Liza Sabater
Since the beginning
Works in New York, Nebraska United States of America

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DISCUSSION

Re: Net Art documentation


On Thursday, Jul 15, 2004, at 04:50 America/New_York, Daniel Pearce
wrote:
> but I don’t really want to produce a static text documenting my
> research.

If you are documenting net art, have you considered something a la
www.wikipedia.org ?

/ l i z a

DISCUSSION

Come see the movie about Fox News and the war on journalism


Standard email coming at ya!

Hi,

On Sunday evening, July 18th, I'll be getting together with my
neighbors to watch a new documentary film that exposes how Fox News
Channel distorts the news. You should come!

The movie is called "Outfoxed", and this is one of the first times it
will be shown. "Outfoxed" has interviews with seven ex-Fox News
employees who describe how, every day, highly partisan talking points
are drawn up to influence newscasts. It's supposed to be pretty
revealing as to how Fox works.

MoveOn and Common Cause members across the country are planning
hundreds of house parties for Sunday, July 18th. After we watch the
movie, comedian Al Franken and director Robert Greenwald will join us
through a nationwide interactive conference call. It takes place
through the internet, so there are live questions and responses. It's a
really new technology and this is one of its first uses.

Come see this movie and join the conference call! And, of course,
there'll be snacks. Sign up to come at:
http://action.moveon.org/outfoxed/selectmtg.html?zip215&distanceP

Here are the details:
Outfoxed!
Park Slope United Methodist Church - 6th Avenue & 8th Street
BROOKLYN, NY 11215
Sunday, July 18, 04:00 PM

I hope you'll come!

P.S. To see the "Outfoxed" trailer, go to:

http://www.outfoxed.org/

DISCUSSION

Re: RHIZOME DIGEST: 7.09.04 .. Blog vs Board (re: Blogging Survey)


Tina,

Never, EVER did I intend to insult you.
I always ask for ask permission before giving attribution;
especially if it does not involve writers/bloggers.
I did not this time and apologize for the faux pas.

7 years in tech is a long time in internet & technology years
but yes, it's true, it does not make you an old fart.

I sincerely apologize.

Best,
l i z a

On Monday, Jul 12, 2004, at 18:34 America/New_York, Tina La Porta wrote:

> look folks.. i believe i have been somewhat misquoted. first of all i
> said, 'net.art has lost it's way' not we have lost our way. and...
> i don't consider myself an 'old fart' ;)
>
> the discussion intercepted was about the limits of ephemeral media
> practice interfacing with the broader contemporary art world-- ie the
> art market. in otherwords, even mark napier can't support himself, his
> art and his family on an occassional net.art commission-- just like
> the rest of us
>
> how much time does an artist want to spend with their nose pressed
> against the screen vs translating ideas into physical/material work;
> communicating with geographically local communities vs
> dispersed/global presences..
>
> your thoughts on blogs are interesting.. much of it comes down to how
> much time/energy to devote to self promotion?
>
> .. i'm not on raw, if you want to reply.. be direct
>
> tina
>
>
>
> liza sabater <liza@culturekitchen.com> added:
>
>
>> Tina LaPorta the other said to me "As net artists, we've lost out
>> way". It came out of a conversation that net art was supposed to be
>> about decentralization, the rhizome, nomadism and as it is it's
>> become
>> institutionalized. So in effect, the first wave of net artists
>> basically emulated online the very systems they sought to by-pass
>> offline in order to show/disseminate their art. Is this bad? I don't
>> think so because, really, social networking software like wikis and
>> blogs, for example, have exploded in the last 2 years. Rhizome and
>> the
>> first wave of net artists has been around since 1996. Their old farts
>> in web / technology years if you think about it.
>
> twhid replied:
>
> I'm need to comment on this 'net artists lost their way' thing.
>
> I don't see net artists losing their way. There isn't as much of it
> going on, it's not as exciting and new as it was, but to say, "we've
> lost our way" simply makes lots and lots of assumptions about what net
> artists were thinking about in the early days. I for one didn't think
> all that much about rhizomatic structures or nomadism (nomadism?). I
> was more excited about the fact that I, ME, JUST LITTLE OLE ME, had
> access to a mass medium! That was what excited me. Also, most newer net
> art projects use decentralized, networked processes in the make-up of
> the work even if it's being supported by centralized art world
> institutions.
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> total screen
> http://tinalaporta.net/totalscreen/
>
> voyeur_web
> http://tinalaporta.net/voyeurweb/
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DISCUSSION

Re: Blog vs Board (re: Blogging Survey)


last reply of the day before I go to a party where there's going to be
a bunch of ... bloggers.

On Friday, Jul 9, 2004, at 17:28 America/New_York, t.whid wrote:
> Similar blog voices link via their post links, their blogrolls, their
> comment links, their trackbacks, etc. The mechanism of grouping or
> networking therefor is decentralized; if one blog goes down, much like
> the Internet, it doesn't tear down the entire network of blogs in a
> field. We need that desperately in the new media/net art world. If
> Rhizome goes out tomorrow, what becomes of the artbase? the texts? our
> RAW clubhouse? It's gone.
>

I did not even think about this one. This is definitely a thing to
consider.

I am not at liberty to say which piece it is but a certain net art
piece completely disappeared from a major museum here in NYC thanks to
the cluelessness of the sysmins that were migrating the system to a new
server.

Gone.

POOF!

The artist in question was not allowed to keep a copy of it on his site
as per the contract/commission details. TWO YEARS of the work were gone
.... until the other day when, threatened with a lawsuit the hosting
company found a full backup of the work.

PHEW!

This is the tyranny of centralized systems. The "it's mine" mentality
that by just the flick of a switch can do away with two years of net
art just like that.

Similar occurrence with Weblogger dot com. Dave Winer lost all my
sympathy and respect for what he did. He had been running this free
blog system for sometime, not out of the goodness of his heart but
because it served him as a testing ground for Manila's R&D. It seems he
got sticker shock with the server bill or something and guess what :
3000 blogs disappeared from the blogosphere because he had the plug
pulled from the server. His excuse : I gave it to you for free, I can
take it away if I want.

Whether it is tyranny or incompetence, centralized systems are a thing
to think about twice. Why use the net to harbor centralized sites? It
is a virtual, networked world after all.

best,
l i z a

DISCUSSION

Re: Re: Blog vs Board (re: Blogging Survey)


On Thursday, Jul 8, 2004, at 16:51 America/New_York, Jason Van Anden
wrote:
> Let's say that someone had an idea for a website called "artornot.com"
> (apparently not very original idea - domain already taken - I
> checked), to be used as a open forum for new media art criticism and
> discussion. Let's say that this was a really good idea (just). I
> think it would be great if that person was encouraged to come to this
> community with the idea, with the possibility that it would get
> support (developmental, moral, financial, coding, etc...) from other
> members, rather than letting it rot on the vine because of lack of
> personal resources (time, money, faith).

That would mean changing the whole structure of how the (non-profit)
business of Rhizome is run. It's not just about the technology.

/ l i z a