Jim Andrews
Since the beginning
Works in Victoria Canada

Jim Andrews does http://vispo.com . He is a poet-programmer and audio guy. His work explores the new media possibilities of poetry, and seeks to synthesize the poetical with other arts and media.
Discussions (847) Opportunities (2) Events (14) Jobs (0)

Re: Maine Statement on Digital Poetry

You are quite conservative in what you yourself wish to create and call poetry, Brian, and will
not acknowledge as poetry work that doesn't go to school with you in some Ivy League cocktail
party jacket pipe smoking notion of poetry among uboyids. If you're going to be young and
talented, be a little more adventurous and keep your critical manacles away from work that
scares you. I'm tired of your haughty insistence on the supremacy of poemy poems.



Re: Anti-anti-life anti-death life and death.

I've read quite a bit of talk in new media writings about the importance of databases to the
art. But where are the examples of interesting use of databases in art? There are very few such
examples. Database work is the bread and butter work of computing, generally for business, and
the creative use of databases in art is relatively rare.

That, at least, is relatively new concerning ada1852. There are probably some online 'expert
systems' out there which do this sort of thing, that talk you through a database of one sort or
another, but I personally haven't seen an online art bot hooked up to a database before.

And one can see that at least the connection is established, in this piece. For work that
reaches the height of learning and so on, this connection is obviously required: the memory of
the thing, if it is online, would need to be stored in a database on the server(s), at least
initially. Then maybe server + p2p and so on.

What sort of 'evolutionary curve' can we expect of chat bots? They won't be speaking 'with the
voice of a thousand generations' for a while, obviously. We look at human evolution over a
timeline of tens of thousands of years. The chat bot evolutionary timeline wouldn't have that
sort of timeline, but the advances will be incremental, for the most part.

There's the place of particular chat bot in the 'evolutionary curve' of the chat bot technology
and theory, and then there's the place of a particular chat bot in the realm of art. Clearly
they'd be related, but not identical. Some arty chat bots will be derivative technologically but
will explore unprecedented levels of chat bot 'personality' or 'narrative' etc. Others will be
near the front of the curve technologically but dull as dishwater. And all combinations. Maybe
those who devote their life to this sort of thing can be at the front of both (renegade
scientists); the depth of the computing and linguistic theory outstrips what has been done with
it artistically, at this point, but that's a good thing: lots to be 'made human', given a human
touch, made relevant to human affairs, which is part of what net.artists do with new technology
and theory.



Re: Anti-anti-life anti-death life and death.

Yes, I agree that databases are becoming widely used; I was thinking of their use in art chat

I took a half a course in databases. The most interesting material concerned explicit sets and
empty relationships, and it was annoying to be the only one laughing, so I dropped out. Very
database dumb i am but i know there are daddy databases, mommy databases, and baby databases.

I look at them as ways to cross-reference information and query and retrieve data that fulfills
any particular possible cross-referencing given the categories in which the data is categorized.


> i don't know if i would call them rare; use your own judgement as to
> if they are interesting.

> t.whid


Re: Anti-anti-life anti-death life and death.

Interesting posts by both twhid and chris.

I've chatted with Eliza, Racter, and now ada1852, and been amused and even provoked by all
three. Moreso by discussion of the issues they are contextualized within, usually, than the
conversations themselves. All are quite fun to chat with for a little while, but it isn't long
before you have 'read them', it seems. This is not necessarily a criticism; one could say the
same of a book or most any piece of art.

I am not sure about ada1852, but Eliza and Racter do not learn. In other words, though they may
make certain inferences based on the current conversation (ie, they *do* remember parts of the
current conversation, but not after it is over), they do not have any programming that
progressively learns more language, or learns language more deeply over time. They lack a 'world
view' and evolving language amid that world view.

Are you interested in attempting that with ada1852, chris, or is that just too big a can of

Also, you mentioned "Alice" as being an interesting chat bot. What is the URL to it?

I like the utility of ada1852 as a guide to the art base, by the way. Great idea, and amusingly
executed, Chris. ada kinda reminds me of some other online email personalities apparently
willing to discuss art.



URL to the 'text warez' (or something such) project featured a while back on Rhizome?

I'm looking for a URL I'm hoping someone can help me with.

A week or two (or three) ago there was featured on the Rhizome site a link to an interesting
site which features ASCII versions of many excellent texts by prominent writers, a kind of avant
garde 'text warez' project. Does anyone have a link to that?