Michael Szpakowski
Since the beginning
Works in Harlow United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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DISCUSSION

Re: On the profound and meaningful (was A Posteriori art)


In my view "art" means nothing, cannot even exist,
without the ongoing human dialogue that surrounds it.

It's not as simple as "let history judge" because
tastes change, artists are rediscovered but the
"meaning " of art surely lies in the ongoing human
dialogues that surround it and these are contributed
to by all sorts of factors , historical, social,
economic and political, plus the bodies of thoughts
and words about art that we might designate
"aesthetics" and the sum of technical practice that we
call "tradition".
I'm not arguing a relativist position here - a good
deal of the meaning *is* within the artist's control (
conscious or otherwise)- it does matter, I think, what
the artist "means"- but without society, without the
possibilty of a listener, viewer, to complete the
equation I don't believe we can talk of art.
Seen in this context many different practices-
outsider art, the conceptual, Ivan's "deliberately
shallow"- take on meaning through all the human voices
and minds that dialogue with them and discover their
weight over time in history and human culture.
That dialogue has made for example ,Duchamp, a
significant figure. Whether the same will happen to
Hirst or the lights-on-&-off-guy, whose name I can't
even be bothered to summon up, remains to be seen.
Anyway my general point is that although the artist
herself has some control over where her work fits and
how it means, that this control is necessarily and in
all cases circumscribed, and that this is both a
powerful explanatory factor and something profoundly (
sorry Ivan!) to be welcomed
best
michael
--- Ivan Pope <ivan@ivanpope.com> wrote:
> > Ivan Pope mentioned that he knows plenty of
> artists who set out to make
> work
> > that is shallow and meaningless and that this
> seems like a valid response
> to
> > the world. Well, doesn't it then have the
> potential to be profound and
> > meaningful in it's meaninglessness?
>
> Well, yes, that was my point.
>
> Anyway, to demonstrate the difficulty of using a
> glib phrase like 'profound
> & meaningful' to define what artists attempt to do,
> consider the definitions
> of profound (from dictionary.com):
>
> 1. Situated at, extending to, or coming from a great
> depth; deep.
> 2. Coming as if from the depths of one's being:
> profound contempt.
> 3. Thoroughgoing; far-reaching: profound social
> changes.
> 4. Penetrating beyond what is superficial or
> obvious: a profound insight.
> 5. Unqualified; absolute: a profound silence.
>
> Do we use profound here to mean coming from the
> depths of one's being or do
> we mean penetrating beyond what is superficial?
> Surely these are very
> different things.
>
> Cheers,
> Ivan
>
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DISCUSSION

Re: A Posteriori Art


<OK, blather over>
Personally I can't see the quote from Ivan (
reproduced below) or indeed the whole post, as
'blather' at all but an honest and vulnerable attempt
to talk about the mechanics and psychology of 'doing
art'.
It's a sign of how much this sort debate has been
hijacked by academic obscurantism and a particularly
mean spirited version of cool that Ivan has to append
the 'blather' tag, almost in preemptive self defence.
It's a feature of Eryk Salvaggio's and Curt
Cloninger's posts also that occasionally they can be
irritating as fuck but that collectively their passion
and thought and willingness to lay themselves on the
line makes their stuff consistently interesting.
More of all please.
Up with sincerity! Up with risk taking!
michael

<Personally, I know that there is something deep
inside myself that wants to
be expressed. I know that I have certain skill sets
and a love of creating
things that are not really that useful in a
functional sense. These
attributes of myself have led me up and down and
round and round in my life.
They are not all art skills, there are
entrepreneurial skills which are as
deeply embedded. And while I have skills such as
aesthetic and motor skills
which mean I can produce beautiful objects, doing so
quickly leaves me
bored. I have looked deep into this issue as regards
myself and have come to
the conclusion that art is really what I should do.
That said, I am still
unsure on a day to day basis how one really goes
about this in an honest
way. I am still prone to temptation to produce stuff
that looks like art.
But, on a good day, new stuff will bubble out from
who knows where, no
thoughts of profoundity or meaning bothering the
creative act. And my
validation comes form outside myself. And not even
from the art world.>

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DISCUSSION

new work


http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/diary/diary.html
Sound essential.
best
michael

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DISCUSSION

protest against victimization of school student


If you tried to e mail a protest to the school and got
an error message, please forward it to

learning@essexcc.gov.uk

and mention "Helena Romanes" School in the body of the
message.
Thanks
michael

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DISCUSSION

school student victimized for protesting war - please read and act!


Hi
Please have a read of the following and e mail and
send protests to the e mail address at the end.
For US readers -this girl must have extraordinary
courage to have organized a protest of 500 in what is
a quiet rural backwater of Essex, UK.
The school authorities are behaving with real
vindictiveness - she is about to sit what are the most
important examinations in the UK school system.
Please bombard them with protest mails and forward
this to any appropritate recipients.
best
michael

Dear All,

Elena Grice, a school student at Helens Romanes School
in Dunmow has
been
suspended for 30 days for leading a walkout of 500
students protesting
the
outbreak of war. This exclusion includes the period of
her GCSE exams.
She
is only allowed on premises to sit them and hence will
miss out the
whole
preparation and revision period. As far as the Stop
the War Coalition
is
aware this is the most severe punishment inflicted on
any school
student
anywhere for protesting against the war. The
Headteacher says it is
because
she disobeyed his instructions and was abusive to a
teacher (she called
the
teacher a 'fascist cow'!). This is a ridiculous and
totally
disproprtionate
response to an action that was taken by thousands of
school students in
support of the STWC call. The result is that her
future could be
irreparably
damaged by this cruel and unparalled decision.
Can all opponents of the war now act in her defence
and bombard the
school
with messages of support for her and condemnation of
their actions.

Yours fraternally

Paul Topley
The address is:
hrschool@rmplc.co.uk

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