Harry Callahan. His name should be shouted from the
rooftops.
michael
--- "Marisa S. Olson" <marisa@sfcamerawork.org> wrote:
> what photographers, or artists working with
> photography, do rhizomers
> find UNDER-rated? just curious... marisa
>
>
> _________________
> Marisa S. Olson
> Associate Director
> SF Camerawork
> 415. 863. 1001
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
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Hi Ivan
I think you're being a tad curmudgeonly here.
It hardly takes a massive intellectual effort to
relate to US cultural events/traditions,
certainly less than to read Levi, or Dickens or
Shakespeare and it strikes me as philistinism to boast
of one's ignorance of any field ( even national
holidays, traditions or currency - don't you read
American literature? - it's more interesting and far
less smug and parochial than anything being produced
on our side of the Atlantic)
I worry about this UK/USA, us & them tone that
occasionally creeps into posts (I mean in general -
I'm not singling you out for some sort of attack),
after all the point of the original post was broadly
speaking a progressive one.
best
Michael

--- Ivan Pope <ivan@ivanpope.com> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Francis Hwang <francis@rhizome.org>
> > And although some of the references in the NAN
> piece could've been
> explained for the benefit of non-USian members,
> overall I don't see why its
> topicality should be in question, considering how
> political this list is. In
> the U.S., we consume a tremendous amount of junk,
> and then our government
> enforces economic imperialism using a number of
> brutal mechanisms, ranging
> from armed intervention to the Bretton Woods
> institutions. It's a problem
> that comes out of the U.S., but it affects the
> entire world in a fairly
> direct way.
> >
> > Saying U.S. consumerism is only of interest to
> U.S. citizens is like
> saying the Holocaust is only of interest to Germans.
>
> Actually I was saying that Thanksgiving Day only
> means anything to citizens
> of the US. In the UK there is no buying surge at
> this point of the calendar.
> And we don't know when Thanksgiving Day is or why.
> So to tie a no buying day
> to a purely US event means the day is at least
> conceptually a US thing.
> I know its sometimes hard for US residents to see
> that we do not
> automatically understand your cultural references -
> but surely that is part
> of the problem.
> Cheers,
> Ivan
>
> + the internet is not your life.
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
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Nice to see you back Max.
michael
--- Max Herman <maxnmherman@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm having withdrawal symptoms from the internet,
> talking to people here, etc. My sobriety seems
> pretty good, I like being sober, over two months
> now, but of course as I wake up from drink I get
> these big stress-feelings. It's very confusing.
> Uncomfortably depressive.
>
> If Rhizomelist has been much better since I've been
> gone, tell me that. If you think I should focus on
> things like meditation, diet, exercise, and so
> forth, to assist with depression rather than go back
> onto lists, you can say that too.
>
> I would also like to regular mail audio tapes of my
> band Shlagel to someone in the US who could put them
> online. They are one-track recordings from a room
> mic (cheap boombox) but they're good enough for the
> web. Plus if you have the ability to work with the
> sound digitally they might be improved. It's
> basically four-piece rock and roll, all originals,
> say 25 songs, some covers also.
>
> I've been thinking a lot about the things
> Death/Karei said about me, quite a variety of
> things, all of course blended with all the other
> stuff in my head, new stuff coming into my head,
> etc.
>
> This is kind of an experiment to see if posting
> again will help stop my depression from coming back.
> When I quit drinking in January 2000 I got very
> depressed about whether thinking and expressing the
> way I do was terribly bad, horrendous, vicious,
> whatever. Pretty much all the real humans I hung
> out with at the time agreed that my expressive
> activity was killing me, and the way to lick
> depression was to quit it entirely and say go to law
> school or be a teacher and so. It's been a
> recurring pattern in my life, of trying to
> articulate something, then showing it to someone,
> them not liking it, me getting depressed about it,
> despairing, then kind of starting over. If you
> think this is because I have mental illness,
> character defects, character disorders, or whatever
> other kinds of personal problems, tell me that
> please.
>
> What doesn't work is the idea that the CIA or NSA
> will terminate me if I express myself the way I want
> to. I just can't digest that one. I also concede
> that perhaps my brain or mind is equally as
> polluted, damaged, and degraded as my body.
>
> It also depresses me to think as if Karei is a
> disgusting vermin, because it just doesn't digest.
> He seems to have some energy that might benefit me.
> I acknowledge that he is certainly tremendously
> correct about the majority of his criticisms of me,
> but I am also upset that I either did or could not
> reply to him in the best manner.
>
> There must be those who would say that Karei is a
> leper and has to be shunned etc. Same thing about
> myself. I have unease about some answers or
> expressions I want to say to him.
>
> The idea that my duty, responsibility, or destiny is
> to write a very good salable book and stop wasting
> my energy on lists may be true. I'm writing a book
> about Genius 2000 called "Genius 2000 (A New
> History)" but I am still having this depressive
> reaction to life sober. It just started about three
> days ago; before that I felt really good about being
> clean forever.
>
> Spirituality is one thing that Karei mentioned, so
> maybe that is some common topic he and I can
> discuss. Of course I have no right or authority to
> choose the topic, or use coercive mob tactics
> against him or anyone else.
>
> As for the mob support of Genius 2000, from my own
> vantage I see it the other way around, that the
> respectable mob is persecuting me.
>
> Like I said this is just an experiment to see if
> posting again can help my depression not come back.
>
> Max Herman
> www.geocities.com/genius-2000/55.JPG (summer 1983
> doodle)
>
> ++
>
> + the internet is not your life.
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> Membership Agreement available online at
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'A Walk Around Gilston - Essex/Hertfordshire border -
with Janet and Jo -
12 noon to 12.50 - 21st November 2002'

http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/walk/start.html

make sure sound is on; requires shockwave.

best
Michael

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of course the notion that artists should be 'as
complex as necessary but no more so' or ' they should
make their texts as easy to read as
possible without
sacrificing the meaning they are trying to convey.'
or however one chooses to put it, begs a lot of very
interesting questions about what exactly constitutes
artistic 'clarity'. I don't think a definition of this
would exclude complexity , depth or richness all of
which qualities seem to me to be pretty well
*defining* in terms of art.
I just got home from a performance of Heiner Goebbel's
'Hashirigaki' ( Brits out there -it's at the Barbican
till Saturday -buy or steal a ticket - it's
stunning!)and both of us who went agreed that we felt
the the piece achieved an enormous level of clarity
but without having a clear narrative & with a real
depth of light and shade and very wide and complex
cultural references from Brian Wilson to kabuki ( and
which tellingly in this context never came over as
clever-clever or showing off)
I'd have to do a lot of thinking to articulate why I
can justify that feeling of clarity but I'm convinced
I could. I'm convinced thee are hard won but
relatively clear words that would explain this
feeling.
As for philosophers Curt - don't let them off the
hook! -actually they and politicians and cultural
commentators and sociologists &c&c should be granted
*less* licence than artists in my view.
best
michael

--- "t.whid" <twhid@mteww.com> wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, November 19, 2002, at 05:22 PM, curt
> cloninger wrote:
>
> > t:
> > should philosophers make their texts easy to read
> so that the general
> > public can understand it?
> >
> > c:
>
> >
>
> hah! can't argue with that. of course a writer
> should attempt to be
> clear. artists have the privilege of being ambiguous
> tho.
>
> + pre.live.life.net.post.real.social.sensitive.art.?
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