The world desperately needs to curb Bush and Cheney

Posted by Max | Thu Sep 26th 2002 1 a.m.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/25/daschle.comments/index.html

Madeline Albright said attacking Iraq was a bad idea today; Henry Kissinger
could barely answer the Senator D-Maryland, who asked, "Is there a peaceful
way?"

Attacking Iraq is a good way to escalate war in general. US hawks want to
finish the job, Rambo-style, that they couldn't do in Vietnam etc.
Conservatives are big on war and cheating--whatever it takes to get the job
done. They don't like rules being enforced on what the military and
corporations can and can't do, the don't like civil rights. They lean
toward fewer rights for citizens against the state. Fascism is when there
are no rights of citizens against the state.

NN said there is a way to avoid the fate of the Roman Empire, and I think it
has to do with medial-axis imaging, as does G2K. Attacking Iraq without
Senate oversight, a huge open permission to do anything at all and have it
paid for, might be more effective--i.e. temporary fascism or constitutional
dictatorship might be the most humane way of going about it, the short sharp
shock, all the stuff hippies hate. There's no way to know what will work
best in advance.

Maybe it is a moot point, a quibble, because like it or not we'll all be
living under Empire of one kind or another. We'll have to become free even
from fighting against Empire; we'll have to become new kinds of beings, able
to gestate and survive the clampdown, and when we get strong enough to
evolve, we can make the step "beyond Empire" that Negri and Hardt talk
about. In this sense we might be better off not caring AT ALL about what
the US or any other gov't does--not expending our energy on it that is, even
though we find its behavior completely abhorrent.

One problem is that as long as the hope of a pan-Arab Islamic Bloc remains,
terrorists and fundamentalists will have every reason to continue what
they're doing. Kissinger said that not attacking Iraq would give
"psychological" fuel to terrorists. Terrorists like Al-Quaeda want mainly
to take over all the oil, by overthrowing all Arab governments that agree to
any level of rapprochement with the WEST, like G2K for example.

So just like War and Peace, it's a crap shoot, the same old one. Kandinskij
is saying we are idiots to be concerned with the outcome; our egos tell us
"hey make the world better kid--with art!", falsely believing we can
influence historical events that were written into the script long ago.
Certainly I saw a folk singer once at Oberlin College, Fred Smart or
something, who sang a song called "I Want A Hug", and wanted
everyone--ordered us, 19-year-olds!--to sing along, stand up, and hug each
other. No one even stood up, and he became livid. Quite amusing. He was
idiotic to think I wanted to hear a song called "I Want A Hug."

Personally I think that G2K can defuse the terrorist situation pretty well.
It can be a peaceful way. If we behave like Satan, us USA, how can we blame
anyone for treating us like Satan? It's the clever ones that will realize
we are full o' shit, and join the terrorists. But if we have a non-bullshit
culture, one that can tax and reward the faculties of even the cleverest and
most righteous of the oppressed, we can be OK.

So that would be a way of "humanizing" people, here in the Empire as well as
in barbarian lands (same diff), which is what I think NN is. Good books
are, good deeds, love, benificence, life-genius expressing itself against
the quagmire of the rotted flesh.

Imagine two people, in a conflict, who cease relation and pull out guns for
blastin. It's not always the best idea.

Or put another way, if the USA would face up to G2K, we won't have to be as
evil. Easy, but it means controlling our amygdalas, the
controlling/hazard-focused part of the brain j u s t long enough to see the
better way.

So that's where I disagree with Kandinskij and Bush. Also, I don't believe
Freud at all, he was a crude guesser/salesman, so the "ego" is really a
chemical/hormonal state and nothing more. No big deal, we can whip it.

Or not? Armageddon is also about how ego goes totally over the top, takes
everything over, destroys itself in a huge planet-killing war, and then the
non-ego-diseased rebuild. Metaphorically or literally, culturally, who
knows. It's all mixed up. But the thing about Armageddon is its globality,
a crunchdown. I think Kissinger didn't want to entertain the idea of a
peaceful way, i.e. say whether he thought there is one, because he sees no
reasonable chances of reducing ego enough to do any good, and is part of a
tradition of so-doing, which has essentially driven action-energies that
dissent to the margins to avoid avoiding the crunchdown and hence entering
it from a position of weakness.

I'm curious how the UN inspections will work out, if they'll be given a real
chance or not.

John Klima, don't you think this is reasonable? Mark Napier?

All the crap-slinging that goes on would totally be worth it if we can get
together for a big peace-initiative. Plus where's Packer's Department of
Art and Technology, Mark Amerika? Who's still on Rhizome anyway?

Plus I think Eryk can be a huge help to the project and coalition-building
among the youth. Maybe Mark Tribe can help with the old people. I can take
care of Generation X; any more volunteers, like a Catholic?

Preshy,

Max Herman
genius2000.net

++

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  • Ana Valdes | Fri Sep 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    I read on my paper today that George Bush says: "It has come to my knowledge
    that Saddam tried to murder my father in Kuwait 1993, and its make the attack
    against Irak an unic American affaire".
    The whole issue is more and more a "Wag the Dog" syndrom...
    Please, you american subscribers, Saddam was the one who almost killed the Pope,
    Saddam himself nailed Jesus in the cross, put in prison the whale Billy,
    kidnapped Elvis Presley from earth, triggered the bullet who killed Kennedy and
    Lincoln, since Saddam has been around a long time...
    Gosh, why can we not got rid of George Bush and his idiotics allies, inclusive
    the political oportunist Tony Blair?
    Ana

    Max Herman wrote:

    > http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/25/daschle.comments/index.html
    >
    > Madeline Albright said attacking Iraq was a bad idea today; Henry Kissinger
    > could barely answer the Senator D-Maryland, who asked, "Is there a peaceful
    > way?"
    >
    > Attacking Iraq is a good way to escalate war in general. US hawks want to
    > finish the job, Rambo-style, that they couldn't do in Vietnam etc.
    > Conservatives are big on war and cheating--whatever it takes to get the job
    > done. They don't like rules being enforced on what the military and
    > corporations can and can't do, the don't like civil rights. They lean
    > toward fewer rights for citizens against the state. Fascism is when there
    > are no rights of citizens against the state.
    >
    > NN said there is a way to avoid the fate of the Roman Empire, and I think it
    > has to do with medial-axis imaging, as does G2K. Attacking Iraq without
    > Senate oversight, a huge open permission to do anything at all and have it
    > paid for, might be more effective--i.e. temporary fascism or constitutional
    > dictatorship might be the most humane way of going about it, the short sharp
    > shock, all the stuff hippies hate. There's no way to know what will work
    > best in advance.
    >
    > Maybe it is a moot point, a quibble, because like it or not we'll all be
    > living under Empire of one kind or another. We'll have to become free even
    > from fighting against Empire; we'll have to become new kinds of beings, able
    > to gestate and survive the clampdown, and when we get strong enough to
    > evolve, we can make the step "beyond Empire" that Negri and Hardt talk
    > about. In this sense we might be better off not caring AT ALL about what
    > the US or any other gov't does--not expending our energy on it that is, even
    > though we find its behavior completely abhorrent.
    >
    > One problem is that as long as the hope of a pan-Arab Islamic Bloc remains,
    > terrorists and fundamentalists will have every reason to continue what
    > they're doing. Kissinger said that not attacking Iraq would give
    > "psychological" fuel to terrorists. Terrorists like Al-Quaeda want mainly
    > to take over all the oil, by overthrowing all Arab governments that agree to
    > any level of rapprochement with the WEST, like G2K for example.
    >
    > So just like War and Peace, it's a crap shoot, the same old one. Kandinskij
    > is saying we are idiots to be concerned with the outcome; our egos tell us
    > "hey make the world better kid--with art!", falsely believing we can
    > influence historical events that were written into the script long ago.
    > Certainly I saw a folk singer once at Oberlin College, Fred Smart or
    > something, who sang a song called "I Want A Hug", and wanted
    > everyone--ordered us, 19-year-olds!--to sing along, stand up, and hug each
    > other. No one even stood up, and he became livid. Quite amusing. He was
    > idiotic to think I wanted to hear a song called "I Want A Hug."
    >
    > Personally I think that G2K can defuse the terrorist situation pretty well.
    > It can be a peaceful way. If we behave like Satan, us USA, how can we blame
    > anyone for treating us like Satan? It's the clever ones that will realize
    > we are full o' shit, and join the terrorists. But if we have a non-bullshit
    > culture, one that can tax and reward the faculties of even the cleverest and
    > most righteous of the oppressed, we can be OK.
    >
    > So that would be a way of "humanizing" people, here in the Empire as well as
    > in barbarian lands (same diff), which is what I think NN is. Good books
    > are, good deeds, love, benificence, life-genius expressing itself against
    > the quagmire of the rotted flesh.
    >
    > Imagine two people, in a conflict, who cease relation and pull out guns for
    > blastin. It's not always the best idea.
    >
    > Or put another way, if the USA would face up to G2K, we won't have to be as
    > evil. Easy, but it means controlling our amygdalas, the
    > controlling/hazard-focused part of the brain j u s t long enough to see the
    > better way.
    >
    > So that's where I disagree with Kandinskij and Bush. Also, I don't believe
    > Freud at all, he was a crude guesser/salesman, so the "ego" is really a
    > chemical/hormonal state and nothing more. No big deal, we can whip it.
    >
    > Or not? Armageddon is also about how ego goes totally over the top, takes
    > everything over, destroys itself in a huge planet-killing war, and then the
    > non-ego-diseased rebuild. Metaphorically or literally, culturally, who
    > knows. It's all mixed up. But the thing about Armageddon is its globality,
    > a crunchdown. I think Kissinger didn't want to entertain the idea of a
    > peaceful way, i.e. say whether he thought there is one, because he sees no
    > reasonable chances of reducing ego enough to do any good, and is part of a
    > tradition of so-doing, which has essentially driven action-energies that
    > dissent to the margins to avoid avoiding the crunchdown and hence entering
    > it from a position of weakness.
    >
    > I'm curious how the UN inspections will work out, if they'll be given a real
    > chance or not.
    >
    > John Klima, don't you think this is reasonable? Mark Napier?
    >
    > All the crap-slinging that goes on would totally be worth it if we can get
    > together for a big peace-initiative. Plus where's Packer's Department of
    > Art and Technology, Mark Amerika? Who's still on Rhizome anyway?
    >
    > Plus I think Eryk can be a huge help to the project and coalition-building
    > among the youth. Maybe Mark Tribe can help with the old people. I can take
    > care of Generation X; any more volunteers, like a Catholic?
    >
    > Preshy,
    >
    > Max Herman
    > genius2000.net
    >
    > ++
    >
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    > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
    > http://www.hotmail.com
    >
    > + death sucks
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    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
  • MTAA | Fri Sep 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    >Gosh, why can we not got rid of George Bush and his idiotics allies, inclusive
    >the political oportunist Tony Blair?
    >Ana
    >

    we voters in the US can get rid of Bush. but we have to wait until
    the next presidential election 2004.

    --
    <twhid>
    http://www.mteww.com
    </twhid>
  • Wally Keeler | Fri Sep 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "t.whid" <twhid@mteww.com>
    > >Gosh, why can we not got rid of George Bush and his idiotics allies,
    inclusive
    > >the political oportunist Tony Blair?
    > >Ana
    >
    > we voters in the US can get rid of Bush. but we have to wait until
    > the next presidential election 2004.

    Interestingly, what cannot be gotten rid of, are dictators.
    Dictators are sacrosanct for the sanctimonious.

    POETRY IS POETENCY!
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Wally Keeler wrote:

    > POETRY IS POETENCY!

    Rather the reverse.
  • clement Thomas | Sat Sep 28th 2002 1 a.m.
    riverse of no return

    --
    OG
    chabadabada

    "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" a *crit :

    > On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Wally Keeler wrote:
    >
    > > POETRY IS POETENCY!
    >
    > Rather the reverse.
    >
    > + AFK, tornado
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
  • Wally Keeler | Sat Sep 28th 2002 1 a.m.
    Sub verse to re-verse

    POETRY IS POETENCY!

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "clement Thomas - pavu.com" <ctgr@free.fr>
    To: <list@rhizome.org>
    Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 4:10 AM
    Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The world desperately needs to curb Bush and
    Cheney

    > riverse of no return
    > --
    > OG
    > chabadabada
    >
    > "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" a *crit :
    >
    > > On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Wally Keeler wrote:
    > >
    > > > POETRY IS POETENCY!
    > >
    > > Rather the reverse.
    > >
    > > + AFK, tornado
    > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > +
    > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    > + AFK, tornado
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
  • Max Herman | Sat Sep 28th 2002 1 a.m.
    Well, if Bush gets the war his way, he'll have triumphed, regardless of '04.
    You see, once you start it, there's no option for stopping it till it
    plays out.

    It is most certain that elections alone do not guarantee freedom, or
    justice, democracy, or goodness, or the ability to "take it all back and
    start over."

    Way I see, Democrats like to let the Republicans do the dirty work, and then
    play all band-aid like, for example Clinton put a band-aid on Reaganism.

    Essentially the problems of the world are fucking off the scale in every
    department. Bush is saying "the best solution is war." The public is
    behind it, and Congress is scared shitless, because Bush is quite a powerful
    executive branch--unprecedented really.

    By '04 all this shit will have gone down, voting won't matter at all on this
    question.

    Mark Shields said it well, "only a massive change in US public opinion can
    prevent the war on Iraq." Lehrer Newshour.

    >From: "Wally Keeler" <poetburo@sympatico.ca>
    >Reply-To: "Wally Keeler" <poetburo@sympatico.ca>
    >To: "t.whid" <twhid@mteww.com>, <list@rhizome.org>
    >Subject: Re: RHIZOME\_RAW: The world desperately needs to curb Bush and
    >Cheney
    >Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 18:11:29 -0400
    >
    >----- Original Message -----
    >From: "t.whid" <twhid@mteww.com>
    > > >Gosh, why can we not got rid of George Bush and his idiotics allies,
    >inclusive
    > > >the political oportunist Tony Blair?
    > > >Ana
    > >
    > > we voters in the US can get rid of Bush. but we have to wait until
    > > the next presidential election 2004.
    >
    >Interestingly, what cannot be gotten rid of, are dictators.
    >Dictators are sacrosanct for the sanctimonious.
    >
    >POETRY IS POETENCY!
    >
    >+ AFK, tornado
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

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  • D42 Kandinskij | Wed Oct 2nd 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Max Herman wrote:

    > Essentially the problems of the world are fucking off the scale in every
    > department. Bush is saying "the best solution is war."

    Sure is. Brute human behavior, steaks, and entertainmnt.
    Justified murder is the order par excellence, and the biggest
    shark winz. Arr.
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