Flaming Matadors

On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Eryk Salvaggio wrote:

> The next person who responds to this ego-battle

This is not an ego battle.

> of the iron wills

The ego has no will.

> instead of discussing something nice

Sod off.

> and constructive like books

Books are worthless.

> art

This is art.

> and/or hot cocoa is going to get me so worked up I might tap my fingers
> heavily on my desk, roll my eyes, or tear a piece of paper in half.

Please do. Don't forget to open your window and shout.

> Sorry for coming back into this mess albeit impermanently; but is there
> really anything being resolved, learned, communicated, inspired or
> rendered-happy from these discussions?

Rendered-happy? You mean flatly sedated?

> If any of you get something positive from it then by all means,
> do continue,

Thanks for the permission.

> until you all eat yourselves to death

That coming from a passive-aggressive narcissistic leech.
Our hearts break.

> I'm not really confident that there is any real hole that will be
> left in your lives if you stop this investment into the craftsmanship of your personal attacks
> and repertoire of clever come backs.

And this is not what is going on.

> You're all pretty funny or whatever you want to be seen as, seriously,
> you guys are all the thing you want to be, totally 100%.

Pseudo-childish sniggering attempted to be passed on as humor.

> Part of Kandinskij's thing seems to be to just lock people and their
> energy into these battles,

People lock themselves into these battles Eryk–and daily.
I am not doing it–it's a function of the ego to be defended
at all costs, and its defense saps its carriers energies.

When the person is all empty, it turns on others.

> and I suppose if one really feels compelled
> to put their energy into the whirlpool-like vacuum maybe there's some
> reason you have to.

'Feels* like.. but they won't give up their egos.

> But in the end there is no "winning" by way of public opinion-

Absolutely. So don't tell me next time that your 'artwork'
is worth 2 nickels because you get positive public opinions.

> none of these insult-matches have any real audience,

These are not insult-matches, love. And my audience is always
the one I speak to, solely.

> acting like this is an arena where the crowd will cheer you on if you
> get a good blow to the bull is, you know, just weird.

Which is what Max + Wally + Joseph + you want.
This little speech is nothing but an overly-calculated
grand coup on your part–oo o youll kill all the bulls
in one fell swoop.

Egotistical murderous brute. Go play righteous elesewhere.
Your self-righteousness is swelling out of proportion.

> Would you guys feel comfortable taking the argument offlist?

No.

> If not, why not?

No.

> Is it being done for the benefit of the rest of the people on the list?

No. The value of things is not in the benefits for the passive
consumattory crowd. Whoever doesn't jump in the play does not
benefit.

> I
> can't speak for them as an elected official of rhizome county or
> anything, but my own opinion is, I kinda got the point. Like, a while ago.


> Humbly (as if I knew what that was),

Now that is genuinely funny.

Eryk
The clarity of your message had real impact for me. I didn't come to rhizom=
e to participate as I had done. So I won't continue with Kandinski – he ha=
s been a waste of my time. Oh well.
Take care
Wally
—– Original Message —–
From: Eryk Salvaggio
To: Max Herman
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 2:45 AM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Flaming Matadors


The next person who responds to this ego-battle of the iron wills instead=
of discussing something nice and constructive like books art and/or hot co=
coa is going to get me so worked up I might tap my fingers heavily on my de=
sk, roll my eyes, or tear a piece of paper in half. Sorry for coming back i=
nto this mess albeit impermanently; but is there really anything being reso=
lved, learned, communicated, inspired or rendered-happy from these discussi=
ons? If any of you get something positive from it then by all means, do con=
tinue, until you all eat yourselves to death [and kill the list with you] b=
ut I'm not really confident that there is any real hole that will be left i=
n your lives if you stop this investment into the craftsmanship of your per=
sonal attacks and repertoire of clever come backs. You're all pretty funny =
or whatever you want to be seen as, seriously, you guys are all the thing y=
ou want to be, totally 100%.

Part of Kandinskij's thing seems to be to just lock people and their ener=
gy into these battles, and I suppose if one really feels compelled to put t=
heir energy into the whirlpool-like vacuum maybe there's some reason you ha=
ve to. But in the end there is no "winning" by way of public opinion- none =
of these insult-matches have any real audience, so acting like this is an a=
rena where the crowd will cheer you on if you get a good blow to the bull i=
s, you know, just weird. Would you guys feel comfortable taking the argumen=
t offlist? If not, why not? Is it being done for the benefit of the rest of=
the people on the list? I can't speak for them as an elected official of r=
hizome county or anything, but my own opinion is, I kinda got the point. Li=
ke, a while ago.

Humbly (as if I knew what that was),
-e.







Max Herman wrote:





From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <[email protected]>
To: Max Herman <[email protected]>
CC: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: get your agitprop on…
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:02:32 -0700 (PDT)

On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Max Herman wrote:

> Erah, um, KK wrote "this society" which he said before doesn't exis=
t.

Yes? When I write the word 'this society' I do not intend it in the=

same way that you do–or any of the others I've directed such a com=
ment
at.


Double-dribble.

The illiterate monkey that you are, you keep fishing for the surface

as all.


"All art is at once both surface and substance," said Oscar Wilde. The=
universe has a flat geometry, which has just been proved, but you don't li=
ke that 'cause you're Deep Brown or whatever. You can't perceive that the =
crux is the same for all, because you distort the Law of Large Numbers, amo=
ng other crucial factors. And you're one cm away from burnout.



Tsk.


Ah can it ya stooge.



Want to get your panties even more in a knot?


Your vulgarity is far from persuasive, dissuasive, or suasive.


I have the right to appropriatelyuse certain words that you–and mo=
st
others don't.


Ugh you are repellent in your charnality.


Mind you–there are others with the same rights.


Dude you are straight nuts. Some kinda smart bug.


And there are many who should they wake up–could have the
same rights too. But these people areless than 100.


The people who could get the right? You're an abomination.



Now throw a fit.


I think you're nuts if you think only less than 100 people have the rig=
ht to use a given word like society, or can talk. That's real racist; I kn=
ew an exec for ABC who said that black people can't talk. He was one power=
ful man too! Also, I spent a night in Princeton with the video editor for =
20/20 and his wonderful daughter Dilly, who I'm sure has no right to talk e=
ither, but they do have a copy of the g2k video. Her mom said "it's like t=
he days of King Alfred" to test me.



> So he's chokin on the spinters like HAL and Rollerball, and if he=
thinks
> Madonna has real power but G2K don't, well he's nuttier'n a chiffar=
obe.

hardly. This is your wishful thinking–I guess you just don't like=

accepting that G2K is a pile of sinking shit.


Since when?



The poor thing you.


You got me all wrong. But I spose in your world you're right as rain. =
Avakuki!



> He's irate,

I am hardly irate–don't project your wishful desires onto my words=
.



Don't do what? Oh yeah I forgot.


> shootin chaffy,

Neither.


Yes you are, sneak.



> but you know me I dig that,

Yes you do. Hence you project it outwards. But Max, baby.
I ain't you.


Right on. You're weirdly accurate all the time. However you are me.=




> Your gal ain't doodly squat,

Speaking of yourself again and again.


Hey man my gal is red hot.



Tell us again how words are THE GAME,
you blind ape you.


You keep lying, and lying, I said language is the game. Words aren't l=
anguage. Besides you're the cripple, a dirty freak.




`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42





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On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Wally Keeler wrote:

> Eryk
> The clarity of your message had real impact for me. I didn't come to rhizome to participate as I had done.

Master of his Fate. Can't handle his panties.

> So I won't continue with Kandinski –

Baa–you won't look fashionable.

> he has been a waste of my time.

No my dearest–you wasted your time all on your own.
The responsibility is yours. Not that I never gave you a chance not to
waste it.

> Take care
> Wally Ego Wanker,
Artiste Extraordinaire

`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42

i know what you mean. i quit reading his emails a long time ago.

i will admit … he is a very clever wordsmith. but there is very little w=
isdom.

maybe he's just masochistic … maybe he [sexually] enjoys the insults. wo=
uldn't that be a laugh-riot. he probably joined rhizome to satisfy his fet=
sh for humiliation and degradation.

david goldschmidt

—– Original Message —–
From: Wally Keeler
To: Eryk Salvaggio ; Max Herman
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Flaming Matadors


Eryk
The clarity of your message had real impact for me. I didn't come to rhiz=
ome to participate as I had done. So I won't continue with Kandinski – he =
has been a waste of my time. Oh well.
Take care
Wally
—– Original Message —–
From: Eryk Salvaggio
To: Max Herman
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 2:45 AM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Flaming Matadors


The next person who responds to this ego-battle of the iron wills inste=
ad of discussing something nice and constructive like books art and/or hot =
cocoa is going to get me so worked up I might tap my fingers heavily on my =
desk, roll my eyes, or tear a piece of paper in half. Sorry for coming back=
into this mess albeit impermanently; but is there really anything being re=
solved, learned, communicated, inspired or rendered-happy from these discus=
sions? If any of you get something positive from it then by all means, do c=
ontinue, until you all eat yourselves to death [and kill the list with you]=
but I'm not really confident that there is any real hole that will be left=
in your lives if you stop this investment into the craftsmanship of your p=
ersonal attacks and repertoire of clever come backs. You're all pretty funn=
y or whatever you want to be seen as, seriously, you guys are all the thing=
you want to be, totally 100%.

Part of Kandinskij's thing seems to be to just lock people and their en=
ergy into these battles, and I suppose if one really feels compelled to put=
their energy into the whirlpool-like vacuum maybe there's some reason you =
have to. But in the end there is no "winning" by way of public opinion- non=
e of these insult-matches have any real audience, so acting like this is an=
arena where the crowd will cheer you on if you get a good blow to the bull=
is, you know, just weird. Would you guys feel comfortable taking the argum=
ent offlist? If not, why not? Is it being done for the benefit of the rest =
of the people on the list? I can't speak for them as an elected official of=
rhizome county or anything, but my own opinion is, I kinda got the point. =
Like, a while ago.

Humbly (as if I knew what that was),
-e.







Max Herman wrote:





From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <[email protected]>
To: Max Herman <[email protected]>
CC: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: get your agitprop on…
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:02:32 -0700 (PDT)

On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Max Herman wrote:

> Erah, um, KK wrote "this society" which he said before doesn't ex=
ist.

Yes? When I write the word 'this society' I do not intend it in t=
he
same way that you do–or any of the others I've directed such a c=
omment
at.


Double-dribble.

The illiterate monkey that you are, you keep fishing for the surface=


as all.


"All art is at once both surface and substance," said Oscar Wilde. T=
he universe has a flat geometry, which has just been proved, but you don't =
like that 'cause you're Deep Brown or whatever. You can't perceive that th=
e crux is the same for all, because you distort the Law of Large Numbers, a=
mong other crucial factors. And you're one cm away from burnout.



Tsk.


Ah can it ya stooge.



Want to get your panties even more in a knot?


Your vulgarity is far from persuasive, dissuasive, or suasive.


I have the right to appropriatelyuse certain words that you–and =
most
others don't.


Ugh you are repellent in your charnality.


Mind you–there are others with the same rights.


Dude you are straight nuts. Some kinda smart bug.


And there are many who should they wake up–could have the
same rights too. But these people areless than 100.


The people who could get the right? You're an abomination.



Now throw a fit.


I think you're nuts if you think only less than 100 people have the r=
ight to use a given word like society, or can talk. That's real racist; I =
knew an exec for ABC who said that black people can't talk. He was one pow=
erful man too! Also, I spent a night in Princeton with the video editor fo=
r 20/20 and his wonderful daughter Dilly, who I'm sure has no right to talk=
either, but they do have a copy of the g2k video. Her mom said "it's like=
the days of King Alfred" to test me.



> So he's chokin on the spinters like HAL and Rollerball, and if =
he thinks
> Madonna has real power but G2K don't, well he's nuttier'n a chiff=
arobe.

hardly. This is your wishful thinking–I guess you just don't lik=
e
accepting that G2K is a pile of sinking shit.


Since when?



The poor thing you.


You got me all wrong. But I spose in your world you're right as rain=
. Avakuki!



> He's irate,

I am hardly irate–don't project your wishful desires onto my wor=
ds.



Don't do what? Oh yeah I forgot.


> shootin chaffy,

Neither.


Yes you are, sneak.



> but you know me I dig that,

Yes you do. Hence you project it outwards. But Max, baby.
I ain't you.


Right on. You're weirdly accurate all the time. However you are me.=




> Your gal ain't doodly squat,

Speaking of yourself again and again.


Hey man my gal is red hot.



Tell us again how words are THE GAME,
you blind ape you.


You keep lying, and lying, I said language is the game. Words aren't=
language. Besides you're the cripple, a dirty freak.




`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42





_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://=
photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

+ the assholes playground
-> post: [email protected]
-> questions: [email protected]
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rh=
iz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.p=
hp

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, David Goldschmidt wrote:

> i know what you mean. i quit reading his emails a long time ago.
>
> i will admit … he is a very clever wordsmith.

False.

> but there is very little wisdom.

Rather the opposite, batling.

> maybe he's just masochistic …

Keep your derogatory internal impulse projections to yourself.

> maybe he [sexually] enjoys the insults.

You're talking about yourself, baby.

> wouldn't that be a laugh-riot.

No, it wouldn't. You're sad, not funny.

> he probably joined rhizome to satisfy his fetsh for humiliation and
> degradation.

Again–keep your wishful masochistic impulses to yourself.
They haven't got a thing to do with what I am doing.

Masochistic + illiterate ape.

Deal with your self before attempting to cripple-psychologize others.

Pathetic butcher idiot.