The problem of applying logic to accommodate delusion, is that when assumptions are false, nothing can result. Not to be disrespectful of the mind that produces an opinion, but if our underlying assumptions are different, we cannot reach an accommodation. I can accept the assumption that to some level, each and every human being hopes there is an afterlife, or hopes they are wrong in denying an afterlife. I can can understand that some believe (a basic assumption) there is a being who has organized things such that afterlife exists and that in order to reach this afterlife in a satisfactory position they must abide by certain rules in this life. However, my belief (basic assumption) is that these people are deluded. I can respect a process they might perform to attain a certain opinion, however if that opinion is based upon their basic assumption, I cannot respect the opinion itself.
Thus you will need to explain the underlying basis for such statements as "Art should study and not disparage or dismiss religion" - if it is based upon your faith then I would probably have to reject this statement out of hand. If you can place it within a argument that world peace or some such practical matter might be achieved, I could effectively listen.
Joseph
Max Herman wrote: > > > Networkism: The Kingdom of God is Within You > Max Herman > September 15, 2007 > > > Kingdom=network=polis=culture > > God
personally, i don't know if there's a god. i see no reason to believe so. i see no reason to believe not. i am agnostic. however, i see good reason not to try to explain earthly matters by attributing them to god's actions or will. that's no explanation at all. and i see no reason to believe that stories from the bible have anything more than a poetic truth. the overwhelming evidence, from fossils, from geological analysis, and from dna analysis is that we arose from the simplest of life forms on this planet (or some other).
that doesn't mean there is no god. but it does mean that the stories in the bible about how humanity arose are mistaken and have, at most, a poetical truth. they are to be understood figuratively, not literally.
poetical truth is very important to me.
currently i'm reading 'the blind watchmaker' by richard dawkins. in it, he claims to explain how we can understand how very complex things such as animal and human physiology can arise without a designer. this sort of argument is important not only to matters biological but in art, concerning generative art.
recently i visited europe for the first time. i visited a 600 year old church in haarlem, near amsterdam. amazing. there was a 5000+ pipe organ; an apprentice played it throughout our visit. also, the church had various other artifacts in it that impressed one with the realization that the church was very much an important local 'gallery'. the architecture. the organ. the artifacts. everything in it was a testament to the destiny and vision of the people buried under it. and their vision of god and humanity, of the cosmic drama. and their ingenuity. their passion. their seeking of answers. it was a tremendously uplifting experience.
ps: during the visit to the church, i was wearing a t-shirt with a big picture of george w bush. above the picture was the word INTERNATIONAL and below the picture was the word TERRORIST. as it happened, i chanced across two usamerican couples in the church. the female of the first couple approached me and said 'that's a very interesting t-shirt you have there.' i told her i bought it from the usa. she asked me where. internationalterrorist.com, i told her. ah, she said, that makes sense. i can't see anyone taking the chance of selling it in their store, she said. she and her husband were from seattle. she said 'you know, we look and we listen, and we can hardly believe what we're hearing at home.'
the male of the second couple approached me some time later. he spoke with a thick dutch english accent. he said 'i'm very disappointed to see you wearing such a thing about my president. i voted for him twice and i'll do it again.' i had to give my head a bit of a shake. this was the first person i'd met who actually admitted to voting for george w. bush. and we were far from the madding crowd. and i was a bit stoned on good amsterdam pot. 'actually, no you won't', i said. 'you can't. he can't run again.'
'it doesn't matter,' he said, 'i'll do it anyway.'
i had to laugh. whether through design or whatever, my laughter echoed through the dutch church. i stopped. it sounded like me but not just me. it wasn't him, though: he wasn't laughing.
> —–Original Message—– > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of > Max Herman > Sent: September 15, 2007 9:06 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Networkism: The Kingdom of God is Within You > > > > > Networkism: The Kingdom of God is Within You > Max Herman > September 15, 2007 > > > Kingdom=network=polis=culture > > God
>From: Jim Andrews <[email protected]> >Reply-To: Jim Andrews <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: Networkism: The Kingdom of God is Within You >Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 14:49:39 -0700 > >personally, i don't know if there's a god. i see no reason to believe so. i >see no reason to believe not. i am agnostic. however, i see good reason not >to try to explain earthly matters by attributing them to god's actions or >will. that's no explanation at all. and i see no reason to believe that >stories from the bible have anything more than a poetic truth. the >overwhelming evidence, from fossils, from geological analysis, and from dna >analysis is that we arose from the simplest of life forms on this planet >(or >some other). > >that doesn't mean there is no god. but it does mean that the stories in the >bible about how humanity arose are mistaken and have, at most, a poetical >truth. they are to be understood figuratively, not literally. > >poetical truth is very important to me. > >currently i'm reading 'the blind watchmaker' by richard dawkins. in it, he >claims to explain how we can understand how very complex things such as >animal and human physiology can arise without a designer. this sort of >argument is important not only to matters biological but in art, concerning >generative art. > >recently i visited europe for the first time. i visited a 600 year old >church in haarlem, near amsterdam. amazing. there was a 5000+ pipe organ; >an >apprentice played it throughout our visit. also, the church had various >other artifacts in it that impressed one with the realization that the >church was very much an important local 'gallery'. the architecture. the >organ. the artifacts. everything in it was a testament to the destiny and >vision of the people buried under it. and their vision of god and humanity, >of the cosmic drama. and their ingenuity. their passion. their seeking of >answers. it was a tremendously uplifting experience. > >ja >http://vispo.com > >ps: during the visit to the church, i was wearing a t-shirt with a big >picture of george w bush. above the picture was the word INTERNATIONAL and >below the picture was the word TERRORIST. as it happened, i chanced across >two usamerican couples in the church. the female of the first couple >approached me and said 'that's a very interesting t-shirt you have there.' >i >told her i bought it from the usa. she asked me where. >internationalterrorist.com, i told her. ah, she said, that makes sense. i >can't see anyone taking the chance of selling it in their store, she said. >she and her husband were from seattle. she said 'you know, we look and we >listen, and we can hardly believe what we're hearing at home.' > >the male of the second couple approached me some time later. he spoke with >a >thick dutch english accent. he said 'i'm very disappointed to see you >wearing such a thing about my president. i voted for him twice and i'll do >it again.' i had to give my head a bit of a shake. this was the first >person >i'd met who actually admitted to voting for george w. bush. and we were far >from the madding crowd. and i was a bit stoned on good amsterdam pot. >'actually, no you won't', i said. 'you can't. he can't run again.' > >'it doesn't matter,' he said, 'i'll do it anyway.' > >i had to laugh. whether through design or whatever, my laughter echoed >through the dutch church. i stopped. it sounded like me but not just me. it >wasn't him, though: he wasn't laughing. > > > > > —–Original Message—– > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of > > Max Herman > > Sent: September 15, 2007 9:06 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Networkism: The Kingdom of God is Within You > > > > > > > > > > Networkism: The Kingdom of God is Within You > > Max Herman > > September 15, 2007 > > > > > > Kingdom=network=polis=culture > > > > God
Comments
The problem of applying logic to accommodate delusion, is that when
assumptions are false, nothing can result. Not to be disrespectful of
the mind that produces an opinion, but if our underlying assumptions are
different, we cannot reach an accommodation. I can accept the
assumption that to some level, each and every human being hopes there is
an afterlife, or hopes they are wrong in denying an afterlife. I can can
understand that some believe (a basic assumption) there is a being who
has organized things such that afterlife exists and that in order to
reach this afterlife in a satisfactory position they must abide by
certain rules in this life. However, my belief (basic assumption) is
that these people are deluded. I can respect a process they might
perform to attain a certain opinion, however if that opinion is based
upon their basic assumption, I cannot respect the opinion itself.
Thus you will need to explain the underlying basis for such statements
as "Art should study and not disparage or dismiss religion" - if it is
based upon your faith then I would probably have to reject this
statement out of hand. If you can place it within a argument that world
peace or some such practical matter might be achieved, I could
effectively listen.
Joseph
Max Herman wrote:
>
>
> Networkism: The Kingdom of God is Within You
> Max Herman
> September 15, 2007
>
>
> Kingdom=network=polis=culture
>
> God
personally, i don't know if there's a god. i see no reason to believe so. i
see no reason to believe not. i am agnostic. however, i see good reason not
to try to explain earthly matters by attributing them to god's actions or
will. that's no explanation at all. and i see no reason to believe that
stories from the bible have anything more than a poetic truth. the
overwhelming evidence, from fossils, from geological analysis, and from dna
analysis is that we arose from the simplest of life forms on this planet (or
some other).
that doesn't mean there is no god. but it does mean that the stories in the
bible about how humanity arose are mistaken and have, at most, a poetical
truth. they are to be understood figuratively, not literally.
poetical truth is very important to me.
currently i'm reading 'the blind watchmaker' by richard dawkins. in it, he
claims to explain how we can understand how very complex things such as
animal and human physiology can arise without a designer. this sort of
argument is important not only to matters biological but in art, concerning
generative art.
recently i visited europe for the first time. i visited a 600 year old
church in haarlem, near amsterdam. amazing. there was a 5000+ pipe organ; an
apprentice played it throughout our visit. also, the church had various
other artifacts in it that impressed one with the realization that the
church was very much an important local 'gallery'. the architecture. the
organ. the artifacts. everything in it was a testament to the destiny and
vision of the people buried under it. and their vision of god and humanity,
of the cosmic drama. and their ingenuity. their passion. their seeking of
answers. it was a tremendously uplifting experience.
ja
http://vispo.com
ps: during the visit to the church, i was wearing a t-shirt with a big
picture of george w bush. above the picture was the word INTERNATIONAL and
below the picture was the word TERRORIST. as it happened, i chanced across
two usamerican couples in the church. the female of the first couple
approached me and said 'that's a very interesting t-shirt you have there.' i
told her i bought it from the usa. she asked me where.
internationalterrorist.com, i told her. ah, she said, that makes sense. i
can't see anyone taking the chance of selling it in their store, she said.
she and her husband were from seattle. she said 'you know, we look and we
listen, and we can hardly believe what we're hearing at home.'
the male of the second couple approached me some time later. he spoke with a
thick dutch english accent. he said 'i'm very disappointed to see you
wearing such a thing about my president. i voted for him twice and i'll do
it again.' i had to give my head a bit of a shake. this was the first person
i'd met who actually admitted to voting for george w. bush. and we were far
from the madding crowd. and i was a bit stoned on good amsterdam pot.
'actually, no you won't', i said. 'you can't. he can't run again.'
'it doesn't matter,' he said, 'i'll do it anyway.'
i had to laugh. whether through design or whatever, my laughter echoed
through the dutch church. i stopped. it sounded like me but not just me. it
wasn't him, though: he wasn't laughing.
> —–Original Message—–
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of
> Max Herman
> Sent: September 15, 2007 9:06 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Networkism: The Kingdom of God is Within You
>
>
>
>
> Networkism: The Kingdom of God is Within You
> Max Herman
> September 15, 2007
>
>
> Kingdom=network=polis=culture
>
> God
Good story Jim! Thanks for relating it. A good note on which to end my
postings for now.
Best regards,
Max Herman
The Genius 2000 Network
Rolling Submissions OK Through 9/15
www.geocities.com/genius-2000
+++
>From: Jim Andrews <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: Jim Andrews <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: Networkism: The Kingdom of God is Within You
>Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 14:49:39 -0700
>
>personally, i don't know if there's a god. i see no reason to believe so. i
>see no reason to believe not. i am agnostic. however, i see good reason not
>to try to explain earthly matters by attributing them to god's actions or
>will. that's no explanation at all. and i see no reason to believe that
>stories from the bible have anything more than a poetic truth. the
>overwhelming evidence, from fossils, from geological analysis, and from dna
>analysis is that we arose from the simplest of life forms on this planet
>(or
>some other).
>
>that doesn't mean there is no god. but it does mean that the stories in the
>bible about how humanity arose are mistaken and have, at most, a poetical
>truth. they are to be understood figuratively, not literally.
>
>poetical truth is very important to me.
>
>currently i'm reading 'the blind watchmaker' by richard dawkins. in it, he
>claims to explain how we can understand how very complex things such as
>animal and human physiology can arise without a designer. this sort of
>argument is important not only to matters biological but in art, concerning
>generative art.
>
>recently i visited europe for the first time. i visited a 600 year old
>church in haarlem, near amsterdam. amazing. there was a 5000+ pipe organ;
>an
>apprentice played it throughout our visit. also, the church had various
>other artifacts in it that impressed one with the realization that the
>church was very much an important local 'gallery'. the architecture. the
>organ. the artifacts. everything in it was a testament to the destiny and
>vision of the people buried under it. and their vision of god and humanity,
>of the cosmic drama. and their ingenuity. their passion. their seeking of
>answers. it was a tremendously uplifting experience.
>
>ja
>http://vispo.com
>
>ps: during the visit to the church, i was wearing a t-shirt with a big
>picture of george w bush. above the picture was the word INTERNATIONAL and
>below the picture was the word TERRORIST. as it happened, i chanced across
>two usamerican couples in the church. the female of the first couple
>approached me and said 'that's a very interesting t-shirt you have there.'
>i
>told her i bought it from the usa. she asked me where.
>internationalterrorist.com, i told her. ah, she said, that makes sense. i
>can't see anyone taking the chance of selling it in their store, she said.
>she and her husband were from seattle. she said 'you know, we look and we
>listen, and we can hardly believe what we're hearing at home.'
>
>the male of the second couple approached me some time later. he spoke with
>a
>thick dutch english accent. he said 'i'm very disappointed to see you
>wearing such a thing about my president. i voted for him twice and i'll do
>it again.' i had to give my head a bit of a shake. this was the first
>person
>i'd met who actually admitted to voting for george w. bush. and we were far
>from the madding crowd. and i was a bit stoned on good amsterdam pot.
>'actually, no you won't', i said. 'you can't. he can't run again.'
>
>'it doesn't matter,' he said, 'i'll do it anyway.'
>
>i had to laugh. whether through design or whatever, my laughter echoed
>through the dutch church. i stopped. it sounded like me but not just me. it
>wasn't him, though: he wasn't laughing.
>
>
>
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of
> > Max Herman
> > Sent: September 15, 2007 9:06 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Networkism: The Kingdom of God is Within You
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Networkism: The Kingdom of God is Within You
> > Max Herman
> > September 15, 2007
> >
> >
> > Kingdom=network=polis=culture
> >
> > God
Max was it really about
Kingdom=network=polis=culture
God