Patrick Simons
Since the beginning
Works in Falmouth United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Discussions (37) Opportunities (0) Events (1) Jobs (0)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Net Art Market

Hi Judson
you've lost me now mate.

"a pretty stable audience of well trained
> >interested individuals, most of whom write poetry themselves"

Is this a group of ponies, that can rhyme?

That I would pay to see, ironically



judsoN wrote:

> >my reason for refusing to (try to) get my texts published is a
> >complex of motivations and you should read it in the context of
> >publishing poetry specifically. So let me explain that context and
> >its consequences first:
> >Poetry written in a small language like Dutch is by itself a very
> >marginal affair, so it is more a question of maximizing your
> >audience than of economical choices. If you choose to publish within
> >the existing publishing print market you're likely to get a maximum
> >of 200 to 1000 readers, a pretty stable audience of well trained
> >interested individuals, most of whom write poetry themselves. Add to
> >that that when you do this, you generate a reflex with people
> >outside that elite circle that you are categorising yourself as
> >someone who writes elite poetry. So imho it's rather the contrary of
> >being 'judgmental',
> this is a really interesting problem. so glad you told us about it.


Re: Re: Re: Net Art Market

To take this further, isn't the very idea of producing work which is beyond the commodifying process, of making something which has some resonance for other people, but has no possibility of being reduced to capital just magnificent and life re-affirming?

Michael Szpakowski wrote:

> Absolutely! This Marxist at least Curt, has no problem
> accepting your characterisation of at least some of
> the roots of art.
> Marx wouldn't have either.
> Ryan is spot on, too, on who actually does sound like
> that -ie. the free marketeers; and, admittedly, also
> those who have drunk deep of the poisoned well of
> academic Marxism as it descends from Zhdanov and Mao
> -although given the political evolution of many of
> those, at least in the UK, it's quite difficuly to
> tell the two camps apart. I hear, for example, New
> Labour, loud and clear.
> best
> michael
> --- ryan griffis <> wrote:
> > >
> > >> art only exists as a solution, a vehicle, for
> > getting
> > >> what you really want, be it respect or a new pair
> > of shoes.
> > >
> > > This kind of statement always riles me. It's so
> > materialistic,
> > > cynical, and overly simplistic. It's like
> > something a marxist
> > > economist would teach to freshmen. What if making
> > art is a
> > > celebration? What if it's play? What if it's
> > worship out of a heart
> > > of thanksgiving for the mere fact that we exist?
> > It's pretty cold
> > > (but not at all uncommon) to reduce play and
> > celebration and worship
> > > to unconscious self-serving activity. I object.
> >
> > curt,
> > i understand your response to the above statement,
> > which i object to as
> > well... i agree with many of your contributions to
> > the discussion on
> > selling net art, etc.
> > but to label that above statement as similar to a
> > marxist position
> > might as well be red baiting. marx was not
> > anti-play. and the notion
> > that someone would work as something other than an
> > artist, then spend
> > leisure time engaging in creative activity in order
> > to create something
> > aesthetic, participate in a community, or learn more
> > about something is
> > entirely a marxist one.
> > i would replace "marxist economist" in your response
> > to "classical
> > economist" or if you want to be more specific,
> > possibly a "free market
> > economist." viewing work as a means to obtaining
> > shoes (unless you're
> > making your own shoes) is the position of capital,
> > not marxism.
> > ryan
> >
> > +
> > -> post:
> > -> questions:
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >
> > -> give:
> > -> visit: on Fridays the web site is
> > open to non-members
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> > out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
> >
> >


Conference: The Ethics and Politics of Virtuality and Indexicality, Bradford, UK - June 30-July 3

Thu Jun 30, 2005 00:00 - Mon Apr 11, 2005

CongressCATH 2005

The Ethics and Politics of Virtuality and Indexicality

CongressCATH 2005, the fourth of a promoted by CentreCATH, will take place in Bradford, UK from the 30th of June to the 3rd of July 2005, at the National Museum of Photography, Film & Television


The invited speakers are:

Katherine Hayles, University of California, Los Angeles
Brian Massumi, University of Montreal
Martha Rosler, Mason Gross School of the Arts, Rutgers University
Samuel Weber, Northwestern University
Paul Willeman, University of Ulster

Hyped by the techno-enthusiasts and cybersurfers, virtuality is both a qualitatively new dimension of cultural practice and experience and a continuing, if shifting, term of human practice - writing is virtual, thought is virtual, psychic structures are virtual. The current opposition of virtuality to materiality or the contrast between older technologies of representation and information to newer ones are in need of critical re-evaluation. Opposing virtuality to indexicality insists upon the problematic of semiosis and representation but returns us to ethical and political questions about the production and dissemination of meanings and the processes of creative intervention in a rapidly shifting moment of technological, economica, political and social transformation. CentreCATH aims to intervene by bringing together in a transdisciplinary forum competing theorists and practioners to debate the tensions and politics of indexicality and virtuality.

The core areas we shall be investigating are: Narratives of the Web; Creative and Critical Art and Digitality; Philosophical Reflections on the Virtual; Global Networks and their Politics; Crises of History, Truth and Knowledge; Gender, Sexual and Cultural Difference and the Cyborg World Revisited; the Post-Human, Body, Mind and Psyche; History in the Age of New Technologies; Chaos, Turbulence and Liquid Theories of Modernity; Space, Place, Index and Virtual Creation; Democracy: Economy, Rethinking Indexicality and Representation.

The theme was suggested by Paul Willemen about the work of May Kelly in which he discussed recent videos/films in which the look of historical authenticity could be fabricated by the digital manipulation of imagery. In the moment of such technological virtualisation of image-world-making how could film makers or artists retain or create something that, in the semiotic terms of Charles Pierce, indexes the real, the social, and the historical? How do we know what is true or actual after the radical dissolution of the relations of representation that have been under extreme pressure since the beginnings of industrial capitalism as registered in the deep structure of modernist arts and literatures which pushed to the limits the dislocation of representation and its referents. A second point of entry comes through the debates about aesthetics ‘after Auschwitz’ or catastrophe in which the overwhelming character of the ‘real’ of genocidal atrocity refuses all representation - as re-presentation.

Virtuality is at the same time a creative tool in a range of modellings and scientific explorations of worlds that can be theoretically imagined but not tested according to traditional scientific models of observation. The visual imagination and the design of virtual worlds is a major area of creativity at the intersection with technology anticipated and explored in advance by science fiction while what was before considered imaginary now becomes a virtualised real accessed through digital technologies. Questions of the status of the body and its foundation for human thought and experience are also key to this debate and the philosophical currents of post phenomenological thought and the new directions marked out by Gilles Deleuze will form an important theoretical area.

Gender, sexuality and identity are also refashioned in the shift from indexical to virtual and this will form an important strand of the project and the debate about the human and the post-human. Artists working either with new media at the crossroads with communications and digital technologies will be in debate with others for whom the making and the experience of art are in resistance to the loss of boundaries

Many theorists, literary critics, philosophers and artists have been examining the implications of virtualisation in terms of truth, real, the fictive, the possible, in terms of its implications for subjectivity and theories of the human and the post-human. Others address the losses entailed; of the historically grounded, of the function of cultural memory as means of transmission and connection with historical pasts, of the erosion of what has been at the heart of humanist thought.

This conference will address the ethics and the politics of virtuality and indexicality hoping to bring together scholars, artists and thinkers to produce a balanced but engaged debate about the transformations created in the digitalised moment of information technology and new media, challenging the concepts of the post-human and exploring how relations of indexicality as a kind of necessary ‘reality’ check may be embedded in this stage of social and cultural life.


please do not colonise



Re: Re: FW: information wants to be free

Hi Christina, Rob

Re Rob's waryness of historical materialisms materialising tendencies.... Everybodys at it!

Rob Myers wrote:

> Thanks for this! I'm waiting for a copy of 'The Hacker manifesto' in
> the mail...
> My standard response to the quote "information wants to be free" is
> "OK, give me your credit card details then". :-)
> Money is information. I think Neal Stevenson's recent work touches on
> this.
> The programmers I work with who have a ridiculous fear of unionizing
> nonetheless liked the idea of asynchronously optimizing the flow of
> information through the network they operate within. Or striking to
> get
> a pay rise as it used to be known. :-)
> Do be wary of historical materialism's fetishism of physical objects
> and its resulting need for the nonphysical to be physical in order to
> be tractable (I say this in spite of my love of HM art criticism).
> Images and other historical but meta-physical occurrences cause
> difficulty for HM critiques, and can distort theory around them.
> - Rob.
> On 9 Jan 2005, at 07:38, Christina McPhee wrote:
> > Apologies for cross posting. Interesting text; info is material.