Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm - NYTIMES

Posted by Lee Wells | Sun Apr 2nd 2006 9:30 a.m.

Nice quote Lauren.
Cheers.

March 29, 2006
Conservation
Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
By TERRY SCHWADRON

Correction Appended

FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been forced to worry
about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into pieces. Despite
the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and conservators
have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.

Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the digital era, with
artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience, but also the
traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does a museum
safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and that may be
based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in less than two
years?

"It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided to keep
something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at the Berkeley
Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of California. "That's
what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is different
because it essentially can disappear."

"I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five years,
whichever comes first," he added.

The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of variable
media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and digital art,
represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic creation of
our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and preservation, many of
these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There is growing
concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum personnel,
libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms, performance
art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that can be
difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to another
institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art may be
limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.

"Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a senior
conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum in New
York. "There have always been periods in history in which there was
experimentation in art, and there have always been new materials. But the
questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the media. We
must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the work, which
allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term preservation."

Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer code was not
part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions about
maintaining a collection.

For example:

A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public Opinion)," was
shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies against a wall
where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider preserving
the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's estate (he died
in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was important; the
pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the candies must
be the same.

"For the moment, those same candies are still available, but they may not
always be available," although efforts have been made to specify acceptable
parameters, she said.

A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called "net.flag"
invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to change a set of
stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the Internet
has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the interactivity,
which is difficult to preserve.

Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on machinery
using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma screens and with
other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art reflects the
discussion about intention versus physical replication involving hardware,
which could change the work.

Art institutions have begun to look at these issues systematically. The
Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the Berkeley Art
Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for digital
artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis
and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The National
Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to create models for
preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois Foundation for
Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium on variable
media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older software.
And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in London and
the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.

"It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome, which
documents digital work by participating artists and works with the Museum of
Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any standards for how
to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve work that is
online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."

In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include storing the
original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing extensive
documentation.

Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about digital
art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may be at the
forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly developing is
this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be able to see what
was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then will come a
period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. But this is not
limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things will be for
our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to everyone in every
walk of life. Government documents, for example."

Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates the logical
from the physical."

"We have worried about preserving the physical," he said. "Perhaps we should
be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has written
academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin to a music
score
  • Lee Wells | Sun Apr 2nd 2006 10:12 a.m.
    Can someone explain to me what mailia is?

    On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list@rhizome.org> wrote:

    >
    > mailia
    >
    > Lee Wells <lee@leewells.org> wrote:
    >> Nice quote Lauren.
    >> Cheers.
    >>
    >> March 29, 2006
    >> Conservation
    >> Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
    >> By TERRY SCHWADRON
    >>
    >> Correction Appended
    >>
    >> FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been forced to worry
    >> about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into pieces. Despite
    >> the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and conservators
    >> have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
    >>
    >> Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the digital era, with
    >> artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience, but also the
    >> traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does a museum
    >> safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and that may be
    >> based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in less than two
    >> years?
    >>
    >> "It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided to keep
    >> something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at the Berkeley
    >> Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of California. "That's
    >> what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is different
    >> because it essentially can disappear."
    >>
    >> "I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five years,
    >> whichever comes first," he added.
    >>
    >> The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of variable
    >> media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and digital art,
    >> represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic creation of
    >> our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and preservation, many of
    >> these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There is growing
    >> concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum personnel,
    >> libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms, performance
    >> art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that can be
    >> difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to another
    >> institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art may be
    >> limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
    >>
    >> "Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a senior
    >> conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum in New
    >> York. "There have always been periods in history in which there was
    >> experimentation in art, and there have always been new materials. But the
    >> questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the media. We
    >> must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the work, which
    >> allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term preservation."
    >>
    >> Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer code was not
    >> part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions about
    >> maintaining a collection.
    >>
    >> For example:
    >>
    >> A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public Opinion)," was
    >> shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies against a wall
    >> where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider preserving
    >> the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's estate (he died
    >> in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was important; the
    >> pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the candies must
    >> be the same.
    >>
    >> "For the moment, those same candies are still available, but they may not
    >> always be available," although efforts have been made to specify acceptable
    >> parameters, she said.
    >>
    >> A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called "net.flag"
    >> invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to change a set of
    >> stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the Internet
    >> has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the interactivity,
    >> which is difficult to preserve.
    >>
    >> Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on machinery
    >> using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma screens and with
    >> other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art reflects the
    >> discussion about intention versus physical replication involving hardware,
    >> which could change the work.
    >>
    >> Art institutions have begun to look at these issues systematically. The
    >> Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the Berkeley Art
    >> Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for digital
    >> artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis
    >> and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The National
    >> Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to create models for
    >> preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois Foundation for
    >> Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium on variable
    >> media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older software.
    >> And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in London and
    >> the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
    >>
    >> "It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
    >> materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome, which
    >> documents digital work by participating artists and works with the Museum of
    >> Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any standards for how
    >> to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve work that is
    >> online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
    >>
    >> In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include storing the
    >> original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing extensive
    >> documentation.
    >>
    >> Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about digital
    >> art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may be at the
    >> forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly developing is
    >> this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be able to see what
    >> was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then will come a
    >> period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. But this is not
    >> limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things will be for
    >> our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to everyone in every
    >> walk of life. Government documents, for example."
    >>
    >> Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates the logical
    >> from the physical."
    >>
    >> "We have worried about preserving the physical," he said. "Perhaps we should
    >> be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has written
    >> academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin to a music
    >> score
  • marc garrett | Sun Apr 2nd 2006 10:25 a.m.
    I would'nt mind knowing also...

    marc

    >Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
    >
    >On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list@rhizome.org> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >>mailia
    >>
    >>Lee Wells <lee@leewells.org> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Nice quote Lauren.
    >>>Cheers.
    >>>
    >>>March 29, 2006
    >>>Conservation
    >>>Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
    >>>By TERRY SCHWADRON
    >>>
    >>>Correction Appended
    >>>
    >>>FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been forced to worry
    >>>about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into pieces. Despite
    >>>the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and conservators
    >>>have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
    >>>
    >>>Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the digital era, with
    >>>artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience, but also the
    >>>traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does a museum
    >>>safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and that may be
    >>>based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in less than two
    >>>years?
    >>>
    >>>"It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided to keep
    >>>something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at the Berkeley
    >>>Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of California. "That's
    >>>what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is different
    >>>because it essentially can disappear."
    >>>
    >>>"I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five years,
    >>>whichever comes first," he added.
    >>>
    >>>The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of variable
    >>>media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and digital art,
    >>>represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic creation of
    >>>our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and preservation, many of
    >>>these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There is growing
    >>>concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum personnel,
    >>>libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms, performance
    >>>art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that can be
    >>>difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to another
    >>>institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art may be
    >>>limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
    >>>
    >>>"Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a senior
    >>>conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum in New
    >>>York. "There have always been periods in history in which there was
    >>>experimentation in art, and there have always been new materials. But the
    >>>questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the media. We
    >>>must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the work, which
    >>>allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term preservation."
    >>>
    >>>Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer code was not
    >>>part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions about
    >>>maintaining a collection.
    >>>
    >>>For example:
    >>>
    >>>A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public Opinion)," was
    >>>shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies against a wall
    >>>where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider preserving
    >>>the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's estate (he died
    >>>in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was important; the
    >>>pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the candies must
    >>>be the same.
    >>>
    >>>"For the moment, those same candies are still available, but they may not
    >>>always be available," although efforts have been made to specify acceptable
    >>>parameters, she said.
    >>>
    >>>A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called "net.flag"
    >>>invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to change a set of
    >>>stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the Internet
    >>>has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the interactivity,
    >>>which is difficult to preserve.
    >>>
    >>>Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on machinery
    >>>using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma screens and with
    >>>other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art reflects the
    >>>discussion about intention versus physical replication involving hardware,
    >>>which could change the work.
    >>>
    >>>Art institutions have begun to look at these issues systematically. The
    >>>Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the Berkeley Art
    >>>Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for digital
    >>>artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis
    >>>and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The National
    >>>Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to create models for
    >>>preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois Foundation for
    >>>Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium on variable
    >>>media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older software.
    >>>And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in London and
    >>>the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
    >>>
    >>>"It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
    >>>materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome, which
    >>>documents digital work by participating artists and works with the Museum of
    >>>Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any standards for how
    >>>to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve work that is
    >>>online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
    >>>
    >>>In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include storing the
    >>>original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing extensive
    >>>documentation.
    >>>
    >>>Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about digital
    >>>art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may be at the
    >>>forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly developing is
    >>>this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be able to see what
    >>>was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then will come a
    >>>period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. But this is not
    >>>limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things will be for
    >>>our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to everyone in every
    >>>walk of life. Government documents, for example."
    >>>
    >>>Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates the logical
    >>>from the physical."
    >>>
    >>>"We have worried about preserving the physical," he said. "Perhaps we should
    >>>be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has written
    >>>academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin to a music
    >>>score
  • Lee Wells | Sun Apr 2nd 2006 10:50 a.m.
    I'm glad I'm not alone.

    On 4/2/06 12:26 PM, "marc" <marc.garrett@furtherfield.org> wrote:

    > I would'nt mind knowing also...
    >
    > marc
    >
    >> Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
    >>
    >> On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list@rhizome.org> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> mailia
    >>>
    >>> Lee Wells <lee@leewells.org> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Nice quote Lauren.
    >>>> Cheers.
    >>>>
    >>>> March 29, 2006
    >>>> Conservation
    >>>> Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
    >>>> By TERRY SCHWADRON
    >>>>
    >>>> Correction Appended
    >>>>
    >>>> FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been forced to worry
    >>>> about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into pieces. Despite
    >>>> the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and conservators
    >>>> have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
    >>>>
    >>>> Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the digital era,
    >>>> with
    >>>> artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience, but also the
    >>>> traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does a museum
    >>>> safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and that may be
    >>>> based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in less than
    >>>> two
    >>>> years?
    >>>>
    >>>> "It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided to keep
    >>>> something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at the
    >>>> Berkeley
    >>>> Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of California.
    >>>> "That's
    >>>> what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is different
    >>>> because it essentially can disappear."
    >>>>
    >>>> "I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five years,
    >>>> whichever comes first," he added.
    >>>>
    >>>> The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of variable
    >>>> media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and digital art,
    >>>> represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic creation of
    >>>> our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and preservation, many of
    >>>> these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There is growing
    >>>> concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum personnel,
    >>>> libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms,
    >>>> performance
    >>>> art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that can be
    >>>> difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to another
    >>>> institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art may be
    >>>> limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
    >>>>
    >>>> "Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a senior
    >>>> conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum in New
    >>>> York. "There have always been periods in history in which there was
    >>>> experimentation in art, and there have always been new materials. But the
    >>>> questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the media. We
    >>>> must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the work, which
    >>>> allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term preservation."
    >>>>
    >>>> Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer code was not
    >>>> part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions about
    >>>> maintaining a collection.
    >>>>
    >>>> For example:
    >>>>
    >>>> A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public Opinion)," was
    >>>> shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies against a wall
    >>>> where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider preserving
    >>>> the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's estate (he died
    >>>> in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was important; the
    >>>> pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the candies
    >>>> must
    >>>> be the same.
    >>>>
    >>>> "For the moment, those same candies are still available, but they may not
    >>>> always be available," although efforts have been made to specify acceptable
    >>>> parameters, she said.
    >>>>
    >>>> A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called "net.flag"
    >>>> invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to change a set of
    >>>> stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the Internet
    >>>> has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the interactivity,
    >>>> which is difficult to preserve.
    >>>>
    >>>> Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on machinery
    >>>> using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma screens and with
    >>>> other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art reflects the
    >>>> discussion about intention versus physical replication involving hardware,
    >>>> which could change the work.
    >>>>
    >>>> Art institutions have begun to look at these issues systematically. The
    >>>> Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the Berkeley
    >>>> Art
    >>>> Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for digital
    >>>> artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis
    >>>> and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The National
    >>>> Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to create models for
    >>>> preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois Foundation for
    >>>> Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium on
    >>>> variable
    >>>> media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older software.
    >>>> And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in London and
    >>>> the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
    >>>>
    >>>> "It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
    >>>> materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome, which
    >>>> documents digital work by participating artists and works with the Museum
    >>>> of
    >>>> Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any standards for how
    >>>> to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve work that is
    >>>> online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
    >>>>
    >>>> In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include storing the
    >>>> original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing extensive
    >>>> documentation.
    >>>>
    >>>> Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about digital
    >>>> art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may be at the
    >>>> forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly developing is
    >>>> this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be able to see
    >>>> what
    >>>> was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then will come a
    >>>> period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. But this is
    >>>> not
    >>>> limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things will be for
    >>>> our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to everyone in
    >>>> every
    >>>> walk of life. Government documents, for example."
    >>>>
    >>>> Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates the logical
    >>>> from the physical."
    >>>>
    >>>> "We have worried about preserving the physical," he said. "Perhaps we
    >>>> should
    >>>> be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has written
    >>>> academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin to a music
    >>>> score DH with work recognizable even if some of the period instruments in
    >>>> use
    >>>> at the time of creation are changed.
    >>>>
    >>>> The larger issues of digital preservation have drawn attention at
    >>>> conferences, in academic reviews and in expensive proposals. The popularity
    >>>> of electronic media and the Internet have made it easy to publish DH but to
    >>>> keep, catalog and find materials later is more complicated. Preservation
    >>>> can
    >>>> become a juggling act among competing archiving media. Photographs, for
    >>>> example, have been moved from digital files to CD-ROM's to optical drives
    >>>> or
    >>>> tapes or other media that also have maintenance issues.
    >>>>
    >>>> A program led by the Library of Congress for digital preservation was
    >>>> granted nearly $100 million in 2000 to commission efforts among public and
    >>>> private libraries and institutions that need to maintain collections.
    >>>>
    >>>> "Creating art through time-based media means also talking about the 3-D
    >>>> effect of the art, or about how the information is received by the viewer,"
    >>>> said James Coddington, the chief conservator for MoMA. "The question
    >>>> becomes, What is the information that we need to transmit? If future
    >>>> generations are to understand the art of our time, they need to have real
    >>>> examples presented in authentic manner to understand what we and our
    >>>> artists
    >>>> were talking about. And that is very difficult."
    >>>>
    >>>> Correction: March 31, 2006
    >>>>
    >>>> An article in the special Museums section yesterday about methods for
    >>>> preserving digital art misidentified the museum with which Rhizome, an
    >>>> online arts organization, is affiliated; it is the New Museum of
    >>>> Contemporary Art in New York, not the Museum of Contemporary Art in Los
    >>>> Angeles.
    >>>> --
    >>>> Lee Wells
    >>>> Brooklyn, NY 11222
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.leewells.org
    >>>> http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
    >>>> 917 723 2524
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> +
    >>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >>>> +
    >>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >>>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    --
    Lee Wells
    Brooklyn, NY 11222

    http://www.leewells.org
    http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
    917 723 2524
  • Lauren Cornell | Mon Apr 3rd 2006 9:11 a.m.
    No, you're not. I started receiving these messages last week, and thought
    I was the only one. With the server issues we encountered, looking into got
    laid to the wayside. We will do so asap, and let you know.. -- L

    On 4/2/06 11:49 AM, "Lee Wells" <lee@leewells.org> wrote:

    > I'm glad I'm not alone.
    >
    > On 4/2/06 12:26 PM, "marc" <marc.garrett@furtherfield.org> wrote:
    >
    >> I would'nt mind knowing also...
    >>
    >> marc
    >>
    >>> Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
    >>>
    >>> On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list@rhizome.org> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> mailia
    >>>>
    >>>> Lee Wells <lee@leewells.org> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Nice quote Lauren.
    >>>>> Cheers.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> March 29, 2006
    >>>>> Conservation
    >>>>> Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
    >>>>> By TERRY SCHWADRON
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Correction Appended
    >>>>>
    >>>>> FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been forced to worry
    >>>>> about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into pieces.
    >>>>> Despite
    >>>>> the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and conservators
    >>>>> have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the digital era,
    >>>>> with
    >>>>> artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience, but also
    >>>>> the
    >>>>> traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does a museum
    >>>>> safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and that may be
    >>>>> based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in less than
    >>>>> two
    >>>>> years?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided to keep
    >>>>> something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at the
    >>>>> Berkeley
    >>>>> Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of California.
    >>>>> "That's
    >>>>> what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is different
    >>>>> because it essentially can disappear."
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five years,
    >>>>> whichever comes first," he added.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of variable
    >>>>> media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and digital art,
    >>>>> represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic creation of
    >>>>> our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and preservation, many of
    >>>>> these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There is
    >>>>> growing
    >>>>> concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum personnel,
    >>>>> libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms,
    >>>>> performance
    >>>>> art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that can be
    >>>>> difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to another
    >>>>> institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art may be
    >>>>> limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a senior
    >>>>> conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum in
    >>>>> New
    >>>>> York. "There have always been periods in history in which there was
    >>>>> experimentation in art, and there have always been new materials. But the
    >>>>> questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the media. We
    >>>>> must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the work, which
    >>>>> allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term preservation."
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer code was not
    >>>>> part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions about
    >>>>> maintaining a collection.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> For example:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public Opinion)," was
    >>>>> shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies against a
    >>>>> wall
    >>>>> where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider preserving
    >>>>> the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's estate (he died
    >>>>> in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was important; the
    >>>>> pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the candies
    >>>>> must
    >>>>> be the same.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "For the moment, those same candies are still available, but they may not
    >>>>> always be available," although efforts have been made to specify
    >>>>> acceptable
    >>>>> parameters, she said.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called "net.flag"
    >>>>> invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to change a set
    >>>>> of
    >>>>> stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the Internet
    >>>>> has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the
    >>>>> interactivity,
    >>>>> which is difficult to preserve.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on machinery
    >>>>> using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma screens and with
    >>>>> other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art reflects the
    >>>>> discussion about intention versus physical replication involving hardware,
    >>>>> which could change the work.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Art institutions have begun to look at these issues systematically. The
    >>>>> Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the Berkeley
    >>>>> Art
    >>>>> Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for digital
    >>>>> artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in
    >>>>> Minneapolis
    >>>>> and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The National
    >>>>> Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to create models
    >>>>> for
    >>>>> preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois Foundation
    >>>>> for
    >>>>> Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium on
    >>>>> variable
    >>>>> media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older software.
    >>>>> And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in London and
    >>>>> the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
    >>>>> materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome, which
    >>>>> documents digital work by participating artists and works with the Museum
    >>>>> of
    >>>>> Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any standards for
    >>>>> how
    >>>>> to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve work that is
    >>>>> online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
    >>>>>
    >>>>> In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include storing
    >>>>> the
    >>>>> original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing extensive
    >>>>> documentation.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about digital
    >>>>> art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may be at the
    >>>>> forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly developing is
    >>>>> this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be able to see
    >>>>> what
    >>>>> was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then will come a
    >>>>> period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. But this is
    >>>>> not
    >>>>> limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things will be for
    >>>>> our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to everyone in
    >>>>> every
    >>>>> walk of life. Government documents, for example."
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates the
    >>>>> logical
    >>>>> from the physical."
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "We have worried about preserving the physical," he said. "Perhaps we
    >>>>> should
    >>>>> be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has written
    >>>>> academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin to a music
    >>>>> score DH with work recognizable even if some of the period instruments in
    >>>>> use
    >>>>> at the time of creation are changed.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The larger issues of digital preservation have drawn attention at
    >>>>> conferences, in academic reviews and in expensive proposals. The
    >>>>> popularity
    >>>>> of electronic media and the Internet have made it easy to publish DH but to
    >>>>> keep, catalog and find materials later is more complicated. Preservation
    >>>>> can
    >>>>> become a juggling act among competing archiving media. Photographs, for
    >>>>> example, have been moved from digital files to CD-ROM's to optical drives
    >>>>> or
    >>>>> tapes or other media that also have maintenance issues.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> A program led by the Library of Congress for digital preservation was
    >>>>> granted nearly $100 million in 2000 to commission efforts among public and
    >>>>> private libraries and institutions that need to maintain collections.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "Creating art through time-based media means also talking about the 3-D
    >>>>> effect of the art, or about how the information is received by the
    >>>>> viewer,"
    >>>>> said James Coddington, the chief conservator for MoMA. "The question
    >>>>> becomes, What is the information that we need to transmit? If future
    >>>>> generations are to understand the art of our time, they need to have real
    >>>>> examples presented in authentic manner to understand what we and our
    >>>>> artists
    >>>>> were talking about. And that is very difficult."
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Correction: March 31, 2006
    >>>>>
    >>>>> An article in the special Museums section yesterday about methods for
    >>>>> preserving digital art misidentified the museum with which Rhizome, an
    >>>>> online arts organization, is affiliated; it is the New Museum of
    >>>>> Contemporary Art in New York, not the Museum of Contemporary Art in Los
    >>>>> Angeles.
    >>>>> --
    >>>>> Lee Wells
    >>>>> Brooklyn, NY 11222
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://www.leewells.org
    >>>>> http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
    >>>>> 917 723 2524
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> +
    >>>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >>>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >>>>> +
    >>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >>>>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >> +
    >> -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >> +
    >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
  • Pall Thayer | Mon Apr 3rd 2006 9:33 a.m.
    Interesting. I hadn't read the article before but now that I have,
    I'd like to just point to my last post, "I have a suggestion for
    Rhizome..." Preserve the code. I would even go so far as to say that,
    if there is a "material" aspect to digital art, it is the code.

    Pall

    On 4.4.2006, at 00:09, Lauren Cornell wrote:

    >
    > No, you're not. I started receiving these messages last week, and
    > thought
    > I was the only one. With the server issues we encountered, looking
    > into got
    > laid to the wayside. We will do so asap, and let you know.. -- L
    >
    >
    > On 4/2/06 11:49 AM, "Lee Wells" <lee@leewells.org> wrote:
    >
    >> I'm glad I'm not alone.
    >>
    >> On 4/2/06 12:26 PM, "marc" <marc.garrett@furtherfield.org> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I would'nt mind knowing also...
    >>>
    >>> marc
    >>>
    >>>> Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
    >>>>
    >>>> On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list@rhizome.org> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> mailia
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Lee Wells <lee@leewells.org> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Nice quote Lauren.
    >>>>>> Cheers.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> March 29, 2006
    >>>>>> Conservation
    >>>>>> Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
    >>>>>> By TERRY SCHWADRON
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Correction Appended
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been
    >>>>>> forced to worry
    >>>>>> about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into
    >>>>>> pieces.
    >>>>>> Despite
    >>>>>> the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and
    >>>>>> conservators
    >>>>>> have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the
    >>>>>> digital era,
    >>>>>> with
    >>>>>> artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience,
    >>>>>> but also
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>> traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How
    >>>>>> does a museum
    >>>>>> safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and
    >>>>>> that may be
    >>>>>> based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in
    >>>>>> less than
    >>>>>> two
    >>>>>> years?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided
    >>>>>> to keep
    >>>>>> something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media
    >>>>>> at the
    >>>>>> Berkeley
    >>>>>> Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of
    >>>>>> California.
    >>>>>> "That's
    >>>>>> what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art
    >>>>>> is different
    >>>>>> because it essentially can disappear."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five
    >>>>>> years,
    >>>>>> whichever comes first," he added.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works
    >>>>>> of variable
    >>>>>> media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and
    >>>>>> digital art,
    >>>>>> represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic
    >>>>>> creation of
    >>>>>> our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and
    >>>>>> preservation, many of
    >>>>>> these vital works will eventually be lost to art history."
    >>>>>> There is
    >>>>>> growing
    >>>>>> concern about preserving digital documents and art among
    >>>>>> museum personnel,
    >>>>>> libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms,
    >>>>>> performance
    >>>>>> art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that
    >>>>>> can be
    >>>>>> difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend
    >>>>>> to another
    >>>>>> institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art
    >>>>>> may be
    >>>>>> limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a
    >>>>>> senior
    >>>>>> conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim
    >>>>>> Museum in
    >>>>>> New
    >>>>>> York. "There have always been periods in history in which
    >>>>>> there was
    >>>>>> experimentation in art, and there have always been new
    >>>>>> materials. But the
    >>>>>> questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of
    >>>>>> the media. We
    >>>>>> must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the
    >>>>>> work, which
    >>>>>> allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term
    >>>>>> preservation."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer
    >>>>>> code was not
    >>>>>> part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions
    >>>>>> about
    >>>>>> maintaining a collection.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> For example:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public
    >>>>>> Opinion)," was
    >>>>>> shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies
    >>>>>> against a
    >>>>>> wall
    >>>>>> where people could remove them, changing the shape. To
    >>>>>> consider preserving
    >>>>>> the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's
    >>>>>> estate (he died
    >>>>>> in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was
    >>>>>> important; the
    >>>>>> pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of
    >>>>>> the candies
    >>>>>> must
    >>>>>> be the same.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "For the moment, those same candies are still available, but
    >>>>>> they may not
    >>>>>> always be available," although efforts have been made to specify
    >>>>>> acceptable
    >>>>>> parameters, she said.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called
    >>>>>> "net.flag"
    >>>>>> invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to
    >>>>>> change a set
    >>>>>> of
    >>>>>> stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how
    >>>>>> the Internet
    >>>>>> has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the
    >>>>>> interactivity,
    >>>>>> which is difficult to preserve.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made
    >>>>>> on machinery
    >>>>>> using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma
    >>>>>> screens and with
    >>>>>> other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art
    >>>>>> reflects the
    >>>>>> discussion about intention versus physical replication
    >>>>>> involving hardware,
    >>>>>> which could change the work.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Art institutions have begun to look at these issues
    >>>>>> systematically. The
    >>>>>> Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes
    >>>>>> the Berkeley
    >>>>>> Art
    >>>>>> Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community
    >>>>>> for digital
    >>>>>> artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in
    >>>>>> Minneapolis
    >>>>>> and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The
    >>>>>> National
    >>>>>> Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to
    >>>>>> create models
    >>>>>> for
    >>>>>> preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois
    >>>>>> Foundation
    >>>>>> for
    >>>>>> Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and
    >>>>>> symposium on
    >>>>>> variable
    >>>>>> media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run
    >>>>>> older software.
    >>>>>> And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern
    >>>>>> in London and
    >>>>>> the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
    >>>>>> materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of
    >>>>>> Rhizome, which
    >>>>>> documents digital work by participating artists and works with
    >>>>>> the Museum
    >>>>>> of
    >>>>>> Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any
    >>>>>> standards for
    >>>>>> how
    >>>>>> to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve
    >>>>>> work that is
    >>>>>> online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques
    >>>>>> include storing
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>> original work and machinery, making computer copies or
    >>>>>> preparing extensive
    >>>>>> documentation.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions
    >>>>>> about digital
    >>>>>> art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art,
    >>>>>> may be at the
    >>>>>> forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly
    >>>>>> developing is
    >>>>>> this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be
    >>>>>> able to see
    >>>>>> what
    >>>>>> was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then
    >>>>>> will come a
    >>>>>> period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on.
    >>>>>> But this is
    >>>>>> not
    >>>>>> limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things
    >>>>>> will be for
    >>>>>> our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to
    >>>>>> everyone in
    >>>>>> every
    >>>>>> walk of life. Government documents, for example."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art
    >>>>>> "separates the
    >>>>>> logical
    >>>>>> from the physical."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "We have worried about preserving the physical," he said.
    >>>>>> "Perhaps we
    >>>>>> should
    >>>>>> be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart
    >>>>>> has written
    >>>>>> academic proposals for creating documentation that is more
    >>>>>> akin to a music
    >>>>>> score
  • ryan griffis | Mon Apr 3rd 2006 9:47 a.m.
    Apparently, Mailia is some software that someone on the list is
    running, so it's auto-replying to everyone's email...
    see:
    http://www.rhizome.org/thread.rhiz?thread 772&page=1
    ryan

    On Apr 3, 2006, at 11:09 PM, Lauren Cornell wrote:

    >
    > No, you're not. I started receiving these messages last week, and
    > thought
    > I was the only one. With the server issues we encountered, looking
    > into got
    > laid to the wayside. We will do so asap, and let you know.. -- L
    >
    >
    > On 4/2/06 11:49 AM, "Lee Wells" <lee@leewells.org> wrote:
    >
    >> I'm glad I'm not alone.
    >>
    >> On 4/2/06 12:26 PM, "marc" <marc.garrett@furtherfield.org> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I would'nt mind knowing also...
    >>>
    >>> marc
    >>>
    >>>> Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
    >>>>
    >>>> On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list@rhizome.org> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> mailia
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Lee Wells <lee@leewells.org> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Nice quote Lauren.
    >>>>>> Cheers.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> March 29, 2006
    >>>>>> Conservation
    >>>>>> Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
    >>>>>> By TERRY SCHWADRON
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Correction Appended
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been forced
    >>>>>> to worry
    >>>>>> about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into
    >>>>>> pieces.
    >>>>>> Despite
    >>>>>> the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and
    >>>>>> conservators
    >>>>>> have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the
    >>>>>> digital era,
    >>>>>> with
    >>>>>> artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience,
    >>>>>> but also
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>> traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does a
    >>>>>> museum
    >>>>>> safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and
    >>>>>> that may be
    >>>>>> based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in
    >>>>>> less than
    >>>>>> two
    >>>>>> years?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided to
    >>>>>> keep
    >>>>>> something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>> Berkeley
    >>>>>> Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of
    >>>>>> California.
    >>>>>> "That's
    >>>>>> what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is
    >>>>>> different
    >>>>>> because it essentially can disappear."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five
    >>>>>> years,
    >>>>>> whichever comes first," he added.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of
    >>>>>> variable
    >>>>>> media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and
    >>>>>> digital art,
    >>>>>> represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic
    >>>>>> creation of
    >>>>>> our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and preservation,
    >>>>>> many of
    >>>>>> these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There
    >>>>>> is
    >>>>>> growing
    >>>>>> concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum
    >>>>>> personnel,
    >>>>>> libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms,
    >>>>>> performance
    >>>>>> art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that can
    >>>>>> be
    >>>>>> difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to
    >>>>>> another
    >>>>>> institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art may
    >>>>>> be
    >>>>>> limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a
    >>>>>> senior
    >>>>>> conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim
    >>>>>> Museum in
    >>>>>> New
    >>>>>> York. "There have always been periods in history in which there
    >>>>>> was
    >>>>>> experimentation in art, and there have always been new materials.
    >>>>>> But the
    >>>>>> questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the
    >>>>>> media. We
    >>>>>> must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the work,
    >>>>>> which
    >>>>>> allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term
    >>>>>> preservation."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer code
    >>>>>> was not
    >>>>>> part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions
    >>>>>> about
    >>>>>> maintaining a collection.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> For example:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public
    >>>>>> Opinion)," was
    >>>>>> shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies
    >>>>>> against a
    >>>>>> wall
    >>>>>> where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider
    >>>>>> preserving
    >>>>>> the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's estate
    >>>>>> (he died
    >>>>>> in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was
    >>>>>> important; the
    >>>>>> pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the
    >>>>>> candies
    >>>>>> must
    >>>>>> be the same.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "For the moment, those same candies are still available, but they
    >>>>>> may not
    >>>>>> always be available," although efforts have been made to specify
    >>>>>> acceptable
    >>>>>> parameters, she said.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called
    >>>>>> "net.flag"
    >>>>>> invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to
    >>>>>> change a set
    >>>>>> of
    >>>>>> stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the
    >>>>>> Internet
    >>>>>> has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the
    >>>>>> interactivity,
    >>>>>> which is difficult to preserve.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on
    >>>>>> machinery
    >>>>>> using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma screens
    >>>>>> and with
    >>>>>> other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art
    >>>>>> reflects the
    >>>>>> discussion about intention versus physical replication involving
    >>>>>> hardware,
    >>>>>> which could change the work.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Art institutions have begun to look at these issues
    >>>>>> systematically. The
    >>>>>> Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the
    >>>>>> Berkeley
    >>>>>> Art
    >>>>>> Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for
    >>>>>> digital
    >>>>>> artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in
    >>>>>> Minneapolis
    >>>>>> and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The
    >>>>>> National
    >>>>>> Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to create
    >>>>>> models
    >>>>>> for
    >>>>>> preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois
    >>>>>> Foundation
    >>>>>> for
    >>>>>> Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium
    >>>>>> on
    >>>>>> variable
    >>>>>> media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older
    >>>>>> software.
    >>>>>> And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in
    >>>>>> London and
    >>>>>> the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
    >>>>>> materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome,
    >>>>>> which
    >>>>>> documents digital work by participating artists and works with
    >>>>>> the Museum
    >>>>>> of
    >>>>>> Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any
    >>>>>> standards for
    >>>>>> how
    >>>>>> to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve work
    >>>>>> that is
    >>>>>> online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include
    >>>>>> storing
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>> original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing
    >>>>>> extensive
    >>>>>> documentation.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about
    >>>>>> digital
    >>>>>> art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may
    >>>>>> be at the
    >>>>>> forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly
    >>>>>> developing is
    >>>>>> this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be able
    >>>>>> to see
    >>>>>> what
    >>>>>> was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then
    >>>>>> will come a
    >>>>>> period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. But
    >>>>>> this is
    >>>>>> not
    >>>>>> limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things
    >>>>>> will be for
    >>>>>> our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to
    >>>>>> everyone in
    >>>>>> every
    >>>>>> walk of life. Government documents, for example."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>> logical
    >>>>>> from the physical."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "We have worried about preserving the physical," he said.
    >>>>>> "Perhaps we
    >>>>>> should
    >>>>>> be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has
    >>>>>> written
    >>>>>> academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin
    >>>>>> to a music
    >>>>>> score
  • marc garrett | Tue Apr 4th 2006 10:08 a.m.
    Hi Lauren,

    I started receiving them and I thought that it was just another one of
    those spam games by some net art prankster at first...

    I received them usually after sending something to Rhizome - did (or do
    you) you have an problem with your email systems being used by spammers
    on your server? I now that it is most common when a server is using
    Microsoft's Exchange, or though we had a similar issue on our server
    last year and it was not a Microsoft system.

    Anyway,

    Hope it all works out :-)

    marc

    >No, you're not. I started receiving these messages last week, and thought
    >I was the only one. With the server issues we encountered, looking into got
    >laid to the wayside. We will do so asap, and let you know.. -- L
    >
    >
    >On 4/2/06 11:49 AM, "Lee Wells" <lee@leewells.org> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >>I'm glad I'm not alone.
    >>
    >>On 4/2/06 12:26 PM, "marc" <marc.garrett@furtherfield.org> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>I would'nt mind knowing also...
    >>>
    >>>marc
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
    >>>>
    >>>>On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list@rhizome.org> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>mailia
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Lee Wells <lee@leewells.org> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>Nice quote Lauren.
    >>>>>>Cheers.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>March 29, 2006
    >>>>>>Conservation
    >>>>>>Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
    >>>>>>By TERRY SCHWADRON
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Correction Appended
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been forced to worry
    >>>>>>about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into pieces.
    >>>>>>Despite
    >>>>>>the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and conservators
    >>>>>>have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the digital era,
    >>>>>>with
    >>>>>>artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience, but also
    >>>>>>the
    >>>>>>traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does a museum
    >>>>>>safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and that may be
    >>>>>>based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in less than
    >>>>>>two
    >>>>>>years?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>"It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided to keep
    >>>>>>something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at the
    >>>>>>Berkeley
    >>>>>>Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of California.
    >>>>>>"That's
    >>>>>>what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is different
    >>>>>>because it essentially can disappear."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>"I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five years,
    >>>>>>whichever comes first," he added.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of variable
    >>>>>>media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and digital art,
    >>>>>>represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic creation of
    >>>>>>our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and preservation, many of
    >>>>>>these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There is
    >>>>>>growing
    >>>>>>concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum personnel,
    >>>>>>libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms,
    >>>>>>performance
    >>>>>>art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that can be
    >>>>>>difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to another
    >>>>>>institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art may be
    >>>>>>limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>"Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a senior
    >>>>>>conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum in
    >>>>>>New
    >>>>>>York. "There have always been periods in history in which there was
    >>>>>>experimentation in art, and there have always been new materials. But the
    >>>>>>questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the media. We
    >>>>>>must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the work, which
    >>>>>>allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term preservation."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer code was not
    >>>>>>part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions about
    >>>>>>maintaining a collection.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>For example:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public Opinion)," was
    >>>>>>shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies against a
    >>>>>>wall
    >>>>>>where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider preserving
    >>>>>>the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's estate (he died
    >>>>>>in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was important; the
    >>>>>>pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the candies
    >>>>>>must
    >>>>>>be the same.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>"For the moment, those same candies are still available, but they may not
    >>>>>>always be available," although efforts have been made to specify
    >>>>>>acceptable
    >>>>>>parameters, she said.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called "net.flag"
    >>>>>>invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to change a set
    >>>>>>of
    >>>>>>stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the Internet
    >>>>>>has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the
    >>>>>>interactivity,
    >>>>>>which is difficult to preserve.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on machinery
    >>>>>>using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma screens and with
    >>>>>>other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art reflects the
    >>>>>>discussion about intention versus physical replication involving hardware,
    >>>>>>which could change the work.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Art institutions have begun to look at these issues systematically. The
    >>>>>>Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the Berkeley
    >>>>>>Art
    >>>>>>Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for digital
    >>>>>>artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in
    >>>>>>Minneapolis
    >>>>>>and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The National
    >>>>>>Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to create models
    >>>>>>for
    >>>>>>preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois Foundation
    >>>>>>for
    >>>>>>Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium on
    >>>>>>variable
    >>>>>>media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older software.
    >>>>>>And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in London and
    >>>>>>the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>"It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
    >>>>>>materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome, which
    >>>>>>documents digital work by participating artists and works with the Museum
    >>>>>>of
    >>>>>>Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any standards for
    >>>>>>how
    >>>>>>to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve work that is
    >>>>>>online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include storing
    >>>>>>the
    >>>>>>original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing extensive
    >>>>>>documentation.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about digital
    >>>>>>art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may be at the
    >>>>>>forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly developing is
    >>>>>>this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be able to see
    >>>>>>what
    >>>>>>was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then will come a
    >>>>>>period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. But this is
    >>>>>>not
    >>>>>>limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things will be for
    >>>>>>our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to everyone in
    >>>>>>every
    >>>>>>walk of life. Government documents, for example."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates the
    >>>>>>logical
    >>>>>>from the physical."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>"We have worried about preserving the physical," he said. "Perhaps we
    >>>>>>should
    >>>>>>be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has written
    >>>>>>academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin to a music
    >>>>>>score DH with work recognizable even if some of the period instruments in
    >>>>>>use
    >>>>>>at the time of creation are changed.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>The larger issues of digital preservation have drawn attention at
    >>>>>>conferences, in academic reviews and in expensive proposals. The
    >>>>>>popularity
    >>>>>>of electronic media and the Internet have made it easy to publish DH but to
    >>>>>>keep, catalog and find materials later is more complicated. Preservation
    >>>>>>can
    >>>>>>become a juggling act among competing archiving media. Photographs, for
    >>>>>>example, have been moved from digital files to CD-ROM's to optical drives
    >>>>>>or
    >>>>>>tapes or other media that also have maintenance issues.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>A program led by the Library of Congress for digital preservation was
    >>>>>>granted nearly $100 million in 2000 to commission efforts among public and
    >>>>>>private libraries and institutions that need to maintain collections.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>"Creating art through time-based media means also talking about the 3-D
    >>>>>>effect of the art, or about how the information is received by the
    >>>>>>viewer,"
    >>>>>>said James Coddington, the chief conservator for MoMA. "The question
    >>>>>>becomes, What is the information that we need to transmit? If future
    >>>>>>generations are to understand the art of our time, they need to have real
    >>>>>>examples presented in authentic manner to understand what we and our
    >>>>>>artists
    >>>>>>were talking about. And that is very difficult."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Correction: March 31, 2006
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>An article in the special Museums section yesterday about methods for
    >>>>>>preserving digital art misidentified the museum with which Rhizome, an
    >>>>>>online arts organization, is affiliated; it is the New Museum of
    >>>>>>Contemporary Art in New York, not the Museum of Contemporary Art in Los
    >>>>>>Angeles.
    >>>>>>--
    >>>>>>Lee Wells
    >>>>>>Brooklyn, NY 11222
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>http://www.leewells.org
    >>>>>>http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
    >>>>>>917 723 2524
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>+
    >>>>>>-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >>>>>>-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >>>>>>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >>>>>>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >>>>>>+
    >>>>>>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >>>>>>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>+
    >>>-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >>>-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >>>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >>>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >>>+
    >>>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >>>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
    >+
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >
    >
    >
  • Eric Dymond | Tue Apr 4th 2006 1:25 p.m.
    I think the mailia (responder) is the work of an artist based in Germany:
    mi_ga

    http://triple-double-u.com/mailia/

    Eric
  • Patrick May | Tue Apr 4th 2006 1:48 p.m.
    Hello,

    So, Mailia is apparently an art project written by this Rhizome user:

    mi_ga@o-o.lt

    There's enough of a history of spam / art to complicate matters.
    There are plenty unrequested, confusing, and obscure emails which are
    sent to RAW. That's part of the beauty of RAW.

    What bothers me is the forgery of the "list@rhizome.org" email
    address. I think this classic virus / spam technique is evasive and
    ultimately abusive as it takes up our time to investigate the problem.

    I'd rather that mi_ga take responsibility for his / her progeny and
    use a more appropriate "From Address". Although it may have been
    mi_ga's intention for us at Rhizome to answer questions about the
    artwork, our recent server issues have put a strain on our time.

    My question is whether the readers of RAW think that it is
    appropriate for me to proceed with these actions:

    * report mi_ga and mi_ga's ISP as a spammer
    * remove mi_ga from the Rhizome RAW list.

    Cheers,

    Patrick

    --
    Patrick May
    Director of Technology
    Rhizome.org
    phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
    AIM: cyclochew
    + + +

    On Apr 3, 2006, at 11:47 AM, Ryan Griffis wrote:

    > Apparently, Mailia is some software that someone on the list is
    > running, so it's auto-replying to everyone's email...
    > see:
    > http://www.rhizome.org/thread.rhiz?thread 772&page=1
    > ryan
    >
    > On Apr 3, 2006, at 11:09 PM, Lauren Cornell wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> No, you're not. I started receiving these messages last week, and
    >> thought
    >> I was the only one. With the server issues we encountered, looking
    >> into got
    >> laid to the wayside. We will do so asap, and let you know.. -- L
    >>
    >>
    >> On 4/2/06 11:49 AM, "Lee Wells" <lee@leewells.org> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I'm glad I'm not alone.
    >>>
    >>> On 4/2/06 12:26 PM, "marc" <marc.garrett@furtherfield.org> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I would'nt mind knowing also...
    >>>>
    >>>> marc
    >>>>
    >>>>> Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list@rhizome.org> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> mailia
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Lee Wells <lee@leewells.org> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Nice quote Lauren.
    >>>>>>> Cheers.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> March 29, 2006
    >>>>>>> Conservation
    >>>>>>> Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
    >>>>>>> By TERRY SCHWADRON
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Correction Appended
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been
    >>>>>>> forced to worry
    >>>>>>> about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into
    >>>>>>> pieces.
    >>>>>>> Despite
    >>>>>>> the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and
    >>>>>>> conservators
    >>>>>>> have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the
    >>>>>>> digital era,
    >>>>>>> with
    >>>>>>> artists presenting work that challenges not only the
    >>>>>>> audience, but also
    >>>>>>> the
    >>>>>>> traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How
    >>>>>>> does a museum
    >>>>>>> safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience
    >>>>>>> and that may be
    >>>>>>> based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear
    >>>>>>> in less than
    >>>>>>> two
    >>>>>>> years?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "It's certainly been a problem since the first time we
    >>>>>>> decided to keep
    >>>>>>> something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media
    >>>>>>> at the
    >>>>>>> Berkeley
    >>>>>>> Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of
    >>>>>>> California.
    >>>>>>> "That's
    >>>>>>> what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art
    >>>>>>> is different
    >>>>>>> because it essentially can disappear."
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five
    >>>>>>> years,
    >>>>>>> whichever comes first," he added.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem:
    >>>>>>> "Works of variable
    >>>>>>> media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and
    >>>>>>> digital art,
    >>>>>>> represent some of the most compelling and significant
    >>>>>>> artistic creation of
    >>>>>>> our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and
    >>>>>>> preservation, many of
    >>>>>>> these vital works will eventually be lost to art history."
    >>>>>>> There is
    >>>>>>> growing
    >>>>>>> concern about preserving digital documents and art among
    >>>>>>> museum personnel,
    >>>>>>> libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms,
    >>>>>>> performance
    >>>>>>> art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that
    >>>>>>> can be
    >>>>>>> difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or
    >>>>>>> lend to another
    >>>>>>> institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art
    >>>>>>> may be
    >>>>>>> limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari,
    >>>>>>> a senior
    >>>>>>> conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim
    >>>>>>> Museum in
    >>>>>>> New
    >>>>>>> York. "There have always been periods in history in which
    >>>>>>> there was
    >>>>>>> experimentation in art, and there have always been new
    >>>>>>> materials. But the
    >>>>>>> questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of
    >>>>>>> the media. We
    >>>>>>> must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the
    >>>>>>> work, which
    >>>>>>> allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term
    >>>>>>> preservation."
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer
    >>>>>>> code was not
    >>>>>>> part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises
    >>>>>>> questions about
    >>>>>>> maintaining a collection.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> For example:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public
    >>>>>>> Opinion)," was
    >>>>>>> shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies
    >>>>>>> against a
    >>>>>>> wall
    >>>>>>> where people could remove them, changing the shape. To
    >>>>>>> consider preserving
    >>>>>>> the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's
    >>>>>>> estate (he died
    >>>>>>> in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was
    >>>>>>> important; the
    >>>>>>> pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of
    >>>>>>> the candies
    >>>>>>> must
    >>>>>>> be the same.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "For the moment, those same candies are still available, but
    >>>>>>> they may not
    >>>>>>> always be available," although efforts have been made to specify
    >>>>>>> acceptable
    >>>>>>> parameters, she said.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called
    >>>>>>> "net.flag"
    >>>>>>> invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to
    >>>>>>> change a set
    >>>>>>> of
    >>>>>>> stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how
    >>>>>>> the Internet
    >>>>>>> has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the
    >>>>>>> interactivity,
    >>>>>>> which is difficult to preserve.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made
    >>>>>>> on machinery
    >>>>>>> using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma
    >>>>>>> screens and with
    >>>>>>> other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art
    >>>>>>> reflects the
    >>>>>>> discussion about intention versus physical replication
    >>>>>>> involving hardware,
    >>>>>>> which could change the work.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Art institutions have begun to look at these issues
    >>>>>>> systematically. The
    >>>>>>> Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes
    >>>>>>> the Berkeley
    >>>>>>> Art
    >>>>>>> Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community
    >>>>>>> for digital
    >>>>>>> artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in
    >>>>>>> Minneapolis
    >>>>>>> and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The
    >>>>>>> National
    >>>>>>> Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to
    >>>>>>> create models
    >>>>>>> for
    >>>>>>> preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois
    >>>>>>> Foundation
    >>>>>>> for
    >>>>>>> Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and
    >>>>>>> symposium on
    >>>>>>> variable
    >>>>>>> media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run
    >>>>>>> older software.
    >>>>>>> And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern
    >>>>>>> in London and
    >>>>>>> the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are
    >>>>>>> not
    >>>>>>> materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of
    >>>>>>> Rhizome, which
    >>>>>>> documents digital work by participating artists and works
    >>>>>>> with the Museum
    >>>>>>> of
    >>>>>>> Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any
    >>>>>>> standards for
    >>>>>>> how
    >>>>>>> to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve
    >>>>>>> work that is
    >>>>>>> online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques
    >>>>>>> include storing
    >>>>>>> the
    >>>>>>> original work and machinery, making computer copies or
    >>>>>>> preparing extensive
    >>>>>>> documentation.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions
    >>>>>>> about digital
    >>>>>>> art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art,
    >>>>>>> may be at the
    >>>>>>> forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly
    >>>>>>> developing is
    >>>>>>> this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be
    >>>>>>> able to see
    >>>>>>> what
    >>>>>>> was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then
    >>>>>>> will come a
    >>>>>>> period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on.
    >>>>>>> But this is
    >>>>>>> not
    >>>>>>> limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things
    >>>>>>> will be for
    >>>>>>> our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to
    >>>>>>> everyone in
    >>>>>>> every
    >>>>>>> walk of life. Government documents, for example."
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art
    >>>>>>> "separates the
    >>>>>>> logical
    >>>>>>> from the physical."
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "We have worried about preserving the physical," he said.
    >>>>>>> "Perhaps we
    >>>>>>> should
    >>>>>>> be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart
    >>>>>>> has written
    >>>>>>> academic proposals for creating documentation that is more
    >>>>>>> akin to a music
    >>>>>>> score
  • Lauren Cornell | Tue Apr 4th 2006 1:49 p.m.
    Hi Marc:

    Thanks for this -- Patrick has been looking into it today, and is about to
    write to the list about it.

    Hope Node.London went off well! I heard it was great..

    Best,
    Lauren

    On 4/4/06 8:52 AM, "marc" <marc.garrett@furtherfield.org> wrote:

    > Hi Lauren,
    >
    > I started receiving them and I thought that it was just another one of
    > those spam games by some net art prankster at first...
    >
    > I received them usually after sending something to Rhizome - did (or do
    > you) you have an problem with your email systems being used by spammers
    > on your server? I now that it is most common when a server is using
    > Microsoft's Exchange, or though we had a similar issue on our server
    > last year and it was not a Microsoft system.
    >
    > Anyway,
    >
    > Hope it all works out :-)
    >
    > marc
    >
    >
    >
    >> No, you're not. I started receiving these messages last week, and thought
    >> I was the only one. With the server issues we encountered, looking into got
    >> laid to the wayside. We will do so asap, and let you know.. -- L
    >>
    >>
    >> On 4/2/06 11:49 AM, "Lee Wells" <lee@leewells.org> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> I'm glad I'm not alone.
    >>>
    >>> On 4/2/06 12:26 PM, "marc" <marc.garrett@furtherfield.org> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> I would'nt mind knowing also...
    >>>>
    >>>> marc
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Can someone explain to me what mailia is?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On 4/2/06 12:50 PM, "rhizome" <list@rhizome.org> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> mailia
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Lee Wells <lee@leewells.org> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Nice quote Lauren.
    >>>>>>> Cheers.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> March 29, 2006
    >>>>>>> Conservation
    >>>>>>> Preserving Work That Falls Outside the Norm
    >>>>>>> By TERRY SCHWADRON
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Correction Appended
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> FOR centuries, museums, libraries and collectors have been forced to
    >>>>>>> worry
    >>>>>>> about how to keep artifacts and documents from falling into pieces.
    >>>>>>> Despite
    >>>>>>> the inevitable decay of the materials involved, curators and
    >>>>>>> conservators
    >>>>>>> have protected mummies, paintings and other objects.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Now these curators and conservators find themselves in the digital era,
    >>>>>>> with
    >>>>>>> artists presenting work that challenges not only the audience, but also
    >>>>>>> the
    >>>>>>> traditions of preservation. The essential question is, How does a museum
    >>>>>>> safeguard work that was built as an interactive experience and that may
    >>>>>>> be
    >>>>>>> based on computer code that will almost certainly disappear in less than
    >>>>>>> two
    >>>>>>> years?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "It's certainly been a problem since the first time we decided to keep
    >>>>>>> something," said Richard Rinehart, director of digital media at the
    >>>>>>> Berkeley
    >>>>>>> Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive of the University of California.
    >>>>>>> "That's
    >>>>>>> what museums do: they are society's memory banks. Digital art is
    >>>>>>> different
    >>>>>>> because it essentially can disappear."
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "I like to joke that digital art can last forever or for five years,
    >>>>>>> whichever comes first," he added.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> The Berkeley Art Museum Web site describes the problem: "Works of
    >>>>>>> variable
    >>>>>>> media art, such as performance, installation, conceptual and digital
    >>>>>>> art,
    >>>>>>> represent some of the most compelling and significant artistic creation
    >>>>>>> of
    >>>>>>> our time. ... Without strategies for cataloging and preservation, many
    >>>>>>> of
    >>>>>>> these vital works will eventually be lost to art history." There is
    >>>>>>> growing
    >>>>>>> concern about preserving digital documents and art among museum
    >>>>>>> personnel,
    >>>>>>> libraries and collectors. Digital art has joined with holograms,
    >>>>>>> performance
    >>>>>>> art, conceptual art and other time-based media creations that can be
    >>>>>>> difficult for a museum to maintain or conjure up again or lend to
    >>>>>>> another
    >>>>>>> institution. While critical appreciation of digital-based art may be
    >>>>>>> limited, there are questions being raised beyond the art itself.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "Preservation represents a continuum," said Carol Stringari, a senior
    >>>>>>> conservator for contemporary art at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum in
    >>>>>>> New
    >>>>>>> York. "There have always been periods in history in which there was
    >>>>>>> experimentation in art, and there have always been new materials. But
    >>>>>>> the
    >>>>>>> questions about preservation remain the same, regardless of the media.
    >>>>>>> We
    >>>>>>> must strive to understand the meaning and integrity of the work, which
    >>>>>>> allows us to make informed decisions about its long-term preservation."
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Keeping alive art that is based on interactivity or computer code was
    >>>>>>> not
    >>>>>>> part of her training, Ms. Stringari said, and raises questions about
    >>>>>>> maintaining a collection.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> For example:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> A Felix Gonzalez-Torres piece from 1991, "Untitled (Public Opinion),"
    >>>>>>> was
    >>>>>>> shown as a pile of cellophane-wrapped black licorice candies against a
    >>>>>>> wall
    >>>>>>> where people could remove them, changing the shape. To consider
    >>>>>>> preserving
    >>>>>>> the work for restaging, the museum dealt with the artist's estate (he
    >>>>>>> died
    >>>>>>> in 1996) on questions like whether the brand of candy was important; the
    >>>>>>> pile's exact shape had to be kept; and the color or look of the candies
    >>>>>>> must
    >>>>>>> be the same.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "For the moment, those same candies are still available, but they may
    >>>>>>> not
    >>>>>>> always be available," although efforts have been made to specify
    >>>>>>> acceptable
    >>>>>>> parameters, she said.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> A computer-based presentation by Mark Napier from 2002 called "net.flag"
    >>>>>>> invited visitors to use symbols from international flags to change a set
    >>>>>>> of
    >>>>>>> stars, among other things, a work partly intended to show how the
    >>>>>>> Internet
    >>>>>>> has dissolved national border limitations. The art is in the
    >>>>>>> interactivity,
    >>>>>>> which is difficult to preserve.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Video works by Nam June Paik, who died in January, were made on
    >>>>>>> machinery
    >>>>>>> using cathode ray tubes, on monitors giving way to plasma screens and
    >>>>>>> with
    >>>>>>> other technology. Conservators suggest that restaging his art reflects
    >>>>>>> the
    >>>>>>> discussion about intention versus physical replication involving
    >>>>>>> hardware,
    >>>>>>> which could change the work.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Art institutions have begun to look at these issues systematically. The
    >>>>>>> Guggenheim is part of a collaborative project that includes the Berkeley
    >>>>>>> Art
    >>>>>>> Museum and Pacific Film Archive, Rhizome, an online community for
    >>>>>>> digital
    >>>>>>> artists, the Franklin Furnace Archive, the Walker Art Center in
    >>>>>>> Minneapolis
    >>>>>>> and the Cleveland Performance Art Festival and Archive. The National
    >>>>>>> Endowment for the Arts granted the consortium $165,000 to create models
    >>>>>>> for
    >>>>>>> preservation. The Guggenheim linked with the Daniel Langlois Foundation
    >>>>>>> for
    >>>>>>> Art, Science and Technology to stage an exhibition and symposium on
    >>>>>>> variable
    >>>>>>> media art and emulation, which uses newer computers to run older
    >>>>>>> software.
    >>>>>>> And the Museum of Modern Art is working with the Tate Modern in London
    >>>>>>> and
    >>>>>>> the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art on related work.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "It is a paradox that the task is to preserve things that are not
    >>>>>>> materials," said Lauren Cornell, executive director of Rhizome, which
    >>>>>>> documents digital work by participating artists and works with the
    >>>>>>> Museum
    >>>>>>> of
    >>>>>>> Contemporary Art in Los Angeles. "There really aren't any standards for
    >>>>>>> how
    >>>>>>> to do this. We're all testing out different ways to preserve work that
    >>>>>>> is
    >>>>>>> online and then goes out of date really, really quickly."
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> In addition to emulation, other preservation techniques include storing
    >>>>>>> the
    >>>>>>> original work and machinery, making computer copies or preparing
    >>>>>>> extensive
    >>>>>>> documentation.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Mr. Rinehart, a digital artist himself, said that questions about
    >>>>>>> digital
    >>>>>>> art may signify a larger issue. "Digital art, like all art, may be at
    >>>>>>> the
    >>>>>>> forefront of a larger question," he said. "What is rapidly developing is
    >>>>>>> this black hole. In the future, people may look back and be able to see
    >>>>>>> what
    >>>>>>> was happening in the 18th century, the 19th century, and then will come
    >>>>>>> a
    >>>>>>> period in which we cannot tell what artists were working on. But this is
    >>>>>>> not
    >>>>>>> limited to the art world. This problem about retaining things will be
    >>>>>>> for
    >>>>>>> our collective social memory, and it will be of concern to everyone in
    >>>>>>> every
    >>>>>>> walk of life. Government documents, for example."
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Still, he added, the heart of computer-generated art "separates the
    >>>>>>> logical
    >>>>>>> from the physical."
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "We have worried about preserving the physical," he said. "Perhaps we
    >>>>>>> should
    >>>>>>> be worried more about preserving the logical." Mr. Rinehart has written
    >>>>>>> academic proposals for creating documentation that is more akin to a
    >>>>>>> music
    >>>>>>> score DH with work recognizable even if some of the period instruments in
    >>>>>>> use
    >>>>>>> at the time of creation are changed.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> The larger issues of digital preservation have drawn attention at
    >>>>>>> conferences, in academic reviews and in expensive proposals. The
    >>>>>>> popularity
    >>>>>>> of electronic media and the Internet have made it easy to publish DH but
    >>>>>>> to
    >>>>>>> keep, catalog and find materials later is more complicated. Preservation
    >>>>>>> can
    >>>>>>> become a juggling act among competing archiving media. Photographs, for
    >>>>>>> example, have been moved from digital files to CD-ROM's to optical
    >>>>>>> drives
    >>>>>>> or
    >>>>>>> tapes or other media that also have maintenance issues.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> A program led by the Library of Congress for digital preservation was
    >>>>>>> granted nearly $100 million in 2000 to commission efforts among public
    >>>>>>> and
    >>>>>>> private libraries and institutions that need to maintain collections.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "Creating art through time-based media means also talking about the 3-D
    >>>>>>> effect of the art, or about how the information is received by the
    >>>>>>> viewer,"
    >>>>>>> said James Coddington, the chief conservator for MoMA. "The question
    >>>>>>> becomes, What is the information that we need to transmit? If future
    >>>>>>> generations are to understand the art of our time, they need to have
    >>>>>>> real
    >>>>>>> examples presented in authentic manner to understand what we and our
    >>>>>>> artists
    >>>>>>> were talking about. And that is very difficult."
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Correction: March 31, 2006
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> An article in the special Museums section yesterday about methods for
    >>>>>>> preserving digital art misidentified the museum with which Rhizome, an
    >>>>>>> online arts organization, is affiliated; it is the New Museum of
    >>>>>>> Contemporary Art in New York, not the Museum of Contemporary Art in Los
    >>>>>>> Angeles.
    >>>>>>> --
    >>>>>>> Lee Wells
    >>>>>>> Brooklyn, NY 11222
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> http://www.leewells.org
    >>>>>>> http://www.perpetualartmachine.com
    >>>>>>> 917 723 2524
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> +
    >>>>>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >>>>>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >>>>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >>>>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >>>>>>> +
    >>>>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >>>>>>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>> +
    >>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >>>> +
    >>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >>>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>
    >>
    >> +
    >> -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >> +
    >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
  • Eric Dymond | Tue Apr 4th 2006 2:28 p.m.
    I would agree, I think the artist (who prefers to remain anonymous)
    shoulod take ownership of the mailings
    Eric

    Mindaugas Gapsevicius (mi_ga) was born in 1974 in Lithuania, he lives and works in Lubeck, Germany and Vilnius, Lithuania.
    Having studied visual arts in Academy of Arts in Vilnius and in Muthesius-Hochschule in Kiel, he works as a network administrator at ISNM, International School of New Media, in Lubeck. In addition he is working as a guest lecturer at University of Arts in Berlin.
    Mindaugas Gapsevicius is one of the initiators of o-o institutio media which was established in 1998 and a co-author of net.art project asco-o. As an artist, he uses to be more often anonymous as real. He likes to play. Acording to him, the play is the core of his works, the reaction to the surroundings and the action of his vision.
  • mez breeze | Tue Apr 4th 2006 2:31 p.m.
    At 05:48 AM 5/04/2006, you wrote:
    > * report mi_ga and mi_ga's ISP as a spammer
    > * remove mi_ga from the Rhizome RAW list.

    p[h]at.trick,

    can i suggest u actually start getting a clue in terms of an x.tended
    net.art practitioner k_no_w.ledge/historical grounding?

    ref: http://cramer.plaintext.cc/personal_archives/codework/mi_ga/

    ...4 1.

    *sighing + shaking head*

    -][mez][-

    _thick.memoir.cableing.nost[||neur]algia.bloody_
    http://www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker/
    http://www.livejournal.com/users/netwurker/

    .
  • Alexis Turner | Tue Apr 4th 2006 2:45 p.m.
    Aside from the fact that the work is a complete rip-off of existing work from
    DXArts faculty member James Coupe, which brings into question its place as
    "art," I don't understand why you would ban it from the list when you have
    failed to ban other spam-like postings from the list. Because it confused
    people and they *actually* thought it was spam? The Incessant "Please do not
    spam art" e-mails to the list actually made me unsubscribe from Rhizome-RAW for
    many months, until I finally just sucked it up and re-subscribed, albeit with a
    new spam filter in place to quickly and thoroughly rid my box of said
    pestilential e-mails.

    If you are not going to ban all spam-like "art" from the list, then don't.
    Don't pick and choose just because one is more successful at looking like spam
    than another. Either ban them all, or none of them. But banning the writer of
    some software and reporting them to their ISP does nothing in the way of
    stopping those that download their work and propogate it from their own
    machines.

    I must admit I find it incredibly wry that the mailia "spammer"
    actually told everyone on the list exactly what the project was before sending
    these e-mails, and, shock of shocks, the list is so regularly full of crap that
    NO ONE BOTHERED TO READ THE HEADS UP EMAIL AND WERE THUS TOTALLY BAFFLED BY THE
    FOLLOWUPS. This probably says something about the general "beauty" of the RAW
    e-mails, that people routinely ignore them. What's one more piece of garbage,
    in such an environment? Perhaps the answer to that question is the very genius
    of mailia.
    -Alexis

    On Tue, 4 Apr 2006, Patrick May wrote:

    ::Hello,
    ::
    ::So, Mailia is apparently an art project written by this Rhizome user:
    ::
    :: mi_ga@o-o.lt
    ::
    ::There's enough of a history of spam / art to complicate matters. There are
    ::plenty unrequested, confusing, and obscure emails which are sent to RAW.
    ::That's part of the beauty of RAW.
    ::
    ::What bothers me is the forgery of the "list@rhizome.org" email address. I
    ::think this classic virus / spam technique is evasive and ultimately abusive as
    ::it takes up our time to investigate the problem.
    ::
    ::I'd rather that mi_ga take responsibility for his / her progeny and use a more
    ::appropriate "From Address". Although it may have been mi_ga's intention for
    ::us at Rhizome to answer questions about the artwork, our recent server issues
    ::have put a strain on our time.
    ::
    ::My question is whether the readers of RAW think that it is appropriate for me
    ::to proceed with these actions:
    ::
    :: * report mi_ga and mi_ga's ISP as a spammer
    :: * remove mi_ga from the Rhizome RAW list.
    ::
    ::Cheers,
    ::
    ::Patrick
    ::
    ::--
    ::Patrick May
    ::Director of Technology
    ::Rhizome.org
    ::phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
    ::AIM: cyclochew
    ::+ + +
  • marc garrett | Tue Apr 4th 2006 3:04 p.m.
    I'm not sure if we should be too hasty in stopping a net art work in its
    tracks - what about giving the artist a voice in this, privately or
    openly - and negotiating something...

    something decent could come out of this - if he's not a real spammer
    then their is a connected context - although I have been wrong before...

    marc

    >I would agree, I think the artist (who prefers to remain anonymous)
    >shoulod take ownership of the mailings
    >Eric
    >
    >Mindaugas Gapsevicius (mi_ga) was born in 1974 in Lithuania, he lives and works in Lubeck, Germany and Vilnius, Lithuania.
    >Having studied visual arts in Academy of Arts in Vilnius and in Muthesius-Hochschule in Kiel, he works as a network administrator at ISNM, International School of New Media, in Lubeck. In addition he is working as a guest lecturer at University of Arts in Berlin.
    >Mindaugas Gapsevicius is one of the initiators of o-o institutio media which was established in 1998 and a co-author of net.art project asco-o. As an artist, he uses to be more often anonymous as real. He likes to play. Acording to him, the play is the core of his works, the reaction to the surroundings and the action of his vision.
    >+
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >
    >
    >
  • Rob Myers | Tue Apr 4th 2006 5:44 p.m.
    On 4 Apr 2006, at 21:31, ][catching.22][ wrote:

    > can i suggest u actually start getting a clue in terms of an
    > x.tended net.art practitioner k_no_w.ledge/historical grounding?

    For example did you know that Orphan Drift are still going?

    - Rob.
  • Patrick May | Thu Apr 6th 2006 1:33 p.m.
    Hello,

    Just to clarify, Rhizome is not interested in censoring art by any
    means. But this was a particular case as the artist was using
    "list@rhizome.org" as their alias. This compeled us to respond to
    complaints, of which we'd received many.

    I think it would be best for people to filter out mailia
    individually. Its a misuse of our resources to spend time answering
    for this project in light of our recent server difficulties.

    Personally I think this project is funny, but it has distracted from
    the ongoing rhizome.org recovery process.

    Cheers,

    Patrick

    --
    Patrick May
    Director of Technology
    Rhizome.org
    phone: (212) 219-1288 x202
    AIM: cyclochew
    + + +

    On Apr 4, 2006, at 5:05 PM, marc wrote:

    > I'm not sure if we should be too hasty in stopping a net art work
    > in its tracks - what about giving the artist a voice in this,
    > privately or openly - and negotiating something...
    >
    > something decent could come out of this - if he's not a real
    > spammer then their is a connected context - although I have been
    > wrong before...
    >
    > marc
    >
    >> I would agree, I think the artist (who prefers to remain anonymous)
    >> shoulod take ownership of the mailings
    >> Eric
    >>
    >> Mindaugas Gapsevicius (mi_ga) was born in 1974 in Lithuania, he
    >> lives and works in Lubeck, Germany and Vilnius, Lithuania.
    >> Having studied visual arts in Academy of Arts in Vilnius and in
    >> Muthesius-Hochschule in Kiel, he works as a network administrator
    >> at ISNM, International School of New Media, in Lubeck. In addition
    >> he is working as a guest lecturer at University of Arts in Berlin.
    >> Mindaugas Gapsevicius is one of the initiators of o-o institutio
    >> media which was established in 1998 and a co-author of net.art
    >> project asco-o. As an artist, he uses to be more often anonymous
    >> as real. He likes to play. Acording to him, the play is the core
    >> of his works, the reaction to the surroundings and the action of
    >> his vision.
    >> +
    >> -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
    >> subscribe.rhiz
    >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >> +
    >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/
    >> 29.php
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
    > subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/
    > 29.php
  • Eric Dymond | Thu Apr 6th 2006 10:20 p.m.
    I have to agree with Patrick on the spoofing issue.
    Although the mailia project has many merits, in the past using the rhizome list as a source of email addresses has been discouraged.
    I don't subscribe to RAW via email (I use the web site for posting), but I do receive email messages from mailia in my mail server whenever I post.
    It tells me that there is a conceptual flaw in the mailia project. The flaw is fatal in my opinion.
    Its not about censorship, it is about spoofing the listserv.
    Mailia should take ownership of the responses.
    Then the project would make sense.
    Years ago we all engaged in listserv spoofing (see 1999-2001, but it created a big admin problem that Alex put a stop to.
    There was weekend 7 years ago where the list was flooded with spoofed postings (over 2000-3000 per night) which were for a few days, but....
    And a number of us that were guilty.
    That said, this is 2006, and spoofing is an old trick.
    Please Mailia, stop ... rethink the project.

    Eric
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