Re: Membership fee

dear all,

Rhizome is certainly not alone these days as a non-profit art org in search of funding. Just about everyone in NY, including the older established non-profits, seems to be scrambling. There always seems to be a combo of benefit dinners, silent auctions, foundation grants, corporate sponsorships, private gifts, that have to be achieved year after year, in order to survive. Of that list, what fundraising process has Rhizome yet to approach?

I'm no expert on fundraising, but there are definitely experts nearby, in New York. People who've been doing this for a while. Why not call upon the directors of arts organizations that have managed to hang in there over the years (decades) such as White Columns and Artists Space? I'm sure they would be happy to share their expertise. Call them up, buy them lunch, pick their brains (if you haven't already). What about pooling resources/knowlege? That would be rather rhizomatic…

As for charging fees from Rhizomers, it would definitely change the nature and demographics of Rhizome, for better or worse. For every one person who pays, how many would just leave? And would Rhizome suffer or benefit from their absense? good question.

Also, if you do institute fees, I agree there should be designated areas that are accessible to all–such as the artbase. Perhaps there should be the usual free-for-all at RAW, and paid "members' areas." That's not an easy call. But I guess what I'm thinking is that charging fees would help but not solve the funding problem. If you do it, do it in conjunction with other money-raising schemes.

best,
Joy

PS: Visual AIDS is also in big trouble – their Postcards from the Edge benefit is being held Monday Oct 28 at Sperone, 6-9pm: http://www.thebody.com/visualaids/current/postcards2002.html

Comments

, Samantha Levin

At this point, I don't have much time to get heavily involved in Rhizome, but I do hope to in the future.

To keep myself up to date I currently read the digests that come into my in-box and occasionally look through the site.

To try to convince others to take a look at Rhizome, I forward the digest to them from my e-mail in-box. They've often responded by joining Rhizome or, at the very least, remarking to me how impressed they are with you.

From that, my suggestion is to:

1. Keep Rhizome Digest free. I am willing to pay a small fee for this, but I would want to be able to continue forwarding it to others.

2. Keep some pages free- people will join once they've gotten their feet wet.

3. You won't lose many members by charging a membership fee- especially a sliding scale. You should, however, make the payment process as easy as possible.

4. Make allowances for some deserving artists/groups who can't afford to pay for services they need to access.



Thank you for providing a truly wonderful and powerful art forum.

Samantha Levin

, Vijay Pattisapu

BEST IDEA EVER. LET'S DO THIS ONE, FRIENDS.
> "furtherfield" <[email protected]> "Mark Tribe" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Membership feeDate: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 23:47:44 -0000
>Reply-To: "furtherfield" <[email protected]>
>
>Ok Mark,
>
>How about skill swaping - this is also a thing we do. Yep, I know that
>you've done a bit in the past. But this is an emergency. Offer certain
>privelages from rhizome like extra publicity/ promotion of art etc in return
>for doing ceratin jobs. Make it all open and official so anyone who has a
>computer skill, no matter how big or small can help in some way.
>
>marc
>
>
>> At 08:05 AM 10/29/2002 +0000, Ivan Pope wrote:
>>
>> >Funny thing is, possibly the most interesting thing Rhizome does is
>> >Commissions. But can I find anything about them on the Rhizome site?
>>
>> The link is under Art + Text. Or go directly to
>http://rhizome.org/commissions.
>>
>> We are currently waiting for funding to get the next cycle going.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> + new media rugby
>> -> post: [email protected]
>> -> questions: [email protected]
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>>
>
>
>+ new media rugby
>-> post: [email protected]
>-> questions: [email protected]
>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>+
>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php




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, marc garrett

Ok Mark,

How about skill swaping - this is also a thing we do. Yep, I know that
you've done a bit in the past. But this is an emergency. Offer certain
privelages from rhizome like extra publicity/ promotion of art etc in return
for doing ceratin jobs. Make it all open and official so anyone who has a
computer skill, no matter how big or small can help in some way.

marc


> At 08:05 AM 10/29/2002 +0000, Ivan Pope wrote:
>
> >Funny thing is, possibly the most interesting thing Rhizome does is
> >Commissions. But can I find anything about them on the Rhizome site?
>
> The link is under Art + Text. Or go directly to
http://rhizome.org/commissions.
>
> We are currently waiting for funding to get the next cycle going.
>
> Best,
>
> Mark
>
> + new media rugby
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>

, Conor McGarrigle

> > 3. You won't lose many members by charging a membership fee- especially
a
> > sliding scale. You should, however, make the payment process as easy as
> > possible.
>
> All my experience of the net tells me this is totally untrue. You will
> certainly lose a majority and possibly a large majority of your members by
> introducing a fee.

I've got to agree with Ivan, i get worried when I hear calculations like
19,000 members at $5 a head - if only 1% gave a donation increasing this
donation rate to 25 % would be quite a feat but would it be enough? Then you
have to remember that Rhizome's importance comes from it's 19,000 members
and the artbase, what effect would a drastic reduction in this membership
have on other income sources? Before you go ahead with this you need to know
what percentage of your membership can you afford to lose.

>The issue will not necessarily be the fee itself, but the
> perceived effort needed to pay it. Imposing a fee immediately raises the
> question in the mind of the user: what is the value of this service to me?
> Would I care if I didnt have access? And a lot of people will from that
> point drift off elsewhere.

I also think it'd be foolish to underestimate the reluctance of people to
pay any membership whatever the price. In some ways i think you can
attribute the fact that the web is still essentially free to this point
blank refusal to pay anything, however reasonable. Remember Napster?

>
> So what is the value of Rhizome to most individuals? Well, to me its
almost
> all the list. And to be honest, I dont feel that has much value these
days.
> The web site is conceptually interesting, but I dont really use if much.
Of
> course, there is value in the collection of works on the site, but to some
> degree this is just a directory (as most of the works would continue to
> exist even if not cloned on Rhizome). The events etc information is
> interesting, but I get it all elsewhere.


I think I'd pay but that'd be more because I've been a member for years
rather then the fact that I couldn't do without it.

all the best

Conor

———————————————————
Stunned
http://www.stunned.org

, Mark Tribe

At 08:05 AM 10/29/2002 +0000, Ivan Pope wrote:

>Funny thing is, possibly the most interesting thing Rhizome does is
>Commissions. But can I find anything about them on the Rhizome site?

The link is under Art + Text. Or go directly to http://rhizome.org/commissions.

We are currently waiting for funding to get the next cycle going.

Best,

Mark

, Ivan Pope

> From: Samantha Levin <[email protected]>

> 3. You won't lose many members by charging a membership fee- especially a
> sliding scale. You should, however, make the payment process as easy as
> possible.

All my experience of the net tells me this is totally untrue. You will
certainly lose a majority and possibly a large majority of your members by
introducing a fee. The issue will not necessarily be the fee itself, but the
perceived effort needed to pay it. Imposing a fee immediately raises the
question in the mind of the user: what is the value of this service to me?
Would I care if I didnt have access? And a lot of people will from that
point drift off elsewhere.

So what is the value of Rhizome to most individuals? Well, to me its almost
all the list. And to be honest, I dont feel that has much value these days.
The web site is conceptually interesting, but I dont really use if much. Of
course, there is value in the collection of works on the site, but to some
degree this is just a directory (as most of the works would continue to
exist even if not cloned on Rhizome). The events etc information is
interesting, but I get it all elsewhere.

"Our core activities include commissions, email discussions and
publications, this web site, and events."

Funny thing is, possibly the most interesting thing Rhizome does is
Commissions. But can I find anything about them on the Rhizome site? No. So
I cant even check whether or not I care whether this activity continues.

To sum up, for myself, I cant really see what Rhizome spends all its money
on. I cant see what I would really, really miss if it went. I dont know
about commissions. The email discussions I would probably be better off
without at this stage. Publications I dont see. The Web site is a good
resource, but will be/is replicated elsewhere. Events? Dont see them.

The main thing that I crave is real community among artists. And that I dont
get from Rhizome or anywhere else, except in a very loose generic sense.

So would I pay for Rhizome to continue? Yes. But thats the sort of person I
am. I wouldnt rely on the mass of other subscribers to be that bothered.

Cheers, Ivan

, richard fitzgerald

Art + text > Rhizome commissions. I can understand completely how you found
it difficult to find.

—–Original Message—–
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of
Ivan Pope
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 10:06 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Membership fee


> From: Samantha Levin <[email protected]>

> 3. You won't lose many members by charging a membership fee- especially a
> sliding scale. You should, however, make the payment process as easy as
> possible.

All my experience of the net tells me this is totally untrue. You will
certainly lose a majority and possibly a large majority of your members by
introducing a fee. The issue will not necessarily be the fee itself, but the
perceived effort needed to pay it. Imposing a fee immediately raises the
question in the mind of the user: what is the value of this service to me?
Would I care if I didnt have access? And a lot of people will from that
point drift off elsewhere.

So what is the value of Rhizome to most individuals? Well, to me its almost
all the list. And to be honest, I dont feel that has much value these days.
The web site is conceptually interesting, but I dont really use if much. Of
course, there is value in the collection of works on the site, but to some
degree this is just a directory (as most of the works would continue to
exist even if not cloned on Rhizome). The events etc information is
interesting, but I get it all elsewhere.

"Our core activities include commissions, email discussions and
publications, this web site, and events."

Funny thing is, possibly the most interesting thing Rhizome does is
Commissions. But can I find anything about them on the Rhizome site? No. So
I cant even check whether or not I care whether this activity continues.

To sum up, for myself, I cant really see what Rhizome spends all its money
on. I cant see what I would really, really miss if it went. I dont know
about commissions. The email discussions I would probably be better off
without at this stage. Publications I dont see. The Web site is a good
resource, but will be/is replicated elsewhere. Events? Dont see them.

The main thing that I crave is real community among artists. And that I dont
get from Rhizome or anywhere else, except in a very loose generic sense.

So would I pay for Rhizome to continue? Yes. But thats the sort of person I
am. I wouldnt rely on the mass of other subscribers to be that bothered.

Cheers, Ivan

+ new media rugby
-> post: [email protected]
-> questions: [email protected]
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

, marc garrett

Not a bad one I thought…

marc


> BEST IDEA I'VE SEEN SO FAR.. LET'S DO THIS ONE!
>
> > "furtherfield" <[email protected]> "Mark Tribe" <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Membership feeDate: Tue, 29 Oct 2002
23:47:44 -0000
> >Reply-To: "furtherfield" <[email protected]>
> >
> >Ok Mark,
> >
> >How about skill swaping - this is also a thing we do. Yep, I know that
> >you've done a bit in the past. But this is an emergency. Offer certain
> >privelages from rhizome like extra publicity/ promotion of art etc in
return
> >for doing ceratin jobs. Make it all open and official so anyone who has a
> >computer skill, no matter how big or small can help in some way.
> >
> >marc
> >
> >
> >> At 08:05 AM 10/29/2002 +0000, Ivan Pope wrote:
> >>
> >> >Funny thing is, possibly the most interesting thing Rhizome does is
> >> >Commissions. But can I find anything about them on the Rhizome site?
> >>
> >> The link is under Art + Text. Or go directly to
> >http://rhizome.org/commissions.
> >>
> >> We are currently waiting for funding to get the next cycle going.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >> + new media rugby
> >> -> post: [email protected]
> >> -> questions: [email protected]
> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> +
> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >+ new media rugby
> >-> post: [email protected]
> >-> questions: [email protected]
> >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >+
> >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
>
>
> ————————————————————
> Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
> Register Online Here -> http://www.junglist.com
>
>
> ———————————————————————
> Express yourself with a super cool email address from BigMailBox.com.
> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
> http://www.bigmailbox.com
> ———————————————————————
>

, D42 Kandinskij

Afaik, he should make the SuperUsers pay. If it is treated properly,
and they are not allowed to get out of control 'because they've paid'–
having those people pay would insure that they make an 'investment' into
what they're doing.

Or, alternatively, make the Rhizome filtered by SuperUsers
expensive.

ciao.

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Vijay Pattisapu wrote:

> BEST IDEA EVER. LET'S DO THIS ONE, FRIENDS.
> > "furtherfield" <[email protected]> "Mark Tribe" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Membership feeDate: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 23:47:44 -0000
> >Reply-To: "furtherfield" <[email protected]>
> >
> >Ok Mark,
> >
> >How about skill swaping - this is also a thing we do. Yep, I know that
> >you've done a bit in the past. But this is an emergency. Offer certain
> >privelages from rhizome like extra publicity/ promotion of art etc in return
> >for doing ceratin jobs. Make it all open and official so anyone who has a
> >computer skill, no matter how big or small can help in some way.
> >
> >marc
> >
> >
> >> At 08:05 AM 10/29/2002 +0000, Ivan Pope wrote:
> >>
> >> >Funny thing is, possibly the most interesting thing Rhizome does is
> >> >Commissions. But can I find anything about them on the Rhizome site?
> >>
> >> The link is under Art + Text. Or go directly to
> >http://rhizome.org/commissions.
> >>
> >> We are currently waiting for funding to get the next cycle going.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >> + new media rugby
> >> -> post: [email protected]
> >> -> questions: [email protected]
> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> +
> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >+ new media rugby
> >-> post: [email protected]
> >-> questions: [email protected]
> >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >+
> >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
>
>
> ————————————————————
> Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
> Register Online Here -> http://www.junglist.com
>
>
> ———————————————————————
> Express yourself with a super cool email address from BigMailBox.com.
> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
> http://www.bigmailbox.com
> ———————————————————————
> + new media rugby
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

o
[ + ]

+ + +


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