……your "it" shithead.

In a message dated 10/13/02 12:43:52 PM, [email protected] writes:

>On Sun, 13 Oct 2002 [email protected] wrote:
>
>> death, that sounds a lot like a political stance.
>
> No, it doesn't. None of it sounds like a political stance.
> Feeling threatened cuz what I wrote is correct?

On Sun, 13 Oct 2002 [email protected] wrote:

> death, that sounds a lot like a political stance.

No, it doesn't. None of it sounds like a political stance.
Feeling threatened cuz what I wrote is correct?

You are the ones involving 'youth in politics'.
It's trash, as I wrote. It's vampiric, and it's
using young people with pure energy to further
your filthy agendas. It's whoring out + using youth.

There is nothing 'artistic' about what you do.

death, that sounds a lot like a political stance.


In a message dated 10/13/02 10:27:49 AM, [email protected] writes:

>
>On Sat, 12 Oct 2002 [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Today, Saturday, OCT 12, you are cordially invited to attend the opening
>> reception of FIRST ISSUE. First Issue is an exhibit of youth
>> political art
>
> Youth political art. Is that like The Hitler Youth?
> Not enough that 'adults' get suckered into political idology &
> opportunism, but now you go for humans too young to even begin to deal
> with this shit, sucking their energy thru and thu before they got a
> chance.
>


Ed Giardina

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