Michael Szpakowski
Since the beginning
Works in Harlow United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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Discussions (988) Opportunities (3) Events (14) Jobs (0)
DISCUSSION

Re: Re: Re: ART, Inc. necessary evil


<... should make their texts as easy to read as
possible without sacrificing the meaning they are
trying to convey...>
excellent! -it should be a kind of hippocratic oath
for artists , philosophers and politicians.
..and how easy to encapsulate thusly and how difficult
to do!
Michael

=====
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/

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OPPORTUNITY

call for writers


Deadline:
Tue Nov 19, 2002 01:00

somedancersandmusicians.com is seeking opera libretti, on any subject and
exactly 100 words long, for a forthcoming net.art project '5 operas' .
All submissions will be displayed on the site and in
January 2003 five libretti will be selected for use in the project.
The payment rate for each selected piece will be $1 per word.
For details please follow the link at
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/index.html


DISCUSSION

eight net.artists remix/remake/remodel at somedancersandmusicians.com


Works by richard arnold, babel, chris bassett,
agricola de cologne, com-deco.com, jarek, jess loseby,
wowm.
Eight artists submitted nine pieces in answer to a
call to remix/remake/remodel work on the
'Somedancers....' site.
The varied, interesting and often beautiful results of
their labours can be seen at
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/re/index.html

Michael

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http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/

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DISCUSSION

Re: RE: Re: Charity CD Project


Mark & list
I don't think anyone disputes that a fund raiser would
be anything but token financially.
I've certainly expressed myself in favour of fees and
am willing to pay in order to keep Rhizome viable.
Neither do I think anyone was asking for it to be an
'official' Rhizome project.
What it would do is to provided excellent publicity
for Rhizome's cause and show the
solidarity of the Rhizome 'community', which might
just impress potential funders.
Unfortunately I think the negative tone of your mail
will effectivley act as a spoiler in terms of a call
for work on this list from as wide a range of known
and unknown artists as would have been possible.
I hope I'm wrong -I'd like the thing to happen and if
people are up for it then they should
post to that effect.
I can't help feeling though in this instance that an
appeal to 'the Rhizome community' was good insofar as
it obtained an endorsement of fees but that it wasn't
*really* intended to engender a wide and self starting
debate or activity from Rhizome members.
A pity.
Michael

--- Mark Tribe <mt@rhizome.org> wrote:
> At 03:49 PM 11/5/2002 +0000, leewells@bb19.net
> wrote:
> >I agree.
> >One thing we do need to consider is file size
> limits.
> >If we are going to use a cd that doesn't leave us
> that much
> >room, I guess we could upgrade to dvd.
> >
> >Once the official call of artists is relieced. Who
> will manage the
> >submissions? What would be the best way of
> organizing the content? I was
> >thinking all submitted content should be housed on
> individual urls
> >provided by the artists. Then we would only have to
> arrange and organize
> >the links. One submission per artist or group of
> artists.
> >
> >Anyways...I'm at work and have to go.
> >Let keep it rolling.
> >
> >Mark, do you have any thoughts on this. Ways of
> making this run smoothly.
>
> Okay, here are my thoughts on the charity CD idea.
> First, I really
> appreciate the sentiment behind it. It's wonderful
> that you want to support
> Rhizome.org and are willing to donate your time and
> art work.
>
> That said, I think it will take a lot of work to
> pull it off. And even if
> it turns out great, it will be very hard to sell
> enough copies to earn a
> significant amount of money. So although it may be
> worth while as an end in
> itself, I don't think it makes sense on a strictly
> financial level as a
> fundraising tool. That's why I don't want to devote
> any of our very limited
> resources to this project. Sorry to be a wet
> blanket, but it's my job to
> make these kinds of decisions.
>
> Because we are a registered not-for-profit
> organization, we must follow the
> US Charities laws, and there are a lot of them that
> pertain to this kind of
> thing. As we learned when we got involved in web
> hosting and online
> education, you have to be very careful when it comes
> to earned income. We
> can't afford to compromise our charitable status. So
> we'd either have to
> run the project ourselves (to make sure it complies
> with all the US
> Charities laws) or maintain a totally arms-length
> relationship. Since we
> don't think it would be a good use of our resources,
> our only option is to
> have nothing to do with it.
>
> Kinda sucks, but that's the way it is. If you still
> want to go ahead with,
> I suggest you handle it as follows:
>
> + Set up an independent group to produce/distribute
> a CD-ROM.
> + Manage all of your own income and expenses,
> including any in-kind donations.
> + Make it clear to all potential supporters of the
> production and buyers of
> the CD-ROM that you are the group that is producing
> the product, and that
> Rhizome is in no way involved in this production.
> + Then, if you choose to, you can say that a % of
> the proceeds will be
> donated to Rhizome.org and you (the group) can make
> a donation to Rhizome,
> and whoever the donation comes from will get the tax
> credit.
>
> This is the cleanest way to do it. You have control
> of what you want to do,
> we don't have to expend our scant resources
> overseeing it, and we also
> don't risk endangering our charitable status.
>
> Best,
>
> Mark
>
> + be me
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

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DISCUSSION

Re: Charity CD Project


<How about each peice use as input, output from
another piece on the CD? >
I think this is a great idea -we are talking artowrks
rather that audio CD here right?
Why not an immediate call for participants on the
list.
(maybe with specific mails to people it would be good
to target)
Then someone ( lee, joseph?) decides an order of play.
It's made clear that these things need to be made to a
shortish deadline
The first work is created and mailed or a link is sent
to the next artist, and so on.
The disadvantage here is that even if each artists
make a piece in a week we're still talking 20 weeks
so....
...to make it quicker I suggest the original work is
mailed to two artists and so on - or even maybe the
'order of play' could be Rhizome like.
The thing i really like about this format is that it
feels very collective- it would also be great to have
artists who have engaged in fairly fierce polemic on
the list united in common cause -how about Grancher
remixes Cloninger or vice versa &c.( maybe this is a
bit unlikely but you get the point!)
anyway thats my two penny worth.
best
michael

>
>
> joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
> frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
>
> go shopping ->
> http://www.electrichands.com/shopindex.htm
> call me 646 279 2309
>
>
>
> Quoting Lee Wells <leewells@bb19.net>:
>
> > Hello all
> >
> > Should we decide upon a theme?
> > What are the primary social topics discussed on
> Rhizome?
> > First thing to come to mind for me was, kNOwwWARe.
> > All just a play on words, sounds, images.
> > I think it should make people laugh. People need
> to laugh more.
> > How can we make this more of a collaboration that
> a group of individuals
> > from Rhizome making a compilation CD?
> >
> > Help me out here
> > Cheers
> > Lee
> >
> >
> > on 11/4/02 1:57 PM, Max Herman at
> maxnmherman@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > This is going to have to wait for me till Jan
> 03. I'll be off neternet
> > > stuff till then.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: joseph@electrichands.com
> > >> To: Lee Wells <leewells@bb19.net>
> > >> CC: Max Herman <maxnmherman@hotmail.com>,
> mt@rhizome.org,list@rhizome.org
> > >> Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Membership fee?
> > >> Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 02:52:32 +0000
> > >>
> > >> Ok lets get it organized.
> > >>
> > >> Max, you curate the CD show.
> > >> Lee, you promote the show
> > >> I will get the first 100 CDs mastered and
> printed.
> > >>
> > >> We sell it for $50 bucks a peice.
> > >>
> > >> I cover my costs and Rhizome should net around
> $4500
> > >>
> > >> Ready 2 go?
> > >>
> > >> joseph
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Quoting Lee Wells <leewells@bb19.net>:
> > >>
> > >>> I donate art to Rhizome, music, images, etc.
> The CD Idea is preaty good
> > >> and
> > >>> has worked for other nonprofit org like,
> Lumpen Magazine in Chicago.
> > >>> http://www.lumpen.com/
> > >>>
> > >>> on 10/25/02 2:12 AM, Max Herman at
> maxnmherman@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Yeah, I was thinking a big fatty music CD,
> all proceeds to Rhizome,
> > >> I'd
> > >>>> donate a song'r two.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> From: joseph@electrichands.com
> > >>>>> Reply-To: joseph@electrichands.com
> > >>>>> To: Mark Tribe <mt@rhizome.org>
> > >>>>> CC: list@rhizome.org
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Membership fee?
> > >>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 05:45:52 +0000
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Its time to talk about industry mergers.
> Forget the membership fees,
> > >> very
> > >>>>> few
> > >>>>> will pay. If you are about to fold, either
> fold, or start a capital
> > >>>>> campaign
> > >>>>> to raise 7 figures. Fold or Bold.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> joseph
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Quoting Mark Tribe <mt@rhizome.org>:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hi Rhizomers:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I am hoping to start a discussion here on
> Raw about Rhizome's
> > >> financial
> > >>>>>> situation and a possible solution. This
> email is rather long, but
> > >> I'd
> > >>>>>> appreciate it if you'd take the time to
> read it through, give it
> > >> some
> > >>>>>> thought, and let me know what you think.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> First, some background information. It will
> cost about $400,000 to
> > >>>>> operate
> > >>>>>> Rhizome.org this year. Here's how we spend
> it: $6,000 on
> > >> administrative
> > >>>>>> fees (mostly processing credit card gifts);
> $122,000 on operating
> > >>>>> expenses
> > >>>>>> (phone, rent, web hosting, office supplies,
> etc.); $177,000 on
> > >> payroll
> > >>>>>> costs (salaries, health insurance, payroll
> taxes, etc.); $93,000 on
> > >>>>>> professional fees (writers, commissions,
> consultants, etc.). These
> > >>>>> numbers
> > >>>>>> may seem high to some of you, but we
> actually run a very lean,
> > >> efficient
> > >>>>>> operation. It simply costs a lot of money
> to run a nonprofit
> > >>>>> organization
> > >>>>>> that offers as many programs to as many
> people as we do.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> In the past, most of our revenue has come
> from foundations, but
> > >>>>> foundation
> > >>>>>> support is shrinking. We had hoped to make
> up the difference through
> > >>>>> earned
> > >>>>>> income from web hosting and online
> education, but those services are
> > >>>>>> getting off to a slow start. We have also,
> as you surely know, tried
> > >>>>> asking
> > >>>>>> for voluntary contributions. But so far
> this year only about 1% of
> > >> our
> > >>>>>> 19,000 members have made gifts.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> The Rhizome Board of Directors met for its
> quarterly meeting last
> > >>>>> Friday.
> > >>>>>> The main topic was how to solve our
> financial problems. I proposed
> > >>>>> putting
> > >>>>>> the organization into hibernation mode.
> This would entail shutting
> > >> down
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>>> office, laying off the staff and
> discontinuing most of our programs.
> > >> We
> > >>>>>> would keep the web site up, ask the
> SuperUsers to continue to
> > >> publish
> > >>>>>> texts, and keep Raw online. But everything
> else would stop: no more
> > >>>>> Digest
> > >>>>>> or Net Art News, no more commissions, no
> more events. We'd stop
> > >> adding
> > >>>>> new
> > >>>>>> projects to the ArtBase, stop improving the
> web site (we have a long
> > >>>>> list
> > >>>>>> of bugs to fix and features to add) and
> stop planning new programs.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> The Board felt that hibernation would be a
> big mistake. Once we went
> > >>>>> into
> > >>>>>> hibernation, they argued, it would be very
> hard to re-emerge and
>
=== message truncated ===

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