That said, I've got a new project out that's in a sort of beta testing stage. It's called "Looking for the new universal harmony" and can be found at http://130.208.220.190/nuharm/
Hi all, I've got a new project I'm sort of beta testing. It's called "Looking for t= he new universal harmony" and can be found at http://130.208.220.190/nuharm= /
—– Original Message —– From: "Pall Thayer" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:10 PM Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: new work
Sound essential. Janet says it's Proustian, "but not in a good way". Comments, technical or aesthetic, welcome. michael
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requires sound and a certain degree of patience especially on a dial up.
michael
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One of my favorite authors is the french anthropologist Marcel Mauss and my favorite book of him is "The Gift: The Form and Reason for Exchange in Archaic Societies"
The Gift is Marcel Mauss's groundbreaking study of the relation between forms of exchange and social structure. A brilliant French sociologist and anthropologist, Mauss (1872-1950) used case studies of Melanesia, Polynesia, and northwestern North America to demonstrate that gift exchange is a total system at the center of society.
I like very much to give gifts (perhaps because of this book, perhaps I like to show my culture…) and you with your touching and very beautiful and sensitive work / gift dedicated to me, makes me feel I am sure. I would like to be able to send brazilian music to all rhizomes.
Many thanks again,
Regina
PS: The Museum of the Essential and Beyond That at http://arteonline.arq.br will show lots of news next month, including a new floor. The bathroom(s) are almost ready and they will be a lot of fun to you. Do not forget (all of you, rhizomes) that the dead line to send us an "artistic recipe from your region of the Earth" to our restaurants will be october, 10th.
I liked very much this work, high lights for me: greyscale and horizontal scroolbar as part of the art work.
The greyscale give to design an expressionist aspect. I love to work with greyscale too, my first ebook - "The white and the black, reflections on fog" (http://arteonline.arq.br/library.htm) was done in greyscale and I am always thinking about to do another work using greyscale.
To work with scroolbars give suspense to the art work, I enjoy it very much. I am using vertical scroolbars in my work Paris - Rio de Janeiro Gallery (http://arteonline.arq.br)
All debate about ownership and empowerment, democracy and accountability, long term perspectives and global, environmental issues are trodden underfoot and a chilling efficiency in dehumanising whole societies and populations, is allowed to remove any possibility of debate and empathic shared existence with those about to die.
Flaming (our/your/their rage) is a release of anger and frustration against the powerful. Power and rage smashes a country already suffering. A lack of power to control everything provokes this rage. Artist, activist, freedom fighter, terrorist - where do our liberal values start and stop? Rage of the new yorkers, rage of america as they experienced violation. Rage at our collective lack of insight and our/your/their crouched/couched response. Rage that they/you/we want revenge. Rage at the twittery of politicians, their sell-out, and our stupidity to think they might be something they could be. Rage at our own hypocrisy. Rage at the defeat of the left, and at the utter abandonment of real hope. Rage at the inadequacies of intellectual arguments. Rage that there isn't an easy answer. Rage that it’s complex and there's not enough time in a life-time. Rage that there's no serious debate about what we actually want and about how it can be achieved and about how we understand the world.
What is dished out from our representatives is simplistic, fundamentalist medieval crap. How can it be that I am either with you or against you? How can the means justify the ends justify the means? How can there be an axis of evil? How can this axis of evil shift so much that it obliterates ‘allies’ who ‘stood by our side’ so recently. How can this be the path of righteousness and the act of a democratic society when carpet bombing, depleted uranium shells and the full might of the very latest technologies - which we spend so much time discussing in terms of the alienating nature of its inherent logic - is used to incapacitate people/countries/societies in the name of progress and future generations?
For a cry of rage, Patrick, it's extraordinarily, viscerally beautiful. ( and this is true of the sound too, the intensity of which complements the visuals wonderfully) There's a real intentionality problem for me with yours and Kate's work - I just find it gobsmackingly gorgeous. best michael
— Patrick Simons <[email protected]> wrote: > http://www.gloriousninth.com/flaming.html > > Glorious Ninth > Flaming (our/your/their rage) 2004 > > > All debate about ownership and empowerment, > democracy and accountability, long term perspectives > and global, environmental issues are trodden > underfoot and a chilling efficiency in dehumanising > whole societies and populations, is allowed to > remove any possibility of debate and empathic shared > existence with those about to die. > > Flaming (our/your/their rage) is a release of anger > and frustration against the powerful. Power and rage > smashes a country already suffering. A lack of > power to control everything provokes this rage. > Artist, activist, freedom fighter, terrorist - where > do our liberal values start and stop? Rage of the > new yorkers, rage of america as they experienced > violation. Rage at our collective lack of insight > and our/your/their crouched/couched response. Rage > that they/you/we want revenge. Rage at the twittery > of politicians, their sell-out, and our stupidity to > think they might be something they could be. Rage > at our own hypocrisy. Rage at the defeat of the > left, and at the utter abandonment of real hope. > Rage at the inadequacies of intellectual arguments. > Rage that there isn't an easy answer. Rage that > it’s complex and there's not enough time in a > life-time. Rage that there's no serious debate about > what we actually want and about how it can be > achieved and about how we understan! > d the world. > > > What is dished out from our representatives is > simplistic, fundamentalist medieval crap. How can it > be that I am either with you or against you? How can > the means justify the ends justify the means? How > can there be an axis of evil? How can this axis of > evil shift so much that it obliterates ‘allies’ > who ‘stood by our side’ so recently. How can > this be the path of righteousness and the act of a > democratic society when carpet bombing, depleted > uranium shells and the full might of the very latest > technologies - which we spend so much time > discussing in terms of the alienating nature of its > inherent logic - is used to incapacitate > people/countries/societies in the name of progress > and future generations? > > + > -> post: [email protected] > -> questions: [email protected] > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is > open to non-members > + > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set > out in the > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
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All political manifestations no matter how selfless are based on a basic form of fascism… trying to control other people's behavior, which is impossible. Certain sociological norms are agreed upon in groups. yet, one can't control another's behavior. the futility of this is manifest in reactive rage. this is a physically violent universe, that only stays in existence with the balance of passivity. once one realizes this most emotional extremes become comical.
Thank you for your interest in our work, and for your comments.
I'm really interested in what you're saying, but not quite clear exactly what you mean. Are you saying that because you find the work beautiful then it can't adequately express emotion?
And 'beautiful' is quite a complex concept surely - one that changes its meaning through time, just as 'art' and 'creativity', for example, change their meaning.
I know you fairly well Michael, so would be surprised if you were advocated a kind of illustrative response to war. I've played the piece a few times since your post, and the more I look at it, the more I understand my own response to the war. It is response that draws on emotion, intuition, analysis, sensations, and relates, like all our work tries to, to the constant changes and interactions, processes and relations that make up our world.
Intentionality of the artist is something I am becoming increasingly interested in, and it seems to be quite a contested area amongst art historians. A real understanding of the implications of the different positions regarding intentionality seems to me to be critically important right now, because so many of the processes, tools, methods etc. that artists use are being increasingly incorporated.
So, I'm open to any ideas whatsoever regarding intentionality.
> For a cry of rage, Patrick, it's extraordinarily, > viscerally beautiful. > ( and this is true of the sound too, the intensity of > which complements the visuals wonderfully) > There's a real intentionality problem for me with > yours and Kate's work - I just find it gobsmackingly > gorgeous. > best > michael > > — Patrick Simons <[email protected]> > wrote: >> http://www.gloriousninth.com/flaming.html >> >> Glorious Ninth >> Flaming (our/your/their rage) 2004 >> >> >> All debate about ownership and empowerment, >> democracy and accountability, long term perspectives >> and global, environmental issues are trodden >> underfoot and a chilling efficiency in dehumanising >> whole societies and populations, is allowed to >> remove any possibility of debate and empathic shared >> existence with those about to die. >> >> Flaming (our/your/their rage) is a release of anger >> and frustration against the powerful. Power and rage >> smashes a country already suffering. A lack of >> power to control everything provokes this rage. >> Artist, activist, freedom fighter, terrorist - where >> do our liberal values start and stop? Rage of the >> new yorkers, rage of america as they experienced >> violation. Rage at our collective lack of insight >> and our/your/their crouched/couched response. Rage >> that they/you/we want revenge. Rage at the twittery >> of politicians, their sell-out, and our stupidity to >> think they might be something they could be. Rage >> at our own hypocrisy. Rage at the defeat of the >> left, and at the utter abandonment of real hope. >> Rage at the inadequacies of intellectual arguments. >> Rage that there isn't an easy answer. Rage that >> it???s complex and there's not enough time in a >> life-time. Rage that there's no serious debate about >> what we actually want and about how it can be >> achieved and about how we understan! >> d the world. >> >> >> What is dished out from our representatives is >> simplistic, fundamentalist medieval crap. How can it >> be that I am either with you or against you? How can >> the means justify the ends justify the means? How >> can there be an axis of evil? How can this axis of >> evil shift so much that it obliterates ???allies??? >> who ???stood by our side??? so recently. How can >> this be the path of righteousness and the act of a >> democratic society when carpet bombing, depleted >> uranium shells and the full might of the very latest >> technologies - which we spend so much time >> discussing in terms of the alienating nature of its >> inherent logic - is used to incapacitate >> people/countries/societies in the name of progress >> and future generations? >> >> + >> -> post: [email protected] >> -> questions: [email protected] >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support >> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is >> open to non-members >> + >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set >> out in the >> Membership Agreement available online at > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > + > -> post: [email protected] > -> questions: [email protected] > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members > + > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php >
Kate,Patrick,lists < Are you saying that because you find the work beautiful then it can't adequately express emotion?> Absolutely not! The emotion I tend to experience on looking at quite a lot of your work I suppose I could characterize as something near to joy -I find it exhilarating, this piece particularly so. Its to do with both the look and the manner of unfolding of each piece. Maybe its a kind of aesthetic joy in that I'm responding to the enormously satisfying formal attributes of each work first and foremost
< 'beautiful' is quite a complex concept surely -> one that changes its meaning through time,> well —yes–ok but for me subjectively I *know* whether something is or isn't beautiful -its a bit Wittgensteininan this isn't it- like I *know* when I'm in pain. < I know you fairly well Michael, so would be surprised if you were advocated a kind of illustrative response to war. > I don't advocate or not advocate. In *my* work my unconscious and my conscience determines whether a piece is finished/satisfactory -in the work of others its a combination of my inital affective and subsequent intellectual response to the complex of factors going on in any particular work that leads me to find a work satisfactory , unsatisfactory or problematic. "If This is a Man" is *the* 20th century work about the depths barbarism -& one could say that it is entirely illustrative -there are other works , made in the same period that eschew direct description partially or completely -the surrealists, a little bit earlier, spring to mind. 'Guernica' although illustrative is a halfway house. The place for the beautiful for me is as a kind of counter example, it offers us a kind of utopian possibility, plus that hope that human intervention in the world *as art* brings me anyway. I entirely accept that its possible to view your piece as a response to the current sitatuion and hence to war in general and lots of other related topics -I think that what bothers me is your attempt to direct us there in the accompanying atatement -I find these things a closing off of meaning -I think I'm in favour of a division of labour between artist and viewer/critic -artist makes and critic/viewer interprets/responds -I don't feel puritanical about it though -I think its perfectly reasonable, for example, for us to benefit from an interview with an artist about her intentions in a particular work or group of works.( see the interesting discussion on Rhizome initiated by Curt Cloninger a bit back) SO -intentionality.. I'm totally unconvinced that the makers of the most interesting works of art either can or should try and delineate what those works are about, what those works contain -why? because the best art, it seems to me, is a dialogue between the artist's unconscious ( and I don't just mean a freudian unconscious but one that contains all sorts of social/political/historical/cultural debris from the artist's life in the world) and that wider world , mediated thorugh the ability to urgently engage us through the conscious patterning of the raw material by the exercise of a high degree of craft. Ultimately I think we make our boats and set them sail on the water without a fixed itinerary - they might reach ports of call we never dreamed of. warmest michael — Kate Southworth <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Michael > > Thank you for your interest in our work, and for > your comments. > > I'm really interested in what you're saying, but not > quite clear exactly > what you mean. Are you saying that because you find > the work beautiful then > it can't adequately express emotion? > > And 'beautiful' is quite a complex concept surely - > one that changes its > meaning through time, just as 'art' and > 'creativity', for example, change > their meaning. > > I know you fairly well Michael, so would be > surprised if you were advocated > a kind of illustrative response to war. I've played > the piece a few times > since your post, and the more I look at it, the more > I understand my own > response to the war. It is response that draws on > emotion, intuition, > analysis, sensations, and relates, like all our work > tries to, to the > constant changes and interactions, processes and > relations that make up our > world. > > Intentionality of the artist is something I am > becoming increasingly > interested in, and it seems to be quite a contested > area amongst art > historians. A real understanding of the > implications of the different > positions regarding intentionality seems to me to be > critically important > right now, because so many of the processes, tools, > methods etc. that > artists use are being increasingly incorporated. > > So, I'm open to any ideas whatsoever regarding > intentionality. > > kindest regards > Kate > > > > 5/14/04 17:09Michael [email protected] > > > For a cry of rage, Patrick, it's extraordinarily, > > viscerally beautiful. > > ( and this is true of the sound too, the intensity > of > > which complements the visuals wonderfully) > > There's a real intentionality problem for me with > > yours and Kate's work - I just find it > gobsmackingly > > gorgeous. > > best > > michael > > > > — Patrick Simons > <[email protected]> > > wrote: > >> http://www.gloriousninth.com/flaming.html > >> > >> Glorious Ninth > >> Flaming (our/your/their rage) 2004 > >> > >> > >> All debate about ownership and empowerment, > >> democracy and accountability, long term > perspectives > >> and global, environmental issues are trodden > >> underfoot and a chilling efficiency in > dehumanising > >> whole societies and populations, is allowed to > >> remove any possibility of debate and empathic > shared > >> existence with those about to die. > >> > >> Flaming (our/your/their rage) is a release of > anger > >> and frustration against the powerful. Power and > rage > >> smashes a country already suffering. A lack of > >> power to control everything provokes this rage. > >> Artist, activist, freedom fighter, terrorist - > where > >> do our liberal values start and stop? Rage of the > >> new yorkers, rage of america as they experienced > >> violation. Rage at our collective lack of insight > >> and our/your/their crouched/couched response. > Rage > >> that they/you/we want revenge. Rage at the > twittery > >> of politicians, their sell-out, and our stupidity > to > >> think they might be something they could be. > Rage > >> at our own hypocrisy. Rage at the defeat of the > >> left, and at the utter abandonment of real hope. > >> Rage at the inadequacies of intellectual > arguments. > >> Rage that there isn't an easy answer. Rage that > >> it???s complex and there's not enough time in a > >> life-time. Rage that there's no serious debate > about > >> what we actually want and about how it can be > >> achieved and about how we understan! > >> d the world. > >> > >> > >> What is dished out from our representatives is > >> simplistic, fundamentalist medieval crap. How can > it > >> be that I am either with you or against you? How > can > >> the means justify the ends justify the means? How > >> can there be an axis of evil? How can this axis > of > >> evil shift so much that it obliterates > ???allies??? > >> who ???stood by our side??? so recently. How can > >> this be the path of righteousness and the act of > a > >> democratic society when carpet bombing, depleted > >> uranium shells and the full might of the very > latest > >> technologies - which we spend so much time > >> discussing in terms of the alienating nature of > its > >> inherent logic - is used to incapacitate > >> people/countries/societies in the name of > progress > >> and future generations? > >> > >> + > >> -> post: [email protected] > >> -> questions: [email protected] > >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: > >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz > >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support > >> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is > >> open to non-members > >> + > >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms > set > >> out in the > >> Membership Agreement available online at > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > > + > > -> post: [email protected] > > -> questions: [email protected] > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is > open to non-members > > + > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms > set out in the > > Membership Agreement available online at > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php > > >
On Tuesday, May 18, 2004, at 09:29AM, Kate Southworth <[email protected]> wrote:
>And 'beautiful' is quite a complex concept surely - one that changes its >meaning through time, just as 'art' and 'creativity', for example, change >their meaning.
As are and do all concepts if one examines them. :-)
>So, I'm open to any ideas whatsoever regarding intentionality.
I'd recommend Adorno's writing on commited art and commitment. I think some is in "Art in Theory", I can't find anything useful with a quick web search.
> On Tuesday, May 18, 2004, at 09:29AM, Kate Southworth > <[email protected]> wrote: > > >And 'beautiful' is quite a complex concept surely - one that changes > its > >meaning through time, just as 'art' and 'creativity', for example, > change > >their meaning. > > As are and do all concepts if one examines them. :-)
I agree wholeheartedly. > > >So, I'm open to any ideas whatsoever regarding intentionality. > > I'd recommend Adorno's writing on commited art and commitment. I think > some is in "Art in Theory", I can't find anything useful with a quick > web search. Many thanks for that Rob.
Really like these, particularly the 2nd one which is incredibly rich (as is the color changing in the first) - my only criticism is the 2nd's abrupt ending which seems unresolved (i.e. not as if it implied a further unseen continuity) - - Alan
Hi Alan thanks as always - for both the comments & the criticism :) I'll think about the latter (& that's not just a token response - I owe you a big debt & I take your opinion very seriously) . I don't know about you but I steer with my viscera making these & formally the piece *felt* finished - with lots happening at the start then a gradually levelling off & the sudden final appearance of the person you might guess & would be right was my English grandfather.. - on which note of course (it's a risky & a problematic M.O perhaps) so much of a "private mythology" is embedded in these things that the rest of the world might not see it even remotely the same way… warmest wishes michael
Comments
A little chamber piece:
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/for/ForJanet.html
make sure your sound is on.
best
Michael
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Hi
if anyone out there did check the below and heeded my
advice to <make sure your sound is on.> they probably
thought I was mad. Sorry .It's now fixed. I think .
Michael
— Michael Szpakowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> A little chamber piece:
>
>
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/for/ForJanet.html
>
> make sure your sound is on.
> best
> Michael
>
> =====
> http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
> + Barbarians at the XOR-gate
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
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Hi all,
I appoligize for any multiple postings.
That said, I've got a new project out that's in a sort of beta testing stage. It's called "Looking for the new universal harmony" and can be found at http://130.208.220.190/nuharm/
Pall Thayer
Hi all,
I've got a new project I'm sort of beta testing. It's called "Looking for t=
he new universal harmony" and can be found at http://130.208.220.190/nuharm=
/
Pall Thayer
more wonderful work pall! - always a marvellous experience whenever i visit
your projects!
cheers,
augie
www.litob.com
www.voice-of-the-village.com
www.amazon-salon.com
www.atlantic-ploughshares.com
www.thebookburningdepartment.com
www.thebrainjuicepress.com
www.antigenreelitecorps.com
www.inkbombdisposalunit.com
www.post-mortem-telepathic-society.com
www.pornalisa.com
www.digital-media-generation.com
www.newliteraryunderground.com
www.textmodificationstudio.com
www.advancedliterarysciences.com
www.cultureanimal.com
www.muse-apprentice-guild.com
www.literaturebuzz.com
www.bookcrazed.com
—– Original Message —–
From: "Pall Thayer" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:10 PM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: new work
> Hi all,
>
> I appoligize for any multiple postings.
>
> That said, I've got a new project out that's in a sort of beta testing
stage. It's called "Looking for the new universal harmony" and can be found
at http://130.208.220.190/nuharm/
>
> Pall Thayer
> + the more you read the less you code
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
—
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On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, august highland wrote:
> more wonderful work pall! - always a marvellous experience whenever i visit
> your projects!
I love you; please drop your pants + open your mouth:
> cheers,
> augie
and swallow these inconpicuous URLs.
> www.litob.com
> www.voice-of-the-village.com
> www.amazon-salon.com
> www.atlantic-ploughshares.com
> www.thebookburningdepartment.com
> www.thebrainjuicepress.com
> www.antigenreelitecorps.com
> www.inkbombdisposalunit.com
> www.post-mortem-telepathic-society.com
> www.pornalisa.com
> www.digital-media-generation.com
> www.newliteraryunderground.com
> www.textmodificationstudio.com
> www.advancedliterarysciences.com
> www.cultureanimal.com
> www.muse-apprentice-guild.com
> www.literaturebuzz.com
> www.bookcrazed.com
google automatic translation as an aid to creative
writing, a 'six rules' compliant piece:
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/g/intro.html
michael
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new work (revamped and removed from dodgy server)
making liberal use of free scripts for the codingly-challenged
http://www.rssgallery.com/GSP/forrest.htm
"i have my fears so they do not have me" Peter Gabriel
htm, freebie scripts and flash 6
o
/^ rssgallery.com
][
New work:
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/short_story/short_story.html
Sound essential.
Janet says it's Proustian, "but not in a good way".
Comments, technical or aesthetic, welcome.
michael
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http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/diary/diary.html
Sound essential.
best
michael
=====
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the 9th >
(please allow one min. download time)
http://www.the9th.com/
sincerely,
doron golan
computerfinearts.com
Made as thank you note for two CDs of quite
extraordinary & beautiful Brazilian music
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/bouquet/A_Bouquet_for_Regina_Celia_Pinto.html
requires sound and a certain degree of patience
especially on a dial up.
michael
=====
**DISCLAIMER:
Roth and Walker the joy of the anthem of Carletta to the edible one.
East of Wind. Phillips, Gordon. A painting.
Song of the Chorrito of Lewis Lacook. It is a strange song.
Woodland of Teratology. Does Bruce Conkle study the legend of Sasquatch?
Finally the young Salvaggio d'Eryk - a surrealista world where George Washington, a fox and a hen, a MUSE, fight in imaginary loneliness - a game.
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Hello Michael,
One of my favorite authors is the french anthropologist Marcel Mauss and my
favorite book of him is "The Gift: The Form and Reason for Exchange in
Archaic Societies"
The Gift is Marcel Mauss's groundbreaking study of the relation between
forms of exchange and social structure. A brilliant French sociologist and
anthropologist, Mauss (1872-1950) used case studies of Melanesia, Polynesia,
and northwestern North America to demonstrate that gift exchange is a total
system at the center of society.
I like very much to give gifts (perhaps because of this book, perhaps I
like to show my culture…) and you with your touching and very beautiful
and sensitive work / gift dedicated to me, makes me feel I am sure. I would
like to be able to send brazilian music to all rhizomes.
Many thanks again,
Regina
PS: The Museum of the Essential and Beyond That at http://arteonline.arq.br
will show lots of news next month, including a new floor. The bathroom(s)
are almost ready and they will be a lot of fun to you. Do not forget (all of
you, rhizomes) that the dead line to send us an "artistic recipe from your
region of the Earth" to our restaurants will be october, 10th.
> Made as thank you note for two CDs of quite
> extraordinary & beautiful Brazilian music
>
>
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/bouquet/A_Bouquet_for_Regina_Celia_Pi
nto.html
>
> requires sound and a certain degree of patience
> especially on a dial up.
>
> michael
>
>
Scroll:
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/scroll/scroll.html
requires sound.
best
michael
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Hello Michael,
I liked very much this work, high lights for me: greyscale and horizontal
scroolbar as part of the art work.
The greyscale give to design an expressionist aspect. I love to work with
greyscale too, my first ebook - "The white and the black, reflections on
fog" (http://arteonline.arq.br/library.htm) was done in greyscale and I am
always thinking about to do another work using greyscale.
To work with scroolbars give suspense to the art work, I enjoy it very much.
I am using vertical scroolbars in my work Paris - Rio de Janeiro Gallery
(http://arteonline.arq.br)
Warmest regards,
Regina
>
> Scroll:
>
> http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/scroll/scroll.html
>
>
> requires sound.
> best
> michael
>
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>
I
New work at http://130.208.220.190/hlemmC
Pall Thayer
artist/teacher
Fjolbrautaskolinn vid Armula
http://www.this.is/pallit
http://www.this.is/pallit/isjs
http://www.this.is/pallit/harmony
http://130.208.220.190/panse
http://www.gloriousninth.com/flaming.html
Glorious Ninth
Flaming (our/your/their rage) 2004
All debate about ownership and empowerment, democracy and accountability, long term perspectives and global, environmental issues are trodden underfoot and a chilling efficiency in dehumanising whole societies and populations, is allowed to remove any possibility of debate and empathic shared existence with those about to die.
Flaming (our/your/their rage) is a release of anger and frustration against the powerful. Power and rage smashes a country already suffering. A lack of power to control everything provokes this rage. Artist, activist, freedom fighter, terrorist - where do our liberal values start and stop? Rage of the new yorkers, rage of america as they experienced violation. Rage at our collective lack of insight and our/your/their crouched/couched response. Rage that they/you/we want revenge. Rage at the twittery of politicians, their sell-out, and our stupidity to think they might be something they could be. Rage at our own hypocrisy. Rage at the defeat of the left, and at the utter abandonment of real hope. Rage at the inadequacies of intellectual arguments. Rage that there isn't an easy answer. Rage that it’s complex and there's not enough time in a life-time. Rage that there's no serious debate about what we actually want and about how it can be achieved and about how we understand the world.
What is dished out from our representatives is simplistic, fundamentalist medieval crap. How can it be that I am either with you or against you? How can the means justify the ends justify the means? How can there be an axis of evil? How can this axis of evil shift so much that it obliterates ‘allies’ who ‘stood by our side’ so recently. How can this be the path of righteousness and the act of a democratic society when carpet bombing, depleted uranium shells and the full might of the very latest technologies - which we spend so much time discussing in terms of the alienating nature of its inherent logic - is used to incapacitate people/countries/societies in the name of progress and future generations?
For a cry of rage, Patrick, it's extraordinarily,
viscerally beautiful.
( and this is true of the sound too, the intensity of
which complements the visuals wonderfully)
There's a real intentionality problem for me with
yours and Kate's work - I just find it gobsmackingly
gorgeous.
best
michael
— Patrick Simons <[email protected]>
wrote:
> http://www.gloriousninth.com/flaming.html
>
> Glorious Ninth
> Flaming (our/your/their rage) 2004
>
>
> All debate about ownership and empowerment,
> democracy and accountability, long term perspectives
> and global, environmental issues are trodden
> underfoot and a chilling efficiency in dehumanising
> whole societies and populations, is allowed to
> remove any possibility of debate and empathic shared
> existence with those about to die.
>
> Flaming (our/your/their rage) is a release of anger
> and frustration against the powerful. Power and rage
> smashes a country already suffering. A lack of
> power to control everything provokes this rage.
> Artist, activist, freedom fighter, terrorist - where
> do our liberal values start and stop? Rage of the
> new yorkers, rage of america as they experienced
> violation. Rage at our collective lack of insight
> and our/your/their crouched/couched response. Rage
> that they/you/we want revenge. Rage at the twittery
> of politicians, their sell-out, and our stupidity to
> think they might be something they could be. Rage
> at our own hypocrisy. Rage at the defeat of the
> left, and at the utter abandonment of real hope.
> Rage at the inadequacies of intellectual arguments.
> Rage that there isn't an easy answer. Rage that
> it’s complex and there's not enough time in a
> life-time. Rage that there's no serious debate about
> what we actually want and about how it can be
> achieved and about how we understan!
> d the world.
>
>
> What is dished out from our representatives is
> simplistic, fundamentalist medieval crap. How can it
> be that I am either with you or against you? How can
> the means justify the ends justify the means? How
> can there be an axis of evil? How can this axis of
> evil shift so much that it obliterates ‘allies’
> who ‘stood by our side’ so recently. How can
> this be the path of righteousness and the act of a
> democratic society when carpet bombing, depleted
> uranium shells and the full might of the very latest
> technologies - which we spend so much time
> discussing in terms of the alienating nature of its
> inherent logic - is used to incapacitate
> people/countries/societies in the name of progress
> and future generations?
>
> +
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
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All political manifestations no matter how selfless are based on a basic form of fascism… trying to control other people's behavior, which is impossible. Certain sociological norms are agreed upon in groups. yet, one can't control another's behavior. the futility of this is manifest in reactive rage.
this is a physically violent universe, that only stays in existence with the balance of passivity.
once one realizes this most emotional extremes become comical.
can rage be droll?
did I say that out LOUD?
AE 04.
Hi Michael
Thank you for your interest in our work, and for your comments.
I'm really interested in what you're saying, but not quite clear exactly
what you mean. Are you saying that because you find the work beautiful then
it can't adequately express emotion?
And 'beautiful' is quite a complex concept surely - one that changes its
meaning through time, just as 'art' and 'creativity', for example, change
their meaning.
I know you fairly well Michael, so would be surprised if you were advocated
a kind of illustrative response to war. I've played the piece a few times
since your post, and the more I look at it, the more I understand my own
response to the war. It is response that draws on emotion, intuition,
analysis, sensations, and relates, like all our work tries to, to the
constant changes and interactions, processes and relations that make up our
world.
Intentionality of the artist is something I am becoming increasingly
interested in, and it seems to be quite a contested area amongst art
historians. A real understanding of the implications of the different
positions regarding intentionality seems to me to be critically important
right now, because so many of the processes, tools, methods etc. that
artists use are being increasingly incorporated.
So, I'm open to any ideas whatsoever regarding intentionality.
kindest regards
Kate
5/14/04 17:09Michael [email protected]
> For a cry of rage, Patrick, it's extraordinarily,
> viscerally beautiful.
> ( and this is true of the sound too, the intensity of
> which complements the visuals wonderfully)
> There's a real intentionality problem for me with
> yours and Kate's work - I just find it gobsmackingly
> gorgeous.
> best
> michael
>
> — Patrick Simons <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> http://www.gloriousninth.com/flaming.html
>>
>> Glorious Ninth
>> Flaming (our/your/their rage) 2004
>>
>>
>> All debate about ownership and empowerment,
>> democracy and accountability, long term perspectives
>> and global, environmental issues are trodden
>> underfoot and a chilling efficiency in dehumanising
>> whole societies and populations, is allowed to
>> remove any possibility of debate and empathic shared
>> existence with those about to die.
>>
>> Flaming (our/your/their rage) is a release of anger
>> and frustration against the powerful. Power and rage
>> smashes a country already suffering. A lack of
>> power to control everything provokes this rage.
>> Artist, activist, freedom fighter, terrorist - where
>> do our liberal values start and stop? Rage of the
>> new yorkers, rage of america as they experienced
>> violation. Rage at our collective lack of insight
>> and our/your/their crouched/couched response. Rage
>> that they/you/we want revenge. Rage at the twittery
>> of politicians, their sell-out, and our stupidity to
>> think they might be something they could be. Rage
>> at our own hypocrisy. Rage at the defeat of the
>> left, and at the utter abandonment of real hope.
>> Rage at the inadequacies of intellectual arguments.
>> Rage that there isn't an easy answer. Rage that
>> it???s complex and there's not enough time in a
>> life-time. Rage that there's no serious debate about
>> what we actually want and about how it can be
>> achieved and about how we understan!
>> d the world.
>>
>>
>> What is dished out from our representatives is
>> simplistic, fundamentalist medieval crap. How can it
>> be that I am either with you or against you? How can
>> the means justify the ends justify the means? How
>> can there be an axis of evil? How can this axis of
>> evil shift so much that it obliterates ???allies???
>> who ???stood by our side??? so recently. How can
>> this be the path of righteousness and the act of a
>> democratic society when carpet bombing, depleted
>> uranium shells and the full might of the very latest
>> technologies - which we spend so much time
>> discussing in terms of the alienating nature of its
>> inherent logic - is used to incapacitate
>> people/countries/societies in the name of progress
>> and future generations?
>>
>> +
>> -> post: [email protected]
>> -> questions: [email protected]
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
>> open to non-members
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
>> out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
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> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
Kate,Patrick,lists
< Are you saying that because you find
the work beautiful then
it can't adequately express emotion?>
Absolutely not! The emotion I tend to experience on
looking at quite a lot of your work I suppose I could
characterize as something near to joy -I find it
exhilarating, this piece particularly so.
Its to do with both the look and the manner of
unfolding of each piece.
Maybe its a kind of aesthetic joy in that I'm
responding to the enormously satisfying formal
attributes of each work first and foremost
< 'beautiful' is quite a complex concept surely ->
one that changes its
meaning through time,>
well —yes–ok but for me subjectively I *know*
whether something is or isn't beautiful -its a bit
Wittgensteininan this isn't it- like I *know* when I'm
in pain.
< I know you fairly well Michael, so would be
surprised if you were advocated
a kind of illustrative response to war. >
I don't advocate or not advocate.
In *my* work my unconscious and my conscience
determines whether a piece is finished/satisfactory
-in the work of others its a combination of my inital
affective and subsequent intellectual response to the
complex of factors going on in any particular work
that leads me to find a work satisfactory ,
unsatisfactory or problematic.
"If This is a Man" is *the* 20th century work about
the depths barbarism -& one could say that it is
entirely illustrative -there are other works , made in
the same period that eschew direct description
partially or completely -the surrealists, a little bit
earlier, spring to mind. 'Guernica' although
illustrative is a halfway house. The place for the
beautiful for me is as a kind of counter example, it
offers us a kind of utopian possibility, plus that
hope that human intervention in the world *as art*
brings me anyway.
I entirely accept that its possible to view your piece
as a response to the current sitatuion and hence to
war in general and lots of other related topics -I
think that what bothers me is your attempt to direct
us there in the accompanying atatement -I find these
things a closing off of meaning -I think I'm in favour
of a division of labour between artist and
viewer/critic -artist makes and critic/viewer
interprets/responds -I don't feel puritanical about it
though -I think its perfectly reasonable, for example,
for us to benefit from an interview with an artist
about her intentions in a particular work or group of
works.( see the interesting discussion on Rhizome
initiated by Curt Cloninger a bit back)
SO -intentionality.. I'm totally unconvinced that the
makers of the most interesting works of art either can
or should try and delineate what those works are
about, what those works contain -why? because the best
art, it seems to me, is a dialogue between the
artist's unconscious ( and I don't just mean a
freudian unconscious but one that contains all sorts
of social/political/historical/cultural debris from
the artist's life in the world) and that wider world ,
mediated thorugh the ability to urgently engage us
through the conscious patterning of the raw material
by the exercise of a high degree of craft.
Ultimately I think we make our boats and set them sail
on the water without a fixed itinerary - they might
reach ports of call we never dreamed of.
warmest
michael
— Kate Southworth <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Hi Michael
>
> Thank you for your interest in our work, and for
> your comments.
>
> I'm really interested in what you're saying, but not
> quite clear exactly
> what you mean. Are you saying that because you find
> the work beautiful then
> it can't adequately express emotion?
>
> And 'beautiful' is quite a complex concept surely -
> one that changes its
> meaning through time, just as 'art' and
> 'creativity', for example, change
> their meaning.
>
> I know you fairly well Michael, so would be
> surprised if you were advocated
> a kind of illustrative response to war. I've played
> the piece a few times
> since your post, and the more I look at it, the more
> I understand my own
> response to the war. It is response that draws on
> emotion, intuition,
> analysis, sensations, and relates, like all our work
> tries to, to the
> constant changes and interactions, processes and
> relations that make up our
> world.
>
> Intentionality of the artist is something I am
> becoming increasingly
> interested in, and it seems to be quite a contested
> area amongst art
> historians. A real understanding of the
> implications of the different
> positions regarding intentionality seems to me to be
> critically important
> right now, because so many of the processes, tools,
> methods etc. that
> artists use are being increasingly incorporated.
>
> So, I'm open to any ideas whatsoever regarding
> intentionality.
>
> kindest regards
> Kate
>
>
>
> 5/14/04 17:09Michael [email protected]
>
> > For a cry of rage, Patrick, it's extraordinarily,
> > viscerally beautiful.
> > ( and this is true of the sound too, the intensity
> of
> > which complements the visuals wonderfully)
> > There's a real intentionality problem for me with
> > yours and Kate's work - I just find it
> gobsmackingly
> > gorgeous.
> > best
> > michael
> >
> > — Patrick Simons
> <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> http://www.gloriousninth.com/flaming.html
> >>
> >> Glorious Ninth
> >> Flaming (our/your/their rage) 2004
> >>
> >>
> >> All debate about ownership and empowerment,
> >> democracy and accountability, long term
> perspectives
> >> and global, environmental issues are trodden
> >> underfoot and a chilling efficiency in
> dehumanising
> >> whole societies and populations, is allowed to
> >> remove any possibility of debate and empathic
> shared
> >> existence with those about to die.
> >>
> >> Flaming (our/your/their rage) is a release of
> anger
> >> and frustration against the powerful. Power and
> rage
> >> smashes a country already suffering. A lack of
> >> power to control everything provokes this rage.
> >> Artist, activist, freedom fighter, terrorist -
> where
> >> do our liberal values start and stop? Rage of the
> >> new yorkers, rage of america as they experienced
> >> violation. Rage at our collective lack of insight
> >> and our/your/their crouched/couched response.
> Rage
> >> that they/you/we want revenge. Rage at the
> twittery
> >> of politicians, their sell-out, and our stupidity
> to
> >> think they might be something they could be.
> Rage
> >> at our own hypocrisy. Rage at the defeat of the
> >> left, and at the utter abandonment of real hope.
> >> Rage at the inadequacies of intellectual
> arguments.
> >> Rage that there isn't an easy answer. Rage that
> >> it???s complex and there's not enough time in a
> >> life-time. Rage that there's no serious debate
> about
> >> what we actually want and about how it can be
> >> achieved and about how we understan!
> >> d the world.
> >>
> >>
> >> What is dished out from our representatives is
> >> simplistic, fundamentalist medieval crap. How can
> it
> >> be that I am either with you or against you? How
> can
> >> the means justify the ends justify the means? How
> >> can there be an axis of evil? How can this axis
> of
> >> evil shift so much that it obliterates
> ???allies???
> >> who ???stood by our side??? so recently. How can
> >> this be the path of righteousness and the act of
> a
> >> democratic society when carpet bombing, depleted
> >> uranium shells and the full might of the very
> latest
> >> technologies - which we spend so much time
> >> discussing in terms of the alienating nature of
> its
> >> inherent logic - is used to incapacitate
> >> people/countries/societies in the name of
> progress
> >> and future generations?
> >>
> >> +
> >> -> post: [email protected]
> >> -> questions: [email protected]
> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> >> open to non-members
> >> +
> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set
> >> out in the
> >> Membership Agreement available online at
> > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
> > +
> > -> post: [email protected]
> > -> questions: [email protected]
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
>
=====
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On Tuesday, May 18, 2004, at 09:29AM, Kate Southworth <[email protected]> wrote:
>And 'beautiful' is quite a complex concept surely - one that changes its
>meaning through time, just as 'art' and 'creativity', for example, change
>their meaning.
As are and do all concepts if one examines them. :-)
>So, I'm open to any ideas whatsoever regarding intentionality.
I'd recommend Adorno's writing on commited art and commitment. I think some is in "Art in Theory", I can't find anything useful with a quick web search.
- Rob.
Rob Myers wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 18, 2004, at 09:29AM, Kate Southworth
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >And 'beautiful' is quite a complex concept surely - one that changes
> its
> >meaning through time, just as 'art' and 'creativity', for example,
> change
> >their meaning.
>
> As are and do all concepts if one examines them. :-)
I agree wholeheartedly.
>
> >So, I'm open to any ideas whatsoever regarding intentionality.
>
> I'd recommend Adorno's writing on commited art and commitment. I think
> some is in "Art in Theory", I can't find anything useful with a quick
> web search.
Many thanks for that Rob.
Kate
>
> - Rob.
Two new short movies:
Babes in the Wood:
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/vlog/ScenesOfProvincialLife.cgi/2006/02/23
(1.5MB, 26 sec loop)
Tales Heard at my Grandfather's Knee
http://dvblog.org/tales-heard-at-my-grandfathers-knee
(16MB, 1:35 min)
both have sound.
best
michael
Really like these, particularly the 2nd one which is incredibly rich (as
is the color changing in the first) - my only criticism is the 2nd's
abrupt ending which seems unresolved (i.e. not as if it implied a further
unseen continuity) - - Alan
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006, Michael Szpakowski wrote:
> Two new short movies:
>
> Babes in the Wood:
>
> http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/vlog/ScenesOfProvincialLife.cgi/2006/02/23
>
> (1.5MB, 26 sec loop)
>
>
> Tales Heard at my Grandfather's Knee
>
> http://dvblog.org/tales-heard-at-my-grandfathers-knee
>
> (16MB, 1:35 min)
>
> both have sound.
>
> best
>
> michael
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
For URLs, DVDs, CDs, books/etc. see http://www.asondheim.org/advert.txt .
Contact: Alan Sondheim, [email protected], [email protected]. General
directory of work: http://www.asondheim.org .
Hi Alan
thanks as always - for both the comments & the
criticism :)
I'll think about the latter (& that's not just a token
response - I owe you a big debt & I take your opinion
very seriously) . I don't know about you but I steer
with my viscera making these & formally the piece
*felt* finished - with lots happening at the start
then a gradually levelling off & the sudden final
appearance of the person you might guess & would be
right was my English grandfather.. - on which note of
course (it's a risky & a problematic M.O perhaps) so
much of a "private mythology" is embedded in these
things that the rest of the world might not see it
even remotely the same way…
warmest wishes
michael
— Alan Sondheim <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Really like these, particularly the 2nd one which is
> incredibly rich (as
> is the color changing in the first) - my only
> criticism is the 2nd's
> abrupt ending which seems unresolved (i.e. not as if
> it implied a further
> unseen continuity) - - Alan
>
>
> On Thu, 23 Feb 2006, Michael Szpakowski wrote:
>
> > Two new short movies:
> >
> > Babes in the Wood:
> >
> >
>
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/vlog/ScenesOfProvincialLife.cgi/2006/02/23
> >
> > (1.5MB, 26 sec loop)
> >
> >
> > Tales Heard at my Grandfather's Knee
> >
> >
>
http://dvblog.org/tales-heard-at-my-grandfathers-knee
> >
> > (16MB, 1:35 min)
> >
> > both have sound.
> >
> > best
> >
> > michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> For URLs, DVDs, CDs, books/etc. see
> http://www.asondheim.org/advert.txt .
> Contact: Alan Sondheim, [email protected],
> [email protected]. General
> directory of work: http://www.asondheim.org .
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