• patrick lichty | Mon Apr 18th 2005 4:25 a.m.
    Now, this is very interesting!
    I wonder about the cross-overs, such as Fireworks/Photoshop,
    Dreamweaver & Adobe's web editor, etc. In My opinion, there iseems to
    be a real possibility for horizontal monopoly.

    Oh, yes - I think we can then say goodbye to Director, most likely.

    Not sure I like this, but then, it's not for me to like.

    Patrick Lichty
    Editor-In-Chief
    Intelligent Agent Magazine
    http://www.intelligentagent.com
    1556 Clough Street, #28
    Bowling Green, OH 43402
    225 288 5813
    voyd@voyd.com

    "It is better to die on your feet
    than to live on your knees."

    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-list@rhizome.org [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org] On Behalf
    Of Jim Andrews
    Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 5:14 AM
    To: list@rhizome.org
    Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: adobe acquires macromedia

    http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/invrelations/adobeandmacromedia.html
    http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/proom/pr/2005/adobe_macromedia.html
    http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID
  • Jim Andrews | Mon Apr 18th 2005 4:59 a.m.
    > Now, this is very interesting!
    > I wonder about the cross-overs, such as Fireworks/Photoshop,
    > Dreamweaver & Adobe's web editor, etc. In My opinion, there iseems to
    > be a real possibility for horizontal monopoly.
    >
    > Oh, yes - I think we can then say goodbye to Director, most likely.

    Why?

    I don't know why Macromedia is letting themselves be acquired by Adobe,
    really. Macromedia has the more interesting products, to my mind. I don't
    even use Photoshop anymore; i use CorelPaint. And PDFs are nice very nice
    but please. Adobe just hasn't got the Web or multimedia touch?

    As for Director, people have been saying it's gonna die any day now for
    years. Yet there's still a lot of serious work done with it online and
    offline. Mostly offline, actually. The Director lists are active and
    sparklingly intelligent. So I guess we'll see how that goes. Bread circuses
    and mergers.

    ja
    http://vispo.com
  • patrick lichty | Mon Apr 18th 2005 5:24 a.m.
    > Oh, yes - I think we can then say goodbye to Director, most likely.

    Why?

    -> Because Director has been getting less airplay in industry and in the
    technical press. One of the sure signs of an application that might be
    on the way to discontinuation is a drop in numbers of technical books on
    it. I'm not saying that this is a definitive proclamation; merely my
    experience over 15-odd years. I sincerely hope it isn't the case, as I
    just started seriously using it.

    I don't know why Macromedia is letting themselves be acquired by Adobe,
    really. Macromedia has the more interesting products, to my mind. I
    don't
    even use Photoshop anymore; i use CorelPaint. And PDFs are nice very
    nice
    but please. Adobe just hasn't got the Web or multimedia touch?

    -> Exactly. I couldn't agree more. I would not be surprised if this
    were not a hostile takeover as well.

    As for Director, people have been saying it's gonna die any day now for
    years. Yet there's still a lot of serious work done with it online and
    offline. Mostly offline, actually. The Director lists are active and
    sparklingly intelligent. So I guess we'll see how that goes. Bread
    circuses
    and mergers.

    -> Again, I agree. I hope it keeps hanging on; my bet is that since
    it's really the de facto standard for CD multimedia development, it'll
    continue on.

    ja
    http://vispo.com

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  • Rob Myers | Mon Apr 18th 2005 5:25 a.m.
    On Monday, April 18, 2005, at 12:09PM, Jim Andrews <jim@vispo.com> wrote:

    >I don't know why Macromedia is letting themselves be acquired by Adobe,
    >really.

    Because they are a sinking ship? Read FuckedCompany, MM really need restructuring. :-)

    As for Adobe not having any "web magic", possibly that's why they're raiding MM's topybox? ;-)

    - Rob.
  • Jim Andrews | Mon Apr 18th 2005 5:52 a.m.
    I can see things like Freehand folding into Illustrator. Adobe has the ace
    in Illustrator, there. I'm not aware of an Adobe tool, however, that's
    comparable to Director--except Flash. But Flash is mainly for Web stuff and
    interesting as it is, it doesn't have the framerate that you can get in
    Director. Nor the granularity. And the extensibility via Xtras. Nor 3D. Nor
    access down to the pixel concerning bitmaps. Nor the range of the Director
    audio API.

    Perhaps in a few years Flash will reach the stage where it truly is a better
    tool for application-level multimedia than Director is. But I don't see
    evidence of it yet. Flash will eventually kill Director, I imagine, but I
    don't think it's there yet.

    Since Adobe doesn't have anything like Director, it's a question of whether
    they think the day has come that Flash can fulfill the needs of the Director
    market, and whether the Director market is big enough to bother with. The
    answer to the first one is clear: no. The answer to the second, well, I hear
    Flash outsells Director ten to one. So I suspect that the market size will
    be the more problematical issue. But I think Director has been making money.
    Nowhere near as much as Flash. But it isn't a losing business proposition.
    So we'll see.

    ja
    http://vispo.com
  • patrick lichty | Mon Apr 18th 2005 6:18 a.m.
    I can see things like Freehand folding into Illustrator. Adobe has the
    ace
    in Illustrator, there. I'm not aware of an Adobe tool, however, that's
    comparable to Director--except Flash. But Flash is mainly for Web stuff
    and
    interesting as it is, it doesn't have the framerate that you can get in
    Director. Nor the granularity. And the extensibility via Xtras. Nor 3D.
    Nor
    access down to the pixel concerning bitmaps. Nor the range of the
    Director
    audio API.

    -> Yes, but that might not mean that Adobe might not 'somehow' see that
    Director might not be a viable line. As mentioned, I think Director has
    a solid niche; I'm just wondering.

    Since Adobe doesn't have anything like Director, it's a question of
    whether
    they think the day has come that Flash can fulfill the needs of the
    Director
    market, and whether the Director market is big enough to bother with.

    -> On the nose. Another scenario is to spin off Director to another
    company.

    The answer to the second, well, I hear
    Flash outsells Director ten to one. So I suspect that the market size
    will
    be the more problematical issue. But I think Director has been making
    money.
    Nowhere near as much as Flash. But it isn't a losing business
    proposition.

    Yes, but it might not be as profitable as Adobe wants. Again, something
    to watch.

    Atode,
    Patrick
  • Jim Andrews | Mon Apr 18th 2005 6:58 a.m.
    Yes, well it's certainly up in the air, isn't it. They might not be able to
    handle anything as 'small' as Director's market, as you say. In which case
    they'd either can it or sell it. I think it'd be hard to can. Because there
    is a genuine market for it whose needs aren't met by other products. Though,
    you know, if they can it, well, those of us who use it would either move on
    to other tools or steal the source code and release it publicly. That'd be a
    very interesting trip to San Francisco, wouldn't it? Or Seattle, as the case
    may be. Then again, coding from a prison cell, well, I guess that doesn't
    happen much.

    It's been around since 1987 and has survived. Improbably. It's whole
    existence is improbable. It's mainly for artists. Though of course those who
    mainly foot the bill, buy it most, are industrial multi-media companies. As
    in pharmaceutical multi-media etc. It hasn't really gone 'the enterprise
    route'. Never has. Probably can't, by now. The architecture is too fucked up
    for that. Too much baggage. Ha. Like some people I know and love.

    So releasing the source code publicly like Netscape did, dunno, it'd
    certainly be a puzzle. No one person knows the whole thing since it's been
    around since 1987. I wonder what the documentation is like?

    ja
    http://vispo.com
  • Lee Wells | Mon Apr 18th 2005 7:50 a.m.
    Well Adobe would be getting them both if they aquire MM.
    The integration of both toolkits is fine with me , but, not having any
    competition could make them lazy.
    Lee
    On 4/18/05 7:52 AM, "Jim Andrews" <jim@vispo.com> wrote:

    > I can see things like Freehand folding into Illustrator. Adobe has the ace
    > in Illustrator, there. I'm not aware of an Adobe tool, however, that's
    > comparable to Director--except Flash. But Flash is mainly for Web stuff and
    > interesting as it is, it doesn't have the framerate that you can get in
    > Director. Nor the granularity. And the extensibility via Xtras. Nor 3D. Nor
    > access down to the pixel concerning bitmaps. Nor the range of the Director
    > audio API.
    >
    > Perhaps in a few years Flash will reach the stage where it truly is a better
    > tool for application-level multimedia than Director is. But I don't see
    > evidence of it yet. Flash will eventually kill Director, I imagine, but I
    > don't think it's there yet.
    >
    > Since Adobe doesn't have anything like Director, it's a question of whether
    > they think the day has come that Flash can fulfill the needs of the Director
    > market, and whether the Director market is big enough to bother with. The
    > answer to the first one is clear: no. The answer to the second, well, I hear
    > Flash outsells Director ten to one. So I suspect that the market size will
    > be the more problematical issue. But I think Director has been making money.
    > Nowhere near as much as Flash. But it isn't a losing business proposition.
    > So we'll see.
    >
    > ja
    > http://vispo.com
    >
    >
    > +
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    --
    Lee Wells
    Brooklyn, NY 11222

    http://www.leewells.org
    917 723 2524
  • Rob Myers | Mon Apr 18th 2005 8:12 a.m.
    Well there's always SVG.

    Oh.

    More seriously for net art there's Processing. Maybe that will spill over into mainstream multimedia as people build on it as a platform?

    - Rob.

    On Monday, April 18, 2005, at 03:01PM, Lee Wells <lee@leewells.org> wrote:

    >Well Adobe would be getting them both if they aquire MM.
    >The integration of both toolkits is fine with me , but, not having any
    >competition could make them lazy.
  • Francis Hwang | Mon Apr 18th 2005 8:33 a.m.
    On Apr 18, 2005, at 6:59 AM, Jim Andrews wrote:
    > And PDFs are nice very nice
    > but please. Adobe just hasn't got the Web or multimedia touch?

    I don't have much of an opinion on most of this story, since I almost
    never use any of the tools made by either of these vendors. (Maybe I
    fire up ImageReady once a week to tweak a web graphic.) But I have to
    disagree with this: The PDF format is hugely important. Why? Because
    it's the backbone of imaging on OS X. 2D pictures rendered to the
    screen on modern Macs are images turned into the PDF format before
    they're sent to your monitor. And, although a lot of Mac users don't
    know this, every single document that can be printed can be saved to
    PDF, too.

    It's funny, but Apple's move to use PDF may end up making it the
    standard for its field, in spite of its closed nature. Of course, there
    are lots of places where PDF is a completely inappropriate choice: It's
    not so great online or in emails touting your next art opening ... but
    if you want to publish documents in a way where you can guarantee
    they'll look and print the same way on another computer, PDF is the way
    to do it today.

    Francis Hwang
    Director of Technology
    Rhizome.org
    phone: 212-219-1288x202
    AIM: francisrhizome
    + + +
  • Robert Spahr | Mon Apr 18th 2005 9:01 a.m.
    Actually a PDF file is an open-standard that can be used royalty-free.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Document_Format

    On Monday 18 April 2005 10:33 am, Francis Hwang wrote:
    > On Apr 18, 2005, at 6:59 AM, Jim Andrews wrote:
    > > And PDFs are nice very nice
    > > but please. Adobe just hasn't got the Web or multimedia touch?
    >
    > I don't have much of an opinion on most of this story, since I almost
    > never use any of the tools made by either of these vendors. (Maybe I
    > fire up ImageReady once a week to tweak a web graphic.) But I have to
    > disagree with this: The PDF format is hugely important. Why? Because
    > it's the backbone of imaging on OS X. 2D pictures rendered to the
    > screen on modern Macs are images turned into the PDF format before
    > they're sent to your monitor. And, although a lot of Mac users don't
    > know this, every single document that can be printed can be saved to
    > PDF, too.
    >
    > It's funny, but Apple's move to use PDF may end up making it the
    > standard for its field, in spite of its closed nature. Of course, there
    > are lots of places where PDF is a completely inappropriate choice: It's
    > not so great online or in emails touting your next art opening ... but
    > if you want to publish documents in a way where you can guarantee
    > they'll look and print the same way on another computer, PDF is the way
    > to do it today.
    >
    > Francis Hwang
    > Director of Technology
    > Rhizome.org
    > phone: 212-219-1288x202
    > AIM: francisrhizome
    > + + +
    >
    > +
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    > +
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    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    --
    --

    Robert Spahr
    http://www.robertspahr.com

    On the heath Lear asks Gloucester: "How do you see the world?"
    And Gloucester, who is blind, answers: "I see it feelingly.
  • Pall Thayer | Mon Apr 18th 2005 9:03 a.m.
    > It's funny, but Apple's move to use PDF may end up making it the
    > standard for its field, in spite of its closed nature.

    Closed nature? PDF is an open standard. It's publicly available,
    royalty-free.

    > Francis Hwang
    > Director of Technology
    > Rhizome.org
    > phone: 212-219-1288x202
    > AIM: francisrhizome
    > + + +
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
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    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
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    > +
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    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >

    --
    _______________________________
    Pall Thayer
    artist/teacher
    http://www.this.is/pallit
    http://pallit.lhi.is/panse

    Lorna
    http://www.this.is/lorna
    _______________________________
  • MTAA | Mon Apr 18th 2005 9:34 a.m.
    hi all,

    some of my thoughts, here as well:
    http://www.mteww.com/mtaaRR/news/twhid/geek/
    adobe\_to\_acquire\_macromedia.html

    1. GoLive will GoAway. (will anyone care?)

    2. Hopefully they'll take Illustrator's tools and interface and slap
    Flash's timeline and actionscript onto it. At the very least, we'll get
    beefed-up interoperability between Illustrator and Flash and PDF (which
    would be extremely helpful). This seems like the most hoped for
    development after read /. comments.

    3. Since Adobe was pushing SVG as an alternative to Flash, I wonder if
    they'll keep promoting it? Not that they were doing a particularly good
    job.

    4. Fireworks will go away. (will anyone care?) This application has
    always suffered because of Photoshop's dominance.

    5. Wonder if they'll build any bridges between After Effects and
    Director? Imagine including an After Effects project as a
  • Jess Loseby | Mon Apr 18th 2005 10:16 a.m.
    hello
    >
    > 8. Import Flash animations into After Effects? Holy shit! That would be
    > great.

    not sure if you are being sarcastic (?) but if not, you can do this already btw
    - unless you mean maintaining interactivity which would be cool.

    jess.
  • Pall Thayer | Mon Apr 18th 2005 10:36 a.m.
    I think they should just take all of Macromedias stuff and give it to the
    open-source community. That would be cool. That would make me love adobe.

    On Mon, 18 Apr 2005, Jess Loseby wrote:

    > hello
    > >
    > > 8. Import Flash animations into After Effects? Holy shit! That would be
    > > great.
    >
    > not sure if you are being sarcastic (?) but if not, you can do this already btw
    > - unless you mean maintaining interactivity which would be cool.
    >
    > jess.
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
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    > +
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    --
    Pall Thayer
    artist/teacher
    http://www.this.is/pallit
    http://130.208.220.190/
    http://130.208.220.190/nuharm
    http://130.208.220.190/panse
  • MTAA | Mon Apr 18th 2005 10:38 a.m.
    Hi Jess,

    I didn't know that. So I guess it should be:

    #8 enhance the ability to import Flash animations into After Effects :-)

    On Apr 18, 2005, at 12:16 PM, Jess Loseby wrote:

    > hello
    >>
    >> 8. Import Flash animations into After Effects? Holy shit! That would
    >> be
    >> great.
    >
    > not sure if you are being sarcastic (?) but if not, you can do this
    > already btw
    > - unless you mean maintaining interactivity which would be cool.
    >
    > jess.

    ===
    <twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
    ===
  • Plasma Studii | Mon Apr 18th 2005 11:10 a.m.
    twhid,

    by and large agree, especially just about competition being a good thing.

    (thought i saw you in real life this weekend, in the EV (a wedding at
    ontological for a web techy guy you may even know). but since we've
    never met face to face, wasn't sure. was that you?)

    >1. GoLive will GoAway. (will anyone care?)
    >
    >2. Hopefully they'll take Illustrator's tools and interface and slap
    >Flash's timeline and actionscript onto it. At the very least, we'll
    >get beefed-up interoperability between Illustrator and Flash and PDF
    >(which would be extremely helpful). This seems like the most hoped
    >for development after read /. comments.

    timelines, particularly the one in flash, are like those "ascent of
    man" drawings from ape to homo sapien. people assume they make
    things clear, but are actually totally misleading. those 4
    human-like species came about and died out separately (though yes,
    that IS the approximate chronology). you could just as well replace
    say the neanderthal with a wooly mammoth. but no one thinks of that,
    wouldn't understand/recognize. just like non-linear-ness is an
    essential concept to adopt, in order to move on past "time based"
    notions.

    >
    >3. Since Adobe was pushing SVG as an alternative to Flash, I wonder
    >if they'll keep promoting it? Not that they were doing a
    >particularly good job.
    >
    >4. Fireworks will go away. (will anyone care?) This application has
    >always suffered because of Photoshop's dominance.
    >
    >5. Wonder if they'll build any bridges between After Effects and
    >Director? Imagine including an After Effects project as a 'live
    >object' within Director, that could be cool.
    >
    >6. Nothing will happen to InDesign
    >
    >7. Hopefully they'll build better font support into Flash. Flash's
    >font handling sucks hard.
    >
    >8. Import Flash animations into After Effects? Holy shit! That would be great.

    (twhid: you probably know about this, but for director->imovie->idvd,
    it's really helpful to use a screenshot/QT utility (optionally
    records audio). (when D exports to QT, ignores lingo) doubt it'd
    work without osx (not a prob for you) since PC's suffer from CPU
    overload so easily.)

    >
    >and I'll add:
    >
    >hopefully the GUI in Flash will be fixed because it's dismal now.
    >
    >This is probably not the best thing to happen. Adobe and MM were
    >competing in two key areas: web dev tools (golive and dreamweaver)

    dreamweaver "sucks hard" if you program. generates a mess of
    spaghetti code and then makes the web look like one big drop down
    menu choice. flash and dreamweaver (but NOT director) quietly
    encourage you to do the ordinary, expected, "color in the lines", not
    to experiment with programming much beyond the imagination of some
    bone-headest designer. that brings the average of creativity and
    innovation on the web way way down. and ultimately users come to
    expect a limit.

    > and vector graphics on the web (pdf v. swf). Now that competition
    >will end which is probably not a good thing.

    what ever happened to (MM) fontographer? that was the greatest,
    created fonts in various formats/sizes for a bunch of platforms. is
    there anything equivalent now?
    --

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    PLASMA STUDII
    art non-profit
    stages * galleries * the web
    PO Box 1086
    Cathedral Station
    New York, USA

    (on-line press kit)
    http://plasmastudii.org
  • Rob Myers | Mon Apr 18th 2005 11:32 a.m.
    On 18 Apr 2005, at 16:34, t.whid wrote:

    > 2. Hopefully they'll take Illustrator's tools and interface and slap
    > Flash's timeline and actionscript onto it. At the very least, we'll
    > get beefed-up interoperability between Illustrator and Flash and PDF
    > (which would be extremely helpful). This seems like the most hoped for
    > development after read /. comments.

    Illustrator is my tool of choice for making my art. I'd hate to see it
    encumbered with a timeline and scripting language that I don't need.

    Indeed making an "Office"-bloated app out of Illustrator, Flash and
    whatever else is a bad idea and would alienate Adobe's core print
    business.

    > 3. Since Adobe was pushing SVG as an alternative to Flash, I wonder if
    > they'll keep promoting it? Not that they were doing a particularly
    > good job.

    It's *the* open format for vector graphics. See Inkscape &
    openclipart.org.

    > This is probably not the best thing to happen. Adobe and MM were
    > competing in two key areas: web dev tools (golive and dreamweaver)

    No real competition: MM were winning hands down on the web. So MM will
    complement Adobe's print business with their web business.

    > and vector graphics on the web (pdf v. swf).

    PDF/SVG are like chalk and cheese. Both vector formats, yes, but
    structurally, functionally and experientially very different.

    > Now that competition will end which is probably not a good thing.

    The competition will come from the open source community. Possibly this
    is proprietary design software circling the wagons?

    Adobe developed the imaging model behind PostScript, PDF, SVG, Java 2D
    and MacOS X. From an artistic or philosophical point of view they're a
    fascinating company, they have defined how people have imaged the world
    using 2D software.

    - Rob.
  • MTAA | Mon Apr 18th 2005 12:05 p.m.
    On Apr 18, 2005, at 1:31 PM, Rob Myers wrote:

    > On 18 Apr 2005, at 16:34, t.whid wrote:
    >
    >> 2. Hopefully they'll take Illustrator's tools and interface and slap
    >> Flash's timeline and actionscript onto it. At the very least, we'll
    >> get beefed-up interoperability between Illustrator and Flash and PDF
    >> (which would be extremely helpful). This seems like the most hoped
    >> for development after read /. comments.
    >
    > Illustrator is my tool of choice for making my art. I'd hate to see it
    > encumbered with a timeline and scripting language that I don't need.
    >
    > Indeed making an "Office"-bloated app out of Illustrator, Flash and
    > whatever else is a bad idea and would alienate Adobe's core print
    > business.

    Flash's drawing tools suck. Hard. Ever since I started using flash I've
    hoped for Illustrator's drawing tools married to Flash's animation and
    programming features. This needn't get in the way of print designers;
    it depends on how it's developed. Just update Flash with Illustrator's
    drawing tools and leave Illustrator alone or package it as an
    Illustrator plugin.

    This will be a net plus for Flash, at the very least they'll fix it's
    fucked up GUI.

    >
    >> 3. Since Adobe was pushing SVG as an alternative to Flash, I wonder
    >> if they'll keep promoting it? Not that they were doing a particularly
    >> good job.
    >
    > It's *the* open format for vector graphics. See Inkscape &
    > openclipart.org.

    I'm not dissing SVG. It's profile is still low compared to other vector
    formats which is a big shame. The fact that flash is installed in >90\%
    of browsers really hurts SVG on the web. There is yet to be a browser
    that supports it natively.

    >
    >> This is probably not the best thing to happen. Adobe and MM were
    >> competing in two key areas: web dev tools (golive and dreamweaver)
    >
    > No real competition: MM were winning hands down on the web. So MM will
    > complement Adobe's print business with their web business.

    I don't use either one so I could give a damn, but having Adobe attempt
    to unseat DW was probably a good thing for DW users.

    >
    >> and vector graphics on the web (pdf v. swf).
    >
    > PDF/SVG are like chalk and cheese. Both vector formats, yes, but
    > structurally, functionally and experientially very different.

    MM was attempting to bust into the PDF space with all the printing
    features in Flash, they mostly failed, but the competition was good.
    Now it will be gone.

    >
    >> Now that competition will end which is probably not a good thing.
    >
    > The competition will come from the open source community. Possibly
    > this is proprietary design software circling the wagons?

    Before this takeover, Adobe was competing against MM and OSS, now it's
    just OSS. Net loss. I don't see any major competition coming from OSS
    at this point however. What OSS projects are giving Adobe serious
    competition? the Gimp v. Photoshop? That's laughable (unfortunately, I
    would love a free, decent bitmap tool). Is there even an Illustrator
    equivalent of the Gimp? Or After Effects? At least Adobe is getting
    more competition from Apple these days...

    >
    > Adobe developed the imaging model behind PostScript, PDF, SVG, Java 2D
    > and MacOS X. From an artistic or philosophical point of view they're a
    > fascinating company, they have defined how people have imaged the
    > world using 2D software.
    >
    > - Rob.

    ===
    <twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
    ===
  • Lewis LaCook | Mon Apr 18th 2005 12:13 p.m.
    since the flash player is open now, things like php's
    minglib already enable this to an extent---

    --- Pall Thayer <palli@pallit.lhi.is> wrote:
    >
    > I think they should just take all of Macromedias
    > stuff and give it to the
    > open-source community. That would be cool. That
    > would make me love adobe.
    >
    >
    > On Mon, 18 Apr 2005, Jess Loseby wrote:
    >
    > > hello
    > > >
    > > > 8. Import Flash animations into After Effects?
    > Holy shit! That would be
    > > > great.
    > >
    > > not sure if you are being sarcastic (?) but if
    > not, you can do this already btw
    > > - unless you mean maintaining interactivity which
    > would be cool.
    > >
    > > jess.
    > > +
    > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
    > open to non-members
    > > +
    > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
    > set out in the
    > > Membership Agreement available online at
    > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > >
    >
    > --
    > Pall Thayer
    > artist/teacher
    > http://www.this.is/pallit
    > http://130.208.220.190/
    > http://130.208.220.190/nuharm
    > http://130.208.220.190/panse
    >
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
    > open to non-members
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
    > out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at
    > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >

    ***************************************************************************
    No More Movements...

    Lewis LaCook
    -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/|||

    Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/|||

    XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog->
    http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/

    Collective Writing Projects--> Appendix M
    ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/

    __________________________________
    Do you Yahoo!?
    Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000
    guides!
    http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide

    ***************************************************************************
    No More Movements...

    Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/|||

    Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/|||

    XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/

    Collective Writing Projects--> Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/

    __________________________________
    Do you Yahoo!?
    Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
    http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
  • Pall Thayer | Mon Apr 18th 2005 12:15 p.m.
    Since when is the flash player open?

    On Mon, 18 Apr 2005, I Poop Rainbows wrote:

    > since the flash player is open now, things like php's
    > minglib already enable this to an extent---
    >
    >
    >
    > --- Pall Thayer <palli@pallit.lhi.is> wrote:
    > >
    > > I think they should just take all of Macromedias
    > > stuff and give it to the
    > > open-source community. That would be cool. That
    > > would make me love adobe.
    > >
    > >
    > > On Mon, 18 Apr 2005, Jess Loseby wrote:
    > >
    > > > hello
    > > > >
    > > > > 8. Import Flash animations into After Effects?
    > > Holy shit! That would be
    > > > > great.
    > > >
    > > > not sure if you are being sarcastic (?) but if
    > > not, you can do this already btw
    > > > - unless you mean maintaining interactivity which
    > > would be cool.
    > > >
    > > > jess.
    > > > +
    > > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
    > > open to non-members
    > > > +
    > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
    > > set out in the
    > > > Membership Agreement available online at
    > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > Pall Thayer
    > > artist/teacher
    > > http://www.this.is/pallit
    > > http://130.208.220.190/
    > > http://130.208.220.190/nuharm
    > > http://130.208.220.190/panse
    > >
    > >
    > > +
    > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
    > > open to non-members
    > > +
    > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
    > > out in the
    > > Membership Agreement available online at
    > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > ***************************************************************************
    > No More Movements...
    >
    > Lewis LaCook
    > -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/|||
    >
    > Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/|||
    >
    > XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog->
    > http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/
    >
    > Collective Writing Projects--> Appendix M
    > ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > __________________________________
    > Do you Yahoo!?
    > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000
    > guides!
    > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
    >
    >
    >
    > ***************************************************************************
    > No More Movements...
    >
    > Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/|||
    >
    > Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/|||
    >
    > XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/
    >
    > Collective Writing Projects--> Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > __________________________________
    > Do you Yahoo!?
    > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
    > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
    >

    --
    Pall Thayer
    artist/teacher
    http://www.this.is/pallit
    http://130.208.220.190/
    http://130.208.220.190/nuharm
    http://130.208.220.190/panse
  • Lewis LaCook | Mon Apr 18th 2005 12:37 p.m.
    http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashplayer/productinfo/faq/#item-3-4

    --- Pall Thayer <palli@pallit.lhi.is> wrote:
    >
    > Since when is the flash player open?
    >
    > On Mon, 18 Apr 2005, I Poop Rainbows wrote:
    >
    > > since the flash player is open now, things like
    > php's
    > > minglib already enable this to an extent---
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --- Pall Thayer <palli@pallit.lhi.is> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > I think they should just take all of Macromedias
    > > > stuff and give it to the
    > > > open-source community. That would be cool. That
    > > > would make me love adobe.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > On Mon, 18 Apr 2005, Jess Loseby wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > hello
    > > > > >
    > > > > > 8. Import Flash animations into After
    > Effects?
    > > > Holy shit! That would be
    > > > > > great.
    > > > >
    > > > > not sure if you are being sarcastic (?) but if
    > > > not, you can do this already btw
    > > > > - unless you mean maintaining interactivity
    > which
    > > > would be cool.
    > > > >
    > > > > jess.
    > > > > +
    > > > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site
    > is
    > > > open to non-members
    > > > > +
    > > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the
    > terms
    > > > set out in the
    > > > > Membership Agreement available online at
    > > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Pall Thayer
    > > > artist/teacher
    > > > http://www.this.is/pallit
    > > > http://130.208.220.190/
    > > > http://130.208.220.190/nuharm
    > > > http://130.208.220.190/panse
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > +
    > > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
    > > > open to non-members
    > > > +
    > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
    > set
    > > > out in the
    > > > Membership Agreement available online at
    > > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    ***************************************************************************
    > > No More Movements...
    > >
    > > Lewis LaCook
    > >
    > -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/|||
    > >
    > > Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/|||
    > >
    > > XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog->
    > > http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/
    > >
    > > Collective Writing Projects--> Appendix M
    > > ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > __________________________________
    > > Do you Yahoo!?
    > > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over
    > 17,000
    > > guides!
    > > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    ***************************************************************************
    > > No More Movements...
    > >
    > > Lewis LaCook
    > -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/|||
    > >
    > > Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/|||
    > >
    > > XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog->
    > http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/
    > >
    > > Collective Writing Projects--> Appendix M
    > ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > __________________________________
    > > Do you Yahoo!?
    > > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over
    > 17,000 guides!
    > > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
    > >
    >
    > --
    > Pall Thayer
    > artist/teacher
    > http://www.this.is/pallit
    > http://130.208.220.190/
    > http://130.208.220.190/nuharm
    > http://130.208.220.190/panse
    >
    >
    >

    ***************************************************************************
    No More Movements...

    Lewis LaCook
    -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/|||

    Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/|||

    XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog->
    http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/

    Collective Writing Projects--> Appendix M
    ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/

    __________________________________________________
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
    protection around
    http://mail.yahoo.com

    ***************************************************************************
    No More Movements...

    Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/|||

    Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/|||

    XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/

    Collective Writing Projects--> Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/

    __________________________________
    Do you Yahoo!?
    Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
    http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
  • brandon barr | Mon Apr 18th 2005 12:44 p.m.
    Pall Thayer wrote:

    >
    > Since when is the flash player open?
    >

    As far as i can tell, the SWF format specification is open--that is, it is free from licenses. But the Flash source code isn't--Flash 6 source code development requires SDK licensing.

    More here:
    http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/open/licensing/fileformat/faq.html

    --
    Brandon Barr
    http://texturl.net
  • Francis Hwang | Mon Apr 18th 2005 1:23 p.m.
    Huh. I don't know why I thought PDF was closed, I guess the association
    of Adobe made me just assume. Thanks for the correction.

    Francis Hwang
    Director of Technology
    Rhizome.org
    phone: 212-219-1288x202
    AIM: francisrhizome
    + + +
    On Apr 18, 2005, at 10:57 AM, Robert Spahr wrote:

    > Actually a PDF file is an open-standard that can be used royalty-free.
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Document_Format
    >
    >
    >
    > On Monday 18 April 2005 10:33 am, Francis Hwang wrote:
    >> On Apr 18, 2005, at 6:59 AM, Jim Andrews wrote:
    >>> And PDFs are nice very nice
    >>> but please. Adobe just hasn't got the Web or multimedia touch?
    >>
    >> I don't have much of an opinion on most of this story, since I almost
    >> never use any of the tools made by either of these vendors. (Maybe I
    >> fire up ImageReady once a week to tweak a web graphic.) But I have to
    >> disagree with this: The PDF format is hugely important. Why? Because
    >> it's the backbone of imaging on OS X. 2D pictures rendered to the
    >> screen on modern Macs are images turned into the PDF format before
    >> they're sent to your monitor. And, although a lot of Mac users don't
    >> know this, every single document that can be printed can be saved to
    >> PDF, too.
    >>
    >> It's funny, but Apple's move to use PDF may end up making it the
    >> standard for its field, in spite of its closed nature. Of course,
    >> there
    >> are lots of places where PDF is a completely inappropriate choice:
    >> It's
    >> not so great online or in emails touting your next art opening ... but
    >> if you want to publish documents in a way where you can guarantee
    >> they'll look and print the same way on another computer, PDF is the
    >> way
    >> to do it today.
    >>
    >> Francis Hwang
    >> Director of Technology
    >> Rhizome.org
    >> phone: 212-219-1288x202
    >> AIM: francisrhizome
    >> + + +
    >>
    >> +
    >> -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
    >> +
    >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >> Membership Agreement available online at
    >> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    > --
    > --
    >
    > Robert Spahr
    > http://www.robertspahr.com
    >
    > On the heath Lear asks Gloucester: "How do you see the world?"
    > And Gloucester, who is blind, answers: "I see it feelingly."
    >
  • Pall Thayer | Mon Apr 18th 2005 1:45 p.m.
    hmmm... that looks like a pretty 'closed' open to me. You have to
    'request' a license and if you're planning on including your application
    with a device you have to pay a royalty fee.

    "Macromedia Flash Player SDK is a commercial product"
    http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashplayer_sdk/productinfo/faq/#item-1-1

    On Mon, 18 Apr 2005, I Poop Rainbows wrote:

    > http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashplayer/productinfo/faq/#item-3-4
    >
    >
    > --- Pall Thayer <palli@pallit.lhi.is> wrote:
    > >
    > > Since when is the flash player open?
    > >
    > > On Mon, 18 Apr 2005, I Poop Rainbows wrote:
    > >
    > > > since the flash player is open now, things like
    > > php's
    > > > minglib already enable this to an extent---
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > --- Pall Thayer <palli@pallit.lhi.is> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > I think they should just take all of Macromedias
    > > > > stuff and give it to the
    > > > > open-source community. That would be cool. That
    > > > > would make me love adobe.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > On Mon, 18 Apr 2005, Jess Loseby wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > > hello
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > 8. Import Flash animations into After
    > > Effects?
    > > > > Holy shit! That would be
    > > > > > > great.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > not sure if you are being sarcastic (?) but if
    > > > > not, you can do this already btw
    > > > > > - unless you mean maintaining interactivity
    > > which
    > > > > would be cool.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > jess.
    > > > > > +
    > > > > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > > > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > > > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > > > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site
    > > is
    > > > > open to non-members
    > > > > > +
    > > > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the
    > > terms
    > > > > set out in the
    > > > > > Membership Agreement available online at
    > > > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > Pall Thayer
    > > > > artist/teacher
    > > > > http://www.this.is/pallit
    > > > > http://130.208.220.190/
    > > > > http://130.208.220.190/nuharm
    > > > > http://130.208.220.190/panse
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > +
    > > > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > > > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
    > > > > open to non-members
    > > > > +
    > > > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
    > > set
    > > > > out in the
    > > > > Membership Agreement available online at
    > > > > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > ***************************************************************************
    > > > No More Movements...
    > > >
    > > > Lewis LaCook
    > > >
    > > -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/|||
    > > >
    > > > Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/|||
    > > >
    > > > XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog->
    > > > http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/
    > > >
    > > > Collective Writing Projects--> Appendix M
    > > > ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > __________________________________
    > > > Do you Yahoo!?
    > > > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over
    > > 17,000
    > > > guides!
    > > > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > ***************************************************************************
    > > > No More Movements...
    > > >
    > > > Lewis LaCook
    > > -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/|||
    > > >
    > > > Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/|||
    > > >
    > > > XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog->
    > > http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/
    > > >
    > > > Collective Writing Projects--> Appendix M
    > > ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > __________________________________
    > > > Do you Yahoo!?
    > > > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over
    > > 17,000 guides!
    > > > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
    > > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > Pall Thayer
    > > artist/teacher
    > > http://www.this.is/pallit
    > > http://130.208.220.190/
    > > http://130.208.220.190/nuharm
    > > http://130.208.220.190/panse
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > ***************************************************************************
    > No More Movements...
    >
    > Lewis LaCook
    > -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/|||
    >
    > Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/|||
    >
    > XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog->
    > http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/
    >
    > Collective Writing Projects--> Appendix M
    > ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > __________________________________________________
    > Do You Yahoo!?
    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
    > protection around
    > http://mail.yahoo.com
    >
    >
    >
    > ***************************************************************************
    > No More Movements...
    >
    > Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/|||
    >
    > Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/|||
    >
    > XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/
    >
    > Collective Writing Projects--> Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > __________________________________
    > Do you Yahoo!?
    > Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
    > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >

    --
    Pall Thayer
    artist/teacher
    http://www.this.is/pallit
    http://130.208.220.190/
    http://130.208.220.190/nuharm
    http://130.208.220.190/panse
  • Jess Loseby | Mon Apr 18th 2005 5:35 p.m.
    > I think they should just take all of Macromedias stuff and give it to the
    > open-source community. That would be cool. That would make me love adobe.
    >
    >
    yes, very cool

    *sings tunelessly* dreaming, dream, dream dreeee-am, dreaaamming

    :)
  • Jess Loseby | Mon Apr 18th 2005 5:35 p.m.
    What I'd really like to see is adobe drawing tools in Flash - that'll be nice (and save me
    the "multi-app shuffle" on my desktop)

    Fireworks has sat on my machine for years until recently, funny enough, when I needed
    to convert large vids into gifs for "eating canvas" (yeah, I know you "shouldn't" do that
    but how else do you embed vid into html so you can layer it without a plugin??). All
    trusty photoshop apps rolled over and laughed when trying to render them but fireworks
    managed it. strange.

    Personally, I hate pdfs but that's usually because people try and crash my in-box with
    them.

    jess.

    > I can see things like Freehand folding into Illustrator. Adobe has the ace
    > in Illustrator, there. I'm not aware of an Adobe tool, however, that's
    > comparable to Director--except Flash. But Flash is mainly for Web stuff and
    > interesting as it is, it doesn't have the framerate that you can get in
    > Director.
  • Jess Loseby | Mon Apr 18th 2005 5:38 p.m.
    > I think they should just take all of Macromedias stuff and give it to the
    > open-source community. That would be cool. That would make me love adobe.
    >
    >
    yes, very cool

    *sings tunelessly* dreaming, dream, dream dreeee-am, dreaaamming

    :)
  • Jess Loseby | Mon Apr 18th 2005 5:38 p.m.
    > I think they should just take all of Macromedias stuff and give it to the
    > open-source community. That would be cool. That would make me love adobe.
    >
    >
    yes, very cool

    *sings tunelessly* dreaming, dream, dream dreeee-am, dreaaamming

    :)
  • Jim Andrews | Mon Apr 18th 2005 6:47 p.m.
    They could combine Freehand and Illustrator into 'Frustrator'.

    That's a comment from Tom Rockwell on a Director list. The thread name is
    "Let the doom-thinking commence".

    ja
  • Jim Andrews | Mon Apr 18th 2005 9:16 p.m.
    They probably would not sell Director. It could pose tough competition for
    Flash if a company prepared to really work it got hold of it. They will
    probably not can it and probably not sell it. Instead, they will keep it
    going yet let it languish as Macromedia has. This is Roger Jones's take on
    it. He was quite an interesting voice in that Director history I published
    on the list a while back.

    And of course they will combine Fireworks and Photoshop into Fireshop.

    ja
    http://vispo.com
  • TJ ODonnell | Mon Apr 18th 2005 10:07 p.m.
    It is a sad day for new media and traditional graphic artists.
    Not sure if anyone remembers how lousy Adobe Illustrator used to be until Freehand up'd the anti (and how long GoLive lay dorment while Dreamweaver took the fire out from under Adobe).

    The rivalry was exciting and it pushed both companies to raise the bar, and we benefited from that. I wish Adobe would have just settled their patent dispute with Macromedia instead of "making it go away" through an acquisition!

    Ah well.... another one bites the dust, does anyone remeber how great Aldus used to be (pre-aquisition by Adobe?)

    (grin)
  • Rob Myers | Tue Apr 19th 2005 3:01 a.m.
    Adobe have some very interesting Open Source (BSD :-/) code avalable. It's interesting because it's a constraint-based UI generation system that they've thought through from first principles:

    http://opensource.adobe.com/

    Maybe the code to Director will be there one day. :-)

    - Rob.

    On Tuesday, April 19, 2005, at 00:46AM, Jess Loseby <jess@rssgallery.com> wrote:

    > > I think they should just take all of Macromedias stuff and give it to the
    >> open-source community. That would be cool. That would make me love adobe.
    >>
    >>
    >yes, very cool
    >
    >*sings tunelessly* dreaming, dream, dream dreeee-am, dreaaamming
    >
    >:)
  • MTAA | Tue Apr 19th 2005 7:56 a.m.
    More on this whole deal here:

    http://www.webstandards.org/buzz/archive/2005_04.html#a000516

    This thing really has the web dev world going bezerk...

    little faq from Adobe.. in pdf of course..

    http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/invrelations/pdfs/AdobeMacromediaFAQ.pdf

    ===
    <twhid>http://www.mteww.com</twhid>
    ===
  • Jim Andrews | Tue Apr 19th 2005 11 a.m.
    > More on this whole deal here:
    >
    > http://www.webstandards.org/buzz/archive/2005_04.html#a000516

    Forms. Flash and forms. There's the sort of business it's for. Filling in
    forms. DHTML aspires in that direction also. Not toward the service of art
    but the service of business. That's where the money is: business documents.

    That's 'the enterprise route'. More or less the route of dullness.

    See, that's what I like about the historical trajectory of Director: it just
    never went there. The folks developing it were always more inspired by
    multimedia possibilities than by things like business forms.

    Adobe is quite print-focussed. Nice very nice. That's why they never had any
    "Web magic".

    Now they have Macromedia. A pity, really.

    If Microsoft had got them, it would be a foregone conclusion all their
    products would disappear and become inconsequential because Microsoft simply
    cannot deal with creative products. With Adobe having gotten them, it's a
    bit less clear. But that print-focus and business focus does not bode well.

    ja
    http://vispo.com
  • Lewis LaCook | Tue Apr 19th 2005 12:38 p.m.
    hmmmmm....maybe: less flash-based web art?
    imagine....;-}

    bliss
    l

    --- Jim Andrews <jim@vispo.com> wrote:
    >
    > > More on this whole deal here:
    > >
    > >
    >
    http://www.webstandards.org/buzz/archive/2005_04.html#a000516
    >
    > Forms. Flash and forms. There's the sort of business
    > it's for. Filling in
    > forms. DHTML aspires in that direction also. Not
    > toward the service of art
    > but the service of business. That's where the money
    > is: business documents.
    >
    > That's 'the enterprise route'. More or less the
    > route of dullness.
    >
    > See, that's what I like about the historical
    > trajectory of Director: it just
    > never went there. The folks developing it were
    > always more inspired by
    > multimedia possibilities than by things like
    > business forms.
    >
    > Adobe is quite print-focussed. Nice very nice.
    > That's why they never had any
    > "Web magic".
    >
    > Now they have Macromedia. A pity, really.
    >
    > If Microsoft had got them, it would be a foregone
    > conclusion all their
    > products would disappear and become inconsequential
    > because Microsoft simply
    > cannot deal with creative products. With Adobe
    > having gotten them, it's a
    > bit less clear. But that print-focus and business
    > focus does not bode well.
    >
    > ja
    > http://vispo.com
    >
    >
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    ***************************************************************************
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    Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://www.lewislacook.com/|||

    Web Programmer|||http://www.corporatepa.com/|||

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