D42 Kandinskij
Since the beginning
Works in Cjii Ibatzu United States of America

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DISCUSSION

(no subject)


New Hafler Trio works to be played on The Bermuda Triangle

selections from the two new phonometrography releases:
How to Slice a Loaf of Bread
and
ae3o & h3ae
will be aired on London's Resonance f.m. at12.00 Midnight, this
Thursday 11th
December 2003,
available to the central London area and the world via live
websteam.

the bermuda triangle is broadcast every thursday night on
resonance fm 104.4
in london (uk),
or worldwide on http://www.resonancefm.com between 12:00 and
01:00am gmt
(time zone converter:
http://www.worldtimeserver.com/?h=8&mn0&ap=pm&mo=6&d'&y 03&f=GB)

DISCUSSION

Re: Materialism/Mysticism (was Re: No Web Art in the Whitney Biennial?)


To whoever wrote: the material and spiritual certainly are one, and there are plenty of Western "philosophies" indicating the latter--just like there are more of their fair share of pseudo-cults "dictating" the American mindset and media-output which derive from misguided misunderstandings of exactly what that means. The spiritual and material may be one, but $100,000 million will not buy you entrance into the spiritual, nor will "friends" "connections" "communities" and "networks". Or will they? It's not that simplistic though "thinking" will not give you the answer. Didn't to Einstein either.

To Eryk:

Yes, a pretty good biennal, indeed.

DISCUSSION

Re: Moderator - Eyebeam Distributed Creativity Forum


Are collectives acceptible? If so, we are interested.

Rachel Greene wrote:

> Hi --
>
>
> Some of you may recall that Eyebeam invited Rhizomers to participate
> in
> an online forum on Distributed Creativity (see below for more
> information). There is a week duration in late November/early
> December
> in which the Distributed Creativity discussions will take place on
> Rhizome Raw (along side regular Raw happenings).
>
> According to Eyebeam, the moderator's responsibilities are to:
>
>
> * stir the conversation for that week
> * point people to look at art works for examples on Eyebeam's forum
> website
> * ask questions, engage participants
> * perhaps do one post a day during the seven day tenure
>
>
> I am looking for Moderators for the Rhizome Raw week -- November 28-
> December 4. There is a stipend ($200) for moderators so if you're
> interested in this project please email me with DC Moderator in the
> Subject Line and let me know why you would be willing to take on this
> responsibility. If you want to detail moderation experience that is
> welcome also. There is additional information on Distributed
> Creativity
> here:
>
> http://www.eyebeam.org/distributedcreativity
>
>
> Best, Rachel
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: "Beth R." <bethr@eyebeam.org>
> > Date: Tue Nov 4, 2003 3:25:04 PM US/Eastern
> > To: Rachel Greene <rachel@rhizome.org>
> >
> >
> > d i s t r i b u t e d c r e a t i v i t y
> > An Online Forum
> > Presented by Eyebeam and Still Water @ the University of Maine
> > Nov 12-Dec 19, 2003
> > www.eyebeam.org/distributedcreativity
> >
> > Artists are organizing impromptu street actions by mobile phone,
> > musicians
> > are repurposing peer-to-peer applications for artistic ends, and
> > programmers
> > are distributing electronic toolkits to help artists leap from code
> to
> > creation.
> >
> > Distributed Creativity, Eyebeam's sixth annual online forum,
> > investigates
> > new paradigms for artmaking that take advantage of mobile and
> > distributed
> > technologies such as WiFi, Weblogs, Wikis rich Internet
> applications,
> > voice
> > over IP and social software.
> >
> > Forum co-hosts, panelists and public participants from around the
> > world,
> > including Creative Commons, DATA, Fibreculture and Rhizome will
> > discuss the
> > artistic, legal, technical and social dynamics of creative networks
> > small
> > and large.
> >
> > All topics focussed on this question: What kinds of innovations are
> > required
> > to sustain or support Distributed Creativity?
> >
> > Topic 1 Nov 12-19
> > Copyleft, Right & Center: Innovations in Law w/ Creative Commons
> >
> > Topic 2 Nov 20-27
> > Mobile Creativity: Innovations in Technology w/ DATA
> >
> > Topic 3 Nov 28-Dec 4
> > Digital Karma: Innovations in Ethics w/ Rhizome
> >
> > Topic 4 Dec 5-11
> > Whose Version?: Innovations in Authorship w/ Fibreculture
> >
> > Topic 5 Dec 12-17
> > Mod the Market: Innovations in Commerce
> >
> > Wrap Up Dec. 17-19
> >
> >
>

DISCUSSION

Re: Materialism/Mysticism (was Re: No Web Art in the Whitney Biennial?)


Names
Marcel Duchamp
Karl Marx
Joseph Beuys
Erich Fromm
Curt Cloninger
John Cage
Mesiter Eckhart
Tristan Tzara
Eryk Salvaggio

We insist on being added to the names list. Thank you.

`~.D42

Eryk Salvaggio wrote:

> (weirdest change of subject I've seen in a while)
>
> Curt;
>
> The problem with a lot of moderate views of Marxism and Socialism is
> that
> they react to a very base element of spirituality (which many people
> do).
> This is really true with any secular movement. The interesting thing
> though
> is that revolution serves the same function that religion might.
>
> Erich Fromm suggested that there were two types of religion-
> humanistic and
> totalitarian; and that totalitarian religion is an escape from
> freedom,
> while humanistic religion allows an individual to look at their own
> freedom
> and not be afraid, but to embrace freedom for positive action. I think
> a lot
> of secular movements, like Marxism, look at totalitarian religion and
> mistake it for *all* religion- certainly Marx did. Totalitarian
> Religion is
> the opiate of the masses, indeed- but humanistic religion shares its
> aims
> with Marxism: Liberation of the human spirit. The underlying
> disagreement is
> unfortunate for both.
>
> Humanistic religion sees God as an idealized state for humanity to
> struggle
> towards; Revolution is about the struggle for an idealized state. God
> is
> within each follower and allows each individual to reach their
> greatest
> potential in Religion; just substitute "revolution" with "god" and you
> get
> the same thing. The key difference, from what I see, is that I see far
> more
> happy religious people than happy revolutionaries. Revolutionaries
> fall so
> quickly into totalitarianism; it is hard to turn down the power over
> others
> that comes with equating oneself with a state of righteousness, be it
> political or spiritual.
>
> Situatationists, Dadaists, and your beloved Conceptual artists; at
> their
> best, take the ideas that Fromm took as well- that the evidence of
> liberation is in spontaneity; which is a different realization from
> much of
> religion, though much-abused Zen thought lends itself towards
> understanding
> enlightenment as spontaneity as well. Have you read Meister Eckhart?
> He's a
> Christian Mystic from the 13th century, and a lot of the translations
> I have
> of him are decidedly Marxist. Here's his poem, written here in prose
> form to
> emphasize its Marxist nature:
>
> "Commerce is supported by keeping the individual at odds with himself
> and
> others, by making us want more than we need, and offering credit to
> buy what
> refined senses do not want. The masses become shackled, I see how
> their eyes
> weep and are desperate- of course they feel desperate- for some remedy
> that
> a poor soul feels needs to be bought. I find nothing more offensive
> than a
> god who would condemn human instincts in us that time in all its
> wonder have
> made perfect. I find nothing more destructive to the well being of
> life than
> to support a god who makes you feel unworthy and in debt to it. I
> imagine
> erecting churches to such a strange god will assure the endless wars
> that
> commerce loves."
>
> It strikes me as interesting that anyone with religious views would
> hold
> such a strong disregard to conceptual art, when I have always seen it
> as an
> extension of religion. I get in trouble for using the word "mysticism"
> in a
> secular way now and then, so maybe my pov hasn't allowed me to see how
> someone who is *truly* religious could find it offensive. Do you think
> conceptual art is challenging the position of actual faith in God? (I
> mean
> this in all sincerity- it has always been my understanding that
> conceptual
> art ala Cage, Beuys, Tzara and Duchamp is all about mysticism- I know
> Cage
> and Tzara say it pretty explicitly.)
>
> -e.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "curt cloninger" <curt@lab404.com>
> To: <list@rhizome.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:05 PM
> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No Web Art in
> the
> Whitney Biennial?
>
>
> > Michael Szpakowski wrote:
> >
> > > All marxism at bottom asserts is that ideas don't come
> > > from nowhere but arise out of how we reproduce
> > > ourselves and the necessities of life - food,
> > > clothing, shelter.
> > > I'm not trying to fluffify it here - the consequences
> > > of these ideas are far reaching, but the ideas
> > > themselves are pretty straightforward.
> > > It's indubitably the case that without the things
> > > above listed then
> > > "love and intimacy and thanksgiving and
> > > creativity and celebration and barbaric yawpin'"
> > > which I too value in all their glorious human
> > > particularity and enormously varied manifestations
> > > throughout history, would not occur.
> >
> > Hi Michael,
> >
> > I'm not so sure that's true. There is no denying that
> reproduction,
> food, clothing, and shelter are ever with us on this earth, but I
> don't know
> whether their persistent presence makes them the underlying (or even
> prime)
> cause for every other thing we do. I've always had two eyeballs in my
> head,
> but not all my actions derive from that fact.
> >
> > If a spiritual world exists, but I don't allow for its existence, I
> will
> wrongly attribute spiritual influences to material causes. If a
> spiritual
> world doesn't exist, but I believe one does, I will wrongly attribute
> material influences to spiritual causes.
> >
> > I believe a spiritual world exists.
> >
> > local mileage may vary,
> > curt
> > +
> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
>

DISCUSSION

the evil males who cause war (good morning america)


About 916:

After losing a ball game to an older boy, a six-year old Icelander named
Egil drives a heavy ax into the older boy's brain. This killing was not
adjudged homicide because it was done in broad daylight before witnesses,
and was deemed justifiable because the older boy had gloated over his
victory in front of Egil. Egil's mother expressed pride in her son for his
actions, for she believed that it showed that he had the makings of a good
Viking. Matronly delight in raising homicidal children recurred a thousand
years later among New Guinea headhunters and the feather-awarding women of
Great War Britain, and suggests that mothers play vital parts in creating
and sustaining cultures in which men revere violence.