Re: New on post.thing.net

Posted by Annie Abrahams | Mon Nov 27th 2006 8:27 a.m.

I am against blogs

I am for lists

I won't participate, no blog for me.
unless a participative blog as the noblog of jim punk (cannot find a
link, has it disappeared?

I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
invest lists again

best Annie Abrahams

On 11/27/06, G.H. Hovagimyan <ghh@thing.net> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I've taken over the editorship of post.thing.net. http://post.thing.net I've been inviting people to come and blog. There are many new bloggers joining from around the country and around the world. Some recent bloggers include:
>
> James Allan - England - http://post.thing.net/blog/171
> Isabel Arvers - Switzerland - http://post.thing.net/blog/200
>
> Casper Straeke is reporting on the 4th international Media Art Biennale Seoul 2006. frontpage- http://post.thing.net
>
> Patrick Lichty has continued his thoughts on Craft and New Media first presented informally on rhizome. frontpage- http://post.thing.net
>
> The juxtapositon of these two essays is very exciting!
>
> I would like to extend a special invitation to women bloggers who would like to become part of this exciting discourse.
> Hey! don't let the boy's club just rule things!! Contact me and I'll set you up with a blog!!
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

--

"FearingS" Participate in creating a collective voice about "fear".
Help revealing it's actual tendencies. http://bram.org/peur/fear/
"Peurs" Participez a la creation d'une voix collective autour de la
"peur". Aidez a en reveler les tendances actuelles.
http://bram.org/peur/fear/indexfr.htm
  • G.H. Hovagimyan | Mon Nov 27th 2006 1:52 p.m.
    gh responds:
    Actually there are several forms of threaded discourse intrinsic to the cms we're using. You can start your own forum or comment on an article or post your own article. The only difference is that it's client pull. What are your objections to these type of structures? Do you prefer a closed discussion that only the initiated may read if they are subscribed to a listserv? In fact, the cms we use is more accessible to the networked world via google searches. The threaded discussions are actually a lot clearer and easier to follow that the traditional email listserv structure. I wonder what you objections might be then. Have you actually taken the time to use the new post.thing.net interface before dismissing it offhand?

    annie abrahams wrote:

    > I am against blogs
    >
    > I am for lists
    >
    > I won't participate, no blog for me.
    > unless a participative blog as the noblog of jim punk (cannot find a
    > link, has it disappeared?
    >
    > I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
    > invest lists again
    >
    >
    > best Annie Abrahams
    >
    > On 11/27/06, G.H. Hovagimyan <ghh@thing.net> wrote:
    > > Hi All,
    > >
    > > I've taken over the editorship of post.thing.net.
    > http://post.thing.net I've been inviting people to come and blog.
    > There are many new bloggers joining from around the country and around
    > the world. Some recent bloggers include:
    > >
    > > James Allan - England - http://post.thing.net/blog/171
    > > Isabel Arvers - Switzerland - http://post.thing.net/blog/200
    > >
    > > Casper Straeke is reporting on the 4th international Media Art
    > Biennale Seoul 2006. frontpage- http://post.thing.net
    > >
    > > Patrick Lichty has continued his thoughts on Craft and New Media
    > first presented informally on rhizome. frontpage-
    > http://post.thing.net
    > >
    > > The juxtapositon of these two essays is very exciting!
    > >
    > > I would like to extend a special invitation to women bloggers who
    > would like to become part of this exciting discourse.
    > > Hey! don't let the boy's club just rule things!! Contact me and I'll
    > set you up with a blog!!
    > > +
    > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > +
    > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > Membership Agreement available online at
    > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > >
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > "FearingS" Participate in creating a collective voice about "fear".
    > Help revealing it's actual tendencies. http://bram.org/peur/fear/
    > "Peurs" Participez � la cr�ation d'une voix collective autour de la
    > "peur". Aidez � en r�v�ler les tendances actuelles.
    > http://bram.org/peur/fear/indexfr.htm
    >
  • joy garnett | Mon Nov 27th 2006 2:18 p.m.
    a funny joke.

    annie abrahams wrote:
    >
    > > I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
    > > invest lists again
    >
    >

    --
    530 laguardia place #5, nyc 10012
    http://joygarnett.com
  • annie abrahams | Mon Nov 27th 2006 3:19 p.m.
    Yes I knew post.thing.net interface. Someone pointed it out to me a
    few weeks ago. I do have nothing against it "personally".

    I cite Eric Dymond "It truncates it. It also looses something, the
    stream of thought, the interaction is missing, something active and
    alive just isn't there.
    Lists belong to a continuum, blogs are private and chunky, and read by
    far fewer people."

    Yes, I do prefer what you call "closed discussion" read by the
    initiated subscribed to a listserv above no discussion at all that I
    find in most blogs. I do prefer to be confronted to all kinds of
    messages, ideas, different opinions of a list community above finding
    more of the same on the rss of a blog. (of course there are
    exceptions)
    a blog is monolithic a list is multiple
    a blog is materiel, a list is a fluid
    a blog is glue and crystals, a list soap and bubbles

    Blogs can serve specific working situations, as making collections
    together. But mostly they serve only to reinforce the identity of the
    blogger.
    It might also be that as T.Whid stated some time ago, that they serve
    as a secure haven where one can have opinions without having to
    discuss them.
    blogs are save, lists are dangerous (in potential)

    in potential
    That's why we should stay on the lists side and try to reinforce existing ones.

    best
    Annie

    On 11/27/06, G.H. Hovagimyan <ghh@thing.net> wrote:
    > gh responds:
    > Actually there are several forms of threaded discourse intrinsic to the cms we're using. You can start your own forum or comment on an article or post your own article. The only difference is that it's client pull. What are your objections to these type of structures? Do you prefer a closed discussion that only the initiated may read if they are subscribed to a listserv? In fact, the cms we use is more accessible to the networked world via google searches. The threaded discussions are actually a lot clearer and easier to follow that the traditional email listserv structure. I wonder what you objections might be then. Have you actually taken the time to use the new post.thing.net interface before dismissing it offhand?
    >
    > annie abrahams wrote:
    >
    > > I am against blogs
    > >
    > > I am for lists
    > >
    > > I won't participate, no blog for me.
    > > unless a participative blog as the noblog of jim punk (cannot find a
    > > link, has it disappeared?
    > >
    > > I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
    > > invest lists again
    > >
    > >
    > > best Annie Abrahams
    > >
    > > On 11/27/06, G.H. Hovagimyan <ghh@thing.net> wrote:
    > > > Hi All,
    > > >
    > > > I've taken over the editorship of post.thing.net.
    > > http://post.thing.net I've been inviting people to come and blog.
    > > There are many new bloggers joining from around the country and around
    > > the world. Some recent bloggers include:
    > > >
    > > > James Allan - England - http://post.thing.net/blog/171
    > > > Isabel Arvers - Switzerland - http://post.thing.net/blog/200
    > > >
    > > > Casper Straeke is reporting on the 4th international Media Art
    > > Biennale Seoul 2006. frontpage- http://post.thing.net
    > > >
    > > > Patrick Lichty has continued his thoughts on Craft and New Media
    > > first presented informally on rhizome. frontpage-
    > > http://post.thing.net
    > > >
    > > > The juxtapositon of these two essays is very exciting!
    > > >
    > > > I would like to extend a special invitation to women bloggers who
    > > would like to become part of this exciting discourse.
    > > > Hey! don't let the boy's club just rule things!! Contact me and I'll
    > > set you up with a blog!!
    > > > +
    > > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > > +
    > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > > Membership Agreement available online at
    > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > >
    > > "FearingS" Participate in creating a collective voice about "fear".
    > > Help revealing it's actual tendencies. http://bram.org/peur/fear/
    > > "Peurs" Participez � la cr�ation d'une voix collective autour de la
    > > "peur". Aidez � en r�v�ler les tendances actuelles.
    > > http://bram.org/peur/fear/indexfr.htm
    > >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >

    --

    "FearingS" Participate in creating a collective voice about "fear".
    Help revealing it's actual tendencies. http://bram.org/peur/fear/
    "Peurs" Participez a la creation d'une voix collective autour de la
    "peur". Aidez a en reveler les tendances actuelles.
    http://bram.org/peur/fear/indexfr.htm
  • Jason Van Anden | Mon Nov 27th 2006 4:10 p.m.
    aa(wo)men

    i++ == j != [mez]

    On Nov 27, 2006, at 5:20 PM, Annie Abrahams wrote:

    > Yes I knew post.thing.net interface. Someone pointed it out to me a
    > few weeks ago. I do have nothing against it "personally".
    >
    > I cite Eric Dymond "It truncates it. It also looses something, the
    > stream of thought, the interaction is missing, something active and
    > alive just isn't there.
    > Lists belong to a continuum, blogs are private and chunky, and read by
    > far fewer people."
    >
    > Yes, I do prefer what you call "closed discussion" read by the
    > initiated subscribed to a listserv above no discussion at all that I
    > find in most blogs. I do prefer to be confronted to all kinds of
    > messages, ideas, different opinions of a list community above finding
    > more of the same on the rss of a blog. (of course there are
    > exceptions)
    > a blog is monolithic a list is multiple
    > a blog is materiel, a list is a fluid
    > a blog is glue and crystals, a list soap and bubbles
    >
    > Blogs can serve specific working situations, as making collections
    > together. But mostly they serve only to reinforce the identity of the
    > blogger.
    > It might also be that as T.Whid stated some time ago, that they serve
    > as a secure haven where one can have opinions without having to
    > discuss them.
    > blogs are save, lists are dangerous (in potential)
    >
    > in potential
    > That's why we should stay on the lists side and try to reinforce
    > existing ones.
    >
    > best
    > Annie
    >
    >
    >
    > On 11/27/06, G.H. Hovagimyan <ghh@thing.net> wrote:
    >> gh responds:
    >> Actually there are several forms of threaded discourse intrinsic
    >> to the cms we're using. You can start your own forum or comment on
    >> an article or post your own article. The only difference is that
    >> it's client pull. What are your objections to these type of
    >> structures? Do you prefer a closed discussion that only the
    >> initiated may read if they are subscribed to a listserv? In
    >> fact, the cms we use is more accessible to the networked world via
    >> google searches. The threaded discussions are actually a lot
    >> clearer and easier to follow that the traditional email listserv
    >> structure. I wonder what you objections might be then. Have you
    >> actually taken the time to use the new post.thing.net interface
    >> before dismissing it offhand?
    >>
    >> annie abrahams wrote:
    >>
    >> > I am against blogs
    >> >
    >> > I am for lists
    >> >
    >> > I won't participate, no blog for me.
    >> > unless a participative blog as the noblog of jim punk (cannot
    >> find a
    >> > link, has it disappeared?
    >> >
    >> > I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
    >> > invest lists again
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > best Annie Abrahams
    >> >
    >> > On 11/27/06, G.H. Hovagimyan <ghh@thing.net> wrote:
    >> > > Hi All,
    >> > >
    >> > > I've taken over the editorship of post.thing.net.
    >> > http://post.thing.net I've been inviting people to come and blog.
    >> > There are many new bloggers joining from around the country and
    >> around
    >> > the world. Some recent bloggers include:
    >> > >
    >> > > James Allan - England - http://post.thing.net/blog/171
    >> > > Isabel Arvers - Switzerland - http://post.thing.net/blog/200
    >> > >
    >> > > Casper Straeke is reporting on the 4th international Media Art
    >> > Biennale Seoul 2006. frontpage- http://post.thing.net
    >> > >
    >> > > Patrick Lichty has continued his thoughts on Craft and New Media
    >> > first presented informally on rhizome. frontpage-
    >> > http://post.thing.net
    >> > >
    >> > > The juxtapositon of these two essays is very exciting!
    >> > >
    >> > > I would like to extend a special invitation to women bloggers who
    >> > would like to become part of this exciting discourse.
    >> > > Hey! don't let the boy's club just rule things!! Contact me
    >> and I'll
    >> > set you up with a blog!!
    >> > > +
    >> > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >> > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >> > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    >> > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >> > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >> > > +
    >> > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >> > > Membership Agreement available online at
    >> > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >> > >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > --
    >> >
    >> > "FearingS" Participate in creating a collective voice about "fear".
    >> > Help revealing it's actual tendencies. http://bram.org/peur/fear/
    >> > "Peurs" Participez � la cr�ation d'une voix collective autour
    >> de la
    >> > "peur". Aidez � en r�v�ler les tendances actuelles.
    >> > http://bram.org/peur/fear/indexfr.htm
    >> >
    >> +
    >> -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
    >> subscribe.rhiz
    >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >> +
    >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/
    >> 29.php
    >>
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > "FearingS" Participate in creating a collective voice about "fear".
    > Help revealing it's actual tendencies. http://bram.org/peur/fear/
    > "Peurs" Participez a la creation d'une voix collective autour de la
    > "peur". Aidez a en reveler les tendances actuelles.
    > http://bram.org/peur/fear/indexfr.htm
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
    > subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/
    > 29.php
  • marc garrett | Mon Nov 27th 2006 4:20 p.m.
    Hi Annie & Eric,

    >in potential
    >That's why we should stay on the lists side and try to reinforce
    existing ones.

    I am definately one for lists, as many of you who have shared
    discussions with me through the years are aware of, but I also like
    blogs - they offer different resonances & functions.

    So, I am split here. Perhaps there is no absolute, only opinion...

    marc

    > Yes I knew post.thing.net interface. Someone pointed it out to me a
    > few weeks ago. I do have nothing against it "personally".
    >
    > I cite Eric Dymond "It truncates it. It also looses something, the
    > stream of thought, the interaction is missing, something active and
    > alive just isn't there.
    > Lists belong to a continuum, blogs are private and chunky, and read by
    > far fewer people."
    >
    > Yes, I do prefer what you call "closed discussion" read by the
    > initiated subscribed to a listserv above no discussion at all that I
    > find in most blogs. I do prefer to be confronted to all kinds of
    > messages, ideas, different opinions of a list community above finding
    > more of the same on the rss of a blog. (of course there are
    > exceptions)
    > a blog is monolithic a list is multiple
    > a blog is materiel, a list is a fluid
    > a blog is glue and crystals, a list soap and bubbles
    >
    > Blogs can serve specific working situations, as making collections
    > together. But mostly they serve only to reinforce the identity of the
    > blogger.
    > It might also be that as T.Whid stated some time ago, that they serve
    > as a secure haven where one can have opinions without having to
    > discuss them.
    > blogs are save, lists are dangerous (in potential)
    >
    > in potential
    > That's why we should stay on the lists side and try to reinforce
    > existing ones.
    >
    > best
    > Annie
    >
    >
    >
    > On 11/27/06, G.H. Hovagimyan <ghh@thing.net> wrote:
    >
    >> gh responds:
    >> Actually there are several forms of threaded discourse intrinsic to
    >> the cms we're using. You can start your own forum or comment on an
    >> article or post your own article. The only difference is that it's
    >> client pull. What are your objections to these type of structures?
    >> Do you prefer a closed discussion that only the initiated may read if
    >> they are subscribed to a listserv? In fact, the cms we use is more
    >> accessible to the networked world via google searches. The threaded
    >> discussions are actually a lot clearer and easier to follow that the
    >> traditional email listserv structure. I wonder what you objections
    >> might be then. Have you actually taken the time to use the new
    >> post.thing.net interface before dismissing it offhand?
    >>
    >> annie abrahams wrote:
    >>
    >> > I am against blogs
    >> >
    >> > I am for lists
    >> >
    >> > I won't participate, no blog for me.
    >> > unless a participative blog as the noblog of jim punk (cannot find a
    >> > link, has it disappeared?
    >> >
    >> > I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
    >> > invest lists again
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > best Annie Abrahams
    >> >
    >> > On 11/27/06, G.H. Hovagimyan <ghh@thing.net> wrote:
    >> > > Hi All,
    >> > >
    >> > > I've taken over the editorship of post.thing.net.
    >> > http://post.thing.net I've been inviting people to come and blog.
    >> > There are many new bloggers joining from around the country and around
    >> > the world. Some recent bloggers include:
    >> > >
    >> > > James Allan - England - http://post.thing.net/blog/171
    >> > > Isabel Arvers - Switzerland - http://post.thing.net/blog/200
    >> > >
    >> > > Casper Straeke is reporting on the 4th international Media Art
    >> > Biennale Seoul 2006. frontpage- http://post.thing.net
    >> > >
    >> > > Patrick Lichty has continued his thoughts on Craft and New Media
    >> > first presented informally on rhizome. frontpage-
    >> > http://post.thing.net
    >> > >
    >> > > The juxtapositon of these two essays is very exciting!
    >> > >
    >> > > I would like to extend a special invitation to women bloggers who
    >> > would like to become part of this exciting discourse.
    >> > > Hey! don't let the boy's club just rule things!! Contact me and I'll
    >> > set you up with a blog!!
    >> > > +
    >> > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >> > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >> > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    >> > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >> > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >> > > +
    >> > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >> > > Membership Agreement available online at
    >> > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >> > >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > --
    >> >
    >> > "FearingS" Participate in creating a collective voice about "fear".
    >> > Help revealing it's actual tendencies. http://bram.org/peur/fear/
    >> > "Peurs" Participez � la cr�ation d'une voix collective autour de la
    >> > "peur". Aidez � en r�v�ler les tendances actuelles.
    >> > http://bram.org/peur/fear/indexfr.htm
    >> >
    >> +
    >> -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >> +
    >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>
    >
    >

    --
    Furtherfield - http://www.furtherfield.org
    HTTP - http://www.http.uk.net
    Node.London - http://www.nodel.org
  • joseph mcelroy | Mon Nov 27th 2006 6:42 p.m.
    perhaps it is the logical clearness and ease of use that is problem - I
    myself love the lack of linear sequence I get from lists. Having lived
    in a world of developing logical, user-friendly interfaces, I am tired
    of them. I long for an operating system made like a stack of old papers
    and books, where I know where everything is because I put it there and
    no one else can find anything without working a bit.
    best
    joseph

    G.H. Hovagimyan wrote:
    > gh responds:
    > Actually there are several forms of threaded discourse intrinsic to the cms we're using. You can start your own forum or comment on an article or post your own article. The only difference is that it's client pull. What are your objections to these type of structures? Do you prefer a closed discussion that only the initiated may read if they are subscribed to a listserv? In fact, the cms we use is more accessible to the networked world via google searches. The threaded discussions are actually a lot clearer and easier to follow that the traditional email listserv structure. I wonder what you objections might be then. Have you actually taken the time to use the new post.thing.net interface before dismissing it offhand?
    >
    > annie abrahams wrote:
    >
    >
    >> I am against blogs
    >>
    >> I am for lists
    >>
    >> I won't participate, no blog for me.
    >> unless a participative blog as the noblog of jim punk (cannot find a
    >> link, has it disappeared?
    >>
    >> I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
    >> invest lists again
    >>
    >>
    >> best Annie Abrahams
    >>
    >> On 11/27/06, G.H. Hovagimyan <ghh@thing.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Hi All,
    >>>
    >>> I've taken over the editorship of post.thing.net.
    >>>
    >> http://post.thing.net I've been inviting people to come and blog.
    >> There are many new bloggers joining from around the country and around
    >> the world. Some recent bloggers include:
    >>
    >>> James Allan - England - http://post.thing.net/blog/171
    >>> Isabel Arvers - Switzerland - http://post.thing.net/blog/200
    >>>
    >>> Casper Straeke is reporting on the 4th international Media Art
    >>>
    >> Biennale Seoul 2006. frontpage- http://post.thing.net
    >>
    >>> Patrick Lichty has continued his thoughts on Craft and New Media
    >>>
    >> first presented informally on rhizome. frontpage-
    >> http://post.thing.net
    >>
    >>> The juxtapositon of these two essays is very exciting!
    >>>
    >>> I would like to extend a special invitation to women bloggers who
    >>>
    >> would like to become part of this exciting discourse.
    >>
    >>> Hey! don't let the boy's club just rule things!! Contact me and I'll
    >>>
    >> set you up with a blog!!
    >>
    >>> +
    >>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    >>>
    >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >>
    >>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >>> +
    >>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >>> Membership Agreement available online at
    >>>
    >> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>
    >> --
    >>
    >> "FearingS" Participate in creating a collective voice about "fear".
    >> Help revealing it's actual tendencies. http://bram.org/peur/fear/
    >> "Peurs" Participez � la cr�ation d'une voix collective autour de la
    >> "peur". Aidez � en r�v�ler les tendances actuelles.
    >> http://bram.org/peur/fear/indexfr.htm
    >>
    >>
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >
    >

    --
    Joseph Franklyn McElroy
    Corporate Performance Artists
    www.corporatepa.com

    This email message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged communications, work product, or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended
    recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.
  • patrick lichty | Mon Nov 27th 2006 8:37 p.m.
    I am also generally against blogs myself. However, at least for a while, I feel I need to address them.

    More soon.

    I genrally agree with most of Annie's assertions, but I feel that I need to confront the idea of the blog myself.

    As a quick commentary, I feel like the blog and the Thing Forums compartmentalize conversation into neat threads that exclude the amorphousness of open list discussion, which I generally prefer.

    However, I have some very specific reasons for going on Thing and Furtherfield for a while. More on this in a bit.

    Patrick Lichty
    - Interactive Arts & Media
    Columbia College, Chicago
    - Editor-In-Chief
    Intelligent Agent Magazine
    http://www.intelligentagent.com
    225 288 5813
    voyd@voyd.com

    "It is better to die on your feet
    than to live on your knees."

    Yes I knew post.thing.net interface. Someone pointed it out to me a
    few weeks ago. I do have nothing against it "personally".

    I cite Eric Dymond "It truncates it. It also looses something, the
    stream of thought, the interaction is missing, something active and
    alive just isn't there.
    Lists belong to a continuum, blogs are private and chunky, and read by
    far fewer people."

    Yes, I do prefer what you call "closed discussion" read by the
    initiated subscribed to a listserv above no discussion at all that I
    find in most blogs. I do prefer to be confronted to all kinds of
    messages, ideas, different opinions of a list community above finding
    more of the same on the rss of a blog. (of course there are
    exceptions)
    a blog is monolithic a list is multiple
    a blog is materiel, a list is a fluid
    a blog is glue and crystals, a list soap and bubbles

    Blogs can serve specific working situations, as making collections
    together. But mostly they serve only to reinforce the identity of the
    blogger.
    It might also be that as T.Whid stated some time ago, that they serve
    as a secure haven where one can have opinions without having to
    discuss them.
    blogs are save, lists are dangerous (in potential)

    in potential
    That's why we should stay on the lists side and try to reinforce existing ones.

    best
    Annie

    On 11/27/06, G.H. Hovagimyan <ghh@thing.net> wrote:
    > gh responds:
    > Actually there are several forms of threaded discourse intrinsic to the cms we're using. You can start your own forum or comment on an article or post your own article. The only difference is that it's client pull. What are your objections to these type of structures? Do you prefer a closed discussion that only the initiated may read if they are subscribed to a listserv? In fact, the cms we use is more accessible to the networked world via google searches. The threaded discussions are actually a lot clearer and easier to follow that the traditional email listserv structure. I wonder what you objections might be then. Have you actually taken the time to use the new post.thing.net interface before dismissing it offhand?
    >
    > annie abrahams wrote:
    >
    > > I am against blogs
    > >
    > > I am for lists
    > >
    > > I won't participate, no blog for me.
    > > unless a participative blog as the noblog of jim punk (cannot find a
    > > link, has it disappeared?
    > >
    > > I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
    > > invest lists again
    > >
    > >
    > > best Annie Abrahams
    > >
    > > On 11/27/06, G.H. Hovagimyan <ghh@thing.net> wrote:
    > > > Hi All,
    > > >
    > > > I've taken over the editorship of post.thing.net.
    > > http://post.thing.net I've been inviting people to come and blog.
    > > There are many new bloggers joining from around the country and around
    > > the world. Some recent bloggers include:
    > > >
    > > > James Allan - England - http://post.thing.net/blog/171
    > > > Isabel Arvers - Switzerland - http://post.thing.net/blog/200
    > > >
    > > > Casper Straeke is reporting on the 4th international Media Art
    > > Biennale Seoul 2006. frontpage- http://post.thing.net
    > > >
    > > > Patrick Lichty has continued his thoughts on Craft and New Media
    > > first presented informally on rhizome. frontpage-
    > > http://post.thing.net
    > > >
    > > > The juxtapositon of these two essays is very exciting!
    > > >
    > > > I would like to extend a special invitation to women bloggers who
    > > would like to become part of this exciting discourse.
    > > > Hey! don't let the boy's club just rule things!! Contact me and I'll
    > > set you up with a blog!!
    > > > +
    > > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > > +
    > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > > Membership Agreement available online at
    > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > >
    > > "FearingS" Participate in creating a collective voice about "fear".
    > > Help revealing it's actual tendencies. http://bram.org/peur/fear/
    > > "Peurs" Participez � la cr�ation d'une voix collective autour de la
    > > "peur". Aidez � en r�v�ler les tendances actuelles.
    > > http://bram.org/peur/fear/indexfr.htm
    > >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >

    --

    "FearingS" Participate in creating a collective voice about "fear".
    Help revealing it's actual tendencies. http://bram.org/peur/fear/
    "Peurs" Participez a la creation d'une voix collective autour de la
    "peur". Aidez a en reveler les tendances actuelles.
    http://bram.org/peur/fear/indexfr.htm

    +
    -> post: list@rhizome.org
    -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    +
    Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
  • marc garrett | Tue Nov 28th 2006 4:38 a.m.
    Hi patrick & all,

    Just want mention here that when Patrick say's that he's writing on
    Furherfield that he is not referring to the main site - what he is
    discussing here is the new blog that we have had up now for about 5
    weeks (may be more) - http://blog.furtherfield.org

    The blog is for those who wish to explore their own personal experience
    and practice on media art and connected creative explorations. It is
    consciously with an emphasis on 'practice' in respect of those who show
    media art, net art, curate it, write about it and want to put their
    current ideas somewhere and share them with others who are interested as
    well.

    We have not publicized the blog that much, because to be honest it is
    not about trawling the Internet and reblogging, it is a small community
    who wish to focus more their experiences and reflect upon their
    subjective studies, and networked behaviours without the pressure of
    having to be self-consciously academic or presenting what they are up to
    in an aggressive manner - it is space for reflection, thinking, playing
    with ideas, putting down your own histories on your own terms, and of
    course working things out...

    Of course the main Furtherfield site is much different :-)

    ---I think lists are great and will use them as long as they carry on
    being there, but I am not a singular soul and I also like exploring
    other ways of being on-line, and if others wish to do that as well with
    us on the blog, I see no problem with that at all :-)

    The Furtherfield blog, is not about promotion, it is about reflection
    and exploring without that sort of pressure, but at the same time being
    open to discuss if the occassion arises. It is different to most blogs
    for it does not demand an audience - it will survive and be what it
    wants to be whether an audience is part of it or not.

    I also feel that because Furtherfield has spent so much time doing stuff
    for so many 'excellent' dudes out there - that we should allow ourselves
    this sort of space to recuperate, in a context that is the opposite of
    pushing out all of the time...

    Of course, if this blog says something to you as a thinker or creative
    individual who likes to explore various ideas regarding one's own
    practice and experience, you are very welcome to contact us and ask to
    be part of the blog

    wishing everyone well marc

    >I am also generally against blogs myself. However, at least for a while, I feel I need to address them.
    >
    >More soon.
    >
    >I genrally agree with most of Annie's assertions, but I feel that I need to confront the idea of the blog myself.
    >
    >As a quick commentary, I feel like the blog and the Thing Forums compartmentalize conversation into neat threads that exclude the amorphousness of open list discussion, which I generally prefer.
    >
    >However, I have some very specific reasons for going on Thing and Furtherfield for a while. More on this in a bit.
    >
    >Patrick Lichty
    >- Interactive Arts & Media
    > Columbia College, Chicago
    >- Editor-In-Chief
    > Intelligent Agent Magazine
    >http://www.intelligentagent.com
    >225 288 5813
    >voyd@voyd.com
    >
    >"It is better to die on your feet
    >than to live on your knees."
    >
    >
    >
    >Yes I knew post.thing.net interface. Someone pointed it out to me a
    >few weeks ago. I do have nothing against it "personally".
    >
    >I cite Eric Dymond "It truncates it. It also looses something, the
    >stream of thought, the interaction is missing, something active and
    >alive just isn't there.
    >Lists belong to a continuum, blogs are private and chunky, and read by
    >far fewer people."
    >
    >Yes, I do prefer what you call "closed discussion" read by the
    >initiated subscribed to a listserv above no discussion at all that I
    >find in most blogs. I do prefer to be confronted to all kinds of
    >messages, ideas, different opinions of a list community above finding
    >more of the same on the rss of a blog. (of course there are
    >exceptions)
    >a blog is monolithic a list is multiple
    >a blog is materiel, a list is a fluid
    >a blog is glue and crystals, a list soap and bubbles
    >
    >Blogs can serve specific working situations, as making collections
    >together. But mostly they serve only to reinforce the identity of the
    >blogger.
    >It might also be that as T.Whid stated some time ago, that they serve
    >as a secure haven where one can have opinions without having to
    >discuss them.
    >blogs are save, lists are dangerous (in potential)
    >
    >in potential
    >That's why we should stay on the lists side and try to reinforce existing ones.
    >
    >best
    >Annie
    >
    >
    >
    >On 11/27/06, G.H. Hovagimyan <ghh@thing.net> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>gh responds:
    >>Actually there are several forms of threaded discourse intrinsic to the cms we're using. You can start your own forum or comment on an article or post your own article. The only difference is that it's client pull. What are your objections to these type of structures? Do you prefer a closed discussion that only the initiated may read if they are subscribed to a listserv? In fact, the cms we use is more accessible to the networked world via google searches. The threaded discussions are actually a lot clearer and easier to follow that the traditional email listserv structure. I wonder what you objections might be then. Have you actually taken the time to use the new post.thing.net interface before dismissing it offhand?
    >>
    >>annie abrahams wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>I am against blogs
    >>>
    >>>I am for lists
    >>>
    >>>I won't participate, no blog for me.
    >>>unless a participative blog as the noblog of jim punk (cannot find a
    >>>link, has it disappeared?
    >>>
    >>>I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
    >>>invest lists again
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>best Annie Abrahams
    >>>
    >>>On 11/27/06, G.H. Hovagimyan <ghh@thing.net> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Hi All,
    >>>>
    >>>>I've taken over the editorship of post.thing.net.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>http://post.thing.net I've been inviting people to come and blog.
    >>>There are many new bloggers joining from around the country and around
    >>>the world. Some recent bloggers include:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>James Allan - England - http://post.thing.net/blog/171
    >>>>Isabel Arvers - Switzerland - http://post.thing.net/blog/200
    >>>>
    >>>>Casper Straeke is reporting on the 4th international Media Art
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>Biennale Seoul 2006. frontpage- http://post.thing.net
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Patrick Lichty has continued his thoughts on Craft and New Media
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>first presented informally on rhizome. frontpage-
    >>>http://post.thing.net
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>The juxtapositon of these two essays is very exciting!
    >>>>
    >>>>I would like to extend a special invitation to women bloggers who
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>would like to become part of this exciting discourse.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Hey! don't let the boy's club just rule things!! Contact me and I'll
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>set you up with a blog!!
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>+
    >>>>-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >>>>-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >>>>-> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >>>>+
    >>>>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >>>>Membership Agreement available online at
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>--
    >>>
    >>>"FearingS" Participate in creating a collective voice about "fear".
    >>>Help revealing it's actual tendencies. http://bram.org/peur/fear/
    >>>"Peurs" Participez � la cr�ation d'une voix collective autour de la
    >>>"peur". Aidez � en r�v�ler les tendances actuelles.
    >>>http://bram.org/peur/fear/indexfr.htm
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>+
    >>-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >>-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >>+
    >>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    >

    --
    Furtherfield - http://www.furtherfield.org
    HTTP - http://www.http.uk.net
    Node.London - http://www.nodel.org
  • M. River | Wed Nov 29th 2006 7:13 a.m.
    annie abrahams wrote:

    > I am against blogs
    >
    > I am for lists
    >
    > I won't participate, no blog for me.
    > unless a participative blog as the noblog of jim punk (cannot find a
    > link, has it disappeared?
    >
    > I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
    > invest lists again

    "Misunderstanding is fundamental of human beings. We cannot read anothers brain. We are like submarines progressing by the information of our own internal monitors but unable to see what is really going on. In every tentative to understand another human being, we have to let in unknown information, that has the potential to destabilize us. That's dangerous, and so most human beings prefer a misunderstanding attitude over an understanding one." Annie Abrahams 1997 2005

    I like blogs
    I like lists
    I like email
    I like vlogs
    I like phologs
    I kind of like myspace...kind of...
    I like code
    I like web 2.0
    I like flickr...kind of
    I like del.icio.us
    I like the net
    I like rhizome
    I like the thing
    I like art

    and so on...
  • Jason Van Anden | Wed Nov 29th 2006 8:30 a.m.
    I like the fact that Annie Abrahams was taking a stand - making a deliberate
    choice to invest the time she has for written communication in an informal
    collective list (like here) rather than be turned into an(other) amateur
    columnist in the blogsphere. Her reasoning made me even more happy. HG's
    intentions are pure to be sure - but blogs cause a brain drain on
    communities such as Rhizome. I read blogs too - but I prefer the Rhizome
    list. I rarely wander over to the mtaa site - but I read posts here many
    times a day.

    M. River, I wish you felt the same way so I would see more of you.

    Best,
    Jason Van Anden
    www.smileproject.com

    On 11/29/06, M. River <mriver102@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    > annie abrahams wrote:
    >
    > > I am against blogs
    > >
    > > I am for lists
    > >
    > > I won't participate, no blog for me.
    > > unless a participative blog as the noblog of jim punk (cannot find a
    > > link, has it disappeared?
    > >
    > > I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
    > > invest lists again
    >
    > "Misunderstanding is fundamental of human beings. We cannot read anothers
    > brain. We are like submarines progressing by the information of our own
    > internal monitors but unable to see what is really going on. In every
    > tentative to understand another human being, we have to let in unknown
    > information, that has the potential to destabilize us. That's dangerous, and
    > so most human beings prefer a misunderstanding attitude over an
    > understanding one." Annie Abrahams 1997 2005
    >
    > I like blogs
    > I like lists
    > I like email
    > I like vlogs
    > I like phologs
    > I kind of like myspace...kind of...
    > I like code
    > I like web 2.0
    > I like flickr...kind of
    > I like del.icio.us
    > I like the net
    > I like rhizome
    > I like the thing
    > I like art
    >
    > and so on...
    >
    >
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >

    --
    Jason Van Anden
    http://www.smileproject.com
  • Jim Andrews | Wed Nov 29th 2006 8:31 a.m.
    i don't have a blog. actually i do. i signed up for one. but i don't operate in such a way that i was moved to do anything with it. it's just not me, apparently.

    here's a blog i visit fairly often: http://dbqp.blogspot.com . this is geof huth's blog on visual poetry.

    the form of the blog is not going to be right for all, but apparently it is very right for what geof is doing at the moment. i first encountered geof's work in the late 80's; i've been following his work for a long time. i don't know of a more serious one concerning visual poetry. there are other blogs concerning visual poetry where interesting visual poets post good work. but the blog is sort of incidental to most of these blogs. it's just somewhere to post the work. whereas huth is doing something else.

    what are the urls of blogs you visit fairly often?

    ja
    http://vispo.com
  • marc garrett | Wed Nov 29th 2006 9:08 a.m.
    Hi Jason,

    I certainly do not want Annie to feel that I personally dislike her
    opinion, I respect it just as I know that she would respect my own
    opinion (gulp), even if she does not agree with my own - After all, we
    are not robots, yet.

    And what makes life interesting, is discovering other people's
    perspectives and their positions, in respect of what they are inclined
    to value. For we are a multi-cultural world, even if mono-cultural
    stances are ruling our poitical frameworks and world politics at present.

    marc

    > I like the fact that Annie Abrahams was taking a stand - making a
    > deliberate choice to invest the time she has for written communication
    > in an informal collective list (like here) rather than be turned into
    > an(other) amateur columnist in the blogsphere. Her reasoning made me
    > even more happy. HG's intentions are pure to be sure - but blogs
    > cause a brain drain on communities such as Rhizome. I read blogs too -
    > but I prefer the Rhizome list. I rarely wander over to the mtaa site
    > - but I read posts here many times a day.
    >
    > M. River, I wish you felt the same way so I would see more of you.
    >
    > Best,
    > Jason Van Anden
    > www.smileproject.com <http://www.smileproject.com>
    >
    >
    > On 11/29/06, *M. River* <mriver102@yahoo.com
    > <mailto:mriver102@yahoo.com>> wrote:
    >
    > annie abrahams wrote:
    >
    > > I am against blogs
    > >
    > > I am for lists
    > >
    > > I won't participate, no blog for me.
    > > unless a participative blog as the noblog of jim punk (cannot find a
    > > link, has it disappeared?
    > >
    > > I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
    > > invest lists again
    >
    > "Misunderstanding is fundamental of human beings. We cannot read
    > anothers brain. We are like submarines progressing by the
    > information of our own internal monitors but unable to see what is
    > really going on. In every tentative to understand another human
    > being, we have to let in unknown information, that has the
    > potential to destabilize us. That's dangerous, and so most human
    > beings prefer a misunderstanding attitude over an understanding
    > one." Annie Abrahams 1997 2005
    >
    > I like blogs
    > I like lists
    > I like email
    > I like vlogs
    > I like phologs
    > I kind of like myspace...kind of...
    > I like code
    > I like web 2.0
    > I like flickr...kind of
    > I like del.icio.us <http://del.icio.us>
    > I like the net
    > I like rhizome
    > I like the thing
    > I like art
    >
    > and so on...
    >
    >
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org <mailto:list@rhizome.org>
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org <mailto:info@rhizome.org>
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support <http://rhizome.org/support>
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at
    > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Jason Van Anden
    > http://www.smileproject.com

    --
    Furtherfield - http://www.furtherfield.org
    HTTP - http://www.http.uk.net
    Node.London - http://www.nodel.org
  • Eric Dymond | Wed Nov 29th 2006 10:07 a.m.
    M. River wrote:

    > annie abrahams wrote:
    >
    > > I am against blogs
    > >
    > > I am for lists
    > >
    > > I won't participate, no blog for me.
    > > unless a participative blog as the noblog of jim punk (cannot find a
    > > link, has it disappeared?
    > >
    > > I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
    > > invest lists again
    >
    > "Misunderstanding is fundamental of human beings. We cannot read
    > anothers brain. We are like submarines progressing by the information
    > of our own internal monitors but unable to see what is really going
    > on. In every tentative to understand another human being, we have to
    > let in unknown information, that has the potential to destabilize us.
    > That's dangerous, and so most human beings prefer a misunderstanding
    > attitude over an understanding one." Annie Abrahams 1997 2005
    >
    > I like blogs
    > I like lists
    > I like email
    > I like vlogs
    > I like phologs
    > I kind of like myspace...kind of...
    > I like code
    > I like web 2.0
    > I like flickr...kind of
    > I like del.icio.us
    > I like the net
    > I like rhizome
    > I like the thing
    > I like art
    >
    > and so on...

    and....
    your an information slut.
    But what do you *really really* like.
  • don relyea | Wed Nov 29th 2006 10:10 a.m.
    First off post.thing.net looks cool and I have book marked it for further r=
    eading.

    annie abrahams wrote:
    > I am against blogs
    > I am for lists

    I am for both. In the context of encouraging discussion, Annie is right tho=
    ugh, lists still win over blogs hands down. To me blogs and lists serve two=
    different purposes. In my mind, blogs are for publishing thoughts and vari=
    ous stuff like music, new projects and so on. My blog is sort of my persona=
    l podium. Comments make blogs a little more interactive but its a pain to k=
    eep up with the spammers. Lists seem more ripe for discussion. I think it =
    is that way entirely because you have to make a conscious decision to go to=
    a blog to experience it, with email lists the discussion lands in your ema=
    il box.

    Just a thought... it would probably not be too tough to make RAW discussio=
    ns both. A moderator/super user could flag certain threads as "discussion" =
    and a script could plop them into a blog format. Comments could then be sen=
    t back to RAW. Then we would get the www search and syndicated benefits of=
    blogs with the email delivery of lists. I guess it is already sort of this=
    way with the searchable text objects and RAW post form. Hmmm.

    Jim Andrews wrote:
    > what are the urls of blogs you visit fairly often?

    Chris Ashley's Blog
    http://chrisashley.net/weblog/

    Tom Moody's Blog
    http://www.digitalmediatree.com/tommoody/

    Thinking About Art
    http://thinkingaboutart.blogs.com/art/

    Turbulence.org Blog
    http://turbulence.org/blog/

    Wooster Collective (street art)
    http://www.woostercollective.com/

    Generator Blog (fun generators)
    http://generatorblog.blogspot.com/

    Patently Silly (bizarre patents, very funny)
    http://www.patentlysilly.com/

    and of course my personal blog about art, my projects, my music and my kids=
    .....
    http://www.donrelyea.com/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi

    Regards,
    Don Relyea=
  • annie abrahams | Wed Nov 29th 2006 10:14 a.m.
    Marc, of course I do respect your opinion

    No one can suspect you of abandoning whatever
    You are present on rhizome
    Almost every day I find very interesting links and texts you send to
    the NetBehaviour list (I appreciate that very much)
    and now I learn you are blogging too

    best
    Annie

    On 11/29/06, marc <marc.garrett@furtherfield.org> wrote:
    > Hi Jason,
    >
    > I certainly do not want Annie to feel that I personally dislike her
    > opinion, I respect it just as I know that she would respect my own
    > opinion (gulp), even if she does not agree with my own - After all, we
    > are not robots, yet.
    >
    > And what makes life interesting, is discovering other people's
    > perspectives and their positions, in respect of what they are inclined
    > to value. For we are a multi-cultural world, even if mono-cultural
    > stances are ruling our poitical frameworks and world politics at present.
    >
    > marc
    >
    > > I like the fact that Annie Abrahams was taking a stand - making a
    > > deliberate choice to invest the time she has for written communication
    > > in an informal collective list (like here) rather than be turned into
    > > an(other) amateur columnist in the blogsphere. Her reasoning made me
    > > even more happy. HG's intentions are pure to be sure - but blogs
    > > cause a brain drain on communities such as Rhizome. I read blogs too -
    > > but I prefer the Rhizome list. I rarely wander over to the mtaa site
    > > - but I read posts here many times a day.
    > >
    > > M. River, I wish you felt the same way so I would see more of you.
    > >
    > > Best,
    > > Jason Van Anden
    > > www.smileproject.com <http://www.smileproject.com>
    > >
    > >
    > > On 11/29/06, *M. River* <mriver102@yahoo.com
    > > <mailto:mriver102@yahoo.com>> wrote:
    > >
    > > annie abrahams wrote:
    > >
    > > > I am against blogs
    > > >
    > > > I am for lists
    > > >
    > > > I won't participate, no blog for me.
    > > > unless a participative blog as the noblog of jim punk (cannot find a
    > > > link, has it disappeared?
    > > >
    > > > I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
    > > > invest lists again
    > >
    > > "Misunderstanding is fundamental of human beings. We cannot read
    > > anothers brain. We are like submarines progressing by the
    > > information of our own internal monitors but unable to see what is
    > > really going on. In every tentative to understand another human
    > > being, we have to let in unknown information, that has the
    > > potential to destabilize us. That's dangerous, and so most human
    > > beings prefer a misunderstanding attitude over an understanding
    > > one." Annie Abrahams 1997 2005
    > >
    > > I like blogs
    > > I like lists
    > > I like email
    > > I like vlogs
    > > I like phologs
    > > I kind of like myspace...kind of...
    > > I like code
    > > I like web 2.0
    > > I like flickr...kind of
    > > I like del.icio.us <http://del.icio.us>
    > > I like the net
    > > I like rhizome
    > > I like the thing
    > > I like art
    > >
    > > and so on...
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > +
    > > -> post: list@rhizome.org <mailto:list@rhizome.org>
    > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org <mailto:info@rhizome.org>
    > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support <http://rhizome.org/support>
    > > +
    > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > Membership Agreement available online at
    > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > Jason Van Anden
    > > http://www.smileproject.com
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Furtherfield - http://www.furtherfield.org
    > HTTP - http://www.http.uk.net
    > Node.London - http://www.nodel.org
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >

    --

    "FearingS" Participate in creating a collective voice about "fear".
    Help revealing it's actual tendencies. http://bram.org/peur/fear/
    "Peurs" Participez a la creation d'une voix collective autour de la
    "peur". Aidez a en reveler les tendances actuelles.
    http://bram.org/peur/fear/indexfr.htm
  • annie abrahams | Wed Nov 29th 2006 10:16 a.m.
    thanks Jason

    this is also how I feel

    > On 11/29/06, Jason Van Anden <jason@smileproject.com> wrote:
    > > I like the fact that Annie Abrahams was taking a stand - making a deliberate
    > > choice to invest the time she has for written communication in an informal
    > > collective list (like here) rather than be turned into an(other) amateur
    > > columnist in the blogsphere. Her reasoning made me even more happy. HG's
    > > intentions are pure to be sure - but blogs cause a brain drain on
    > > communities such as Rhizome. I read blogs too - but I prefer the Rhizome
    > > list. I rarely wander over to the mtaa site - but I read posts here many
    > > times a day.
    > >
    > > M. River, I wish you felt the same way so I would see more of you.
    > >
    > > Best,
    > > Jason Van Anden
    > > www.smileproject.com
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > On 11/29/06, M. River <mriver102@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > > > annie abrahams wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > I am against blogs
    > > > >
    > > > > I am for lists
    > > > >
    > > > > I won't participate, no blog for me.
    > > > > unless a participative blog as the noblog of jim punk (cannot find a
    > > > > link, has it disappeared?
    > > > >
    > > > > I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
    > > > > invest lists again
    > > >
    > > > "Misunderstanding is fundamental of human beings. We cannot read anothers
    > > brain. We are like submarines progressing by the information of our own
    > > internal monitors but unable to see what is really going on. In every
    > > tentative to understand another human being, we have to let in unknown
    > > information, that has the potential to destabilize us. That's dangerous, and
    > > so most human beings prefer a misunderstanding attitude over an
    > > understanding one." Annie Abrahams 1997 2005
    > > >
    > > > I like blogs
    > > > I like lists
    > > > I like email
    > > > I like vlogs
    > > > I like phologs
    > > > I kind of like myspace...kind of...
    > > > I like code
    > > > I like web 2.0
    > > > I like flickr...kind of
    > > > I like del.icio.us
    > > > I like the net
    > > > I like rhizome
    > > > I like the thing
    > > > I like art
    > > >
    > > > and so on...
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > +
    > > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > > +
    > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > Jason Van Anden
    > > http://www.smileproject.com
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > "FearingS" Participate in creating a collective voice about "fear".
    > Help revealing it's actual tendencies. http://bram.org/peur/fear/
    > "Peurs" Participez a la creation d'une voix collective autour de la
    > "peur". Aidez a en reveler les tendances actuelles.
    > http://bram.org/peur/fear/indexfr.htm
    >

    --

    "FearingS" Participate in creating a collective voice about "fear".
    Help revealing it's actual tendencies. http://bram.org/peur/fear/
    "Peurs" Participez a la creation d'une voix collective autour de la
    "peur". Aidez a en reveler les tendances actuelles.
    http://bram.org/peur/fear/indexfr.htm
  • annie abrahams | Wed Nov 29th 2006 10:19 a.m.
    I like Mark River

    On 11/29/06, M. River <mriver102@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > annie abrahams wrote:
    >
    > > I am against blogs
    > >
    > > I am for lists
    > >
    > > I won't participate, no blog for me.
    > > unless a participative blog as the noblog of jim punk (cannot find a
    > > link, has it disappeared?
    > >
    > > I hope other women also will leave the blogs to men and will try to
    > > invest lists again
    >
    > "Misunderstanding is fundamental of human beings. We cannot read anothers brain. We are like submarines progressing by the information of our own internal monitors but unable to see what is really going on. In every tentative to understand another human being, we have to let in unknown information, that has the potential to destabilize us. That's dangerous, and so most human beings prefer a misunderstanding attitude over an understanding one." Annie Abrahams 1997 2005
    >
    > I like blogs
    > I like lists
    > I like email
    > I like vlogs
    > I like phologs
    > I kind of like myspace...kind of...
    > I like code
    > I like web 2.0
    > I like flickr...kind of
    > I like del.icio.us
    > I like the net
    > I like rhizome
    > I like the thing
    > I like art
    >
    > and so on...
    >
    >
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >

    --

    "FearingS" Participate in creating a collective voice about "fear".
    Help revealing it's actual tendencies. http://bram.org/peur/fear/
    "Peurs" Participez a la creation d'une voix collective autour de la
    "peur". Aidez a en reveler les tendances actuelles.
    http://bram.org/peur/fear/indexfr.htm
  • Alexis Turner | Wed Nov 29th 2006 11:30 a.m.
    Poor Annie - I am sorry, but I cannot join your all grrrllllist revolution.
    After many years of unadulterated hate, I finally figured out what blogs are
    good for (namely, that precisely -because- of the distance they impose, they
    allow for a much better stab at rational, thoughtful pause...reflection, if you
    will...for both the writer and the reader [This is not to say that all, most,
    or even many blogs take advantage of this fact, but it is there nonetheless]):

    http://tastyresearch.wordpress.com/
    http://infosthetics.com/
    http://digitalhistoryhacks.blogspot.com/
    http://history-and-education.blogspot.com/
    http://rahrahfeminista.com/blog/

    -Alexis

    On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Jim Andrews wrote:

    ::Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:32:27 -0800
    ::From: Jim Andrews <jim@vispo.com>
    ::To: list@rhizome.org
    ::Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Re: New on post.thing.net
    ::
    ::i don't have a blog. actually i do. i signed up for one. but i don't operate in such a way that i was moved to do anything with it. it's just not me, apparently.
    ::
    ::here's a blog i visit fairly often: http://dbqp.blogspot.com . this is geof huth's blog on visual poetry.
    ::
    ::the form of the blog is not going to be right for all, but apparently it is very right for what geof is doing at the moment. i first encountered geof's work in the late 80's; i've been following his work for a long time. i don't know of a more serious one concerning visual poetry. there are other blogs concerning visual poetry where interesting visual poets post good work. but the blog is sort of incidental to most of these blogs. it's just somewhere to post the work. whereas huth is doing something else.
    ::
    ::what are the urls of blogs you visit fairly often?
    ::
    ::ja
    ::http://vispo.com
    ::
    ::
  • Jason Van Anden | Wed Nov 29th 2006 11:44 a.m.
    list is to social capital as blog is to social capitalist

    i++

    On 11/29/06, Don Relyea <don@donrelyea.com > wrote:
    >
    > First off post.thing.net looks cool and I have book marked it for further
    > reading.
    >
    > annie abrahams wrote:
    > > I am against blogs
    > > I am for lists
    > I am for both. In the context of encouraging discussion, Annie is right
    > though, lists still win over blogs hands down. To me blogs and lists serve
    > two different purposes. In my mind, blogs are for publishing thoughts and
    > various stuff like music, new projects and so on. My blog is sort of my
    > personal podium. Comments make blogs a little more interactive but its a
    > pain to keep up with the spammers. Lists seem more ripe for discussion. I
    > think it is that way entirely because you have to make a conscious decision
    > to go to a blog to experience it, with email lists the discussion lands in
    > your email box.
    >
    > Just a thought... it would probably not be too tough to make RAW
    > discussions both. A moderator/super user could flag certain threads as
    > "discussion" and a script could plop them into a blog format. Comments could
    > then be sent back to RAW. Then we would get the www search and syndicated
    > benefits of blogs with the email delivery of lists. I guess it is already
    > sort of this way with the searchable text objects and RAW post form. Hmmm.
    >
    > Jim Andrews wrote:
    > > what are the urls of blogs you visit fairly often?
    >
    > Chris Ashley's Blog
    > http://chrisashley.net/weblog/
    >
    > Tom Moody's Blog
    > http://www.digitalmediatree.com/tommoody/
    >
    > Thinking About Art
    > http://thinkingaboutart.blogs.com/art/
    >
    > Turbulence.org Blog
    > http://turbulence.org/blog/
    >
    > Wooster Collective (street art)
    > http://www.woostercollective.com/
    >
    > Generator Blog (fun generators)
    > http://generatorblog.blogspot.com/
    >
    > Patently Silly (bizarre patents, very funny)
    > http://www.patentlysilly.com/
    >
    > and of course my personal blog about art, my projects, my music and my
    > kids.....
    > http://www.donrelyea.com/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi
    >
    > Regards,
    > Don Relyea
    >

    --
    Jason Van Anden
    http://www.smileproject.com
  • Jason Van Anden | Wed Nov 29th 2006 11:59 a.m.
    ... in the context of Rhizome at any rate.

    i++

    On 11/29/06, Jason Van Anden <jason@smileproject.com> wrote:
    >
    > list is to social capital as blog is to social capitalist
    >
    > i++
    >
    >
    >
    > On 11/29/06, Don Relyea < don@donrelyea.com > wrote:
    > >
    > > First off post.thing.net looks cool and I have book marked it for
    > > further reading.
    > >
    > > annie abrahams wrote:
    > > > I am against blogs
    > > > I am for lists
    > > I am for both. In the context of encouraging discussion, Annie is right
    > > though, lists still win over blogs hands down. To me blogs and lists serve
    > > two different purposes. In my mind, blogs are for publishing thoughts and
    > > various stuff like music, new projects and so on. My blog is sort of my
    > > personal podium. Comments make blogs a little more interactive but its a
    > > pain to keep up with the spammers. Lists seem more ripe for discussion. I
    > > think it is that way entirely because you have to make a conscious decision
    > > to go to a blog to experience it, with email lists the discussion lands in
    > > your email box.
    > >
    > > Just a thought... it would probably not be too tough to make RAW
    > > discussions both. A moderator/super user could flag certain threads as
    > > "discussion" and a script could plop them into a blog format. Comments could
    > > then be sent back to RAW. Then we would get the www search and syndicated
    > > benefits of blogs with the email delivery of lists. I guess it is already
    > > sort of this way with the searchable text objects and RAW post form. Hmmm.
    > >
    > > Jim Andrews wrote:
    > > > what are the urls of blogs you visit fairly often?
    > >
    > > Chris Ashley's Blog
    > > http://chrisashley.net/weblog/
    > >
    > > Tom Moody's Blog
    > > http://www.digitalmediatree.com/tommoody/
    > >
    > > Thinking About Art
    > > http://thinkingaboutart.blogs.com/art/
    > >
    > > Turbulence.org Blog
    > > http://turbulence.org/blog/
    > >
    > > Wooster Collective (street art)
    > > http://www.woostercollective.com/
    > >
    > > Generator Blog (fun generators)
    > > http://generatorblog.blogspot.com/
    > >
    > > Patently Silly (bizarre patents, very funny)
    > > http://www.patentlysilly.com/
    > >
    > > and of course my personal blog about art, my projects, my music and my
    > > kids.....
    > > http://www.donrelyea.com/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > > Don Relyea
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Jason Van Anden
    > http://www.smileproject.com
    >

    --
    Jason Van Anden
    http://www.smileproject.com
  • Jim Andrews | Wed Nov 29th 2006 6:57 p.m.
    thanks for the links to interesting blogs.

    one thing the blog doesn't usually do is explore the whole screen. the jim
    punk/abe linkoln blog is exceptional in that regard.

    i'm not sure what the limitations are of the blog concerning the form of the
    html.

    i prefer to create the html myself and have the whole screen for
    composition.

    also, i'm curious about the nature of the dependence on the blog company.
    when people started making sites back in 1994-2000, many used free resources
    like geocities. but that turned out to be less than optimal because the
    companies instituted pop-up ads in the sites. or ads on the pages
    themselves. that sort of thing.

    when i started my site, initially the url was islandnet.com/~jandrews. then
    it was speakeasy.org/~jandrews. i eventually got my own domain name,
    vispo.com, because it's more memorable and it lets me change hosting
    services while retaining all the links in to the site. i understand that's
    possible with blogs, too.

    here are some other interesting blogs:

    MARKO NIEMI
    http://nurotus.blogspot.com
    Finnish poet-programmer and translator

    MAURA MCDONNELL
    http://visualmusic.blogspot.com
    Irish musician/scholar

    JIM LEFTWICH
    http://jimleftwichtextimagepoem.blogspot.com
    Long-practiced visual poet

    ja
    http://vispo.com

    .
  • Steve OR Steven Read | Thu Nov 30th 2006 3:41 p.m.
    ilikeblogsandblogslikeme.
    raccoonsdontlikeblogs.
    wormsmighteatblogs.
    listsareforjunkies.
    informationisforsuckers.
    poorpeoplereadblogsbecause.
    digestionofblogsisnotugly.
    imtiredofblogsnow.
    bloglinersdoitfaster.
    thisisworthlessinformation.
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