I've been offline a bit more than usual and found this while going through
my Rhizome folder…I've been doing tangible things - like painting. More of
a be here now, than in my second head i.e., my laptop. I hope all of you
will indulge me, by allowing me to revisit this topic. Please feel free to
add to, correct or try to interpret my thoughts…just don't put words in my
text =)
> 1.) What programming languages do you use?
I know very little code when compared to some, and the ones I know are
more of the pig Latin of other codes such as; HTML, ActionScript and
JavaScript, and the derivative apps that use them.
> 2.) Why did you choose the language(s) that you use,
> and how did you learn it/them?
I started coding as a student artist in BASIC, that lead quickly to the
Internet (Web wasn't coined yet) and HTML. Web design lead to GIF
animations, which lead animation programs on the Amiga, and interaction
using Mandala. Eventually technology somewhat caught up, leading to WYSIWYG
editors, Director, RayDream, Splash ->then Flash, and the host of graphic
and video editing apps to make the "art" that makes up the content in
whatever form I deliver it.
> 3.) Were you university-trained in programming or
> self-taught? What advantages and disadvantages do you
> see in this method of learning?
How much does college teach you…while you're teaching yourself in
college?
> 4.) How concerned are you with a language's political
> implications, i.e. with whether the language is open
> source or not? Why?
I'm concerned with the cost of the software apps I use. The cost is
prohibitive, and stifles what you might consider ubiquitous use. I'm
concerned that companies now have controls that keep you from copying things
like money. I'm concerned that nearly everything associated with the Web is
also associated with cookies/spyware. I am concerned that there are fascists
lurking the Web.
> 5.) Does your choice of programming lamguage effect
> the way you approach a problem you wish to solve with
> that language?
If the computer is a blank piece of paper, then a programming language or
a computer app is a tool. Knowing the tool and the attributes of the tool
should be a factor in the choice of tool used to produce the desired effect.
As long as I'm doing an analogy… code is to the computer what DNA is to
people (feel free to add to or correct this notion).
> 6.) Did you come to New Media Art from Computer
> Science or from the Arts? Discuss the transition.
If you consider BASIC computing, I hit them both at the same time.
However, I always intended an art track.
> 7.) What does programming add or subtract from an art
> object? Is the artist-programmer giving up control of
> the object by coding it, or introducing more control?
I think the programming…is the long way to get to the art. Like buy a
farm and raising sheep to make a sweater.
I think an artist/programmer generally always has control. Control being the
choices made to produce said "object." Even the decision to use an ai agent,
or bott, or whatever is part of the control. What can't be controlled is the
viewer/user's reaction to the art. Sure, some reactions can be anticipated,
but the truly interactive part of art -even static painting -is the
interaction between the viewer/user (what
Re: Thoughts on Dreaming in code
-
Type: discussion
Comments
In 2000 AD, J WROTE:::::::
> I've been going through my Rhizome folder…I've been doing tangible
> painting. More of a second head i.e., my laptop. I hope all of you
> will free to add to my text
Ben
I don't understand what it is about this set of
responses ( rather than, say, any of the others,
earlier) that incenses you so much.
There are things in the world that are worth railing
against with every satirical tool in the toolbox and
then there are rather thoughtful responses to
questionnaires.
Why this hostility?
michael
— bensyverson <[email protected]> wrote:
> In 2000 AD, J WROTE:::::::
>
> > I've been going through my Rhizome folder…I've
> been doing tangible
> > painting. More of a second head i.e., my laptop. I
> hope all of you
> > will free to add to my text
>
I think it was the rhetorical "any postmodern thoughts on this" that
somehow inspired me (in a drunken state) to [remix/respond] to that
post. Although I certainly did not intend it to read as hostile (or
even satire). I'm just as confused as you – although confusion is one
of my favorite states…
- ben
On Oct 3, 2004, at 5:16 AM, Michael Szpakowski wrote:
> Ben
> I don't understand what it is about this set of
> responses ( rather than, say, any of the others,
> earlier) that incenses you so much.
> There are things in the world that are worth railing
> against with every satirical tool in the toolbox and
> then there are rather thoughtful responses to
> questionnaires.
> Why this hostility?
> michael
>I've been doing tangible things - like painting. More of a be here
>now, than in my second head i.e., my laptop
i wish more folks felt like using a computer was a "be here now"
thing. there is immediacy and even physicality, at least to the
degree you want to incorporate it, same as painting. oft said, it's
a tool (like a paint brush or palette knife). but a tool you can sit
still using or dance around the room, just like any other.
a paint brush is a stick and nobody expects too much from it. no one
faults a stick for being dumb. often dumb things are useful.
but people think computers are "smart"? they are actually only
slightly smarter than sticks. the trick to computers and programming
(and what makes them a tiny bit smarter than a stick) is to remember
they are like the stupidest person you've ever met. you have to
explain every little detail explicitly. you can remember lists of
things with a day-timer, while computers CAN do other stuff other
tools don't. sometimes an assembly line of trained monkey's just
isn't practical.
you'd have to be ridiculously patient to write the code to make a
peanut butter and jelly sandwich. it still has to figure out how to
get the knife in the jar. but literal tasks, chains of if … then
instructions can sometimes be what you're after.
you can have a broad range of tools (painting, coding, pitching a
baseball, cooking, …) with a broad range of techniques (50
programming languages, a palette with 50 hues, 50 kinds of throws, 50
recipes) and THAT will determine the range of tasks you can
accomplish. though in computerdom, it's the norm to decide the tool,
the technique and only afterwards a task?! wether your hand wielding
the tool has a mouse, paintbrush or a baseball though, the
intelligent choices are still all going to come from you, not the
tools.
SO, what's the actual tangible, physical difference between
programming and painting? learning more computer languages isn't
more expressive but you end up with a better feel for how the tool
can be handled. Fluency is really the only thing that differentiates
them. that and an astounding miasma of hype.
fair enough! I stopped drinking years ago but I still
sometimes wake suddenly,entire fist in mouth, at the
recollection of things I did/said under the influence.
Your post did *read* pretty hostile, although there
was something quite admirable in its inexorableness
which is why I suppose 'satirical' came to mind.
best
michael
— bensyverson <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think it was the rhetorical "any postmodern
> thoughts on this" that
> somehow inspired me (in a drunken state) to
> [remix/respond] to that
> post. Although I certainly did not intend it to read
> as hostile (or
> even satire). I'm just as confused as you –
> although confusion is one
> of my favorite states…
>
> - ben
>
>
> On Oct 3, 2004, at 5:16 AM, Michael Szpakowski
> wrote:
>
> > Ben
> > I don't understand what it is about this set of
> > responses ( rather than, say, any of the others,
> > earlier) that incenses you so much.
> > There are things in the world that are worth
> railing
> > against with every satirical tool in the toolbox
> and
> > then there are rather thoughtful responses to
> > questionnaires.
> > Why this hostility?
> > michael
>
> +
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> +
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Actually Michael, I think it smacks more of elitism than my
response….oh those high-mindedd "programmers" at it again.
-=j
—–Original Message—–
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Michael Szpakowski
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 5:16 AM
To: bensyverson; [email protected]
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Thoughts on Dreaming in code
Ben
I don't understand what it is about this set of
responses ( rather than, say, any of the others,
earlier) that incenses you so much.
There are things in the world that are worth railing
against with every satirical tool in the toolbox and
then there are rather thoughtful responses to
questionnaires.
Why this hostility?
michael
— bensyverson <[email protected]> wrote:
> In 2000 AD, J WROTE:::::::
>
> 04shore. Me too. I have tried since 1989, but 04 the
> most part, I type
> in HyperTalk (sumTimes SuperTalk).
>
> >