Michael Szpakowski
Since the beginning
Works in Harlow United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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DISCUSSION

Re: dream7 piece


Yes it's a nice piece.
I like the way that it feels net idiomatic but without
recourse to having the viewer click for the sake of
it.
There is a kind of genre of
noninteractive-"movies"-for-the-net which don't seem
to have the kudos amongst the big hitters of things
like pieces about surveillance cameras and the like
and which hence feel a bit marginal, but which I find
consistently exciting and interesting and which I
suspect will turn out in the big scheme of things to
have rather more importance than they are accorded
now.
The visuals in themselves are very satisfying
-obviously thought and care went into them.
I do wonder whether the Baudrillard text adds anything
at all though- it feels like a belated nod to
orthodoxy.
best
michael

--- Eryk Salvaggio <eryk@maine.rr.com> wrote:
> http://www.dream7.com/bioready/
>
>
> Some good work I haven't seen mentioned here, dream7
> and fakeshop.
>
> -e.
>

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DISCUSSION

Re: On the profound and meaningful (was A Posteriori art)


Jess:
in my book it was.
best
michael
--- Jess Loseby <jess@rssgallery.com> wrote:
>
> > The sharpest contribution I read was from Jess who
> can
> > hardly be accused of being at the centre of the
> > international art establishment-
> I'll take that as a compliment - I think !!!
> hee! hee! hee!!
> j.
> o
> /^ rssgallery.com
> ][
>
>
>
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DISCUSSION

Re: On the profound and meaningful (was A Posteriori art)


Whoops -meant to post the following to the list, but
half asleep & sent it only to the individuals
concerned.

Hi Eryk
I haven't read every post in this thread -so I missed
Dyske getting called a fascist -clearly as ridiculous
as Valery Grancher's similar attack on you last year.
But have we been reading the same things here? -I saw
a whole number of fairly nuanced posts in which I
found something to agree in most of them - & I think
this is because people were posting quite thoughtful ,
provisional stuff.
I thought T.Whid's contributions in particular were
thought provoking and ,you know, personally I *do*
quite often change my opinions as a result of the
arguments of others.
The sharpest contribution I read was from Jess who can
hardly be accused of being at the centre of the
international art establishment- and her point I think
was polemical but fair
I'd be very sorry if you decided to limit your
contributions merely to announcements &c - naturally I
don't agree with every one ( or perhaps nowadays even
a majority) of your positions but I never find what
you have to say less than interesting.
I urge you -reread all the posts - was the overall
tone and content really that negative?
best
michael

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DISCUSSION

Re: On the profound and meaningful (was A Posteriori art)


In my view "art" means nothing, cannot even exist,
without the ongoing human dialogue that surrounds it.

It's not as simple as "let history judge" because
tastes change, artists are rediscovered but the
"meaning " of art surely lies in the ongoing human
dialogues that surround it and these are contributed
to by all sorts of factors , historical, social,
economic and political, plus the bodies of thoughts
and words about art that we might designate
"aesthetics" and the sum of technical practice that we
call "tradition".
I'm not arguing a relativist position here - a good
deal of the meaning *is* within the artist's control (
conscious or otherwise)- it does matter, I think, what
the artist "means"- but without society, without the
possibilty of a listener, viewer, to complete the
equation I don't believe we can talk of art.
Seen in this context many different practices-
outsider art, the conceptual, Ivan's "deliberately
shallow"- take on meaning through all the human voices
and minds that dialogue with them and discover their
weight over time in history and human culture.
That dialogue has made for example ,Duchamp, a
significant figure. Whether the same will happen to
Hirst or the lights-on-&-off-guy, whose name I can't
even be bothered to summon up, remains to be seen.
Anyway my general point is that although the artist
herself has some control over where her work fits and
how it means, that this control is necessarily and in
all cases circumscribed, and that this is both a
powerful explanatory factor and something profoundly (
sorry Ivan!) to be welcomed
best
michael
--- Ivan Pope <ivan@ivanpope.com> wrote:
> > Ivan Pope mentioned that he knows plenty of
> artists who set out to make
> work
> > that is shallow and meaningless and that this
> seems like a valid response
> to
> > the world. Well, doesn't it then have the
> potential to be profound and
> > meaningful in it's meaninglessness?
>
> Well, yes, that was my point.
>
> Anyway, to demonstrate the difficulty of using a
> glib phrase like 'profound
> & meaningful' to define what artists attempt to do,
> consider the definitions
> of profound (from dictionary.com):
>
> 1. Situated at, extending to, or coming from a great
> depth; deep.
> 2. Coming as if from the depths of one's being:
> profound contempt.
> 3. Thoroughgoing; far-reaching: profound social
> changes.
> 4. Penetrating beyond what is superficial or
> obvious: a profound insight.
> 5. Unqualified; absolute: a profound silence.
>
> Do we use profound here to mean coming from the
> depths of one's being or do
> we mean penetrating beyond what is superficial?
> Surely these are very
> different things.
>
> Cheers,
> Ivan
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
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DISCUSSION

Re: A Posteriori Art


<OK, blather over>
Personally I can't see the quote from Ivan (
reproduced below) or indeed the whole post, as
'blather' at all but an honest and vulnerable attempt
to talk about the mechanics and psychology of 'doing
art'.
It's a sign of how much this sort debate has been
hijacked by academic obscurantism and a particularly
mean spirited version of cool that Ivan has to append
the 'blather' tag, almost in preemptive self defence.
It's a feature of Eryk Salvaggio's and Curt
Cloninger's posts also that occasionally they can be
irritating as fuck but that collectively their passion
and thought and willingness to lay themselves on the
line makes their stuff consistently interesting.
More of all please.
Up with sincerity! Up with risk taking!
michael

<Personally, I know that there is something deep
inside myself that wants to
be expressed. I know that I have certain skill sets
and a love of creating
things that are not really that useful in a
functional sense. These
attributes of myself have led me up and down and
round and round in my life.
They are not all art skills, there are
entrepreneurial skills which are as
deeply embedded. And while I have skills such as
aesthetic and motor skills
which mean I can produce beautiful objects, doing so
quickly leaves me
bored. I have looked deep into this issue as regards
myself and have come to
the conclusion that art is really what I should do.
That said, I am still
unsure on a day to day basis how one really goes
about this in an honest
way. I am still prone to temptation to produce stuff
that looks like art.
But, on a good day, new stuff will bubble out from
who knows where, no
thoughts of profoundity or meaning bothering the
creative act. And my
validation comes form outside myself. And not even
from the art world.>

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