Call for Participation: Experimental Exhibition - "Summer of MySpace"

Hi Patrick,

Although this sounds like a great idea for the exploration of social
networking and it's relationship to net art, I have to take issue with
asking people to post "art". I have had several friends who are illustrators
and artists remove the bulk of their art work from MySpace because of a
recent change to the Terms and Conditions which can be found here:
http://collect.myspace.com/misc/terms.html?z=1

Basically it grants MySpace all of the rights to any "Content" posted to
MySpace as long as it is on the MySpace servers.

1. *Proprietary Rights in Content on MySpace.com.*
1. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content,
messages, text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, profiles, works=
of
authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") on
or through
the Services, you hereby grant to MySpace.com, a non-exclusive,
fully-paid and royalty-free, worldwide license (with the right
to sublicense
through unlimited levels of sublicensees) to use, copy, modify, adapt,
translate, publicly perform, publicly display, store, reproduce,
transmit,
and distribute such Content on and through the Services. This
license will
terminate at the time you remove such Content from the Services. You
represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on =
or
through the Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license=
set
forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or thr=
ough
the Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights,
copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person.
You agree to
pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owing any
person by reason
of any Content posted by you to or through the Services.

I am a big believer in the Creative Commons lisencing and open source art
and code. I still maintain my profile on the site but I no longer post any
creative works of writing, art, or sound because I feel that these terms are
a bit unreasonable.

This might make the experiment of using MySpace as an art venue more
interesting or posit more problems.

How does this list feel about soical networking sites and lisencing issues
of creative works and images associated with them?

Thanks,
Christine


On 5/21/06, patrick lichty <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Call for Participation:
>
> "The Summer of MySpace"

Pretty scary license. Especially the part where they reserve the
right to "sublicense through unlimited levels of sublicensees".
However, I'm not sure that it's really much to worry about and
perhaps not even unreasonable (from a very corporate point of view).
They also say, "…and distribute such Content on and through the
Services." This sounds to me like they are only reserving the right
to use material on MySpace _within_ MySpace to make sure they don't
get sued for posting your image on the splash page as one of the
"cool new people", or something along similar lines. So, I'm not sure
that it's quite correct to say that this license grants MySpace "all
of the rights" to content posted there.

Pall

On 24.5.2006, at 10:00, Christine Hart wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> Although this sounds like a great idea for the exploration of
> social networking and it's relationship to net art, I have to take
> issue with asking people to post "art". I have had several friends
> who are illustrators and artists remove the bulk of their art work
> from MySpace because of a recent change to the Terms and Conditions
> which can be found here: http://collect.myspace.com/misc/terms.html?
> z=1
>
> Basically it grants MySpace all of the rights to any "Content"
> posted to MySpace as long as it is on the MySpace servers.
> Proprietary Rights in Content on MySpace.com.
> By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content, messages,
> text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, profiles, works of
> authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") on or
> through the Services, you hereby grant to MySpace.com, a non-
> exclusive, fully-paid and royalty-free, worldwide license (with the
> right to sublicense through unlimited levels of sublicensees) to
> use, copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly
> display, store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such Content on
> and through the Services. This license will terminate at the time
> you remove such Content from the Services. You represent and
> warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through
> the Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set
> forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or
> through the Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity
> rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any
> person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other
> monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to
> or through the Services.
> I am a big believer in the Creative Commons lisencing and open
> source art and code. I still maintain my profile on the site but I
> no longer post any creative works of writing, art, or sound because
> I feel that these terms are a bit unreasonable.
>
> This might make the experiment of using MySpace as an art venue
> more interesting or posit more problems.
>
> How does this list feel about soical networking sites and lisencing
> issues of creative works and images associated with them?
>
> Thanks,
> Christine
>
>
> On 5/21/06, patrick lichty <[email protected]> wrote:
> Call for Participation:
>
> "The Summer of MySpace"

I'd agree with Pall: the key term here is "non-exclusive" – they basically
are covering their asses so you can't turn around and sue them if, say,
someone grabs your image off MySpace and makes a derivative work ;-) It's
essentially a license to distribute, which is what you want them to do:
distribute your work via the internet. i don't find it scary at all (just
thorough legalese) and not at all at odds with a CC license.

On 5/24/06, Pall Thayer <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Pretty scary license. Especially the part where they reserve the
> right to "sublicense through unlimited levels of sublicensees".
> However, I'm not sure that it's really much to worry about and
> perhaps not even unreasonable (from a very corporate point of view).
> They also say, "…and distribute such Content on and through the
> Services." This sounds to me like they are only reserving the right
> to use material on MySpace _within_ MySpace to make sure they don't
> get sued for posting your image on the splash page as one of the
> "cool new people", or something along similar lines. So, I'm not sure
> that it's quite correct to say that this license grants MySpace "all
> of the rights" to content posted there.
>
> Pall
>
> On 24.5.2006, at 10:00, Christine Hart wrote:
>
> > Hi Patrick,
> >
> > Although this sounds like a great idea for the exploration of
> > social networking and it's relationship to net art, I have to take
> > issue with asking people to post "art". I have had several friends
> > who are illustrators and artists remove the bulk of their art work
> > from MySpace because of a recent change to the Terms and Conditions
> > which can be found here: http://collect.myspace.com/misc/terms.html?
> > z=1
> >
> > Basically it grants MySpace all of the rights to any "Content"
> > posted to MySpace as long as it is on the MySpace servers.
> > Proprietary Rights in Content on MySpace.com.
> > By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content, messages,
> > text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, profiles, works of
> > authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") on or
> > through the Services, you hereby grant to MySpace.com, a non-
> > exclusive, fully-paid and royalty-free, worldwide license (with the
> > right to sublicense through unlimited levels of sublicensees) to
> > use, copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly
> > display, store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such Content on
> > and through the Services. This license will terminate at the time
> > you remove such Content from the Services. You represent and
> > warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through
> > the Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set
> > forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or
> > through the Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity
> > rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any
> > person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other
> > monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to
> > or through the Services.
> > I am a big believer in the Creative Commons lisencing and open
> > source art and code. I still maintain my profile on the site but I
> > no longer post any creative works of writing, art, or sound because
> > I feel that these terms are a bit unreasonable.
> >
> > This might make the experiment of using MySpace as an art venue
> > more interesting or posit more problems.
> >
> > How does this list feel about soical networking sites and lisencing
> > issues of creative works and images associated with them?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Christine
> >
> >
> > On 5/21/06, patrick lichty <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Call for Participation:
> >
> > "The Summer of MySpace"

Scary Stuff.


On 5/24/06 10:00 AM, "Christine Hart" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> Although this sounds like a great idea for the exploration of social
> networking and it's relationship to net art, I have to take issue with as=
king
> people to post "art". I have had several friends who are illustrators and
> artists remove the bulk of their art work from MySpace because of a recent
> change to the Terms and Conditions which can be found here:
> http://collect.myspace.com/misc/terms.html?z=1
>
> Basically it grants MySpace all of the rights to any "Content" posted to
> MySpace as long as it is on the MySpace servers.
> 1. Proprietary Rights in Content on MySpace.com.
>> 1. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content, messages, text,
>> files, images, photos, video, sounds, profiles, works of authorship, or =
any
>> other materials (collectively, "Content") on or through the Services, you
>> hereby grant to MySpace.com, a non-exclusive, fully-paid and royalty-fre=
e,
>> worldwide license (with the right to sublicense through unlimited levels=
of
>> sublicensees) to use, copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform,
>> publicly display, store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such Conten=
t on
>> and through the Services. This license will terminate at the time you re=
move
>> such Content from the Services. You represent and warrant that: (i) you =
own
>> the Content posted by you on or through the Services or otherwise have t=
he
>> right to grant the license set forth in this section, and (ii) the posti=
ng of
>> your Content on or through the Services does not violate the privacy rig=
hts,
>> publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any
>> person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies o=
wing
>> any person by reason of any Content posted by you to or through the Serv=
ices.
> I am a big believer in the Creative Commons lisencing and open source art=
and
> code. I still maintain my profile on the site but I no longer post any
> creative works of writing, art, or sound because I feel that these terms =
are a
> bit unreasonable.
>
> This might make the experiment of using MySpace as an art venue more
> interesting or posit more problems.
>
> How does this list feel about soical networking sites and lisencing issue=
s of
> creative works and images associated with them?
>
> Thanks,
> Christine
>
>
> On 5/21/06, patrick lichty <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Call for Participation:
>>
>> "The Summer of MySpace"

Seems like Pall and I agree.
Always beware of the corporation.


On 5/24/06 10:26 AM, "Pall Thayer" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Pretty scary license. Especially the part where they reserve the
> right to "sublicense through unlimited levels of sublicensees".
> However, I'm not sure that it's really much to worry about and
> perhaps not even unreasonable (from a very corporate point of view).
> They also say, "…and distribute such Content on and through the
> Services." This sounds to me like they are only reserving the right
> to use material on MySpace _within_ MySpace to make sure they don't
> get sued for posting your image on the splash page as one of the
> "cool new people", or something along similar lines. So, I'm not sure
> that it's quite correct to say that this license grants MySpace "all
> of the rights" to content posted there.
>
> Pall
>
> On 24.5.2006, at 10:00, Christine Hart wrote:
>
>> Hi Patrick,
>>
>> Although this sounds like a great idea for the exploration of
>> social networking and it's relationship to net art, I have to take
>> issue with asking people to post "art". I have had several friends
>> who are illustrators and artists remove the bulk of their art work
>> from MySpace because of a recent change to the Terms and Conditions
>> which can be found here: http://collect.myspace.com/misc/terms.html?
>> z=1
>>
>> Basically it grants MySpace all of the rights to any "Content"
>> posted to MySpace as long as it is on the MySpace servers.
>> Proprietary Rights in Content on MySpace.com.
>> By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content, messages,
>> text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, profiles, works of
>> authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") on or
>> through the Services, you hereby grant to MySpace.com, a non-
>> exclusive, fully-paid and royalty-free, worldwide license (with the
>> right to sublicense through unlimited levels of sublicensees) to
>> use, copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly
>> display, store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such Content on
>> and through the Services. This license will terminate at the time
>> you remove such Content from the Services. You represent and
>> warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through
>> the Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set
>> forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or
>> through the Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity
>> rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any
>> person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other
>> monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to
>> or through the Services.
>> I am a big believer in the Creative Commons lisencing and open
>> source art and code. I still maintain my profile on the site but I
>> no longer post any creative works of writing, art, or sound because
>> I feel that these terms are a bit unreasonable.
>>
>> This might make the experiment of using MySpace as an art venue
>> more interesting or posit more problems.
>>
>> How does this list feel about soical networking sites and lisencing
>> issues of creative works and images associated with them?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Christine
>>
>>
>> On 5/21/06, patrick lichty <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Call for Participation:
>>
>> "The Summer of MySpace"

Hi all,

Everyone probably knows that myspace was bought by Fox (story at
http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/17571) and there has been some
discussion/anxiety from music artists about the purchase and license
(see
feed://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/myspacefox-artists-beware/feed/).

Now this is an UNCONFIRMED rumor that I heard from a professor at UC
Berkeley (who will remain unnamed in case this is totally incorrect)
that Fox is either using or has plans to data-mine myspace users'
blogs and posts to discover topical and timely interests of the youth
audience that they can quickly work into Fox products like their TV
sitcoms. The license mentioned earlier of course would free
Fox/myspace from any user claiming "hey, that was my idea!", etc. The
following article does not confirm this rumor, but the last couple of
lines suggest that someone may think along these lines
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4697671.stm). Again,
UNCONFIRMED, but has anyone else on this list heard anything similar?

Besides the Fox angle above, the license is certainly not great, but
tolerable to some. I guess it would have the equivalent of a
Creative Commons license that :
a) allowed commercial use
b) allowed modification of work or creation of derivatives
b) did not require share and share-alike
c) did not require attribution…

…come to think of it, I don't think there is a CC license that
allows for non-attribution, is there?


Richard Rinehart
—————
Director of Digital Media
Berkeley Art Museum/Pacific Film Archive
bampfa.berkeley.edu
—————
University of California, Berkeley
—————
2625 Durant Ave.
Berkeley, CA, 94720-2250
ph.510.642.5240
fx.510.642.5269


At 10:54 AM -0400 5/24/06, [email protected] wrote:
>I'd agree with Pall: the key term here is "non-exclusive" – they
>basically are covering their asses so you can't turn around and sue
>them if, say, someone grabs your image off MySpace and makes a
>derivative work ;-) It's essentially a license to distribute, which
>is what you want them to do: distribute your work via the internet.
>i don't find it scary at all (just thorough legalese) and not at all
>at odds with a CC license.
>
>On 5/24/06, Pall Thayer
><<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Pretty scary license. Especially the part where they reserve the
>right to "sublicense through unlimited levels of sublicensees".
>However, I'm not sure that it's really much to worry about and
>perhaps not even unreasonable (from a very corporate point of view).
>They also say, "…and distribute such Content on and through the
>Services." This sounds to me like they are only reserving the right
>to use material on MySpace _within_ MySpace to make sure they don't
>get sued for posting your image on the splash page as one of the
>"cool new people", or something along similar lines. So, I'm not sure
>that it's quite correct to say that this license grants MySpace "all
>of the rights" to content posted there.
>
>Pall
>
>On 24.5.2006, at 10:00, Christine Hart wrote:
>
>> Hi Patrick,
>>
>> Although this sounds like a great idea for the exploration of
>> social networking and it's relationship to net art, I have to take
>> issue with asking people to post "art". I have had several friends
>> who are illustrators and artists remove the bulk of their art work
>> from MySpace because of a recent change to the Terms and Conditions
>> which can be found here:
>><http://collect.myspace.com/misc/terms.html>http://collect.myspace.com/misc/terms.html?
>> z=1
>>
>> Basically it grants MySpace all of the rights to any "Content"
>> posted to MySpace as long as it is on the MySpace servers.
>> Proprietary Rights in Content on MySpace.com.
>> By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content, messages,
>> text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, profiles, works of
>> authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") on or
> > through the Services, you hereby grant to MySpace.com, a non-
>> exclusive, fully-paid and royalty-free, worldwide license (with the
>> right to sublicense through unlimited levels of sublicensees) to
>> use, copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly
>> display, store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such Content on
>> and through the Services. This license will terminate at the time
>> you remove such Content from the Services. You represent and
>> warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through
>> the Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set
>> forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or
>> through the Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity
>> rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any
>> person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other
>> monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to
>> or through the Services.
>> I am a big believer in the Creative Commons lisencing and open
>> source art and code. I still maintain my profile on the site but I
>> no longer post any creative works of writing, art, or sound because
>> I feel that these terms are a bit unreasonable.
>>
>> This might make the experiment of using MySpace as an art venue
>> more interesting or posit more problems.
>>
>> How does this list feel about soical networking sites and lisencing
>> issues of creative works and images associated with them?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Christine
>>
>>
>> On 5/21/06, patrick lichty <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
>> Call for Participation:
>>
>> "The Summer of MySpace" - an online exhibition
>>
>> Curated by Patrick Lichty - The Curator of MySpace
>>
>> <http://www.myspace.com/summercurator> http://www.myspace.com/summercurator
>>
>> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
>>
>>
>> Friend Request Dates - 5/21/06 - 8/31/06
>>
>>
>> MySpace is a cultural phenomenon. Millions of people have poured
>> their lives into this online community, making it the most
>> successful to date, surpassing Friendster, Xuqa, and Facebook.
>> Millions of hours of creative time by its users, aspiring bands,
>> models, and magazines have been placed into this online agora. But
>> is MySpace a creative space?
>>
>> "Summer of MySpace" asks a number of questions about this
>> burgeoning hang-out haven:
>>
>>
>> Has MySpace become a new art medium or New Media/Net artform, or
>> can it be used as one?
>>
>> Can the selection of 'friends' and their spaces be called a form of
>> curation?
>>
>> In making profiles, do we make ourselves into art objects?
>>
>> What does it mean to ask to be a 'friend'? Is a form of curation?
>>
>> Is MySpace merely a space for the colonization of youth culture by
>> corporations and consumer culture?
>>
>> Is MySpace's success representative of a truly new form of community?
>>
>> What other questions about relationships, society, art, and culture
>> does MySpace present?
>> Is MySpace limited by the way it's made, or can we subvert the
>> profile for our own desires?
>>
>>
>> "Summer of MySpace" fires a probe into this unknown territory,
>> asking all these questions, and setting up a stage for the Internet
>> Summer of Love of the 00's.
>>
>>
>> Come, be my friend. Let me show you as a shiny new piece of art.
>> Let us curate and be curated, befriend and be befriended in this
>> brave new land of joy and irony.
>>
>>
>> Let's see what happens. Get on the magic bus.
>>
>>
>> Submission Procedure:
>>
>> All you need to do is to set up a profile, make it into an
>> 'artwork', make yourself into an 'artwork', make a place for your
>> 'artwork', and ask me to be your friend. That's what curation is
>> all about, isn't it? The rest is up to us!
>>
>>
>> Peace, all!
>>
>> -Patrick Lichty
>> (The Curator of MySpace)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>–
>Pall Thayer
><mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
><http://www.this.is/pallit>http://www.this.is/pallit
>
>
>
>
>
>+
>-> post: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
>-> questions: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
>-> subscribe/unsubscribe:
><http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz>http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>-> give: <http://rhizome.org/support>http://rhizome.org/support
>+
>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>Membership Agreement available online at
><http://rhizome.org/info/29.php> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
>
>
>–
>530 laguardia place #5, nyc 10012
><http://joygarnett.com>http://joygarnett.com


–


Richard Rinehart
—————
Director of Digital Media
Berkeley Art Museum/Pacific Film Archive
bampfa.berkeley.edu
—————
University of California, Berkeley
—————
2625 Durant Ave.
Berkeley, CA, 94720-2250
ph.510.642.5240
fx.510.642.5269

On May 24, 2006, at 9:00 AM, Christine Hart wrote:
> >I have had several friends who are illustrators and artists remove
> the bulk of their art work
> >from MySpace because of a recent change to the Terms and
> Conditions which can be found here: >http://collect.myspace.com/
> misc/terms.html?z=1

these terms of use are actually very similar to the Rhizome.org
Member Agreement:

http://rhizome.org/info/member_agreement.rhiz

[+/or] the Rhizome.org User Agreement:

http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

> >Basically it grants MySpace all of the rights to any "Content"
> posted to MySpace as long as it is on the >MySpace servers.

perhaps your phrasing of "all of the rights to any "Content" posted"
makes these terms sound too expansive b/c they are in fact "non-
exclusive".

> Proprietary Rights in Content on MySpace.com.
> By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content, messages,
> text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, profiles, works of
> authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") on or
> through the Services, you hereby grant to MySpace.com, a non-
> exclusive, fully-paid and royalty-free, worldwide license (with the
> right to sublicense through unlimited levels of sublicensees) to
> use, copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly
> display, store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such Content on
> and through the Services. This license will terminate at the time
> you remove such Content from the Services. You represent and
> warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through
> the Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set
> forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or
> through the Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity
> rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any
> person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other
> monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to
> or through the Services.

+ by comparison how different do the terms below sound?

"You hereby grant Rhizome.org a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-
free, perpetual license to: (i) store Your Content on Rhizome.org's
servers; (ii) distribute Your Content on the Rhizome.org web site and
through email lists; and (iii) reproduce, publish, perform, display,
adapt, distribute or otherwise make available Your Content in web
sites, books, CD-ROMs or any other form or medium whatsoever, whether
now known or as may hereafter be developed.

IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO GRANT RHIZOME.ORG THE RIGHT TO REPRODUCE,
PUBLISH, PERFORM, DISPLAY, ADAPT, DISTRIBUTE OR OTHERWISE MAKE
AVAILABLE YOUR CONTENT EXCEPT ON THE RHIZOME.ORG WEB SITE AND EMAIL
LISTS, YOU MUST SO INDICATE BY INCLUDING THE FOLLOWING LANGUAGE AT
THE END OF YOUR CONTENT WHEN YOU POST OR OTHERWISE SUBMIT IT TO
RHIZOME.ORG: "NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION EXCEPT ON RHIZOME.ORG WEBSITE AND
EMAIL LISTS."

Rhizome.org reserves the right to: (a) edit, adapt or otherwise make
changes to Your Content; (b) not include Your Content in the
Rhizome.org web site or email lists; and © remove some or all of
Your Content, without notification, from our servers, from the
Rhizome.org web site and from any other form or media."

> >I am a big believer in the Creative Commons lisencing and open
> source art and code.
> >I still maintain my profile on the site but I no longer post any
> creative works of writing, art,
> >or sound because I feel that these terms are a bit unreasonable.

is the same true of your Rhizome.org membership? do you feel that
Rhizome.org's terms of Membership + Use are reasonable?

> >This might make the experiment of using MySpace as an art venue
> more interesting or posit more problems.

couldn't the same be said of Rhizome.org?

leaving aside the issues + context of the ArtBase, the fact that
these rights are non-exclusive means that i could i.e. post a
codework, commentary [+/or] piece of creative wryting in ASCII to
Rhizome RAW via email, a MySpace group, my own blog, sum 01 else's
listserv or site, etc… + still retain my own rights to this work
under these 2 terms (of Rhizome.org ++ MySpace). i do not loose my
rights b/c these terms are not exclusive, however, i do sign over the
rights stated in the terms. in the case of Rhizome.org my work (in
this ex) gates folded into the TextBase + can be used in any of the
ways articulated in the terms. in the case of MySpace, my work
becomes available to The Murdoch Corporation.

so this becomes an issue of trust + intenet…

On May 24, 2006, at 9:26 AM, Pall Thayer wrote:
> >This sounds to me like they are only reserving the right to use
> material on MySpace _within_ MySpace
> >to make sure they don't get sued for posting your image on the
> splash page as one of the "cool new people"

yes, they probably are just reserving those rights + i agree that is
as joy.garnett suggested in everyone's interest or perhaps more
specifically cooperative self-interest.

while the MySpace terms state that MySpace has the right to "use,
copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly display,
store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such Content on and
through the Services." which supports Pall Thayer's "_within_
MySpace" comment, it also allows (as Pall also noted) "unlimited
levels of sublicensees" that could allow the content to be used
outside of MySpace. conversely, the Rhizome.org terms explicitly
allow for Rhizome.org to "reproduce, publish, perform, display,
adapt, distribute or otherwise make available Your Content in web
sites, books, CD-ROMs or any other form or medium whatsoever, whether
now known or as may hereafter be developed." + "edit, adapt or
otherwise make changes to Your Content". this situation means by
transmitting email w/out the "NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION EXCEPT ON
RHIZOME.ORG WEBSITE AND EMAIL LISTS." Rhizome.org Members [+/or]
Users agree to the uses + editing of their content _outside_ of
Rhizome.org as stated in the terms above.

this might or might not be in the Members [+/or] Users best interest.
again, this returns the conversation to issues of trust + intent,
i.e. Lee Wells's comment:

On May 24, 2006, at 10:08 AM, Lee Wells wrote:
> >Always beware of the corporation.

++ also:

On May 24, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Lee Wells wrote:
> Scary Stuff.

so in light of the similarities are the Rhizome.org terms "Scary
Stuff" also? + if not why not?

all of us, as Members + Users of these systems, make choices about
the context we work in + the attendent anxieties, complexities +
problematrices. obviously, i am not interested in suggesting that
MySpace + Rhizome.org are the same b/c of their similar terms of
Membership [+/or] Use but rather i am interested in a discussion of
these choices.

// jonCates
# http://systemsapproach.net
# http://criticalartware.net
# http://r4wb1t5.org
# http://fvnm.info

Rhizome says they can do things with your art, but it's in context of them
controlling it. If I'm reading correctly, the MySpace terms give them the
right to hand your materials to other entities and let them do what they
want with it. Taking it to a logical (and seemingly legal) extreme,
someone's art could end up as the splash page for Haliburton's website, or
in a promo for some new Fox sitcom. I don't think Rhizome's terms would
permit that.

Adam

> —–Original Message—–
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> On Behalf Of jonCates
> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:29 PM
> To: rhizome
> Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Call for Participation:
> Experimental Exhibition - "Summer of MySpace"
>
>
> On May 24, 2006, at 9:00 AM, Christine Hart wrote:
> > >I have had several friends who are illustrators and artists remove
> > the bulk of their art work
> > >from MySpace because of a recent change to the Terms and
> > Conditions which can be found here: >http://collect.myspace.com/
> > misc/terms.html?z=1
>
> these terms of use are actually very similar to the Rhizome.org
> Member Agreement:
>
> http://rhizome.org/info/member_agreement.rhiz
>
> [+/or] the Rhizome.org User Agreement:
>
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> > >Basically it grants MySpace all of the rights to any "Content"
> > posted to MySpace as long as it is on the >MySpace servers.
>
> perhaps your phrasing of "all of the rights to any "Content" posted"
> makes these terms sound too expansive b/c they are in fact "non-
> exclusive".
>
> > Proprietary Rights in Content on MySpace.com.
> > By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content, messages,
> > text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, profiles, works of
> > authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") on or
> > through the Services, you hereby grant to MySpace.com, a non-
> > exclusive, fully-paid and royalty-free, worldwide license
> (with the
> > right to sublicense through unlimited levels of sublicensees) to
> > use, copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly
> > display, store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such
> Content on
> > and through the Services. This license will terminate at the time
> > you remove such Content from the Services. You represent and
> > warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through
> > the Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set
> > forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or
> > through the Services does not violate the privacy rights,
> publicity
> > rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any
> > person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other
> > monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to
> > or through the Services.
>
> + by comparison how different do the terms below sound?
>
> "You hereby grant Rhizome.org a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-
> free, perpetual license to: (i) store Your Content on Rhizome.org's
> servers; (ii) distribute Your Content on the Rhizome.org web
> site and
> through email lists; and (iii) reproduce, publish, perform, display,
> adapt, distribute or otherwise make available Your Content in web
> sites, books, CD-ROMs or any other form or medium whatsoever,
> whether
> now known or as may hereafter be developed.
>
> IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO GRANT RHIZOME.ORG THE RIGHT TO REPRODUCE,
> PUBLISH, PERFORM, DISPLAY, ADAPT, DISTRIBUTE OR OTHERWISE MAKE
> AVAILABLE YOUR CONTENT EXCEPT ON THE RHIZOME.ORG WEB SITE AND EMAIL
> LISTS, YOU MUST SO INDICATE BY INCLUDING THE FOLLOWING LANGUAGE AT
> THE END OF YOUR CONTENT WHEN YOU POST OR OTHERWISE SUBMIT IT TO
> RHIZOME.ORG: "NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION EXCEPT ON RHIZOME.ORG WEBSITE AND
> EMAIL LISTS."
>
> Rhizome.org reserves the right to: (a) edit, adapt or otherwise make
> changes to Your Content; (b) not include Your Content in the
> Rhizome.org web site or email lists; and © remove some or all of
> Your Content, without notification, from our servers, from the
> Rhizome.org web site and from any other form or media."
>
> > >I am a big believer in the Creative Commons lisencing and open
> > source art and code.
> > >I still maintain my profile on the site but I no longer post any
> > creative works of writing, art,
> > >or sound because I feel that these terms are a bit unreasonable.
>
> is the same true of your Rhizome.org membership? do you feel that
> Rhizome.org's terms of Membership + Use are reasonable?
>
> > >This might make the experiment of using MySpace as an art venue
> > more interesting or posit more problems.
>
> couldn't the same be said of Rhizome.org?
>
> leaving aside the issues + context of the ArtBase, the fact that
> these rights are non-exclusive means that i could i.e. post a
> codework, commentary [+/or] piece of creative wryting in ASCII to
> Rhizome RAW via email, a MySpace group, my own blog, sum 01 else's
> listserv or site, etc… + still retain my own rights to this work
> under these 2 terms (of Rhizome.org ++ MySpace). i do not loose my
> rights b/c these terms are not exclusive, however, i do sign
> over the
> rights stated in the terms. in the case of Rhizome.org my work (in
> this ex) gates folded into the TextBase + can be used in any of the
> ways articulated in the terms. in the case of MySpace, my work
> becomes available to The Murdoch Corporation.
>
> so this becomes an issue of trust + intenet…
>
> On May 24, 2006, at 9:26 AM, Pall Thayer wrote:
> > >This sounds to me like they are only reserving the right to use
> > material on MySpace _within_ MySpace
> > >to make sure they don't get sued for posting your image on the
> > splash page as one of the "cool new people"
>
> yes, they probably are just reserving those rights + i agree that is
> as joy.garnett suggested in everyone's interest or perhaps more
> specifically cooperative self-interest.
>
> while the MySpace terms state that MySpace has the right to "use,
> copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly display,
> store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such Content on and
> through the Services." which supports Pall Thayer's "_within_
> MySpace" comment, it also allows (as Pall also noted) "unlimited
> levels of sublicensees" that could allow the content to be used
> outside of MySpace. conversely, the Rhizome.org terms explicitly
> allow for Rhizome.org to "reproduce, publish, perform, display,
> adapt, distribute or otherwise make available Your Content in web
> sites, books, CD-ROMs or any other form or medium whatsoever,
> whether
> now known or as may hereafter be developed." + "edit, adapt or
> otherwise make changes to Your Content". this situation means by
> transmitting email w/out the "NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION EXCEPT ON
> RHIZOME.ORG WEBSITE AND EMAIL LISTS." Rhizome.org Members [+/or]
> Users agree to the uses + editing of their content _outside_ of
> Rhizome.org as stated in the terms above.
>
> this might or might not be in the Members [+/or] Users best
> interest.
> again, this returns the conversation to issues of trust + intent,
> i.e. Lee Wells's comment:
>
> On May 24, 2006, at 10:08 AM, Lee Wells wrote:
> > >Always beware of the corporation.
>
> ++ also:
>
> On May 24, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Lee Wells wrote:
> > Scary Stuff.
>
> so in light of the similarities are the Rhizome.org terms "Scary
> Stuff" also? + if not why not?
>
> all of us, as Members + Users of these systems, make choices about
> the context we work in + the attendent anxieties, complexities +
> problematrices. obviously, i am not interested in suggesting that
> MySpace + Rhizome.org are the same b/c of their similar terms of
> Membership [+/or] Use but rather i am interested in a discussion of
> these choices.
>
> // jonCates
> # http://systemsapproach.net
> # http://criticalartware.net
> # http://r4wb1t5.org
> # http://fvnm.info
> +
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in
> the Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

You have a very good point.


On 5/25/06 6:28 PM, "jonCates" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On May 24, 2006, at 9:00 AM, Christine Hart wrote:
>>> I have had several friends who are illustrators and artists remove
>> the bulk of their art work
>>> from MySpace because of a recent change to the Terms and
>> Conditions which can be found here: >http://collect.myspace.com/
>> misc/terms.html?z=1
>
> these terms of use are actually very similar to the Rhizome.org
> Member Agreement:
>
> http://rhizome.org/info/member_agreement.rhiz
>
> [+/or] the Rhizome.org User Agreement:
>
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>>> Basically it grants MySpace all of the rights to any "Content"
>> posted to MySpace as long as it is on the >MySpace servers.
>
> perhaps your phrasing of "all of the rights to any "Content" posted"
> makes these terms sound too expansive b/c they are in fact "non-
> exclusive".
>
>> Proprietary Rights in Content on MySpace.com.
>> By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content, messages,
>> text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, profiles, works of
>> authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") on or
>> through the Services, you hereby grant to MySpace.com, a non-
>> exclusive, fully-paid and royalty-free, worldwide license (with the
>> right to sublicense through unlimited levels of sublicensees) to
>> use, copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly
>> display, store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such Content on
>> and through the Services. This license will terminate at the time
>> you remove such Content from the Services. You represent and
>> warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through
>> the Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set
>> forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or
>> through the Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity
>> rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any
>> person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other
>> monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to
>> or through the Services.
>
> + by comparison how different do the terms below sound?
>
> "You hereby grant Rhizome.org a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-
> free, perpetual license to: (i) store Your Content on Rhizome.org's
> servers; (ii) distribute Your Content on the Rhizome.org web site and
> through email lists; and (iii) reproduce, publish, perform, display,
> adapt, distribute or otherwise make available Your Content in web
> sites, books, CD-ROMs or any other form or medium whatsoever, whether
> now known or as may hereafter be developed.
>
> IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO GRANT RHIZOME.ORG THE RIGHT TO REPRODUCE,
> PUBLISH, PERFORM, DISPLAY, ADAPT, DISTRIBUTE OR OTHERWISE MAKE
> AVAILABLE YOUR CONTENT EXCEPT ON THE RHIZOME.ORG WEB SITE AND EMAIL
> LISTS, YOU MUST SO INDICATE BY INCLUDING THE FOLLOWING LANGUAGE AT
> THE END OF YOUR CONTENT WHEN YOU POST OR OTHERWISE SUBMIT IT TO
> RHIZOME.ORG: "NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION EXCEPT ON RHIZOME.ORG WEBSITE AND
> EMAIL LISTS."
>
> Rhizome.org reserves the right to: (a) edit, adapt or otherwise make
> changes to Your Content; (b) not include Your Content in the
> Rhizome.org web site or email lists; and © remove some or all of
> Your Content, without notification, from our servers, from the
> Rhizome.org web site and from any other form or media."
>
>>> I am a big believer in the Creative Commons lisencing and open
>> source art and code.
>>> I still maintain my profile on the site but I no longer post any
>> creative works of writing, art,
>>> or sound because I feel that these terms are a bit unreasonable.
>
> is the same true of your Rhizome.org membership? do you feel that
> Rhizome.org's terms of Membership + Use are reasonable?
>
>>> This might make the experiment of using MySpace as an art venue
>> more interesting or posit more problems.
>
> couldn't the same be said of Rhizome.org?
>
> leaving aside the issues + context of the ArtBase, the fact that
> these rights are non-exclusive means that i could i.e. post a
> codework, commentary [+/or] piece of creative wryting in ASCII to
> Rhizome RAW via email, a MySpace group, my own blog, sum 01 else's
> listserv or site, etc… + still retain my own rights to this work
> under these 2 terms (of Rhizome.org ++ MySpace). i do not loose my
> rights b/c these terms are not exclusive, however, i do sign over the
> rights stated in the terms. in the case of Rhizome.org my work (in
> this ex) gates folded into the TextBase + can be used in any of the
> ways articulated in the terms. in the case of MySpace, my work
> becomes available to The Murdoch Corporation.
>
> so this becomes an issue of trust + intenet…
>
> On May 24, 2006, at 9:26 AM, Pall Thayer wrote:
>>> This sounds to me like they are only reserving the right to use
>> material on MySpace _within_ MySpace
>>> to make sure they don't get sued for posting your image on the
>> splash page as one of the "cool new people"
>
> yes, they probably are just reserving those rights + i agree that is
> as joy.garnett suggested in everyone's interest or perhaps more
> specifically cooperative self-interest.
>
> while the MySpace terms state that MySpace has the right to "use,
> copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly display,
> store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such Content on and
> through the Services." which supports Pall Thayer's "_within_
> MySpace" comment, it also allows (as Pall also noted) "unlimited
> levels of sublicensees" that could allow the content to be used
> outside of MySpace. conversely, the Rhizome.org terms explicitly
> allow for Rhizome.org to "reproduce, publish, perform, display,
> adapt, distribute or otherwise make available Your Content in web
> sites, books, CD-ROMs or any other form or medium whatsoever, whether
> now known or as may hereafter be developed." + "edit, adapt or
> otherwise make changes to Your Content". this situation means by
> transmitting email w/out the "NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION EXCEPT ON
> RHIZOME.ORG WEBSITE AND EMAIL LISTS." Rhizome.org Members [+/or]
> Users agree to the uses + editing of their content _outside_ of
> Rhizome.org as stated in the terms above.
>
> this might or might not be in the Members [+/or] Users best interest.
> again, this returns the conversation to issues of trust + intent,
> i.e. Lee Wells's comment:
>
> On May 24, 2006, at 10:08 AM, Lee Wells wrote:
>>> Always beware of the corporation.
>
> ++ also:
>
> On May 24, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Lee Wells wrote:
>> Scary Stuff.
>
> so in light of the similarities are the Rhizome.org terms "Scary
> Stuff" also? + if not why not?
>
> all of us, as Members + Users of these systems, make choices about
> the context we work in + the attendent anxieties, complexities +
> problematrices. obviously, i am not interested in suggesting that
> MySpace + Rhizome.org are the same b/c of their similar terms of
> Membership [+/or] Use but rather i am interested in a discussion of
> these choices.
>
> // jonCates
> # http://systemsapproach.net
> # http://criticalartware.net
> # http://r4wb1t5.org
> # http://fvnm.info
> +
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>

Beware of the institution too.


On 5/25/06 6:28 PM, "jonCates" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On May 24, 2006, at 9:00 AM, Christine Hart wrote:
>>> I have had several friends who are illustrators and artists remove
>> the bulk of their art work
>>> from MySpace because of a recent change to the Terms and
>> Conditions which can be found here: >http://collect.myspace.com/
>> misc/terms.html?z=1
>
> these terms of use are actually very similar to the Rhizome.org
> Member Agreement:
>
> http://rhizome.org/info/member_agreement.rhiz
>
> [+/or] the Rhizome.org User Agreement:
>
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>>> Basically it grants MySpace all of the rights to any "Content"
>> posted to MySpace as long as it is on the >MySpace servers.
>
> perhaps your phrasing of "all of the rights to any "Content" posted"
> makes these terms sound too expansive b/c they are in fact "non-
> exclusive".
>
>> Proprietary Rights in Content on MySpace.com.
>> By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content, messages,
>> text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, profiles, works of
>> authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") on or
>> through the Services, you hereby grant to MySpace.com, a non-
>> exclusive, fully-paid and royalty-free, worldwide license (with the
>> right to sublicense through unlimited levels of sublicensees) to
>> use, copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly
>> display, store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such Content on
>> and through the Services. This license will terminate at the time
>> you remove such Content from the Services. You represent and
>> warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through
>> the Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set
>> forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or
>> through the Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity
>> rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any
>> person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other
>> monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to
>> or through the Services.
>
> + by comparison how different do the terms below sound?
>
> "You hereby grant Rhizome.org a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-
> free, perpetual license to: (i) store Your Content on Rhizome.org's
> servers; (ii) distribute Your Content on the Rhizome.org web site and
> through email lists; and (iii) reproduce, publish, perform, display,
> adapt, distribute or otherwise make available Your Content in web
> sites, books, CD-ROMs or any other form or medium whatsoever, whether
> now known or as may hereafter be developed.
>
> IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO GRANT RHIZOME.ORG THE RIGHT TO REPRODUCE,
> PUBLISH, PERFORM, DISPLAY, ADAPT, DISTRIBUTE OR OTHERWISE MAKE
> AVAILABLE YOUR CONTENT EXCEPT ON THE RHIZOME.ORG WEB SITE AND EMAIL
> LISTS, YOU MUST SO INDICATE BY INCLUDING THE FOLLOWING LANGUAGE AT
> THE END OF YOUR CONTENT WHEN YOU POST OR OTHERWISE SUBMIT IT TO
> RHIZOME.ORG: "NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION EXCEPT ON RHIZOME.ORG WEBSITE AND
> EMAIL LISTS."
>
> Rhizome.org reserves the right to: (a) edit, adapt or otherwise make
> changes to Your Content; (b) not include Your Content in the
> Rhizome.org web site or email lists; and © remove some or all of
> Your Content, without notification, from our servers, from the
> Rhizome.org web site and from any other form or media."
>
>>> I am a big believer in the Creative Commons lisencing and open
>> source art and code.
>>> I still maintain my profile on the site but I no longer post any
>> creative works of writing, art,
>>> or sound because I feel that these terms are a bit unreasonable.
>
> is the same true of your Rhizome.org membership? do you feel that
> Rhizome.org's terms of Membership + Use are reasonable?
>
>>> This might make the experiment of using MySpace as an art venue
>> more interesting or posit more problems.
>
> couldn't the same be said of Rhizome.org?
>
> leaving aside the issues + context of the ArtBase, the fact that
> these rights are non-exclusive means that i could i.e. post a
> codework, commentary [+/or] piece of creative wryting in ASCII to
> Rhizome RAW via email, a MySpace group, my own blog, sum 01 else's
> listserv or site, etc… + still retain my own rights to this work
> under these 2 terms (of Rhizome.org ++ MySpace). i do not loose my
> rights b/c these terms are not exclusive, however, i do sign over the
> rights stated in the terms. in the case of Rhizome.org my work (in
> this ex) gates folded into the TextBase + can be used in any of the
> ways articulated in the terms. in the case of MySpace, my work
> becomes available to The Murdoch Corporation.
>
> so this becomes an issue of trust + intenet…
>
> On May 24, 2006, at 9:26 AM, Pall Thayer wrote:
>>> This sounds to me like they are only reserving the right to use
>> material on MySpace _within_ MySpace
>>> to make sure they don't get sued for posting your image on the
>> splash page as one of the "cool new people"
>
> yes, they probably are just reserving those rights + i agree that is
> as joy.garnett suggested in everyone's interest or perhaps more
> specifically cooperative self-interest.
>
> while the MySpace terms state that MySpace has the right to "use,
> copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly display,
> store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such Content on and
> through the Services." which supports Pall Thayer's "_within_
> MySpace" comment, it also allows (as Pall also noted) "unlimited
> levels of sublicensees" that could allow the content to be used
> outside of MySpace. conversely, the Rhizome.org terms explicitly
> allow for Rhizome.org to "reproduce, publish, perform, display,
> adapt, distribute or otherwise make available Your Content in web
> sites, books, CD-ROMs or any other form or medium whatsoever, whether
> now known or as may hereafter be developed." + "edit, adapt or
> otherwise make changes to Your Content". this situation means by
> transmitting email w/out the "NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION EXCEPT ON
> RHIZOME.ORG WEBSITE AND EMAIL LISTS." Rhizome.org Members [+/or]
> Users agree to the uses + editing of their content _outside_ of
> Rhizome.org as stated in the terms above.
>
> this might or might not be in the Members [+/or] Users best interest.
> again, this returns the conversation to issues of trust + intent,
> i.e. Lee Wells's comment:
>
> On May 24, 2006, at 10:08 AM, Lee Wells wrote:
>>> Always beware of the corporation.
>
> ++ also:
>
> On May 24, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Lee Wells wrote:
>> Scary Stuff.
>
> so in light of the similarities are the Rhizome.org terms "Scary
> Stuff" also? + if not why not?
>
> all of us, as Members + Users of these systems, make choices about
> the context we work in + the attendent anxieties, complexities +
> problematrices. obviously, i am not interested in suggesting that
> MySpace + Rhizome.org are the same b/c of their similar terms of
> Membership [+/or] Use but rather i am interested in a discussion of
> these choices.
>
> // jonCates
> # http://systemsapproach.net
> # http://criticalartware.net
> # http://r4wb1t5.org
> # http://fvnm.info
> +
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>

Which sounds dubiously like pornography disrespecting the fact that actual
art is an offering from the "heart" in a sufi / buddhist etc sense.

Don't you find it PATHOLOGICAL to be even discussing something like this?

The mind would boggle but a butterfly flew by.

If you close your eyes does the electric playground still exist?



On Thu, 25 May 2006, Adam Kendall wrote:

> Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 21:55:36 -0400
> From: Adam Kendall <[email protected]>
> To: 'jonCates' <[email protected]>, 'rhizome' <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: Call for Participation: Experimental Exhibition
> - "Summer of MySpace"
>
> Rhizome says they can do things with your art, but it's in context of them
> controlling it. If I'm reading correctly, the MySpace terms give them the
> right to hand your materials to other entities and let them do what they
> want with it. Taking it to a logical (and seemingly legal) extreme,
> someone's art could end up as the splash page for Haliburton's website, or
> in a promo for some new Fox sitcom. I don't think Rhizome's terms would
> permit that.
>
> Adam
>
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> > On Behalf Of jonCates
> > Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:29 PM
> > To: rhizome
> > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Call for Participation:
> > Experimental Exhibition - "Summer of MySpace"
> >
> >
> > On May 24, 2006, at 9:00 AM, Christine Hart wrote:
> > > >I have had several friends who are illustrators and artists remove
> > > the bulk of their art work
> > > >from MySpace because of a recent change to the Terms and
> > > Conditions which can be found here: >http://collect.myspace.com/
> > > misc/terms.html?z=1
> >
> > these terms of use are actually very similar to the Rhizome.org
> > Member Agreement:
> >
> > http://rhizome.org/info/member_agreement.rhiz
> >
> > [+/or] the Rhizome.org User Agreement:
> >
> > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
> > > >Basically it grants MySpace all of the rights to any "Content"
> > > posted to MySpace as long as it is on the >MySpace servers.
> >
> > perhaps your phrasing of "all of the rights to any "Content" posted"
> > makes these terms sound too expansive b/c they are in fact "non-
> > exclusive".
> >
> > > Proprietary Rights in Content on MySpace.com.
> > > By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content, messages,
> > > text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, profiles, works of
> > > authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") on or
> > > through the Services, you hereby grant to MySpace.com, a non-
> > > exclusive, fully-paid and royalty-free, worldwide license
> > (with the
> > > right to sublicense through unlimited levels of sublicensees) to
> > > use, copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly
> > > display, store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such
> > Content on
> > > and through the Services. This license will terminate at the time
> > > you remove such Content from the Services. You represent and
> > > warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through
> > > the Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set
> > > forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or
> > > through the Services does not violate the privacy rights,
> > publicity
> > > rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any
> > > person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other
> > > monies owing any person by reason of any Content posted by you to
> > > or through the Services.
> >
> > + by comparison how different do the terms below sound?
> >
> > "You hereby grant Rhizome.org a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-
> > free, perpetual license to: (i) store Your Content on Rhizome.org's
> > servers; (ii) distribute Your Content on the Rhizome.org web
> > site and
> > through email lists; and (iii) reproduce, publish, perform, display,
> > adapt, distribute or otherwise make available Your Content in web
> > sites, books, CD-ROMs or any other form or medium whatsoever,
> > whether
> > now known or as may hereafter be developed.
> >
> > IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO GRANT RHIZOME.ORG THE RIGHT TO REPRODUCE,
> > PUBLISH, PERFORM, DISPLAY, ADAPT, DISTRIBUTE OR OTHERWISE MAKE
> > AVAILABLE YOUR CONTENT EXCEPT ON THE RHIZOME.ORG WEB SITE AND EMAIL
> > LISTS, YOU MUST SO INDICATE BY INCLUDING THE FOLLOWING LANGUAGE AT
> > THE END OF YOUR CONTENT WHEN YOU POST OR OTHERWISE SUBMIT IT TO
> > RHIZOME.ORG: "NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION EXCEPT ON RHIZOME.ORG WEBSITE AND
> > EMAIL LISTS."
> >
> > Rhizome.org reserves the right to: (a) edit, adapt or otherwise make
> > changes to Your Content; (b) not include Your Content in the
> > Rhizome.org web site or email lists; and © remove some or all of
> > Your Content, without notification, from our servers, from the
> > Rhizome.org web site and from any other form or media."
> >
> > > >I am a big believer in the Creative Commons lisencing and open
> > > source art and code.
> > > >I still maintain my profile on the site but I no longer post any
> > > creative works of writing, art,
> > > >or sound because I feel that these terms are a bit unreasonable.
> >
> > is the same true of your Rhizome.org membership? do you feel that
> > Rhizome.org's terms of Membership + Use are reasonable?
> >
> > > >This might make the experiment of using MySpace as an art venue
> > > more interesting or posit more problems.
> >
> > couldn't the same be said of Rhizome.org?
> >
> > leaving aside the issues + context of the ArtBase, the fact that
> > these rights are non-exclusive means that i could i.e. post a
> > codework, commentary [+/or] piece of creative wryting in ASCII to
> > Rhizome RAW via email, a MySpace group, my own blog, sum 01 else's
> > listserv or site, etc… + still retain my own rights to this work
> > under these 2 terms (of Rhizome.org ++ MySpace). i do not loose my
> > rights b/c these terms are not exclusive, however, i do sign
> > over the
> > rights stated in the terms. in the case of Rhizome.org my work (in
> > this ex) gates folded into the TextBase + can be used in any of the
> > ways articulated in the terms. in the case of MySpace, my work
> > becomes available to The Murdoch Corporation.
> >
> > so this becomes an issue of trust + intenet…
> >
> > On May 24, 2006, at 9:26 AM, Pall Thayer wrote:
> > > >This sounds to me like they are only reserving the right to use
> > > material on MySpace _within_ MySpace
> > > >to make sure they don't get sued for posting your image on the
> > > splash page as one of the "cool new people"
> >
> > yes, they probably are just reserving those rights + i agree that is
> > as joy.garnett suggested in everyone's interest or perhaps more
> > specifically cooperative self-interest.
> >
> > while the MySpace terms state that MySpace has the right to "use,
> > copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly display,
> > store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such Content on and
> > through the Services." which supports Pall Thayer's "_within_
> > MySpace" comment, it also allows (as Pall also noted) "unlimited
> > levels of sublicensees" that could allow the content to be used
> > outside of MySpace. conversely, the Rhizome.org terms explicitly
> > allow for Rhizome.org to "reproduce, publish, perform, display,
> > adapt, distribute or otherwise make available Your Content in web
> > sites, books, CD-ROMs or any other form or medium whatsoever,
> > whether
> > now known or as may hereafter be developed." + "edit, adapt or
> > otherwise make changes to Your Content". this situation means by
> > transmitting email w/out the "NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION EXCEPT ON
> > RHIZOME.ORG WEBSITE AND EMAIL LISTS." Rhizome.org Members [+/or]
> > Users agree to the uses + editing of their content _outside_ of
> > Rhizome.org as stated in the terms above.
> >
> > this might or might not be in the Members [+/or] Users best
> > interest.
> > again, this returns the conversation to issues of trust + intent,
> > i.e. Lee Wells's comment:
> >
> > On May 24, 2006, at 10:08 AM, Lee Wells wrote:
> > > >Always beware of the corporation.
> >
> > ++ also:
> >
> > On May 24, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Lee Wells wrote:
> > > Scary Stuff.
> >
> > so in light of the similarities are the Rhizome.org terms "Scary
> > Stuff" also? + if not why not?
> >
> > all of us, as Members + Users of these systems, make choices about
> > the context we work in + the attendent anxieties, complexities +
> > problematrices. obviously, i am not interested in suggesting that
> > MySpace + Rhizome.org are the same b/c of their similar terms of
> > Membership [+/or] Use but rather i am interested in a discussion of
> > these choices.
> >
> > // jonCates
> > # http://systemsapproach.net
> > # http://criticalartware.net
> > # http://r4wb1t5.org
> > # http://fvnm.info
> > +
> > -> post: [email protected]
> > -> questions: [email protected]
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in
> > the Membership Agreement available online at
> > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
>
>
> +
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

o
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