Re: RHIZOME_RARE arti-smoking:3,000,001 web page

Posted by alexandra reill | Fri May 17th 2002 1 a.m.

i really don't understand which human approach you can rely on to dare to
express calls like >>>>>>>>>> "Arti- Smoking", art for a smoke-free world
project. <<<<<<<<<<<<
i really ask myself whether such plain moralistic attitude is the right
basis to give to children or which is worse - to die from lung cancer
through smoking or to spend a whole life in such a moralistic attitude, thus
imposing strange rules on others how the world should be - actually we are
talking about highly sensitive and at the same time political issues, and me
personally, i cannot see how i could ever go along with such attitudes being
proposed by the arti-smoking project. i am sorry.

http://www.kanonmedia.com/portfolio/sp01.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------
kanonmedia.com
non - profit org for new media

amadeus house
99_48, mariahilfer st.
a-1060 vienna
call: ++43 - 1 - 920 70 03
mailto: office@kanonmedia.com
visit: www.kanonmedia.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "aocaamw" <aocaamw@yahoo.com>
To: <Rare_Chat@rhizome.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 7:16 PM
Subject: RHIZOME_RARE arti-smoking:3,000,001 web page

>
> below please find link to web page of : i would have
> died 3,000,001 times in 1993 alone if i did not quit
> smoking.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/aocaamw/artismoking3000001.htm
>
>
> =====
> \_ ///__///_/////
> ///// _ http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/7982/
> /////_/////_///
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
> http://health.yahoo.com
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  • MTAA | Fri May 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    >i really don't understand which human approach you can rely on to dare to
    >express calls like >>>>>>>>>> "Arti- Smoking", art for a smoke-free world
    >project. <<<<<<<<<<<<
    >i really ask myself whether such plain moralistic attitude is the right
    >basis to give to children or which is worse - to die from lung cancer
    >through smoking or to spend a whole life in such a moralistic attitude, thus
    >imposing strange rules on others how the world should be - actually we are
    >talking about highly sensitive and at the same time political issues, and me
    >personally, i cannot see how i could ever go along with such attitudes being
    >proposed by the arti-smoking project. i am sorry.
    >
    >http://www.kanonmedia.com/portfolio/sp01.htm

    i agree with kanonmedia. (full disclosure: i'm a smoker.)

    the history of tobacco, in america esp., is simply not as black &
    white as the anti-smoking moralists would like us to believe.

    it's probably quite easy to get public funding for art pushing an
    anti-smoking agenda.

    one won't get it for this sort of art:
    http://www.mteww.com/number100/00to02mtaa

    --
    <twhid>
    http://www.mteww.com
    </twhid>
  • Eryk Salvaggio | Fri May 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    the history of tobacco, in america esp., is simply not as black &
    white as
    the anti-smoking moralists would like us to believe."

    So, smoking won't kill me, because it has had a varied and rich impact
    on American Culture? Let's look at it this way; tobacco companies have
    aimed at hollywood stars and films, trying to get them to smoke- any
    brand, just to smoke, period- because it increases the chic factor of
    smoking. Artists who smoke accomplish the same thing. They are making
    tobacco out to be "hip" and so inadvertently sell the image that art =
    smoking in black turtlenecks. The idea that people would be upset about
    an artist challenging this stereotype- a stereotype that helps to sell
    cigarettes
    and the faux "rebellion" that cigarettes represent- is just as weird as
    people
    complaining about a show for young artists being "exclusive." [Wasn't
    "net.ephemera" limited only to New York based artists? I didn't see GH
    declare "I guess there's no-one outside of NYC that could possibly have
    any good ideas."]

    Smoking is a major health issue. Why would anyone have a problem with
    this fact being represented, when all the rest of the information about
    tobacco
    comes from the tobacco companies? I guess if you are really pro corporate
    then you could have a right to disagree, but encouraging people not to
    become
    addicts to one more spoke in the capitalist bullshit machine is
    certainly not
    reprehensible?

    As for Moralism- I'm not sure if avoiding tobacco is presented all too
    often
    as "the high road" or some path to God; from the works I've seen it's
    pretty
    much been a straightforward message: Smoking is a suicidal act; increases
    your risk for cancer, turns your teeth yellow, gives you bad breath, makes
    you smell bad, etc. Best case scenario is lung problems in your old age.
    It's
    unhealthy, and the effects of not being healthy far outweigh the effects of
    "looking cool". Smoke if you want, but don't complain that someone is
    making
    a statement that barely even balances the major impact that tobacco has
    had,
    up to very, very recently, on our culture. It's got less to do with
    "morals" -
    morals being an idea of "right and wrong"- and more to do with "ethics" and
    whether health is more important than image.

    I don't see how encouraging people to be healthy is suddenly fascist; nor do
    I see why artists with a point of view- "imposing strange rules on
    others of
    how the world should be" - is any different or more dangerous than a mass
    media marketing campaign that convinces kids to smoke? Anything that is
    seen as "rebellion" that is actually a way of killing yourself or making
    complacency
    easier deserves a strong reaction from artists. Unfortunately, they're
    usually
    mired in these attitudes and would not for a second be honest enough to
    question the very faux-rebellion they have fallen for themselves.

    -e.

    t.whid wrote:

    >> i really don't understand which human approach you can rely on to
    >> dare to
    >> express calls like >>>>>>>>>> "Arti- Smoking", art for a smoke-free
    >> world
    >> project. <<<<<<<<<<<<
    >> i really ask myself whether such plain moralistic attitude is the right
    >> basis to give to children or which is worse - to die from lung cancer
    >> through smoking or to spend a whole life in such a moralistic
    >> attitude, thus
    >>
    >>imposing strange rules on others how the world should be
    >>
    >> - actually we are
    >> talking about highly sensitive and at the same time political issues,
    >> and me
    >> personally, i cannot see how i could ever go along with such
    >> attitudes being
    >> proposed by the arti-smoking project. i am sorry.
    >>
    >> http://www.kanonmedia.com/portfolio/sp01.htm
    >
    >
    >
    > i agree with kanonmedia. (full disclosure: i'm a smoker.)
    >
    > the history of tobacco, in america esp., is simply not as black &
    > white as the anti-smoking moralists would like us to believe.
    >
    > it's probably quite easy to get public funding for art pushing an
    > anti-smoking agenda.
    >
    > one won't get it for this sort of art:
    > http://www.mteww.com/number100/00to02mtaa
    >
    >
  • Plasma Studii | Sun May 19th 2002 1 a.m.
    Odd though that every smoker surely knows that smoking is a lousy
    gamble. I'm sure every smoker knows may even agree with you but will
    get fed up and find fault with this stuff anyway. But seems like it's
    all pretty standard grade school education stuff. Points everyone
    has heard since they were kids. But has no final effect on some. It
    woiuld make logical sense that it completely obliterated smoking but
    for some reason people still do it.

    The odd thing is that there is no REAL benefit to smoking. The only
    good effects that exist are the result of addicts convinced by their
    addiction. The ADDICTION says it calms you (but actually, not having
    a smoke, makes addicts tense, that's just how addictions work, the
    first puff is a relief) Even if you still entertain doubt about the
    medical conclussions, nobody actually doubts there is some pretty
    heavy evidence.

    So, what seems odd is that in the face of such overwhelmingly
    horrendous evidence, smokers still choose to abuse themselves for no
    apparent reason. they call cigarettes "cancer sticks" and light up
    anyway. Doesn't make any logical sense but hey whatever turns you
    on...

    what makes people CHOOSE to do what they know is bad?

    That'd be fine but then they are also making that choice for everyone
    around them. If it was self-contained, who cares. Chew 20 packs of
    nicotene gum at a time. But smoking is just rude like walking up to
    a stranger and making a small cut. Argue that once is probably not
    going to kill the person. But IT's STILL RUDE. smoke, don't smoke.
    who cares. But do it in your own bathroom, like giving yourself an
    enema. Keep it to yourself. Just don't make the people who happen
    to be around take part.

    judson

    >"the history of tobacco, in america esp., is simply not as black & white as
    >the anti-smoking moralists would like us to believe."
    >
    >So, smoking won't kill me, because it has had a varied and rich impact
    >on American Culture? Let's look at it this way; tobacco companies have
    >aimed at hollywood stars and films, trying to get them to smoke- any
    >brand, just to smoke, period- because it increases the chic factor of
    >smoking. Artists who smoke accomplish the same thing. They are making
    >tobacco out to be "hip" and so inadvertently sell the image that art =
    >smoking in black turtlenecks. The idea that people would be upset about
    >an artist challenging this stereotype- a stereotype that helps to
    >sell cigarettes
    >and the faux "rebellion" that cigarettes represent- is just as weird as pe=
    ople
    >complaining about a show for young artists being "exclusive." [Wasn't
    >"net.ephemera" limited only to New York based artists? I didn't see GH
    >declare "I guess there's no-one outside of NYC that could possibly have
    >any good ideas."]
    >
    >Smoking is a major health issue. Why would anyone have a problem with
    >this fact being represented, when all the rest of the information
    >about tobacco
    >comes from the tobacco companies? I guess if you are really pro corporate
    >then you could have a right to disagree, but encouraging people not to bec=
    ome
    >addicts to one more spoke in the capitalist bullshit machine is certainly =
    not
    >reprehensible?
    >
    >As for Moralism- I'm not sure if avoiding tobacco is presented all too oft=
    en
    >as "the high road" or some path to God; from the works I've seen it's pret=
    ty
    >much been a straightforward message: Smoking is a suicidal act; increases
    >your risk for cancer, turns your teeth yellow, gives you bad breath, makes
    >you smell bad, etc. Best case scenario is lung problems in your old age. I=
    t's
    >unhealthy, and the effects of not being healthy far outweigh the effects of
    >"looking cool". Smoke if you want, but don't complain that someone is maki=
    ng
    >a statement that barely even balances the major impact that tobacco has ha=
    d,
    >up to very, very recently, on our culture. It's got less to do with "moral=
    s" -
    >morals being an idea of "right and wrong"- and more to do with "ethics" and
    >whether health is more important than image.
    >
    >I don't see how encouraging people to be healthy is suddenly fascist; nor =
    do
    >I see why artists with a point of view- "imposing strange rules on others =
    of
    >how the world should be" - is any different or more dangerous than a mass
    >media marketing campaign that convinces kids to smoke? Anything that is
    >seen as "rebellion" that is actually a way of killing yourself or
    >making complacency
    >easier deserves a strong reaction from artists. Unfortunately, they're usu=
    ally
    >mired in these attitudes and would not for a second be honest enough to
    >question the very faux-rebellion they have fallen for themselves.
    >
    >
    >-e.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >t.whid wrote:
    >
    >>>i really don't understand which human approach you can rely on to dare to
    >>>express calls like >>>>>>>>>> "Arti- Smoking", art for a smoke-free world
    >>>project. <<<<<<<<<<<<
    >>>i really ask myself whether such plain moralistic attitude is the right
    >>>basis to give to children or which is worse - to die from lung cancer
    >>>through smoking or to spend a whole life in such a moralistic attitude, =
    thus
    >>>imposing strange rules on others how the world should be
    >>>- actually we are
    >>>talking about highly sensitive and at the same time political issues, an=
    d me
    >>>personally, i cannot see how i could ever go along with such attitudes b=
    eing
    >>>proposed by the arti-smoking project. i am sorry.
    >>>
    >>><http://www.kanonmedia.com/portfolio/sp01.htm>http://www.kanonmedia
    >>>.com/portfolio/sp01.htm
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >>i agree with kanonmedia. (full disclosure: i'm a smoker.)
    >>
    >>the history of tobacco, in america esp., is simply not as black &
    >>white as the anti-smoking moralists would like us to believe.
    >>
    >>it's probably quite easy to get public funding for art pushing an
    >>anti-smoking agenda.
    >>
    >>one won't get it for this sort of art:
    >><http://www.mteww.com/number100/00to02mtaa>http://www.mteww.com/numb
    >>er100/00to02mtaa

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    PLASMA STUDII
    http://plasmastudii.org
    223 E 10th Street
    PMB 130
    New York, NY 10003
  • Plasma Studii | Mon May 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    Odd though that every smoker surely knows that smoking is a lousy
    gamble. I'm sure every smoker knows may even agree with you but will
    get fed up and find fault with this stuff anyway. But seems like it's
    all pretty standard grade school education stuff. Points everyone
    has heard since they were kids. But has no final effect on some. It
    woiuld make logical sense that it completely obliterated smoking but
    for some reason people still do it.

    The odd thing is that there is no REAL benefit to smoking. The only
    good effects that exist are the result of addicts convinced by their
    addiction. The ADDICTION says it calms you (but actually, not having
    a smoke, makes addicts tense, that's just how addictions work, the
    first puff is a relief) Even if you still entertain doubt about the
    medical conclussions, nobody actually doubts there is some pretty
    heavy evidence.

    So, what seems odd is that in the face of such overwhelmingly
    horrendous evidence, smokers still choose to abuse themselves for no
    apparent reason. they call cigarettes "cancer sticks" and light up
    anyway. Doesn't make any logical sense but hey whatever turns you
    on...

    what makes people CHOOSE to do what they know is bad?

    That'd be fine but then they are also making that choice for everyone
    around them. If it was self-contained, who cares. Chew 20 packs of
    nicotene gum at a time. But smoking is just rude like walking up to
    a stranger and making a small cut. Argue that once is probably not
    going to kill the person. But IT's STILL RUDE. smoke, don't smoke.
    who cares. But do it in your own bathroom, like giving yourself an
    enema. Keep it to yourself. Just don't make the people who happen
    to be around take part.

    judson

    >"the history of tobacco, in america esp., is simply not as black & white as
    >the anti-smoking moralists would like us to believe."
    >
    >So, smoking won't kill me, because it has had a varied and rich impact
    >on American Culture? Let's look at it this way; tobacco companies have
    >aimed at hollywood stars and films, trying to get them to smoke- any
    >brand, just to smoke, period- because it increases the chic factor of
    >smoking. Artists who smoke accomplish the same thing. They are making
    >tobacco out to be "hip" and so inadvertently sell the image that art =
    >smoking in black turtlenecks. The idea that people would be upset about
    >an artist challenging this stereotype- a stereotype that helps to
    >sell cigarettes
    >and the faux "rebellion" that cigarettes represent- is just as weird as pe=
    ople
    >complaining about a show for young artists being "exclusive." [Wasn't
    >"net.ephemera" limited only to New York based artists? I didn't see GH
    >declare "I guess there's no-one outside of NYC that could possibly have
    >any good ideas."]
    >
    >Smoking is a major health issue. Why would anyone have a problem with
    >this fact being represented, when all the rest of the information
    >about tobacco
    >comes from the tobacco companies? I guess if you are really pro corporate
    >then you could have a right to disagree, but encouraging people not to bec=
    ome
    >addicts to one more spoke in the capitalist bullshit machine is certainly =
    not
    >reprehensible?
    >
    >As for Moralism- I'm not sure if avoiding tobacco is presented all too oft=
    en
    >as "the high road" or some path to God; from the works I've seen it's pret=
    ty
    >much been a straightforward message: Smoking is a suicidal act; increases
    >your risk for cancer, turns your teeth yellow, gives you bad breath, makes
    >you smell bad, etc. Best case scenario is lung problems in your old age. I=
    t's
    >unhealthy, and the effects of not being healthy far outweigh the effects of
    >"looking cool". Smoke if you want, but don't complain that someone is maki=
    ng
    >a statement that barely even balances the major impact that tobacco has ha=
    d,
    >up to very, very recently, on our culture. It's got less to do with "moral=
    s" -
    >morals being an idea of "right and wrong"- and more to do with "ethics" and
    >whether health is more important than image.
    >
    >I don't see how encouraging people to be healthy is suddenly fascist; nor =
    do
    >I see why artists with a point of view- "imposing strange rules on others =
    of
    >how the world should be" - is any different or more dangerous than a mass
    >media marketing campaign that convinces kids to smoke? Anything that is
    >seen as "rebellion" that is actually a way of killing yourself or
    >making complacency
    >easier deserves a strong reaction from artists. Unfortunately, they're usu=
    ally
    >mired in these attitudes and would not for a second be honest enough to
    >question the very faux-rebellion they have fallen for themselves.
    >
    >
    >-e.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >t.whid wrote:
    >
    >>>i really don't understand which human approach you can rely on to dare to
    >>>express calls like >>>>>>>>>> "Arti- Smoking", art for a smoke-free world
    >>>project. <<<<<<<<<<<<
    >>>i really ask myself whether such plain moralistic attitude is the right
    >>>basis to give to children or which is worse - to die from lung cancer
    >>>through smoking or to spend a whole life in such a moralistic attitude, =
    thus
    >>>imposing strange rules on others how the world should be
    >>>- actually we are
    >>>talking about highly sensitive and at the same time political issues, an=
    d me
    >>>personally, i cannot see how i could ever go along with such attitudes b=
    eing
    >>>proposed by the arti-smoking project. i am sorry.
    >>>
    >>><http://www.kanonmedia.com/portfolio/sp01.htm>http://www.kanonmedia
    >>>.com/portfolio/sp01.htm
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >>i agree with kanonmedia. (full disclosure: i'm a smoker.)
    >>
    >>the history of tobacco, in america esp., is simply not as black &
    >>white as the anti-smoking moralists would like us to believe.
    >>
    >>it's probably quite easy to get public funding for art pushing an
    >>anti-smoking agenda.
    >>
    >>one won't get it for this sort of art:
    >><http://www.mteww.com/number100/00to02mtaa>http://www.mteww.com/numb
    >>er100/00to02mtaa

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    PLASMA STUDII
    http://plasmastudii.org
    223 E 10th Street
    PMB 130
    New York, NY 10003
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