I apologize if I didn't seem compassionate -- I was caught up in the art
historical context, etc., I didn't mean to belittle Carlo's concerns about
artbase policy. Sorry, Rachel
> You know, I think it is entirely possible that TS's work was made without
> knowledge of CZ's work. If you look at 'Hole in the sky' on TS's website,
> concept behind it is justified in a compelling way.
> But to resolve this matter, why doesn't Rhizome offer to include CZ's
> piece in
> the Artbase and maybe even maintain links between the two works? I get the
> feeling that the idea behind CZ's work is based on the fact that the
> simply aren't there anymore but TS explains that his idea was based on the
> resulting chaos/dropped requests on the internet around the time of the
> tragic event. I find both quite compelling and interesting pieces.
> I think it's quite significant if in fact one event led two different
> to come to such similar conclusions and that they may be based on very
> different ideas.
> I can well understand CZ's anger though. I'd be pretty pissed if I were in
> shoes. I think the Rhizome people who have responded to him could show a
> little more compassion.
> Pall Thayer
> On Thursday 03 July 2003 19:32, Rachel@rhizome.org
>> > TS can copy what he prefers, how many times he wants. The only problem
>> > that ArtBase that (i was thinking) should have an historicization
>> > function,
>> > accepted it.
>> > So following your idea next year I can take the ascii works by eryk,
>> > change
>> > 1 color and then this wonderful reinterpretation will be listed as a
>> > work? Everything in this digital age can be copied and restyled and
>> > that's the reason why people's brains in valuating things (artworks,
>> > songs, poetries and so on.) are so important today .
>> Yes, if you were undertake a project to copy, deliberately, Eryk's work,
>> he (Eryk) might not *like it,* but it could constitute a project. In
>> case, since you had made it clear that you were interested in making a
>> work about copying and plagiarism, I think the Eryk-copies would be read
>> in the historical context of those modes.
>> I didn't suggest that TS intended to copy your work -- I think that is
>> you're interpreting it, but that is your call. I have no idea.
>> > Perhaps you believe in djing. i don't.
>> > so thank you for your time Rachel,
>> > all the best,
>> > carlo zanni
>> > "As a friend, as a friend, as an old enemy
>> > Take your time, hurry up
>> > The choice is your, don't be late
>> > Take a rest as a friend as an old memoria"
>> > come as you are, nirvana
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: <Rachel@rhizome.org
>> > To: "Eryk Salvaggio" <firstname.lastname@example.org
>> > Cc: "cz" <email@example.com>;
>> > <firstname.lastname@example.org>;
>> > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 7:27 PM
>> > Subject: Re: Historically Significant Imitations
>> >> To me there are obvious similarities and differences with the works.
>> >> both, the use of two image fields represents the twin towers. Carlo's
>> >> work
>> >> uses color however, to suggest the passage of time, and I think, an
>> >> emotional range.
>> >> But even if the Scarpino piece uses imitation or derivation, I don't
>> >> think
>> >> that precludes its inclusion in the artbase, or invalidates it as a
>> >> work.
>> >> Imitation, derivation and appropriation have been established
>> >> for centuries. Artists would often compete and dialogue with one
>> >> by painting the same landscape, or mythical scene, using the same
>> >> conventions -- pushing the limits of painting a particular building
>> >> church -- seeing what happened when the building was painted by
>> >> different
>> >> hands with unique techniques. In contemporary discourse,
>> >> re-photography, plagiarism are de rigeur. Examples include Sherry
>> >> (After Walker Evans), and Rauschenburg's piece when he erased a de
>> >> Kooning
>> >> to make his own work (I think it was de Kooning.). As you point out
>> >> Eryk,
>> >> online, authorship is even more slippery (01's), and net artists have
>> >> had
>> >> to go so far as to foreground url data to render a web work unique
>> >> (Lialina's Agatha Appears).
>> >> Carlo, I think if I were you, I would try to think of Scarpino's
>> >> in
>> >> dialogue with yours -- perhaps a tribute, perhaps a response. Maybe
>> >> comes out of a totally different context that renders it an important
>> >> expression (e.g. Scarpino's relationship to 9.11, his work in
>> >> architecture, his all white oeuvre -- I am making these up, but you
>> >> my
>> >> point). I find your work more interesting in light of the fact that
>> >> there
>> >> is other, similar work being made -- it makes one want to dig deeper.
>> >> Finally, there isn't anything "new" or "original" about using forms
>> >> web compositions, (and I don't even know if "new" or "original" makes
>> >> work
>> >> valuable anymore) as I am sure you are aware. If you think you've
>> >> ripped off in the mean-spirited sense of the word, I would encourage
>> >> contact Alena about it. But given the trauma of 9-11, and people's
>> >> to
>> >> respond and react to it, I personally doubt that is a dominant factor
>> >> Scarpino's project.
>> >> I will leave the artbase policy for Alena to address.
>> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
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> Pall Thayer