post-romantic modernism

Posted by Miklos Legrady | Tue Sep 20th 2005 5:04 p.m.

>>
>
>This requires belief in Spirit, which is Romantic.

Neither belief nor romantic,

psychologically, spirit is one end of a spectrum
whose counterpoint is matter.

"requires belief". it's hard to doubt the existence of spirit;
for example, philosophy is a matter of the spirit.
Nazism was a philosophy which killed millions.

Quite real.
--

Miklos Legrady
310 Bathurst st.
Toronto ON.
M5T 2S3
416-203-1846
647-292-1846
http://www.mikidot.com
  • MaryJo Rosania | Tue Sep 20th 2005 5:54 p.m.
    it sounds at though you speak of Post Modernism in a nostalgic way -
    and nostalgia connotes something that one longs for that never really existed....(according to Susan Stewart)
    do you think we are beyond this era?

    beyond the point when it doesn't matter how the art gets out there, but rather what message the work brings to the culture as a whole?

    this is an accessible medium (the most?) - this is our forum.

    Our work as artists seems more important than programmer vs. artist - brush vs. mouse. Good conversation - but that last part was vital - those issues still exist - "politics as genocide"

    my two cents,
    MaryJo

    > excuse me
    > Nazism is not a philosophy.
    > it is killing strategy.
    > politics as genocide.
    > philosophy is thought thinked as thought (sorry. i would love to post
    > it in Portuguese: o pensamento pensado como pensamento)
    > i hate translation...
    > i would love to speak in any programing language.
    > btw, let's think about Unamuno's law : I am myself and my circumstances
    >
    >
    > 2005/9/20, miklos@sympatico.ca <miklos@sympatico.ca>:
    > > >>
    > > >
    > > >This requires belief in Spirit, which is Romantic.
    > >
    > >
    > > Neither belief nor romantic,
    > >
    > > psychologically, spirit is one end of a spectrum
    > > whose counterpoint is matter.
    > >
    > > "requires belief". it's hard to doubt the existence of spirit;
    > > for example, philosophy is a matter of the spirit.
    > > Nazism was a philosophy which killed millions.
    > >
    > > Quite real.
    > > --
    > >
    > > Miklos Legrady
    > > 310 Bathurst st.
    > > Toronto ON.
    > > M5T 2S3
    > > 416-203-1846
    > > 647-292-1846
    > > http://www.mikidot.com
    > > +
    > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > +
    > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > >
    >
    >
    > --
    > www.desvirtual.com
    > http://netart.incubadora.fapesp.br/
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
  • Billy Gomberg | Tue Sep 20th 2005 6:35 p.m.
    > it sounds at though you speak of Post Modernism in a nostalgic way -
    > and nostalgia connotes something that one longs for that never
    > really existed....(according to Susan Stewart)
    > do you think we are beyond this era?
    >

    I think this defines the main problem with postmodernism in general -
    that it never "actually" "existed" - created largely by critique,
    theory and academicism. so we are always already nostalgic for this
    era or genre that we may actually be experiencing in the present, but
    have no way understand its effects (aesthetic or otherwise) as we
    don't experience "postmodernism" via its existence, but through
    others' insistence upon its existence.

    to this end i named my cat postmodernism. he is a wonderful cat. true.

    b.
    fraufraulein.com
  • MaryJo Rosania | Tue Sep 20th 2005 9:40 p.m.
    and in that case it is nostalgic. it didn't and does not exist.
    (but your cat does...maybe the only postmoderism to really exist)

    I just see something that we romanticize as having a nostalgia surrounding it that cannot be recreated or probably ever really existed, but was in fact a product of our longing.

    I am sure this is a tangent.
    but anyway.
    I can't even recall the original thread, so I apologize.

    what do you call your cat for short?
    or do you always call him/her "postmodernism" the full name?

    MJ

    > it sounds at though you speak of Post Modernism in a nostalgic way -
    > and nostalgia connotes something that one longs for that never really
    > existed....(according to Susan Stewart)
    > do you think we are beyond this era?
    >
    > beyond the point when it doesn't matter how the art gets out there, but rather
    > what message the work brings to the culture as a whole?
    >
    > this is an accessible medium (the most?) - this is our forum.
    >
    > Our work as artists seems more important than programmer vs. artist - brush vs.
    > mouse. Good conversation - but that last part was vital - those issues still
    > exist - "politics as genocide"
    >
    > my two cents,
    > MaryJo
    >
    >
    > > excuse me
    > > Nazism is not a philosophy.
    > > it is killing strategy.
    > > politics as genocide.
    > > philosophy is thought thinked as thought (sorry. i would love to post
    > > it in Portuguese: o pensamento pensado como pensamento)
    > > i hate translation...
    > > i would love to speak in any programing language.
    > > btw, let's think about Unamuno's law : I am myself and my circumstances
    > >
    > >
    > > 2005/9/20, miklos@sympatico.ca <miklos@sympatico.ca>:
    > > > >>
    > > > >
    > > > >This requires belief in Spirit, which is Romantic.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Neither belief nor romantic,
    > > >
    > > > psychologically, spirit is one end of a spectrum
    > > > whose counterpoint is matter.
    > > >
    > > > "requires belief". it's hard to doubt the existence of spirit;
    > > > for example, philosophy is a matter of the spirit.
    > > > Nazism was a philosophy which killed millions.
    > > >
    > > > Quite real.
    > > > --
    > > >
    > > > Miklos Legrady
    > > > 310 Bathurst st.
    > > > Toronto ON.
    > > > M5T 2S3
    > > > 416-203-1846
    > > > 647-292-1846
    > > > http://www.mikidot.com
    > > > +
    > > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > > +
    > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > www.desvirtual.com
    > > http://netart.incubadora.fapesp.br/
    > >
    > > +
    > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > +
    > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
  • Rob Myers | Wed Sep 21st 2005 12:57 a.m.
    On 21 Sep 2005, at 00:00, miklos@sympatico.ca wrote:

    >> This requires belief in Spirit, which is Romantic.
    >
    > Neither belief nor romantic,
    >
    > psychologically, spirit is one end of a spectrum
    > whose counterpoint is matter.

    Allegedly.

    > "requires belief". it's hard to doubt the existence of spirit;

    It is very easy to doubt the existence of a particular philosophical
    idea.

    > for example, philosophy is a matter of the spirit.

    Only for Hegelians in their particular historical context. This is
    like saying science is a matter of phlogiston.

    > Nazism was a philosophy which killed millions.

    It was a (degenerate) Romantic political philosophy. There are
    positions outside Romanticism, fortunately.

    - Rob.
  • Miklos Legrady | Wed Sep 21st 2005 2:49 p.m.
    >
    >
    >to this end i named my cat postmodernism. he is a wonderful cat. true.
    >
    >b.
    >fraufraulein.com
    >+

    Post-Modernism eats fish

    --

    Miklos Legrady
    310 Bathurst st.
    Toronto ON.
    M5T 2S3
    416-203-1846
    647-292-1846
    http://www.mikidot.com
  • Eric Dymond | Fri Sep 23rd 2005 8:41 p.m.
    >and nostalgia connotes something that one longs for that never really >existed....(according to Susan Stewart)
    and of of course acording to George Bush,a man in a hole is worth
    2000+ in the grave.
    Authorities always let us down
    according to Eric Dymond, we are all critters in the same environment.
    nostalgia is a door to experience and depth perception.
    Nostalgia, in the classical sense has nothing to do with existence, it has to do with vague remembrence. All other aspects are "NEW vernacular " interpretations.
    What we long for is real, what we feel nostalgic for is a filtered memory. That is a huge difference.
    Eric
  • Eric Dymond | Fri Sep 23rd 2005 9:43 p.m.
    as a complete aside...
    Do we post to Rhizome ( an American forum) in an American state of Mind?
    Are we influenced by George Bush and the American right wing when we submit to this forum?
    Can we post and know that the forum is at least politically active?
    I wonder, given the opportunities offered by state run competions and "calls for entry".
    Are we always exhibiting our free rights when we contribute?
    America is fettered and constrained. Does Rhizome have a political position? Is it posted and explained? If not, then I urge you NOT to re-subscribe.
    What is the political position of Rhizome?
    I worry.
    sometimes I just long.
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