marc garrett
Since the beginning
Works in London United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Marc Garrett is co-director and co-founder, with artist Ruth Catlow of the Internet arts collectives and communities –,,, also co-founder and co-curator/director of the gallery space formerly known as 'HTTP Gallery' now called the Furtherfield Gallery in London (Finsbury Park), UK. Co-curating various contemporary Media Arts exhibitions, projects nationally and internationally. Co-editor of 'Artists Re:Thinking Games' with Ruth Catlow and Corrado Morgana 2010. Hosted Furtherfield's critically acclaimed weekly broadcast on UK's Resonance FM Radio, a series of hour long live interviews with people working at the edge of contemporary practices in art, technology & social change. Currently doing an Art history Phd at the University of London, Birkbeck College.

Net artist, media artist, curator, writer, street artist, activist, educationalist and musician. Emerging in the late 80′s from the streets exploring creativity via agit-art tactics. Using unofficial, experimental platforms such as the streets, pirate radio such as the locally popular ‘Savage Yet Tender’ alternative broadcasting 1980′s group, net broadcasts, BBS systems, performance, intervention, events, pamphlets, warehouses and gallery spaces. In the early nineties, was co-sysop (systems operator) with Heath Bunting on Cybercafe BBS with

Our mission is to co-create extraordinary art that connects with contemporary audiences providing innovative, engaging and inclusive digital and physical spaces for appreciating and participating in practices in art, technology and social change. As well as finding alternative ways around already dominating hegemonies, thus claiming for ourselves and our peer networks a culturally aware and critical dialogue beyond traditional hierarchical behaviours. Influenced by situationist theory, fluxus, free and open source culture, and processes of self-education and peer learning, in an art, activist and community context.
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revisiting gulf war

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Re: Re: Ouch Those Monkeys

Re: Ouch Those Monkeys

At last! Someone bothering to listen - thanx for your reply.


> >
> awwww yeaaaaah!
> + in one ear and out your mother
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Re:'Six Rules Towards A New Internet Art'- Reconsidered

Hi Eryk,

I Just want to say first of all, that the text 'Six Rules Towards A New Int=
ernet Art' - Reconsidered, was an explorative piece of writing to observe (=
the in's and out's) of what the text was communicating to me as an individu=
al as well as an artist. It probably means something completely different t=
o each individual, pending their present situation and circumstance within =
a net art context.
> I don't see there being a flash / ascii binary or crew war. I mean I
> don't think you should look at what I am doing as a template for the
> work I think everyone else should be doing.

I am not necessarily looking at it as a template, but as a text that deserv=
es to be taken seriously and considered as a valid net art contribution. I =
know that putting the future of net art on your shoulders is silly and is n=
ot necessary, so I hope that I am not doing this simply by discussing its i=
deas. The influence of the rules has incurred much debate and has a permana=
nt place in the Rhizome database, the 'Text Object section'. An idea that h=
as presence. And ideas, once they leave the fold have a life of their own.=

> The rules are meant to say that is not dead and that software
> art was not the future of the medium. It's a response to people who say=

> "You can't really do anything interesting on a web page anymore." I'm
> just trying to say "Hey guys, it's fine not to use flash; and you don't=

> have to fall for all the same line of stuff that is supposed to 'be what=

> is about.'"

I agree with your statement above but do not see it written in your actual =
text, although I am the first to admit that one cannot say everything withi=
n one piece of text. All that constant re-editing, and when I have finished=
the bloody thing - I look at it and it still needs to be rewritten. You ha=
ve to stop somewhere. I would like to know what other, more incidental infl=
uences helped in making the text come about - perhaps activities from this =
list even. I remember at the time, lots of sites were going through the mot=
ions of 'acting out' art, net art whilst using Flash. Yet among the Flash u=
sers there were also legitimate makers of net art who were declaring their =
intentions creatively whilst offering content and potential meaning.

> You mention that I contradict myself by defining my statement against
> flash as being beyond "corporate / anti corporate." But let's face it,
> everything is beyond corporate / anti-corporate! 98% of the world can be=

> turned into a sneaker advertisement; I mean really.

Yeah, it does my head in when there is a piece of music which I once felt w=
as important to me emotionally, then I hear it as a soundtrack on televisio=
n advertising for some shite car. This kind of emotional manipulation is cy=
nical and I do not see it ever coming to an end, unless the world ends that=
is. Of course there are those who do not mind having their history reconte=
xtualized via assimilation and simulation. I believe that it is time for pe=
ople to reclaim back what they feel has meaning - not just in an art contex=
t but for survival and to somehow bring back meaning. Give us back our soul=

I distrust images,
> but at this stage in human history I'm even starting to distrust
> surfaces. Flash is an advertisement tool developed to deliver
> advertisements and promotional materials over the web.

I understand your distrust of surfaces and moving (potentially) towards see=
ing the intention behind such surfaces. In a sense you could be referring t=
o the 'shadow', that ever hidden depth that the world generally denies touc=
hing upon; due to a lack of self questioning, which could also be very much=
an issue in net art as well - everywhere in fact. Bush is a good example o=
f this, in respect of how simple minded he his, yet backed by clever, greed=
y shadows from behind.

I remember as a kid watching 'The Man With the X-Ray Eyes', it had a tremen=
dous effect on me psychologically, I am that man.

Diane Fairfax: Dr. Xavier, I've read your report...

Xavier: Yes, but do you understand it? Have you any idea what I'm trying to=
accomplish here? I'm developing a way to sensitize the human eye so that i=
t sees radiation up to and including the gamma rays....

So Xavier's quest is to break out of the narrow spectral band that forms th=
e current visual reality and expand his consciousness to the atomic limits =
of light. The first half of the movie shows his conflict with the hospital =
and contains the tacky drama and crude humor that relegates Corman's work t=
o the youth market and the late-night substance abuse crowd, best represent=
ed in 'X' by the party scene (Xavier, wired on his eye-compound, sees the i=
nterns dancing naked). When he accidentally kills a colleague by knocking h=
im through an upper-story window during a dispute, the real film begins.

"If the man was real, he wouldn't be here"

Diane: What do you see?

X: The city... as if it were unborn, rising into the sky with fingers of me=
tal... limbs without flesh, girders without stone... signs hanging without =
supports, wires dipping and swaying without poles... the city unborn, flesh=
dissolved in an acid of light... a City of the Dead.

What is interesting is that others can feel the effect of one's various sha=
dows, because they are externalized in many ways but are not seen by anyone=
that clearly. This can cause immense confusion for all involved. Shadows o=
f the self are not negative space but the make up of who we really are, thi=
s could be misconstrude as negative space. This is assumption is not accura=
te, for there is nothing more solid than the shadow within.

I just think that
> artists are limiting themselves by choosing to work with a program that=

> is designed to create advertising. This is not true of all flash art;
> and my rules aren't for people who are comfortable with their own
> medium. If you are happy doing flash, great! But why are you looking at=

> the six rules, you know? Flash is automatically going to apply the rules=

> of other mediums, such as film and animation, to your work. It's not a
> medium that is exclusive to the web.
> Concerning my commitment to ascii, I'm not sure if you've read "Zen and=

> the Art of ASCII", which is linked under "texts" at
>; but some of the same ideas were being
> formulated in that article which I wrote almost four years ago. The flip=

> side to what you wrote, though, is that it does not shift the focus of
> image to word. What I like about ASCII art is that it decimates the
> concept of the word and the image at the same time. It uses fragments of=

> written communication- "MHHM$$". There are usually no words involved,
> just these broken bits and pieces of language, and there are only the
> evocations of images.

kool ;-)

> As it relates the six rules; ASCII was something I have used before in a=

> lot of projects, but by looking at work through the lens of 6R
> Compliance I was able to see it as something that has a massive amount
> of potential. It's extremely modern, besides the technology but also to,=

> as you pointed out beautifully, a distrust of signifiers, the break up
> of meaning. I never really like representation. People have recently
> remarked that it was shocking to see people apply the idea of Pop, the
> Post Modern, and really probe it, really use it as if it there was
> something beyond prettiness in the world and something more like beauty.=

> I think as someone who grew up in the post-pop, post modern world, there=

> is a level to meaning superimposed over the prettiness of things, that
> constantly claims it is not there. In Zen + Ascii I call it by zen
> terms, satori, literally nothing, emptiness, "whatever." As part of a
> generation that grew up after the "death of meaning" I want to explore
> that kind of emptiness in order to find something really meaningful in it.

I think that you have found an imaginative and fluid framework in creating =
net art - no question at all in relation to that. It works.

> I always preferred photography because it was a straightforward
> documentary, until someone told me that you could look around and see
> pretty things if you wanted to, and that painting not only showed you
> pretty things but also how the artist saw them. So I guess ASCII is my
> way of seeing it. Images hovering on the border of meaning; language
> breaking up into nothing but still something.

> Does this mean that the six rules were a battle cry for everyone to
> start making ascii art? God, no. I'm just thinking there's plenty of
> room that is left to be explored in html, and if you really want a bold=

> style you can still find one. That doesn't mean that the substance of
> your work is instantly going to be impressive, or that what you are
> saying is interesting. Like McElroy saying that he's bored of ascii, I
> think this is the major philosophy that is ruining for everyone,=

> this idea that style supersedes content. I don't want to be mistaken for=

> one of those people. The six rules weren't a cure all prescription, they=

> were written to address the issue of aesthetics only. The ascii World
> Trade Center and the ascii Nudes and the ascii Hearts are all ascii but=

> they're all extremely different pieces linked by a common style. It's my=

> style; maybe you don't like that I am applying it to hearts right now
> but maybe you like the nudes but you're indifferent to the world trade
> center piece. The idea of art is just as much what you show people as it=

> is how you show it; this is not going to change, whether you are using
> ascii or flash or pasta glued to cardboard. All of it is capable of
> producing great art; none of it produces great art instantly; and now
> that the heroic exploration phase of is over- now that we know
> our language- we can start thinking about what we're going to say. That=

> would be the one rule for the 6RC New Testament that supersedes all six.=

> Say something!

Thanx Eryk - I'm all worn out now...
marc :-)

> marc.garrett wrote:
> > Eryk's Salvaggio 'Six Rules Towards A New Internet Art'- Reconsidered
> >
> >
> > "Image is nothing. Thirst is everything. Obey your thirst." - Sprite
> > Soft Drink Advertisement.
> >
> >
> > 'I think Net Art will be more interesting and challenging when
> > artists/creators begin to get used to defying the medium itself. As in=

> > not doing what one is supposed to do in accordance to the medium's
> > demands. This of course will take time because a plateau has not yet
> > been reached by any stretch of the imagination. Once the distraction
> > of [medium] wars are left behind; in respect of whether one should use=

> > Flash or ASCII, or any other form of computer technology function.
> > Then the sky really is the limit'.
> >
> > Eryk's Salvaggio rules, I believe are a personal idea and not a
> > manifesto and Eyrk seems to have an agenda behind his 'Six Rules
> > Towards A New Internet Art' that has not yet been coherently declared.=

> > His take sits well next to Baudrillard's conception that in late
> > capitalist consumer society there has been a shift in which images and=

> > signs have increasingly become commodities. Even though in his text he=

> > places a disclaimer contradicting this 'This has nothing to do with
> > corporate/anti-corporate; and should not be mistaken as the most
> > radical rule'. Yet when looking at Salvaggio's work, he does on the
> > whole tend to try to eradicate references to image, his recent works
> > are an accumulation of texts forming a larger image, thus still
> > showing his distrust of images and their possible connotations.
> >
> > After Sept 11th, one thing we can be sure about is, that we [the
> > world] were submitted repeated images of the terrorist attack and we
> > did not believe it was happening. The broadcasting of the incident
> > served more to desensitize the world from the realness of what
> > actually happened. Of course, the viewing of a mass of people, another=

> > culture's pain is nothing new, but in reflection America is not in the=

> > habit of being the victim itself. In reflection, it seems that the
> > only resource that America had when displaying its national sense
> > grief was via its own terrestrial media, yet the rest of the world was=

> > tired of seeing the images repeated over and over again. It was like
> > watching another American blockbuster, people could not quite believe=

> > their own eyes. And who could blame them? Infotainment is America's
> > greatest asset, and its allegiance to corporate domination over its
> > people's lives is paramount. Because we are all used to viewing
> > advertisements repeatedly, propaganda imposed upon our tired eyes non=

> > stop above social interest. The inherent isolation that mediation
> > gives, caused confusion and a recognition of a spiritual vacuum in
> > America, as well as everywhere else in the Western dominated zones.
> >
> > Eryk's piece September 11th, 2001 <>
> > consisted of motion footage of United Airlines Flight 175 striking the=

> > South Tower of the World Trade Center. Declared his distrust of
> > televised images 'When I started seeing images of people leaping from=

> > the towers in magazines and newspapers, it left me feeling like we had=

> > missed the real essence of what had happened, that these lives had
> > become images, tape loops, and symbols'.
> >
> > So the image had finally been fully realized in the ultimate sense, it=

> > offered no recourse or definition or communication, when the news
> > channels tried to put across the feeling of death and pain. America
> > was eaten by its own myth making, the media had finally ate itself.
> > Part of the issue is that denial seems such an intrinsic part of
> > America's psyche. As a modern nation movies and advertisements are
> > part of its own history, even when films are made as a historical
> > reference to its own culture and world events that actually happened.=

> > Events have been altered, changed so things are much more palatable
> > for the consumer. There are no factual references to real-life
> > situations that the viewer can rely on and trust anymore. A truly
> > mediated culture that has been traveling in Hyper - Reality. It seems=

> > real but is not quite real. A consumer culture is a mediated culture,=

> > defined by culturalized existence - via information via external
> > sources. Infotainment is a product and it constantly produces
> > misinformation for commercial gain. Therefore realism is not of
> > interest, yet that is where many truth's and hard facts do rest, even=

> > if it is balancing on a knife edge.
> >
> > 'WWII seems to have been the last "real" war. Hyperreal war began in
> > Vietnam, with the involvement of television, and recently reached full=

> > obscene revelation in the "Gulf War" of 1991. Hyperreal war is no
> > longer "economic", no longer "the health of the state". The Ritual
> > Brawl is voluntary and hon-hierarchic (war chiefs are always
> > temporary); real war is compulsory and hierarchic; hyperreal war is
> > imagistic and psychologically interiorized ("Pure War"). In the first=

> > the body is risked; in the second, the body is sacrificed; in the
> > third, the body has disappeared'. Hakim Bey.
> >
> > We all know how popular Flash was during the (so called) dot com
> > revolution in displaying corporate web sites, terrestrial advertising=

> > and of course, many films. Flash use has come a long way since the
> > corporate 'show off' days - when one used to visit business sites and=

> > flash noise/visuals exploding before your eyes with a funky beat,
> > imposing a maelstrom of nonsense graphics. Now, artists who use flash=

> > themselves are pushing things by using the medium for their own terms.=

> > What I find interesting, or contradictory to the shortly experienced,=

> > net art tradition; a good lesson for all to learn. Is that many Flash=

> > artists are managing to declare human emotion in their work
> > successfully. An emotional visceralness communicating to a larger
> > audience outside the traditional [in house] art-speak.
> >
> > Eryk Salvaggio's distrust for the generalized image and its potential=

> > hypereality and blanketing effect on art are worth acknowledging. But=

> > first, one must consider the 'word' and its own role historically and=

> > its function in the 'misinformation age'. Text is seen as the more
> > intellectual form of communicatory functions. And ownership of the
> > written word has of course been an issue for many years. If one was to=

> > immediately accept an idea, without first considering one's own
> > 'embodied' grounded beliefs. Then jumping onto someone else's
> > conceptualized notion would and can only be considered as
> > bandwagoning. Text has been the more traditional cannon for archiving=

> > information, issuing news and of course, rules. Text tells lies just
> > as much as images. altering subconscience, perceptions and socially
> > constructed craniums. Images traditionally have been more to do with
> > symbols and metaphors, signifiers.
> >
> > 'didacticism often plays fast and loose with the truth'. N.Chomsky.
> >
> >
> > If an institution claims an idea, then removes the author who
> > originated its idea, then that institution can claim leverage by using=

> > that idea; thus gain control and pushing its originator aside. M.Garret=
> >
> > The selection process of what is seen and read, declares who is
> > judging what is allowed to be read and seen, a problem that is
> > timeless. Whoever controls language controls us, and language comes in=

> > many forms. It can come in the form of a critical text supported by an=

> > institution and promoted by the media because it latches onto their
> > own assumptions at that time. Or it can be promoted using terrestrial=

> > outlets where people who are not less to read due to de-education, are=

> > more reliant on visual information. So text or the use of an image can=

> > both be a lie, or messenger of mythologies. What really matters is the=

> > source, where the information has come from and why. The itemizing of=

> > Flash as inferior to other forms of creative functions, does not take=

> > into account the context of an artists' own personal reasons and
> > purpose for using such a medium.
> >
> >
> > I am sure Eryk himself would love it if someone offered an equivalent=

> > example, contrary to his notion. An alternative set of rules. The
> > positive thing that has come about out of this, is that people are
> > asked why are they using the medium? Once the individual concerned has=

> > conceptually and intuitively reevaluated the use of a medium of
> > whether it is appropriate in reference to their idea(s). A more
> > truthful outcome can be realized, in why they are using their chosen
> > medium. Let's face it, we are all using a corporate medium - its
> > called a computer.
> >
> > Making art on the net is a craft, it still involves transmuting a
> > concept. And the last thing we all want (I hope) is to get trapped in=

> > isolating artists. If that happens, then we might as well become
> > modernists, and start arguing and putting up fences, using
> > Greenbergian terms (which is a 20th century issue) defining the good
> > from the bad. When you define or create rules you create borders,
> > fences that people feel hesitant to cross because they feel victimized=

> > for doing so. This creates a virtual 'art school' comparison that as
> > far as I am concerned should be questioned. Inside, outside, bad,
> > good; is not the best way for artists when they should be given the
> > chance to explore any medium they choose for their own reasons. By
> > adhering to the process of determining what medium one should use, one=

> > creates a 'policed' aesthetic which is qualitative. Aesthetic value is=

> > ultimately created by taste. The cultivation of taste usually occurs
> > via culturalization, "cultivated" taste. Rules are good to break and I=

> > suggest breaking the rules.
> >
> > Eryk says 'Boundaries are what inspired the "heroic period" of early
> > boundaries such as bandwidth, browser design limits, etc.
> > Ironically; as bandwidth has expanded and browers more flexible, we
> > have also seen a homoginization of A design aesthetic
> > prevails; as we see slicker and slicker "art" sites with no message or=

> > point or content'. I would have to disagree here, for now we are
> > witnessing new artists exploring emotion/ideas that do declare real
> > content and message such as Jess Loseby. And actually does go further=

> > than a lot of 'cyber art', implying that if the artist is good enough=

> > the communication and meaning goes beyond the medium itself. So
> > perhaps Eryk's excellent and thought provoking manifesto needs to be
> > updated.
> >
> > marc garrett
> >
> >
> >
> >
> + vs. every art school ever...
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Re: Re:I have a theory =

Hi Judson,

Punk dino's - soundz intriguing.

> >dinos might've had large tufts of shaggy red hair on the tops of their s=
> I don't know what kind of distribution Dr. Seuss gets in the UK. But
> apparently that was not a crucial part of Marc's childhood.

Imagination is my reality...

> Marc, I stand behind your theory 200%. (In the middle though, so you
> can't see me on the big screen, not at either end where I'll be
> exposed.)

I am getting the impression that the dinosaurs I am referring to may be pos=
sess a middle gawe spread, that extra lump of fat in the middle, love handl=
es some people like to call them.
> Further(field) evidence is that the Loch Ness monster may also be a
> left-over dinosaur. That living in Scotland, it must have a very
> poor diet. You've seen those old ladies with thin necks and ankles
> and are big and fat in the middle. There's a connection in there
> somewhere.

It is an issue that the Loch Ness Monster has eaten much of the fish from t=
he lake, although it has survived so far on straying tourists, mostly the o=
ne's that have fallen into the water. Also the locals keep it alive by feed=
ing it haggis, a local diet. A haggis is a small animal native to Scotland.=
Well when I say animal, actually it's a bird with vestigial wings - like t=
he ostrich. Because the habitat of the haggis is exclusively mountainous, i=
t is always found on the sides of Scottish mountains, it has evolved a rath=
er strange gait. The poor thing has only three legs, and each leg is a diff=
erent length - the result of this is that when hunting haggis, you must get=
them on to a flat plain - then they are very easy to catch - they can only=
run round in circles.
After catching your haggis, and dispatching it in time honoured fashion, it=
is cooked in boiling water for a period of time, then served with tatties =
and neeps (and before you ask, that's potatoes and turnips).

The haggis is considered a great delicacy in Scotland, and as many of your =
compatriots will tell you, it tastes great - many visitors from the US have=
been known to ask for second helpings of haggis!

The noise that haggis makes during the mating season gave rise to that othe=
r great Scottish invention, the bagpipes.

Many other countries have tried to establish breeding colonies of haggis, b=
ut to no avail - it's something about the air and water in Scotland, which =
once the haggis is removed from that environment, they just pine away.

A little known fact about the haggis is its aquatic ability, scottish local=
s have seen small groups of haggis swimming in Loch Ness.

> judson
> ps. I now realize that "Pet" is a surname and "Name" is your family
> name and am appropriately impressed. "Appropriate" in that I am
> exactly as impressed as might be expected in such a case. Please
> choose a pseudonym like "Hank" or "Norbert" that wee can pretend to
> call you.
> On second thought, don't. I will just call you "Hank or Norbert".
> >Already my theory is being questioned.
> >
> >I have it on good authority that Dinosaur hair was very short, due to the
> >intense humid conditions. Also most dinosaurs were reptilian - didn't you
> >see Jurassic Park?
> >
> >So my theory all dinosaurs were thin at one end - fat in the middle - And
> >then thin at the other end. Still stands, unless proved otherwise.
> >
> >I would also like to mention, while we are still on the subject that the=
> >are many dinosaurs still alive, but are they friends of film stars. You
> >cannot see them on the screen because they hiding behind a car, or a
> >building on the set. Again, this is my theory and I am sticking to it.
> >
> >Unless of course someone else proves otherwise...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > on 8/11/02 6:35 PM, marc.garrett ecrit=
> > >
> > > > I have a theory =
> > > >
> > > > That all dinasours were thin at one end - fat in the middle - And =
> >thin
> > > > at the other end.
> > > >
> > > > This is my theory and I am sticking to it.
> > > >
> > > > Unless of course someone else proves otherwise...
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you considering the possiblebility that dinos might've had large=
> > > of shaggy red hair on the tops of their skulls making them "appear" =
> >have
> > > big heads?
> > >
> > >
> > > Lotta learna,
> > > -muserna
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >+ distance equals rate times time
> >-> post:
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> >-> subscribe/unsubscribe:
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> >+
> >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >Membership Agreement available online at
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 223 E 10th Street
> PMB 130
> New York, NY 10003


Re: Re:I have a theory =

Haggis are by nature very playful creatures, and when swimming, very often
swim in a group - a bit like ducks - where the mother will swim ahead, and
the youngsters follow in a line abreast. This is a very interesting
phenomenon to watch, as it looks something like this :


/ /

/ /

/- /- /- /- / /

The long neck of the mother keeping a watchful eye for predators.

This does however confuse some people, who, not knowing about the haggis,
can confuse it with the other great indigenous Scottish inhabitant, the Loch
Ness Monster, or Nessie as she's affectionately known, who looks more like
this :


/ /

/ /

/- /- /- /- / /

From a distance, I'm sure you'll agree, the tourist can easily mistake a
family of haggis out for their daily swim, as Nessie, this of course gives
rise to many more false sightings, but is inherently very good for the
tourist industry in Scotland.

The largest known recorded haggis (caught in 1893 by a crofter at the base
of Ben Lomond), weighed 25 tons.

In the water, haggis have been known to reach speeds of up to 35 knots, and
therfore coupled with their amazing agility in this environment, are
extremely difficult to catch, however, if the hunter can predict where the
haggis will land, a good tip is to wait in hiding on the shore, beacuse when
they come out of the water, they will inevitably run round in circles to dry
themselves off.