Eryk Salvaggio
Since the beginning
Works in Ogunquit, Massachusetts United States of America

The Harry Potter of the Digital Avant Garde." - Pieter van Bogaert, of the Belgian Newspaper "TIJD", 09/03/02.

Discussions (384) Opportunities (0) Events (1) Jobs (0)

Thom Yorke / Howard Zinn

A discussion between Thom Yorke of Radiohead and Howard Zinn:

So would you say that there's a place for both directly political and
non-political artists? What importance do you think each have?

Zinn: There are all sorts of artists. There are artists who really don't
have a social consciousness, who don't see that there's a connection between
art and life in a way that compels the artist to look around the world and
see what is wrong and try to use his or her art to change that. There are
artists who just entertain. You can look upon entertainment as something
useful, as we don't want to eliminate art which is only entertaining, and
insist that all art must be political, must be revolutionary, must be

But there's a place for comedy and music and the circus and things that
don't really have an awful effect on society except to entertain people - to
make people feel good, and to act as a kind of religion. That is what Marx
called the "opium of the people," something that people need. They need

So it does serve a purpose, but if that's all that artists do, the
entertainment that you seek will become permanent. The misery that people
live under and the wars that people have to go through, that will become
permanent. There are huge numbers of people in the world whose lives are
bound, limited. Lives of sheer misery, of sickness and violence. In order to
change that you need to have artists who will be conscious of that, who will
use their art in such a way that it helps to transform society. It may not
be a blunt instrument, but it will have a kind of poetic effect.

Yorke: Yeah, I don't think we are political at all, I think I'm hyper aware
of the soapbox thing. It is difficult to make political art work. If all it
does is exist in the realms of political discussion, it's using that
language, and generally, it's an ugly language. It is very dead, definitely
not a thing of beauty. The only reason, I think, that we go anywhere near it
is because, like any reason that we buy music, these things get absorbed.
These are the things surrounding your life. If you sit down and try to do it
purposefully, and try to change this with this, and do this with that, it
never works.


Re: Re: spam threat

Ah. That guy called me an asshole, and while I've come to expect that from
most of my emails to this list, I didn't quite know why.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Wells" <>
To: "Ryan Griffis" <>; <>
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: spam threat

> This guy sounds scary. I would watch out, he sounds like he knows the law
> well at least that he pays attention to the media.
> He doesn't seem to realize that the provision for the right of individuals
> to compensation was cut out of the bill. Only providers and corporations.
> What an idiot.
> on 11/23/03 19:05, Ryan Griffis at wrote:
> > hi everyone,
> > can we stop sending emails to josh, whoever the hell
> > he is? apparently he doesn't like it... nor does it
> > sound like he understands how lists work. for some
> > reason he makes it sound as if my emails are getting
> > through to him more?
> > ryan
> >
> > --- Josh <> wrote:
> >> Well I have tried and tried and its not working. I
> >> have submitted my name to
> >> rhizome to the do no subscribe list and I have
> >> warned this list not to send
> >> me emails. Twice. I am now recording each and every
> >> one of your emails so I
> >> may be compensated for this illegal spam. Under the
> >> new anti-spam laws I am
> >> entitled to money for each one so if you do not want
> >> to pay I suggest you
> >> guys come up with a way to get me off the list. Ryan
> >> are
> >> number one. Who is next? I need some cash.
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> >
> > +
> > -> post:
> > -> questions:
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > -> give:
> > -> visit: on Fridays the web site is open to non-members
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
> >
> +
> -> post:
> -> questions:
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> -> give:
> -> visit: on Fridays the web site is open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at


Re: Rhizome Net Art Commissions-CALL FOR PROPOSALS

Nice! I like this one. Still not going to submit, but it's a huge
improvement over how things were done last time, for numerous reasons.


----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 3:11 PM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Rhizome Net Art Commissions-CALL FOR PROPOSALS

> +Deadline for proposals: February 15, 2004+
> is pleased to announce that with support from The Jerome
> Foundation and the Greenwall Foundation, five new net art projects (works
> of art that are made to be experienced online) will be
> commissioned in 2004.
> The fee for each commission will range from $1,500 - $3,500.
> is an online platform for the global new media art
> community. We are committed to supporting the creation, presentation,
> discussion and preservation of art that engages new technologies in
> significant ways. We emphasize innovation and inclusiveness in all of our
> programs and activities.
> Artists are invited to submit proposals for works of art that focus on
> the theme of games.
> +Games+
> For the last several decades, computer-based games, through their
> ubiquity, economic influence, and innovative use of new technologies,
> have become a significant cultural force, surpassing Hollywood films in
> total revenues.
> For a number of years, new media artists have been exploring the
> possibilities of gaming platforms and creating art games that mix the
> best qualities of commercial games - accessibility, interactivity,
> user-engagement - with critical and progressive approaches to narrative
> and aesthetics.
> Artists seeking a 2004 commission should propose projects that
> will contribute to the art game genre, or reflect in some way on the
> following broad interpretations of "game" found at,
> Viewers/players should be able to access the projects online, whether by
> playing them through a web browser, downloading software, or some other
> use of internet technologies.
> When evaluating proposals, the jury will consider artistic merit,
> technical feasibility, and technical accessibility.
> Although we will provide some technical assistance with final
> integration into the web site, artists are expected to
> develop game-related projects independently and without significant
> technical assistance from Commissioned projects will be
> listed on the main Rhizome Commission page and included in the Rhizome
> ArtBase.
> + How to Submit a Proposal +
> The jury will only consider proposals from members of To sign
> up for Rhizome membership, please visit:
> There are two parts to proposal submission:
> 1. You must create a proposal in the form of a web site that includes
> the following key elements:
> + Project description (500 words maximum) that discusses your project's
> core concept, how you will realize your project and your project's
> feasibility. If you plan to work with assistants, consultants or
> collaborators, their roles and (if possible) names should be included.
> + You are encouraged, but not required, to include a production timeline
> and a project budget, which should include your own fee. If you have other
> funding sources for your project, please indicate this in your budget.
> + Your resume or Curriculum Vitae. For collaborative groups, provide
> either a collective CV or the CV's of all participants.
> + Up to 10 work samples. Note: More is not necessarily better. You
> should include only work samples that are relevant to your proposal. If
> your proposal has nothing to do with photography, don't include images
> from your photography portfolio. Please provide contextualizing
> information (title, date, medium, perhaps a brief description) to help the
> jury understand what they are looking at. The work sample can take any
> form, as long as it is accessible via the web.
> When designing your web-based proposal, please note that the jury will
> have limited time for evaluations, so try to make your site clear and
> concise.
> When your web-based proposal is complete, you are ready for Part Two of
> the proposal process:
> 2. Submit your proposal for a Net Art Commission via an
> online form at We do not
> accept proposals via email, snail mail or other means. Proposals will be
> accepted until 5:00pm EST (that's New York time) on Friday, February 15,
> 2004. The form at
> requires the following
> information:
> + Name of artist or collaborative group + Email address + Place of
> residence (city, state/province, country) + Title of the project (this
> can be tentative) + Brief description of project (50 words maximum) +
> URL of web-based proposal
> + Jury +
> Proposals will be reviewed by a jury consisting of German critic Tilman
> Baumgartel, artist Natalie Bookchin of CalArts, Rachel Greene of
>, Francis Hwang of, and Japanese curator Yukiko
> Shikata. members will also participate in the evaluation and
> awarding process through secure web-based forms.
> Winners will be contacted on or after March 15, 2004. Each winner will
> be asked to sign an agreement with governing the terms of the
> commission.
> + Winners +
> Winners will be announced on March 29, 2004. Commissioned projects must be
> completed by October 1, 2004.
> + Questions +
> If you have any questions about the Net Art Commissions,
> please contact Feisal Ahmad at or 212.219.1288.
> +
> -> post:
> -> questions:
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> -> give:
> -> visit: on Fridays the web site is open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at


Re: RHizome Deserves your support.

----- Original Message -----
From: "t.whid" <>

> Not to be a jerk, but it IS a personal thing. It's not fair to take
> whatever personal problems you've had with Rhizome (and to be fair, if
> what you say is accurate, it sounds like you weren't treated very
> graciously) and assume that everyone has had the same experience.

I said as much.



Re: RHizome Deserves your support.


> If RHizome were an FPO organization, I would support your position. But
> isn't. Like Intelligent Agent, which does try to pay everyone when we
> funding, often gets a little 'thin'.

But you try to pay people; and you don't charge them for submitting to it,
do you? I've refused to participate in any exhibition or show where you had
to pay to be accepted. I think it's offensive to the role of artist and it
is offensive to the work I do. I would do shows for free, that's different.
But I am not even really talking about money.

> I'm going to tone it down a little and try to work out some conflations.
> think that payment and content generation are not necessarily linked.
> if Rhizome were into profit, I'd be livid. However, it isn't.

It seems like people cannot seperate my argument from money. I'm not even
talking about payment, I am talking about someone at Rhizome saying "nice
job" once in a while. The closest that has ever happened so far was when
Mark Tribe asked me not to post to the list using my address
because I might say something offensive.

> If you were under a payment agreement and didn't get it, then you have a
> legit grievance.

I'm not. I'm in a community, and in a community you give and the community
gives back. Let me reiterate that I am not talking about money. If the
community doesn't give back and you keep giving, then yes, you (and I) are

> However, I have a big problem with the feeling that people are intitled to
> 'quid pro quo' of sorts. I helped create content for Rhizome for probably
> five years without paying a dime and I did it GLADLY.

Your Freudian typo hit the nail on the head. :) I did it for probably just
as long without paying a dime. When it came time for me to pay rhizome to
keep doing it, the "gladly" part went out of the equation. Frankly, I think
it's a bit trite to say that it's all about the money, or that people who
don't want to pay the five dollars are assholes. Institutions are not built
so we can serve them, they are built to serve us. Any non profit
organization that essentially asks people to serve it for no reward is not
really _worth_ staying in buisiness. I like rhizome, I am here, but I feel
like this is something that no one has been hearing or getting, and it's
important. It's not about the fucking five dollars, which is a really
annoying straw man. It's about the nuts and bolts and the whole way this org
goes about its buisiness. It is accountable to its community; and I,
speaking for myself only, don't feel any particular warmth. I should really
emphasize that I am speaking of myself personally. Maybe it hasn't occured
with anyone else, maybe I am a special case since I am not socially reliable
or stable. I know some people are put off by the fact that I can praise
someone one week and criticise them the next, and that may have carried over
to my relationship with rhizome. Or maybe they just never noticed. Maybe
it's because of radiation in the atmosphere or any other number of reasons;
but I don't feel like I've been convinced.

> I work for a disabilities foundation which I contribute $500/yr, write for
> their magazine, and I get nothing in return.

I work for the Dean campaign and get "nothing" in return- financially. I
make, mostly, for "nothing". But I feel good doing it. I get
encouraged to do it and I feel like I am doing something important. Rhizome
had managed to, essentially, convince me that the volunteer work I had done
for them was unimportant and irrelevant- and personally, I feel like Mark
Tribe sent me the signal that it was even embarrassing. I am familiar with
the purpose of non profit and volunteer work- they don't survive if they
don't make it worth something. Maybe this will change. It may not be an
issue for the rest of rhizomers, but it was an issue for me.

> I believe that I certainly get something back for my 5 bucks. I am
> that a net art community within which i have many friends gets to continue
> (worth a lot more than a five-spot), the possibility for other artists to
> assisted is continued, and a community continues for net art.

But how are other artists assisted if you aren't?

> By the way, Eryk - how much did you get paid for your Turbulence
> project? I bet it's the same as mine, and does that make you a sucker? I
> personally don't think so.

I wasn't paid for the curational project per se, but I recieved a grant from
them for "American Internet" and felt the curational part would be nice to
do, because they help artists financially, including myself, and because
they made me feel like what I did mattered to them. I got a phone call from
Helen Thorington, I got an email saying thanks for doing it. Rhizome relies
a lot on "exposure" as its draw, but I don't know what that means. I feel
like Rhizome has acted like it was doing me a favor by letting me write for
them. Then it went ahead and asked me to give them money, too.

> I'm just tired for people always asking 'what's in it for me?'

I think the opposite extreme of that is detrimental to peoples well being as
well. I don't know, remember when Jon Ippolitto came out with an essay about
how net.artists should look to keeping thier day jobs as a source of
funding? Remember how all the net.artists went on a hell-bender? I feel like
you're basically advocating the same point. Maybe you agreed with Jon, (I
did, for the most part) but I know a lot of people did not. But in this
context, it's not even the financial issue, it's been a constant stream of
what I feel is disrespect and shrugging off by people in charge. I just
assumed I wasn't the only one, maybe I was and it was all a big
misunderstanding. Maybe Rhizome will consider its human element a little
more seriously now that it's in a different position. Maybe it doesn't need
to, and this is all just a personal issue.