Michael Szpakowski
Since the beginning
Works in Harlow United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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DISCUSSION

Re: Re: dream7 piece


Hi Eryk
< dream7 and fakeshop *are* the "big hitters." :)>
is that so? -I obviously don't get out enough, real or
virtually.
What I do find though is that looking at new media art
that gains funding here in the UK is it tends to be
"high concept" ( and often about surveillance cameras,
the internet, search engines, global positioning
software blah blah blah) and not at all the kind of
,loosely speaking, 'narrative' work that I see and
admire in this piece.
From my passing acquaintance with museum curated net
art/new media art in the States this also seems to be
true over there.
Some of the positions taken on Rhizome do reflect this
tendency it's true, but by no means a majority, but
again I have to say I see in Rhizome a more diverse
and open group than you seem to.
Keep posting!
best
michael

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DISCUSSION

Re: dream7 piece


Yes it's a nice piece.
I like the way that it feels net idiomatic but without
recourse to having the viewer click for the sake of
it.
There is a kind of genre of
noninteractive-"movies"-for-the-net which don't seem
to have the kudos amongst the big hitters of things
like pieces about surveillance cameras and the like
and which hence feel a bit marginal, but which I find
consistently exciting and interesting and which I
suspect will turn out in the big scheme of things to
have rather more importance than they are accorded
now.
The visuals in themselves are very satisfying
-obviously thought and care went into them.
I do wonder whether the Baudrillard text adds anything
at all though- it feels like a belated nod to
orthodoxy.
best
michael

--- Eryk Salvaggio <eryk@maine.rr.com> wrote:
> http://www.dream7.com/bioready/
>
>
> Some good work I haven't seen mentioned here, dream7
> and fakeshop.
>
> -e.
>

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DISCUSSION

Re: On the profound and meaningful (was A Posteriori art)


Jess:
in my book it was.
best
michael
--- Jess Loseby <jess@rssgallery.com> wrote:
>
> > The sharpest contribution I read was from Jess who
> can
> > hardly be accused of being at the centre of the
> > international art establishment-
> I'll take that as a compliment - I think !!!
> hee! hee! hee!!
> j.
> o
> /^ rssgallery.com
> ][
>
>
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

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DISCUSSION

Re: On the profound and meaningful (was A Posteriori art)


Whoops -meant to post the following to the list, but
half asleep & sent it only to the individuals
concerned.

Hi Eryk
I haven't read every post in this thread -so I missed
Dyske getting called a fascist -clearly as ridiculous
as Valery Grancher's similar attack on you last year.
But have we been reading the same things here? -I saw
a whole number of fairly nuanced posts in which I
found something to agree in most of them - & I think
this is because people were posting quite thoughtful ,
provisional stuff.
I thought T.Whid's contributions in particular were
thought provoking and ,you know, personally I *do*
quite often change my opinions as a result of the
arguments of others.
The sharpest contribution I read was from Jess who can
hardly be accused of being at the centre of the
international art establishment- and her point I think
was polemical but fair
I'd be very sorry if you decided to limit your
contributions merely to announcements &c - naturally I
don't agree with every one ( or perhaps nowadays even
a majority) of your positions but I never find what
you have to say less than interesting.
I urge you -reread all the posts - was the overall
tone and content really that negative?
best
michael

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DISCUSSION

Re: On the profound and meaningful (was A Posteriori art)


In my view "art" means nothing, cannot even exist,
without the ongoing human dialogue that surrounds it.

It's not as simple as "let history judge" because
tastes change, artists are rediscovered but the
"meaning " of art surely lies in the ongoing human
dialogues that surround it and these are contributed
to by all sorts of factors , historical, social,
economic and political, plus the bodies of thoughts
and words about art that we might designate
"aesthetics" and the sum of technical practice that we
call "tradition".
I'm not arguing a relativist position here - a good
deal of the meaning *is* within the artist's control (
conscious or otherwise)- it does matter, I think, what
the artist "means"- but without society, without the
possibilty of a listener, viewer, to complete the
equation I don't believe we can talk of art.
Seen in this context many different practices-
outsider art, the conceptual, Ivan's "deliberately
shallow"- take on meaning through all the human voices
and minds that dialogue with them and discover their
weight over time in history and human culture.
That dialogue has made for example ,Duchamp, a
significant figure. Whether the same will happen to
Hirst or the lights-on-&-off-guy, whose name I can't
even be bothered to summon up, remains to be seen.
Anyway my general point is that although the artist
herself has some control over where her work fits and
how it means, that this control is necessarily and in
all cases circumscribed, and that this is both a
powerful explanatory factor and something profoundly (
sorry Ivan!) to be welcomed
best
michael
--- Ivan Pope <ivan@ivanpope.com> wrote:
> > Ivan Pope mentioned that he knows plenty of
> artists who set out to make
> work
> > that is shallow and meaningless and that this
> seems like a valid response
> to
> > the world. Well, doesn't it then have the
> potential to be profound and
> > meaningful in it's meaninglessness?
>
> Well, yes, that was my point.
>
> Anyway, to demonstrate the difficulty of using a
> glib phrase like 'profound
> & meaningful' to define what artists attempt to do,
> consider the definitions
> of profound (from dictionary.com):
>
> 1. Situated at, extending to, or coming from a great
> depth; deep.
> 2. Coming as if from the depths of one's being:
> profound contempt.
> 3. Thoroughgoing; far-reaching: profound social
> changes.
> 4. Penetrating beyond what is superficial or
> obvious: a profound insight.
> 5. Unqualified; absolute: a profound silence.
>
> Do we use profound here to mean coming from the
> depths of one's being or do
> we mean penetrating beyond what is superficial?
> Surely these are very
> different things.
>
> Cheers,
> Ivan
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

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