marc garrett
Since the beginning
Works in London United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

PORTFOLIO (7)
BIO
Net artist, media artist, curator, writer, street artist, activist, educationalist and musician. Emerging in the late 80's from the streets exploring creativity via agit-art tactics. Using unofficial, experimental platforms such as the streets, pirate radio such as the locally popular 'Savage Yet Tender' alternative broadcasting 1980's group, net broadcasts, BBS systems, performance, intervention, events, pamphlets, warehouses and gallery spaces. In the early nineties, was co-sysop (systems operator) for a while with Heath Bunting on Cybercafe BBS, dedicated to arts, technology and hacking.

Co-director and co-founder, with artist Ruth Catlow of the net arts collectives and communities- furtherfield.org, furthernoise.org, netbehaviour.org, also cofounder and co-curator/director of the gallery space called HTTP Gallery in London, UK. Currently involved in co-running, collaborating with many others on Node.London. Also co-curating various contemporary Media Arts exhibitions, nationally and Internationally such as Game/play a touring exhibiton.
Discussions (1671) Opportunities (12) Events (175) Jobs (2)
DISCUSSION

The furtherfield team


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BlankFurtherGang
The furtherfield team

http://new.furtherfield.org/fgang/index.htm

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<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#333333 size=4>FurtherGang</FONT></STRONG><SPA=
N
class=fprojects><FONT
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face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#333333 size=4>The furtherf=
ield team
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DISCUSSION

Re: Liminality


Hello Manik,

Shucks is the order of the day...

I saw your project on free manifesto - looked good. Even though there are
language differences between indivuals on the list, I am sure that generally
everyone will try to understand more because of this fact - cleverness is a
distraction/understanding takes time...

much respect from marc

> Dear Marc,I'm going to use this oportunity to say something to all
> "chat"rhizomers.It was nice to spend some time with you.
> We can made endless diskusion about ewerything,but what's the point?I'm
> 45.obwisly all the athers are younger.My agly&agresive behiwe/stile was
with
> purpose.So,Max if you want to became genius,pretend that you are.And you
> will be one day(S.Daly).Natalie,you are wery sensitive.Hardest for me was
to
> hurt you.Joseph,off course:you are Popaye The Sailer,also&same time you
are
> Oliva,whatewer you want to bee.Your hart is full of love and thats most
> important.Curt,Plumber is caracter from Peter Weir early film(I dont
> remember name,but it's from his Australian period),thank's for your few
> words.
> Marc,I'm waiting for my translater to see what's exectly in your
> message.Anyway,instead diferent point of wiew, I like you all.
> Thank you for Oscar.(Tiers,he look et phalusoid phigure,speachless,dan
> ewerybady stay on legs.Big aplaus.Tiers in public.)
> DEAD END=RISING HOPE
> MANIK
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "furtherfield" <info@furtherfield.org>
> To: "manik" <manik@ptt.yu>; <list@rhizome.org>
> Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 1:48 PM
> Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Liminality
>
>
> > Phirst for mann kind is to realized to
> > contemplate esential issues how to becam human been."
> >
> > I agree...
> >
> > marc
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > + working?????????
> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php3
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

DISCUSSION

[Marc Garrett's Writings]


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Blank[Marc Garrett's Writings]

Featuring

Sleazy Art meetings
Stories
Critical Text
Poems/Prose

A chance for you all to see various text antics by

Marc Garret all in one place. It will infuriate you,
make you laugh, make you think, cry, smile & wonder.

http://www.furtherfield.org/mgarrett/mgw/index.htm

Marc Garrett is an Internet artist, writer, street artist, activist, curato=
r, educationalist and musician. In a constant state of being renascent. He =
share's no allegiance to any one form of art or expression. 'For me, art, o=
r rather creativity, is an intuitive strategy that involves learning, quest=
ioning, progressive thought and putting playful explorations into action'.

Emerging in the late 80's from the streets exploring creativity via agit-ar=
t tactics, Marc declares his own and humanity's seemingly perpetual dysfunc=
tion. Consciously using unofficial platforms such as the streets, pirate ra=
dio, net broadcasts, BBS systems, performance, intervention, events, pamphl=
ets, warehouses and gallery spaces. In the early nineties he was co-sysop w=
ith Heath Bunting for Cybercafe BBS.

Marc Garrett is CO-director and cofounder, along with artist Ruth Catlow, o=
f the net arts collective furtherfield.org & furthernoise.org. And has emba=
rked on many projects involving various communities internationally and loc=
ally. Also more recently has been Making waves with the Internet based elec=
tro-punk band 'Ouch! Those monkeys'.

'Exploring the processes of being creative via constant reevaluation of ide=
as & intentions, I use myself as the medium, I am the tool...'

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2"><BASE
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MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 25px; COLOR: #000000; FONT=
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background=cid:00e601c23b10$263ca7a0$0100a8c0@FURTHERFIELD>
<P align=center><FONT class=unnamed4 face="Courier New, Courier, mono=
"
color=#000000 size=1><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face="Courier New, C=
ourier, mono"
color=#000000 size=2><STRONG><FONT size=3><U>[Marc Garrett's
Writings]<BR><BR></U>Featuring<BR></FONT></STRONG><BR><STRONG><U>Sleazy Art=

meetings<BR></U></STRONG></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT class=unnamed4
face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color=#000000 size=1><FONT color==
#0000ff><FONT
class=unnamed4 face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color=#000000
size=2><STRONG><U>Stories<BR></U></STRONG></FONT><FONT class=unnamed4=

face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color=#000000 size=2><STRONG><U>Cri=
tical
Text<BR></U></STRONG></FONT><FONT class=unnamed4
face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color=#000000
size=2><STRONG><U>Poems/Prose<BR><BR></U>A chance for you all to see vari=
ous
text antics by </STRONG></FONT></P>
<DIV align=center><FONT class=unnamed4 face="Courier New, Courier, mo=
no"
color=#000000 size=2><STRONG>Marc Garret all in one place. It will infu=
riate
</STRONG></FONT><FONT class=unnamed4 face="Courier New, Courier, mono"=

color=#000000 size=2><STRONG>you, </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT class=unnamed4 face="Courier New, Courier, mo=
no"
color=#000000 size=2><STRONG>make you laugh, make you think, cry, smile=

&amp;&nbsp;wonder.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><STRONG><FONT color=#000000
size=2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=center></FONT></FONT><FONT class=unnamed4
face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color=#000000><FONT color=#0000ff><=
A
href="http://www.furtherfield.org/mgarrett/mgw/index.htm">http://www.furt=
herfield.org/mgarrett/mgw/index.htm</A></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT class=unnamed4 face="Courier New, Courier, mo=
no"
color=#000000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT class=unnamed4 face="Courier New, Courier, mo=
no"
color=#000000><FONT size=1>Marc Garrett is an Internet artist, writer, =
street
artist, activist, curator, educationalist and musician. In a constant state=
of
being renascent. He share's no allegiance to any one form of art or express=
ion.
'For me, art, or rather creativity, is an intuitive strategy that involves=

learning, questioning, progressive thought and putting playful explorations=
into
action'.<BR><BR>Emerging in the late 80's from the streets exploring creati=
vity
via agit-art tactics, Marc declares his own and humanity's seemingly perpet=
ual
dysfunction. Consciously using unofficial platforms such as the streets, pi=
rate
radio, net broadcasts, BBS systems, performance, intervention, events,
pamphlets, warehouses and gallery spaces. In the early nineties he was co-s=
ysop
with Heath Bunting for Cybercafe BBS.<BR><BR>Marc Garrett is CO-director an=
d
cofounder, along with artist Ruth Catlow, of the net arts collective
furtherfield.org &amp; furthernoise.org. And has embarked on many projects=

involving various communities internationally and locally. </FONT><FONT
face="Courier New, Courier, mono"><FONT size=1><FONT color=#000000>Al=
so more
recently has been Making waves with the Internet based electro-punk band 'O=
uch!
Those monkeys'.</FONT> </FONT><SPAN class=unnamed2><BR><BR></SPAN><FONT=

size=1>'Exploring the processes of being creative via constant reevaluati=
on of
ideas &amp; intentions, I use myself as the medium, I am the
tool...'</FONT></FONT><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, mono" size=2> <=
/FONT><A
class=unnamed4
href="file:///C:/Program%20Files/Common%20Files/Microsoft%20Shared/Statio=
nery/docs/critical_texts.htm"></A></FONT></DIV>
<P>&nbsp;</P></BODY></HTML>

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DISCUSSION

Compassion


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BlankHi Nikola,

I know that you don't want to hurt yourself by getting distracted by poilit=
cal issues.

He has more of a right to post on this list, than we have the right to igno=
re the killing of many civilian lives. Why are you not interested in accept=
ing people's unhappy situations, what is wrong with acknowledging the damag=
e that is being imposed on civilians lives via corporate & governmental opp=
ression? Why shouldn't he post a compassionate plea on the list? I believe =
that life is more important than comfort, more important than art.

Everyone has experienced pain in some form or other, via someone else's col=
d-hearted decision to actively cause pain. It is important that people are =
aware of what is happening around the world, for what happens out there, ou=
tside one's own nation/border - occrances/situations effect us all in many =
ways. In respect of what you term as 'putting all the blame on a far away e=
nemy', well, if that far away enemy is killing your families, friends and l=
ivelihood. What are going to do, accept it? I

But there is nothing wrong with feeling compassion for other people, & help=
ing them in what ever way you can, no matter how small. For instance that i=
ndividual who posted that email did it out of desperation, confusion about =
a world that does not look after its own people's.

Why are you posting this on an US based net.art community mailing
> list? So you get few people to tell you "oh god, that is horrible" and th=
en
> forget about it after 5 seconds.

I would of thought this would be a perfect place to mail such an email, as =
far as he/she is concerned. I will not forget - because I actually care abo=
ut humanity, and I am actively contributing in my own way to trying to make=
it a better place, contrary to the grunts who are far to keen to kill.

> If you want the war to stop I suggest you turn the other cheek cause only=

> fuel for your war is your own hate and pride, and you have no right to pu=
t
> all the blame on a far away demon.

So your suggestion to this desperate individual who is being victimized by =
a super power is to turn the other cheek, your advice is wrong. It lacks in=
tuitive understanding of humanity & lacks empathy.
Every culture, every society, every country, every family has problems that=
are violent, yet many people do not appreciate; that there are real troubl=
es happening globally that will influence their lives whether they want it =
to or not, imposing massive changes on communities, causing mass imigration=
of the likes that we have never seen before. If artists hide away in denia=
l, not wanting to face their own demons, fear of questioning why their own =
country/religion is hurting another, then we will continue to fall further =
into 'global collapse'.

Esso has done more than any other company to undermine the Kyoto Protocol, =
the only international treaty to stop global warming. In fact, it's largely=
because of Esso that President Bush has washed his hands of the treaty. Th=
e USA is responsible for a staggering 25% of all the pollution that causes =
global warming. Exxon was one of the main financial contributors to George =
Bush's election campaign. As soon as George Bush became president, he annou=
nced that the US would pull out of international agreements to stop global =
warming - exactly the position that Exxon was promoting.

Do you think that this is right? If not, what are you going to do about? Be=
cause all this is part of the same thing. It is all connected. It is our re=
sponsibility to look out for other human beings, to see that they are being=
treated fairly. Humanity must learn by its mistakes (some hope).

And I saw Sisyphus too, bound to his own torture,
grappling his monstrous boulder with both arms working,
heaving, hands struggling, legs driving, he kept on
thrusting the rock uphill toward the brink, but just
as it teetered, set to topple over --- time and again
the immense weight of the thing would wheel it back and
the ruthless boulder would bound and tumble down to the plain again ---
so once again he would heave, would struggle to thrust it up,
sweat drenching his body, dust swirling above his head (269).

Marc Garrett

If we all just ignore these issues that are continiously occuring. =

> re = I would be dishonest if I said I didn't hate the American governme=
nt.
> I do hate it, so really, so deeply and, yes, so rightly.
>
> I spent 3 months under the NATO bombers in Belgrade, but I have to say th=
at
> what you are silly.
>
> First: I do not follow the political situation in your part of the world=

> but I do understand that you are putting all the blame on a far away enem=
y
> which you can not touch, which actually makes it easy for you to just
> complain and do nothing positive.
>
> Second: Why are you posting this on an US based net.art community mailing=

> list? So you get few people to tell you "oh god, that is horrible" and th=
en
> forget about it after 5 seconds.
>
> If you want the war to stop I suggest you turn the other cheek cause only=

> fuel for your war is your own hate and pride, and you have no right to pu=
t
> all the blame on a far away demon.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ;
>
> mailto:nikola@tosic.com
> http://www.nekada.com
> http://www.tosic.com
>
> -> Rhizome.org
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php3
>
>

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<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000 size=2><STRONG>Hi Nikola,<BR><BR>=
I know that
you don't want to hurt yourself by getting distracted by poilitcal
issues.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000 size=2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&n=
bsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000 size=2><STRONG>He has more of a r=
ight to
post on this list, than we have the right to ignore the killing of many civ=
ilian
lives. Why are you not interested in&nbsp;accepting people's unhappy situat=
ions,
what is wrong with acknowledging the damage that is being imposed on civili=
ans
lives via corporate &amp; governmental oppression? Why shouldn't he post a=

compassionate plea on the list? I believe that life is more important than=

comfort, more important than art.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000 size=2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&n=
bsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000 size=2><STRONG>Everyone has exper=
ienced pain
in some form or other, via someone else's cold-hearted decision to actively=

cause pain. It is important&nbsp;that people are aware of what is happening=

around the world, for what happens out there, outside&nbsp;one's&nbsp;own=

nation/border - occrances/situations effect&nbsp;us all&nbsp;in many ways. =
In
respect of what you term as 'putting all the blame on a far away enemy', we=
ll,
if that far away enemy is killing your families, friends and livelihood. Wh=
at
are going to do, accept it? I</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#008000 size=2></FONT></STRONG><F=
ONT
face=Arial color=#008000 size=2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT color=#008000><STRONG>But there is=
nothing
wrong with feeling compassion for other people,&nbsp;&amp; helping them in =
what
ever way you can, no matter how small. For instance that individual who pos=
ted
that email did it out of desperation, confusion about a world that does not=
look
after its own people's. </STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Why are you posting this on an US based ne=
t.art
community mailing <BR>&gt; list? So you get few people to tell you "oh god,=
that
is horrible" and then <BR>&gt; forget about it after 5 seconds.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000 size=2><STRONG>I would of thought=

this&nbsp;would&nbsp;be a&nbsp;perfect place to mail such an email, as far =
as
he/she is concerned. I will not forget - because I actually care about huma=
nity,
and I am actively contributing in my own way to trying to make it a better=

place, contrary to the grunts who are far to keen to kill.
</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#008000 size=2></FONT></STRONG>&n=
bsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&gt; If you want the war to stop I suggest=
you turn
the other cheek cause only <BR>&gt; fuel for your war is your own hate and=

pride, and you have no right to put <BR>&gt; all the blame on a far away
demon.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000 size=2><STRONG>So your suggestion=
to this
desperate individual who is being victimized by a super power is to turn th=
e
other cheek, your advice is wrong. It lacks intuitive understanding of huma=
nity
&amp; lacks empathy.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000 size=2><STRONG>Every culture, eve=
ry society,
every country, every family has problems that are violent,&nbsp;yet many pe=
ople
do not appreciate; that there are real troubles&nbsp;happening globally tha=
t
will influence their lives whether they want it to or not, imposing massive=

changes on communities, causing mass imigration of the likes that we have n=
ever
seen before. If artists hide away in denial, not wanting to face their own=

demons, fear of questioning why&nbsp;their own country/religion is hurting=

another, then we will continue to fall further into 'global collapse'.
<BR><BR>Esso has done more than any other company to undermine the Kyoto
Protocol, the only international treaty to stop global warming. In fact, it=
's
largely because of Esso that President Bush has washed his hands of the tre=
aty.
The USA is responsible for a staggering 25% of all the pollution that cause=
s
global warming.&nbsp;Exxon was one of the main financial contributors to Ge=
orge
Bush's election campaign. As soon as George Bush became president, he annou=
nced
that the US would pull out of international agreements to stop global warmi=
ng -
exactly the position that Exxon was promoting.<BR><BR>Do you think that thi=
s is
right? If not, what are you going to do about? Because all this is part of =
the
same thing. It is all connected. It is our responsibility to look out for o=
ther
human beings, to see that they are being treated fairly. Humanity must lear=
n by
its mistakes (some hope).<BR></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG><FONT size=2>And I saw Sisyphus too, boun=
d to his
own torture,<BR>grappling his monstrous boulder with both arms
working,<BR>heaving, hands struggling, legs driving, he kept on <BR>thrusti=
ng
the rock uphill toward the brink, but just <BR>as it teetered, set to toppl=
e
over --- time and again<BR>the immense weight of the thing would wheel it b=
ack
and <BR>the ruthless boulder would bound and tumble down to the plain again=

---<BR>so once again he would heave, would struggle to thrust it up,<BR>swe=
at
drenching his body, dust swirling above his head (269).</FONT>
</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial color=#008000 size=2></FONT></STRONG>&n=
bsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#008000 size=2><STRONG>Marc
Garrett</STRONG><BR></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If we all just ignore these issues that ar=
e
continiously occuring. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=
=Arial
size=2>&gt; re = I would be dishonest if I said I didn't hate the Ameri=
can
government. <BR>&gt; I do hate it, so really, so deeply and, yes, so
rightly.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I spent 3 months under the NATO bombers in Belgra=
de,
but I have to say that <BR>&gt; what you are silly.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; First:=
I do
not follow the political situation in your part of the world <BR>&gt; but I=
do
understand that you are putting all the blame on a far away enemy <BR>&gt; =
which
you can not touch, which actually makes it easy for you to just <BR>&gt;
complain and do nothing positive.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Second: Why are you post=
ing
this on an US based net.art community mailing <BR>&gt; list? So you get few=

people to tell you "oh god, that is horrible" and then <BR>&gt; forget abou=
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------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C23A25.D6C01A30--

DISCUSSION

Re: grassroots


Hi Terrence,

Good to hear from you (or see your text).
Those ol' throbber kittens. My most favorite song of theirs is...

Something came over me...but I don't know what it was :-)

marc

>
> Terrence writes;
>
> I remember listening to throbbing gristle when i was at art school in
1985,,
> that was 4 years after the band split and to think this was on a cbc radio
> show called brave new waves.
>
> http://userpages.umbc.edu/~vijay/tg/intro.html
>
> >From: "furtherfield" <info@furtherfield.org>
> >Reply-To: "furtherfield" <info@furtherfield.org>
> >To: <list@rhizome.org>
> >Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: grassroots
> >Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 02:50:17 +0100
> >
> >BlankHi Lee,
> >
> >Before I excrete my emotional reasoning on this page below, Welcome to
> >rhizome...
> >
> >
> >A lot of the stations that I have personally worked with and do listen to
a
> >lot of the time, in the UK and Holland; small stations mainly pirate -
> >spend
> >a lot of time promoting local talent, with explorative musicians, poets
and
> >traditional folk, plus dance. Those who are grassroots, and who do not
fit
> >into the contemporary attitude/default, have been thumped by larger
> >corporate groups who have forgotten where they have originally come
from -
> >Communities. Music can change a generation and cause revolutions because
it
> >communicates outside institutional structures. If you get rid of those up
> >and coming groups, who are more than just 'pimp candy', you get a
different
> >generation. One which could be less questioning about world issues and
> >everyday issues.
> >
> >Copyright, is not the real issue here - judge the function not the
> >propaganda. I'm sure that you are aware that the Russians used to call
> >advertising propaganda - still do I hope. Promote the maxim, hide the
> >reality; is the truth behind corporate marketing - just check everyone's
> >accounts. I'm sure you've heard the news, all those poor companies who
are
> >so caring. There is a much bigger issue at hand, and by denying this and
> >deluding ourselves that an action by such corporations is not connected
to
> >suppression, would be foolhardy. Think of all those stations who are
> >promoting art/music that questions such negative & mindless exploitations
> >such as what you termed as 'Global Warming and Global Terror' and of
course
> >this war about oil. It is a political move, wrapped in the guise of
> >economics - the soul of the white man is money; that is understood.
> >Accepted
> >as our God, creativity is merely a tool as far as multinationals are
> >concerned, talent is always a threat - a loose cannon. If it is not put
in
> >its place like everything else that can be bought, then it will be made
> >illegal to create on our own terms, and we will continue to be dumbed
down
> >until we are just apologetic children, scared to think our own thoughts.
> >They are lying, that is reality. If we want to see the truth, we can just
> >open our own eyes - view from our own minds, not someone else's.
> >
> >marc garrett
> >
> >
> >
> > > To play devils advocate.
> > > Are these small business getting permission to play the copywritten
> > > material. Are they selling it or providing the content through a
> > > subscription model?
> > >
> > > Would any of you be cool with a small gallery exhibiting your art
> >without
> > > your permission or knowledge? I know I would have a problem with it.
> > >
> > > If I release a song, I want to know whos playing it. If I deserve
> >royalties
> > > you bet I'm going to try to collect. I will send my lawyers after
anyone
> > > violating my copyright.
> > >
> > > In the big picture I think our planet has some larger issues to tackle
> >like
> > > Global Warming and Global Terror.
> > >
> > > Oh by the way hi everyone.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Lee
> > > ----------
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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