Our Work Fills The Pews

On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Eryk Salvaggio wrote:

> I never once made a claim about "my struggle to merge with the God
> Head", either.

No, but I brought it up as to your claims of being God.
I was explaining to Ivan [Pope] that this all came up
in context regarding you–and it hasn't got anything
to do with 'general stances'.

> You brought it up. I don't believe in a God head.

That's what I was telling him. I brought it up
as relevance to the 'conversation' b/n you and I.

> I think it's a pretty stupid phrase, even.

Mu.

> Also, I like ego, and I like cleverness.

Good for you.

> I never really thought about how good they were until you
> started posting about how terrible they were. I'm not saying this to be
> a reactionary, either; I've been thinking about it and there's nothing
> really wrong with either.

You can't think. And what you think is thinking is a knee-jerk
mechanism. You can knee-jerk after a lot of deliberation and
shuffling about, if you like–but that's still it.

> Ultimately cleverness involves puzzle solving, word play; that kind of
> thing; which delight certain parts of our brains, I think, and nothing
> wrong with that.

There certainly is. And I'm not explaining.

> Not to mention sarcasm and the ultimate satisfaction that can come from employing it.

The only 'satisfaction' that comes from sarcasm is engorgement of your
ego. That is not satisfaction, it's a fix. It doesn't last,
and when the moment's gone you're still left with a black hole inside.
So you must hunt for the next fix, and the next–and youbecome a monkey
to your habit.

> Satire is employed by

Intelligent individuals, and intelligent satire is not 'sarcasm' or
'irony.'

> the smart monkeys to shift power from the ones who bash.

No, it isn't. Because sarcasm and / or irony are incapable of
shifting power. Secondly, theft of power is Vampirism, in
esoteric terms and is only available to non-human entities.
It's not within human capacities, nor can a human degrade itself
to such a state. It is not up to you to determine who has how much
power: this is determined by nature, at birth. A person's
energy belongs only to this person. Regardless of social position.
What kind of actual Power they will have is also determined by other
factors. Like most adolescent males you confuse territorial
and mating instinctual displays with power, and power with
the former. Nothing could be further from reality.

> Do you associate with a bashing monkey,

I am not a bashing monkey, love. Enough with the silly
biology class comparisons. I am not 'my animal nature,'
nor do I present it on these lists.

> who tirades against satire of him,

I am not tirading, and least of all about satire against me.
*Me* hasn't even been here.

> ["degradation"]

No, baby. I was speaking of debasement and degradation impulses.
I've also explained that one cannot degrade or debase a properly
developed individual–the degradator only degrades itself.
See comment above.

Apropos your power shifting: this is what you and Max do:
you attempt to feed on others who have power, and you vehemently
refuse on working on obtaining your own personal power.

That's idiotic, because it'll never happen.
The only result will be your own destruction.
And lo and behold you exist in a society which venerates
that sort of 'outcast' 'self-destruct' 'martyr' behavior.

> cleverness and that stuff in general, as a means of controlling the
> tribe?

Yes, psychic vampirism of the kind the two of you attempt
degrades 'the tribe' as a whole, and doesn't lead to anything.
Neither of you have what it takes to go thru with real
vampirism either, so both of you will end up chewed. And unlike
most, I don't find this idea amusing in the least, though you won't find
me doing your job–ie 'saving' you either.

> The employment of irony is based on a desire to ridicule those
> who control to deflect thier power.

No, it isn't. The desire for irony is an attempt to lift energy /
perceived power from those who possess it–a power which does not_
belong to you. Secondly, real Power cannot be lifted or deflected.
There is nothing you can do about it. And humans are subjects
to a lot of powers. Hence the human needs to be strong–
as necessity of mastery proper over (lower) or (elemental) powers
and hence the teaching of people to be week and meak is idiocy.
Prettiness is meekness, beauty (power) rendered impotent
both in male and female terms.

Thirdly, people possessing power do not CONTROL. Only weaklings who
refuse to do their work try to control because of the major confusion
that having things done for you–instead of doing the yourself
is preferable. And this stems majorly from a. laziness personally
b. observation of someone who is busy who actually needs help
having people do things for her/him that one finds personally
(ego) unpleasant–ie jealousy; c. misappropriated use of Power–
and in that case, the power is destroying the individual and typically
they try to drag along as many humans as they can.

Specifically with regards to Max I was very consciously 'angry'
at him for a. attempting to be 'suggestive' b. suggesting that
the person to whom he speaks utilizes its power to control another.
If a human being does that, its own power will destroy it.

In other words, max the innocent saintly baby that he is,
tries to make ppl trip up and self-destruct. This amoutnts to murder.


> The irony can be used against "God,"

No, it can't.

> ie, nature, or fate,

No, and no. The proper mastery of nature and fate does not lie in
knee-jerk reactionary behavior such as irony. Irony is an
act of impotence in the face of your own inability to deal.

Modern society is impotent to act, and that's reflective in its art.

> things out of our control,

Nothing is ever in your control baby. Control is an illusion.

> or against rulers, leaders,

Rulers and leaders are not the same.
And genuine rulers and leaders are so for a reason.
That current society has impotent asleep pawns in positions
due for individuals with genuine ability is another story.

> dictators-

Rulers, leaders, and dictators, are not all the same.

> or against the rest of the world. But when you say,
> "refrain from doing that," aren't you protecting your place in the
> tribe,

I am not 'protecting my place in the tribe'–and it'll be a while
before you can sort out what I'm doing. Your 'judgements do
nothing but speak of whjat's inside your brain.

> earned as the monkey who can bash the most heads?

I am not a monkey, nor do I bash heads. See above.

> Because ultimately that is how power is accumulated-

No, that is NOT how power is accumulated. Secondly,
power is not accumulated–it is given to one as appropriate.
And also power is not energy.

> as displays of strength;

You're confusing displays of mating power with displays
of strength–and there's nothing 'animalistic' about the latter.

> which you seem ultimately concerned with:

Not at all.

> demands for respect,

What are you talking about?

To respect any other being is an act of awareness,
and to ask to be respected is to ask you to act in awareness.
Get your head out of your arse and your idiotic power trip obsession.
Respect is an internal imuplse which naturally spreads out
as one removes barriers between self and other.

> corrections,

There isn't anything wrong with corrections. Secondly,
most of the time i am not 'correcting'–I'm rejecting attempts to force
inapplicable 'masks' on my behavior.

> meme terrorism

You truly are a pathetic jealous monkey, no?
There is no such thing as 'meme terrorism'.
The memetics theory is a fraudulent perversion of the real thing
as King james Bible is to actual Christianity.


> and the claim of absolute authority.

All authority is soverieign or absolute.
You seem to have a problem with sovereignity of another human being.
And so does Max. But then again–your obsessions with
'power' and 'control' and 'accumulations of power' are revealing
in and of themselves. And all of your efforts to make the world
a 'better place' is targetted towards destroying the sovereign
power of individuals, and taking advantage of those not able
to defend themselves instead of working on achieving yours.

And take my word for it, I have no symapthy nor pity for
either of the both of you. Your behavior is criminal.
And no this is not a 'threat' for your destruction.

> You are frequently asking people to cease from degrading you with thier
> condescending, ironic and sarcastic statements, but how is it you would
> prefer they degrade you?

I am not doing anything of the sort. Your twisted 'perceptions'
or rather attempts to manipulate perception are idiotic.

> Because ultimately one who is so obsessed with the collection of power as you are

I am not obssessed with anything Eryk. Obsessive behavior is a
form of attachment. Power precludes attachment to it, doesn't
avail itself to people suffering from attachment, and
it destroys those who attempt attachment, quite pitilessly.

Same applies to those who attempt to 'steal' (attach themselves)
to it. So go ahead. Why don't you try it.

Your idiotic derogatory projection is baseless.

> will be "corrected" and "put in place"

Squint. You truly are moronic. Yes, I have a right to 'correct'
people. And also to 'put them in their places'.

> in order to keep the group dynamic intact.

I have no interest in 'group dynamics'.
You have some truly pathetic ideas of power–as if
it is something that acts as an offset against a group.
Again–you confuse your mating urges and displays
with power.

That's pathetic. As for rulership and power–that's another story,
and one that you don't understand yet, despite all your
Tao Te Ching quoting.

> When they are not, arises a dictatorship.

Absolute bullshit. You don't even understand what dictatorship is.

> People like groups that are balanced.

I've no idea what you're talking about. There is no such thing as
'people'.

> Power isn't pretty

It is. It's absolutely, sovereignly beautiful (and I mean absolutely),
and absolutely, sovereignly magnificent. And in its sovereignity,
absoluteness and beauty it is power by its own virtue, not as a
competitive device, nor does its value derive from offesetting
itself against others (derogatory, debasing and condescending
behavior), nor does it derive from control.

Your comments betray that you're simply screaming for power
and you've never even had a taste of it.

> but I don't know if one can decentralize everything all the time-

You confuse the fight of the lower, animal natures with power.
has never been, never will be power. Power is not an animal
characteristic.

> ultimately what matters isn't the absolving of power as a concept but
> the wisdom to use it responsibly.

Idiotic nonsense. Power is sovereign and absolute. It is not
'explainable' 'justifiable' nor does it need 'approval' and
'absolution'. Secondly, Power does not avail itself
to an individual before it has in it the wisdom to use it.

> I think this may be part of the whole reason that whatever epoch we are
> in is so ripe with irony- because of the vast network of control that
> has developed over our daily lives.

Commented on above.

> Ultimately though, I think this kind of irony becomes bitterness when you realize that your irony is
> powerless

Irony is a defensive, reactionary mechanism.
While it's ok–naturally-before one is capable of ACTING otherwise,
to exult it is idiotic, and certainly its public exultation is little
but public exultation of abrgotaion of responsibility, and the weak
undeveloped human being.

Don't count on having me play along with that.

> and is being assimilated, at which point I don't see sincerity
> as so bad, either, and really as the ultimate form of power.

Certainly is.

> But can true sincerity exist under the threat of attack?

Don't you read the Tao Te Ching? Certainly it can.
But you don't understand sincerity, and likely_
confuse it with anumber of other things–for example wearing
your intentions on your sleeve.

Likely you've observed sinceirity and humor in a 'cutting'
form (satire) and due to lack of internal development
you think that that is irony and sarcasm.

But it isn't.

> And isn't there such a thing as joyous irony?

Ne.
`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42

> I think this may be part of the whole reason that whatever epoch we are
> in is so ripe with irony- because of the vast network of control that
> has developed over our daily lives. Ultimately though, I think this kind
> of irony becomes bitterness when you realize that your irony is
> powerless and is being assimilated, at which point I don't see sincerity
> as so bad, either, and really as the ultimate form of power. But can
> true sincerity exist under the threat of attack? And isn't there such a
> thing as joyous irony?

Joy is delusion.

Sadness is delusion.

Adaption is sincerity.

I am sorry Mr. Keeler, I don't understand what you mean. Perhaps you can
clarify that statement for me (quoted below.)

Thanks

—– Original Message —–
From: "Wally Keeler" <[email protected]>
To: "KALX" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Our Work Fills The Pews


> pumping irony

Pumping iron == what body builders do when they lift weights.
It's a play on that.
Nothing derogatory was intended. – it was a throwaway phrase on my part
concerning the subject of irony.

—– Original Message —–
From: "KALX" <[email protected]>
> I am sorry Mr. Keeler, I don't understand what you mean. Perhaps you can
> clarify that statement for me (quoted below.)
> Thanks
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: "Wally Keeler" <[email protected]>
> > pumping irony