Flash Explores New Angles

Posted by MTAA | Sun Aug 18th 2002 1 a.m.

Flash Explores New Angles
Macromedia's Flash MX allows users to do a number of cool tricks,
including switching instantaneously between video clips.

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,54599,00.html

++
this isn't the best article but it remindend me that when i first read
flash MX's specs i was excited about what i imagined net / web artists
might do with video and actionscript. and i'm dissappointed that i
haven't seen anything yet.

one might say, "well twhid, where is *your* new cool interactive video
flash shiznitz?" and my reply would be, "errr, ummm" so yeah, i'm part
of the problem (tho, in my defence, MTAA have been working on big
installation project and we did take advantage of MX's ability to
dynamically load MP3s with this piece: http://www.mteww.com/RAM/)

i was hoping net / web artists would blaze the way but it seems to be
that the commercial work is more experimental.

why do you think no net / web artists are exploring these new
possibilities? or are they and i've missed it; URLs? (please hold your
flash is evil corporate software comments; they're tiresome)
--
<t.whid>
http://www.mteww.com
</t.whid>
  • Jess Loseby | Sun Aug 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    Hi,
    personally I think probably that part of the problem with the (under)
    utilize of MX is sadly down to cost (ho hum). Flash in itself is just about
    affordable to general artists but the three cameras, people to shoot the
    film, editing equipment (virtual dub which I use is free and fab but just
    not up to this) to create the kinds of bullet time/interactive video they
    are talking about here is just too far out of your average net artists
    reach - but just right for mr corporate design-a-web. Having said that
    the time keeps getting shorter between what is affordable to the
    industry and what is afforable for the individual is possible so I would
    guess that more is round the corner. I have just begun to play with
    video in MX (though not the interactive capabilities as yet).but still in the
    'ooh this is cool!' stage playing (eg making my daughter swim across an
    page like some weird cyber fish hee! hee!). At the risk of starting a why
    are net artists never paid debate, the double edged sword of the
    equality of the net artist (ie anyone can be one regardless of age
    background location etc) is perhaps that 'everyone' tends to be on
    'normal' or less (for their age, background, location etc) income and
    can't afford all the gear. In this respect the net artist will always be
    playing catch-up with the corporate boys....
    jess.
    > Flash Explores New Angles
    > Macromedia's Flash MX allows users to do a number of cool tricks,
    > including switching instantaneously between video clips.
    new work: 'light from the machine'
    http://www.rssgallery.com/lightfromthemachine.html o
    /^ rssgallery.com
    ][
  • Muserna Muserna | Sun Aug 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    on 8/18/02 1:16 PM, t.whid twhid@mteww.com ecrit :

    > Flash Explores New Angles
    > Macromedia's Flash MX allows users to do a number of cool tricks,
    > including switching instantaneously between video clips.
    >
    > http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,54599,00.html
    >
    > ++
    > this isn't the best article but it remindend me that when i first read
    > flash MX's specs i was excited about what i imagined net / web artists
    > might do with video and actionscript. and i'm dissappointed that i
    > haven't seen anything yet.

    It's not the tricks that artist necessarily create their art around. That's
    only second to the content. Maybe no one (at this particular moment in time)
    has any ideas that can make use this technology.

    - -

    "The technique gives "a better view than you'd get if you were actually
    there," he said. "If you were in the stands, you'd get one angle
  • MTAA | Sun Aug 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    > Hi,
    > personally I think probably that part of the problem with the (under)
    > utilize of MX is sadly down to cost (ho hum). Flash in itself is just
    > about
    > affordable to general artists but the three cameras, people to shoot
    the
    > film, editing equipment (virtual dub which I use is free and fab but
    > just
    > not up to this) to create the kinds of bullet time/interactive video
    > they
    > are talking about here is just too far out of your average net artists
    > reach - but just right for mr corporate design-a-web.

    hi jess,

    i agree. one needs a fair amount of hardware and software just to get to
    the stage where one would integrate it into the MX authoring environment
    to do interactive bullet time stuff.

    ~but~

    i wasn't necessarily saying that artists should do this Matrix-style
    thing (tho i wasn't clear), which is being done to death in movies,
    videos, and commercials anyway.

    there are lots of other possibilities that don't involve anymore than a
    vid camera and flashMX mixed with creativity and actionscript knowledge.
    i can't list them because i don't know what they are; i was looking
    forward to a net / web artist doing something innovative with it and no
    one seems to have done anything yet.

    but i'm sure someone will and it will be much more interesting than
    interactive bullet time.

    Having said that
    > the time keeps getting shorter between what is affordable to the
    > industry and what is afforable for the individual is possible so I
    would
    > guess that more is round the corner.

    back in the earlier days of net / web art the artists *were* the
    innovators. look at requiem for a dream's site... could it have looked
    so cool and hip without net artist's exploring the aesthetic before the
    commercial project? imo no.

    take care

    I have just begun to play with
    > video in MX (though not the interactive capabilities as yet).but still
    > in the
    > 'ooh this is cool!' stage playing (eg making my daughter swim across
    an
    > page like some weird cyber fish hee! hee!). At the risk of starting a
    > why
    > are net artists never paid debate, the double edged sword of the
    > equality of the net artist (ie anyone can be one regardless of age
    > background location etc) is perhaps that 'everyone' tends to be on
    > 'normal' or less (for their age, background, location etc) income
    and
    > can't afford all the gear. In this respect the net artist will always
    be
    > playing catch-up with the corporate boys....
    > jess.
    > > Flash Explores New Angles
    > > Macromedia's Flash MX allows users to do a number of cool tricks,
    > > including switching instantaneously between video clips.
    > new work: 'light from the machine'
    > http://www.rssgallery.com/lightfromthemachine.html o
    > /^ rssgallery.com
    > ][
    >
    >
    >
    >
    --
    <t.whid>
    http://www.mteww.com
    </t.whid>
  • Lewis LaCook | Mon Aug 19th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    in my poetry generator i used actionscript to do this, but it was less about changing angles and more about changing background:
    http://www.lewislacook.com/pogen3.html

    i've been using mx's video capabilities for awhile now...not that anyone's been paying attention....
    bliss
    l
  • Lewis LaCook | Mon Aug 19th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    actually, if you wanted to really work at it, you could do the same thing in flash 5, if the video was quick time, and you were willing to import it, export it as a jpeg sequence, and import it again====the code to switch from one clip to another is really simple,/////one of the exciting things about MX is the fact that it allows you to work with a wider range of video options====i've been collaborating with alan sondheim, and i use his video a lot...

    but i'm not into versimiltude...i have no desire to create a composite "switch angles" sorta thing...not my aesthetic...but i have done this...
    bliss
    l
  • Jess Loseby | Tue Aug 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    sent to me as part of the flash debate. preload is a bit of a 'mare but the
    work is just bloody brilliant. i'm packing my bags....
    jess.

    > mx
    >
    > http://www.iamstatic.com/randy/love_me
    >
    > randy Knott
    >
    > http://iamstatic.com
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Jess Loseby" <jess@rssgallery.com>
    > To: "t.whid" <twhid@mteww.com>; <list@rhizome.org>
    > Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 3:02 PM
    > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Flash Explores New Angles
    >
    >
    > > Hi,
    > > personally I think probably that part of the problem with the (under)
    > > utilize of MX is sadly down to cost (ho hum). Flash in itself is just
    > about
    > > affordable to general artists but the three cameras, people to shoot the
    > > film, editing equipment (virtual dub which I use is free and fab but just
    > > not up to this) to create the kinds of bullet time/interactive video they
    > > are talking about here is just too far out of your average net artists
    > > reach - but just right for mr corporate design-a-web. Having said that
    > > the time keeps getting shorter between what is affordable to the
    > > industry and what is afforable for the individual is possible so I would
    > > guess that more is round the corner. I have just begun to play with
    > > video in MX (though not the interactive capabilities as yet).but still in
    > the
    > > 'ooh this is cool!' stage playing (eg making my daughter swim across an
    > > page like some weird cyber fish hee! hee!). At the risk of starting a why
    > > are net artists never paid debate, the double edged sword of the
    > > equality of the net artist (ie anyone can be one regardless of age
    > > background location etc) is perhaps that 'everyone' tends to be on
    > > 'normal' or less (for their age, background, location etc) income and
    > > can't afford all the gear. In this respect the net artist will always be
    > > playing catch-up with the corporate boys....
    > > jess.
    > > > Flash Explores New Angles
    > > > Macromedia's Flash MX allows users to do a number of cool tricks,
    > > > including switching instantaneously between video clips.
    > > new work: 'light from the machine'
    > > http://www.rssgallery.com/lightfromthemachine.html o
    > > /^ rssgallery.com
    > > ][
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > + sure it's barring in balls, n'est-ce pas ?
    > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > +
    > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > >
    >

    o
    /^ rssgallery.com
    ][
  • marc garrett | Tue Aug 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    Don't pack your bags yet Jess,

    I sort of enjoyed its presentation but it did not make me feel that
    stimulated intellectually or emotionally or politically or conceptually -
    mainly because it seemed like a pop video, and how many of those have we
    seen? Loads of the buggers. I think, use the media but rip it apart at the
    same time, deconstruct it, break it, use it against itself.

    marc

    > sent to me as part of the flash debate. preload is a bit of a 'mare but
    the
    > work is just bloody brilliant. i'm packing my bags....
    > jess.
    >
    > > mx
    > >
    > > http://www.iamstatic.com/randy/love_me
    > >
    > > randy Knott
    > >
    > > http://iamstatic.com
    > >
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: "Jess Loseby" <jess@rssgallery.com>
    > > To: "t.whid" <twhid@mteww.com>; <list@rhizome.org>
    > > Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 3:02 PM
    > > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Flash Explores New Angles
    > >
    > >
    > > > Hi,
    > > > personally I think probably that part of the problem with the (under)
    > > > utilize of MX is sadly down to cost (ho hum). Flash in itself is just
    > > about
    > > > affordable to general artists but the three cameras, people to shoot
    the
    > > > film, editing equipment (virtual dub which I use is free and fab but
    just
    > > > not up to this) to create the kinds of bullet time/interactive video
    they
    > > > are talking about here is just too far out of your average net artists
    > > > reach - but just right for mr corporate design-a-web. Having said that
    > > > the time keeps getting shorter between what is affordable to the
    > > > industry and what is afforable for the individual is possible so I
    would
    > > > guess that more is round the corner. I have just begun to play with
    > > > video in MX (though not the interactive capabilities as yet).but still
    in
    > > the
    > > > 'ooh this is cool!' stage playing (eg making my daughter swim across
    an
    > > > page like some weird cyber fish hee! hee!). At the risk of starting a
    why
    > > > are net artists never paid debate, the double edged sword of the
    > > > equality of the net artist (ie anyone can be one regardless of age
    > > > background location etc) is perhaps that 'everyone' tends to be on
    > > > 'normal' or less (for their age, background, location etc) income
    and
    > > > can't afford all the gear. In this respect the net artist will always
    be
    > > > playing catch-up with the corporate boys....
    > > > jess.
    > > > > Flash Explores New Angles
    > > > > Macromedia's Flash MX allows users to do a number of cool tricks,
    > > > > including switching instantaneously between video clips.
    > > > new work: 'light from the machine'
    > > > http://www.rssgallery.com/lightfromthemachine.html o
    > > > /^ rssgallery.com
    > > > ][
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > + sure it's barring in balls, n'est-ce pas ?
    > > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > > +
    > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > > Membership Agreement available online at
    http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > > >
    > >
    >
    > o
    > /^ rssgallery.com
    > ][
    >
    >
    >
    > + this isn't a flame war, idiot
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >
  • Muserna Muserna | Tue Aug 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    on 8/20/02 6:22 AM, Jess Loseby jess@rssgallery.com ecrit :

    > sent to me as part of the flash debate. preload is a bit of a 'mare but the
    > work is just bloody brilliant. i'm packing my bags....
    > jess.
    >
    >> mx
    >>
    >> http://www.iamstatic.com/randy/love_me
    >>
    >> randy Knott

    Can I have this send to me on CDROM?

    -muserna
  • portholeaccel | Tue Aug 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    has that not already been done with post structural cinema.(video) i mean turning it agianst itself at this point seems hypocritical kinda like radiohead. or the faint. why they rack in the money and the fame. i hate capitalism but look i am star because of all its toys and will make all its toys say bad things about itself ewwwww funny ha ha that to me seems hypocritical and rather absurd right now.i enjoyed the piece though i wish it would have been a little more plastic a little more korperwelten or the virtual human now that is interesting and the issues that are presented there are important to the human evilution.

    Don't pack your bags yet Jess,

    I sort of enjoyed its presentation but it did not make me feel that
    stimulated intellectually or emotionally or politically or conceptually -
    mainly because it seemed like a pop video, and how many of those have we
    seen? Loads of the buggers. I think, use the media but rip it apart at the
    same time, deconstruct it, break it, use it against itself.

    marc

    > sent to me as part of the flash debate. preload is a bit of a 'mare but
    the
    > work is just bloody brilliant. i'm packing my bags....
    > jess.
    >
    > > mx
    > >
    > > http://www.iamstatic.com/randy/love_me
    > >
    > > randy Knott
    > >
    > > http://iamstatic.com
    > >
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: "Jess Loseby"
    > > To: "t.whid" ;

    > > Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 3:02 PM
    > > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Flash Explores New Angles
    > >
    > >
    > > > Hi,
    > > > personally I think probably that part of the problem with the (under)
    > > > utilize of MX is sadly down to cost (ho hum). Flash in itself is just
    > > about
    > > > affordable to general artists but the three cameras, people to shoot
    the
    > > > film, editing equipment (virtual dub which I use is free and fab but
    just
    > > > not up to this) to create the kinds of bullet time/interactive video
    they
    > > > are talking about here is just too far out of your average net artists
    > > > reach - but just right for mr corporate design-a-web. Having said that
    > > > the time keeps getting shorter between what is affordable to the
    > > > industry and what is afforable for the individual is possible so I
    would
    > > > guess that more is round the corner. I have just begun to play with
    > > > video in MX (though not the interactive capabilities as yet).but still
    in
    > > the
    > > > 'ooh this is cool!' stage playing (eg making my daughter swim across
    an
    > > > page like some weird cyber fish hee! hee!). At the risk of starting a
    why
    > > > are net artists never paid debate, the double edged sword of the
    > > > equality of the net artist (ie anyone can be one regardless of age
    > > > background location etc) is perhaps that 'everyone' tends to be on
    > > > 'normal' or less (for their age, background, location etc) income
    and
    > > > can't afford all the gear. In this respect the net artist will always
    be
    > > > playing catch-up with the corporate boys....
    > > > jess.
    > > > > Flash Explores New Angles
    > > > > Macromedia's Flash MX allows users to do a number of cool tricks,
    > > > > including switching instantaneously between video clips.
    > > > new work: 'light from the machine'
    > > > http://www.rssgallery.com/lightfromthemachine.html o
    > > > /^ rssgallery.com
    > > > ][
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > + sure it's barring in balls, n'est-ce pas ?
    > > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > > +
    > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > > Membership Agreement available online at
    http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > > >
    > >
    >
    > o
    > /^ rssgallery.com
    > ][
    >
    >
    >
    > + this isn't a flame war, idiot
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >

    + this isn't a flame war, idiot
    -> post: list@rhizome.org
    -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    +
    Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    FRESH FISH

    CHINESE TAKE AWAY

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  • Eryk Salvaggio | Tue Aug 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    There is a link to a flash piece called http://www.aisforapple.net,
    which is really great, off of the piece you guys are discussing.

    The piece you guys are all looking at comes across to me as really
    pro-life [as in "anti-choice"], and it had things that look like maggots
    on it, which I don't like very much. It's fantastic execution, but
    sometimes you can't get beyond vague pro-life insinuations, especially
    when they are covered with stuff that looks like maggots.

    I'm just one guy and all, but here's a tip for flash, if anyone out
    there is looking for tips [if you aren't, stop reading now, lest I
    infect you with my opinions and make you feel like you are making art
    "incorrectly"] but if you listen to synthesizer music that tries to
    sound like horns it sounds cheesy. If you listen to synthesizer music
    that sounds like synthesizers- or I guess you could say arpeggiators or
    tone generators or whatever, and you don't pretend it is something else,
    then it comes out in its own language. There is an organic sense to the
    digital if you let it come out and "work with the grain."

    Blahblah,
    -e.

    natalie myers wrote:

    > has that not already been done with post structural cinema.(video) i
    > mean turning it agianst itself at this point seems hypocritical kinda
    > like radiohead. or the faint. why they rack in the money and the fame.
    > i hate capitalism but look i am star because of all its toys and will
    > make all its toys say bad things about itself ewwwww funny ha ha that
    > to me seems hypocritical and rather absurd right now.i enjoyed the
    > piece though i wish it would have been a little more plastic a little
    > more korperwelten or the virtual human now that is interesting and the
    > issues that are presented there are important to the human evilution.
    >
    > Don't pack your bags yet Jess,
    >
    > I sort of enjoyed its presentation but it did not make me feel that
    > stimulated intellectually or emotionally or politically or conceptually -
    > mainly because it seemed like a pop video, and how many of those have we
    > seen? Loads of the buggers. I think, use the media but rip it apart at the
    > same time, deconstruct it, break it, use it against itself.
    >
    > marc
    >
    >
    > > sent to me as part of the flash debate. preload is a bit of a 'mare but
    > the
    > > work is just bloody brilliant. i'm packing my bags....
    > > jess.
    > >
    > > > mx
    > > >
    > > > http://www.iamstatic.com/randy/love_me
    > > >
    > > > randy Knott
    > > >
    > > > http://iamstatic.com
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > > From: "Jess Loseby"
    > > > To: "t.whid" ;
    > > > Sent: Sunday, August 18, 200! 2 3:02 PM
    > > > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Flash Explores New Angles
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Hi,
    > > > > personally I think probably that part of the problem with the
    > (under)
    > > > > utilize of MX is sadly down to cost (ho hum). Flash in itself is
    > just
    > > > about
    > > > > affordable to general artists but the three cameras, people to shoot
    > the
    > > > > film, editing equipment (virtual dub which I use is free and fab but
    > just
    > > > > not up to this) to create the kinds of bullet time/interactive video
    > they
    > > > > are talking about here is just too far out of your average net
    > artists
    > > > > reach - but just right for mr corporate design-a-web. Having
    > said that
    > > > > the time keeps getting shorter between what is affordable to the
    > > > > industry and what is afforable for the individual is possible so I
    > would
    > > > > guess that mor! e is round the corner. I have just begun to play
    > with
    > > > > video in MX (though not the interactive capabilities as yet).but
    > still
    > in
    > > > the
    > > > > 'ooh this is cool!' stage playing (eg making my daughter swim across
    > an
    > > > > page like some weird cyber fish hee! hee!). At the risk of
    > starting a
    > why
    > > > > are net artists never paid debate, the double edged sword of the
    > > > > equality of the net artist (ie anyone can be one regardless of age
    > > > > background location etc) is perhaps that 'everyone' tends to be on
    > > > > 'normal' or less (for their age, background, location etc) income
    > and
    > > > > can't afford all the gear. In this respect the net artist will
    > always
    > be
    > > > > playing catch-up with the corporate boys....
    > > > > jess.
    > > > > > Flash Explores New Angles
    > > > > > Macromedia's Flash MX allows users to ! do a number of cool
    > tricks,
    > > > > > including switching instantaneously between video clips.
    > > > > new work: 'light from the machine'
    > > > > http://www.rssgallery.com/lightfromthemachine.html o
    > > > > /^ rssgallery.com
    > > > > ][
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > + sure it's barring in balls, n'est-ce pas ?
    > > > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > > > +
    > > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > > > Membership Agreement available online at
    > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > o
    > > /^ rssgallery.com
    > > ][
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > + this isn't a fl! ame war, idiot
    > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > +
    > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > + this isn't a flame war, idiot
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    >
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  • Max Herman | Tue Aug 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    In a message dated 8/20/2002 3:03:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
    eryk@maine.rr.com writes:

    > There is an organic sense to the digital if you let it come out and "work
    > with the grain."

    Hey, that reminds of a pal I had who wanted to design vinyl siding "that
    doesn't hide its vinylness."

    It also relates to chess, where you have to go with the soul of the position,
    as I illustrate in this recent victory:

    1. e4 d5
    2. d4 dxe4
    3. f3 exf3
    4. Nxf3 Nc6
    5. Be3 e6
    6. Bd3 Nf6
    7. 0-0 g6
    8. Nbd2 Bg7
    9. c3 0-0
    10. Qe2 Ne7
    11. Nc4 Ng4
    12. Bd2 f5
    13. h3 Nf6
    14. Nce5 b6
    15. Nh4 Bb7
    16. Rae1 Be4
    17. Bg5 Bxd3
    18. Nxd3 Ne4
    19. Bxe7 Qxe7
    20. Nxf5 exf5
    21. Rxf5
    White resigns
    0-1
    Herm wins
    sideshowbob 1702 loses

    ++
  • MTAA | Tue Aug 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    i'd like to go on record that i hated this piece. i didn't watch half
    of it. extremely boring.

    if i had been on a dialup, i'd have felt totally ripped off as
    opposed to just ripped off ;-)

    > >
    ><http://www.iamstatic.com/randy/love_me>http://www.iamstatic.com/randy/love_me
    > >
    > > randy Knott
    > >
    > > <http://iamstatic.com>http://iamstatic.com
    > >
    > >

    --
    <twhid>
    http://www.mteww.com
    </twhid>
  • Jess Loseby | Tue Aug 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    I think i'd better expand on my 'bloody brilliant comment...
    what I liked about the piece was the ideas in the mixing the video, textual and still
    elements and the possibility
    (if you have the time and the know-how) of how this could be pushed further and
    that this kind of smooth mixed-media delivery is possible even with a flash which
    is not always as slick as it claims to be.
    To be honest, the content washed over me. I didn't get the maggot/pro-choice stuff eryk
    picked up on - too busy looking at the video/mx elements which it was given as an
    example of. Odd for me as I am usually very strict on my content>tech rule. It did have a
    pop-video feel but there was some narrative going on and a darkness that always
    appeals to me. I thought on the whole the choice of imagery was effective (except the
    last one with the 'floating baby' which I have to admit was a bit pants.)
    The second link which eryk posted
    was different. For a start i just can't be doing with all the pre-loads, drives me nuts. I
    am quite strict in my dogma that preload should be under 45secs or worked 'into' the
    artwork as a whole (like some of e8z work) Probably this is because I work all of 3 miles
    outside of a city which means I won't get broadband until 3003 at the earliest. To get a
    plug in to see a flash piece is free, to gain a faster connection is not. For me, that has
    got to be a consideration in making work. Otherwise the piece still was pretty nice in its
    use of tech but much more 'graphic-y' and less 'arty' than the other and the whole thing
    just wasn't my thing.
    However, I still say first piece is brilliant. (pre-load excluding) in terms of what can be
    done with video, actionscript and enough time. Going back to t.whids comments about
    why nobodies using video it does makes me think I'm just not pushing what could be
    done with MX more... (although ironically I've just noticed t.whids latest email saying it's
    crap).
    oh well.
    o
    /^ rssgallery.com
    ][
  • Pall Thayer | Tue Aug 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    I saw this guy present some of his stuff a couple of months ago and he
    had some really nice pieces but I agree. This was not one of the better
    ones.

    Hinn 20.08.2002 kl. 20:34 ritadhi t.whid:

    > i'd like to go on record that i hated this piece. i didn't watch half
    > of it. extremely boring.
    >
    > if i had been on a dialup, i'd have felt totally ripped off as opposed
    > to just ripped off ;-)
    >
    > > > http://www.iamstatic.com/randy/love_me
    > > >
    > > > randy Knott
    > > >
    > > > http://iamstatic.com
    > > >
    > > >
    >
    > --
    >
    > <twhid>
    > http://www.mteww.com
    > </twhid>
    >
    _____________________________________
    Pall Thayer
    myndlistamadhur/kennari
    artist/teacher
    Fjolbrautaskolanum vidh Armula (www.fa.is)
    http://www.this.is/pallit
    _____________________________________
  • marc garrett | Tue Aug 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    Hi Natalie

    'has that not already been done with post structural cinema'

    When you kiss a loved one and you wish to kiss them again because it felt r=
    eal and it possessed substance - one should kiss again. For it will feel di=
    fferent, because time does not stand still, therefore the context changes. =
    When you walk on a beach, treading your feet into the sand, I think it was =
    Brecht who said 'you can never stand in the same place twice', (something l=
    ike that) the sea washes your foot prints away.

    Technology offers many options of reevaluating what has been done already, =
    in a new context just by creating artwork, anything in fact via the compute=
    r. So yes, do it again, why not? It might mean much more now...

    It is not hypocritical to question the politics of a medium, and you might =
    of noticed that I do not use it myself. I might do though, depends how I fe=
    el really. Might wanna use it to see what it feels like, yep, I might just =
    do that. It will question my own presumptions.

    marc

    has that not already been done with post structural cinema.(video) i mean=
    turning it agianst itself at this point seems hypocritical kinda like radi=
    ohead. or the faint. why they rack in the money and the fame. i hate capita=
    lism but look i am star because of all its toys and will make all its toys =
    say bad things about itself ewwwww funny ha ha that to me seems hypocritica=
    l and rather absurd right now.i enjoyed the piece though i wish it would ha=
    ve been a little more plastic a little more korperwelten or the virtual hum=
    an now that is interesting and the issues that are presented there are impo=
    rtant to the human evilution.

    Don't pack your bags yet Jess,

    I sort of enjoyed its presentation but it did not make me feel that
    stimulated intellectually or emotionally or politically or conceptually -
    mainly because it seemed like a pop video, and how many of those have we
    seen? Loads of the buggers. I think, use the media but rip it apart at the
    same time, deconstruct it, break it, use it against itself.

    marc

    > sent to me as part of the flash debate. preload is a bit of a 'mare but
    the
    > work is just bloody brilliant. i'm packing my bags....
    > jess.
    >
    > > mx
    > >
    > > http://www.iamstatic.com/randy/love_me
    > >
    > > randy Knott
    > >
    > > http://iamstatic.com
    > >
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: "Jess Loseby"
    > > To: "t.whid" ;
    > > Sent: Sunday, August 18, 200! 2 3:02 PM
    > > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Flash Explores New Angles
    > >
    > >
    > > > Hi,
    > > > personally I think probably that part of the problem with the (unde=
    r)
    > > > utilize of MX is sadly down to cost (ho hum). Flash in itself is ju=
    st
    > > about
    > > > affordable to general artists but the three cameras, people to shoot
    the
    > > > film, editing equipment (virtual dub which I use is free and fab but
    just
    > > > not up to this) to create the kinds of bullet time/interactive video
    they
    > > > are talking about here is just too far out of your average net arti=
    sts
    > > > reach - but just right for mr corporate design-a-web. Having said t=
    hat
    > > > the time keeps getting shorter between what is affordable to the
    > > > industry and what is afforable for the individual is possible so I
    would
    > > > guess that mor! e is round the corner. I have just begun to play wi=
    th
    > > > video in MX (though not the interactive capabilities as yet).but st=
    ill
    in
    > > the
    > > > 'ooh this is cool!' stage playing (eg making my daughter swim across
    an
    > > > page like some weird cyber fish hee! hee!). At the risk of starting=
    a
    why
    > > > are net artists never paid debate, the double edged sword of the
    > > > equality of the net artist (ie anyone can be one regardless of age
    > > > background location etc) is perhaps that 'everyone' tends to be on
    > > > 'normal' or less (for their age, background, location etc) income
    and
    > > > can't afford all the gear. In this respect the net artist will alwa=
    ys
    be
    > > > playing catch-up with the corporate boys....
    > > > jess.
    > > > > Flash Explores New Angles
    > > > > Macromedia's Flash MX allows users to ! do a number of cool trick=
    s,
    > > > > including switching instantaneously between video clips.
    > > > new work: 'light from the machine'
    > > > http://www.rssgallery.com/lightfromthemachine.html o
    > > > /^ rssgallery.com
    > > > ][
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > + sure it's barring in balls, n'est-ce pas ?
    > > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > > +
    > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > > Membership Agreement available online at
    http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > > >
    > >
    >
    > o
    > /^ rssgallery.com
    > ][
    >
    >
    >
    > + this isn't a fl! ame war, idiot
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >

    + this isn't a flame war, idiot
    -> post: list@rhizome.org
    -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    +
    Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    FRESH FISH

    CHINESE TAKE AWAY

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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  • Plasma Studii | Tue Aug 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    >To be honest, the content washed over me.

    sounds kinda like cartoons. (wonder how internationally syndicated
    these were though) Betty Boop in 1929 (there was no tv show but she
    continued till about 1936 I think, but cutesy and less weird) and
    Bullwinkle (from the 70s). BB was full of gorgeous art but the
    scripts were so awful, they were kind of funny. Bullwinkle is the
    opposite. Brilliant scripts by Jay Ward and terrible drawings. But
    the fact they were so bad made it a little funnier. We give more
    attention to the fancy part.

    cartoons had just one too many elements than we could concentrate on.
    The ones we remember struck a good balance, but most died out. But
    multimedia has about a dozen too many. Showing off techno ability is
    just one of them. Perhaps the only way to make beautiful (as in
    plain old visually striking) Flash stuff is to do it with as little
    technical glitz as possible. Maybe us techno heads are just barking
    up the wrong tree. No effect, other than to convince the less
    technically oriented to learn to be more techno. Those people were
    already well on their way before we went and screwed everything up.

    >I didn't get the maggot/pro-choice stuff eryk
    >picked up on - too busy looking at the video/mx elements

    which is a fantastic way to make computer art look as dorky as
    possible in a few years when the techno-fad wears off! keep those
    tools in the picture. So much, they appear to be the subject (or
    just upstage it) Artists should try to make their stuff groovy, not
    rely on Macromedia to make something have groovy-ness appeal by
    wearing their label.

    >all the pre-loads, drives me nuts

    and what is it about Flash that seems to beg for that stuff? 50k
    .swf/.dcr/.jar files or less are plenty doable. But what's all this
    wasted fluff for? there are a lot of 450+k artsy fartsy equivalents
    of fading logos with music intros. People love to waste. They'll
    waste anything they can get away with. It's not their fault. I
    blame society. We put up with/encourage that sort of behavior.

    Broadband is like this cure-all. All that will happen is what has
    been happening for years now. As the connections get wider, the
    files get just a little bigger than that. It's not actually ever
    going to end. Does anyone foresee Bill Gates, etc ever just saying,
    everything is comfy fast now, so nobody needs to buy any more
    computer stuff.

    judson

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    PLASMA STUDII
    http://plasmastudii.org
    223 E 10th Street
    PMB 130
    New York, NY 10003
  • portholeaccel | Wed Aug 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    i got you but if i have done it in other mediums and just not interested in that, that is cool to right ya anyway that romantic nastalgia is not interesting to me anymore you see i have had my art heart broken and the only thing left are these dreams that no one else can see but me i would rather take to it like octaves and i like the grian idea as persented before.though i do love deconstructivism and with out it we would not have ASLOP (architects) but still solari and buckmister fuller are big influences for that.
    furtherfield wrote:Hi Natalie

    'has that not already been done with post structural cinema' When you kiss a loved one and you wish to kiss them again because it felt real and it possessed substance - one should kiss again. For it will feel different, because time does not stand still, therefore the context changes. When you walk on a beach, treading your feet into the sand, I think it was Brecht who said 'you can never stand in the same place twice', (something like that) the sea washes your foot prints away. Technology offers many options of reevaluating what has been done already, in a new context just by creating artwork, anything in fact via the computer. So yes, do it again, why not? It might mean much more now... It is not hypocritical to question the politics of a medium, and you might of noticed that I do not use it myself. I might do though, depends how I feel really. Might wanna use it to see what it feels like, yep, I might just do that. It will question my own presumptions. marc

    has that not already been done with post structural cinema.(video) i mean turning it agianst itself at this point seems hypocritical kinda like radiohead. or the faint. why they rack in the money and the fame. i hate capitalism but look i am star because of all its toys and will make all its toys say bad things about itself ewwwww funny ha ha that to me seems hypocritical and rather absurd right now.i enjoyed the piece though i wish it would have been a little more plastic a little more korperwelten or the virtual human now that is interesting and the issues that are presented there are important to the human evilution.

    Don't pack your bags yet Jess,

    I sort of enjoyed its presentation but it did not make me feel that
    stimulated intellectually or emotionally or politically or conceptually -
    mainly because it seemed like a pop video, and how many of those have we
    seen? Loads of the buggers. I think, use the media but rip it apart at the
    same time, deconstruct it, break it, use it against itself.

    marc

    > sent to me as part of the flash debate. preload is a bit of a 'mare but
    the
    > work is just bloody brilliant. i'm packing my bags....
    > jess.
    >
    > > mx
    > >
    > > http://www.iamstatic.com/randy/love_me
    > >
    > > randy Knott
    > >
    > > http://iamstatic.com
    > >
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: "Jess Loseby"
    > > To: "t.whid" ;

    > > Sent: Sunday, August 18, 200! 2 3:02 PM
    > > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Flash Explores New Angles
    > >
    > >
    > > > Hi,
    > > > personally I think probably that part of the problem with the (under)
    > > > utilize of MX is sadly down to cost (ho hum). Flash in itself is just
    > > about
    > > > affordable to general artists but the three cameras, people to shoot
    the
    > > > film, editing equipment (virtual dub which I use is free and fab but
    just
    > > > not up to this) to create the kinds of bullet time/interactive video
    they
    > > > are talking about here is just too far out of your average net artists
    > > > reach - but just right for mr corporate design-a-web. Having said that
    > > > the time keeps getting shorter between what is affordable to the
    > > > industry and what is afforable for the individual is possible so I
    would
    > > > guess that mor! e is round the corner. I have just begun to play with
    > > > video in MX (though not the interactive capabilities as yet).but still
    in
    > > the
    > > > 'ooh this is cool!' stage playing (eg making my daughter swim across
    an
    > > > page like some weird cyber fish hee! hee!). At the risk of starting a
    why
    > > > are net artists never paid debate, the double edged sword of the
    > > > equality of the net artist (ie anyone can be one regardless of age
    > > > background location etc) is perhaps that 'everyone' tends to be on
    > > > 'normal' or less (for their age, background, location etc) income
    and
    > > > can't afford all the gear. In this respect the net artist will always
    be
    > > > playing catch-up with the corporate boys....
    > > > jess.
    > > > > Flash Explores New Angles
    > > > > Macromedia's Flash MX allows users to ! do a number of cool tricks,
    > > > > including switching instantaneously between video clips.
    > > > new work: 'light from the machine'
    > > > http://www.rssgallery.com/lightfromthemachine.html o
    > > > /^ rssgallery.com
    > > > ][
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > + sure it's barring in balls, n'est-ce pas ?
    > > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > > +
    > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > > Membership Agreement available online at
    http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > > >
    > >
    >
    > o
    > /^ rssgallery.com
    > ][
    >
    >
    >
    > + this isn't a fl! ame war, idiot
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >

    + this isn't a flame war, idiot
    -> post: list@rhizome.org
    -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    +
    Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    FRESH FISH

    CHINESE TAKE AWAY

    ---------------------------------
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    FRESH FISH

    CHINESE TAKE AWAY

    ---------------------------------
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  • Max Herman | Wed Aug 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    In a message dated 8/21/2002 1:01:15 AM Central Daylight Time,
    portholeaccel@yahoo.com writes:

    > like the grian idea as persented before

    So change the subject line to that and post it ne plus ultra.

    Que fait t'attends ici?

    ++
  • neil jenkins | Wed Aug 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    > how this could be pushed further and that this kind of smooth mixed-media delivery is
    > possible even with a flash which is not always as slick as it claims to be.

    keep pushing ! one of flash's pro points is that it can stream media, so like you jess, i had
    to sit tight on my 56kbps modem waiting for this to download before I could watch it .. t.whid
    mentioned the requiem for a dream site (which streams) which I'm sure must have influenced this
    piece (the distortion/pixelated bitmaps particularly)

    > To be honest, the content washed over me.

    .. me too, all i kept thinking about (apart from what are those maggot things ?) was that
    bloody dancing baby from ally mcbeal

    > too busy looking at the video/mx elements which it was given as an
    > example of.

    didn't see <that> much video ! and nothing else,actionscript or otherwise jumped out and got me
    excited... i agree with lewis, this could all have been achieved in an earlier version of
    flash to the same effect; take a look at 'journey on' by blast radius (or any of the other
    flash pieces on their site) - http://www.elixirstudio.com - ok it doesn't stream, and it's
    <very> graphic-y, but the videoesque (photo) animations are well nicely executed :)

    neil
  • portholeaccel | Wed Aug 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    why you wanna be all tryin to regulatin me and stuff yo, that ain't bein kool. Mherman and Gbush imperial art take over on 60 min. this Sunday
    "there is one way to do it and it is our way they" said Mherman and Gbush.
    ha ha ha ha ha
    chess anyone- no i have had enough tea thank you
    Nmherman@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 8/21/2002 1:01:15 AM Central Daylight Time, portholeaccel@yahoo.com writes:

    like the grian idea as presented before

    So change the subject line to that and post it ne plus ultra.

    Que fait t'attends ici?

    ++

    FRESH FISH

    CHINESE TAKE AWAY

    ---------------------------------
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  • Max Herman | Wed Aug 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    In a message dated 8/21/2002 4:53:28 AM Central Daylight Time,
    portholeaccel@yahoo.com writes:

    > "there is one way to do it and it is our way they" said Mherman and Gbush.
    > ha ha ha ha ha
    >
    >

    That could be true, that's why it's such a negative issue.

    However I officially say that comparing me to gb is just an insult, so thanks
    for that.

    Righty O then!

    ++
  • portholeaccel | Wed Aug 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    max, jim, john, fred,
    so how are you? you are doing well? air conditioning working? bills payed? you know, how is your dog? you no, that GO is much more challenging then chess. how do you feel about body simulation as flight simulation? like a fully functional virtural cadavor? i went and saw that korperwelten show awhile back are you for or agianst? i am doing well i have been trying to figure out something about myself, i can not understand why i forget who i am- i mean i have done alot and been alot of different things in my life and i have traveled to much i get confused where i am and what i have done it is really strange.... anyway so i have been remebering to forget and forgetting to remeber it is really interesting.
    Nmherman@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 8/21/2002 4:53:28 AM Central Daylight Time, portholeaccel@yahoo.com writes:

    "there is one way to do it and it is our way they" said Mherman and Gbush. ha ha ha ha ha

    That could be true, that's why it's such a negative issue.

    However I officially say that comparing me to gb is just an insult, so thanks for that.

    Righty O then!

    ++

    FRESH FISH

    CHINESE TAKE AWAY

    ---------------------------------
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  • Max Herman | Wed Aug 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    In a message dated 8/21/2002 6:14:59 AM Central Daylight Time,
    portholeaccel@yahoo.com writes:

    > max, jim, john, fred, so how are you?

    Natalie, you are back to discuss? OK. My notice today was called to an
    Enron exec who agreed to testify. Now I don't need to know his name, age,
    inner soul to know that--or to think, as Zaphod says to say, back to him
    later--about how we do have a corrupt economy, in which cheating and robbing
    are the norm, and in effect, we expect everyone to commit as many crimes as
    they can at work, and if they go down it's bad luck or the liberals or some
    other bad cause like forgetful accounting books.

    So I see the Enron man going to court, and my thinking is "we expect people
    to commit crimes at work, and not say a whistle unless you're indicted."

    So I see an image or something, and then think off on my own about whatever
    might be the reaction I had. Just a note on the bad state of affairs, and
    how you can alter image you see by how you react to it.

    you are doing well? air conditioning working? bills payed? you know, how is
    your
    > dog? you no, that GO is much more challenging then chess. how do you feel
    > about body simulation as flight simulation?

    That is one area, VR, that I only think of with salt, like the Star Tron
    holodeck. But yes, it's a good topic. There certainly could and should be a
    Max Herman Gameworld people can go to to practice or learn G2K. Or Nintendo,
    either/or.

    I'm skeptical of body virtualization however, in the main it's crude yes?
    Can you simulate a mind? Al Pacino's new movie to me is for the arrested
    ones, frozen beasts. Body simulation as flight simulation, that's a real
    idea in VR right? I'm not against it at all, just not my medium? Also
    however for g2k's sake I mention "what about mind simulation as flight
    simulation?" Just to be arch, no offense.

    like a fully functional virtural cadavor? i went and saw that korperwelten
    show awhile
    > back are you for or agianst?

    Wow, I don't know about that show. You mentioned plasticity a ways back, th
    at is an interesting idea, facture/touch or something else in German, I think
    often of the facture of my own media, what/how it is. Is it paint? Is it
    facture? Where's the plasticity.

    Frankenstein, the Golem, automata, robots, genetic biofreaks, that's as old
    as human fairy tales. A built cadaver, to me, is not conceptually new.
    Maybe Kac's rabbit is an example of bio-art that doesn't follow the
    animated-cadaver genre. Seems to me, from either view, I'm exactly an
    animated cadaver already. That's one argument, i.e. how does utopianism
    relate to artificial life and intelligence.

    I don't go to a lot of art shows or galleries. For intellectual activity I
    read, write emails, watch movies on the VCR, not a lot of museum tickets for
    me these days.

    i am doing well i have been trying to figure out something about myself, i
    can not
    > understand why i forget who i am- i mean i have done alot and been alot of
    > different things in my life and i have traveled to much i get confused
    > where i am and what i have done it is really strange....

    Maybe the existential dilemma of expression, I take it part and parcel with
    making art, Keats called it "negative capability" but you better leave a
    trail of crumbs. Remember Icarus, and "old father, old artificer, stand me
    now and ever in good stead." Perhaps you are just moving town to town? Many
    enjoy that way of livin', being on the road. Kerouac say, who I think was
    not a very great writer.

    anyway so i have been remebering to forget and forgetting to remeber it is
    really
    > interesting.

    That's a strange double-verb-phrase deal, does it relate to "A Remembrance of
    Things Past" by Proust? Memory and forgetting are a huge issue for genius,
    what to dwell on, what not to. Not just artists I don't think. You're
    saying you're forgetting who you are? Me too I think in some ways, but also
    remembering, perhaps in equal portion. A new variety of religious
    experience!!!!!!

    Nmherman@aol.com wrote:
    >
    > >> In a message dated 8/21/2002 4:53:28 AM Central Daylight Time,
    >> portholeaccel@yahoo.com writes:
    >>
    >>
    >> >>> "there is one way to do it and it is our way they" said Mherman and
    >>> Gbush

    I'm just sick over things. No one seems to advise protest at this point. So
    yes it's an insane historical situation, we're turning into the Empire is one
    way to say it. Spartacus is my favorite movie about Empire. Which means we
    of the realm have to take on imperial roles and mindset. Negri said so. Is
    he right? Hell if I know. Maybe he is, everything is Empire now, a fascism
    cartel with no enemies except bandits, terrorists, and the poor/starving.
    I'm not saying we're not in that; I'm just saying I can save the world even
    though we are in that.

    I used to have a democratic government in my nation-state where I make art,
    and now it is seeming to become a different kind of government, which changes
    me and my art and such just like the weather would change me.

    I maintain that we require a very large and intelligent protest sphere, that
    uses art and utopian (unproven) methods to bring about the cultural antidote
    to Empire--a new way of knowledge, yes my idiot boasting there.

    Max Herman

    ++

    . ha ha ha ha ha
    > >> >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >> That could be true, that's why it's such a negative issue.
    >>
    >> However I officially say that comparing me to gb is just an insult, so
    >> thanks for that.
    >>
    >> Righty O then!
    >>
    >> ++
    >
  • portholeaccel | Wed Aug 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    you see max really i am in agreement with you on alot of issues.So other then inventing schemes that work i can not argue with you though there are some variables to this.

    Maybe he is, everything is Empire now, a fascism cartel with no enemies except bandits, terrorists, and the poor/starving. I'm not saying we're not in that; I'm just saying I can save the world even though we are in that.
    "With the power of soul anything is possiable" Jimi Hendrix I believe that you can as well. It starts with the individual as noam chomskys states your individual decisions will make this place what it is. you have to be very aware of that in every aspect to change this place. i believe it is happening now. G-Bush will not be president forever, it is a temparay postion so there is hope.but man the next guy will have a lot of stuff to take care of after this. I pity him or her (got to have hope) The enron thing to me is horrid but it is kinda like the big thing a couple of years back where people were were getting fired from there jobs for stealing office supplies. everybody does it they have done it forever, but then it comes out in the open and the crowd goes wild. I believe this was incouraged by nader's P. run yes the cultural conscienceness is changing it's perspective just look at the stock market it is not getting better and war will not change that. Think of it like a silent protest actions speak louder then words. and anyway people do not verbally or physically protest the government untill somthing happens and there is no dinner on the table and the bills can not be payed. i listed a link to the vr piece i was taking about check it out.

    Nmherman@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 8/21/2002 6:14:59 AM Central Daylight Time, portholeaccel@yahoo.com writes:

    max, jim, john, fred, so how are you?

    Natalie, you are back to discuss? OK. My notice today was called to an Enron exec who agreed to testify. Now I don't need to know his name, age, inner soul to know that--or to think, as Zaphod says to say, back to him later--about how we do have a corrupt economy, in which cheating and robbing are the norm, and in effect, we expect everyone to commit as many crimes as they can at work, and if they go down it's bad luck or the liberals or some other bad cause like forgetful accounting books.

    So I see the Enron man going to court, and my thinking is "we expect people to commit crimes at work, and not say a whistle unless you're indicted."

    So I see an image or something, and then think off on my own about whatever might be the reaction I had. Just a note on the bad state of affairs, and how you can alter image you see by how you react to it.

    you are doing well? air conditioning working? bills payed? you know, how is your dog? you no, that GO is much more challenging then chess. how do you feel about body simulation as flight simulation?

    That is one area, VR, that I only think of with salt, like the Star Tron holodeck. But yes, it's a good topic. There certainly could and should be a Max Herman Gameworld people can go to to practice or learn G2K. Or Nintendo, either/or.
    I'm skeptical of body virtualization however, in the main it's crude yes? Can you simulate a mind? Al Pacino's new movie to me is for the arrested ones, frozen beasts. Body simulation as flight simulation, that's a real idea in VR right? I'm not against it at all, just not my medium? Also however for g2k's sake I mention "what about mind simulation as flight simulation?" Just to be arch, no offense.

    like a fully functional virtural cadavor? i went and saw that korperwelten show awhile back are you for or agianst?

    Wow, I don't know about that show. You mentioned plasticity a ways back, that is an interesting idea, facture/touch or something else in German, I think often of the facture of my own media, what/how it is. Is it paint? Is it facture? Where's the plasticity.

    Frankenstein, the Golem, automata, robots, genetic biofreaks, that's as old as human fairy tales. A built cadaver, to me, is not conceptually new. Maybe Kac's rabbit is an example of bio-art that doesn't follow the animated-cadaver genre. Seems to me, from either view, I'm exactly an animated cadaver already. That's one argument, i.e. how does utopianism relate to artificial life and intelligence.

    I don't go to a lot of art shows or galleries. For intellectual activity I read, write emails, watch movies on the VCR, not a lot of museum tickets for me these days.

    i am doing well i have been trying to figure out something about myself, i can not understand why i forget who i am- i mean i have done alot and been alot of different things in my life and i have traveled to much i get confused where i am and what i have done it is really strange....

    Maybe the existential dilemma of expression, I take it part and parcel with making art, Keats called it "negative capability" but you better leave a trail of crumbs. Remember Icarus, and "old father, old artificer, stand me now and ever in good stead." Perhaps you are just moving town to town? Many enjoy that way of livin', being on the road. Kerouac say, who I think was not a very great writer.anyway so i have been remebering to forget and forgetting to remeber it is really interesting.
    That's a strange double-verb-phrase deal, does it relate to "A Remembrance of Things Past" by Proust? Memory and forgetting are a huge issue for genius, what to dwell on, what not to. Not just artists I don't think. You're saying you're forgetting who you are? Me too I think in some ways, but also remembering, perhaps in equal portion. A new variety of religious experience!!!!!!

    Nmherman@aol.com wrote:

    In a message dated 8/21/2002 4:53:28 AM Central Daylight Time, portholeaccel@yahoo.com writes:

    "there is one way to do it and it is our way they" said Mherman and Gbush

    I'm just sick over things. No one seems to advise protest at this point. So yes it's an insane historical situation, we're turning into the Empire is one way to say it. Spartacus is my favorite movie about Empire. Which means we of the realm have to take on imperial roles and mindset. Negri said so. Is he right? Hell if I know. Maybe he is, everything is Empire now, a fascism cartel with no enemies except bandits, terrorists, and the poor/starving. I'm not saying we're not in that; I'm just saying I can save the world even though we are in that.

    I used to have a democratic government in my nation-state where I make art, and now it is seeming to become a different kind of government, which changes me and my art and such just like the weather would change me.

    I maintain that we require a very large and intelligent protest sphere, that uses art and utopian (unproven) methods to bring about the cultural antidote to Empire--a new way of knowledge, yes my idiot boasting there.

    Max Herman

    ++

    . ha ha ha ha ha

    That could be true, that's why it's such a negative issue.

    However I officially say that comparing me to gb is just an insult, so thanks for that.

    Righty O then!

    ++

    FRESH FISH

    CHINESE TAKE AWAY

    ---------------------------------
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