ArtExpo 2005 by Luca Curci in Italy

ditto for me.

i got a rather cookie-cutter "i want to play yr work" and replied with
a "i cannot afford 100 euro" and am waiting for a reply.

anyone else?

On Mar 24, 2005, at 9:58 AM, David Lachman wrote:

> Hi
> I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this:
>
> ArtExpo 2004 Official site:
> www.lucacurci.com/artexpo/2004
>
> I submitted a video to the video component for the 2005 version.
> Because it was free to enter I didn't really check them out first.
> Well, I get an acceptance email and it turns out it costs 100 Euros to
> be in the Expo. I've never run across this kind of back end charge,
> except a few cases where it is made very clear in the beginning and
> called a hanging charge.
> Is this normal in some parts of the world, so that mentioning it up
> front is not expected?
>
> Dave
> +
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

Simple rule: don't pay to play. ever.

Look at the work in the gallery. It's horrid. This is a vanity show.
Stay away. Don't waste your money.


On Mar 24, 2005, at 9:58 AM, David Lachman wrote:

> Hi
> I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this:
>
> ArtExpo 2004 Official site:
> www.lucacurci.com/artexpo/2004
>
> I submitted a video to the video component for the 2005 version.
> Because it was free to enter I didn't really check them out first.
> Well, I get an acceptance email and it turns out it costs 100 Euros to
> be in the Expo. I've never run across this kind of back end charge,
> except a few cases where it is made very clear in the beginning and
> called a hanging charge.
> Is this normal in some parts of the world, so that mentioning it up
> front is not expected?
>
> Dave

===
<twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
===

i think agricola de cologne posted a good insight about another
"biennial" in italy. this sounds like a similar case? dunno?

basically, the art biz works much differently in that country
(ironically, where a bunch of our art history came from). common for
artists to pay to have art shown in these events. (federal grants,
funding is pretty much non-existent).

these are more like art fairs. more like looks-nice-with-the-couch
works than insightful-commentary works. sometimes the "curators" can
come off more as used car salesmen. but nothing wrong with making
art with capitalist goals nor trying to make a buck (or lira)
organizing these things.

i did get a reply once from luca a while ago (we must get these
constantly) and he was nice. but am sure he must receive tons of
replies from people all over about the price. a good bet he's
scratching his head, wondering what's these people's problem.

>ditto for me.
>
>i got a rather cookie-cutter "i want to play yr work" and replied
>with a "i cannot afford 100 euro" and am waiting for a reply.
>
>anyone else?
>
>On Mar 24, 2005, at 9:58 AM, David Lachman wrote:
>
>> Hi
>> I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this:
>>
>> ArtExpo 2004 Official site:
>> www.lucacurci.com/artexpo/2004
>>
>> I submitted a video to the video component for the 2005 version.
>>Because it was free to enter I didn't really check them out first.
>>Well, I get an acceptance email and it turns out it costs 100 Euros
>>to be in the Expo. I've never run across this kind of back end
>>charge, except a few cases where it is made very clear in the
>>beginning and called a hanging charge.
>> Is this normal in some parts of the world, so that mentioning it
>>up front is not expected?
>>
>> Dave
>> +
>> -> post: [email protected]
>> -> questions: [email protected]
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>
>+
>-> post: [email protected]
>-> questions: [email protected]
>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>-> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
>+
>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

>Simple rule: don't pay to play. ever.

twhid,

your advice would certainly help the art world if everyone followed
it unanimously. but unfortunately, it's a harmful ideal that just
doesn't happen in the real world. it's ridiculously unfair, but
nobody could get their work shown, make work that would get shown,
etc. without investing $$$$. particularly for "emerging" artists,
there's no way they are going to compete for those $10,000 grants.

it's a long, expensive and really congested road. even the most
successful artists have "day jobs", they subsidize their art with
money from another source. some venues pay better than others. but
you have to do a share of money-losers, to get the money winners. in
fact, in the performance biz (theater, dance, etc) there may be only
a handful of people in the world who don't have to sometimes do
freebies, just to keep their buzz, to keep their name in front of the
investors.

it would be harmful to anyone to tell them there won't be a big price
tag. for my girlfriend to have her work in a show, she PAYS to frame
it. if she doesn't the work doesn't get displayed, and she'll never
get the notoriety, write-ups etc, that are a necessary step to
getting those commissions. sometimes the work does sell and she
makes her money back, but that's a gamble.

i know a lot of people who are making those big commissions and they
are still often paying for things like framing out of their pocket.
many teach art and that gives em pocket money, but they're still
paying to play. there are only so many opportunities, particularly
for computer artists. while the opportunities are growing fast now,
there still isn't nearly as much money available as could pay for a
single web artist's work all year and that money is going to be
divided between 50+ artists.

judsoN

sorry about being unclear, I meant specifically fees to *show* the work.

Obviously artists will many times need to swallow their own production
costs, especially in group shows.

I've paid to frame and even ship work, but you need to feel it out. If
you're uncomfortable with a situation, there probably is a good reason.

In this case, it sounds like the artist needs to
1) pay for framing if they need it
2) pay for shipping and insurance
3) pay to hang it!

That's bullshit, no matter how you cut it. Plus the quality of the work
was dismal, why would you want to be in a show like that?

On Mar 24, 2005, at 12:09 PM, Plasma Studii - judsoN wrote:

>> Simple rule: don't pay to play. ever.
>
> twhid,
>
> your advice would certainly help the art world if everyone followed it
> unanimously. but unfortunately, it's a harmful ideal that just
> doesn't happen in the real world. it's ridiculously unfair, but
> nobody could get their work shown, make work that would get shown,
> etc. without investing $$$$. particularly for "emerging" artists,
> there's no way they are going to compete for those $10,000 grants.
>
> it's a long, expensive and really congested road. even the most
> successful artists have "day jobs", they subsidize their art with
> money from another source. some venues pay better than others. but
> you have to do a share of money-losers, to get the money winners. in
> fact, in the performance biz (theater, dance, etc) there may be only
> a handful of people in the world who don't have to sometimes do
> freebies, just to keep their buzz, to keep their name in front of the
> investors.
>
> it would be harmful to anyone to tell them there won't be a big price
> tag. for my girlfriend to have her work in a show, she PAYS to frame
> it. if she doesn't the work doesn't get displayed, and she'll never
> get the notoriety, write-ups etc, that are a necessary step to getting
> those commissions. sometimes the work does sell and she makes her
> money back, but that's a gamble.
>
> i know a lot of people who are making those big commissions and they
> are still often paying for things like framing out of their pocket.
> many teach art and that gives em pocket money, but they're still
> paying to play. there are only so many opportunities, particularly
> for computer artists. while the opportunities are growing fast now,
> there still isn't nearly as much money available as could pay for a
> single web artist's work all year and that money is going to be
> divided between 50+ artists.
>
> judsoN
>
>
>

===
<twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
===

Yes,
Italy seems to be indeed a strange country in concern of
festivals, the Florence Biennial represents probably one of the worst,
but the organisation of Luca Curci belongs also to the worse ones.
There is certainly nothing wrong, if someone (Luca Curci)
wants to earn money by making his business (organisation of events),
but he should find other ways than asking artists for hyperdimensional fees.
Of course, again ( like Florence Biennial) the only criterium is the fee,
and not the quality of the art work.

There exist really many festivals in Europe which all ask not any fee,
many have a lot of reputation,
so one may ask, why an artist ever gets an idea to pay any fee, at all.

One can say in principle, that people who ask such high fees
are neither serious, nor professional,
at least in Europe it is like that.

AdC





—– Original Message —–
From: "Plasma Studii - judsoN" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: ArtExpo 2005 by Luca Curci in Italy


>i think agricola de cologne posted a good insight about another "biennial"
>in italy. this sounds like a similar case? dunno?
>
> basically, the art biz works much differently in that country (ironically,
> where a bunch of our art history came from). common for artists to pay to
> have art shown in these events. (federal grants, funding is pretty much
> non-existent).
>
> these are more like art fairs. more like looks-nice-with-the-couch works
> than insightful-commentary works. sometimes the "curators" can come off
> more as used car salesmen. but nothing wrong with making art with
> capitalist goals nor trying to make a buck (or lira) organizing these
> things.
>
> i did get a reply once from luca a while ago (we must get these
> constantly) and he was nice. but am sure he must receive tons of replies
> from people all over about the price. a good bet he's scratching his
> head, wondering what's these people's problem.
>
>>ditto for me.
>>
>>i got a rather cookie-cutter "i want to play yr work" and replied with a
>>"i cannot afford 100 euro" and am waiting for a reply.
>>
>>anyone else?
>>
>>On Mar 24, 2005, at 9:58 AM, David Lachman wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>> I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this:
>>>
>>> ArtExpo 2004 Official site:
>>> www.lucacurci.com/artexpo/2004
>>>
>>> I submitted a video to the video component for the 2005 version.
>>> Because it was free to enter I didn't really check them out first. Well,
>>> I get an acceptance email and it turns out it costs 100 Euros to be in
>>> the Expo. I've never run across this kind of back end charge, except a
>>> few cases where it is made very clear in the beginning and called a
>>> hanging charge.
>>> Is this normal in some parts of the world, so that mentioning it up
>>> front is not expected?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>> +
>>> -> post: [email protected]
>>> -> questions: [email protected]
>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
>>> +
>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>>
>>
>>+
>>-> post: [email protected]
>>-> questions: [email protected]
>>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>-> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
>>+
>>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> +
> -> post: [email protected]
> -> questions: [email protected]
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

Another organization similar to this is World Art Media or otherwise known
at New Your Arts Magazine. You can look at it as a scam or you can look at
it as paying for guaranteed editorial. Its a 60% pay to play rag. The rest
of the content comes from unpaid writers. Through them you can also get
shows in Berlin and China in addition to NYC.I don

As an artist, I don't recall doing a show without having to pay jury or curatorial fees. It seems like it's part of the process. Except for solo exhibitions. It honestly starts to look like the art world is in favor of curators and administrators than artists sometimes.
Regarding Luca Curci. . . I have participated in a number of things he has organized (and won't disagree with previous comments about the type of work shown). But, I will say that some venues he has managed to schedule for Art Expo, I have been able to ascertain some level of credibility for, at least in my estimation. There have been a couple of foul balls though. That's part of the bag I suppose.
The problem is that artists have to constantly develop strategies for success. It is a long haul and you have to be persistent.

www.estlack.com