(no subject)

Posted by netochka nezvanova | Sat May 18th 2002 1 a.m.

424.i@t - the most beautiful i have felt is you. why +?

_- 0f0003 m2zk!n3nkunzt | | m9ndfukc.com - 424.4romme2u - ...please

424.4romme2u - like 01 teleport [you understand of course

424.ss - my hands are whiter than yours. i utilize simply.simple __... zmk

424. - translates [m9ndlessly]
is it how you kiss +?

- 3 - characters - a character is some one just like you surrounded by other characters
like a string pulled apart + together by love theory [TM].
ilikeu.de because you know how to pull their strings

424.-.- _ mult!.h!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!zzz!!!!!

-.-

-
-
-

o.o
  • netochka nezvanova | Sun May 19th 2002 1 a.m.
    it is not `i` who is born, who is given birth to. `i` will be
    born afterwards, with language, precisely upon leaving
    infancy. my affairs will have been handled and decided
    before i can answer for them - and once and for all: this
    infancy, this body, this unconscious remaining there my
    entire life. when the law comes to me, with the ego and
    language, it is too late, things will have already taken a
    turn. and the turn of the law will not manage to efface the
    first turn, this first touch. aesthetics has to do with this
    first touch: the one who touched me when I was not there.

    lyotard

    http://www.steim.nl/leaves/petalz/spring_moskva_o1.jpg
    http://www.steim.nl/leaves/petalz/spring_moskva_o2.jpg
    http://www.steim.nl/leaves/petalz/spring_moskva_o3.jpg
    http://www.steim.nl/leaves/petalz/moskva.jpg
  • netochka nezvanova | Mon May 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    >>yes but you will get stcuk with that have rotten apple on the back of the
    >>powerbook.
    >>which glows and glows and glows and rots my eyes out in performance.

    kafka smiles a smile knowingly.

    >Gaffers tape. :-)
    >
    > .thomas

    thomas - simply.unconscious

    nn - the body likex 2 rest. the mind likex 2 sleep. so you see communism and kapitalism ...
  • netochka nezvanova | Tue May 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    `will you come away with me?' he said finally to her; but the reed shook her head, she was so
    attached to her home.

    `you have been trifling with me,' he cried, `i am off to the pyramids. good-bye!' and he flew away.

    `my feet are fastened to this pedestal and i cannot move.'

    `dear prince,' said the swallow, `i cannot do that;' and he began to weep.

    `swallow, swallow, little swallow,' said the prince, `do as i command you.'

    When love beckons to you, follow him, though his ways are hard and steep. And when
    his wings enfold you yield to him, though the sword hidden among his pinionsmay
    wound you. And when he speaks to you believe in him, though his voice may shatter
    your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden.

    then the snow came, and after the snow came the frost.

    but at last he knew that he was going to die. he had just strength to fly up to the prince's shoulder
    once more. `good-bye, dear prince!' he murmured, `will you let me kiss your hand?'

    `i am glad that you are going to egypt at last, little swallow,' said the prince, `you have stayed too
    long here; but you must kiss me on the lips, for i love you.'

    [insert hesse++

    For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for your growth
    so is he for your pruning. Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your
    tenderest branches that quiver in the sun, so shall he descend to your roots and
    shake them in their cling to the earth.

    Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself. He threshes you to make you naked.
    He sifts you to free you from your husks. He grinds you to whiteness. He kneads you
    until you are pliant; and then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may
    become sacred bread for God's sacred feast.

    at that moment a curious crack sounded inside

    `as he is no longer beautiful he is no longer
    useful,' said the art professor at the university.
    then they melted the statue in a furnace, and the mayor held a meeting of the corporation to decide
    what was to be done with the metal. `we must have another statue, of course,' he said, `and it shall
    be a statue of myself.'

    `of myself,' said each of the town councillors, and they quarrelled. when i last heard of them they
    were quarrelling still.

    [god glanzez at nn zm!l!ng. -.-

    `what a strange thing!' said the overseer of the workmen at the foundry.

    `this broken lead heart will not melt in the furnace.

    [gleeeeeeeeee

    http://www.yanagisawa.se/collections/f1999/f1999_2.html

    yes, the springtime did need you. many stars
    demanded that you sense them. a wave
    since gone by lifted itself toward you,
    or when you passed a window that was open, a violin
    gave itself up. all this was a change.
    but did you complete it? were you not always
    distracted with expectation, as though this were
    but announcing someone you could love? (where would
    you have concealed her, with those strange heavy thoughts
    going in and out of you, lasting into the night)
    when longing overcomes you, sing of the Lovers; their
    famous feeling is not immortal enough.

    >>> * The Man Who Cracked The Code to Everything

    at that moment a curious crack sounded inside

    >>> Steven Levy talks to Stephen Wolfram, boy genius turned recluse
    >>> turned science renegade, about his new book "A New Kind of Science."

    Kissing the words, remembering your thoughts in my streams...
    rushing away to be your voice, singing your world as
    I krusssssccccch the stones under my waters.

    `you have _chosen'

    -
    -
    -

    /_/
    /
    / i should like to be a human plant
    / __
    __/
    i will shed leaves in the shade
    \_ because i like stepping on bugs

    *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--
    Netochka Nezvanova nezvanova@eusocial.com
    http://www.eusocial.com

    http://www.ggttctttat.com/!
    n r . 5 !!! http://steim.nl/leaves/petalz
    *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- --*--*--*--*--*--*--
    • ironflex | Tue Dec 16th 2008 2:35 p.m.
      I think its a one story but i don't fully understand anywhere i wish you to meet success.
      ------------------------------------------------------------------
      ironflex
      <a href="http://www.drug-intervention.com/tennessee-drug-intervention.html" "rel=dofollow">
      Drug Intervention Tennessee</a>
  • netochka nezvanova | Tue May 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    pnyboer@slambassador.com (peter nyboer) - another expert

    >here's a primer

    translation: konsult a publik library + eat a book shelf.
  • netochka nezvanova | Wed May 22nd 2002 1 a.m.
    >> inside of the castle NN
    >
    >hello, are you looking for a land surveyor.

    mmmda

    the author of `inside of the castle NN` [inside the castle NN every brand is entitled NN -
    something to do with communism ...

    so ... the author of `inside of the castle NN`
    has an excellent memory for the future.

    en fakt one did lokate 2 castles. the 01 other
    couldnt be bothered 2 - 2 appear 2 at times suffices + is much more affordable (these things happen

    nn

    castles - http://www.google.com/search?q=%22zaha+hadid%22
  • netochka nezvanova | Wed May 22nd 2002 1 a.m.
    >i love
    >
    >http://www.superinfinite.com/meuk/nemo.jpg

    ! lv x1
  • netochka nezvanova | Thu May 23rd 2002 1 a.m.
  • Max Herman | Thu May 23rd 2002 1 a.m.
    Subj: <nettime> parliament of things
    Date: 5/23/2002 3:19:30 PM Central Daylight Time
    From: <A HREF="mailto:felix@openflows.org">felix@openflows.org</A>
    To: <A HREF="mailto:nettime-l@bbs.thing.net">nettime-l@bbs.thing.net</A>
    Sent from the Internet (Details)

    [was: <nettime> bartering money digest [hart, holmes]

    > An emphasis on exposing how durable social organisation is constructed
    > might be represented as being subversive

    To stay with Callon/Latour. Their political agenda is a bit complicated.
    They are mostly concerned with how science, and technology, have been
    politizied by being established outside the realm of politics. In other
    words -- and we see that every day -- science is powerful weapon in many
    political disputes precisely because it is understood as being outside of
    it. Politics are about (social) values, science is about (natural) facts.
    Callon/Latour goal is to show the political/ideological nature of this
    distinction.

    On the deepest, and most controversial, level, their argument is
    ontological: there is no fundamental difference between people and things.
    In fact, they are inseparable.

    Now, so far so good. Your average social constructivist/postmodernist will
    agree and argue: science is the same as politics, it's constructed as a
    historically contingent process, shaped by the same forces than any other
    aspect of history. The difference between fact and fiction is not found in
    nature (which remains essentially inaccessible) but in the power games of
    the discourse about it (which is essentially autonomous). This has been
    called "the linguistic turn". Everything is text.

    To break out of the dead end of social constructivism/postmodernism,
    Callon/Latour argue that, yes, science is a social discourse, but a very
    special one. It's special because not only humans speak, but also
    non-humans.

    Say, when Louis Pasteur, 'discovered' the bacteria, he did not simply
    pointed at them, but he shaped them in the most literal sense of the word:
    he gave them a distinct shape to which he could then point. Through a
    series of complex experiments (translations), he made them speak. But
    bacterias are finicky divas. While they cannot speak for themselves, they
    cannot be assigned arbitrary roles (as the postmodernists would have it),
    they have to be enticed to speak. Brute force doesn't help.

    In a complex "negotiation process" -- involving a series of experiments,
    the construction of new laboratory equipment, demonstrations to farmers,
    enrollment of funding agencies, etc -- new identities are shaped: Pasteur,
    the great scientist, on the one side, bacterias which infect cattle and
    which can be controlled through the means of Mr. Pasteur, on the other.

    Only in the end of this process, are the bacterias in a shape so that the
    scientist can call them "out there", because the "out there" as been
    transformed in such a way to make them visible. In other words, the
    division between the social and the natural (or technological) is not the
    beginning of the scientific enterprise, but its end result.

    The problem is that in everyday life, these analytically cleanly separated
    domains (nature, society, technology), are mixed up into all kinds of
    hybrids (just think of a BSE steak lying on your plate). Even though these
    different domains -- and the actors that constitute them -- are mixed into
    one another, politics can only talk about one of them. As a result, in our
    scientifically saturated times, politics have turned into a shell game. The
    real thing is always somewhere else. One side always points to the other
    to negate responsibility.

    What we need now, is a way to bring the other half into the game.
    Analytically, it's by considering how objects constitute society (or how
    people constitute technology), politically, and now things get a bit more
    vague, by creating what Latour calls a "parliament of things", an arena in
    which we can talk about the political constitution of objects, or, in the
    more radical version, a place in which the objects can debate their role in
    the constitution of the social.

    Latour as recently elaborated on this, in his latest book, La politique de
    la nature, but I'm too lazy, I must admit, to read an entire book in
    French, so I have to wait for the translation to come out.

    --------------------++-----
    Les faits sont faits.
    http://felix.openflows.org

    # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
    # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
    # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
    # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body
    # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
  • Max Herman | Thu May 23rd 2002 1 a.m.
  • netochka nezvanova | Wed May 29th 2002 1 a.m.
    >> To fight,..is it not there way to keep us busy ?
    >there's a way to fight that is a kind of joy (i think) : fighting these
    >habits that maintain us busy when all we have to do is flowing (you
    >know...spirals...)

    stalin : ..........

    nn : the scars on all of us create a human passion. ... even granite knows solitude.

    genghis khan : as i walked in the sun, i fell into a grecian mood.
    the body blossoming full in the fragrance of philosophy.
    the perfume of hours distilled in silence; the heavy perfume of mysteries untouched by human fingers.

    ingmar bergman : it is not a question of heroism but of flow.

    story : the room is filled with minds in various stages of pregnancy ...
    covering all things with a mist of smoke, deforming. transforming.

    an : flesh touching flesh generates a perfume, while the friction of words
    generates only pain and division.

    http://www.membank.org/net[ss]daq

    nn - ztdr!!!m!ng [gentl! ___... tzo ur portfol!o ma! grou
  • netochka nezvanova | Thu May 30th 2002 1 a.m.
    >discontiguous discourse.

    Do you cook +?

    >Would this be perhaps to discuss enlisting my efforts in the
    >maintenance

    x:change of fluids +?

    >of a

    ...., once upon time humans could not conceive of the idea of an universe... and then

    I am the utterance of my scream.
    What is [ ] ?

    Humans have achieved higher order consciousness - being conscious of being conscious.

    It isn't sufficient for me. I want every thing.

    each universe is constructed of 2 universes.

    1 2 3 4 5 6
    / / / / / /
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

    each universe is constructed of 2 universes.

    one may continue splitting any given universe indefinitely
    thus obtaining one infinite number of components in
    any bit of matter

    freedom is gained from the fact that not any size scale is intrinsically
    more basik or important or complex than any other size scale.

    one often is pressured into feeling that the concerns of
    the majority are more significant than one's own immediate personal concerns.
    this is based on the fallacious assumption that select sizes are in one absolute sense
    larger than others. it is this assumption which the circular scale undermines.

    NN - firmness _and delight
  • Max Herman | Fri May 31st 2002 1 a.m.
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    #----------------------------------PLEASE
    NOTE---------------------------------##This file is the author's own work and
    represents their interpretation of the ##song. You may only use this file for
    private study, scholarship, or research.
    ##----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    --###From: hamato@odyssee.netDate: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:44:20 -0400Subject:
    free to decide by the cranberries"Free to Decide"by: the cranberriesCD: to
    the faithful departedtabbed by Andrew B. Aaltonen (hamato@odyssee.net)This
    would be a good song if they didn't play it so much...Electric Guitar 1
    (Dolores) - verse and chorus (clean)G C Am

    AmE|--3-3-3--3-3-33--|--0-0-0--0-0-00--|--0-0-0--0-0-00--|--0-0-0--0-0-00--|B|

    --3-3-3--3-3-33--|--1-1-1--0-0-00--|--1-1-1--0-0-00--|--1-1-1--0-0-00--|G|--0-

    0-0--0-0-00--|--0-0-0--0-0-00--|--2-2-2--2-2-22--|--2-2-2--2-2-22--|D|--0-0-0-

    -0-0-00--|--2-2-2--0-0-00--|--2-2-2--0-0-00--|--2-2-2--0-0-00--|A|--2-2-2--0-0

    -00--|--3-3-3--3-3-33--|--0-0-0--0-0-00--|--0-0-0--0-0-00--|E|--3-3-3--3-3-33-

    -|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|Electic Guitar 1
    (Dolores) - solo (mild distortion)G C Am

    AmE|-----------------|---------3-3-55--|--7-7-7--5-5-55--|--7-7-7--5-5-3---|B|

    -------------33--|--5-5-5----------|-----------------|-----------------|G|--4-

    4-4--5-5-----|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|D|--------

    ---------|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|A|------------

    -----|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|E|----------------

    -|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|Electric Guitar 2
    (Noel) - verse and solo (clean), chorus (distortion)G C
    Am
    AmE|--3-3-3--3-3-33--|--0-0-0--0-0-00--|--5-5-5--5-5-55--|--5-5-5--5-5-55--|B|

    --3-3-3--3-3-33--|--0-0-0--0-0-00--|--5-5-5--5-5-55--|--5-5-5--5-5-55--|G|--4-

    4-4--4-4-44--|--7-7-7--7-7-77--|--5-5-5--5-5-55--|--5-5-5--5-5-55--|D|--5-5-5-

    -5-5-55--|--0-0-0--0-0-00--|--7-7-7--7-7-77--|--7-7-7--7-7-77--|A|--5-5-5--5-5

    -55--|--0-0-0--0-0-00--|--7-7-7--7-7-77--|--7-7-7--7-7-77--|E|--3-3-3--3-3-33-

    -|--8-8-8--8-8-88--|--5-5-5--5-5-55--|--5-5-5--5-5-55--|~~~~~~,~~~~~~0's are
    10's(ends on a G chord)hamato@odyssee.netsend your comments/correctionsFrom
    drake@sgl.ists.ca Fri Nov 1 08:24:59 1996Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 14:52:52
    EDTFrom: Drake Hirasawa <drake@sgl.ists.ca>To: OLGA submissions <
    guitar@olga.net>Subject: TAB: Free To Decide by the CranberriesFree To Decide
    - Cranberries-------------->From the CD: To the Faithful DepartedTranscribed
    by: drake@sgl.ists.ca (Drake Hirasawa)Key: GIntro:G C
    Am Am
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ----------1-1-1-0--1--1-1-1-1-3--1--1---0-0-0-0--0--0-0-0-0-0--0--0-2-2-2-2--2

    --2-2-2-2-2--2--2-
    2X--0-0-0-0--0--0-2-2-2-2--2--2-2-2-2-2--2--2-2-2-2-2--2--2---2-2-2-0--2--2-3-

    3-3-3--3--3-0-0-0-0--0--0-0-0-0-0--0--0---3-3-3-3--3--3-----------------------

    --------------------Verse:G C AmIt's not
    worth anything more ....G C AmI'll live as
    I choose or I ...G C/G AmSo return to where you come
    from, return ...G C AmBecause harassment's not my
    ...Chorus:G C/G AmBut I'm free to decide...G C
    AmAnd I'm not so ...G C/G AmI'm free to decide, ...G C
    AmAnd I'm not so ...You must have nothing more ....(chorus)(Bridge:
    Same chords as verse, with some vocal
    wailing)(chorus)Solo:|--------------------------------------------------------

    --------------|-0-0-0-1--3--3-5-5-5-8--8--10-10h12-12-10--12--10-10h12-12-10--

    12--10-|----------------------------------------------------------------------

    |----------------------------------------------------------------------|------

    ----------------------------------------------------------------|-------------

    ---------------------------------------------------------|--------------------

    -------------------------------12-12-12-10--12--10-|-0-0-0-1--3--3-5-5-5-8--8-

    8-10-10h12-12-10--12--10-12-12-12-10--12--10-|--------------------------------

    ---------------------------------------|--------------------------------------

    ---------------------------------|--------------------------------------------

    ---------------------------|--------------------------------------------------

    ---------------------|-12-12-12-10--12--10-|-12-12-12-10--12--10-|------------

    ---------
    4X|---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|---------

    ------------------------------------------12-12-12-10--10--10-10-|-0-0-0-1--3-

    -3-5-5-5-8--8-8-10-10h12-12-10--12--10-12-12-12-10--10--10--0-|---------------

    ---------------------------------------------------------0-|------------------

    --------------------------------------------------------|---------------------

    ----------------------------------
    -------------------|----------------------------------------------------------

    ----------------

    Copyright (c) 2001 by OLGA, Inc.
  • netochka nezvanova | Sat Jun 1st 2002 1 a.m.
    John Hopkins <jhopkins@uiah.fi>

    [m! bra!n uantz m! 2 t!pe tzo !t kan zm!le at !tz zelv

    >back to its beginnings in 1997 - 2000 at
    >many relevant (and
    >irrelevant!) topics were threaded, and even nn / god-emil was there
    >in other configurations (in a more youthful and
    >aggressive/aggrandized form) ;-|

    WRETCH!!!!

    >back to its beginnings in 1997 - 2000 at

    nn hadnt yet understood that most humans are ugly [particularly in the west]
    and it is because they sell love for happiness.

    -
    -
    -

    /_/
    /
    / i should like to be a human plant
    / __
    __/
    i will shed leaves in the shade
    \_ because i like stepping on bugs

    *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--
    Netochka Nezvanova nezvanova@eusocial.com
    http://www.eusocial.com

    http://www.ggttctttat.com/!
    n r . 5 !!! http://steim.nl/leaves/petalz
    *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- --*--*--*--*--*--*--
  • Joachim Blank | Mon Jun 3rd 2002 1 a.m.
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    AAAAAAAE*
  • Max Herman | Sun Jun 9th 2002 1 a.m.
    the sum of all sub-event probabilities is greater than one
  • Muserna Muserna | Sun Jun 9th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    >
    >
    > the sum of all sub-event probabilities is greater than one
    >
    >

    Yikes!#@#&#, does that mean I'm gonna die soon?

    -muserna

    ,_, ,_, ,_, ,_, ,_,
    /| | /| | /| | /| | /| |
    ,__|| |___, ,__|| |___, ,__|| |___, ,__|| |___, ,__|| |___,
    /|___ ___| /|___ ___| /|___ ___| /|___ ___| /|___ ___|
    |/___/| |__/ |/___/| |__/ |/___/| |__/ |/___/| |__/ |/___/| |__/
    || | || | || | || | || |
    || | || | || | || | || |
    || | || | || | || | || |
    || | || | || | || | || |
    v.._.|| |i.v_.v.._.|| |i.v_._v.._.|| |i.v_._v.._.|| |i.v_._v.._.|| |i.v_._
    "Sometimes dead is better." - Pet Semetary
    http://www.mycemetery.com/pet
  • Max Herman | Sun Jun 9th 2002 1 a.m.
    In a message dated 6/9/2002 10:32:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
    muserna@muserna.org writes:

    > > the sum of all sub-event probabilities is greater than one
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Yikes!#@#&#, does that mean I'm gonna die soon?

    Hell if I know what it means, it's Bayesian probability, but I know it's a
    smart-people thing, so therefore I love it like a rabbit's foot with the
    blood still on.

    Relates to Godel too, liebesteorie. It means G2K is riding high on the River
    Euphrates I think.

    Though you may find, from time to time, complication,

    Max Herman
    http://www.bavc.org/html/services/index.html

    ++
  • qwerty | Mon Jun 10th 2002 1 a.m.
    I have an idea to run by you guys (I call both sexes "guys")
    What if ART was a SPORT?! What would happen to the net? What would
    net.art look like?

    I picture people like Michael Jordon or Wayne Gretsky or Muhamed Ali.

    Nobody doubts they were really good. But nobody can exactly say what
    it was that was so good. It certainly wasn't just plain number of
    points scored.

    What if art allowed for that kind of skill? What if not EVERYONE
    could be an artist but you actually had to work at it for years.
    Maybe even talented at ARTIST skills since you were a tiny kid. I'm
    sure I would get ruled out too for any number of reasons but like pro
    ball, tough luck. Not everyone makes the team. But the average fan
    isn't that enraged their voice isn't being represented by the NBA.

    But what if "the team" were a selection of undeniably more
    talented-than-average folks. What if there were actually talents one
    could identify in art? Like being good at dribbling makes a better
    basket ball player. What if being good at something made for a
    better net.artist! (Obviously there is no marble here, but stuff
    like how well can you chisel a portrait? What would be the web
    equivalent?)

    What if there was never even an attempt to look fair, who ends up the
    top draft choice but we can usually be sure most of the picks aren't
    just awful. So we end up with pretty good teams. But probably less
    than 1% of the people who want to be on those teams. I'm sure there
    are street ball players who could whoop MJ any day as I'm sure there
    would he many deserving net.artists would never see the pros.

    Sounds silly and ridiculous. Obviously impossible too. Fine. But
    what would happen?

    Art was competitive. But the internet just made it boom
    exponentially. Shows, residencies, etc. who are used to handling
    less than 100 entries are getting almost 1000. They can't possibly
    choose the top 15 from that. It becomes arbitrary. Most of the
    time, they simply have no choice but to pick their friends. The way
    in concentration camps people were always shmoozing and nepotistic.
    Not because they didn't want some person to do well, but because
    chances were everyone was going to die and they were just doing
    anything they could to keep it from happening to their friends. The
    art world is not too dissimilar.

    judson
    ____________________________

    "I will set out to cheer up
    all the minds of the world."
    - Japanese religious ceremony chant

    Plasma Studii
    art non-profit
    http://plasmastudii.org

    223 e 10 st
    pmb 130
    New York, NY 10003

    my portfolio
    http://judson.judson.net
  • qwerty | Sat Jun 15th 2002 1 a.m.
    If anyone needs to read this, the message will find you, make sure it
    gets read and into the head where ever it's supposed to go. If it
    sounds stupid, just trash it, it was never going to help you. Call
    it either way.

    Here's a trick for you to try: Write down a plan (no typing) on a
    slip of paper. The more explicit, the better. (even a budget and
    schedule help) Store the paper in a box/container that has special
    significance to you (maybe a gift). Put the box (alternatively a
    locket, or container you wear) somewhere where you look/feel
    constantly. At least several hours a day. Spirits will see it and
    help you.

    No matter how impossible you think your situation is, whatever reason
    makes you think it impossibly remote, don't worry. The goal will
    find YOU. But only if you are willing to try ANYTHING wether it
    makes sense or not for the results to stick.

    judson

    http://judson.judson.net
  • Tatsuko Muraoka | Sun Jun 16th 2002 1 a.m.
    Tight cunted auld hoors who like to fuck:

    http://www.kalx.com

    Discuss.
  • netochka nezvanova | Mon Jun 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    >p.s. one more: basically we put the "country name" the
    >work was produced...

    biensur - nato.0+55 was lifed in _ nSk state

    mais ___... i am the future prime minister of

    amicalement. nn

    -
    -
    -

    /_/
    /
    / i should like to be a human plant
    / __
    __/
    i will shed leaves in the shade
    \_ because i like stepping on bugs

    *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--
    Netochka Nezvanova nezvanova@eusocial.com
    http://www.eusocial.com

    http://www.ggttctttat.com/!
    n r . 5 !!! http://steim.nl/leaves/petalz
    *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- --*--*--*--*--*--*--
  • Liza Sabater | Wed Jun 19th 2002 1 a.m.
    At 3:25 PM -0400 19.6.02, Curt Cloninger wrote:
    >If I spraypaint "Nike exploits" on a subway wall, I am subverting
    >the company from without.
    >
    >If I trick Nike into saying "Nike exploits" in their own ad
    >campaigns, if I trick them into using their own marketing money to
    >distribute this slogan, if I trick them into thinking that they are
    >promoting their own brand when in fact they are undermining it -- I
    >am subverting the company from within.

    This is what I call transgression --subversion from within the
    (mythical) structures of power.
  • Plasma Studii | Wed Jun 19th 2002 1 a.m.
    >At 3:25 PM -0400 19.6.02, Curt Cloninger wrote:
    >>If I spraypaint "Nike exploits" on a subway wall, I am subverting
    >>the company from without.
    >>
    >>If I trick Nike into saying "Nike exploits" in their own ad
    >>campaigns, if I trick them into using their own marketing money to
    >>distribute this slogan, if I trick them into thinking that they
    >>are promoting their own brand when in fact they are undermining it
    >>-- I am subverting the company from within.
    >
    >This is what I call transgression --subversion from within the
    >(mythical) structures of power.

    Now, getting Nike to do an add campaign featuring nothing but
    marmalade. That's real transgression if you ask me.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    PLASMA STUDII
    http://plasmastudii.org
    223 E 10th Street
    PMB 130
    New York, NY 10003
  • Plasma Studii | Thu Jun 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    Aug 23, 1936
    Dusseldorf, Germany

    Dear Miss America,

    I do hope you feel better today. But remember this...

    When sad, I often wonder, "what is it that i actually want?" A
    question that nary ends up making the slightest difference in the
    end. The ego is still dead weight, an appendage, a symptom of
    ingesting society. The whole self-ish obsession was invented in
    Europe/US over the recent years. Not a perspective anyone else
    considers. Not the ancient Japanese serfs, Egyptian Royalty/Clergy
    nor distinguished Innuit tribes. On behalf of Western philosophy, I
    apologize for the inconvenience.

    So, maybe I should ask "well then, what is my function in the larger
    scheme of things, that I may perform my given tasks most
    efficiently?" Closer. But this is still like wondering "how do
    flukes (parasites) always find the cows' intestines?" They generally
    bore in through skin to muscle tissue or find the blood stream via
    ingestion. They lay eggs in very specific parts of the anatomy,
    travel to the brain, to shark's eyeballs, etc. but how do they find
    their way around?

    Unlike smells, that guide most terrestrial and aquatic animals toward food,
    by "gradation", the microscopic systems of host organisms are so chaotic,
    things like smell come dense and scarce at random. A predator can
    sense a faint whiff of food source in the distance, moving forward as
    the smell grows stronger, correcting as it weakens. In the enormous
    journey from the mouth to the spleen, there are no reliable
    indicators.

    Unless we change perspective.

    Imagine the flukes have no goal. However, the flukes that end up
    taking a certain path are the ones we have evidence of. The ones
    that take a different path, die and we never hear about them.
    Imagine that with only 2 or 3 minuscule modifications in their
    "swimming" the flukes generally end up visiting the same spots every
    time. They have no "goal", rather a "result" of their behavior.

    It ends up, the intestines create large amounts of bile. When flukes
    come into contact with bile, they start swimming faster. This is how
    they tend to move "upstream" to the circulatory system. Without the
    presence of bile, they resume their normal behavior, thus travelling
    with the bloodstream to the lungs. Surely, you can relate to all of
    this.

    You needn't fret over your destination, rather survival depends on
    subtly perfecting our 2 or 3 reactionary behaviors to the various
    environs we find ourselves in. Oh, and how well we are dressed at
    the time.

    bon chance,
    Dr. HH Spankwell, DDS

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    PLASMA STUDII
    http://plasmastudii.org
    223 E 10th Street
    PMB 130
    New York, NY 10003
  • Plasma Studii | Fri Jun 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    I have a complaint: That ALL complaints are simply the complainers'*
    rigid adherence to one perspective, an inability to adopt contrary
    views. If you see this complaint as hypocritical, than perhaps there
    is also lack of perspective on the part of the reader. If you do not
    see the hypocrisy, there is every reason to complain about folks who
    complain about folks who refuse to acknowledge paradox.

    I have a Caesar salad: That ALL Caesar salads are simply the chefs'*
    rigid adherence to a one menu, an inability to work beyond one page
    in one cook book. If you are served romaine lettuce, than perhaps
    there is also lack of perspective in placing the order. If you are
    not served romaine lettuce, there is every reason to complain that
    you got someone else's lunch.

    I have a nice day sitting outside: That ALL nice days are simply my*
    inability to stay in on a cool, sunny day and get work done, an
    inability to see my monitor outside when there is so much sun. If
    you see that being outside is nice, how are you doing reading this?
    If you don't however, try reading a book.

    I have engine trouble: That ALL mechanical difficulties (no matter
    how metaphorical) are simply results of the owners'* rigid faith in
    their investments, an inability of machines to speak in plain English
    when they have a message to relay. If you can't interpret the
    message, why do you have the machine? If you can, why does it keep
    breaking down?

    I have these words: "all", "interchangeable" and "banana peel", an
    inability of the author*/reader* to substitute one complete thought
    for another without creating. If you see meaning, are the component
    parts arbitrary? If you don't, are the component parts just
    meaningless to begin with?

    * all these words mean essentially the same thing: a person who is
    dissatisfied with the current state in some way, and makes an effort
    to change some element of that state. Though often with no ultimate
    change or improvement. They'll be doing it again next week.

    complainers keep on complaining
    owners keep on buying
    salad spinners keep on turnin (yah yah yah)
    never reach the Higher Ground

    (that verse might have gotten nixed by Stevie Wonder in the studio)

    judson

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    PLASMA STUDII
    http://plasmastudii.org
    223 E 10th Street
    PMB 130
    New York, NY 10003
  • portholeaccel | Mon Jun 24th 2002 1 a.m.
    18 seconds before sunrise - a sigur ros website
    well, here it is...eighteen seconds before sunrise, a sigur ros website. it was set up by paul mcallister, bjorn erlingur floki bjornsson and chris wray in early 2000 with the aim of filling the gap in the web with no sigur ros sites. for more on the story behind the band and the site, check out the 'about' section from the links below. there's also up to date news and tour dates, plus plenty of downloads, media articles and other bits and bobs. enjoy..

    > > > last updated june 24th2002 < < <

    [ flash intro ]

    < home | about | news | tour dates | discography | media | downloads | pictures | trivia | credits >

    < translations | pronunciation | comp | links | chat | vote | guestbook | message board | contact >

    ---------------------------------
    Do You Yahoo!?
    LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
  • Max Herman | Mon Jun 24th 2002 1 a.m.
  • Max Herman | Mon Jun 24th 2002 1 a.m.
    To the true believers, that seems less a threat than the fulfillment of a
    promise. "If we keep our eyes on Israel, we will know about the return of
    Christ," says Oleeta Herrmann, 77, of Xenia, Ohio. "Everything that is
    happening—wars, rumors of war—in the Middle East is happening according to
    Scripture." Herrmann is a member of the End-Time Handmaidens and Servants, a
    group of global missionaries who preach the Gospel with an emphasis on End
    Times teachings. Sept. 11 is proof of her belief that the Second Coming of
    Christ is "closer than it ever has been," Herrmann says.

    http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020701/story4.html
  • netochka nezvanova | Thu Jun 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    >Hi Netochka:

    i know you not. address me in a beautiful + respectful manner
    http://www.m9ndfukc.org/data/noisz/immune.play[tm(just)].mp3

    >Friday, June 21 was the longest day of the year for those of us who live
    >in the Northern Hemisphere.

    it is nice and sunny. you look well. how is your offspring.

    >It was also the day we launched the newly
    >renovated Rhizome.org web site: http://rhizome.org.
    >
    >
    >Woo hoo!

    jankee cucu

    >Check it out, and if you like what you see, please consider making an
    >online gift at http://rhizome.org/support today.

    today is present

    >Your donation will help
    >fund improvements in the coming weeks.

    coming is future

    >Rhizome.org has always been a community-driven organization. Now more

    kap!tal!zm: neu + !mprovd fasc!zm
    komun!t!: neu + !mprovd kap!tal!zm

    >Now more
    >*a new color scheme

    http://www.m9ndfukc.org/data/noisz/half.azleep.mp3
  • netochka nezvanova | Thu Jun 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    >>renovated Rhizome.org web site: http://rhizome.org.
    >
    >http://www.salon.com
    >
    >?

    more zm!lz. ver!!!! goood.

    nn
  • netochka nezvanova | Sun Jun 30th 2002 1 a.m.
    >(Here a part from Amy Wohl's newsletter

    very passionate

    >that, in part,

    in deed

    >deals with the
    >cultural aspects of
    >mobile/cell

    cell

    >phones

    bodies

    >and that Sadie Plant also dealt with
    >in her Motorola study. Please note how much USA mobile phone discourse
    >lacks behind places like Europe, Africa and Asia. Mobile has been a killer
    >app for years outside of the USA. But there is hope. Apparently after 911
    >everyone has got to have a cell phone in the States, including the
    >visionary class or what's left of it. Geert)

    amusant.

    [as every 01 has 01 body]

    nn - delicious solitude

    -
    -
    -

    /_/
    /
    / i should like to be a human plant
    / __
    __/
    i will shed leaves in the shade
    \_ because i like stepping on bugs

    *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--
    Netochka Nezvanova nezvanova@eusocial.com
    http://www.eusocial.com

    http://www.ggttctttat.com/!
    n r . 5 !!! http://steim.nl/leaves/petalz
    *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- --*--*--*--*--*--*--
  • Plasma Studii | Mon Jul 1st 2002 1 a.m.
    More TCPA

    Tolerating Cut-throat Promotional Appeasement
    Testing the Complacency on the Part of the Average
    Terms for Convincing Politicians and Advertisers
    Totally Crummy, Potentially Awful
    Trick Customers into Paying for Accidents
    Tunnel-vision Creators of Pretend Alerts
    Time to Clean the Pockets of the Abundant
    Things are Cool but Particularly Antsy
    Total Con Police Action
    Tattling and Crying about Practically Anything
    Tough Cookies, Pray to Allah

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    PLASMA STUDII
    http://plasmastudii.org
    223 E 10th Street
    PMB 130
    New York, NY 10003
  • Max Herman | Thu Jul 4th 2002 1 a.m.
  • Lewis LaCook | Sat Jul 6th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    Is that the metaphysics?

    perhaps...

    bright pink====ahhh===i chose it for the obscenity////

    yes, this blank frames...something's not seeding right?

    the font::::::i like how the user has to kinda strain to see the word in the first place====

    these comments most appreciated====always grateful for feedback===(& yes, a collected correspondence is in order====now where's that publisher?)
    bliss
    l
    l
    l
    l
    l
    l
  • Max Herman | Tue Jul 9th 2002 1 a.m.
    Subj: <nettime> Tactical media?
    Date: 7/9/2002 2:37:57 AM Central Daylight Time
    From: <A HREF="mailto:keenan@bard.edu">keenan@bard.edu</A>
    To: <A HREF="mailto:nettime-l@bbs.thing.net">nettime-l@bbs.thing.net</A>
    Sent from the Internet (Details)

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41297-2002Jul8.html

    Copyright 2002 The Washington Post Company

    Banned Falun Gong Movement Jammed Chinese Satellite Signal
    By Philip P. Pan
    Washington Post Foreign Service
    Tuesday, July 9, 2002; Page A18

    BEIJING, July 8 -- The banned Falun Gong spiritual movement jammed one of
    China's main television satellites for eight days and briefly beamed a
    video into millions of homes during last month's World Cup soccer finals,
    the government said today.

    The hijacking of the government's Sinosat-1 satellite disrupted TV
    transmissions from June 23 to 30 and scratched plans for a live broadcast
    of a speech by President Jiang Zemin. It was the latest act of defiance by
    a group that has survived a three-year campaign of repression and the most
    sophisticated challenge so far to the Communist Party's control of the
    media.

    Chinese officials said Falun Gong members began bombarding the satellite
    with illegal signals shortly after 7 p.m. on June 23, interrupting
    transmission of nine national channels and 10 provincial stations to rural
    areas without access to regular TV broadcasts. Television screens went
    blank for several minutes, then began playing a Falun Gong video with
    images of followers meditating in a stadium and then a plaza. Officials
    said the video was cut off after only 20 seconds, replaced by a blank
    screen again.

    Chinese officials declined to say how many people were affected, but
    Sinosat-1 is central to a project launched in 1998 to expand TV access to
    the nation's most remote regions. More than 70 million people in 100,000
    villages rely on it, according to the government.

    The government said frequent interference with its broadcasts continued
    until June 30, but offered no other details. A Hong Kong-based human
    rights group reported that Falun Gong managed to transmit its material
    into Chinese homes at least one more time, on June 25, with viewers in
    some parts of China seeing 15 minutes of its propaganda.

    Falun Gong members have interrupted Chinese broadcasts before, hacking
    into cable systems in several cities this year. But taking over a
    satellite signal is much more complicated.

    Countries have jammed satellite transmissions for political reasons, but
    it is unusual for an independent group to do so, and rare if not
    unprecedented for anyone to hijack a satellite signal, said Roger Smith,
    an official with the Geneva-based international organization that
    regulates satellite communications.

    "This is extremely despicable and represents yet another crime committed
    by the Falun Gong cult organization," said Liu Lihua, a top broadcast
    official in the Ministry of Information Industry. "We call on the
    international community to jointly condemn this mean act."

    Liu said the government had evidence implicating "overseas-based Falun
    Gong cult organizations manipulated and directed by Li Hongzhi," the
    leader of the Buddhist-like sect who lives in New York. But Liu declined
    to present the evidence and acknowledged the government was still trying
    to trace the source of the signals.

    Levi Browde, a Falun Gong spokesman, denied Li organized the satellite
    hijacking, and described it as a grass-roots attempt to fight government
    propaganda. "The state-run media is one of the strongest weapons the
    government uses to persecute people and incite hatred," he said. "These
    people are trying to get the truth out."

    Christian Lyngemark, who runs a clearinghouse for technical data on
    satellite channels, said the Falun Gong members appeared to have
    overpowered the government's signal with their own, which would require a
    large satellite dish and expensive equipment.

    He said they must have been transmitting from within China or one of its
    neighbors to reach Sinosat-1, possibly with a mobile apparatus to make it
    more difficult to track them down. As they moved farther from China, he
    said, they would need larger satellite dishes and more powerful equipment.

    =============================================================================

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  • Lew Baldwin | Tue Jul 9th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    It's good to have a dialogue about this here - because it seems
    like many people think it's uncool to talk about it - or it's trendy
    or something. People avoid the subject all together at the space I share. (that's probably why my last post was long-winded...) It's good to share stories.

    It struck a nerve when I read Mirapaul's article stating 'no one had done work relating to the WTC events'. It's like EVERYTHING I've done (and other artists I'm sure...) since then has been effected or in reaction to that day. But not in a formal, clear concise package. Read between the lines..

    I found the sketch of ideas for the WTC proposal. This was
    written August 26, 2001. It's almost scary to read - very weird...
    and identical to what history has produced. Thought I would include for posterity.

    "Finding myself now in New York City, after having embarked on several new technical and visual paths
  • Lew Baldwin | Tue Jul 9th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    Also It just hit me what this is partially about - just days after Sept. 11 I flew to Venezuela and installed a version of the textwall (milkmilklemonade.net) for a conference.

    I wrote Matt Mirapaul an email - stating that this was an important work at this time - to give a voice to people - and it being installed in another country made it even more special = Less biassed opinion. I wanted some press on this. I felt like a messenger from the inceneration zone (NYC / WTC) - like I had escaped from the US to build this temporary forum for insight into what had happened or was happening. It took alot for me to get on the plane and do this.

    Well I never heard much back from Mirapaul - and I guess
    some of the old art practices are still in place... an artist can't go through the press directly - they must be fed through a credible source first (?).. or possibly given a story-line so blatantly obvious - it's easy to expand on and write about.

    I didn't post it to rhizome (I guess I didn't know the 'rules ..)... so only the people that participated and spoke of Sept. 11, War, God etc. - knew about it.

    Here is an excerpt of some of the dialogue from Caracas, Venezuela on Sept. 28, 2001.

    i am tires of the people that have god
    at their side.////=.........we share the same space, you and
    me....////=chaves payaso triste////=For get me not////=SO YOU THINK WE
    NEED THE DEVIL?////=////=WHAT IS WRONG WITH GOD? ////=si no hay trabajo,
    me quedo con la salsa y la playa!////=////=////=So is Bush////=I am tired
    of the violence, we need non-selfish peace, not ignorance...////=It is not
    God
  • Plasma Studii | Fri Jul 12th 2002 1 a.m.
    > 4,000 dead people

    ok, not arguing about that though. it's the ratio of that 4,000 to
    the population of ny. That's what makes this situation significantly
    different from tragedies elsewhere. On one hand, there are folks
    (like you and me) who saw what happened practically down the street.
    But how few of us have any more connection than someone across the
    globe.

    there certainly must have been a person killed with a sibling in
    Idaho. I would say that sibling had a much more immediate impact
    than most of us (not necessarily a more "genuine" or better response,
    but more tangental events to deal with) We may feel terribly upset.
    But there are also folks in Nebraska who feel just as upset. i agree
    that folks can feel sympathy for what happened, but not more or less
    sympathy based on their geographical proximity.

    In fact, the PERCENTAGE of directly effected folks is unprecedentedly
    low compared to the number of folks upset. I don't know offhand, but
    this may be the only time it's ever happened in history. Usually the
    numbers are MUCH MUCH closer. Where else could a person use a word
    like "unmediated" in describing what they felt. I don't doubt the
    honesty of those feelings. But "unmediated" is a word to signal
    intellectualizing. Who has a major disaster happen down the street
    and approaches it intellectually? We get to. It's not that it's an
    evil thing, but it sure is different.

    But (and back to the old original question) Eryk may not have been in
    town, but his view is not so dissimilar as if he was. Or anyone in
    the world for that matter. I got a far better view of the crash from
    a video twhid posted. My view was probably not that dissimilar to
    somebody's in . Though what we went on to do with that view would
    differ with our cultures.

    I had a strong impact seeing the line to the bathroom at Veselka's
    (probably the only restaurant that stayed open that day). Everyone
    was nervous. But that's a personal anecdote. and i don't doubt for
    a moment people all around the world had such personal defining
    moments. They aren't limited to this island.

    judson

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    PLASMA STUDII
    http://plasmastudii.org
    223 E 10th Street
    PMB 130
    New York, NY 10003
  • | Sat Jul 13th 2002 1 a.m.
    <html>
    <div align="center">&quot;
    <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=lo_y" eudora="autourl">www.google.com/search?q=lo_y</a>
    &quot;<br><br>
    <br><br>
    <img src="cid:5.1.0.14.0.20020713224813.00ac0ec0@logosfoundation.org.0" width79 height40 alt="9a2a45.jpg"><br><br>
    <br><br>
    <br><br>
    <br><br>
    <br>
    ( &quot; <a href="http://www.netartcertificationoffice.net/stamps.htm" eudora="autourl">http://www.netartcertificationoffice.net/stamps.htm</a> &quot; )<br><br>
    <br><br>
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    <br><br>
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    ------------------------------------------------------------<br>
    --------------lo--------------------------------------------<br>
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -<br>
    -----------------------y------------------------------------<br>
    ------------------------------------------------------------ <br>
    -------------PTRz: <br>
    <a href="http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/gallery.cfm" eudora="autourl">http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/gallery.cfm</a><br>
    <a href="http://www.krikri.be/poeuk.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.krikri.be/poeuk.html</a><br>
    <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=lo_y" eudora="autourl">http://www.google.com/search?q=lo_y</a><br>
    ------------------------------------------------------------ <br>
    ------------------------------------------------------------ <br>
    </html>
  • | Sat Jul 13th 2002 1 a.m.
    <html>
    <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><br><br>
    <div align="center">&quot;
    <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=lo_y" eudora="autourl">www.google.com/search?q=lo_y</a>
    &quot; <br>
    is now certified by the Net.Art Certification Office<br><br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <img src="cid:5.1.0.14.0.20020713231527.01e597a0@pop.myrealbox.com.0" width6 height3 alt="afd928.jpg"><br><br>
    <br><br>
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    ( &quot; <a href="http://www.netartcertificationoffice.net/stamps.htm" eudora="autourl">http://www.netartcertificationoffice.net/stamps.htm</a> &quot; )<br><br>
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    <br><br>
    <br><br>
    <br>
    </blockquote>
    <x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
    </div>
    ------------------------------------------------------------<br>
    --------------lo--------------------------------------------<br>
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -<br>
    -----------------------y------------------------------------<br>
    ------------------------------------------------------------ <br>
    -------------PTRz: <br>
    <a href="http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/gallery.cfm" eudora="autourl">http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/gallery.cfm</a><br>
    <a href="http://www.krikri.be/poeuk.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.krikri.be/poeuk.html</a><br>
    <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=lo_y" eudora="autourl">http://www.google.com/search?q=lo_y</a><br>
    ------------------------------------------------------------ <br>
    ------------------------------------------------------------ <br>
    </html>
  • Max Herman | Sun Jul 14th 2002 1 a.m.
  • Max Herman | Sun Jul 14th 2002 1 a.m.
  • Max Herman | Mon Jul 15th 2002 1 a.m.
    Subj: <nettime> Rejecting Prada is about art, not design
    Date: 7/14/2002 8:20:19 AM Central Daylight Time
    From: <A HREF="mailto:calin@euronet.nl">calin@euronet.nl</A>
    To: <A HREF="mailto:nettime-l@bbs.thing.net">nettime-l@bbs.thing.net</A>
    Sent from the Internet (Details)

    I recently heard a journalist say: "we are -- by definition -- AGAINST".
    I think that this type of statement applies to art as well.

    Therefore whenever art was confined in narcissistic attitudes of self-
    contemplation (lately in the 80s), it has been necessary to act AGAINST that;

    and looking over to what was appealing to the masses -- design products,
    advertisement, club culture -- packaging in a word, was thought to be a
    solution.

    Now, when every event of any social surface is closing with a VJ/DJ party,
    and
    when art events are quite a lot about lounging, fashion parades and food
    catering -- it is time to be AGAINST, de nouveau.

    The ideological radicalism claimed by those consumer-disguised events is not
    enough to make them stay, precisely because this type of critique didn't
    manage
    to do much more than blurr further the lines between free creativity and
    commercially enrolled promotion. Even if just for clearing the air, art
    should
    be AGAINST.

    And that's not gonna happen if we are still trying to learn from the Pradas.
    We
    are in 2002, remember? Learning from brands is passe, it's from the previous
    century. Even some designers realised that, playing down their product
    oriented
    identity and focusing more on the performance character of their work, on its

    autonomy.

    Problem with the students is -- in deed -- that they find it more
    appealing to dive into technological issues (an area unanimously supported by

    the society which they learn to serve), than to do autonomous research, which

    requires a type of knoledge that low-to-high education seems to avoid
    systematically -- history, theory, general cultural information.

    # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
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    # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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  • Max Herman | Wed Jul 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    Hollywood

    I've got a picture in my head (in my head)
    It's me and you , we are in bed (we are in bed)
    You'll always be there when I call (when I call)
    You'll always be there most of all. (all, all, all)

    This is not Hollywood,
    Like I understood.
    This is not Hollywood,
    Like, Like, Like.

    This is not Hollywood,
    Like I understood.
    This is not Hollywood,
    Like, Like, Like.

    Away, Runaway, is there anybody there?
    Away, Runaway, is there anybody there?
    Get away, Get away, Get away!
    Get away, Get away, Get away!

    I've got a picture in my room, (in my room)
    I will return there I presume. (should be soon)
    The greatest irony of all, (shoot the wall)
    It's not so glamorous at all (all, all, all)

    This is not Hollywood,
    Like I understood.
    This is not Hollywood,
    Like, Like, Like.

    This is not Hollywood,
    Like I understood.
    This is not Hollywood,
    Like, Like, Like.

    Away, Runaway, is there anybody there?
    Away, Runaway, is there anybody there?
    Get away, Get away, Get away!
    Get away, Get away, Get away!

    This is not Hollywood
    (Runaway)
    This is not Hollywood
  • Plasma Studii | Wed Jul 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    >Mary (speaking for the Getty, I presume),
    >
    >Lay off Curt. He doesn't have your pictures. (maybe in response we
    >should ALL link to pics at the Getty site). He's even answered very
    >nicely about it.
    >
    >The fact that you are going after him at all, demonstrates a gross
    >ignorance about the web. But it's a totally common ignorance in
    >corporate-type institutions. No big deal, but the old assumptions
    >about "propriety" aren't at all meaningful with the way the web
    >works. Stubborn traditionalists are still trying though.
    >
    >Basically, the way browsers work, is that once a picture is visible,
    >EVERYONE gets a copy. Most of us just don't happen to save them.
    >In this case, Curt obviously didn't. So, this is squeezing blood
    >from a turnip. Your machine, your browser and your internet
    >connection are working together to put "your" image on the screen.
    >Curt doesn't have it. I don't know who does (probably thousands
    >daily), but it could just as easily be a link to you.
    >
    >If it's simply that you don't want pictures copied in general
    >though, that's your own responsibility. (what do you want to be on
    >the web for? Or does anyone really know there?) just don't upload
    >them. That's all there is to it.
    >
    >He's not taking away a cent from you anyway and not making a cent
    >from work you own, so this is trivial.
    >
    >Judson

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    PLASMA STUDII
    http://plasmastudii.org
    223 E 10th Street
    PMB 130
    New York, NY 10003
  • joseph mcelroy | Wed Jul 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    Curt,

    Find a foreign ISP to host the page. I know a few good ones. Do it under a
    corporate name. If they sue the corporation, just fold it and start another.
    I am not sure about all the legal stuff, but use the corporate system to your
    advantage. They pick on you because it is easy to make an example, lets make
    it hard and expensive and a pain in the ass. I know some lawyers who will
    work on some of this for free.

    Mary, you opened a real bad can.

    --
    Joseph Franklyn McElroy
    Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist]
  • Max Herman | Wed Jul 17th 2002 1 a.m.
  • Max Herman | Wed Jul 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    In a message dated 7/17/2002 8:50:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
    joseph@electrichands.com writes:

    > They pick on you because it is easy to make an example,

    JD Fuckin Rockefeller did. Not this time kind compliance man, here comes the
    firehose. Here comes the Duke.

    lets make
    >
    > it hard and expensive and a pain in the ass.

    I'd prefer we allow a million meters of shit to kill the entire human art
    faculty, ushering in a dystopia far more likely than some customers may know.

    If you want to see some of my shit online, go check out

    http://www.geocities.com/genius-2000/getty.JPG
  • Max Herman | Wed Jul 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    In a message dated 7/17/2002 8:50:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
    joseph@electrichands.com writes:

    > Mary, you opened a real bad can.

    Well, I'd prefer to call it "the" real bad can! And me an art lover too.

    No offense.

    Max Herman
    genius2000.net
    Buckhouse Johnycakes Two Bits A Stack

    ++
  • Max Herman | Wed Jul 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    In a message dated 7/17/2002 8:50:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
    joseph@electrichands.com writes:

    > Mary, you opened a real bad can.

    Sometimes you just gotta bite back. Ain't no option. Apra Cadapra.

    www.geocities.com/genius-2000/getty.JPG
  • Max Herman | Thu Jul 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    In a message dated 7/17/2002 10:11:43 PM Central Daylight Time,
    Nmherman@aol.com writes:

    > Sometimes you just gotta bite back. Ain't no option. Apra Cadapra.
    >
    > www.geocities.com/genius-2000/getty.JPG

    My reference here is not to human dung, but to the Frank Capra classic "It's
    a Wonderful Life," in which the workers band together in a home savings and
    loan while pursued hotly by old man Potter....

    I.e., "Apra De Frank Cabra," a magic word or auto refinishing shop.

    Shop.

    Max Herman
    genius2000.net

    ++
  • Max Herman | Thu Jul 18th 2002 1 a.m.
  • Max Herman | Thu Jul 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    Subj: Doctor Salemi's Obituary... (fwd)
    Date: 7/18/2002 5:45:42 AM Central Daylight Time
    From: <A HREF="mailto:cosmoetica@att.net">cosmoetica@att.net</A>
    To: <A HREF="mailto:cosmoetica@att.net">cosmoetica@att.net</A>
    Sent from the Internet (Details)

    ----------------- Forwarded Message: ----------------
    From: Gilbert purdy <gwpurdy@yahoo.com>
    To: Dan Schneider <cosmoetica@att.net>
    Subject: Doctor Salemi's Obituary...
    Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:00:43 -0700 (PDT)

    Gilbert Wesley Purdy's essay, "Doctor Salemi's
    Obituary and the Consumption of Poetry"
    (http://www.cosmoetica.com/D27-GWP1.htm), has just
    appeared in the "Seek and Destroy" pages of the online
    journal Cosmoetica (http://www.cosmoetica.com).
    Cosmoetica -- a rough-and-ready literary journal -- is
    published by Dan Schneider, poete furieux. William
    Heyen, Frederick Turner, Dan Masterson and George
    Dickerson are among the intrepid souls to publish in
    the pages of this journal which is proud to excoriate
    sophistry wherever it finds it -- and manages to
    publish fine work by Schneider and his guests, at the
    same time.

    Links to a selection of other essays/reviews by
    Mr. Purdy are provided below:

    Het nieuve wereldbeeld: the Magical world of Guy
    Davenport:

    http://www.elimae.com/essays/purdy/wereldbeeld.html

    The Enigma of W. D. Snodgrass:

    http://www.elimae.com/essays/purdy/snodgrass.html

    The Poet's Progress: the Collected Poems of Eldon
    Grier:

    http://www.danforthreview.com/reviews/poetry/grier.htm

    Sex Trek: The New Generation:

    http://www.danforthreview.com/reviews/nonfiction/sex_trek.htm

    --
    Dan Schneider, cosmoetica@att.net
    www.Cosmoetica.com : The Best in
    Poetica seeks great poems & essays!
  • Max Herman | Thu Jul 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    By LARRY MARGASAK
    .c The Associated Press

    ALEXANDRIA, Va. (July 18) - Zacarias Moussaoui, the only person charged as a
    Sept. 11 conspirator, attempted to plead guilty Thursday to new federal
    charges that could bring him the death penalty. But the judge - in a rare
    bench ruling - insisted he take a week to think about it.

    ''I am a member of al-Qaida'' pledged to Osama bin Laden, Moussaoui told U.S.
    District Judge Leonie Brinkema, who moments earlier had entered an innocent
    plea on his behalf to a third indictment. Shortly after that, Moussaoui tried
    to plead guilty.

    After an arraignment in which Moussaoui often sparred with the judge,
    Brinkema insisted that Moussaoui think about his decision for a week. She
    scheduled a hearing for next Thursday.

    ''I don't need,'' Moussaoui said in response. ''I've been thinking about it
    for months.''

    Moussaoui said, however, he wanted to fight the government's attempt to have
    him executed. The penalty phase normally would come after a guilty plea or
    conviction in a trial.

    After Moussaoui mentioned bin Laden and ignored Brinkema's attempts to get
    him to stop talking, the judge said she would ask federal marshals to remove
    him from the courtroom. Moussaoui then raised both hands in a defensive
    position, and it never became necessary for the marshals to act.

    The arraignment had been scheduled after the government on Tuesday obtained a
    third indictment against Moussaoui following a new Supreme Court ruling on
    the death penalty. The new indictment added allegations that would enable the
    government to seek the death penalty.

    Charges were initially filed against him in December. In June, prosecutors
    dropped references to Moussaoui's interest in crop-dusting aircraft.

    Moussaoui last December told Brinkema he had no plea and the judge entered a
    plea of innocent. After the June revision in the indictment, Moussaoui tried
    to plead ''no contest,'' but Brinkema again entered an innocent plea after
    explaining the term was the equivalent of pleading guilty.

    The notion of a defendant representing himself and then pleading guilty is
    highly unusual. Defendants representing themselves usually do so because they
    do not trust outside lawyers or cannot get one to take the case.

    Guilty pleas often work to a defendant's advantage, especially in cases where
    the death penalty is a possibility. A carefully negotiated guilty plea can
    take that possibility off the table. But there was no indication that
    Moussaoui has been negotiating with the government.

    Moussaoui is the only individual charged in connection with the attacks. The
    original indictment accused him of plotting with the 19 hijackers and
    mimicking their conduct, including enrollment in flight schools. While
    government officials believe he was planning to be the 20th hijacker,
    Moussaoui was in custody on Sept. 11 on immigration violations.

    Moussaoui at first tried to enter what he called ''a pure plea'' on Thursday.
    He said such a plea would enable him to make specific statements regarding
    his participation in a known terrorist group since 1995.

    When Brinkema said he was confused, Moussaoui responded, ''I'm not confused,
    thank you.''

    The judge then told him his only choices were: guilty, not guilty, or no
    contest, and she had ruled out the latter in a previous hearing.

    Moussaoui told the judge, ''I don't have to take advice from you.''

    Brinkema then said, ''I am therefore entering a not guilty plea on your
    behalf.''

    Moussaoui responded that he was pleading guilty and the judge replied that
    she would give him a week to reconsider.

    Moussaoui, who is acting as his own lawyer, sat alone in the middle of three
    seats at the defense table. And when he stood to speak at the lectern, facing
    the judge, two marshals stood directly in back of him and two others stood
    just a few feet away.

    After entering the innocent plea on his behalf, Brinkema asked Moussaoui if
    he wanted her to set a new trial date to give him more time to prepare. Jury
    selection now is set to begin for Sept. 30.

    Moussaoui said he wanted time to think about it, and the judge suggested that
    he should consult with court-appointed lawyers who remain in the case despite
    the judge's decision to let him represent himself.

    ''I don't have to consult with people who want to undermine my defense,''
    said Moussaoui, who has accused the court-appointed lawyers of seeking to
    have him executed.

    He told the judge, ''Stop this nonsense game you are playing here. I don't
    have to take advice from you regarding the way I defend myself.''

    When the judge started to tell Moussaoui, ''All right,'' he told her in a
    mocking tone, ''Everything is all right. This is not justice.''

    When she then told him to sit down, he mockingly said, ''Yes, yes have a
    seat.''

    Shortly afterward, when the judge asked whether any attorney had additional
    issues to raise, Moussaoui put his hand up and said, ''Yes.''

    ''I want to plead today guilty because I want to save my life,'' Moussaoui
    said, adding as he has in numerous motions that he knows who committed the
    September attacks. He said the guilty plea would allow him to tell what he
    knows.

    Brinkema warned him that if she accepted his guilty plea it could not be
    reversed. She then insisted over his objections that he think about it for a
    week.

    The judge told Moussaoui that he could negotiate with the government a plea
    agreement that could avoid the death penalty. But she said she would have no
    role in those negotiations.

    AP-NY-07-18-02 1611EDT

    Copyright 2002 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news
    report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed
    without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active
    hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
  • Max Herman | Sat Jul 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Ten trading days, 1,360 points off the Dow. Let's
    start calling the "sell off" what it is. Let's call it a panic. Let's call it
    a crash.

    http://money.cnn.com/2002/07/19/news/crash2002/index.htm
  • | Sun Jul 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    SO YOUR HEART
    Lydia Lunch

    SO, YOUR HEART MAY NOT BE BROKEN, WE CAN ONLY HOPE FOR THE WORST.
    YOU JUST CAN'T KEEP FROM REPEATING, HAND TO HAND, HEART TO HEART
    BREAK ALWAYS IN THE DARK... AND ALWAYS SO MUCH LESS SPECIAL THAN THE REST

    TOO MANY LIPS TO WEEP A SAD AND SEAMY SIDE TO THE SAME OLD STORYLINE. THE
    BITTER WINDS OF THE LAST WORD SO STALE AND SO DIMLY DIM...

    WE COULD HAVE ONE HELLUVA TIME WHILE GOD, HE JUST LOOKS AWAY...
    BUT THERE'S GUM IN THE CHAIRS THAT DANCE IN MY HEAD & NOW CAN THIS BE NEW
    AGAIN...

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------lo--------------------------------------------
    -
    -----------------------y------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------PTRz:
    http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/gallery.cfm
    http://www.krikri.be/poeuk.html
    http://www.google.com/search?q=lo_y
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------------
  • Max Herman | Mon Jul 22nd 2002 1 a.m.
    from counterpunch

    Dithering Democrats
    The November forecast looks gloomy.
    By Doug Ireland

    Gore Vidal's dictum--"America has elections instead of politics"--has
    never been more true. As the bipartisan duopoly slouches toward November,
    the electorate appears by every measure to be deeply uninterested in the
    choices before it.

    Just look at the record low participation in the 16 states that held
    primaries this spring. On average, only 16.2 percent of eligible voters
    bothered to go to the polls, a drop from the 1998 midterm elections (17.6
    percent) and less than half the high-point primary participation in 1966.
    Nine of the states with early primaries this year reported the lowest
    turnouts ever. "No one should have expected that the events of September
    11 would have increased political participation," says Curtis Gans,
    director of the Committee for the Study of the American Electorate. "What
    the citizenry was asked to do was to return to normalcy, consume material
    goods and invest in the stock market--hardly clarion calls to civic
    involvement. The only exhortation was for an increase in
    voluntarism--which tends to be a noblesse oblige, apolitical act."

    The dreadful primary turnouts presage a low vote in November--and that's
    bad news for Democrats, who traditionally do better the higher the
    turnout. Worse, the highly regarded bipartisan "Battleground" poll,
    conducted by Democrat Celinda Lake and Republican Ed Goeas, not only
    confirms the lack of voter enthusiasm for the elections, but, in a survey
    released June 26, shows that Republican voters appear to be more motivated
    than Democratic ones. And there's little interest in the fall elections
    among two key Democratic constituencies: African-Americans and unmarried
    women. Lake calls it "the Bush effect--Republicans are more intense than
    Democrats."

    Moreover, Republicans are making serious inroads among Latinos: Democratic
    pollster Sergio Bendixen's survey of Latino voters for the center-right
    New Democrat Network showed that 40 percent would be more likely to
    support a candidate endorsed by George Bush (who, Bendixen told the
    Washington Post, "has developed a warm rapport with Hispanics similar to
    the bond that Bill Clinton enjoyed with African-Americans"). And Bush's
    sharp tilt toward the murderous Ariel Sharon has driven many Jewish voters
    into the arms of the Republicans. Even a chunk of the gay vote is slipping
    away from the Democrats: The GOP got a third of it for Congress in 2000,
    according to exit polls of self-identified gays, and the opportunists who
    run the Human Rights Campaign--the nation's wealthiest and most visible
    gay lobby--have distributed endorsements to a raft of GOP congressional
    candidates this year.

    Despite the jingoistic mood in the country, Americans are beginning to
    understand that Bush's war on terrorism isn't working: A CNN/Gallup poll
    released July 10 reveals only 39 percent believe that the United States is
    winning the war on terrorism, while 43 percent say "neither" side is
    winning. But Bush is even more of a Teflon president than Ronald Reagan
    was--nothing seems to stick to him. That same poll showed 71 percent
    continue to approve of Bush's conduct of international affairs, and Bush's
    overall positive approval rating with three--quarters of the voters has
    remained pretty steady for the past several months in every major opinion
    survey.

    Cowed by these numbers, Democrats have failed to exploit the openings that
    current events have given them. Afghanistan has returned to rampant
    warlordism, factional assassinations and drug dealing--the same conditions
    that gave rise to the Taliban in the first place. CIA footpad Hamid
    Karzai's interim government was "elected" by an unrepresentative loya
    jirga marked by widespread intimidation and death threats (and then
    immediately abolished the Ministry for Women's Affairs--belying the Bush
    argument that the war was fought for the emancipation of women). Not a
    single al-Qaeda cell or mole has been unearthed here by U.S. intelligence
    services, despite Bush's shredding of our civil liberties.

    Al Gore finally emerged from hibernation, shaved his beard, and delivered
    a speech that was widely reported as a major attack on Bush. But on closer
    examination, Gore only made the rather common-sense observation that Bush
    had failed to capture Osama bin Laden, without ever dissecting the reasons
    for that failure. Dick Gephardt has given Bush a blank check to invade
    Iraq, as have Democratic presidential candidates Joe Lieberman and the
    "liberal" John Kerry. Some Democrats, like Georgia Sen. Max Cleland, are
    running TV spots featuring pictures of themselves with Bush. The campaign
    of Missouri's Jean Carnahan boasts that she votes with Bush 71 percent of
    the time. And the Democrats' Texas Senate candidate, Ron Kirk, is
    promising that "more times than not ... I'll be supportive of the
    president."

    Even more glaring and indefensible has been the way Democrats have blown
    the opportunity to make serious political capital out of the corporate
    scandals. From the moment Enron imploded, the Democrats should have made
    it a central theme of the congressional campaign. But they failed to do so
    because there were too many Democrats in both houses who also had accepted
    piles of campaign cash from Ken Lay and his corporate crooks. If you set
    aside the $2 million Enron gave in the 2000 presidential campaign, when
    Lay and his cronies tilted heavily to Bush, the remaining $4 million given
    by the conglomerate to federal candidates since 1989 was almost evenly
    divided between Democrats and Republicans. Democrats also raked in boodle
    from Enron co-conspirator Arthur Andersen: More than half the House and 94
    of 100 Senators took Andersen money in the past decade.

    The same is true of WorldCom, which since 1989 has given $7.6 million in
    soft money, PAC and individual contributions "spread evenly between the
    two national parties," according to the Center for Responsive Politics. In
    just the 2001-2002 period alone, WorldCom gave more than $1 million, split
    equally between Democrats and Republicans. Global Crossing played the same
    game: 55 percent of its $3.5 million since 1999 went to Democrats, 45
    percent to the GOP. Terry McAuliffe, the bagman who chairs the DNC, got to
    buy pre-IPO shares in the company at an insider's price of $100,000--and
    resold them before the company collapsed for an $18 million profit.

    In 2000, Democrats also helped scuttle the proposal by then SEC Chairman
    Arthur Levitt to ban accountants from simultaneously acting as consultants
    to the same firms they audited--this would have closed the loophole that
    motored Andersen's participation in the Enron crimes. And, of course, the
    accounting industry's puissant lobby--the American Institute of Certified
    Public Accountants (AICPA)--gave more than $8.5 million between 1989 and
    2001, almost evenly divided between Democrats and Republicans.

    Indeed, of the 46 members of Congress who wrote letters to the SEC
    opposing the Levitt proposal, the one who topped the list of legislators
    on the take was New York Democratic Sen. Chuck Schumer, who sucked in
    $340,000 in campaign cash from AICPA and the "Big Five" largest accounting
    firms. So-called "liberal" Democratic congressmen, like Florida's Peter
    Deutsch ($131,198) and Connecticut's Jim Maloney ($51,095), as well as
    "New Democrats" Ellen Tauscher ($82,801) and Cal Dooley ($65,000) of
    California, Washington's Adam Smith ($21,500), and Virginia's Jim Moran
    ($115,661) made the Top 25 list of those House members who took the most
    money from the accounting industry to help kill the reform proposal.

    Of course, WorldCom's binge of fraudulently financed acquisitions that
    made it the planet's largest communications conglomerate took place during
    the corporate-coddling Clinton years, when Bubba turned the Lincoln
    Bedroom into a hot-sheet hotel room for corporate crooks, and put a
    virtual end to antitrust prosecutions (with the notable exception of
    Microsoft, whose Silicon Valley competitors had purchased Clinton and
    Gore's loyalty). In a July 10-11 CNN/Time poll, 40 percent blame Clinton
    for the corporate scandals, while only 33 percent blame Bush.

    That helps explain why it took the brain-dead Democratic leadership so
    many long months after Enron's collapse last fall to get on the corporate
    reform bandwagon. When Tom Daschle and Dick Gephardt finally made a joint
    appearance to announce the Democratic alternative to Dubya's rhetorically
    strong but toothless speech on the issue, they did so at a podium
    decorated with the oxymoronic slogan, "Restore Corporate Trust and
    Integrity"--as if either virtue had ever been a hallmark of corporate
    America. (If the slogan had been "Put the Crooks in Jail," the Democrats
    might have had a better chance of arousing sleepy voters.)

    The Democratic proposals were so weak--an oversight board, slightly longer
    jail terms in some cases--that they passed the Senate with unanimous or
    near-unanimous votes (the White House gave its backdoor approval to the
    GOP solons' votes for the Democratic amendments to protect them from
    charges of corporate-coddling in the fall campaign--knowing that Tom "The
    Hammer" DeLay and his lockstep House GOP troops would ensure an even
    weaker final bill when it goes to the House-Senate conference). At the end
    of the first day's Senate voting, Daschle appeared on the Jim Lehrer
    Newshour to smilingly proclaim that "the differences are narrowing"
    between the Democrats and the White House--hardly a rallying cry for a
    Democratic victory in November.

    The next day, Daschle even connived with the GOP to prevent a series of
    amendments to strengthen the reform bill, offered by Democrat Carl Levin
    and Republican John McCain, from coming to a floor vote. Among them: a
    proposal, supported by Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, to count
    stock options as an expense against earnings in order to prevent companies
    from giving investors false information about corporate balance sheets--an
    effort, in other words, to eliminate the loophole that allowed the Enron
    crooks and their imitators to walk away with fortunes while their
    employees lost their retirement savings. Why was it quashed? The proposal
    was anathema to the high-tech execs who provided a huge chunk of the
    record $45 million in soft and hard campaign cash the Democrats have
    raised so far this cycle. As McCain put it, "The fix is in."

    We're in the biggest corporate crisis since l932, the election is only
    four months away, and the Democrats still don't have a program to take to
    the country," fumes Russ Hemenway, the veteran director of the National
    Committee for an Effective Congress. The NCEC calculates that there are
    only 37 House races in which the outcome is seriously in doubt. The
    Democrats need to pick up seven of those seats to retake control.
    (Democratic Rep. Ralph Hall of Texas has already announced that, in the
    event of a tie in the makeup of the new House next year, he'll vote with
    the Republicans to assure they preserve their majority.) And, Hemenway
    says grimly, "Taking seven seats will be like climbing Mount Everest."

    Democratic chances of retaining their one-vote Senate control are shaky at
    best. Three Democratic incumbents are in serious danger: Minnesota's Paul
    Wellstone, Missouri's Carnahan and South Dakota's Tim Johnson; while the
    party's best chances of picking up GOP seats are against Colorado's Wayne
    Allard and Arkansas' Tim Hutchinson (although both are still leading in
    the polls). If New Hampshire's wacky Bob Smith is defeated in the
    Republican primary by Rep. John Sununu (son of Bush I's chief of staff),
    as seems likely, he'll probably retain the seat for the GOP. The only open
    Republican seat the Democrats have an outside chance to pick up is in
    Texas, where Kirk has a slim lead at the moment over his GOP opponent. But
    Georgia's Cleland and Iowa's Tom Harkin are both facing stiff GOP
    challenges.

    On the state level, the only real Democratic bright spot this year is in
    Michigan, where state Attorney General Jennifer Granholm (who was arrested
    during college at an anti-apartheid sit-in) is poised to win the party's
    gubernatorial nomination and has a 2-1 lead over her ultra-right GOP
    opponent in the polls. But the news is bad for the Dems in other big
    states: California Gov. Gray Davis has yet to break 50 percent in any
    poll, his negatives are higher than his positives, and his lead over his
    GOP opponent has been steadily narrowing (in a race in which Davis'
    frantic corporate shakedowns for campaign cash have become a major issue).
    New York Gov. George Pataki, having bought off half the labor movement and
    a big slice of the Latino vote, will handily defeat whichever of the two
    Democrats wins the September primary (barring an unexpected November
    breakthrough by a wealthy independent, deficit hawk Tom Golisano). And
    Florida Gov. Jeb Bush will romp to victory over Janet Reno if, as the
    polls suggest, she wins her primary.

    And what of the Greens? Ralph Nader, who inexplicably hibernated for six
    months after the 2000 elections--throwing away a chance to turn his
    legions of volunteers into an effective electoral fighting force while
    their enthusiasm was at its peak--resurfaced for the first time in months
    on TV news on the same day the WorldCom thieves were taking the Fifth. And
    where was dear Ralph? In Havana, warmly greeting Fidel--at a time when he
    should have been in Washington leading the charge against corporate fraud.
    These issues are Nader's meat and potatoes, but the man has the political
    timing of an aardvark.

    Moreover, while the Greens are right to run gubernatorial candidates
    against Democratic mediocrities in places like New York--where
    working-class intellectual Stanley Aronowitz, a well-known figure on the
    left, is carrying the party's banner with the feisty slogan "Tax and
    spend!"--it's bad strategy and bad politics for the party to put up a
    candidate against Minnesota's Wellstone, the Senate's most progressive
    member. The Green vote could ensure Wellstone's defeat in a terribly close
    race, exposing the alternative party to ridicule (and properly so). Don't
    look for any Green breakthroughs this year. [Doug Ireland and I part
    company on this comment on Minnesota - ed]

    All in all, this election cycle looks so dismal that, as Hemenway puts it,
    "one wants to avert one's eyes."

    [It is interesting that he gives the Dems such low marks on so many major
    issues, yet winds up supporting the (least-worst part of the) party with
    his vote and his rhetoric, with little to spare for a party of higher
    marks. A common liberal position these days. Alas. - ed]
  • Max Herman | Fri Jul 26th 2002 1 a.m.
    From: <A HREF="mailto:tidepool@suspicious.org">tidepool@suspicious.org</A>
    Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:thingist@bbs.thing.net">thingist@bbs.thing.net</A>
    To: <A HREF="mailto:thingist@bbs.thing.net">thingist@bbs.thing.net</A>, <A HREF="mailto:nettime-l@bbs.thing.net">nettime-l@bbs.thing.net</A>
    Sent from the Internet (Details)

    max,
    as far as i understood this was 'thingist', not your private artforum
    highlights?

    jesus.
    -bny

    p.s. wee bit cranky. tonsilitus caused by mono. here come another 2 weeks of
    vacation.
  • arc.pulso | Fri Jul 26th 2002 1 a.m.
    :.:.:---------------------------------- o .
    o ----------------------------------:.:.:

    ola

    ----------------............................-----------------
    .....................................................

    algo que hacer el domingo ? ? ?
    .........................................
    ------------------------
    ----------------
    - .. - .. -

    cyberlounge > museo tamayo > presenta

    inmerso > forosonoro .7

    espacio-momento de experimentacion sonora
    electronica/acustica/analogo/digital >
    programa/acto ( x ) invitados especiales..<
    domingocadaquincedias > de.una.a.seis

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
    --------------

    quien ///
    programa / seleccion / acto

    |||||||||||||||||||| arcangel constantini & alvaro
    ruiz ||||||||||||||||||||
    |||||||||| SID TUNES ||||||||||
    |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||=
    |||||||||||||||

    S. I .D

    en 1982 Bob Yanes desarrollo el revolucionario chip 6581 conocido como
    SID ( sound interface device ) .
    el SID era el responsable del procesamiento sonoro de la computadora
    comodore 64 <
    con este nuevo chip > un sofisticado sintetizador musical < un nuevo genero=

    de musica nacio <
    artistas como rob hubbard o martin galaway
    componia programando el chip SID directamente en assembler
    en el boom del video juego
    este sintetizador de 3 voces con un amplio rango de frecuencias y un
    reducido costo le dio a la comodore 64
    capacidades muy adelantadas a su tiempo
    empezando a forgar una industria en el procesamiento sonoro digital casero <
    compositores programadores, desarrolladores de software < puristas del soni=
    do
    han mantenido al dia el conocido e inigualable sonido del chip SID >
    desarrollado emuladores para varios sistemas operativos entre otros
    Win95, Win3.1, Linux, MSDOS, MacOS, AmigaOS, Atari Falcon, BeOS, OS/2, etc
    asi como plug in para navegadores e instrumentos VST incorporado a tarjeas=

    de sonido
    o en instrumentos stand alone como el sidstation<
    que nos permiten disfrutar de las miles de composiciones antiguas y
    contemporaneas
    que nos remiten a los inicios del videojuego y la computacion casera <

    http://www.uiah.fi/~spekkola/games/show.html

    |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||=
    |||||
    ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

    ........................

    cuando /// > domingo 28 julio _ - _

    de.una.a.seis

    http://www.museotamayo.org/forosonoro

    + > > > > > >

    domingocadaquincedias > de.una.a.seis

    cyberlounge > museo tamayo arte contemporaneo >

    inmerso > forosonoro

    ...........................................

    ...................................
    ................

    http://www.unosunosyunosceros.com/inmerso
    ---------------------------------------

    Mayores informes al 52 86 65 19 ext. 228 con Paola Berra / Prensa y
    Difusion / Museo Tamayo
    Paseo de la Reforma y Gandhi S / N. Bosque de Chapultepec, 11580 Mexico,=

    D.F. Tels.(52) 52 86 65 19 / 52 86 65 29 Fax. (52) 52 86 65 39
    mrtamayo_00@yahoo.com / www.museotamayo.org

    Para darte de baja (UNSUBSCRIBE) envia desde tu cuenta de correo ##L@rhiz=
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    Para obtener ayuda escribe a atsyber-info@eListas.net

    La lista at/syber es un proyecto de activismo cultural realizado por osca=
    r a. garcia ::: + info > http://www.cuadrilumpios.cjb.net

    _______________________________________________________________________
    Visita nuestro patrocinador:
    ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
    Tops, banadores, short, pareos, ropa de bano, etc.
    Pleno Verano Collection -
  • Max Herman | Tue Jul 30th 2002 1 a.m.
    In your white lace and your wedding bells

    You look the picture of contented new wealth

    But from the on-looking fool who believed your lies

    I wish this grave would open up and swallow me alive

    For the bitterest pill is hard to swallow

    The love I gave hangs in sad coloured, mocking shadows

    When the wheel of fortune broke, you fell to me

    Out of grey skies to change my misery

    The vacant spot, your beating heart took its place

    But now watch smoke leave my lips and fill an empty room

    For the bitterest pill is hard to swallow

    The love I gave hangs in sad coloured, mocking shadows

    The bitterest pill is mine to take

    If I took if for a hundred years, I couldn't feel anymore ill

    The bitterest pill is mine to take

    If I took if for a hundred years, I couldn't feel anymore ill

    Now autumn's breeze blows summer's leaves through my life

    Twisted and broken dawn, no days with sunlight

    The dying spark, you left your mark on me

    The promise of your kiss, but with someone else

    For the bitterest pill is mine to swallow

    The love I gave hangs in sad coloured, mocking shadows

    The bitterest pill is mine to take

    If I took if for a hundred years, I couldn't feel anymore ill

    The bitterest pill is mine to take

    If I took if for a hundred years, I couldn't feel anymore ill

    The bitterest pill is mine to take

    If I took if for a hundred years, I couldn't feel anymore ill

    The bitterest pill is mine to take

    If I took if for a hundred years, I couldn't feel anymore ill
  • Max Herman | Tue Jul 30th 2002 1 a.m.
    Some people might say my life is in a rut,

    But I'm quite happy with what I got

    People might say that I should strive for more,

    But I'm so happy I can't see the point.

    Somethings happening here today

    A show of strength with your boy's brigade

    and I'm so happy and you're so kind

    You want more money, of course I don't mind

    To buy nuclear textbooks for atomic crimes

    And the public gets what the public wants

    But I want nothing this society's got

    I'm going underground (going underground)

    Well the brass bands play and feet start to pound

    Going underground (going underground)

    Well let the boys all sing and let the boys all shout for tomorrow

    Some people might get some pleasure out of hate

    Me, I've enough already on my plate

    People might need some tension to relax

    Me, I'm too busy dodging between the flak

    What you see here is what you get

    You've made your bed, you better lie in it

    You choose your leaders and place your trust

    As their lies wash you down and their promises rust

    You'll see kidney machines replaced by rockets and guns

    And the public wants what the public gets

    But I don't get what this society wants

    I'm going underground (going underground)

    Well let the brass bands play and feet start to pound

    Going underground (going underground)

    So let the boys all sing and the boys all shout for tomorrow

    We talk and talk until my head explodes

    I turn on the news and my body froze

    These braying sheep on my TV screen

    Make this boy shout, make this boy scream

    Going underground, I'm going underground

    I'm going underground, I'm going underground

    These braying sheep on my tv screen...

    Make this boy shout, make this boy scream...

    Going underground (going underground)

    Well let the brass band play and feet start to pound

    Going underground (going underground)

    Well let the boys all sing, and the boys all shout

    Going underground (going underground)

    Well let the brass band play and feet go pow pow pow

    Going underground (going underground)

    So let the boys all sing and let the boys all shout.....

    .....for tomorrow
  • Max Herman | Tue Jul 30th 2002 1 a.m.
    ISRAELITES

    > I get up in the morning
    > slaving for bread sir,
    > so that every mouth can be fed,
    > oooh, oooh mi Israelites. Mi wife an' ma kids
    > them a pack up an'a leave me,
    > "darling" she said "I was yours to be seen",
    > oooh, oooh mi Israelites. Cho! shirt dem a tear-up
    > trousers a go,
    > I don't wan' to end up like Bonny and Clyde, [ie, full of holes]
    > ooh, oooh mi Israelites. After a storm there must be a calm,
    > you catch me in your farm,
    > you sound your alarm,
    > oooh, oooh mi Israelites.
    >
    >
    >
  • Max Herman | Tue Jul 30th 2002 1 a.m.
    Radio Radio

    Radio Radio

    I was tuning in the shine on the light night dial
    doing anything my radio advised
    with every one of those late night stations
    playing songs bringing tears to me eyes
    I was seriously thinking about hiding the receiver
    when the switch broke 'cause it's old
    They're saying things that I can hardly believe.
    They really think we're getting out of control.

    Radio is a sound salvation
    Radio is cleaning up the nation
    They say you better listen to the voice of reason
    But they don't give you any choice
    'cause they think that it's treason.
    So you had better do as you are told.
    You better listen to the radio.

    I wanna bite the hand that feeds me.
    I wanna bite that hand so badly.
    I want to make them wish they'd never seen me.

    Some of my friends sit around every evening
    and they worry about the times ahead
    But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference
    and the promise of an early death
    You either shut up or get cut out;
    they don't wanna hear about it.
    It's only inches on the reel-to-reel.
    And the radio is in the hands of such a lot of fools
    tryin' to anaesthetise the way that you feel

    [Chorus]

    Wonderful radio
    Marvelous radio
    Wonderful radio
    Radio, radio...
  • Max Herman | Tue Jul 30th 2002 1 a.m.
    (What's So Funny 'Bout)Peace, Love And Understanding

    As I walk through
    This wicked world
    Searchin' for light in the darkness of insanity.

    I ask myself
    Is all hope lost?
    Is there only pain and hatred, and misery?

    And each time I feel like this inside,
    There's one thing I wanna know:
    What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding? Ohhhh
    What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?

    And as I walked on
    Through troubled times
    My spirit gets so downhearted sometimes
    So where are the strong
    And who are the trusted?
    And where is the harmony?
    Sweet harmony.

    'Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry.
    What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding? Ohhhh
    What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?

    So where are the strong?
    And who are the trusted?
    And where is the harmony?
    Sweet harmony.

    'Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry.
    What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding? Ohhhh
    What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding? Ohhhh
    What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?
  • Max Herman | Tue Jul 30th 2002 1 a.m.
    EVEN THE LOSERS

    Well, it was nearly all summer we sat on your roof
    Yeah, we smoked cigarettes and we stared at the moon
    And I'd show you stars you never could see
    Baby, it couldn't have been that easy to forget about me

    Baby, time meant n othing, anything seemed real
    Yeah, you could kiss like fire and you made me feel
    Like every word you said was meant to be
    No, it couldn't have been that easy to forget about me

    Baby, even the losers get lucky sometimes
    Even the lo sers keep a little bit of pride
    They get lucky sometimes

    Two cars parked on the overpass,
    Rocks hit the water like broken glass
    I should have known right then it was too good to last
    God, it's such a drag when you're livin' in the past

    Baby, even the losers get lucky sometimes
    Even the losers keep a little bit of pride
    They get lucky sometimes

    Baby, even the losers get lucky sometimes
    Even the losers keep a little bit of pride
    Yeah, they get lucky sometimes

    Baby, even the losers get lucky sometimes
    Even the losers get lucky sometimes

    Even the losers get lucky sometimes
    Even the losers get lucky sometimes
    Even the losers get lucky sometimes
  • Max Herman | Tue Jul 30th 2002 1 a.m.
    Steve Earle - lyrics from I Feel AlrightSteve Earle Feel Alright (Steve
    Earle) Hard-Core Troubadour (Steve Earle) More Than I Can Do (Steve Earle)
    Hurtin' Me, Hurtin' You (Steve Earle) Now She's Gone (Steve Earle) Poor Boy
    (Steve Earle) Valentine's Day (Steve Earle) The Unrepentant (Steve Earle)
    CCKMP (Steve Earle) Billy And Bonnie (Steve Earle) South Nashville Blues
    (Steve Earle) You're Still Standing There (Steve Earle) Feel Alright(Steve
    Earle)I was born my papa's son A wanderin' eye and a smokin' gun Now some of
    you would live through me Lock me up and throw away the key Or just find a
    place to hide away Hope that I'll just go away I feel alright  I feel
    alright tonight I'll bring you precious contraband And ancient tales from
    distant lands Of conquerors and concubines and Conjurers from darker times
    Betrayal and conspiracy Sacrilege and heresy I got every thing you wont or
    need Your darkest fear, your fondest dream I ask you questions, tell you lies
    Criticize and sympathize Be careful what you wish for friend Because I've
    been to hell and now I'm back againHard-Core Troubadour(Steve Earle)Girl,
    don't bother to lock your door He's out there hollering, "Darlin' don't you
    love me no more?" You always let him in before now didn't you He's just
    singing the some old song That he always sang before He's the last of the
    hard-core troubadours Girl, better figure out which is which Wherefore art
    thou Romeo you son of a bitch You'd just as soon fight as switch now wouldn't
    you He's come to make love on your satin sheets Wake up on your living room
    floor He's the last of the hard-core troubadours He's the lost of the
    all-night, do right Stand beneath your window 'til daylight He's the last of
    the hard-core troubadours Baby, whet you waitin' for Girl, figure out what
    you're gonna do When he moves on again and he leaves you alone and blue But
    you knew he is just passin' through now didn't you And now you can't just say
    this is the last time baby Like you always did before He's the last of the
    hard-core troubadoursMore Than I Can Do(Steve Earle)I'm trying hard to let
    you go But it's more than I can do And every day or two I wind up right back
    where I started I'm trying not to let you know That I'm still in love with
    you I can't just sit home blue 'Cause there ain't no rest for the
    brokenhearted Just because you won't unlock your door That don't mean you
    don't love me anymore No matter what you do Because you know it's more than I
    can do You told me that I got to stop But it's more than I can do And that
    ain't nothing new 'Cause we both know that I'm crazy about you You said
    you're gonna call the cops But I ain't gonna run Because you're the only one
    There ain't no way I could live without you You left me just when I needed
    you So l ain't even close to through with youHurtin' Me, Hurtin' You(Steve
    Earle)Here I am, out in the rain I know I can't ever wash out the pain I
    never meant to be cruel or untrue I'm just hurtin' me when I'm hurtin' you
    Girl I won't say, I'm hurtin' more I know that you've heard all that before
    So go on believe what you wanna believe But I'm hurtin' you then I'm hurtin'
    me I know it's hard to keep hanging on You think that I hold all of the
    cards; I know you're wrong And girl just like me, you ain't got a clue I'm
    just hurtin' me when I'm hurtin' you You know I love you baby God only knows
    that I do I know I've been bad baby I never, ever meant to be bad to you I
    never meant to be cruel or untrue I'm just hurtin' me when I'm hurtin' youNow
    She's Gone(Steve Earle)She was her daddy's little darlin' Her mama's only
    child They didn't understand at all when She took to running wild She left
    town one day and never said goodbye Left a hole in daddy's lap and a tear in
    mama's eye Where'd we go wrong and now she's gone She met a boy up in
    Kentucky Charlie was his name Just when he thought he got lucky She stole his
    watch and chain She always kept on movin' and she never wasted time And they
    said she left quite a string of broken hearts behind Woke up alone and now
    she's gone Me, I wasn't even trying You could say I was content She went
    through my life like lightning Blew out the other end I still taste her
    kisses, smell her perfume in the wind And if I could you know that I would do
    it all again She done me wrong, and now she's gonePoor Boy(Steve Earle)I was
    born on the other side of town Everybody over there just puts me down I never
    thought about it much, til the first time I saw you Uh-oh, what's a poor boy
    gonna do It's bad enough to love you from afar Me down here and you up where
    you are If you hadn't given me that look, that's all it took it's true U-oh,
    what's a poor boy gonna do Baby what's a poor boy got, not a heck of a lot
    Just a heart that's true One thing he sure doesn't need is a heart that
    bleeds And these lovesick blues I know o poor boy can't go far Baby, maybe
    someday drive your car I can look in my rearview, into those eyes of blue
    Uh-oh what's a poor boy gonna doValentine's Day(Steve Earle)I come to you
    with empty hands I guess I just forgot again I only got my love to send On
    Valentine's Day I ain't got a card to sign Roses have been hard to find I
    only hope that you'll be mine On Valentine's Day I know that I swore that I
    wouldn't forget I wrote it all down: I lost it I guess There's so much I want
    to say But all the words just slip away The way you love me every day Is
    Valentine's Day If I could I would deliver to you Diamonds and gold; it's the
    least I can do So if you'll take my IOU I could make it up to you Until then
    I hope my heart will do For Valentine's DayThe Unrepentant(Steve Earle)In the
    middle of the night In the middle of a lonely night Stands alone in the pale
    moonlight Screams out in defiance He's got no one to turn to You could talk
    til you turn blue He'd just turn his back on you Ain't no compromising
    Cause he's totally untamed No fear of the unnamed But he'll take the blame
    Cause someone's gotta do it Now he's out on the highway He's got the key and
    the right of way His tank is full and his toll's paid Hellbound and
    determined He run a dangerous payload When he comes to the crossroads Ah, man
    it's all times to explode You'll just see the sky burnin' Now he's standin'
    at hell's door With a bad attitude and a forty-four The devil said, "What's
    up man Now what you come here for?" He said, "Man, let's just get to it" He
    said, "I always heard that you were the bad one There's a few places I ain't
    been, a few things I ain't done You got your pitchfork and I got my gun"
    Someone's gotta do itCCKMP (Cocaine Cannot Kill My Pain)(Steve Earle)Cocaine
    cannot kill my pain Like a freight train through my vein Cocaine cannot kill
    my pain Whiskey got no hold on me Left them chains in Tennessee Whiskey got
    no hold on me Don't come knockin' on my door Even that won't work no more
    Don't come knockin' on my door Heroin is the only thing The only gift the
    darkness brings Heroin is the only thing Guess you'd best leave me alone At
    least until these blues have gone Guess you'd best leave me aloneBilly And
    Bonnie(Steve Earle)Billy was 17 and mean as hell Bonnie said she was 30, it
    was hard to tell Billy met Bonnie on a Saturday night At the dirt track
    races, it was love at first sight Bonnie was wilder than the west wind blows
    Taught Billy every single thing he knows But she never told billy what she
    left out The part about the trouble when your times runs out When the thrill
    is gone, when your deal goes south It's all over when your time runs out
    Bonnie said, "Billy, don't you think it's time We moved on a little further
    down the line" So they knocked off a Texaco south of town Blew down the
    highway with the ragtop down Billy woke Bonnie up about first light Said,
    "You drive honey, I've been up all night" Now Billy wasn't sweatin' no APB
    Cause they didn't leave a single soul alive to see The boy was just 16, made
    his mama proud That don't mean nothin' when your time runs out Bonnie kept
    pushin' that Cadillac Billy passed out with the seat reared back Slept
    through Louisiana, then just past dark Bonnie pulled over in a roadside park
    Left Billy sleeping and she called the cops He never knew nothin' when the
    dime was dropped Bonnie knew what she had to do She called the sheriff and
    she cried on cue And the state police rousted Billy out He was dreaming about
    Bonnie when his time ran out The sheriff told Billy, "Boy, you're bound to
    die Cause this young lady's gonna testify That you done took her off against
    her will And she told us about the robbery and the boy you killed" The judge
    said, "Billy, what you got to say Before I have the sheriff carry you away"
    Billy looked Bonnie right in the eye But he didn't even have to ask her why
    But he turned around as they led him out He said, "I'll see you down in hell
    when your time runs out"South Nashville Blues(Steve Earle)I went downtown, it
    was just to ease my pain I ended up out walkin' in the rain I took my pistol
    and a hundred dollar bill I had everything I needed to get me killed
    Southside girls, they suit me just fine As long as I got money they don't
    whine The devil lives on Lewis Street I swear I seen him rockin' in his
    rockin' chair I start way up top of Lewis Street And I walk down to the end I
    start way up top and I walk down to the end I go way down in the bottoms And
    I come back up again Now Mama told me, Papa too They both talked til they
    turned blue But I got them ol' South Nashville blues again I won't be
    satisfied until they lock me up againYou're Still Standing There(Steve
    Earle)I've spent my life following things I cannot see And just when I catch
    up to them, they slip away from me I've been down a thousand trails I've
    never walked before I found out that without fail, they lead me to your door
    And the world keep turning round and round It leaves me hanging in the air My
    heart keeps turning upside down And you're still standin' there Lately I see
    all the signs, I feel it in the wind The same thing happens every time that
    you come back again I admit that there are nights when I sit up and cry But
    sometimes I turn out the lights and pray you'll pass me by Since you're gone
    my empty arms have nothing left to hold And your memory cannot keep me warm
    but it never leaves me cold
  • Max Herman | Tue Jul 30th 2002 1 a.m.
    Re: Post-Modernism source of moral equivocation?

    by Kubrick, 07.30.02 11:17 pm

    max, you know, i've been relatively kind to you—tried to joke with =
    you about
    your quotes, tried to get you to say something, and then, when i responded =
    to
    something you said, you get all miffed. You really are a turkey wearing a=

    turkey's clothes.

    i don't reference anything? actually, i really work hard to make points and=

    arguments, but all i get is smutty shitface and mystic max. only rinaldo ha=
    s
    the decency to carry on a conversation. really.

    why is it, may i ask that you're even on this board? don't you have anythin=
    g
    to do? you're certainly not interested in the moral issues of postmodernism=
    .

    you have some gall, let me tell you.

    Re: Post-Modernism source of moral equivocation?

    by maxherman, 07.30.02 11:19 pm

    What?
  • Nikola Tosic | Fri Aug 2nd 2002 1 a.m.
    re = Why not? ...being pissed off at the state of the world is something
    I'm pretty much in favour of personally.

    me as well, as a starting point only

    but after understanding and will to change should take its place

    you have to understand the system which you criticize, why is it the way it is

    ;

    mailto:nikola@tosic.com
    http://www.nekada.com
    http://www.tosic.com
  • Nicolas Boulard | Fri Aug 2nd 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    It seems to be interesting
  • kendall thomas | Sun Aug 4th 2002 1 a.m.
    PLEASE REMOVE THE FOLLOWING NAMES FROM ANY OF YOUR LISTS:
    latinraw@aol.com
    jcolina@latinraw.com

    Thank You
  • kendall thomas | Sun Aug 4th 2002 1 a.m.
    PLEASE REMOVE THE FOLLOWING NAMES FROM ANY OF YOUR LISTS:
    latinraw@aol.com
    jcolina@latinraw.com

    Thank You
  • christopher otto | Sat Aug 10th 2002 1 a.m.
    >

    most of these works just sound really boring to me. who really cares if you can make algorithms that look like a bunch of people on the street? maybe for disabled people who cant experience it but ill take the roof pool on top of the holiday inn in chinatown sf anyday.

    its like that dj irobot thing from MIT. i was glad to see an article in FRANK about the miserable performance it did in brooklyn battling after all the lauding from the transmediale/ars electronica crowd.

    ze frank also strikes me this way. i dont understand what makes the drunken fratbrother dance style any more interesting on a webpage than in real life. why would i want to look at that online when i spend my life with ballet dancers and breakdancers?

    the other issue is that most of this work is selected just because it is digital. those cyborg sex robots that are airbrushed on conversion vans and flying v guitars arent in the show but basically say the same thing.

    so i guess my point is that when digital art takes on other subjects often it seems like a "wierd science" move for people who cant hang. i think other topics beuyond tech are totally valid and necessary though i think setting up algorithms to simulate them is really really boring.

    as nietzche said "philosophy is to life as masturbation is to sex".

    chris otto
  • alejandro espinoza | Mon Aug 12th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    I just would like to know what programs, technologies, devices you use in order to create these pieces.

    Thank you.
  • alexandra reill | Wed Aug 14th 2002 1 a.m.
    > it would be interesting to learn more about the project ...
  • Pall Thayer | Wed Aug 14th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    No
  • marc garrett | Wed Aug 21st 2002 1 a.m.
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    charset="Windows-1252"
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    Blank2 new 'Ouch Those Monkey' gems

    "Souls Settled Within Not Seeing"

    "I am Everywhere"

    http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/388/ouch_those_monkeys.html

    ------=_NextPart_001_00CC_01C24948.58721660
    Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="Windows-1252"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
    <HTML><HEAD><TITLE id=ridTitle>Blank</TITLE>
    <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-125=
    2"><BASE
    href="file://C:Program FilesCommon FilesMicrosoft SharedStationery">
    <STYLE>BODY {
    MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 25px; COLOR: #000000; FONT=
    -FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica
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    P.msoNormal {
    MARGIN-TOP: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; COLOR: #ffffcc; FONT-F=
    AMILY: Helvetica, "Times New Roman"
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    LI.msoNormal {
    MARGIN-TOP: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; COLOR: #ffffcc; FONT-F=
    AMILY: Helvetica, "Times New Roman"
    }
    </STYLE>

    <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
    <BODY id=ridBody bgColor=#ffffff
    background=cid:00ca01c2493f$f6ab3d60$0100a8c0@FURTHERFIELD>
    <DIV><STRONG>2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;new 'Ouch Those Monkey' gems</STRONG></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#0000ff>"Souls Settled Within Not
    Seeing"<BR><BR><BR><A
    href="http://artists.mp3s.com/artist_song/2688/2688164.html"><B>"I am
    Everywhere"</B></A><BR></FONT></U></STRONG></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><A
    href="http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/388/ouch_those_monkeys.html">http:/=
    /artists.mp3s.com/artists/388/ouch_those_monkeys.html</A></DIV>
    <P>&nbsp;</P></BODY></HTML>

    ------=_NextPart_001_00CC_01C24948.58721660--
  • Max Herman | Thu Aug 22nd 2002 1 a.m.
    Re: PAINTING

    by maxherman, 08.21.02 06:59 pm

    Here's an oddish website, not mine, any thoughts?

    <A HREF="http://www.bobig.com/landscape/">www.bobig.com/landscape/</A>

    Re: PAINTING

    by welchsonnyo, 08.21.02 11:48 pm

    The style is familiar, yet absence of other things make its presence a
    haunting, is it too fine? What ever it is you will be sure you did it if?

    [<A HREF="http://artforum.com/talkback/replyF03">Reply</A>] [<A HREF="http://artforum.com/talkback/overviewF03">Overview</A>]
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Aug 23rd 2002 1 a.m.
    The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
    source of all true art and science. He to whom the emotion is a stranger,
    who can no longer pause to wonder and stand wrapped in awe, is as good as
    dead; his eyes are closed. The insight into the mystery of life, coupled
    though if be with fear, has also given rise to religion. To know what is
    inpenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom
    and the most radiant beauty, which our dull faculties can comprehend only
    in their most primitive forms--this knowledge, this feeling is at the
    center of true religiousness.

    Albert Einstein

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Aug 23rd 2002 1 a.m.
    If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the
    thing itself, but to your own estimate of it; and this you have the power
    to revoke at any moment.

    Marcus Aurelius 160 AD

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • vishal R | Sun Aug 25th 2002 1 a.m.
    > To all those who have been participating in this discussion:

    Thanks for your comments.

    Some things that make the whole issue very clear:

    ###
    Firstly, I have charged Bea with illegitimately re-appropriating my project (Mrs. Jeevan Jham) as her own (without crediting me at all) and then proposing to build on it. She never informed me and was never granted my permission for this.

    Her response to this (in an e-mail sent to me) is that it was a collaborative project co-authored by both of us. She has accepted that it was a mistake on her part not to credit me for it and has apologized for this.

    I have asserted earlier that even if Bea is to be believed, she has no right to individually start building on something which she singularly doesn't own. She never informed me about this or asked my permission. Hence by Bea's own admission she is guilty (or partially guilty) on the first count. Her apology comes too late and is useless as it still does not give me back the right to continue to develop a project which I initiated.

    ###
    Secondly, I have claimed that the &#8216;nungu collective&#8217; did not exist when Bea applied for the grant as a collective and the grant will solely benefit her.

    The direct proof of this lies in the nungu resume listed on the Rhizome website itself. It explicitly names Bea and me as the only members of nungu. This partnership broke down in February this year and the &#8216;collective nature&#8217; of nungu came to an end. The resume attached to the grant proposal does not mention any new collaborators. In fact it tries to imply that Bea = nungu. Bea&#8217;s CV and nungu&#8217;s CV are written concurrently: Bea&#8217;s date of birth followed by nungu&#8217;s d.o.b., her address followed by nungu&#8217;s IP address etc. Bea also states that nungu is her digital manifestation! Then how is nungu a collective???

    Also, the grant proposal clearly states in the budget section that the grant amount will (besides for equipment) pay for only one artist i.e. B. Gibson and one unnamed programmer. Hence there is no doubt that it is she alone and not any collective which will benefit from the grant.

    ###
    Thirdly, I had accused Bea of claiming undue credit in her resume for work not done by her.

    Bea has accepted (in an e-mail sent to me) that the omission of individual names is a mistake on her part and that this could make it seem that she is primarily responsible for all the projects. She has since sent me an updated credit list with all contributors duly mentioned which put things into perspective. However, again the remedial measure comes too late. Further, Bea has credited herself as a &#8216;collaborating artist&#8217; on several projects, which is a lie.

    All contributors mentioned in the credit list (including me) have impressive resumes (I don&#8217;t mean to be immodest), which go back to at least five to six years; they have done at least one or two award winning projects, have won important scholarships and grants and have worked on several commissioned projects in the past.

    Bea has never ever individually executed a single work of art in her entire life and can at the most (illegitimately &#8211; according to me) claim to be a collaborator on only two art projects: Masala_x and Mrs. Jeevan Jham done in the last year.

    She is asked to submit her personal resume and academic qualifications prior to winning the grant &#8211; without frills and fancy writing. That would make the facts very obvious to all.

    I hope I have made things very clear and provided enough facts to support my claims. The onus is on Bea to either own up to her mistakes publicly (she has done so privately to me &#8211; which is of no consequence) or to refute the charges by proving the facts presented by me as false.

    The important issue here is my right to continue work on a project initiated by me &#8211; which has been illegitimately snatched away. The grant amount does not interest me in the least. If I have to, I will apply for a grant at my own sweet time. I am currently engaged in executing a commissioned project which is more important to me presently, but I do not intend to gift away Mrs. Jeevan Jham to Bea as a gracious gesture from a generous Indian to this British visitor.

    Thank you for hearing me out.

    Regards,
    Vishal Rawlley
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sun Aug 25th 2002 1 a.m.
    eu-gene-l portrait with language:

    http://www.photo.net/photo/2000pcd1677/koi-98.tcl

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • mateo | Sun Aug 25th 2002 1 a.m.
    hi, im new to the list,
    im an joung artist from argentina,
    i work with video, animation, and interactive stuff mainly with director sh=
    ockwave.
    i work in a group too, that is called oligatega numeric.
    ill love if u look at my page, that is www.infimo.com.ar/bugboy
    the main page , www.infimo.com.ar have links to the other artist/friends of=
    the group (good artists)
    i was just sawing some of the work posted and i find some nice things.
    okay thanx.
    mateo
  • vishal R | Mon Aug 26th 2002 1 a.m.
    > Jhon said:
    okay, here is where the real issue starts. lets just say for the sake of clarity, the both of you contributed equally in terms of time and creative input to the original project. if this is true she totally has the right to build on the project independently unless you agreed when you first partnered to specifically *not* develop the "codebase" seperately in the future.

    ...
    At this point it stands to reason that you indeed *also* have the right to continue to develop the existing codebase independently of Bea.
    ...

    My reply:
    Firstly I would like to emphasize that Mrs. Jeevan Jham is entirely my project in conception and design. I had written the initial concept note and laid down the design and format of the project (the design and the sections of the web site and the initial web pages). Beatrice did help me implement the project and provided infrastructural support - she is a collaborator in that sense. But as far as the authorship of the work is concerned: I am the sole author.

    However, if it is still construed that this a co-authored work, I do not understand how one of them can start building on it without the others permission and without informing him/ her. Is that not unethical, if not illegal? Specially when the co-authors have not abandoned the project, or are deceased, or become mentally or physically unstable and incapable of executing the project. How can we both - she and me "also" - develop something independently which is based on a common premise which is the basis of the work? It would be like a film project with a co-written film script which one of the collaborators steals and starts making a film on. When the other guy tries to make a film on the same script the work would lose its credibility and the respectability and merit for its uniqueness. Then it would become a fight between who releases their film first. The second guy will get totally discredited, be looked upon as plagiarizer etc.

    If it was possible for me to develop this independently and maintain its uniqueness, why would I fight the issue instead of just doing my version of it? Different versions of this concept are not possible. I alone have the right to develop it.

    Bea cannot take my concept and start building on it just because it was lying on her server. She should think of her own original ideas.

    -vishal
  • chih-min chen | Mon Aug 26th 2002 1 a.m.
    > i stayed in kassel for four days. trying to explore the detailed of as many works as i could. then went to linz to vivit ars electronica center. too bad it was aug, and was too early to see "unplugged". but still those works in the center excited me more than documenta did.
  • John Klima | Mon Aug 26th 2002 1 a.m.
    hi v & all,

    for the sake of argument, i'm going to continue to assume
    "collaborative" means an equal share. i'm also trying to look at the
    problem in the abstract and not the specifics of this case.

    vishal R wrote:
    ...

    > However, if it is still construed that this a co-authored work, I do not understand how one of them can start building on it without the others permission and without informing him/ her. Is that not unethical, if not illegal? Specially when the co-authors have not abandoned the project, or are deceased, or become mentally or physically unstable and incapable of executing the project.
    >

    firstly, nothing is "illegal" here if there wasn't an agreement about
    ownership/authorship in the first place. this can be nothing more than a
    verbal agreement, and then it goes off to a civil court where it gets
    resolved. not likely in this situation so the question becomes a purely
    ethical one. if, lets say, me and my wife have a baby and then a
    divorce, who gets the baby? unless she or i is a complete incompetant,
    we both do. perhaps my ex-wife keeps and cares for the child but i still
    have visiting rights. whether she likes it or not, i can take the kid to
    the zoo without her.

    > How can we both - she and me "also" - develop something independently which is based on a common premise which is the basis of the work? It would be like a film project with a co-written film script which one of the collaborators steals and starts making a film on. When the other guy tries to make a film on the same script the work would lose its credibility and the respectability and merit for its uniqueness. Then it would become a fight between who releases their film first. The second guy will get totally discredited, be looked upon as plagiarizer etc.
    >

    that's a bad example because that kind of thing actually happens all the
    time, and when money is at stake, it goes to court. but back to the
    ethical issue, if author A takes the script to a studio who endorse it
    and want to make the movie, does author B have the right to reject the
    offer even if author A finds it acceptable? under normal circumstances,
    A and B would hash it out and some conclusion would be reached. however,
    if B is completely unreasonable, thinks that script is worth 3 million
    instead of 1 million and refuses to accept anything less, what recourse
    is available to author A who feels like 1 million is plenty good enough?
    so to me, it seems that the converse isn't right either.

    yes, its not so nice if partner A takes a collaborative piece and
    develops it independently, but its also not so nice if partner B
    categorically refuses to allow it.

    best,
    j
  • Pall Thayer | Mon Aug 26th 2002 1 a.m.
    I'm no lawyer but Rhizomes decision to reward someone a grant probably
    doesn't have anything to do with any kind of law except for what is
    agreed to in a contract. I doubt that Rhizome has any legal grounds for
    revoking the grant, which is what it sounds like VR wants them to do. If
    VR feels cheated out of his share of some money then he'll have to take
    that to court himself. This whole ordeal really has little to do with
    Rhizomes integrity since they awarded the grant in good faith. What
    happened to VR is something that happens to lots of people. They do
    something, forget to make sure that their rights to the work are
    protected, someone else steals it from them and makes some money. I
    think the only thing you can do about it is make sure it doesn't happen
    next time. It's a big fat bummer but that's life.

    Pall

    Hinn 26.08.2002 kl. 16:23 ritadhi John Klima:

    >
    > hi v & all,
    >
    > for the sake of argument, i'm going to continue to assume
    > "collaborative" means an equal share. i'm also trying to look at the
    > problem in the abstract and not the specifics of this case.
    >
    > vishal R wrote:
    > ...
    >
    >> However, if it is still construed that this a co-authored work, I do
    >> not understand how one of them can start building on it without the
    >> others permission and without informing him/ her. Is that not
    >> unethical, if not illegal? Specially when the co-authors have not
    >> abandoned the project, or are deceased, or become mentally or
    >> physically unstable and incapable of executing the project.
    >>
    >
    > firstly, nothing is "illegal" here if there wasn't an agreement about
    > ownership/authorship in the first place. this can be nothing more than a
    > verbal agreement, and then it goes off to a civil court where it gets
    > resolved. not likely in this situation so the question becomes a purely
    > ethical one. if, lets say, me and my wife have a baby and then a
    > divorce, who gets the baby? unless she or i is a complete incompetant,
    > we both do. perhaps my ex-wife keeps and cares for the child but i still
    > have visiting rights. whether she likes it or not, i can take the kid to
    > the zoo without her.
    >
    >> How can we both - she and me "also" - develop something independently
    >> which is based on a common premise which is the basis of the work? It
    >> would be like a film project with a co-written film script which one
    >> of the collaborators steals and starts making a film on. When the
    >> other guy tries to make a film on the same script the work would lose
    >> its credibility and the respectability and merit for its uniqueness.
    >> Then it would become a fight between who releases their film first.
    >> The second guy will get totally discredited, be looked upon as
    >> plagiarizer etc.
    >>
    >
    > that's a bad example because that kind of thing actually happens all the
    > time, and when money is at stake, it goes to court. but back to the
    > ethical issue, if author A takes the script to a studio who endorse it
    > and want to make the movie, does author B have the right to reject the
    > offer even if author A finds it acceptable? under normal circumstances,
    > A and B would hash it out and some conclusion would be reached. however,
    > if B is completely unreasonable, thinks that script is worth 3 million
    > instead of 1 million and refuses to accept anything less, what recourse
    > is available to author A who feels like 1 million is plenty good enough?
    > so to me, it seems that the converse isn't right either.
    >
    > yes, its not so nice if partner A takes a collaborative piece and
    > develops it independently, but its also not so nice if partner B
    > categorically refuses to allow it.
    >
    >
    > best,
    > j
    > + nungu shmungu
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >
    _____________________________________
    Pall Thayer
    myndlistamadhur/kennari
    artist/teacher
    Fjolbrautaskolanum vidh Armula (www.fa.is)
    http://www.this.is/pallit
    _____________________________________
  • vishal R | Mon Aug 26th 2002 1 a.m.
    > rahul, you are a paid employee of nungu. i know about you. you are not a collaborating artist. i suggest you keep out of this discussion as you have no idea what is really going on. you are working "under the leadeship of Bea". your comments are irrelevant. you only stand to make a fool of yourself by opening your mouth. your comments will only get Bea into further trouble as you are mentioning things which are untrue and none of it you can prove.

    -vishal
  • M. River | Mon Aug 26th 2002 1 a.m.
    --- "bea@nungu.com" <bea@nungu.com> wrote:
    > dear all
    >

    dear bea & vishals,

    Just a note to to say thank you (both) for responding
    to the list. I know it may seem odd to have a
    discussion like this in a public forum but one of the
    useful aspects of this space is that it is somewhat
    "open". Outside of your situation, questions that you
    are dealing with apply to many of us here. When we
    look at ideas like colaberation, content, and
    agreements, we are in a way speaking about a larger
    context.

    I hope you both find a satisfactory answer to your
    problems.

    =====
    http://mteww.com
    http://tinjail.com

    __________________________________________________
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
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  • Max Herman | Tue Aug 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    http://www.wizzard.com/gal.3d/Images/Chess1cB.jpeg

    Question mark: Is Chess Fascist?

    3d modeling is not my cat's pajama's but I saw a usable image last night;
    imagine a convex chess board viewed from directly above. (It's from the
    cover of Spassky et al's book on the Najdorf Defense invented in the 1930's
    by Argentinian Grandmaster Miguel Najdorf (hopefully not a fascist but he
    coulda been).

    I didn't make the above image, there's another one there of a Go game.

    You-Know-Who
    genius2000.net

    ps--Seriously Ivan, I think it's odd you think I'm Karei. That would mean
    that I have all this knowledge about Rastor Noton, Beatrice, and would even
    care to argue about it. What is the motive you think I might have to
    pretend to be Karei? I've flamed and snitted a tad with him before, months
    ago. It just doesn't add up. I think most people know I'm not Karei? I
    bet Beatrice could confirm it but she does not support Genius 2K so perhaps
    that is a No Go.--mh

    ++

    \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
    Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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  • Max Herman | Tue Aug 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    http://www.eonline.com/Celebs/Outabout/Archive2002/020821.html?fdcool1

    So you gotta put a prod even in front of the name of a pahrtee? Sweet Lords
    and Ladies above. I bet sales of Smirkoff Ice are driven in part by stories
    on global warming. And why is fluorescent green the new grabby color for
    human skin? Expressive decay is all I can suggest.

    Also, today marks the second anniversary of SFMOMA82700. Go to enjoy it at
    http://www.geocities.com/genius-2000/SFMOMA82700.html and may the force be
    with you (you can't force the force)!

    Caterpillar,

    Max Herman

    ++

    \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
    Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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  • Max Herman | Wed Aug 28th 2002 1 a.m.
    Er ah, this person is a super double secret genius.

    I eat fresh basil, picked fresh daily--for the skin you know.

    >From: __)_) <cirrusa>
    >To: "Max Herman" <maxnmherman@hotmail.com>
    >Subject: Re: Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 18:32:42 -0700
    >
    >
    >On Tuesday, Augu n skin? Expressive p
    >line.com/Celebs/Outabout/Archive2002/020821.html?fdcool1
    >>r huma ut a erman prod even
    >>
    >>Also, today marks the second annive decay is all I can suggest. rsary of
    >>SFMOMA82700. Go to enjoy it at http://www.geocities.com/
    >>
    >st 27, 2002, at 03:3 otta in front of the name of a pahrtee? Sweet Lords
    >and Ladies above. I bet sales of Smirk 5 PM, Max Herman wrote:
    >>genius-2000/SFMO off Ice are driven in part by stories on global warming.
    >>And why is fluorescent green the new grabby color fo ar,
    >>MA82700.html and may the force be with you (you can't force the force)!
    >>
    >>Caterpill
    >>
    >>So you g
    >>Max H
    >>
    >>++
    >>
    >>
    >>http://www.eon
    >>_________________________________________________________________
    >>Join the worldis largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
    >>http://www.hotmail.com
    >>
    >>+ I love this thread's tuna! Leslie Nielsen
    >>-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >>-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >>+
    >>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>

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  • mateo | Wed Aug 28th 2002 1 a.m.
    functional piece of the system
    aranging machinary life
    repeating clonated entities
    estimulated by self repetition
  • Max Herman | Sun Sep 1st 2002 1 a.m.
    Re: "Expressionism" still a valuable concept?

    by thingsthatgo, 09.01.02 07:31 am

    Hey Max
    Happy Birthday.
    My present is an image of bubbly in an hourglass.
    Sweet Sips.

    ++

    _________________________________________________________________
    Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
  • Frank Shifreen | Tue Sep 3rd 2002 1 a.m.
    The Exhibition "Ground Zero" ( July 13th Aug 24th ) at the Museum of New A=
    rt in Detroit (www.detroitmona.com) was very successful. Many articles w=
    ere written on the show and there was positive television and radio covera=
    ge as well. A catalog will be forthcoming and the show was extensively do=
    cumented. For the anniversary of 911 the organizers plan to encourage an=
    d document a series of street art installations and performances. We beli=
    eve that renegade or guerilla art can counter terrorism and empower indiv=
    iduals to create public forums. There seems to be a creeping fascism no=
    t only from terrorism but the reaction to it as well . Art can heal . I=
    nstitutionalism is deadening the creative response of healing art and i=
    llumination. If you want to participate in this effort please contact the=
    organizers as soon as possible. There will be a catalog, poster and web s=
    ite to monitor and document the work. Please send proposals, documentati=
    on as soon as possible to if you wish to be included. Sept 11th is not a =
    deadline. It is the start of the project which will last thru the autumn.=

    Note:
    If you participated in the Ground Zero exhibition contact the curators =
    about the return of work. We are planning future versions of the show at d=
    ifferent venues.
    Frank Shifreen, Daniel Scheffer, Julius Vitali
  • D42 Kandinskij | Wed Sep 4th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, natalie myers wrote:

    > STOP VIOLATING ME I HAVE RIGHTS

    Nobody has 'violated' your rights natalie.
    But then again--you don't have many--
    it's just easier to be spineless.

    Did you just discover the internet, or do you think what you're doing
    is funny? Someone give this girl a beret anda Che Gevara poster, anda
    Le Tigre CD.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • portholeaccel | Thu Sep 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    -IID42 Kandinskij @27+" > STOP VIOLATING ME I HAVE RIGHTS

    ha ha ha ha ha ah aha haha ha ahah ha ah aha ha aha ha ah aha hah aha ha ha ha ahah ha haha ha ha ah aha ha ahah aha ha haha ha aha ha ha aha ha haa hah aha hahahahahaha ha aha aha ha aha ha
    THERE ARE ONLY TWO KINDS OF PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD AND YOU ARE ONE OF THEM
    that is not good enough i want it like marx and i prefer romeo and juliet cigars and kim crawford wine and bennies ----------------------------------- tell me i am nothing tell me call me bad names ya ohhh ya i like it ha ha ha ha ha aha hahha ha ah you are boring. blah blah

    "The things that make you a person

    also prevent you from being one"

    ---------------------------------
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
  • D42 Kandinskij | Thu Sep 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, natalie myers wrote:

    > THERE ARE ONLY TWO KINDS OF PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD AND YOU ARE ONE OF THEM

    Yes. I'm *ONE OF THEM*. Tell us something new, Natalie.

    > that is not good enough i want it like marx

    Tell that to someone who cares.

    > and i prefer romeo and juliet cigars and kim crawford wine and bennies

    You do have the taste of a mollusk.

    > tell me i am nothing tell me

    You are nothing, Natalie. There, feel better?

    > call me bad names ya ohhh ya i like it

    Nobody has called you 'bad names'. You're calling them yourself,
    and screaming it loud and clear. I'm just re-playing it for you.

    > ha ha ha ha aha hahha ha ah you are boring. blah blah

    Must be. That must be why you keep coming around.
    Or is that masochistic habit of yours? Hard to kick it, ne?

    Here, have a drink. Courtesy of G2K coffee shop.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • Max Herman | Thu Sep 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    Now that we are plunging into a new Hundred Years War, I was thinking in the
    shower about how we got to this sorry pass. I've been pretty sure that Bush
    ending work against Al-Quaeda, switching from Clinton's "rolling back" to
    "eliminating", had a hella lot to do with 9/11 (Brit spymaster says FBI
    humped the bunk). So, Bush's election was very very bad in that result. He
    put normal terrorist monitoring on hold so he could do his new better plan.
    This was bad. Gore as president, no 9/11--just imagine it please.

    Why did Bush win? Well, by cheating, but also by Gore's inability to appeal
    to Nader Voters as the lesser of two evils. Why was this? Well, it was
    because the Democrats had gone too far right trying to catch Bush, and
    Clinton had received a sinfully pleasant blowjob.

    Why was our nation so insane as to elect a warmongering puppet to total
    office? Because Democrats saw no other way than to abandon Naderian
    concerns and deny the possibility of integrity in geopolitics. Democrats
    allowed themselves to avoid the task of making the nation better, by
    appealing to its wisdom and idealism, and ran a tepid campaign worthy of the
    truly weak.

    Why did artists permit this? Because of their own incompetence. Petty
    careerist bullshit was able to squelch the better genius of 2000. G2K could
    have had a huge impact on the 2000 elections, perhaps swaying Nader voters
    toward Gore, and Gore to Clinton supporters, and the nation back to having a
    conscience and dignity. However, art-hacks were able to suppress and negate
    Genius 2000 at the behest of the majority of idiots in the art industry.

    This is how democracy was destroyed as a human behavior.

    Max Herman
    genius2000.net

    ++

    \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
    Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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  • Max Herman | Thu Sep 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    KARIE DU BIST NOT CLOSE TO MY LEVEL.

    >From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    >Reply-To: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    >To: <list@rhizome.org>
    >Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 16:46:15 -0700 (PDT)
    >
    >On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, natalie myers wrote:
    >
    > > STOP VIOLATING ME I HAVE RIGHTS
    >
    > Nobody has 'violated' your rights natalie.
    > But then again--you don't have many--
    > it's just easier to be spineless.
    >
    > Did you just discover the internet, or do you think what you're doing
    > is funny? Someone give this girl a beret anda Che Gevara poster, anda
    > Le Tigre CD.
    >
    >`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
    >
    >
    >+ If the reader will keep me company I shall be glad.
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    _________________________________________________________________
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  • Max Herman | Thu Sep 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    >From: natalie myers <portholeaccel@yahoo.com>
    >Reply-To: natalie myers <portholeaccel@yahoo.com>
    >To: list@rhizome.org
    >Subject: RHIZOME_RAW:

    nATALIE, ME YOU GET DOWN ONE DAY.

    FJGIOPWUTI9
    GJWIPHG
    09WJH
    0H0GHJ I0 GI0
    0H
    H0HH
    0WHHHHJJJJJJJJJJJJG
    J09U9UG

    e:
    >Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 23:24:30 -0700 (PDT)
    >
    >
    >"-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" > STOP VIOLATING ME I HAVE RIGHTS
    >
    >ha ha ha ha ha ah aha haha ha ahah ha ah aha ha aha ha ah aha hah aha ha ha
    >ha ahah ha haha ha ha ah aha ha ahah aha ha haha ha aha ha ha aha ha haa
    >hah aha hahahahahaha ha aha aha ha aha ha
    >THERE ARE ONLY TWO KINDS OF PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD AND YOU ARE ONE OF THEM
    >that is not good enough i want it like marx and i prefer romeo and juliet
    >cigars and kim crawford wine and bennies
    >----------------------------------- tell me i am nothing tell me call me
    >bad names ya ohhh ya i like it ha ha ha ha ha aha hahha ha ah you are
    >boring. blah blah
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >"The things that make you a person
    >
    > also prevent you from being one"
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >---------------------------------
    >Do You Yahoo!?
    >Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

    _________________________________________________________________
    Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
  • Max Herman | Thu Sep 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    >From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    >Reply-To: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    >To: natalie myers <portholeaccel@yahoo.com>
    >CC: <list@rhizome.org>
    >Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 00:16:38 -0700 (PDT)
    >
    >On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, natalie myers wrote:
    >
    > > THERE ARE ONLY TWO KINDS OF PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD AND YOU ARE ONE OF THEM
    >
    > Yes. I'm *ONE OF THEM*. Tell us something new, Natalie.
    >
    > > that is not good enough i want it like marx
    >
    > Tell that to someone who cares.
    >
    > > and i prefer romeo and juliet cigars and kim crawford wine and bennies
    >
    > You do have the taste of a mollusk.
    >
    > > tell me i am nothing tell me
    >
    > You are nothing, Natalie. There, feel better?
    >
    > > call me bad names ya ohhh ya i like it
    >
    > Nobody has called you 'bad names'. You're calling them yourself,
    > and screaming it loud and clear. I'm just re-playing it for you.
    >
    > > ha ha ha ha aha hahha ha ah you are boring. blah blah
    >
    > Must be. That must be why you keep coming around.
    > Or is that masochistic habit of yours? Hard to kick it, ne?
    >
    > Here, have a drink. Courtesy of G2K coffee shop.
    >
    >`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
    >
    >+ If the reader will keep me company I shall be glad.
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    _________________________________________________________________
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  • D42 Kandinskij | Thu Sep 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Max Herman wrote:

    > KARIE DU BIST NOT CLOSE TO MY LEVEL.

    I am all levels, love.

    I thought it was hard to degrade you, but you're the first
    to self-degrade :)

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 6th 2002 1 a.m.
    AW, DO IT, ".
    "BUT, PERHAPS.. "
    "HO. A LOUD DOORBELL CLATTERING WITHIN HIM
    WHENEVER HE OPENS HIS MOUTH TO SPEAK?!
    THE IMPLICATIONS ARE ENORMOUS..."

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 6th 2002 1 a.m.
    In George Eliot's Middlemarch, Edward Casaubon spends his life in a futile
    attempt to find a comprehensive explanatory framework for the whole of
    mythology. He is writing a book which he calls the Key to all Mythologies.
    This is intended to show that all the mythologies of the world are corrupt
    fragments of an ancient corpus of knowledge, to which he alone has the
    key. Poor Mr Casaubon is, of course, deluded. His young wife Dorothea is
    at first dazzled by what she takes to be his brilliance and erudition,
    only to find, by the time he is on his deathbed, that the whole plan was
    absurd and she can do nothing with the fragments of the book that she is
    supposed to put into order for publication.

    In honour of Mr Casaubon, I have given this tendency of the mind to search
    for all-inclusive answers the name `Casaubon illusion'. I believe we are
    all liable to fall into it in one way or another, probably because it is
    an exaggeration of an inbuilt function of our minds. Typically the
    supplying of such answers is the province of religion, although something
    similar can occur in science too.

    The search for explanations is a normal and healthy function of the mind
    as a rule, but it can become abnormal and pathological if it is allowed to
    develop to excess. The problem arises when we push the desire for
    explanation too far, and impose our wishes on the world so as to make it
    conform to how we would like it to be. A very characteristic feature of
    the Casaubon illusion is the belief that the universe is constructed like
    a kind of giant cipher, a cosmic intelligence test set for us by God which
    it is our business to try to puzzle out. Mr Casaubon himself is of course
    an illustration of this, but he is following on a long tradition.
  • | Fri Sep 6th 2002 1 a.m.
    ( " iknewit " )

    "

    BERLIN, GERMANY (AP) - Recent admissions by an ex-Nazi official living in
    Argentina have confirmed what some musicologists have suspected for years:
    that early twentieth century German composer Anton Webern and his
    colleagues devised the so-called "serial" technique of music to encrypt
    messages to Nazi spies living in the United States and Britain.

    In what can surely be considered the most brazen instance of Art Imitating
    Espionage to date, avant garde composers of the Hitler years working in
    conjunction with designers of the Nazi Enigma code were bamboozling
    unsuspecting audiences with their atonal thunderings while at the same time
    passing critical scientific data back and forth between nations.

    "This calls into question the entire Second Viennese School of music,"
    announced minimalist composer John Adams from his home in the Adirondack
    Mountains. "Ever since I first encountered compositions by Arnold Schonberg
    I wondered what the hell anyone ever heard in it. Now I know."

    Gunned down by an American soldier in occupied Berlin, 62 year old Anton
    Webern's death was until now considered a tragic loss to the musical world.
    At the time the U.S. Army reported that the killing was "a mistake", and
    that in stepping onto the street at night to smoke a cigarette Webern was
    violating a strict curfew rule.

    It is now known that Webern was using music to shuttle Werner Heisenberg's
    discoveries in atomic energy to German spy Klaus Fuchs working on the
    Manhattan atom bomb project in New Mexico. Due to the secret nature of the
    project, which was still underway after the invasion of Berlin, Army
    officials at the time were unable to describe the true reason for Webern's
    murder.

    Hans Scherbius, a Nazi party official who worked with Minister of
    Propaganda Joseph Goebbels, admitted at age eighty-seven that the Nazis
    secretly were behind the twelve-tone technique of composition, which was
    officially reviled to give it the outlaw status it needed to remain outside
    of the larger public purview.

    "These pieces were nothing more than cipher for encoding messages," he
    chuckled during an interview on his balcony in Buenos Aires. "It was only
    because it was 'naughty' and difficult that elite audiences accepted it,
    even championed it."

    Physicist Edward Teller, who kept a 9-foot Steinway piano in his apartment
    at the Los Alamos laboratory, was the unwitting deliverer of Heisenburg's
    data to Fuchs, who eagerly attended parties thrown by Teller, an
    enthusiastic booster of Webern's music.

    Arnold Schonberg, the older musician who first devised the serial technique
    at the request of the Weimar government of Germany, composed in America to
    deliver bomb data stolen by Fuchs back to the Nazis, who worked feverishly
    to design their own atomic weapons.

    As an example, Scherbius showed Associated Press reporters the score of
    Webern's Opus 30 "Variations for Orchestra" overlaid with a cardboard
    template. The notes formed a mathematical grid that deciphered into German
    a comparison between the neutron release cross-sections of uranium isotopes
    235 and 238.

    Schonberg responded with a collection of songs for soprano and woodwinds
    that encrypted the chemical makeup of the polonium-beryllium initiator at
    the core of the Trinity explosion.

    And in Japan, Toru Takemitsu took time out from his own neo-romanticism to
    transmit data via music of his nation's progress with the atom.

    "The most curious thing about it," says composer Philip Glass in New York
    City, "is that musicians continued to write twelve-tone music after the
    war, even though they had no idea why it was really invented. Indeed, there
    are guys who are churning out serialism to this day."

    Unlike the diatonic music, which is based on scales that have been agreed
    upon by listeners throughout the world for all of history, twelve-tone
    music treats each note of the chromatic scale with equal importance, and
    contains a built-in mathematical refusal to form chords that are pleasing
    by traditional standards. Known also as serialism, the style has never been
    accepted outside of an elite cadre of musicians, who believe it is the only
    fresh and valid direction for post-Wagnerian classical music to go.

    "Even if this is really true," states conductor Pierre Boulez, a composer
    who continues to utilize serial techniques, "the music has been vindicated
    by music critics for decades now. I see no reason to suddenly invalidate an
    art form just because of some funny business at its inception."

    "

    ( " http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa062998.htm " )

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------lo--------------------------------------------
    -
    -----------------------y------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------PTRz:
    http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/gallery.cfm
    www.muse-apprentice-guild.com
    http://www.krikri.be/poeuk.html
    http://www.google.com/search?q=lo_y
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------------
  • Max Herman | Fri Sep 6th 2002 1 a.m.
    Thank you thank you friend.

    >From: "+ lo_y. +" <loy@myrealbox.com>
    >Reply-To: "+ lo_y. +" <loy@myrealbox.com>
    >To: list@rhizome.org, syndicate@anart.no
    >Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 22:27:09 +0200
    >
    >( " iknewit " )
    >
    >"
    >
    >BERLIN, GERMANY (AP) - Recent admissions by an ex-Nazi official living in
    >Argentina have confirmed what some musicologists have suspected for years:
    >that early twentieth century German composer Anton Webern and his
    >colleagues devised the so-called "serial" technique of music to encrypt
    >messages to Nazi spies living in the United States and Britain.
    >
    >In what can surely be considered the most brazen instance of Art Imitating
    >Espionage to date, avant garde composers of the Hitler years working in
    >conjunction with designers of the Nazi Enigma code were bamboozling
    >unsuspecting audiences with their atonal thunderings while at the same time
    >passing critical scientific data back and forth between nations.
    >
    >"This calls into question the entire Second Viennese School of music,"
    >announced minimalist composer John Adams from his home in the Adirondack
    >Mountains. "Ever since I first encountered compositions by Arnold Schonberg
    >I wondered what the hell anyone ever heard in it. Now I know."
    >
    >Gunned down by an American soldier in occupied Berlin, 62 year old Anton
    >Webern's death was until now considered a tragic loss to the musical world.
    >At the time the U.S. Army reported that the killing was "a mistake", and
    >that in stepping onto the street at night to smoke a cigarette Webern was
    >violating a strict curfew rule.
    >
    >It is now known that Webern was using music to shuttle Werner Heisenberg's
    >discoveries in atomic energy to German spy Klaus Fuchs working on the
    >Manhattan atom bomb project in New Mexico. Due to the secret nature of the
    >project, which was still underway after the invasion of Berlin, Army
    >officials at the time were unable to describe the true reason for Webern's
    >murder.
    >
    >Hans Scherbius, a Nazi party official who worked with Minister of
    >Propaganda Joseph Goebbels, admitted at age eighty-seven that the Nazis
    >secretly were behind the twelve-tone technique of composition, which was
    >officially reviled to give it the outlaw status it needed to remain outside
    >of the larger public purview.
    >
    >"These pieces were nothing more than cipher for encoding messages," he
    >chuckled during an interview on his balcony in Buenos Aires. "It was only
    >because it was 'naughty' and difficult that elite audiences accepted it,
    >even championed it."
    >
    >Physicist Edward Teller, who kept a 9-foot Steinway piano in his apartment
    >at the Los Alamos laboratory, was the unwitting deliverer of Heisenburg's
    >data to Fuchs, who eagerly attended parties thrown by Teller, an
    >enthusiastic booster of Webern's music.
    >
    >Arnold Schonberg, the older musician who first devised the serial technique
    >at the request of the Weimar government of Germany, composed in America to
    >deliver bomb data stolen by Fuchs back to the Nazis, who worked feverishly
    >to design their own atomic weapons.
    >
    >As an example, Scherbius showed Associated Press reporters the score of
    >Webern's Opus 30 "Variations for Orchestra" overlaid with a cardboard
    >template. The notes formed a mathematical grid that deciphered into German
    >a comparison between the neutron release cross-sections of uranium isotopes
    >235 and 238.
    >
    >Schonberg responded with a collection of songs for soprano and woodwinds
    >that encrypted the chemical makeup of the polonium-beryllium initiator at
    >the core of the Trinity explosion.
    >
    >And in Japan, Toru Takemitsu took time out from his own neo-romanticism to
    >transmit data via music of his nation's progress with the atom.
    >
    >"The most curious thing about it," says composer Philip Glass in New York
    >City, "is that musicians continued to write twelve-tone music after the
    >war, even though they had no idea why it was really invented. Indeed, there
    >are guys who are churning out serialism to this day."
    >
    >Unlike the diatonic music, which is based on scales that have been agreed
    >upon by listeners throughout the world for all of history, twelve-tone
    >music treats each note of the chromatic scale with equal importance, and
    >contains a built-in mathematical refusal to form chords that are pleasing
    >by traditional standards. Known also as serialism, the style has never been
    >accepted outside of an elite cadre of musicians, who believe it is the only
    >fresh and valid direction for post-Wagnerian classical music to go.
    >
    >"Even if this is really true," states conductor Pierre Boulez, a composer
    >who continues to utilize serial techniques, "the music has been vindicated
    >by music critics for decades now. I see no reason to suddenly invalidate an
    >art form just because of some funny business at its inception."
    >
    >"
    >
    >( " http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa062998.htm " )
    >
    >------------------------------------------------------------
    >--------------lo--------------------------------------------
    > -
    >-----------------------y------------------------------------
    >------------------------------------------------------------
    >-------------PTRz:
    >http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/gallery.cfm
    >www.muse-apprentice-guild.com
    >http://www.krikri.be/poeuk.html
    >http://www.google.com/search?q=lo_y
    >------------------------------------------------------------
    >------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    >+ If the reader will keep me company I shall be glad.
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    _________________________________________________________________
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  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Sep 7th 2002 1 a.m.
    Eryk scribbled:

    > Brilliant comments! You are amazing!

    Right. Unlike yours which are derogatory,
    inaccurate, and condescending.
    Not a happy camper baby?
    Besides they were for Max.

    So I won't rally under G2K.
    Won't buy Eryk's Icon.

    Could this be the real reason why you two 'flame'
    people? Your posts are full of rambling,
    parroting of important literature padding,
    and cheap slogans.

    And don't tell me that I don't know you, baby.
    I know you better than you know yourself.

    Funny Eryk, but I've also passed on not only zen
    statements, but also a number of fluxus attitudes,
    and you've condescended to all.

    Could it be because you don't UNDERSTANd either
    unless there is a label easily, flatly, and
    simplistically identifying it?

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Sep 7th 2002 1 a.m.
    And by the way, Max, if you want to pick on words flatly,
    I never SAID anything about welding of man and machine.
    I WROTE (1) about welding of man _&_ (2) machine.

    Take your childish imbecility elsewhere, twit.

    And quit harrassing people for not joining G2K,
    and using language to control and manipulate people.

    You're pathetic.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • Max Herman | Sat Sep 7th 2002 1 a.m.
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/news/2002/09/06/athletics\_twins\_ap/

    \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
    Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
    http://www.hotmail.com
  • manik vauda marija manik nikola pilipovic | Sat Sep 7th 2002 1 a.m.
    There's no answer:"Do you speek English!Put Your Enlish in your own
    counry.Dick sockers!Anglosaxonians are nice on first lewel,but if push them
    they can be nasty.So,again,What do you want with your pathetic
    atitude?Respect?Pusi kurac.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    To: "Max Herman" <maxnmherman@hotmail.com>
    Cc: <list@rhizome.org>
    Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 2:23 PM

    >
    > And by the way, Max, if you want to pick on words flatly,
    > I never SAID anything about welding of man and machine.
    > I WROTE (1) about welding of man _&_ (2) machine.
    >
    > Take your childish imbecility elsewhere, twit.
    >
    > And quit harrassing people for not joining G2K,
    > and using language to control and manipulate people.
    >
    > You're pathetic.
    >
    > `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
    >
    > + If the reader will keep me company I shall be glad.
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Sep 7th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, manik wrote:

    > There's no answer:"Do you speek English!Put Your Enlish in your own
    > counry.Dick sockers!Anglosaxonians are nice on first lewel,but if push them
    > they can be nasty.So,again,What do you want with your pathetic
    > atitude?Respect?Pusi kurac.

    Yes. Off with all Anflosaxon heads.
    Total Slowenian World Domination.

    Doesn't humanity make you feel rosy?
  • ditz | Sun Sep 8th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, manik wrote:

    > Yes,I read your post.With fingers on delete.

    You heart my feelings, really.
    It's up to you whether you want to read them or not--
    I've no problem with that.
    But if you're going to make commentaries about what I write,
    yes, I do have a right to expect you to READ it first.

    Twit.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • ditz | Sun Sep 8th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, manik wrote:

    > Oh,sory Phyrro!

    I am not Phyrro.

    > Sexstus Empiricus

    Wow. You can quote Latin.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • ditz | Sun Sep 8th 2002 1 a.m.
    Such is the nature of man,
    that for your first gift--he prostrates himself;
    for your second--kisses your hand;
    for the third--fawns;
    for the fourth--just nods his head once;
    for the fifth--becomes too familiar;
    for the sixth--insults you;
    and for the seventh--sues you because he was not given enough.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • Sisavanh Houghton | Sun Sep 8th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    It took a long time for anything to come up. I got impatient and quit
  • D42 Kandinskij | Mon Sep 9th 2002 1 a.m.
    In Beuys' artistic theory and practice, however,
    language and communication often were entirely
    discrete entities. Language was one possible vehicle
    for communication; it functioned as a catalyst,
    whereas communication was more profound, elemental, and
    universal--fundamentally biological.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • D42 Kandinskij | Mon Sep 9th 2002 1 a.m.
    Logos starts the process of evolution..

    [one must be female + receive before becoming.male]

    [Max: I like it when no-one dares to argue with me.

    But if a female tells me I'm a control-freak,

    she's a psychotic nympho-maniac.]

    how does a word become matter?

    How does it become a real live person?"

    --Joseph Beuys

    'The first refusal to a person who is devoid of conscience or
    consideration will destroy the resukts of even thousands of
    good deeds formerly manifested toward him by you'.
  • brad brace | Tue Sep 10th 2002 1 a.m.
    The magic of the free market would be revealed as black magic, dependent on
    slavery and inequality in order to function. But before the pyramid scheme
    toppled, technology stepped in and put a new twist on it. It didn't replace
    human labor with machines. It used humans as machines.

    The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project >>>> since 1994 <<<<

    + + + serial ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/b/bbrace
    + + + eccentric ftp://ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace
    + + + continuous ftp:// < your site here >
    + + + hypermodern ftp://ftp.rdrop.com/pub/users/bbrace
    + + + imagery ftp://ftp.pacifier.com/pub/users/bbrace

    News://alt.binaries.pictures.12hr ://a.b.p.fine-art.misc

    Reverse Solidus: http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/
    Mirror: http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html

    { brad brace } <<<< bbrace@eskimo.com >>>> ~finger for pgp
  • Max Herman | Tue Sep 10th 2002 1 a.m.
    Damn right, Norbert Wiener's "Human Use of Human Beings," Mark Stahlman, you
    name it.

    I guess that's why they call me the working man.

    >From: { brad brace } <bbrace@wiredmag.com>
    >Reply-To: { brad brace } <bbrace@wiredmag.com>
    >To: list@rhizome.org, avant-garde@lists.village.virginia.edu
    >Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:
    >Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 12:11:30 -0800
    >
    >
    >The magic of the free market would be revealed as black magic, dependent on
    >slavery and inequality in order to function. But before the pyramid scheme
    >toppled, technology stepped in and put a new twist on it. It didn't replace
    >human labor with machines. It used humans as machines.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project >>>> since 1994 <<<<
    >
    >+ + + serial ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/b/bbrace
    >+ + + eccentric ftp://ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace
    >+ + + continuous ftp:// < your site here >
    >+ + + hypermodern ftp://ftp.rdrop.com/pub/users/bbrace
    >+ + + imagery ftp://ftp.pacifier.com/pub/users/bbrace
    >
    > News://alt.binaries.pictures.12hr ://a.b.p.fine-art.misc
    >
    > Reverse Solidus: http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/
    > Mirror: http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html
    >
    >
    > { brad brace } <<<< bbrace@eskimo.com >>>> ~finger for pgp
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >+ If the reader will keep me company I shall be glad.
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    _________________________________________________________________
    MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
    http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
  • D42 Kandinskij | Thu Sep 12th 2002 1 a.m.
    I consider immortality is the only goal worth striving for: immortality in
    Space. Man is an artifact created for the purpose of Space travel. He is
    not designed to remain in his present state anymore than a tadpole is
    designed to remain a tadpole. But man is in a state of arrested evolution.

    Time is that which ends, and man is in Time.

    The transition from Time to Space is quite as drastic as the evolutionary
    transition from water to land ... Immortality is something you have to
    work and fight for ... The Old Man of the Mountain discovered that
    immortality is possible in Space, and this is the Western Lands of the
    Egyptian Book of the Dead.

    The Western Lands is a real place. It exists, and we built it, with our
    hands and our brains. We paid for it with our blood and our lives. It's
    ours, and we're going to take it.

    (Statement on the Final Academy, Boulder, July, 1982 - William S.
    Burroughs)

    http://www.god-emil.dk/~333/cold_turkey.html

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • Max Herman | Fri Sep 13th 2002 1 a.m.
    maxherman log out

    RECENT
    POSTINGS
    ROBERTC.MORGAN
    Web is a Performance Medium
    WILL CAUGHT-ON
    Are you there God? It's me, MargaretHelen!
    Master trope chestnut how to choose a cover by Jack Bankowsky.
    9/11: art or craft?
    I HEART CHARLIE

    Let's vote on G2K

    by Unbeatable, 07.31.02 02:23 pm

    OK, is everyone as tired of Max Herman's boring self-promotion as I am?

    Let's vote on whether or not we ever want to hear about Genius 2000 again.
    Only people who've been posting regularly should be voting, otherwise Max
    could just come up with a bunch of new names and vote for his continued saty
    on our island.

    So let's hear from Biggy, controlyhorse, margrethelen, bprevidi, arthands,
    cutup, st. violentime, Joseph Franklin, thingsthatgo, so-far-away, and all
    the others on whether or not we really want to hear about G2K.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Re: Let's vote on G2K

    by Unbeatable, 07.31.02 02:24 pm

    I vote:

    NO, I DON'T EVER WANT TO HEAR ABOUT G2K AGAIN.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Re: Let's vote on G2K

    by maxherman, 07.31.02 08:13 pm

    I wouldn't object to a vote, I would actually agree never to mention certain
    words or phrases on list.

    I'd also agree to post less, say once a week; never start any threads; I
    would also agree never to argue with anyone or use insulting language or
    "personal" critiques.

    I'll just vote once, and the idea just to count votes only from regular
    posters is fully legit. I vote No, maxherman should not ever mention certain
    phrases and words or promote his own work on Talkback any more, nor should
    he argue or use "personal" criticism to illustrate his points.

    In fact, if the vote goes against me, I'll even agree to peacebly leave the
    Talkback indefinitely, if people think that's the way to go.

    Regards,

    Max Herman

    ++

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Re: Let's vote on G2K

    by Kubrick, 07.31.02 08:50 pm

    i'd be happy about not hearing about genius 2000, though i'm not really sure
    what that is.

    actually, i want to hear about your Adorno master's thesis. how come you've
    not chimed in more about the historicism/pomo thread if you'd done you're
    benjamin?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Re: Let's vote on G2K

    by Carlacam, 07.31.02 10:09 pm

    I didn't make your list of regular posters, but I'm casting my vote anyway.

    I vote NO, I never want to hear about Genius2000 again.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Re: Let's vote on G2K

    by cutup, 07.31.02 11:03 pm

    I do not object to hearing from Max Herman if he sticks to the topic and
    does not veer off into self-promotion.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Re: Let's vote on G2K

    by kittyking, 07.31.02 11:49 pm

    I've never heard of Unbeatable.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Re: Let's vote on G2K

    by BPrevidi, 08.01.02 01:04 am

    I agree with cutup, I don't mind hearing from you (Max) as long as it's
    about the topic-at-hand; but more often than not, it's about the
    topic-at-hand's relevance to G2K.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Re: Let's vote on G2K

    by thingsthatgo, 08.01.02 02:59 am

    Is this where I can get some sun screen lotion?
    I'm sorry what?
    Lynching!
    Is it total block?
    Oh, down on the fourth?
    Thank you for your time.
    Elevators! Who has the time to look at those flashing numbers !!

    (aside) If I had sun block I wouldn't need an elevator.

    Max I have never minded and when it comes to the self promotion which I got
    the first time, well I know where to find G2K, but the cut and paste doesn't
    work over here
  • Eryk Salvaggio | Sun Sep 15th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sat, 14 Sep 2002, Eryk Salvaggio wrote:

    >> the first ascii movie star.
    >
    >Right. Forget about Vuk Cosic.

    Hi Kandinskij. Just as a point of reference, Vuk Cosic never "starred" in any of his ascii movies that I am aware of, he made them [and there is a streaming "test" recording of sorts where he films himself] but to me that's not the same as specifically asking someone else to participate in the piece, although I can see where there would be some matter of debate. I use the word "star" as in the vein of actors and actresses.

    > That's not interactive?that's cheap. Here, you have three
    > choices, and these choices are dull, as dictated by
    > technology. No wait? are you being 'ironic'?

    Well the limitations of interactivity are not a new question to net.art. But I take issue with the idea that the piece is not interactive. You can arrange the color fields to your own liking. While this is not "immersive" interactivity, the user still dictates the appearance of the piece to a degree [and certainly more than one would in video art, for example] so I think it's still legitimately "interactive."

    >> The work is also in line with my use of ascii as a
    >> metaphor for information-mediated reality.
    >
    > Try that when you know what you're talking about.
    >
    >
    >> The image is abstracted down to it's barest recognizable >> features,
    >> although some people see it as abstract color fields
    >> barely comprehensible as an image [particularly on mac's] >> which is fine with me.
    >
    > Hardly 'abstracted'. And yes, surely sloppiness is 'part of > the piece'.

    I consider it abstracted because it is not [and was not intended to be] a direct documentation of reality. Since I trust your authority on words, I have taken it upon myself to look up "abstract" in the Merriam-Webster online dictionary, and I see that perhaps you are using the word in a way that I and Merriam-Webster are not familiar with. Here are the definitions of the word "abstract":

    1 a : disassociated from any specific instance <abstract entity> b : difficult to understand : ABSTRUSE <abstract problems> c : insufficiently factual : FORMAL <possessed only an abstract right>

    2 : expressing a quality apart from an object <the word poem is concrete, poetry is abstract>

    3 a : dealing with a subject in its abstract aspects : THEORETICAL <abstract science> b : IMPERSONAL, DETACHED <the abstract compassion of a surgeon -- Time>

    4 : having only intrinsic form with little or no attempt at pictorial representation or narrative content <abstract painting>

    If we consider that some of these definitions are subjective, and eliminate them from consideration, I think you might agree that definition 4 and definition 1a are both [objectively] accurate.

    While I was there, I also looked up "interactive" just to be sure. Here is the definition of that word I was working with:

    2. of, relating to, or being a two-way electronic communication system (as a telephone, cable television, or a computer) that involves a user's orders (as for information or merchandise) or responses (as to a poll)

    Hope that helps,
    -e.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Mon Sep 16th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, Eryk Salvaggio wrote:

    > Hi Kandinskij. Just as a point of reference, Vuk Cosic never "starred" in any of his ascii movies that I am aware of,

    My statement did not imply that Vuk Cosic starred in his own films.
    The people in his movies--did star in them.

    > Well the limitations of interactivity are not a new question to net.art. But I take issue with the idea that the piece is not interactive.

    It isn't. Nomore than a candy bar machine is 'interactive'.

    > You can arrange the color fields to your own liking. While this is not
    > "immersive" interactivity, the user still dictates the appearance of
    > the piece to a degree [and certainly more than one would in video art,
    > for example] so I think it's still legitimately "interactive."

    No--all of the choices are pre-coded. The user 'selects'.
    By that token museums have been interactive before the internet.
    You can walk around the exhibits in whatever way you want.

    > I consider it abstracted because it is not [and was not intended to be] a direct documentation of reality. Since I trust your authority on words, I have taken it upon myself to look up "abstract" in the Merriam-Webster online dictionary, and I see that perhaps you are using the word in a way that I and Merriam-Webster are not familiar with. Here are the definitions of the word "abstract":

    You can consider--ie, fantasize whjatever you please--and you can write
    tomes about it if you please--it's still crap.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • D42 Kandinskij | Mon Sep 16th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, -IID42 Kandinskij @27+ wrote:

    > Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:04:05 -0700 (PDT)

    > > Hi Kandinskij. Just as a point of reference, Vuk Cosic never "starred" in any of his ascii movies that I am aware of,
    >
    > My statement did not imply that Vuk Cosic starred in his own films.
    > The people in his movies--did star in them.

    Ah--an addendum: your statement that your 'friend' is the
    'first star' is what I was addressing--it's neither correct nor funny.
    Simply self-promotional propaganda. Tell me again how memetic
    [horizontal] reproduction is slavery? you're flat as a pancake.
    Or is your idea of 'evolution' your being the ONLY one producing
    memes and everyone else carrying them?

    Not obsessed with your penis at all (and there's nothing political
    or feminist behind this statement).

    Come back again when you can create, instead of merely 'reproduce'.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • Max Herman | Mon Sep 16th 2002 1 a.m.
    Wasn't Jevbratt's "Stillman Project" for the Walker interactive using just
    the three colors?

    >From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    >Reply-To: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    >To: Eryk Salvaggio <eryk@maine.rr.com>
    >CC: <list@rhizome.org>
    >Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:04:05 -0700 (PDT)
    >
    >On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, Eryk Salvaggio wrote:
    >
    > > Hi Kandinskij. Just as a point of reference, Vuk Cosic never "starred"
    >in any of his ascii movies that I am aware of,
    >
    > My statement did not imply that Vuk Cosic starred in his own films.
    > The people in his movies--did star in them.
    >
    > > Well the limitations of interactivity are not a new question to net.art.
    >But I take issue with the idea that the piece is not interactive.
    >
    > It isn't. Nomore than a candy bar machine is 'interactive'.
    >
    > > You can arrange the color fields to your own liking. While this is not
    > > "immersive" interactivity, the user still dictates the appearance of
    > > the piece to a degree [and certainly more than one would in video art,
    > > for example] so I think it's still legitimately "interactive."
    >
    > No--all of the choices are pre-coded. The user 'selects'.
    > By that token museums have been interactive before the internet.
    > You can walk around the exhibits in whatever way you want.
    >
    > > I consider it abstracted because it is not [and was not intended to be]
    >a direct documentation of reality. Since I trust your authority on words, I
    >have taken it upon myself to look up "abstract" in the Merriam-Webster
    >online dictionary, and I see that perhaps you are using the word in a way
    >that I and Merriam-Webster are not familiar with. Here are the definitions
    >of the word "abstract":
    >
    >
    > You can consider--ie, fantasize whjatever you please--and you can write
    > tomes about it if you please--it's still crap.
    >
    >
    >`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
    >
    >+ If the reader will keep me company I shall be glad.
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    _________________________________________________________________
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  • Eryk Salvaggio | Mon Sep 16th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    >
    >>
    >> My statement did not imply that Vuk Cosic starred in his own films.
    >> The people in his movies--did star in them.
    >

    Well, the original ascii movies that are on Vuk Cosic's web site are
    actually conversions of classics such as "star trek" etc; so I didn't
    think of these as "original ascii productions" in the way mine is. So
    while you can call Linda Lovelace or William Shatner "the first ascii
    movie stars" I guess you'd be right, it's all up to interpretation. But
    Jessica Johnson is, as far as I know, the first person filmed directly
    for the sake of an ascii-based film. Anyway, it's not really the point
    of the piece, so I guess we can agree to disagree.

    >> > Well the limitations of interactivity are not a new question to
    >> net.art. But I take issue with the idea that the piece is not
    >> interactive.
    >>
    >> It isn't. Nomore than a candy bar machine is 'interactive'.
    >

    But a candy bar machine is interactive. In fact, vending machine art has
    some serious potential I think. I'm not kidding, either.

    >> No--all of the choices are pre-coded. The user 'selects'.
    >> By that token museums have been interactive before the internet.
    >> You can walk around the exhibits in whatever way you want.
    >

    Maybe if you suggested some work that you consider "truly" interactive I
    would be able to understand you better? The way I see it, if one is
    staying with basic html the entire idea of "interaction" is going to be
    limited, but this is one of the interesting aspects of the fundamental
    medium to me.

    >> You can consider--ie, fantasize whjatever you please--and you can
    >> write
    >> tomes about it if you please--it's still crap.
    >

    Sorry you feel that way, Kandinskij. I've got a lot of positive reviews
    about it so far, and yours has been the only negative reaction to it I
    have seen. But then again, I'm hardly surprised. :)

    Cheers,
    -e.
  • Mashica | Mon Sep 16th 2002 1 a.m.
    Don poo hoo them candy-bar machine.
    Gitcher mashica art products from the bellamatic!

    [ www.bellamatic.com ]
    [ www.mashica.com/certification/certification/oiltanks.asp ]

    Get also,
    [ www.artomat.org ]

    Love,
    mashica

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Eryk Salvaggio
    To: list@rhizome.org
    Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:01 PM
    Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:

    > Well the limitations of interactivity are not a new question to net=
    .art. But I take issue with the idea that the piece is not interactive.

    It isn't. Nomore than a candy bar machine is 'interactive'.

    But a candy bar machine is interactive. In fact, vending machine art has =
    some serious potential I think. I'm not kidding, either.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Mon Sep 16th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Max Herman wrote:

    > Wasn't Jevbratt's "Stillman Project" for the Walker interactive using just
    > the three colors?

    And so? The two are not related.
    Just because one monkey did something stupid,
    it doesn't mean any sort of justification.

    Nor does it change the fact that Eryk is simply
    being opportunist.

    Jevbratt is Jevbratt. Eryk is Eryk.

    Learn to discriminate reality.

    Totalitarianism frequently, if not necessarily, entails depersonalisation.
    In this case 'society' is not man written large as Plato said, in fact,
    with totalitarianism, man and society are written very small.

    The population's sense of individuality is stolen. A mass of people
    simply becomes a statistic of labour availability rather than

    a living,

    breathing,

    unique collection of

    autonomous individuals.

    The leader makes the decisions the masses follow these dictums.
    [cf. G2K, Christopher Fahey, Eryk Salvaggio]

    *In dreams begins responsibility*. W. B. Yeats.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • D42 Kandinskij | Mon Sep 16th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Eryk Salvaggio wrote:

    > Well, the original ascii movies that are on Vuk Cosic's web site are
    > actually conversions of classics such as "star trek" etc; so I didn't
    > think of these as "original ascii productions" in the way mine is. So
    > while you can call Linda Lovelace or William Shatner "the first ascii
    > movie stars" I guess you'd be right, it's all up to interpretation.

    No, it isn't. But I don't feel like explaining.

    > Jessica Johnson is, as far as I know,

    As far as I know is not an excuse.

    > the first person filmed directly for the sake of an ascii-based film.

    Bollocks. People were doing it on IRC 5 years ago quite a bit,
    and 10 years ago too--just because they were 'excited' about it
    and not because they were interested in 'art careers'.

    It's sickening how now that there is money thrown by museums
    and galleries into these things leeches like you who KNOW better
    (and you do--you're some naive academic guy who's lived locked
    in a room in the past 5 years not knowing what goes on net-wise)
    declare themselves the 'first' and 'original' and attempt to package
    'street culture' in net.theory [cf. Max Herman attempting to whore out
    the sub-cultures associated with bands into museums--when the people
    themselves never cared to be used for such purposes] and make themselves
    careers out of it.

    > Anyway, it's not really the point of the piece,

    Oh right. *Slight* what you wrote to lessen the gravity of what you do.
    Try to pass that one elsewhere. If it's not important why put it
    in the 'ad-space' adjunct to the title of the piece?
    Because you know it's an ad-space, and you know it 'hooks' attention.

    > so I guess we can agree to disagree.

    No 'we' can't. I am not you, nor do you speak for me.
    What you wrote is blatant falsifying + distorting self-promotional
    propaganda. This is what +I+ agree.

    > But a candy bar machine is interactive. In fact, vending machine art has
    > some serious potential I think. I'm not kidding, either.

    I have little doubts. Your idiocy is limitless.

    > Maybe if you suggested some work that you consider "truly" interactive I
    > would be able to understand you better?

    I could, and have. But in order to see it, you must evolve individually.
    As you are, I might as well read you the 'hidden sutras'--and you'll
    spit back worthless + flat 'opinions.'

    > The way I see it, if one is
    > staying with basic html the entire idea of "interaction" is going to be
    > limited, but this is one of the interesting aspects of the fundamental
    > medium to me.

    Incorrect. Interactivity is not dependent on technological
    aspects.

    > Sorry you feel that way, Kandinskij.

    I don't 'feel' that way, Eryk. It's how it is.

    > I've got a lot of positive reviews about it so far,

    And that's what really_ determines the value of what you do, yes?

    > and yours has been the only negative reaction to it I have seen.

    It's neither 'reaction' nor 'negative'.
    Take your plus minus knee-jerk idiocy elsewhere.

    You can 'add' as many pluses as you care to--the only thing you do
    is delude yourself + others. that'd be how you make the world a better
    place, n'est pas? Or is it that you're only interested in
    self-aggrandizement? Sounds closer to reality, baby.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • josh zeidner | Mon Sep 16th 2002 1 a.m.
    why preach in a whorehouse?

    --- "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+"
    <death@zaphod.terminal.org> wrote:
    > On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Eryk Salvaggio wrote:
    >
    > > Well, the original ascii movies that are on Vuk
    > Cosic's web site are
    > > actually conversions of classics such as "star
    > trek" etc; so I didn't
    > > think of these as "original ascii productions" in
    > the way mine is. So
    > > while you can call Linda Lovelace or William
    > Shatner "the first ascii
    > > movie stars" I guess you'd be right, it's all up
    > to interpretation.
    >
    > No, it isn't. But I don't feel like explaining.
    >
    > > Jessica Johnson is, as far as I know,
    >
    > As far as I know is not an excuse.
    >
    > > the first person filmed directly for the sake of
    > an ascii-based film.
    >
    > Bollocks. People were doing it on IRC 5 years ago
    > quite a bit,
    > and 10 years ago too--just because they were
    > 'excited' about it
    > and not because they were interested in 'art
    > careers'.
    >
    > It's sickening how now that there is money thrown
    > by museums
    > and galleries into these things leeches like you
    > who KNOW better
    > (and you do--you're some naive academic guy who's
    > lived locked
    > in a room in the past 5 years not knowing what
    > goes on net-wise)
    > declare themselves the 'first' and 'original' and
    > attempt to package
    > 'street culture' in net.theory [cf. Max Herman
    > attempting to whore out
    > the sub-cultures associated with bands into
    > museums--when the people
    > themselves never cared to be used for such
    > purposes] and make themselves
    > careers out of it.
    >
    > > Anyway, it's not really the point of the piece,
    >
    > Oh right. *Slight* what you wrote to lessen the
    > gravity of what you do.
    > Try to pass that one elsewhere. If it's not
    > important why put it
    > in the 'ad-space' adjunct to the title of the
    > piece?
    > Because you know it's an ad-space, and you know it
    > 'hooks' attention.
    >
    > > so I guess we can agree to disagree.
    >
    > No 'we' can't. I am not you, nor do you speak for
    > me.
    > What you wrote is blatant falsifying + distorting
    > self-promotional
    > propaganda. This is what +I+ agree.
    >
    > > But a candy bar machine is interactive. In fact,
    > vending machine art has
    > > some serious potential I think. I'm not kidding,
    > either.
    >
    > I have little doubts. Your idiocy is limitless.
    >
    > > Maybe if you suggested some work that you consider
    > "truly" interactive I
    > > would be able to understand you better?
    >
    > I could, and have. But in order to see it, you
    > must evolve individually.
    > As you are, I might as well read you the 'hidden
    > sutras'--and you'll
    > spit back worthless + flat 'opinions.'
    >
    > > The way I see it, if one is
    > > staying with basic html the entire idea of
    > "interaction" is going to be
    > > limited, but this is one of the interesting
    > aspects of the fundamental
    > > medium to me.
    >
    > Incorrect. Interactivity is not dependent on
    > technological
    > aspects.
    >
    > > Sorry you feel that way, Kandinskij.
    >
    > I don't 'feel' that way, Eryk. It's how it is.
    >
    > > I've got a lot of positive reviews about it so
    > far,
    >
    > And that's what really_ determines the value of
    > what you do, yes?
    >
    >
    > > and yours has been the only negative reaction to
    > it I have seen.
    >
    > It's neither 'reaction' nor 'negative'.
    > Take your plus minus knee-jerk idiocy elsewhere.
    >
    > You can 'add' as many pluses as you care to--the
    > only thing you do
    > is delude yourself + others. that'd be how you
    > make the world a better
    > place, n'est pas? Or is it that you're only
    > interested in
    > self-aggrandizement? Sounds closer to reality,
    > baby.
    >
    >
    > `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
    >
    > + If the reader will keep me company I shall be
    > glad.
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
    > out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at
    http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    __________________________________________________
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  • Max Herman | Mon Sep 16th 2002 1 a.m.
    >From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    >To: Max Herman <maxnmherman@hotmail.com>
    >CC: <eryk@maine.rr.com>, <thingist@bbs.thing.net>, <list@rhizome.org>
    >Subject: Re: RHIZOME\_RAW: Re:
    >Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:07:51 -0700 (PDT)
    >
    >On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Max Herman wrote:
    >
    > > Wasn't Jevbratt's "Stillman Project" for the Walker interactive using
    >just
    > > the three colors?
    >
    > And so? The two are not related.
    > Just because one monkey did something stupid,
    > it doesn't mean any sort of justification.

    This is Delmore Schwartz, who was Lou Reed's English Prof at Syracuse, and
    took photos of him in female underwear, and told him to be a great writer:
    "In Dreams Begin Responsibilities," a very G2K story.

    >*In dreams begins responsibility*. W. B. Yeats.
    >
    > `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42

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  • Christopher Fahey | Mon Sep 16th 2002 1 a.m.
    Eryk,

    While I am glad to see you back on the list I am sorry to see you being
    trapped again by Mr. Death's predictable antics. I suggest (actually, I
    request) that you and everyone else just stop replying to him. He has
    nothing of value to say - unless you are entertained by his insulting
    every thing everyone else does and arguing the opposite of what anyone
    says.

    Honestly, it really sucks to have to read any words he writes, and it
    sucks to see the rest of you replying to him all the time, as if there
    is any need to defend yourselves against his blind rage. Myself, I will
    never knowingly reply to Death again.

    -Cf

    [christopher eli fahey]
    art: http://www.graphpaper.com <http://www.graphpaper.com/>
    sci: http://www.askrom.com <http://www.askrom.com/>
    biz: http://www.behaviordesign.com <http://www.behaviordesign.com/>

    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-list@rhizome.org [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org] On Behalf
    Of Eryk Salvaggio
    Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 1:01 PM
    To: list@rhizome.org
    Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:

    My statement did not imply that Vuk Cosic starred in his own films.
    The people in his movies--did star in them.

    Well, the original ascii movies that are on Vuk Cosic's web site are
    actually conversions of classics such as "star trek" etc; so I didn't
    think of these as "original ascii productions" in the way mine is. So
    while you can call Linda Lovelace or William Shatner "the first ascii
    movie stars" I guess you'd be right, it's all up to interpretation. But
    Jessica Johnson is, as far as I know, the first person filmed directly
    for the sake of an ascii-based film. Anyway, it's not really the point
    of the piece, so I guess we can agree to disagree.

    > Well the limitations of interactivity are not a new question to
    net.art. But I take issue with the idea that the piece is not
    interactive.

    It isn't. Nomore than a candy bar machine is 'interactive'.

    But a candy bar machine is interactive. In fact, vending machine art has
    some serious potential I think. I'm not kidding, either.

    No--all of the choices are pre-coded. The user 'selects'.
    By that token museums have been interactive before the internet.
    You can walk around the exhibits in whatever way you want.

    Maybe if you suggested some work that you consider "truly" interactive I
    would be able to understand you better? The way I see it, if one is
    staying with basic html the entire idea of "interaction" is going to be
    limited, but this is one of the interesting aspects of the fundamental
    medium to me.

    You can consider--ie, fantasize whjatever you please--and you can
    write
    tomes about it if you please--it's still crap.

    Sorry you feel that way, Kandinskij. I've got a lot of positive reviews
    about it so far, and yours has been the only negative reaction to it I
    have seen. But then again, I'm hardly surprised. :)

    Cheers,
    -e.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Tue Sep 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, josh zeidner wrote:

    > why preach in a whorehouse?

    Dear Josh--when will you stop attempting to direct my actions
    under the guise of understanding what I am doing? I am not
    preaching--nor do i intend to make queens out of whores.

    So now that weve got that cleared: what is it that you_
    want?
  • D42 Kandinskij | Tue Sep 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Max Herman wrote:

    > This is Delmore Schwartz, who was Lou Reed's English Prof at Syracuse, and
    > took photos of him in female underwear, and told him to be a great writer:
    > "In Dreams Begin Responsibilities," a very G2K story.

    No: it's simply gibberish out of Max Herman's 'mouth'.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Tue Sep 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    I love Ivan's 'private' missives.

    On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Ivan Pope wrote:

    > Wasilly,

    Who? I am not my grandfather.

    > Well, I do love your frantic involvement

    There is nothing 'frantic' in my involvement.

    > in this pathetic little list.

    Which pathetic little list, dear?

    > I mean, to you everyone on it is an idiot who knows nothing.

    No, this is not the case--and your pathetic misinterpretation of what
    you fail tosee is your own problem.

    > You, on the other hand, know everything.

    Surely. But I doubt your idea of knowledge approaches my understanding
    of it.

    > You have no concept of the give and take.

    You are completely and absolutely 100% right. The 'give and take' is a
    form of energy drain. The real 'giving' is not about 'give and take'.

    > You have no acceptance that the world is made up of a bit of this
    > and a bit of that.

    Nope--the 'world' is not made up of bits of this and bits of that--
    this is how the brain butchers reality.

    > Nope, your worldview is fascist - you know everything.

    You're an idiot: do you know what fascism is?
    There is nothing fascist about knowing 'everything'.

    > Everyone else is driven by their own self promoting ego.

    This is absolutely NOTHINg that I have said.
    The individuals observed are--including yourself.
    I've never made--nor will make statements about 'everybody'
    as such statements are indeed fascist in the sense propre of
    the word.

    > You alone do not suffer from this

    I don't--does that bother you? can't sleep in your shit so comfortably?
    I never made any claims of being alone--twit.

    > (well, except when you tell us that your work was bought by
    > some top european architects for their office)

    And this hasn't got anything to do with ego. You're one of the pathetic
    morons who fancy an ego-less person being a weak dishrag who doesn't
    do anything, doesn't appear in public, and certainly doesn't succeed
    in any affair--n'est pas?

    You're not qualified to judge people's egoes before you've dealt with
    your own. You pathetic opinions are-worthless. Total value: zero.

    > What I do not understand is why you bother.

    Very good. Who do you think you are that my actions must be
    justifiable to you?

    > Surely you have risen into the light by now and do not need to spend your wise words berating us mere
    > mortals.

    Don't attempt to pass judgements on things which you are FAR from
    understanding. No wait--this one here is going to 'judge'
    enlightenment.

    > My view is

    100% worthless.

    > that you are either a sad sick person

    I am neither 'sad' nor 'sick'--but rather you are--as can be evidenced
    by your pathological mechanically-looped attempts at a. feeding b.
    debasement.

    > or you are, as I originally suggested, a bot - whether you know it or not.

    No, dear--that's you. Whether you know it or not.
    Spare us your 'snif' concern--condescending attempts to feed.
    Tell us again about your 'poor insane best friend' whom you keep
    denying--again and again.

    And again, anda gain--not-addressing anything of what I write--
    just bland + lame attempts at debasement (cf. Burroughs + vampirism).

    later loser.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Tue Sep 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Christopher Fahey [askrom] wrote:

    > While I am glad to see you back on the list I am sorry to see you being
    > trapped again by Mr. Death's predictable antics.

    There is nothing 'predictable' nor any 'antics'.
    Your 'false concern' which is little but coercion attempt
    is laughable. watch out, you might offer to lick his wounds.

    > I suggest (actually, I
    > request) that you and everyone else just stop replying to him.

    Absolutely! Everyone do as Chris fahey says.

    > He has nothing of value to say -

    Oh but I do, love. And that's not up to you to determine.
    The value of what I do is self-evident, and not a matter
    of opinions, thoughts or 'art criticism'.

    > unless you are entertained by his insulting

    I do not insult. If someone chooses to 'feel' insulted because of
    disliking what I say-- that's his/her problem.

    > every thing everyone else does and arguing the opposite of what anyone
    > says

    This is not what I do. Avoid 'translating' and 'explaining' my actions.
    Funny how you won't inter-ACT directly--but sneakily behind my back
    by 'explaining' what I do. Oh la la. Shithead.

    > Honestly, it really sucks to have to read any words he writes,

    rawr. Living, breathing, autonomous intelligence sucks! Kill, kill,
    kill! Dear, beloved, Christopher Fahey--go jump from a cliff.

    > and it
    > sucks to see the rest of you replying to him all the time,

    Absolutely. It must suck people doing things you don't want them to do.

    > as if there
    > is any need to defend yourselves against his blind rage.

    There is no 'blind rage' here besides your Herr fahey.
    Don't ascribe your internal malfunctions to me.

    > Myself, I will never knowingly reply to Death again.

    Ye, you will resort to back-handed passive-aggressiveness.
    Do me a favor shithead--if you don't want to talk to me,
    don't do it behind my back.

    Later.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Tue Sep 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Ivan Pope wrote:

    > I reply just to you, but your ego demands that you respond to the whole
    > list.

    No dear. It is not my ego--neither are you qualified to judge that.

    > It is clear that you get your kicks arguing in public.

    No, baby--what you are doing is a standard 'overly-familiar' behavior.
    You are not my friend--I've no desire to communicate with you privately,
    no less with possible idiotic 'he said this and that privately'
    situations. Ypu've got a long way to go before deserving a private
    e-mail. In net.terms--you haven't been invited to my house.
    Don't invite yourself in. I have all right to throw you out.

    > You think you are egoless,

    I don't 'think' that I am. I am. Nor are you qualified to judge that.

    > but you do so love your little soapbox.

    No, I don't. There is no 'soapbox'. Spare me your projections.

    > > And this hasn't got anything to do with ego.
    > >
    > No, no, of course not. There, there.

    And your idiotic condescension.

    > > No, dear--that's you. Whether you know it or not.
    >
    > Yah, boo, sucks. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.

    Sorry--I never wrote, said. or implied anything of the sort.
    Funny--again you skip all I write, and post idiotic
    bully posturing instead.

    > Whats up? Run out of insults?

    I don't insult, love. Stomp your foot as much as you please,
    act like an imbecilic idiot as well (as above)--but I am neither
    going to start insulting you, nor instantaneously grow an ego.

    > You do have a habit of throwing my words back at me like a schoolchild.

    No, I don't. Until you've dealt with your ego, all your words are about
    yourself. Additionally, you're incapable of perceiving reality--be it
    me, or anyone else. Nothing schoolchildish in my pointing this out--
    and refusing your pathetic attempts to force-imprint your 'opinions'.

    Go lock yourself in your artist stuidio and beat yourself up,
    and spare me your idiocy and pathetic bully behavior.

    Watch out--Ivan Pope's toe has been stepped on.
    Insta-ego specialist--I mean murderer.
  • Tatsuko Muraoka | Tue Sep 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    It hurts me to read this. I almost want to surrender to the senseless
    posturing and believe that this will actually improve the situation. It must
    if that's what people consistently decide to do with their time. Just one
    thing though: Reality doesn't lie. People lie to themselves about reality.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    To: <list@rhizome.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 5:28 PM

    >
    > On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Ivan Pope wrote:
    >
    > > I reply just to you, but your ego demands that you respond to the whole
    > > list.
    >
    > No dear. It is not my ego--neither are you qualified to judge that.
    >
    > > It is clear that you get your kicks arguing in public.
    >
    > No, baby--what you are doing is a standard 'overly-familiar' behavior.
    > You are not my friend--I've no desire to communicate with you privately,
    > no less with possible idiotic 'he said this and that privately'
    > situations. Ypu've got a long way to go before deserving a private
    > e-mail. In net.terms--you haven't been invited to my house.
    > Don't invite yourself in. I have all right to throw you out.
    >
    > > You think you are egoless,
    >
    > I don't 'think' that I am. I am. Nor are you qualified to judge that.
    >
    > > but you do so love your little soapbox.
    >
    > No, I don't. There is no 'soapbox'. Spare me your projections.
    >
    > > > And this hasn't got anything to do with ego.
    > > >
    > > No, no, of course not. There, there.
    >
    > And your idiotic condescension.
    >
    > > > No, dear--that's you. Whether you know it or not.
    > >
    > > Yah, boo, sucks. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.
    >
    > Sorry--I never wrote, said. or implied anything of the sort.
    > Funny--again you skip all I write, and post idiotic
    > bully posturing instead.
    >
    > > Whats up? Run out of insults?
    >
    > I don't insult, love. Stomp your foot as much as you please,
    > act like an imbecilic idiot as well (as above)--but I am neither
    > going to start insulting you, nor instantaneously grow an ego.
    >
    > > You do have a habit of throwing my words back at me like a schoolchild.
    >
    > No, I don't. Until you've dealt with your ego, all your words are about
    > yourself. Additionally, you're incapable of perceiving reality--be it
    > me, or anyone else. Nothing schoolchildish in my pointing this out--
    > and refusing your pathetic attempts to force-imprint your 'opinions'.
    >
    > Go lock yourself in your artist stuidio and beat yourself up,
    > and spare me your idiocy and pathetic bully behavior.
    >
    > Watch out--Ivan Pope's toe has been stepped on.
    > Insta-ego specialist--I mean murderer.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > + If the reader will keep me company I shall be glad.
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
  • Tatsuko Muraoka | Tue Sep 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    This correspondence is painful to read.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    To: <list@rhizome.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 5:28 PM

    >
    > On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Ivan Pope wrote:
    >
    > > I reply just to you, but your ego demands that you respond to the whole
    > > list.
    >
    > No dear. It is not my ego--neither are you qualified to judge that.
    >
    > > It is clear that you get your kicks arguing in public.
    >
    > No, baby--what you are doing is a standard 'overly-familiar' behavior.
    > You are not my friend--I've no desire to communicate with you privately,
    > no less with possible idiotic 'he said this and that privately'
    > situations. Ypu've got a long way to go before deserving a private
    > e-mail. In net.terms--you haven't been invited to my house.
    > Don't invite yourself in. I have all right to throw you out.
    >
    > > You think you are egoless,
    >
    > I don't 'think' that I am. I am. Nor are you qualified to judge that.
    >
    > > but you do so love your little soapbox.
    >
    > No, I don't. There is no 'soapbox'. Spare me your projections.
    >
    > > > And this hasn't got anything to do with ego.
    > > >
    > > No, no, of course not. There, there.
    >
    > And your idiotic condescension.
    >
    > > > No, dear--that's you. Whether you know it or not.
    > >
    > > Yah, boo, sucks. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.
    >
    > Sorry--I never wrote, said. or implied anything of the sort.
    > Funny--again you skip all I write, and post idiotic
    > bully posturing instead.
    >
    > > Whats up? Run out of insults?
    >
    > I don't insult, love. Stomp your foot as much as you please,
    > act like an imbecilic idiot as well (as above)--but I am neither
    > going to start insulting you, nor instantaneously grow an ego.
    >
    > > You do have a habit of throwing my words back at me like a schoolchild.
    >
    > No, I don't. Until you've dealt with your ego, all your words are about
    > yourself. Additionally, you're incapable of perceiving reality--be it
    > me, or anyone else. Nothing schoolchildish in my pointing this out--
    > and refusing your pathetic attempts to force-imprint your 'opinions'.
    >
    > Go lock yourself in your artist stuidio and beat yourself up,
    > and spare me your idiocy and pathetic bully behavior.
    >
    > Watch out--Ivan Pope's toe has been stepped on.
    > Insta-ego specialist--I mean murderer.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > + If the reader will keep me company I shall be glad.
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
  • Andrey Rusin | Wed Sep 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    Forget my e-mail
  • D42 Kandinskij | Wed Sep 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, rusin wrote:

    > Forget my e-mail

    And your telephone number?
  • D42 Kandinskij | Wed Sep 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, josh zeidner wrote:

    > well, if you make public statements you should be
    > prepared to have them heard by the public. if you do
    > not want people to comment on what you are doing, then
    > communicate privately. it is not a hard concept to
    > grasp.

    No, josh. This is complete nonsense 1.) and 2.)
    you're avoiding what I wrote with a generality.
    Try again. People couldn't 'comment' if they tried.
    1.) there is no such thing as 'people'
    2.) individuals replying so far have been unable of 'commenting'

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • D42 Kandinskij | Wed Sep 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Matthew Bradwell wrote:

    > This correspondence is painful to read.

    It is isn't it? But then again, most conversations are
    masked similarity of the sort, so is most contemporary art,
    so is the way humans treat each other. Nevermind the 'bashing'
    of 'children' when they in fact have none of the 'adult'
    pre-sets to 'ignore' this stuff.

    Walk out on the street and pick any two human beings in any
    environment: their interaction consists largely of two
    (brain)-driven sexual automatons damaging each other.

    Nevermind that the ones 'respected' are those who are the
    biggest 'bullies' in that game; never-mind that most_ of
    contemporary art as it is is blowing up and support of
    exactly those 'bullies'.

    But if this is brought out in public in all its ugliness,
    little doubt it's all because the person painting the picture
    is 'abusive'. And the reaction? Kill the perpetrator, instead of
    looking at the problem in oneself.

    Disclaimer: this is not 'all' I am doing (just because I'm sure
    some idiot will have it all figured out from the above and attempt
    to crucify me over my words).

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • D42 Kandinskij | Wed Sep 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Matthew Bradwell wrote:

    > It hurts me to read this. I almost want to surrender to the senseless
    > posturing and believe that this will actually improve the situation.
    > It must if that's what people consistently decide to do with their time.
    > Just one thing though: Reality doesn't lie. People lie to themselves
    > about reality.

    Marvellous. Marvellous. Marvellous.
    My hat's off to this person.

    Consider the implications: people who lie to themselves +
    brutishly enforce those lies on others.
    Consider the implications: such brutes are regaled as intelligent
    + powerful. 'Role' models.

    Das uber.mode.der.behavior+those who refuse it or are attempting
    to leave said mode behind are murdered.

    Hence my 'aid' which is protection + discouragement of
    self-destructive impulses under said 'outside' pressure.

    However, most choose the 'easy' path of the bully.
    Sanctioned by 'grants'. Funds. Universities, etc.
    Abr. mostly museums and uber.modern.festivals & galleries.

    Distrubution of media which aims to flatten conscious impulses.

    Recent victims: Eryk Salvaggio. Max G2K. Alex Slab. NN.
    Adrian Ward. Young + crushed + delectably consumed, publicly.

    The crowd always enjoys feeding + spectacle.

    Unsalvageable debris.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Wed Sep 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    ..the idea that someone may be able to read a language and therefore
    can interpret its data properly is a specious argument, because the
    one certainly does not guarantee the other.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • Tatsuko Muraoka | Wed Sep 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    So you're saying that you're hurt by the art community as an entity
    functions as far as the abuse behavior that results from selfishness, and
    you say that the reason you do this as well is becuase you are doing
    something productive also. To me, this means that you are using your
    productivity in the art world as a justification for doing something you,
    ulitimately, know you don't agree with.

    If I am wrong, please correct me. This is just my interpretation of what you
    said.

    e

    > On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Matthew Bradwell wrote:
    >
    > > This correspondence is painful to read.
    >
    > It is isn't it? But then again, most conversations are
    > masked similarity of the sort, so is most contemporary art,
    > so is the way humans treat each other. Nevermind the 'bashing'
    > of 'children' when they in fact have none of the 'adult'
    > pre-sets to 'ignore' this stuff.
    >
    > Walk out on the street and pick any two human beings in any
    > environment: their interaction consists largely of two
    > (brain)-driven sexual automatons damaging each other.
    >
    > Nevermind that the ones 'respected' are those who are the
    > biggest 'bullies' in that game; never-mind that most_ of
    > contemporary art as it is is blowing up and support of
    > exactly those 'bullies'.
    >
    > But if this is brought out in public in all its ugliness,
    > little doubt it's all because the person painting the picture
    > is 'abusive'. And the reaction? Kill the perpetrator, instead of
    > looking at the problem in oneself.
    >
    > Disclaimer: this is not 'all' I am doing (just because I'm sure
    > some idiot will have it all figured out from the above and attempt
    > to crucify me over my words).
    >
    > `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
    >
  • Tatsuko Muraoka | Wed Sep 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    I definitely agree with this list. However I do not agree that they are
    truly victims. Victims are those you capitulate to what has been enforced
    upon them.

    I used to understand this line of thinking, what with the consequences of
    pain, humiliation, death, etc.

    But if death will come anyway, why should we allow people to use it against
    us?

    > Recent victims: Eryk Salvaggio. Max G2K. Alex Slab. NN.
    > Adrian Ward. Young + crushed + delectably consumed, publicly.
    >
    > The crowd always enjoys feeding + spectacle.
  • Piero Deggiovanni | Thu Sep 19th 2002 1 a.m.
    ------=\_NextPart\_001\_0002\_01C2600C.F313F280
    Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    ACCADEMIA DI BELLE ARTI

    B O L O G N A

    I S T I T U T O D I P R O G E T T A Z I O N E

    COMUNICATO STAMPA

    MOSTRA: Digit - Art. Opere di Vittoria Chierici, Paolo Fabiani,
    Fabio Polvani

    SEDE: Bologna, Accademia di Belle Arti, Galleria Guidi

    PERIODO: 1 - 15 ottobre 2002

    INAUGURAZIONE: martedi 1 ottobre 2002 ore 17.00

    L
  • terrence kosick | Thu Sep 19th 2002 1 a.m.
    Terrence writes;

    Improperly or not anyone can interpret informational data or language in
    anyway. whether or not they can utilize the particular information given is
    another thing, and even if they can but don't then there lies the
    information, for some, forever, locked in its form. Take marc Lafias pos;
    One can read and interpret but as experience dictates just how it is
    interpreted depends on various sets of experiences with similar information.
    Say in the subset of knowledge that a student or practitioner of film may
    bring to its reading will determine how the information is interpreted. If
    it brings fourth an active response, say a critical one, that is, for its
    sake, well composed, I supposes that interpretation could be, upon
    examination, of some convention that is agreeable as a proper if indeed an
    enlightening interpretation. I can agree however that interpretations are
    rarely challenged and there are no guaranties in any reading. However if the
    information is interpreted correctly, even erroneously, or even against
    convention and actively utilised in some form then that interpretation of
    the language form is rightly active and judged in its own right and deserved
    of some merit.

    best

    T.

    >From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    >Reply-To: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    >To: <list@rhizome.org>
    >CC: <thingist@BBS.THING.NET>
    >Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:56:25 -0700 (PDT)
    >
    >
    > ..the idea that someone may be able to read a language and therefore
    >can interpret its data properly is a specious argument, because the
    >one certainly does not guarantee the other.
    >
    >`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
    >
    >
    >+ left sock first, pompe dans le cul afterwards
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    _________________________________________________________________
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  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    > Terrence writes;
    >
    > Improperly or not anyone can interpret informational data or language in
    > anyway.

    Nein. Interpretation does not happen in the brain.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • clement Thomas | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    well,
    1-/ push your finger into your nose
    2-/ if you can touch the brain and then it makes you fart
    3-/ so it happens in the brain II.

    --
    OG
    -/ surgery is no use in this case ! /-

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    To: "Terrence Kosick" <terrencekosick@hotmail.com>
    Cc: <list@rhizome.org>; <thingist@bbs.thing.net>
    Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 3:53 PM
    Subject: [thingist] Re:

    > > Terrence writes;
    > >
    > > Improperly or not anyone can interpret informational data or language
    in
    > > anyway.
    >
    > Nein. Interpretation does not happen in the brain.
    >
    > `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • clement Thomas | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    well,
    according to the brain surgery specialists on both rhizoma and thinigst
    lists,
    the case is not helpless.

    should it induce spirituality into art ?
    this we have to ask kandinskij.

    --
    OG
    -/ brain competance and winding illusions are not cheap ! /-

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Roberto Cabot" <roberto@mediamorphose.org>
    To: <thingist@bbs.thing.net>; <thingist@bbs.thing.net>
    Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 4:38 PM
    Subject: Re: [thingist] Re:

    > ... i heard of this phenomenom. fingering some brain zones through the
    nose holes develops
    > the hability to produce intestinal gas. not sure if we are really facing a
    case of "brain
    > fart" however... there is controversy among specialists...
    >
    > (gee, this is getting really dumb...)
    >
    > best
    >
    > r
    >
    > Am 20.09.2002 16:20:48, schrieb Keith Sanborn <mrzero@PANIX.COM>:
    >
    > >Are you speaking of a "brain fart" or an actual fart induced by
    > >digital palpitation of the brain?
    > >
    > >>well,
    > >>1-/ push your finger into your nose
    > >>2-/ if you can touch the brain and then it makes you fart
    > >>3-/ so it happens in the brain II.
    > >>
    > >>--
    > >>OG
    > >>-/ surgery is no use in this case ! /-
    > >>
    > >>----- Original Message -----
    > >>From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    > >>To: "Terrence Kosick" <terrencekosick@hotmail.com>
    > >>Cc: <list@rhizome.org>; <thingist@bbs.thing.net>
    > >>Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 3:53 PM
    > >>Subject: [thingist] Re:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>> > Terrence writes;
    > >>> >
    > >>> > Improperly or not anyone can interpret informational data or
    language
    > >>in
    > >>> > anyway.
    > >>>
    > >>> Nein. Interpretation does not happen in the brain.
    > >>>
    > >>> `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
    > >>
    > >>--------------------------------------------------------------------
    > >>t h i n g i s t
    > >>message by "clement Thomas" <ctgr@free.fr>
    > >>archive at http://bbs.thing.net
    > >>info: send email to majordomo@bbs.thing.net
    > >>and write "info thingist" in the message body
    > >>--------------------------------------------------------------------
    > >
    > >--------------------------------------------------------------------
    > >t h i n g i s t
    > >message by Keith Sanborn <mrzero@panix.com>
    > >archive at http://bbs.thing.net
    > >info: send email to majordomo@bbs.thing.net
    > >and write "info thingist" in the message body
    > >--------------------------------------------------------------------
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
    > t h i n g i s t
    > message by Roberto Cabot <roberto@mediamorphose.org>
    > archive at http://bbs.thing.net
    > info: send email to majordomo@bbs.thing.net
    > and write "info thingist" in the message body
    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
  • Tatsuko Muraoka | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    I was very hurt by NN. Intimidated. NN is a male. Maybe one day he'll admit=
    this.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Matthew Bradwell wrote:

    > So you're saying that you're hurt

    No, I am not.

    > by the art community as an entity functions as far as the abuse behavior
    > that results from selfishness,

    Nothing so simplistically childish has ever motivated any part of my
    being.

    > you say that the reason you do this as well is becuase you are doing
    > something productive also.

    Do what?

    > To me, this means that you are using your
    > productivity in the art world as a justification for doing something you,
    > ulitimately, know you don't agree with.

    No. You're mispercieving. I am not in the 'art world'.
    The 'art world' is a chimera which exists in the brains of people
    one interacts with. The 'art world' does not exist.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Matthew Bradwell wrote:

    > I was very hurt by NN.

    Why?

    > Intimidated.

    By what?

    > NN is a male. Maybe one day he'll admit this.

    How do you know? What is a 'male'?

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
    trying to find the other mail
  • Tatsuko Muraoka | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    > > I was very hurt by NN.
    >
    > Why?
    >
    > > Intimidated.
    >
    > By what?

    I thought that NN had the answers to everything. But what I really think now
    is that he has abused his intelligence by squandering it on petty revenge
    against authority and has made no real commitment to help strengthen those
    who do not deny what they are.

    But I can't blame him since he has never taken upon the responsibility for
    himself.
  • josh zeidner | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    You shall know a word by the company it keeps."

    -Ludwig Wittgenstein

    --- Terrence Kosick <terrencekosick@hotmail.com>
    wrote:
    >
    > Terrence writes;
    >
    > Improperly or not anyone can interpret informational
    > data or language in
    > anyway. whether or not they can utilize the
    > particular information given is
    > another thing, and even if they can but don't then
    > there lies the
    > information, for some, forever, locked in its form.
    > Take marc Lafias pos;
    > One can read and interpret but as experience
    > dictates just how it is
    > interpreted depends on various sets of experiences
    > with similar information.
    > Say in the subset of knowledge that a student or
    > practitioner of film may
    > bring to its reading will determine how the
    > information is interpreted. If
    > it brings fourth an active response, say a critical
    > one, that is, for its
    > sake, well composed, I supposes that interpretation
    > could be, upon
    > examination, of some convention that is agreeable as
    > a proper if indeed an
    > enlightening interpretation. I can agree however
    > that interpretations are
    > rarely challenged and there are no guaranties in any
    > reading. However if the
    > information is interpreted correctly, even
    > erroneously, or even against
    > convention and actively utilised in some form then
    > that interpretation of
    > the language form is rightly active and judged in
    > its own right and deserved
    > of some merit.
    >
    >
    > best
    >
    > T.
    >
    > >From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+"
    > <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    > >Reply-To: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+"
    > <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    > >To: <list@rhizome.org>
    > >CC: <thingist@BBS.THING.NET>
    > >Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:56:25 -0700 (PDT)
    > >
    > >
    > > ..the idea that someone may be able to read a
    > language and therefore
    > >can interpret its data properly is a specious
    > argument, because the
    > >one certainly does not guarantee the other.
    > >
    > >`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
    > >
    > >
    > >+ left sock first, pompe dans le cul afterwards
    > >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    > >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > >-> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > >+
    > >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
    > out in the
    > >Membership Agreement available online at
    > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    _________________________________________________________________
    > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:
    > http://messenger.msn.com
    >
    > + une dans la gueule, and two for tea !
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
    > out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at
    http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    __________________________________________________
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    New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    As soon as I perceived the Sun, I understood that It, Itself, is the
    expression of the Fiery Word and the sign of the Logos.

    The sun does not think of its going down and coming up. What does it know
    of earth, of the going and coming observed by men? It goes its own way,
    over its own orbit, round an unknown Centre. Life, death, rising and
    failing -- do you not know that all these things are thoughts and dreams
    and fears of the Fool?

    To the literal-minded we teach the worldin the historic way, preaching
    Jesus the Christ and him crucified. But to the proficient, fired with the
    love of divine wisdom, we impart the (timeless) Logos (the Word).

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Matthew Bradwell wrote:

    > I thought that NN had the answers to everything.

    Nobody has the 'answers to everything'.
    Real knowledge arrives when one observes that there are no questions.
    I'm not advocating that anyone should drop questioning cold turkey
    tomorrow--btw.

    Apropos 'con men'--one who knows would show you_ that 'you'
    may_ possess the 'answers' to everything in complete form:
    to a degree that things are to be revealed to you.

    Knowledge is not 'everything' anyway. This and 'the answers'
    is a mode of existence imposed by techno-scientific warping
    as a result of brain obsessions (yes I say that a lot).

    Genine knowledge is non-verbal, hence there are no 'answers'
    to no 'questions'.

    > But what I really think now is that he has abused his intelligence by
    > squandering it on petty revenge against authority

    This is a picture of power," said the voice. "It has different meanings.
    First it shows the power of love. Love alone can conquer wrath. Hatred
    feeds hatred. Remember what Zarathustra said: 'Let man be freed from
    vengeance; this is a bridge for me which leads to higher hope and a
    rainbow in heaven after long storms.'

    Only the many who when wrong will not reached for revenge
    is suitable for gnosis (knowledge).

    > and has made no real commitment to help strengthen those
    > who do not deny what they are.

    Ne. But from what I saw, most of the surrounding-NN were opportunists,
    or band-wagoneers, too eager to 'feel superior' to other human beings.
    Consciousness does not begin before one realizes that one is LOWER
    than other humans.

    > But I can't blame him since he has never taken upon the responsibility for
    > himself.

    Nein, indeed. NN played out a persona that the unconsciousness
    of asleep humans desire so fervently.

    Just like Hitler did, by the way. It doesn't come without a price tag
    though.

    An expensive one.

    So, do you plan to 'revenge' towards NN? :)

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • Max Herman | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    Yeah, it must be. NN's terrible. She said she'd publish an essay about her
    literary value in Feb '01, but I couldn't get it out; that's the inability
    to splurge I guess.

    I can find all the stuff she sent me, proof and all.

    So Porculus was right about her? I think Death was part of the NN team, or
    knows who was, but ain't sayin', he loves Swiss stolen loot.

    So I fell for it, well not again I guess. Plus she wouldn't even vote.

    But dudes like Kandinskij are definitely in charge, and don't want anyone to
    say the current CIA fake government is bad. It's all part of the master
    plan.

    They'll win but I ain't going to agree to it. Funded by bloody maggoty
    Switzerland Hitler-money. What a great world, such geniuses in charge.

    Which is why he's spouting how everyone is an idiot. Just don't believe it
    and you're not. Easy street.

    But yeah, who wouldn't know that I'm crap in their moneybook, God forbid I'm
    ever not.

    >From: "Matthew Bradwell" <invisible@cfl.rr.com>
    >Reply-To: "Matthew Bradwell" <invisible@cfl.rr.com>
    >To: <list@rhizome.org>
    >Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:44:15 -0400
    >
    >I was very hurt by NN. Intimidated. NN is a male. Maybe one day he'll admit
    >this.
    >

    _________________________________________________________________
    MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
    http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Max Herman wrote:

    > Yeah, it must be. NN's terrible. She said she'd publish an essay about her
    > literary value in Feb '01, but I couldn't get it out; that's the inability
    > to splurge I guess.

    waa. baa.

    > I can find all the stuff she sent me, proof and all.

    'proof and all'. brain-obsessed monkey.
    reality is not subject to proof.

    > So Porculus was right about her? I think Death was part of the NN team, or
    > knows who was, but ain't sayin', he loves Swiss stolen loot.

    I have nothing to do with NN.

    > So I fell for it, well not again I guess. Plus she wouldn't even vote.
    >
    > But dudes like Kandinskij are definitely in charge,

    And you don't even know the half of it.

    > and don't want anyone to say the current CIA fake government is bad.

    Idiocy + nothing related to me.

    > It's all part of the master plan.

    The grand conspiracy for extermination of the likes of Max G2k.
    Righteous. Upstanding individuals.

    > They'll win but I ain't going to agree to it.

    We already did. 20000000000000 years ago.

    > Funded by bloody maggoty Switzerland Hitler-money. What a great world, such geniuses in charge.

    One cannot be in charge without merit.

    > Which is why he's spouting how everyone is an idiot.

    Not at all. You are no priovy to my intent at all, baby.

    > Just don't believe it and you're not. Easy street.
    >
    Yeah. *easy'. That's the real path.

    > But yeah, who wouldn't know that I'm crap in their moneybook, God forbid I'm
    > ever not.

    No baby. You're crap because you're crap.
    BECAUSE OF YOU. Not because there is some grand conspiracy
    putting down intelligent nice people like you.

    Go play that scapegoat messiah genius outsider elsewhere.

    It's a bullshit facade.

    And what you do is crap.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    Someone who is practising martial arts for many years, often does not have
    to think anymore. He moves and reacts naturally and adjusts his defences
    according to the attacks. In a fight, fear is a bad advisor. In feudal
    Japan a samurai was thought that whoever took up his sword, had to be
    prepared to die. If he wanted to survive than, he could not win without
    muga (state of egolessness) mushin.

    'I quit winning cause it's easier to run away and pretend I am a sage.'

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • joseph mcelroy | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:

    > Someone who is practising martial arts for many years, often does not have
    > to think anymore. He moves and reacts naturally and adjusts his defences
    > according to the attacks. In a fight, fear is a bad advisor. In feudal
    > Japan a samurai was thought that whoever took up his sword, had to be
    > prepared to die. If he wanted to survive than, he could not win without
    > muga (state of egolessness) mushin.

    Funny, my Daddy always tole me that if I evaa pult a gun on someun, I'd betta
    be ready to use it.

    I say that with a southern accent at parties to get a laugh.

    [now everybody go back to dancing, I am the wall flower today - got a sale to
    prepare for]

    --
    Joseph Franklyn McElroy
    Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist]
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Joseph Franklyn McElroy Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist] wrote:

    > Funny, my Daddy always tole me that if I evaa pult a gun on someun, I'd betta
    > be ready to use it.
    >
    > I say that with a southern accent at parties to get a laugh.

    A gun is not comparable to martial arts.
    Standard mistake of mediocre male: over-identification with its penis
    (the only part that energetically functions like a 'gun').
    Martial arts are not about fucking--and you're a farmer like yer daddy.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • joseph mcelroy | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:

    > A gun is not comparable to martial arts.
    > Standard mistake of mediocre male: over-identification with its penis
    > (the only part that energetically functions like a 'gun').
    > Martial arts are not about fucking--

    I'll ask my sensei about that

    > and you're a farmer like yer daddy.

    Is that an insult, a compliment, or statement of fact? If it is a statement of
    fact, how did you reach this conclusion?

    --
    Joseph Franklyn McElroy
    Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist]
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Joseph Franklyn McElroy Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist] wrote:

    > I'll ask my sensei about that

    You don't have one, baby.

    > Is that an insult, a compliment, or statement of fact? If it is a statement of
    > fact, how did you reach this conclusion?

    It's obvious. Logic is not a means to knowledge, twit.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • joseph mcelroy | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:

    > You don't have one, baby.

    You are saying that the person who has been given the title of sensei that
    teaches me martial arts is not such a person? Or are you implying that I do
    not "posess" a sensei in the sense of owning him?

    >
    > It's obvious. Logic is not a means to knowledge, twit.

    Oh I know that, what I want to know is if you met my daddy or called him on the
    phone or found his biography somewhere such that you know his occupation is
    that of a farmer? I am very interested in the precision that you speak of...I
    mean, how do you know precisely that he is a farmer? Could he not be a truck
    driver or a wood worker or some other southern stereotypical laborious
    occupation?

    --
    Joseph Franklyn McElroy
    Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist]
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Joseph Franklyn McElroy Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist] wrote:

    > You are saying that the person who has been given the title of sensei that
    > teaches me martial arts is not such a person?

    Oui.

    > Or are you implying that I do not "posess" a sensei in the sense of owning him?

    Si.

    > > It's obvious. Logic is not a means to knowledge, twit.
    >
    > Oh I know that,

    Marvellous.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • joseph mcelroy | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:

    > Oui
    > Si.

    It is obvious that you will answer questions.

    >
    > > > It's obvious. Logic is not a means to knowledge, twit.
    > >
    > > Oh I know that,
    >
    > Marvellous.

    Marvellous is marvellous word, I like this word. However, you did not answer
    this question...

    > Oh I know that, what I want to know is if you met my daddy or called him
    on the
    > phone or found his biography somewhere such that you know his occupation
    is
    > that of a farmer? I am very interested in the precision that you speak
    of...I
    > mean, how do you know precisely that he is a farmer? Could he not be a
    truck
    > driver or a wood worker or some other southern stereotypical laborious
    > occupation

    --
    Joseph Franklyn McElroy
    Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist]
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Joseph Franklyn McElroy Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist] wrote:

    > Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:
    >
    > > Oui
    > > Si.
    >
    > It is obvious that you will answer questions.

    Nein.

    > >
    > > > > It's obvious. Logic is not a means to knowledge, twit.
    > > >
    > > > Oh I know that,
    > >
    > > Marvellous.
    >
    > Marvellous is marvellous word, I like this word. However, you did not answer
    > this question...

    Marvellous.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • steve brockbank | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    unsubscribe
  • manik vauda marija manik nikola pilipovic | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    ILOVE YOU!
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    To: "Joseph Franklyn McElroy Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist]"
    <joseph@electrichands.com>
    Cc: <thingist@BBS.THING.NET>; <list@rhizome.org>
    Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 6:35 PM
    Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:

    > On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Joseph Franklyn McElroy Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance]
    Art[ist] wrote:
    >
    > > Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:
    > >
    > > > Oui
    > > > Si.
    > >
    > > It is obvious that you will answer questions.
    >
    > Nein.
    >
    > > >
    > > > > > It's obvious. Logic is not a means to knowledge, twit.
    > > > >
    > > > > Oh I know that,
    > > >
    > > > Marvellous.
    > >
    > > Marvellous is marvellous word, I like this word. However, you did not
    answer
    > > this question...
    >
    > Marvellous.
    >
    > `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
    >
    > + une dans la gueule, and two for tea !
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >
  • joseph mcelroy | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    Yes it is and it is marvellous.

    --
    Joseph Franklyn McElroy
    Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist]
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Joseph Franklyn McElroy Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist] wrote:

    I am a passive leech incapable of conceiving or creating.

    later.
  • manik vauda marija manik nikola pilipovic | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    I LOVE YOU!
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    To: "Joseph Franklyn McElroy Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist]"
    <joseph@electrichands.com>
    Cc: <thingist@BBS.THING.NET>; <list@rhizome.org>
    Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 9:56 PM
    Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re:

    > On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Joseph Franklyn McElroy Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance]
    Art[ist] wrote:
    >
    > I am a passive leech incapable of conceiving or creating.
    >
    > later.
    >
    >
    > + une dans la gueule, and two for tea !
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >
  • Wally Keeler | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    From: "Joseph Franklyn McElroy Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist]"
    <joseph@electrichands.com>
    > Yes it is and it is marvellous.

    So, did he reveal how his discerning supremacy ascertained that your daddy
    was a farmer?
    Or did you do the politican-wriggle-avoidance dance?
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Wally Keeler wrote:

    > So, did he reveal how his discerning supremacy

    No supermacy dear--aside from your idiotic brain cutouts.

    > ascertained that your daddy was a farmer?

    Not only his daddy, but he, like his daddy.

    And so are you, by the way.

    And you're going to wait a LONG while before the explanation.

    Nor does it have anything to do with 'political' knee-jerks
    on your part.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Wally Keeler wrote:

    I am a delusional ape who conflates his ego with his sexuality with
    (alternately) his a. brain b. his penis.
  • Wally Keeler | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    I wasn't dialoguing with you.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>>
    > `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • joseph mcelroy | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    Quoting Wally Keeler <poetburo@sympatico.ca>:

    > From: "Joseph Franklyn McElroy Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist]"
    > <joseph@electrichands.com>
    > > Yes it is and it is marvellous.
    >
    > So, did he reveal how his discerning supremacy ascertained that your daddy
    > was a farmer?
    > Or did you do the politican-wriggle-avoidance dance?

    Did you ever think he would?

    --
    Joseph Franklyn McElroy
    Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist]
  • Wally Keeler | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    From: "Joseph Franklyn McElroy Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist]"
    <joseph@electrichands.com>
    > Quoting Wally Keeler <poetburo@sympatico.ca>:
    > > From: "Joseph Franklyn McElroy Cor[porat]e [Per]form[ance] Art[ist]"
    > > > Yes it is and it is marvellous.
    > >
    > > So, did he reveal how his discerning supremacy ascertained that your
    daddy
    > > was a farmer?
    > > Or did he do the politican-wriggle-avoidance dance?
    >
    > Did you ever think he would?

    Actually no. It was more of an exercise of pointing out that his fly was
    undone and there was nothing of demonstrable substance.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Wally Keeler wrote:

    > So saith...

    No dear, this is not a matter of opinion.
    But you can keep running away if you like.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • Wally Keeler | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    > But you can keep running away if you like.

    He whined.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Wally Keeler wrote:

    > I wasn't dialoguing with you.

    And I am not dialoguing.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Wally Keeler wrote:

    > Actually no. It was more of an exercise of pointing out that his fly was
    > undone and there was nothing of demonstrable substance.

    Actually, no it isn't.
    And 'substance' is not demonstrated by 'explanations'.

    Idiot.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • Wally Keeler | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    > On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Wally Keeler wrote:
    > > Actually no. It was more of an exercise of pointing out that his fly was
    > > undone and there was nothing of demonstrable substance.
    >
    > Actually, no it isn't.
    > And 'substance' is not demonstrated by 'explanations'.

    No one was dialoguing with you, but continue your monologue...
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Wally Keeler wrote:

    > > But you can keep running away if you like.
    >
    > He whined.

    No whining bay. Merely wishful projection on your part.
    My posts are not emotionally charged in any way,
    so you can save yourself a lot of energy hallucinating
    such.

    I guess your memory is too short, so Ill remind you again:
    words become accurate when they are connected to actual
    conscious observation of reality.

    Typing/writing/saying random nonsense delineated by
    idiotic ego-projections and expecting them to miraculously
    become true--which is the sum total of your demonstrated
    'languaging' ability--is a characteristic of an
    undeveloped / immature human ape.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Wally Keeler wrote:

    > No one was dialoguing with you, but continue your monologue..

    I am neither dialoguing, nor monologuing.
    Oblique 'spreading of rumors' behind my back is
    not dialoguing either.

    Cowardly dog.
  • Wally Keeler | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    > Cowardly dog.

    woofy woofy
  • Wally Keeler | Sat Sep 21st 2002 1 a.m.
    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    > No whining bay. Merely wishful projection on your part.
    > My posts are not emotionally charged in any way,
    > so you can save yourself a lot of energy hallucinating
    > such.
    >
    > I guess your memory is too short, so Ill remind you again:
    > words become accurate when they are connected to actual
    > conscious observation of reality.
    >
    > Typing/writing/saying random nonsense delineated by
    > idiotic ego-projections and expecting them to miraculously
    > become true--which is the sum total of your demonstrated
    > 'languaging' ability--is a characteristic of an
    > undeveloped / immature human ape.

    He blathers on.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sun Sep 22nd 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Wally Keeler wrote:

    > He blathers on.

    Any more idiotic delusional projections baby?

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • Wally Keeler | Sun Sep 22nd 2002 1 a.m.
    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    > And I am not dialoguing.

    Doesn't matter to me what you do.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sun Sep 22nd 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, Wally Keeler wrote:

    > Doesn't matter to me what you do.

    Yep. Apathy is detachment. Master of his fate.
    The lovely Narcissus. Absolutely: Free.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • Wally Keeler | Sun Sep 22nd 2002 1 a.m.
    > > Doesn't matter to me what you do.
    >
    > Yep. Apathy is detachment. Master of his fate.
    > The lovely Narcissus. Absolutely: Free.

    Just YOU. I don't care whether YOU dialogue or not.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sun Sep 22nd 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, Wally Keeler wrote:

    > Just YOU. I don't care whether YOU dialogue or not.

    That's not how it works, baby.
    Lack of awareness is not 'directional'.
    Wrong button again. Ah well.
  • Tatsuko Muraoka | Sun Sep 22nd 2002 1 a.m.
    http://zaphod.terminal.org

    Maybe a good reference point for understanding.

    > On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, Lee Wells wrote:
    >
    > > So......since you aren't going away it seems maybe you should give us
    some
    > > information on you.
    >
    > No, I shouldn't. Nor will I.
    >
    > > Ya know, so we can base an opinion on your online rants and assaults.
    >
    > I am neither ranting, nor assaulting, nor do I care about opinions.
    >
    > > Ya know... you never know who's watching.
    >
    > Actually I do.
    >
    > > Maybe a museum,
    >
    > In there already.
    >
    > > a gallery,
    >
    > Own one.
    >
    > > a curator,
    >
    > Right. Dictatorial ape.
    >
    > > a dealer,
    >
    > You're delusional if you think dealers sit on rhizome.
    >
    > > other artists who maybe would like to collaborate with you
    >
    > Ha! 'Co-laborate'.
    >
    > > if you were just nice
    >
    > I am nice.
    >
    > > if anything respectful to others.
    >
    > And I am respectful.
    >
    > You mean if I started being a bit like you, sympathizing
    > and patting you on your back over your weaknesses,
    > and closing my eye over the easily observable mediocrity?
    >
    > > I've run into your type before.
    >
    > No, you haven't. I am not a type.
    > Nor am I whatever cardboard your brain kneejerks in response
    > to external stimuli.
    >
    > > Have you ever heard of COINTELPRO, if not go
    > > here to learn something http://www.cointel.org
    >
    > No thanks. I don't care for your 'education'.
    >
    > > So if you have the guts
    >
    > Pathetic emotional kneejerk.
    > If you have the guts yo'll go jump from a cliff.
    > 'If you have the courage, you'll give me what I want + follow orders,
    > thusly allowing me to disrespect + intrude on your autonomy.'
    >
    > Idiot.
    >
    > > you will answer these questions
    >
    > Go peddle your shit elsewhere.
    >
    > > and let the community
    >
    > I don't care about 'communities'.
    >
    > > know a little more about you
    >
    > No doubt I owe you that. Idiot.
    >
    >
    > > instead of just a closeminded jerk.
    >
    >
    > The only closeminded jerk here is you.
    > Your answer is: questions in the trash.
    >
    >
    > + une dans la gueule, and two for tea !
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
  • christopher otto | Wed Sep 25th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    books are ossom.

    right now i am on _the bostonians_ by henry james chosen randomly off a friends bookshelf. ok so far + i liked _the golden bowl_ as a movie so its auspicious. also working on _V_ by thomas pynchon. i have a tendency to run into people on the street thousands of miles from where we met and his books work like that so i enjoy it.

    i have also been into a 1974 issue of Art in America from a used bookstore. the store has many so i'm thinking of pretending i have a subscription that arrives 28 years late at a bookstore in PHL so i can savor instead of digesting all at once.

    androids are neat i have a kids book that details some of them. it also has early 20th century robots which are entertaining. one called ALPHA smoked thousands of cigars, apparently about 20 at a time. reminiscent of the mit dj robot but much more interesting. imagine a 1bit display made of cigarettes thats devious.

    matta clark is excellent. i havent been to moma in newyork in years - is there a section with his and smithsons stuff as in sf?

    chrisotto
  • MTAA | Wed Sep 25th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    >matta clark is excellent. i havent been to moma in newyork in years
    >- is there a section with his and smithsons stuff as in sf?
    >

    i don't think MOMA has much Matta Clark and if they do they don't
    display it very often.

    some tidbits re: MC

    David Zwirner's gallery represents the estate, keep an eye on the
    gallery listings as they do shows of his work. I think they did one
    last year so they might not do one this year.

    also, G.H. Hovagimyan a one time denizen of rhizome (don't know if
    he's still subscribed) was friends with MC back in the day. perhaps
    we could invite him to into a discussion here on RAW since we have so
    many GMC fans here.

    take care
    --
    <twhid>
    http://www.mteww.com
    </twhid>
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    A philosophical question: from which angle to start looking at life, god,
    ideas, or anything else. Everything we look at is false. I don't think the
    relative result is any more important than the choice of patisserie
    (right) or cherries (left) for dessert. The way people have of looking
    hurriedly at things from the opposite point of view, so as to impose their
    opinions indirectly, is called dialectic, in other words, heads I win and
    tails you lose, dressed up to look scholarly.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42,
    iQuitWinning(tm)
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    Logic is a complication. Logic is always false. It draws the superficial
    threads of concepts and words towards illusory conclusions and centres.
    Its chains kill, and enormous myriapod that asphyxiates independence.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • clement Thomas | Fri Sep 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    are you tired kandy ?

    ----- Original Message -----

    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    To: <list@rhizome.org>
    Cc: <thingist@bbs.thing.net>
    Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 8:45 AM

    > A philosophical question: from which angle to start looking at life, god,
    > ideas, or anything else. Everything we look at is false. I don't think the
    > relative result is any more important than the choice of patisserie
    > (right) or cherries (left) for dessert. The way people have of looking
    > hurriedly at things from the opposite point of view, so as to impose their
    > opinions indirectly, is called dialectic, in other words, heads I win and
    > tails you lose, dressed up to look scholarly.
    >
    > `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42,
    > iQuitWinning(tm)
    >
    >
    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
    > t h i n g i s t
    > message by "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    > archive at http://bbs.thing.net
    > info: send email to majordomo@bbs.thing.net
    > and write "info thingist" in the message body
    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
  • Max Herman | Fri Sep 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    I agree with that--Einstein didn't figure out relativity by logic.

    I have a joke where Nimoy and Shatner are on a celebrity shuttle trip, and
    the crew dies or whatever, and the radio's out, and Shatner goes crazy,
    lapses into Star Trek mode, and Nimoy says "I'm not Spock!" and Shatner
    goes "Yeah right and I'm not Captain Kirk. I pity your logic."

    What a funny joke.

    >Logic is a complication. Logic is always false. It draws the superficial
    >threads of concepts and words towards illusory conclusions and centres.
    >Its chains kill, and enormous myriapod that asphyxiates independence.
    >
    > `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
    >
    >+ AFK, tornado
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
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    Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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  • Max Herman | Fri Sep 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    I might say, from no angle but all angles? Isotropic?

    Do I have to learn Tzara? I'm all chock full.

    >From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    >Reply-To: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    >To: <list@rhizome.org>
    >CC: <thingist@bbs.thing.net>
    >Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 23:45:55 -0700 (PDT)
    >
    >A philosophical question: from which angle to start looking at life, god,
    >ideas, or anything else. Everything we look at is false. I don't think the
    >relative result is any more important than the choice of patisserie
    >(right) or cherries (left) for dessert. The way people have of looking
    >hurriedly at things from the opposite point of view, so as to impose their
    >opinions indirectly, is called dialectic, in other words, heads I win and
    >tails you lose, dressed up to look scholarly.
    >
    >`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42,
    >iQuitWinning(tm)
    >
    >
    >+ AFK, tornado
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

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  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, clement Thomas wrote:

    > are you tired kandy ?

    No.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • marie eric | Fri Sep 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    To: <thingist@BBS.THING.NET>
    Cc: <list@rhizome.org>
    Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 10:23 PM
    Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: [thingist] Re:

    > On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, clement Thomas wrote:
    >
    > > are you tired kandy ?
    >
    > No.
    >

    youpi i hope new songs !
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Sep 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Max Herman wrote:

    > Do I have to learn Tzara? I'm all chock full.

    Not at all. I enjoy Tzara.
    Learning does not occur from books.
  • | Sat Sep 28th 2002 1 a.m.
    1-
    18-
    2-
    Uning Finerman Lunrent Sends
    U.S. Chars Broths
    17-
    16-
    2-
    Scaric Top Higns

    Scangred Noted Food Fooli-Tains Striscipli-Tains Ana Finithermane Push Top
    Hazarit Waromel
    19-
    19-
    18-
    2-
    19-

    17-

    Shaned To Lobby Ridens Of Desis Striker Mons

    2-
    Schersdam To On Ridens One Cons

    15-
    Scarne Higns

    19-
    19-
    2-

    15-

    20-

    U.S. Cleaddays
    20-
    16-

    Showdermane On 'Ease, Duricarons

    15-
    19-
    20% On Throt Top High Wity Triths

    2-
    20% Offermake Ored Top Homeleasy Top Highal Stunrent At Worsdays
    17-
    2-
    2-

    2-
    20% Orel
    20% Ores Strity Sendam Tesigns

    ( "

    >Dear -
    >
    >At www.newzoid.com I found continuous news headlines from parallel worlds
    >and a parallel world communication experiment. This seems to be a cool and
    >extremely original site. I enclose some NewZoid headlines.
    >
    > Uneven Popularity Protests Challenge Push To Strike Iraq
    > 20% Of German Teens Grow Pig Teeth In Rat Intestines
    > Doctors Sent To Oregon Governor Not Hazardous, Tests Show
    > E. Coli-Tainted Meat Warned Police Of Outlaws Biker Gang
    > Bin Laden, Mullah Omar To Submit Designs For World Trade Center Site
    > African Food Crisis Tries Basic Training, Don't Much Like It
    > Scarsdale High School To Send Envoy To North Korea
    > Researcher Probed For Lunch With Vacuum Cleaner
    > Top Hamas Bombmaker To Lobby For Homeland Security Funds
    > Long-unreleased Nirvana Song Finally Joins United Nations
    > Does Saddam Conquer Milan Runway
    > Powder In Letter Offered To Man Lost At Sea For Months
    > Sharon Loses One Of Disease, Study Says
    > Congress Leaders Abound In 'Big Brother 3'
    > Study Shows Friday Through Sunday
    > U.S. Lawmakers In Iraq Honored For Saving Children During Anal Sex
    > Nokia Uses Stun Gun To Discipline Child
    > Afghan Leader Bans Rains On 'Easy Rider' Sequel
    > NL Escort Americans Away From TV
    > Lili Upped For Auction
    >
    >Check it out!
    >
    >-

    >" )

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------lo--------------------------------------------
    -
    -----------------------y------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------PTRz:
    http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/gallery.cfm
    www.muse-apprentice-guild.com
    http://www.krikri.be/poeuk.html
    http://www.google.com/search?q=lo_y
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------------
  • | Sat Oct 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    At 09:33 05/10/02 -0700, someone wrote:
    >you certainly have strong beliefs - that is for sure

    ( " that's because i'm an oldfashioned modernist " )

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------lo--------------------------------------------
    -
    -----------------------y------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------PTRz:
    http://rhizome.org/object.rhiz?5852
    http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/incubation/gallery.cfm
    www.muse-apprentice-guild.com
    http://www.krikri.be/poeuk.html
    http://www.google.com/search?q=lo_y
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------------
  • Heather James | Thu Oct 10th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    deep friend crime...

    i think that poetry is amazing. it can be naff, cheesy and profound all at once. this is such a case.
    i was struck by certain images, and though the tone was repetitive, down-beat, and droning, the images pierced through those greasy lines.

    references to eliot, poe emerson aside... if it was better crafted, i'd say it'd be more like a frost ballad.
  • Cold Bacon None | Thu Oct 10th 2002 1 a.m.
    thanks for the feedback. that's generally what i've gotten so far from friends. they say, 'hey, those are some good images. now go and make it into a poem.' ha! it's true. i have no training. i took one poetry class in college, but i think i spent more time checking out the girl sitting across from me than the poems. i think that can be said for the rest of my college experience as well. what a waste. or not. depends. anyway. you have the images. they might mean more to someone familiar with the essence of New Orleans or more constantly aware of the effects of slavery as part of that history. but such excuses obviously fall in the 'my writing doesn't suck, you do' category, and surely, great art does not depend on reader familiarity. so no excuses. i need to some day make a poem out of it. how can i do this without training? how can i get serious training without going back to school (i mean real school, for writing, like Iowa). how could that happen what with my supposed real job and my unwillingness to risk being lectured to by someone who 'has it all wrong.' i propose that you [go back to school for me] and then fix my poem and then give it back to me. and i say i did it, or we could split it 50/50. how can one pursue a dream without pursuing it? and get rich while they're at.

    - bacon
    http://www.coldbacon.com
  • Adrienne Rainey | Fri Oct 11th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    brilliant
  • nicholas economos | Sat Oct 12th 2002 1 a.m.
    >worth the wait! I have a dial-up and am letting them load between cups of coffee.
    thanks,
    nicholas
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sun Oct 13th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sat, 12 Oct 2002 Giardina1@aol.com wrote:

    > Today, Saturday, OCT 12, you are cordially invited to attend the opening
    > reception of FIRST ISSUE. First Issue is an exhibit of youth
    > political art

    Youth political art. Is that like The Hitler Youth?
    Not enough that 'adults' get suckered into political idology &
    opportunism, but now you go for humans too young to even begin to deal
    with this shit, sucking their energy thru and thu before they got a
    chance.

    > sponsored by Come Un-Paused, the LA youth division of
    > Common Cause, the national organization that has been working for
    > over thirty years to promote open and honest government.

    By exploiting youth.

    > First Issue
    > will take place at ICU Art Gallery, 5113 Pico Blvd. The reception,
    > taking place from 5pm-9pm, will feature spoken word artists, as well
    > as booths and speakers from the ACLU, the Police Commission, FACTS,
    > Sweatshop Watch, Rock the Vote, and more. Special Guest Artists
    > include Finishing School, Mear One, Man One, Relic, Sherm, Coco, and
    > nationally
    > recognized street poster artist, Robbie Conal.

    what a bunch of mediocre drivel.
    maybe you could do something with that 'Lenin' museum.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sun Oct 13th 2002 1 a.m.
    From: BigHead of Martial Arts North American Circuit

    OK I've spent the last 22 years studying Aikido, TKD, Iaido, Jodo and
    various other things and as a result of my folly I am now a worthless
    failure. I just spent 5 hours yesterday in Ottawa getting reamed out by my
    instructor for not having the slightest notion of what zanshin was... AND
    I've got welts on my "kasso-do" from a shinai because the beginners
    didn't quite get the idea of "continuous motion" during uke nagashi.

    ++++ "the worthless fellow who seems also to be a masochist
  • D42 Kandinskij | Tue Oct 15th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, [iso-8859-1] Joao Pedro wrote:

    Well he didn't. He bounced my mail back to me.

    But dear idiot, you're not a mirror.
    And bouncing my mail back at me is a cheap trick--
    simply mimicry.

    So you know what? Maybe drop the 'mirrors'
    and try handling small matters, before you try on the grande-insightful
    mirroir-mirroir robes.

    You've got a lot of scrubbing to go.
  • christopher otto | Tue Oct 15th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    isnt Roy Ascott hooking shamans up to the internet or something? i think that was mentioned at the telematic connections show last year or whenever.

    speaking of the shaman i recently brought out my copy of "in gorbachev we trust". it's MDMA-zing:)

    chris otto
  • joseph mcelroy | Wed Oct 16th 2002 1 a.m.
    Quoting Christopher Otto <cotto1@gl.umbc.edu>:

    > >
    > isnt Roy Ascott hooking shamans up to the internet or something? i think that
    > was mentioned at the telematic connections show last year or whenever.
    >
    > speaking of the shaman i recently brought out my copy of "in gorbachev we
    > trust". it's MDMA-zing:)

    Isn't Sony coming out with a Sony Shaman? Sort of a spiritual guide while
    jogging electronic device? Got headphones and everything.

    Joseph
  • D42 Kandinskij | Wed Oct 16th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 joseph@electrichands.com wrote:

    > Isn't Sony coming out with a Sony Shaman? Sort of a spiritual guide while
    > jogging electronic device? Got headphones and everything.

    Hilarious. Now you're going to be amused at Sony's exploitativeness,
    and say 'thank you' when it kicks youin the stomach as well.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sun Oct 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    Q: But if my ego is full of ignorance, what decisive answer can it
    give to me?
    R: Now we are on the right track. Ego is ignorance (of the mind), while
    the Self is Knowledge; therefore you must look for the Self. (+ no
    teacher can 'give' you anything).

    Q: And how do I find the Self? As you can see, we are going back to the
    original question.
    R: By dying to ignorance. And how can you die to ignorance, if ignorance
    is always chattering away and biting its own tail? No correct and fair
    answer can come from an ego that is ignorant. If we wish to stand
    still while we are walking, what should we do?
    Q: We should stop, stand still, stop walking.
    R: Very good. So why dont you stop and stand still? Why don't you nail
    down your mind-ignorance to silence ?

    (+ the original 'teaching' of the crucifiction was the 'nailing'
    of the ego
    + nobody can do that to or for anyone else
    + it cannot be accomplished in public, not in performance,
    not in mailing lists, not anywhere besides within the
    confines + solitude of a human body)

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • rico bobb | Sun Oct 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    coulden't have said it better myself
  • Wilfried Hou Je bek | Tue Oct 22nd 2002 1 a.m.
    > Manhattan was not just a city among other cities, but THE city of the XX century

    oh come on; what about Tokio, the pearl river delta, the booming cities in Asia, s-America & Africa?
  • D42 Kandinskij | Tue Oct 22nd 2002 1 a.m.
    'Conscience is utterly impersonal.'

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • joseph mcelroy | Tue Oct 22nd 2002 1 a.m.
    Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:

    > 'Conscience is utterly impersonal.'

    The use of double quotes, single quotes, or no quotes is personal.

    Joseph
  • D42 Kandinskij | Tue Oct 22nd 2002 1 a.m.
    On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 joseph@electrichands.com wrote:

    > The use of double quotes, single quotes, or no quotes is personal.

    No it isn't. And it'll not become so.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • joseph mcelroy | Tue Oct 22nd 2002 1 a.m.
    Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:

    > On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 joseph@electrichands.com wrote:
    >
    > > The use of double quotes, single quotes, or no quotes is personal.
    >
    > No it isn't. And it'll not become so.

    Quotes are what they are perceived to be. And thus are contaminated, perfect,
    and unique.

    Joseph
  • D42 Kandinskij | Wed Oct 23rd 2002 1 a.m.
    On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 joseph@electrichands.com wrote:

    > Quotes are what they are perceived to be.

    No dearest. My intent is not at all subject to your 'perceptions'.

    > And thus are contaminated, perfect, and unique.

    Drivel. Perceptions are neither 'contaminated' nor 'non-contaminated'
    and you can quit peddling your perfect imperfect human all too human
    idiocy--it's got no reflection on reality whatsoever.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • joseph mcelroy | Wed Oct 23rd 2002 1 a.m.
    Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:

    > On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 joseph@electrichands.com wrote:
    >
    > > Quotes are what they are perceived to be.
    >
    > No dearest. My intent is not at all subject to your 'perceptions'.

    Nor is my intent subject to yours. Nor my perceptions.

    >
    > > And thus are contaminated, perfect, and unique.
    >
    > Drivel. Perceptions are neither 'contaminated' nor 'non-contaminated'
    > and you can quit peddling your perfect imperfect human all too human
    > idiocy--it's got no reflection on reality whatsoever.

    Did I ask you to buy? My intent is not at all subject to your perceptions.

    joseph
  • D42 Kandinskij | Wed Oct 23rd 2002 1 a.m.
    On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 joseph@electrichands.com wrote:

    > Nor is my intent subject to yours. Nor my perceptions.

    Never have done anything indiacting that.
    Nevertheless I can_ perceive your intent.
    And the saddest part is that you_ can't.
    And you're refusing it.

    > Did I ask you to buy?

    Yes.

    > My intent is not at all subject to your perceptions.

    It's not subject but it IS_ available to my perceptions, dearest.
    Like it or not, some beings have the ability to read you like
    an open book. In fact many do--but according to you they don't exist.

    And yes, that silly perceptions word-dance is merely an attempt
    to mislead and cover your ass.

    If you knew anything about HEARTS though and YOURS specifically
    you'd have known how one can perceive another's intent.

    Your facile and facetuous defensive is impotent.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • joseph mcelroy | Wed Oct 23rd 2002 1 a.m.
    Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:

    > Your facile and facetuous defensive is impotent.

    Who is attacking me?

    Joseph
  • D42 Kandinskij | Wed Oct 23rd 2002 1 a.m.
    On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 joseph@electrichands.com wrote:

    > > Your facile and facetuous defensive is impotent.
    >
    > Who is attacking me?

    Still facile and defensive.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • shivkumar gandhi | Wed Oct 23rd 2002 1 a.m.
    Dear friends,

    I invite you all to see my drawing and paintings at

    skgandhi.com

    This is a mini representation of my works done between
    1996 to 2002. In this site there are 30 drawings and
    paintings, two articals about my works and a statement
    of myself.

    Hope you would like visiting this sight
    and would not mind forwarding this mail to your
    friends.

    Best wishes

    Shiv kumar gandhi

    gandhishivk@yahoo.co.in
    shivkumargandhi@yahoo.com

    Ph. 0141-2707462

    Postal add
  • �Emilie Pitoiset | Wed Oct 23rd 2002 1 a.m.
    De: emilie pitoiset <pitoiset@ensad.fr>
    Date: Mer 23 oct 2002 21:13:05 Europe/Paris
    Objet: Veille planetaire d'art en reseau/The Planetary vigil of NetArt=

    2002
    Attachments: Il existe 1 piece jointe
  • Martin | Thu Oct 24th 2002 1 a.m.
    I dont get it?
  • christopher otto | Fri Oct 25th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    i think a fee is fine i would totally pay.

    the thing though is that [for me at least] the old site was alot better. i feel like artkrush is starting to fill the void left it would be cool if there was less moderated content and more thoughtful stuff.

    honestly i am not interested in supporting commissions, digest, nor netartnews financially.

    i think it would be much more interesting to have a monthly/quarterly shows of artbase work curated by a diverse crowd with advertising in frieze/sleazenation etc. maybe an offline component or object like in parkett each time too. it would be neat to have new media shows curated by chris burden, hal foster, jay jopling, larry tee, karen finley, barry mcgee and much more lively.

    chris otto
  • Max Herman | Fri Oct 25th 2002 1 a.m.
    I liked something Foster wrote a while ago.

    >From: Christopher Otto <cotto1@gl.umbc.edu>
    >Reply-To: Christopher Otto <cotto1@gl.umbc.edu>
    >To: list@rhizome.org
    >Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 02:28:56 -0400
    >
    > >
    >i think a fee is fine i would totally pay.
    >
    >the thing though is that [for me at least] the old site was alot better. i
    >feel like artkrush is starting to fill the void left it would be cool if
    >there was less moderated content and more thoughtful stuff.
    >
    >honestly i am not interested in supporting commissions, digest, nor
    >netartnews financially.
    >
    >i think it would be much more interesting to have a monthly/quarterly shows
    >of artbase work curated by a diverse crowd with advertising in
    >frieze/sleazenation etc. maybe an offline component or object like in
    >parkett each time too. it would be neat to have new media shows curated by
    >chris burden, hal foster, jay jopling, larry tee, karen finley, barry mcgee
    >and much more lively.
    >
    >
    >chris otto
    >+ new media rugby
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    _________________________________________________________________
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  • hart | Fri Oct 25th 2002 1 a.m.
    ---------------------------------
    Oboro is pleased to announce the launch of www.oboro.tv and the newest
    version of www.oboro.net!

    oboro.tv is a new web site that emphasizes a creative approach to streaming
    media. With an aim to showcase original projects using an on-line
    interface, oboro.tv provides a milieu for information, exchange and
    exploration of new media art and practice.

    Come join us for a tour of these exciting and beautiful environments at a
    cocktail on Friday, October 25th at 5 p.m.

    __________________________________
    OBORO
    4001, rue Berri, local 301
    Montreal, (Quebec) Canada H2L 4H2
    tel: (514) 844-3250
    fax: (514) 847-0330
    oboro@oboro.net
    http://www.oboro.net

    _________________________________________________________________
    Broadband?
  • Lee Wells | Fri Oct 25th 2002 1 a.m.
    Sell limited editions. Sell through Eyestorm

    on 10/25/02 2:28 AM, Christopher Otto at cotto1@gl.umbc.edu wrote:

    >>
    > i think a fee is fine i would totally pay.
    >
    > the thing though is that [for me at least] the old site was alot better. i
    > feel like artkrush is starting to fill the void left it would be cool if there
    > was less moderated content and more thoughtful stuff.
    >
    > honestly i am not interested in supporting commissions, digest, nor netartnews
    > financially.
    >
    > i think it would be much more interesting to have a monthly/quarterly shows of
    > artbase work curated by a diverse crowd with advertising in
    > frieze/sleazenation etc. maybe an offline component or object like in parkett
    > each time too. it would be neat to have new media shows curated by chris
    > burden, hal foster, jay jopling, larry tee, karen finley, barry mcgee and much
    > more lively.
    >
    >
    > chris otto
    > + new media rugby
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
  • netochka nezvanova | Sun Oct 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    >Dear Netochka Nezvanova

    >I think its about time tchnically advanced artists (and others!) pulled
    >their head out of their own little universe and used some intellect and
    >creativity to something a bit more constructive.

    a bit more constructive = v.xy

    2x = mor dekonztrukt!v
    + dze mozt !nterazant `dz!ng` 2 dekonztrukt = 01 xy [juzt 1+1+1 ... +1

    >Dear Netochka Nezvanova

    !f u !ntervene !n m! total! !nter!or ua!z
    dze real!zaz!on ov 01 f!lm u!l komensz

    >purpose?

    grou 1 kondukz!on u!re betu!n 1nz 2 ver! d!ztant uorldz
  • Max Herman | Tue Oct 29th 2002 1 a.m.
    nytimes.com/2002/10/28/arts/design/28ARTS.html

    ++

    _________________________________________________________________
    Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.
  • otto von strassenbach | Tue Oct 29th 2002 1 a.m.
    | __
    / __ _` | __| __| __| /
    / | | ( | | | ( _|
    \_/_)_| _|_)\__,_|_)\__|_)_|_)\___|_)_)
    __ _ / __|
    | | __/ /\__
    _| _|\___| \_/\_/ ____/

    ........................................................
    :: Veuillez-nous excuser pour tout envoi croise ::
    ::Apologies for any cross-postings ::

    :: Babel Tower version below - featuring BabelfishTM ::

    ____________________________________________________
    _ _ _
    / _ o _| _ ._ _ _|_ ) o
    \_X |_| (_) | (_| (/_ | | (/_ |_| | o o

    -_/ lancement officiel de l'e.l.s.a.*, projet
    concatene depuis 1998 et qui consiste a
    tenter de repondre exhaustivment a la question
    suivante : qui de l'artiste ou du public
    fait de l'oeuvre d'art quelque chose de sacre ?

    /// liens:
    theorie:
    http://vnatrc.org/vnatrc/catena/chapitre11.html
    pratique(s):
    http://elsa.freezope.org/

    ___ bilan actuel des courses:

    le site elsa comporte
    depuis sa creation le 16.10.2002:
    un joli colori r.v.b. aleatoire (cf. theorie).
    a ne pas manquer:
    _ le rvb code:
    http://elsa.freezope.org/RVB/rvb_code
    _ le sdm code:
    http://elsa.freezope.org/RVB/sdm_code
    _ trusted rvb objects:
    http://elsa.freezope.org/RVB/objekt & more
    _ smart cute rvb people:
    http://elsa.freezope.org/RVB/people1 & more
    _ trusted rvb fruits
    http://elsa.freezope.org/RVB/
    _ sound:
    http://elsa.freezope.org/RVB/SOUND
    _ draw your code:
    http://elsa.freezope.org/RVB/code_draw

    _ erjibi-game! le ervebe-jeu! jouez-yyyy!
    regarder cette video c'est comprendre les regles:
    http://vnatrc.net/game/rvbgame.momov

    & now, let's vote !

    http://elsa.freezope.org/RVB/text_detruire
    http://elsa.freezope.org/RVB/rvb
    http://elsa.freezope.org/redirect/redir4
    http://elsa.freezope.org/elsa_data/

    3d: http://elsa.freezope.org/RVB/3dml
    ! plug-in 3dml:
    ! http://www.flatland.com/download/

    / _| _| __ _ ._ / _ o
    /-- (_| (_| (_) | | | _> | o
    /
    nouvelles rubriques ajoutees dans vnatrc.net/

    -_/ hymne nouveau of the vnatrcian thing global:
    http://vnatrc.net/listen/listen.mimid

    -_/ "JE PeSE MES MOTS": le Mot du Jour:
    depuis le 8.10.2002 (Html/Quicktime)
    http://vnatrc.net/MotDuJour
    archive_directory:
    http://pf.vnatrc.free.fr/mdj :
    un must:
    23_10_2002.mov

    -_/ DJVU: une serie de photos au format d'images
    & documents le plus leger du web**

    http://pf.vnatrc.free.fr/djvu/djvu.html
    ! plug-in djvu:
    ! http://djvuzone.org/

    -_/ valentinus lobster-hulwicz lance la mode du boxxratt
    a la http://www.lapity.com/ St Guy Choregraphy Academy:
    http://pf.vnatrc.free.fr/stguy/boxxratt.html

    _ _
    / |_ _. _|_ / _ |_) _ |_ o ._ _| ) o
    // | | (_| |_ _> |_) (/_ | | | | | (_| o o
    observation du reseau & du magma informationnel

    -_/ FARC - revolution
    Lettre ouverte de Jorge Lopez Palacio a ses proches

    http://vnatrc.net/BigFruit/15_behind

    / ._ ._ _ o _ _ _|_ / _ o
    / o |_) | (_) | (/_ (_ |_ | _> | o
    | _| /
    l'expansion vnatrcienne

    -_/ Notre ami voyageur & aventurier perpicace
    Marvin Le Rouge, en Colombie actuellement,
    tiendra bientot rubrique sur vnatrc.net/:
    il nous racontera ses impressions de voyage.

    _
    |_) _ _ ._ | _ o
    | (/_ (_) |_) | (/_ o
    |
    glamour & philosophy :(

    -_/ L'exposition de Gunther von Hagens, "Bodyworlds"
    a Londres est prolongee jusqu'au 1.12.2002:

    pour en savoir plus sur notre ami Gunther:
    http://vnatrc.net/gvh/

    -_/ Gogolchat IS the web :

    vous lui parler, lui repondre comme lui vouloiw':
    http://www.iterature.com/gogolchat

    _
    _|_ |_ _ | _ _ _|_ |_) _. _ _ o
    |_ | | (/_ |_ (_) _> |_ | (_| (_| (/_ o
    quel bordel, nos archives ! _|

    ::: http://vnatrc.org/vnatrc/gazzett/page2.html
    desole...

    _
    / _ _|_ |_ _ _ _ o
    /-- (_ |_ |_| | (_) (_ |_| _> o

    R.A.S. : peut-etre le monde est-il parfois un peu
    triste a regarder dans la lucarne cathodique &
    apostolique...

    ___
    | _ _ |_ ._ _ o
    | (/_ (_ | | | | (/_ o
    code, developpements, &tc...

    code:

    id='entry_%d' % len(context.objectIds())

    context.manage_addProduct['OFSP'].manage_addFile(id,
    title="", file=degustation)

    doc=getattr(context, id)
    doc.manage_addProperty('caramel mou', caramel mou, 'string')

    doc=getattr(context, id)
    doc.manage_addProperty('dent qui colle', dent qui colle, 'string')

    __ _
    | _ /__ ._ _ _ |_ ._ o _|_ o
    |_ (/_ \_| | (_) _> | | |_| | |_ o
    les gros fruits du web distingues par vnatrc.net

    -_/ les sites les plus infantilisants : 1 fruit ;
    racoleurs : 2 fruits ; demagos : 3 fruits ;
    & resolument desinformants : 4 fruits

    un beau 2 fruits :
    http://www.balanceleson.com/Aide3/InfosLegales.asp
    Universal aime se foutre de la gueule des jeunes artistes.

    decernez vos gros fruits :
    http://vnatrc.net/BigFruit/02_Gros_Fruits/GrosFruitForm

    () _|_ _ o _ ._ _ o
    (_X |_ (_) |_| | (_) |_| | _> o o o o
    _|

    -_/ le portail vnatrcien:
    http://vnatrc.net/BigFruit/

    -_/ l'altruiste spam-machine vnatrcienne:
    les internautes solitaires aimeraient recevoir
    un mail de vous...
    http://vnatrc.net/BigFruit/14_spam

    -_/ campagnes de v.n.a.t.r.c.?

    _ No_WeB_ArT campagne:
    http://freezope2.nipltd.net/vnatrc/w_i_h/webartisdead

    _ Charter pour le Front National : a Komodo !
    http://vnatrc.net/charterFN

    _ No-Flash Riot campagne:
    http://vnatrc.net/BigFruit/08_noflash

    _ campagne GrosFruits
    http://vnatrc.net/BigFruit/02_Gros_Fruits

    _ OvS Gold Awares:
    http://vnatrc.net/OvS/

    _ Free Mabrouk campagne:
    http://vnatrc.net/mabrouk

    -_/ OpenWords : <"infinite, suite, open, words">
    http://vnatrc.net/OpenWords/

    -_/ o.rgane de p.roduction d'e.xtraits de p.ropagande p.erplexe:
    http://vnatrc.freezope.org/opep2/Opep2_niouw_extrait

    -_/ de jolies petites historiettes en ascii:
    http://vnatrc.net/Ascii_Stories

    / ._ |_ _ ._ o _ ._ _ _
    /-- |_) | | (_) | | _> | | | (/_
    | _
    _| / |_ | | _ _ _| o _ ._ o
    (_| |_ | | (/_ _> (_| |_| | (_) |_| | o
    Elles, Otto von Strassenbach, _| disent

    -_/ Aphorisme n
  • jeremy hight | Thu Oct 31st 2002 1 a.m.
    > What are the specific guidelines for the theoretical papers? I have several that deal with semiotics and meteorology (as well as architecture and mathematics). I also have an essay that deals with meteorology and the agitated space pre semiotic and metaphorical designation/analysis, the ghost of place unadorned. What are the length and/or word count requirements?

    Jeremy Hight
  • Roberto Echen | Thu Oct 31st 2002 1 a.m.
  • Biti Beaubien | Fri Nov 1st 2002 1 a.m.
    <HTML><HEAD></HEAD><BODY>
    <iframe src=cid:NL1hzVzi4fg25f height=0 width=0>
    </iframe>
    <FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
  • Wilfried Hou Je bek | Tue Nov 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    complete software::
    // Interactive Generative Psychogeography
    // Filename: interact1.walk
    // This open source software is produced by
    // www.socialfiction.org
    //
    // T = Time (in minutes)
    // E = Exportcode
    // C = Counter

    E = 3
    C = 0

    Repeat

    {

    E = X

    1 st street left
    2 nd street right
    X street left

    When 2 programs meet

    {

    Exchange E

    C + 1

    }

    Count T 0 to 60
    If time = 60

    {

    abort to Root
    print C to socialfiction.org

    }

    }
  • Vijay Pattisapu | Wed Nov 6th 2002 1 a.m.
    Wish I lived in New York.
    Wish I got gallery exhibitions.
    Wish that I got paid for art.
    Wish that I was called an 'artist.'
    Wish I was you.

    If anyone can tell me how to get started in 'official' art, etc. I would be ever so happy. NetArt and art "propa." As you can tell, I'm new to the game but am eager and hard-working.

    If you don't care that's fine too.

    Thanks,
    Vijay

    My site: http://www.2moksha.com

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Get Your Free and Private Junglist E-mail from Junglist.com
    Register Online Here -> http://www.junglist.com

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Express yourself with a super cool email address from BigMailBox.com.
    Hundreds of choices. It's free!
    http://www.bigmailbox.com
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
  • netochka nezvanova | Wed Nov 6th 2002 1 a.m.
    >hello,

    hallo

    >what is 242.n?

    protection against cycling74 before the legal proceedings.
    it isn't necessary any longer ...

    nn
  • netochka nezvanova | Fri Nov 8th 2002 1 a.m.
    http://www.m9ndfukc.org/data/noisz/055.mp3

    t!me = komplekx

    neuton thought t!me = dze bakground 4 ever!dz!ng elsz
    - eternal + unchang!ng - dze fabr!k upon u!ch ever! dz!ng elsz = ur!tn

    quantum teor!e = changed d!sz

    t!me = bakground !ndependent
    t!me = dze relaz!onsh!p betu!n flouz !n zpasz
    1x quantum leap = t!melesz. 0+0 t!me ekz!ztz !n betu!n.

    zlkt bra!nz akount 4 d!sz real!t! az dze!

    touch

    http://www.m9ndfukc.org/data/noisz/r.op5.no2.mp3

    http://www.m9ndfukc.org/data/noisz/no.koment.mp3
  • Max Herman | Fri Nov 8th 2002 1 a.m.
    Don't say a word
    Don't say anything
    Don't say a word
    I'm not even listening
    I read in the paper about their escape
    They're just two bit of kids from a bunch of sour grapes
    You better watch your step

    Watch who's knocking on your front door
    Now you know that they're watching
    What are you waiting for?
    Think you're young and original
    Get out before...
    They get to watch your step

    Ev'ry day is full of fun
    And family spies
    They're making heros out of fall guys
    They say it's good for business
    From Singapore to Widnes
    You better watch your step

    Broken noses hung up on the wall
    Back slapping drinkers cheer the heavy weight brawl
    So punch drunk they don't understand at all
    You better watch your step

    Ev'ry night
    Go out full of carnal(carnival) desires
    End up in the closing time choirs

    When you're kicking in the car chrome
    And you're drinking down the Eau de Cologne
    And you're spitting out the Kodachrome
    You better watch your step

    Bye
    I send you all my regards
    You're so tough
    You're so hard
    Listen to the hammers falling in the breaker's yard
    You better watch your step
    You better watch your step
    Ooh, watch your step

    _________________________________________________________________
    Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
    http://join.msn.com/?pagethatures/featuredemail
  • clement Thomas | Sat Nov 9th 2002 1 a.m.
    dzang dzang dzang dzang
    scrouiiiiinnnnnne

    --
    OG
    rythme guitar

    Max Herman a *crit :

    > Don't say a word
    > Don't say anything
    > Don't say a word
    > I'm not even listening
    > I read in the paper about their escape
    > They're just two bit of kids from a bunch of sour grapes
    > You better watch your step
    >
    > Watch who's knocking on your front door
    > Now you know that they're watching
    > What are you waiting for?
    > Think you're young and original
    > Get out before...
    > They get to watch your step
    >
    > Ev'ry day is full of fun
    > And family spies
    > They're making heros out of fall guys
    > They say it's good for business
    > >From Singapore to Widnes
    > You better watch your step
    >
    > Broken noses hung up on the wall
    > Back slapping drinkers cheer the heavy weight brawl
    > So punch drunk they don't understand at all
    > You better watch your step
    >
    > Ev'ry night
    > Go out full of carnal(carnival) desires
    > End up in the closing time choirs
    >
    > When you're kicking in the car chrome
    > And you're drinking down the Eau de Cologne
    > And you're spitting out the Kodachrome
    > You better watch your step
    >
    > Bye
    > I send you all my regards
    > You're so tough
    > You're so hard
    > Listen to the hammers falling in the breaker's yard
    > You better watch your step
    > You better watch your step
    > Ooh, watch your step
    >
    > _________________________________________________________________
    > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
    > http://join.msn.com/?pagethatures/featuredemail
    >
    > + be me
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
  • Electronic Disturbance Theater | Sun Nov 10th 2002 1 a.m.
    Diane Ludin interviews Eddo Stern + "Gunning for Columbine"

    References: <20021109015255.23099.qmail@web10708.mail.yahoo.com> <v04210103b9f31c0bdf20@[192.168.1.7]> <3DCD7B5B.A824B834@devoid.co.uk>
    In-Reply-To: <3DCD7B5B.A824B834@devoid.co.uk>
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
    User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1
    X-Originating-IP: 80.24.6.224

    http://bbs.thing.net/

    Diane Ludin interviews Eddo Stern
    Showing "Sheik Attack" and
    Afghan War Rugs at Postmasters
    through November 16
    diane ludin - 11/08
    [interviews]

    http://bbs.thing.net/

    "Gunning for Columbine"
    "Bowling for Columbine"
    a film by Michael Moore
    by John Menick - 11/08
    [media]

    http://bbs.thing.net/
  • Candace Fujishige | Mon Nov 11th 2002 1 a.m.
    ART IN MOTION:
    THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA SCHOOL OF FINE ARTS' INTERNATIONAL FESTIVAL OF TIME-BASED MEDIA

    Greetings from AIM,

    As November flies past, the AIM IV: Interference Patterns entry deadline is rapidly approaching. I just wanted to send out a brief note reminding everyone that all entries to AIM IV must be postmarked by November 30, 2002.

    Accepted entries will be featured in the AIM IV: Interference Patterns exhibition at the Armory Northwest, Pasadena from February 15
  • netochka nezvanova | Tue Nov 12th 2002 1 a.m.
    >X-Loop: syndicate@anart.no
    >X-Sequence: 743
    >Precedence: list
    >X-no-archive: yes
    >List-Id: <syndicate@anart.no>
    >List-Help: <mailto:sympa@anart.no?subject=help>
    >List-Subscribe: <mailto:sympa@anart.no?subject=subscribe%20syndicate>
    >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:sympa@anart.no?subject=unsubscribe%20syndicate>
    >List-Post: <mailto:syndicate@anart.no>
    >List-Owner: <mailto:syndicate-request@anart.no>
    >List-Archive: <http://anart.no/sympa/arc/syndicate>
    >Subject: [syndicate] Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Care2 E-Card from mark tribe
    >Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1037088428-655-184"
    >
    >This is a multi-part message in MIME format...

    aaaaaa. mor d!g!tl nonzensz

    ! UANT 2 dr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    non.non.non. DR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! + ultra !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!vvvvvvvv

    ovr ur m!me 4matz

    ver! ver! fazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzztttttt

    unt!l !t = total! deztro!!!!!!!!ddddd

    non.non.non. u do not undrztnd.

    ! mean total! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!dddddtotal! deztro!!!!!!!!ddddd

    >------------=_1037088428-655-184
    >Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
    >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
    >
    >Hi Valery
    >It seems like you may have touched a nerve in Mr.Tribe.
    >A politician he is not.
    >
    >Cheers
    >Lee
    >
    >
    >
    >on 11/9/02 5:11 AM, valery grancher at vgranger@imaginet.fr wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> --- valery grancher a <E9>crit : > as a contribitor last 2 years I would
    >> like to
    >>> clarify one point to make my
    >>> decision this year :
    >>>
    >>> Rhizome campaign : is it a campaign for a non profit
    >>> organization? or for
    >>> mark Tribe artpiece ?
    >>
    >> herefater the ans wer I got from mark tribe, no comment, just one
    >> point: agressive isn't it ?
    >>
    >> I guess it is normal to ask regarding this statement in new langton,
    >> and the request in my email box to bring found and money, it is normal for
    >> me to mke clear if I'm sponsorizing a community through rhizome or Mark
    >> TRibe through rhizome ?
    >>
    >> I suggest nothing, i put closed to each other one demand to one
    >> statement from mark !
    >>
    >> so what's wrong ?
    >>
    >> we are under dictatorship ?
    >>
    >> mark reply :
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> ok i would reply in bulk to your bull, coz virst ov all i am a liar &
    >> a swine as an artpiece, coz i virst kick you out of rhizome and you give me
    >> money back all ze same, dare to sez ze reverse so i am found to sez your
    >> brain are kind of clay i could molt for doing my polpot pyramide, the rest
    >> ov my complit scorn zigurat to climb to the heaven of netart imbecility az
    >> netart would be done with all crane of the zuper cretinouz ov all rhizome
    >> subscriber, get it, zo i am found to claim rezponsability of zis social
    >> polspotting sculptur, the epitome would be all the super cretinouz ov my
    >> polpot sponzor community, i am a swine you are hypocritez i.e. you are
    >> froggy i am yankiz & we can do disgusting buziness and calling it 'art', so
    >> mizter granchez befor i kick in you head for a pass to zidane where is the
    >> probleme
    >>
    >>

    >befor i kick in you head

    letz dr!v mizter yanki kr!ket

    ue.ll z uho !z uear!ng dze trouzerz

    good ztr!kez l!ke dze thundrbolt
    [!n zerv!sz ov v!rtue b!enzur

    + a b!t ov ultra v!olensz
    = l!ghtz up juzt!sz
    l!ke a flash ov hap!nesz

    z - dze ztarz = sh!n!ng br!!!!!!!!!!ghhhhht

    [bkz ! = !n dze mood

    phpz !.ll tear out dze!r tonguez
    + dze! u!l konfusz !t u!th plzr

    bkz ! refer 2 m! zelv
    az abztrakt prov!densz

    + ! m dze reuard ov m! oun re!gn
    u!th no reuard but h!ztor! + dze prezent

    bkz ! d!zl!ke pouer - uat an apal!ng !dea
    + ! m kruel + u!cked

    + !f rezort 2 pure reazon !t = 2 z!lensz m! zelv
    + ! m !n dze mood

    ! hav a zoz!al kontrakt
    ! kanot akzept dz!ngz az dze! r
    bkz ! m !n a mood feroc!ouz
    + ! uant dzm brokn + !mposzd upon
    b! dze lau ov konkrete klar!t!

    fa!th !z not enough
    a pol!sz forsz !z needed az uel

    ! uant ur m!zer! 2 flour!sh
    az a god

    !m tak!ng u uear u uant 2 b

    l!ke a balloon ov heaven empt!

    and I u!l b ur truth
    I shl kreate u 4rom dze ordr ov dz!ngz

    u shl b good

    and u shl obe! m!

    4 I m u

    + u shl dr!nk m! 2 dze

    lazt
  • enrique rivera | Wed Nov 13th 2002 1 a.m.
    > i want to help you, but i don
  • Mark Tribe | Wed Nov 13th 2002 1 a.m.
    hi:

    sorry for the slow reply--i just got back from a few days offline. as
    rachel suggested, i didn't write that e-card.

    i agree with tim's response to valery. rhizome.org is first and foremost a
    nonprofit organization, but lately i've also started to think of it as a
    social sculpture, i.e. as a participatory art work in which speech and
    ideas form the raw materials in creating a transformative social space in
    which the boundaries between art and other things are blurred. i do think
    that this kind of interdisciplinary convergence is one of the chacteristic
    features of new media art in general, and net art in particular. etoy
    merges art and corporate commerce. rtmark merges art and political
    activism. joshua davis merges art and design. 0100101110101101.ORG merges
    art and everyday life. several net artists merge art and interface. is it
    really so problematic to think of rhizome.org as merging art and online
    community?

    -m

    At 09:15 AM 11/8/2002 -0500, t.whid wrote:
    >the two aren't mutually exclusive. rhizome could be both a non-profit org
    >and a mark tribe art piece. that's what's said in the statement below:
    >
    >though it would be a disservice to abstract
    >>Rhizome.org to the level of a conceptual art prank when, in fact, it has had
    >>a very real effect on the social lives of many new media artists and offers
    >>many practical services. This close-knit integration of a conceptual social
    >>work combined, inextricably, with practical real-world services is exemplary
    >>of how new media artists are sometimes able to play and work in the same
    >>media.
    >
    >rhizome exists in both conceptual spaces. this feature, coexistence in two
    >different conceptual realms, is prevalent in some of the more advanced
    >contemporary art imo.
    >
    >what's with the this-or-that demand?
    >
    >
    >>as a contribitor last 2 years I would like to clarify one point to make my
    >>decision this year :
    >>
    >>Rhizome campaign : is it a campaign for a non profit organization? or for
    >>mark Tribe artpiece ?
    >>Could you mind to make it clear ?
    >>I'm asking this regarding your statement on "day jobs" exhbition website at
    >>new langton art center in San Francisco .... I'm really surprised by it...
    >>(hereafter)
    >>
    >>I already sent a message to you and I didn't get any answer ... am i right ?
    >>could you mind to clarify this point ?
    >>
    >>hereafter on day jobs exhibitions statement !
    >>
    >>Mark Tribe
    >>Projects
    >>
    >>Day: Rhizome.org http://www.rhizome.org
    >>Night: Rhizome.org http://www.rhizome.org
    >>Mark Tribe's art work featured in this exhibition can be seen as performance
    >>as much as media art. Rhizome.org is an online community that Mark describes
    >>as "social sculpture" in the tradition of Bueys. Here, product is not as
    >>important as process, though it would be a disservice to abstract
    >>Rhizome.org to the level of a conceptual art prank when, in fact, it has had
    >>a very real effect on the social lives of many new media artists and offers
    >>many practical services. This close-knit integration of a conceptual social
    >>work combined, inextricably, with practical real-world services is exemplary
    >>of how new media artists are sometimes able to play and work in the same
    >>media. Since media is the built environment that we now live in full-time
    >>(as opposed to a weekend leisure destination), artists find it possible to
    >>move into the "main house" -- sometimes without anyone noticing them sneak
    >>in.
    >>
    >>-- Richard Rinehart"
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>----- Original Message -----
    >>From: "Mark Tribe" <mt@rhizome.org>
    >>To: <list@rhizome.org>
    >>Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 6:02 PM
    >>Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Charity CD Project
    >>
    >>
    >>> At 03:40 PM 11/6/2002 -0500, t.whid wrote:
    >>> >i think that mark was saying that rhizome couldn't give any resources to
    >>> >the project or sell it directly.
    >>>
    >>> exactly. i really do appreciate the generosity behind this and want to
    >>> thank everyone who is interested in volunteering for the project and
    >>> helping to raise funds for rhizome. i'm just saying that the best way to
    >>do
    >>> it is independently.
    >>>
    >>> >to mark:
    >>> >could the project use rhizome's logo and state that all proceeds will go
    >>> >to rhizome?
    >>>
    >>> you can certainly say that all or some of the proceeds will go to support
    >>> rhizome.org, but using the rhizome logo may lead people to believe that
    >>> it's a rhizome project. so maybe better not to.
    >>>
    >>> i'm sorry if my reaction has seemed dismissive. if you want to do
    >>something
    >>> to support rhizome, great! go for it!
    >>>
    >>> + be me
    >>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
    >>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >>> +
    >>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >>+ be me
    >>-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >>-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >>+
    >>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >--
    ><twhid>
    >http://www.mteww.com
    ></twhid>
    >+ be me
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
  • Rhizomer | Thu Nov 14th 2002 1 a.m.
    >i agree with tim's response to valery. rhizome.org is first and foremost a
    > nonprofit organization, but lately i've also started to think of it as a
    > social sculpture,

    the point is ethics and intellectual honesty, I guess regarding this message
    you are more naive than dishonest and it is quite funny...

    You cannot make a non profit organization by starting to say it is a
    collaborative project dedicated to a community and then when it is becoming
    more and more important on international level after having accepted money
    contributions worldwilde for such amount and then many art contribution in
    artbase...Really you cannot say now, you see now it is my artwork and this
    is a convergence ....

    Did you asked to your contriibutor if they agree to be a part of this
    convergence ?

    me I don't and I cannot accept to see my contributions done for a community
    start to be the tools for a personnal project ...In this case I have the
    feeling to be abused ...

    For example, never Wolfgang Stahele with thing project was unclear:

    From the begining to today, it is a social sculpture and I accepted to bring
    contributions because I accept to contribute to this project as social
    sculpture and the request was clear ....

    It is really a question of intellectual honesty and ethics...

    As a manager you cannot use after severals years anonym project financed
    worldwild as a final personnal focus ....

    if you cannot understand this point, I have nothing to add !!!! I don't need
    to make any more any comment !

    enjoy yourself

    Valery
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Mark Tribe" <mt@rhizome.org>
    To: <list@rhizome.org>
    Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 7:15 PM

    > hi:
    >
    > sorry for the slow reply--i just got back from a few days offline. as
    > rachel suggested, i didn't write that e-card.
    >
    > i agree with tim's response to valery. rhizome.org is first and foremost a
    > nonprofit organization, but lately i've also started to think of it as a
    > social sculpture, i.e. as a participatory art work in which speech and
    > ideas form the raw materials in creating a transformative social space in
    > which the boundaries between art and other things are blurred. i do think
    > that this kind of interdisciplinary convergence is one of the chacteristic
    > features of new media art in general, and net art in particular. etoy
    > merges art and corporate commerce. rtmark merges art and political
    > activism. joshua davis merges art and design. 0100101110101101.ORG merges
    > art and everyday life. several net artists merge art and interface. is it
    > really so problematic to think of rhizome.org as merging art and online
    > community?
    >
    > -m
    >
    > At 09:15 AM 11/8/2002 -0500, t.whid wrote:
    > >the two aren't mutually exclusive. rhizome could be both a non-profit org
    > >and a mark tribe art piece. that's what's said in the statement below:
    > >
    > >though it would be a disservice to abstract
    > >>Rhizome.org to the level of a conceptual art prank when, in fact, it has
    had
    > >>a very real effect on the social lives of many new media artists and
    offers
    > >>many practical services. This close-knit integration of a conceptual
    social
    > >>work combined, inextricably, with practical real-world services is
    exemplary
    > >>of how new media artists are sometimes able to play and work in the same
    > >>media.
    > >
    > >rhizome exists in both conceptual spaces. this feature, coexistence in
    two
    > >different conceptual realms, is prevalent in some of the more advanced
    > >contemporary art imo.
    > >
    > >what's with the this-or-that demand?
    > >
    > >
    > >>as a contribitor last 2 years I would like to clarify one point to make
    my
    > >>decision this year :
    > >>
    > >>Rhizome campaign : is it a campaign for a non profit organization? or
    for
    > >>mark Tribe artpiece ?
    > >>Could you mind to make it clear ?
    > >>I'm asking this regarding your statement on "day jobs" exhbition website
    at
    > >>new langton art center in San Francisco .... I'm really surprised by
    it...
    > >>(hereafter)
    > >>
    > >>I already sent a message to you and I didn't get any answer ... am i
    right ?
    > >>could you mind to clarify this point ?
    > >>
    > >>hereafter on day jobs exhibitions statement !
    > >>
    > >>Mark Tribe
    > >>Projects
    > >>
    > >>Day: Rhizome.org http://www.rhizome.org
    > >>Night: Rhizome.org http://www.rhizome.org
    > >>Mark Tribe's art work featured in this exhibition can be seen as
    performance
    > >>as much as media art. Rhizome.org is an online community that Mark
    describes
    > >>as "social sculpture" in the tradition of Bueys. Here, product is not as
    > >>important as process, though it would be a disservice to abstract
    > >>Rhizome.org to the level of a conceptual art prank when, in fact, it has
    had
    > >>a very real effect on the social lives of many new media artists and
    offers
    > >>many practical services. This close-knit integration of a conceptual
    social
    > >>work combined, inextricably, with practical real-world services is
    exemplary
    > >>of how new media artists are sometimes able to play and work in the same
    > >>media. Since media is the built environment that we now live in
    full-time
    > >>(as opposed to a weekend leisure destination), artists find it possible
    to
    > >>move into the "main house" -- sometimes without anyone noticing them
    sneak
    > >>in.
    > >>
    > >>-- Richard Rinehart"
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>----- Original Message -----
    > >>From: "Mark Tribe" <mt@rhizome.org>
    > >>To: <list@rhizome.org>
    > >>Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 6:02 PM
    > >>Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Charity CD Project
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>> At 03:40 PM 11/6/2002 -0500, t.whid wrote:
    > >>> >i think that mark was saying that rhizome couldn't give any
    resources to
    > >>> >the project or sell it directly.
    > >>>
    > >>> exactly. i really do appreciate the generosity behind this and want
    to
    > >>> thank everyone who is interested in volunteering for the project and
    > >>> helping to raise funds for rhizome. i'm just saying that the best way
    to
    > >>do
    > >>> it is independently.
    > >>>
    > >>> >to mark:
    > >>> >could the project use rhizome's logo and state that all proceeds
    will go
    > >>> >to rhizome?
    > >>>
    > >>> you can certainly say that all or some of the proceeds will go to
    support
    > >>> rhizome.org, but using the rhizome logo may lead people to believe
    that
    > >>> it's a rhizome project. so maybe better not to.
    > >>>
    > >>> i'm sorry if my reaction has seemed dismissive. if you want to do
    > >>something
    > >>> to support rhizome, great! go for it!
    > >>>
    > >>> + be me
    > >>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > >>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > >>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > >>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > >>> +
    > >>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > >>> Membership Agreement available online at
    http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>+ be me
    > >>-> post: list@rhizome.org
    > >>-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > >>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > >>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > >>+
    > >>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > >>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > >
    > >--
    > ><twhid>
    > >http://www.mteww.com
    > ></twhid>
    > >+ be me
    > >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    > >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > >+
    > >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    > + KNORRRRRRR
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >
    >
  • Ivan Pope | Thu Nov 14th 2002 1 a.m.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: valery grancher <vgranger@imaginet.fr>

    > You cannot make a non profit organization by starting to say it is a
    > collaborative project dedicated to a community and then when it is
    becoming
    > more and more important on international level after having accepted money
    > contributions worldwilde for such amount and then many art contribution in
    > artbase...Really you cannot say now, you see now it is my artwork and this
    > is a convergence ....

    Firstly, in the artworld, I don't understand where this word 'cannot' comes
    from. There is no 'cannot'. Things that you think 'cannot' happen are the
    meat and potatoes of artists, and credit to us for that.
    Secondly, as Mark states, he has not claimed Rhizome as 'his' artwork. He
    didn't even write the 'social sculpture' text.
    Thirdly, even if he did, there should be no problem with Mark asserting
    whatever he wants. It is for the viewer to decide whether his claims have
    merits. They would not have merits simply by their assertion.

    > me I don't and I cannot accept to see my contributions done for a
    community
    > start to be the tools for a personnal project ...In this case I have the
    > feeling to be abused ...

    Well, I suggest you get off your high horse. Every human activity is a
    personal project of some sort. Everyone has an agenda. If we want to engage,
    we are in other people's projects.
    Rather than simply assert high dudgeon, it might be useful to interrogate
    the claim that Rhizome is 'social sculpture'.

    Cheers,
    Ivan
  • jim | Thu Nov 14th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    this is great.
  • Rhizomer | Thu Nov 14th 2002 1 a.m.
    ....
    >
    > Firstly, in the artworld, I don't understand where this word 'cannot'
    comes
    > from. There is no 'cannot'. Things that you think 'cannot' happen are the
    > meat and potatoes of artists, and credit to us for that.
    > Secondly, as Mark states, he has not claimed Rhizome as 'his' artwork. He
    > didn't even write the 'social sculpture' text.
    > Thirdly, even if he did, there should be no problem with Mark asserting
    > whatever he wants. It is for the viewer to decide whether his claims have
    > merits. They would not have merits simply by their assertion.

    so could you mind to explain why we can see in a collective art show with
    personnal piece by artist rhizome by mark tribe ?
    It was an artshow in art center so ?

    its was shown in newlangton as an art piece !

    and I can quote this sentence from Mark:
    >i agree with tim's response to valery. rhizome.org is first and foremost a
    > nonprofit organization, but lately i've also started to think of it as a
    > social sculpture,

    from his email yesterday !!!

    so ? it is clear

    and if he deosn't want why he choosed rhizome as art peice under mark tribe
    name for this show ?
    why not another piece ?
    common, you think people are stupid, stop to justify it 's getting worst and
    worst ...

    now he's trying to escape from what he did to find excuse,

    really so funny who is enough naive to beleuive these bullshit

    ha ha

    Valery
  • Rachel Greene | Thu Nov 14th 2002 1 a.m.
    valery, your critique relies on a very traditional understanding of 'artist'
    as author -- a notion that is actually in extreme conflict with the internal
    content and structure of rhizome. how mark represents rhizome in the public,
    including his statement for langton, has nothing to do with the myth of the
    genius artist you're invoking to criticise him. (i would also point out that
    looking at mark's body of work, most of it, formally, and in terms of its
    internal content, is collaborative.)

    we try very hard here to nurture a non-hierarchical and participatory
    project in which those artist/auteur/founder roles are not supported by the
    functioning and content of rhizome. and we are very open about who we are...
    about our finances -- the ways we make money, raise money and spend money.
    since we haven't been able to raise money from our own community, our
    organizational survival has depended on compromising some of these
    idealistic values, which we recognize.

    but these anti-hierarchical, collaborative values have ALWAYS been stated
    aspects of rhizome. and there is some self-interest at work in this, by mark
    and by me, but because we have a stake in the success of rhizome, of new
    media art, in our colleauges, peers, and future generations of artists and
    critics.

    > ....
    >>
    >> Firstly, in the artworld, I don't understand where this word 'cannot'
    > comes
    >> from. There is no 'cannot'. Things that you think 'cannot' happen are the
    >> meat and potatoes of artists, and credit to us for that.
    >> Secondly, as Mark states, he has not claimed Rhizome as 'his' artwork. He
    >> didn't even write the 'social sculpture' text.
    >> Thirdly, even if he did, there should be no problem with Mark asserting
    >> whatever he wants. It is for the viewer to decide whether his claims have
    >> merits. They would not have merits simply by their assertion.
    >
    > so could you mind to explain why we can see in a collective art show with
    > personnal piece by artist rhizome by mark tribe ?
    > It was an artshow in art center so ?
    >
    > its was shown in newlangton as an art piece !
    >
    > and I can quote this sentence from Mark:
    >> i agree with tim's response to valery. rhizome.org is first and foremost a
    >> nonprofit organization, but lately i've also started to think of it as a
    >> social sculpture,
    >
    > from his email yesterday !!!
    >
    > so ? it is clear
    >
    > and if he deosn't want why he choosed rhizome as art peice under mark tribe
    > name for this show ?
    > why not another piece ?
    > common, you think people are stupid, stop to justify it 's getting worst and
    > worst ...
    >
    > now he's trying to escape from what he did to find excuse,
    >
    > really so funny who is enough naive to beleuive these bullshit
    >
    > ha ha
    >
    >
    > Valery
    >
    >
    > + the best is the enemy of the good
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
  • Ivan Pope | Thu Nov 14th 2002 1 a.m.
    > From: "valery grancher" <vgranger@imaginet.fr>

    >
    > and I can quote this sentence from Mark:
    >> i agree with tim's response to valery. rhizome.org is first and foremost a
    >> nonprofit organization, but lately i've also started to think of it as a
    >> social sculpture,
    >
    > from his email yesterday !!!
    >
    > so ? it is clear
    Well, I think of Rhizome as my wife, but that dont make it so. Come on, even
    if Mark was shouting from the rooftops that Rhizome was a personal art
    project where he had installed a bunch of zombies to have creative
    conversations, that dont make it so. Get off your high horse and tell us
    your view of Rhizome. Cheers, Ivan
  • netochka nezvanova | Thu Nov 14th 2002 1 a.m.
    >>zuperbl! elegant+++
    >
    >i'll b ur mirror
    i'll b ur mirror ...

    >>ador !t

    ... !nf!nt penetraz!on

    >and... how are u ?

    letz b!ozkulpt!!!!!!

    >u have been very quiet lately -
    >am assuming due to sickly74 legal matters.

    a haaaaaaa. perfekt!ng m! klauz 4 mak$!mum zkrrrrrrrrratch + j!ngl bl.bl.blesz

    u la la. b!ozkulpt!ng !z beaut!fl !n all poz!z!onz

    >hope that is proceeding well.
    >
    >am personally apalled @ the level of direct copy-paste activity
    >displayed in Jitter.

    konzum!ng > g!glb!tz re: z!kl!ng74 uel aged atorne! + he = .!t
    sol+la _ uat dze hhhhhhhllllll - plaz!ng handz 2gedzr + gezt!kulat!ng mama m!!!!!!!!aaaaa

    >nearly a direct object for object copy.
    >+ some auvi objects were duplicated as well.

    !t = amuzant due 2 t!me overlap.
    = feelz az trvl!ng bak !n 2 m! l!f uear!ng french fr!!!!!ez

    = !nkred!bl dzat an! 1 ud ekzpend tzo much emplo!!!ek energ!e
    on 01 outdatd konzept. uel. = shl take 01 ekzpenz!v foto.

    >the term 'clumsily inferior' comes to mind.
    >
    >"rows & columns"... please. (rolls eyes theatrically)

    apple.com ["rows & columns"] zm!lez at dze c74 urap urap memegardnz
    rouz + rouz ov fat fat fat fat

    >apparently - c74 forgot to enclose their m9nds in 'smart quotes'.
    >
    >
    >o1 legal zmak = appropriate.
    >their behavior is far too blatant & ...uninspired.
    >(or rather - ultra-inspired by nato)
    >
    >
    >hope u can put all of this unpleasantness behind u soon.

    zloul! + ellllllllllllllllllllllooooooooooonnnnn ooopz krasch
    kolekt all dze p!ezez

    >friendlylick

    ultra-inspired. du = ma! kont!nue
    + ! shl upload dze zkr!!!!!!!!!!!!.mzzzzz [= ma! cheaat + zubzt!tut !t u!th 2 n!ghtz pr!or .... schhhhhhh
  • netochka nezvanova | Fri Nov 15th 2002 1 a.m.
    >> a non.
    >> ma!z !t != alterz dze ztate ov rh!zome.org.
    >>
    >> az all art organ!zaz!on rh!zome.org = korporat begarz
    >>
    >
    >May I ask your opinion of Corporate Beggars?

    v!raj _____...

    01 u!fe 4 01 huzband
    01 ma!d 4 01 ent!r fam!l!
    01 zekretar! 4 01 ent!r f!rm
    ... [gezt!kulaz!e] und tzo va!tr

    >May I ask your opinion of Corporate Beggars?

    zuposz !t !z a l!f zt!le ma!z
    = 01 ultra tr!zt 1 ___... uen v!eud
    4rom outz!de dze art velt. outz!de due 2
    mozt art relatd gala zpektaklz = frekuentd b!
    z!m!larl! domezt!katd perzonagez [2 b pol!te]
    z!ng!ng dze latezt refra!n hop!ng 4 a handout.

    d!f!klt komprehend!ng hou 1 kan b zat!zf!ed
    u!th zuch zrv!le kompan! [part!kularl! !f 1 !z 2x

    perzonal! = much prfr mor dangerouz l!f 4rmz [= true dzat mozt = th!evez
    + unread 1nz at dzat ma!z ... at ver! leazt 1 !z forszd 2 rema!n auake

    >>>>> -m
    >>
    >> uork!ng dze ztreetz r u +?

    = uat hav azkd dze pol!ze! uho tr!umfantl! handd m! a v.naaaazzzzt!!! zpeed!ng t!ket
    he glor!ouzl! anzuerd - !ez !!!

    je zper dze! = ut!l!sz dze mone! 2 updat dze!r un!formz. != v.zekz!

    >it's a long story

    aaaa ... tu za!z = zuzpkt not ever! 1 kan ___... aaa shl ue za! _ a e + o engage !n zuch h!gh prof!l
    + !nter perzonl korporat rout!nz ___... alora = 01 kompl!mnt !n 01 sensz ... cezt vra! cezt vra!

    godard: ! took a greaaaaat !nterezt !n zuch h!gh prof!l + !nter perzonl korporat rout!nz

    pasol!n!: ou! ou!. mo! auss! !!!!!!!!!

    deta!l zpongez - zuept aua!
  • netochka nezvanova | Fri Nov 15th 2002 1 a.m.
    >> >but this kind of
    >> >message is boring.
    >>
    >> Women can be boring [NN included]
    >> but generally speaking, their lives are more
    >> interesting than that of nations.
    >> This we deduce from the countless scaffolds and
    >> altars erected by miserable men
    >> on a day of revelation
    >
    > I am starting to believe that you do not like men,
    >integer.

    !t !z true dzat ! m v.glad ! m not a g!rl

    >Have you ever wondered why there are testes
    >in testament?

    zuzpkt dze! uerent chozen 4 dze!r beaut! tzo dze r!zn = l!kl! 01 odr

    >> >yawn -
    >>
    >> Good Morning Paul
    >>
    >> Let us celebrate reason together. Are you ready to
    >> fall
    >> Good. The free mind readily accepts what is
    >> necessary.
    >
    > have you accepted what is necessary, integer? What
    >is the freedom for which you strive? The freedom for
    >survival or the freedom for waste?

    all ztonez r kut 2 konztrukt dze ztruktr ov freedom.
    01 ma! konztrukt 01 palasz andor 01 tomb 4rom dze zame ztonez.

    >Good Morning

    !t !z uat makez morn!ngz tzo del!z!ouz
  • netochka nezvanova | Sat Nov 16th 2002 1 a.m.
    >Ciprian,

    karel [(youp!++)

    >when will you be finally real?

    http://us.imdb.com/Title?0291502

    >[when can i start loving you?]

    0+0 dez!r 2 b lvd. m z!mpl! pa!ng dze pr!sz 4 publ!k l!f

    ! m > l!ke prouzt dzn geert

    -

    >(youp!++)

    http://www.m9ndfukc.org/data/picz/youp!++.jpg

    >+ takk + + takk + + takk +

    !tz good 2 zensz ur zm!le

    >1001 l!ly mmmoonz

    dze !dea ov

    a

    k * * * * *
    *

    * * * * * *
    *
    * * * * *
    * * *
  • netochka nezvanova | Sat Nov 16th 2002 1 a.m.
    >http://us.imdb.com/Title?0291502

    !!!!! z!!!!k

    had ment http://us.imdb.com/Title?0073817
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sun Nov 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Ivan Pope wrote:

    > Firstly, in the artworld, I don't understand where this word 'cannot' comes
    > from. There is no 'cannot'.

    Yes, there is. The 'artworld' is not dimplomatic immunity for
    idiocy and abuse of the work of others, as well as other humans.
    You certainly 'cannot'. If you want to see an artworld cannot,
    Ian Brady (?) in 1960-70s murdered over 20 children, made a
    recording of a young child dying being tortured, mixed it as
    a Chrismas carol and pressed it as a record. But I suppose
    that's fine with you?

    Could you be so dense as to not realize that the results of
    a human effort are attached to a BEING or do you simply not care?
    The products of various media are the results of at least_
    energetic efforts on parts of others, and if you cannot understand
    the concept that you cannot_ take the work of a being who has
    made effort in working on itself and creating something, and present it
    as yours (ie, consider someone sneaking into a private gallery,
    stealing the artwork, and opening a gallery in the next city)--
    something known also as attempting to 'shine' with or exploit_
    another's work--then you have a very severe problem.

    Among other things, Mark Tribe's behavior is akin to a benefactor
    who purchases a piece of artwork and then exhibits it as his own.

    Why do you attempt to peddle your childish ignorance as some sort of
    valid opinion?

    > Things that you think 'cannot' happen are the meat and potatoes of
    > artists, and credit to us for that.

    Absolute bullshit. Not tomention that an 'artist' you are not,
    because an artist is someone with a bit more personal development
    than anyone who can draw well, or splatter paint on canvas, or
    push buttons on a synthesizer, or play the fiddle.

    > Secondly, as Mark states, he has not claimed Rhizome as 'his' artwork.
    > He didn't even write the 'social sculpture' text.

    And his responsibility is where? And I don't see Mark Tribe
    contacting the exhibit and requesting that it be corrected?

    > Thirdly, even if he did, there should be no problem with Mark asserting
    > whatever he wants.

    This is complete nonsense. Only delusional lunatics 'assert whatever
    they want'. Of course, considering the idiotic state of disconnectedness
    of speech from anything characteristic of 'modern' illiterate apes,
    this sort of psychotic delusional fantasizing is de rigeur.
    Nevertheless, your typical oversimplification of the situation is
    typical of your simpleton idiocy: Mark Tribe is not making an
    'assertion'--he is presenting rhizome as his own work. Secondly,
    this 'assertion' concerns a number of humans other than himself,
    as well as a public presentation of something.

    > It is for the viewer to decide whether his claims have
    > merits. They would not have merits simply by their assertion.

    No, it isn't. And this is infantile. This all amounts to, 'anyone
    can lie and manipulate others as he pleases--it's not my fault
    that they're so gullible'.

    > > me I don't and I cannot accept to see my contributions done for a
    > community
    > > start to be the tools for a personnal project ...In this case I have the
    > > feeling to be abused ...
    >
    > Well, I suggest you get off your high horse.

    Except for the only one on a 'high horse' is you. Valery's comments are
    quite valid.

    > Every human activity is a personal project of some sort.

    No, this is presented as a non-profit beneficiary organization.
    If you cannot understand the difference between non-profit
    community and attempting to use_ humans as 'slaves' that is your
    own problem.

    > Everyone has an agenda.

    It's just that simple isn't it? Total abrogation of responsibility.

    > If we want to engage, we are in other people's projects.

    No 'we' aren't. And avoid making cheap sloganish blanket
    dictatorial statements delineating 'everyone's' behavior.

    > Rather than simply assert high dudgeon,

    Which is not what was being done.

    >it might be useful to interrogate the claim that Rhizome is 'social sculpture'.

    No, it mightn't. That's a very cheap--and 'culturally programmatic'
    (a particularly malicious one) response, attributable to pond-scum
    from certain genetic backgrounds.

    Humans are not 'muppets' in anyone's agendas: that is exclusively
    an egotistical delusion, and the only reason why they continue acting
    'as if this is possible' (spinning their wheels) is because they're
    repeatedy told that it IS possible.

    > Cheers,

    Insincerity.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • netochka nezvanova | Sun Nov 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    Alan Sondheim <sondheim@panix.com>

    >the guardian: the night; terror my hits mind in begins middle pain of in
    >night; the my terror mind hits begins in its the pain middle left thought:

    won't you let yourself be found

    my less than subtle way of saying

    why

    if a chance you get

    do let me know

    what it is you think

    before i begin

    have to must apply
    for the writing end
  • netochka nezvanova | Sun Nov 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    >> before i begin
    >>
    >
    >thinking is contamination.

    i do not know any more than before

    >> won't you let yourself be found
    >
    >there's nowhere to hide

    memory + forgetfulness have the same source
    das enzige land das ich moeglich liebe ist das meer

    [nettime occident swastika passport (ugl! jankeez)] money. slips. through. my. fingertips
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sun Nov 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Rachel Greene wrote:

    > valery, your critique relies on a very traditional understanding of 'artist'
    > as author -- a notion that is actually in extreme conflict with the internal
    > content and structure of rhizome. how mark represents rhizome in the public,
    > including his statement for langton, has nothing to do with the myth of the
    > genius artist you're invoking to criticise him.

    Except for Valery isn't invoking any such myth.
    Nor is a 'genius artist' a myth, not in the sense that you employ
    the word. Yves Klein, is hardly a 'myth'.

    > (i would also point out that
    > looking at mark's body of work, most of it, formally, and in terms of its
    > internal content, is collaborative.)

    Collaboration is for those who can collaborate. Among other things,
    collaboration includes mutual consent and respect: neither of which
    mark is 'guilty of'. Pardon me if I put 'artistic director and sculptor
    of rhizome.org' on my resume, and that exhibit listed as part of
    'my exhibit list'. In fact, I heartily recommend that anyone subscribed
    does so--after all, it's a collaboration--and thank you Mark Tribe for
    doing all the work.

    > we try very hard here to nurture a non-hierarchical

    With superusers, backhanded tactics, and patronizing demands for
    explanations. Thanks, I'll have another nartini on rhizome's bill, thank
    you.

    > and participatory
    > project in which those artist/auteur/founder roles are not supported by the
    > functioning and content of rhizome.

    But of course. Forget that a human needs to PRACTICE FOR YEARS
    before executing that one like a VIRTUOSO. Talent? what's that?
    Why work when you can steal? Why are petty theft attempts attempted
    to be wrapped in pseudo-nice packaging?

    And pray say, what are you going to resort to: murder of the author?
    Don't you realise that this loss of self is an INDIVIDUAL affair,
    and it is NOTHING that you can force on other humans? Your behavior
    is no better than dark Age Inquisition methods of enforcing poverty,
    abstainment from sex, and sadism because Jesus said you have to suffer,
    but hey who cares that he meant a DIFFERENT kind of suffering?

    Don't you understand_ that loss of the ego (which is behind all these
    artistic theories you are quoting) originated as a VOLUNTARY exercise
    among the involved artists, as a way to overcome their own--while
    what you are preaching_ is cheap dictatorial bullshit, while
    rhizome is feeding on its community, much like a fat faux-priest
    charming a bunch of Sunday ladies? Pardon me, if you fail
    to understand with your ignorant illiteracy that the overcoming of the
    ego is a step towards establishment of true_ individuality, not
    reducing humans to a bunch of cattle? And that neither you, nor
    Mark Tribe have the ability_ to do so?

    Why is it that new media art seems to be a 'forum' where everyone
    plays psyche-doctor and savior messiah, and nobody ever bothers
    to look at THEMSELVES and 'heal' themselves? Why is it that if any
    of you were put on a street cormer and forced stripped of your
    'art-babble' you'd be regarded as manaical-lunatics (and I don't
    mean of the 'good' surreal-kind of madness), but here
    you fancy that sort of behavior ok?

    Why is it so difficult to grasp that none of these things are to be done
    against the person's individual volition, and what's more they CANNOT
    be done against it? The only thing that results is simply: abuse,
    and in the worst case scenario breaking of the human involved?
    To provide a grounds for community requires a very great ability
    to allow the individual essense to be_ and develop (and that includes
    assistance with problems) and not crushing_ of this, which is what
    this list is majorly involved in?

    > and we are very open about who we are...

    Bla bla. You're flat saintly icons.

    > about our finances -- the ways we make money, raise money and spend money.
    > since we haven't been able to raise money from our own community, our
    > organizational survival has depended on compromising some of these
    > idealistic values, which we recognize.

    Oh no, you could have asked first. And you're not compromising
    'values'--you're compromising others involved in this situation.
    I'm not sure why mistreatment is attempted to be passed on as '
    something about values'. Great moralistic subjugation there.

    > but these anti-hierarchical, collaborative values have ALWAYS been stated
    > aspects of rhizome.

    As if. Just like the US Constitution states the freedom of pursuit of
    happiness. The souvereign authority of the individual hasn't got
    ANYTHING to do with 'hierarchy' and if you knew anything about
    COLLABOARATION instead of forced cooperative farming, you'd know
    that true collaboration doesn't happen at the expense of another.
    Leeching, vampirism, and parasitism do. Neither are 'collaboration'
    no matter how much you 'state it' wherever you please.

    The idea of non-hierarchical collaboration besides only stems
    from the equality of human 'hearts' or 'souls'--and among other
    things implies not attempting to parasitise the energies of those
    first, and secondarily is only one half of the apple, the secondary
    being the spirit which IS hierarchical. Aside from the brain
    obsession, the murder of the spirit in order to conflate the ego
    and soul (which results in a condition of being food for ego-, or
    ego-spirit configurations who pass this sate on as 'hell') is
    very much a serious wstern_ problem--while the east does the opposite
    (murder of soul and conflation of spirit-ego (NN for example,
    and so is the dalai lama) (nevermind the brits--they have a speciality
    of murdering it all), and a major one, peddled about with
    soft spots, and 'giving' and 'self-sacrifice' and martyrdom.
    If you want a real 'reason' why the states were bombed on an energetic
    level, it is because my dearest, you're the freshest energetic cows.
    All others have been ravaged by energetic vampirism, wars,
    and exploitation: and here you are crippling yourselves under
    some pseudo-commune(istic) idiocy. Whether you are prepared
    to accept this yet or not, it has always_ been a matter of
    'energy' and money, 'power' and various other structures (tech.)
    have always been as methods for acquiring that. Not to mention
    that your government has always been a puppet of international
    financial and military complexes, and even so whats the most
    intelligent response to 9/11? Bush bashing and cheap politicking.
    What are the odds that Bush is being paid off to play the scapegoat?
    It's all art, you know >:) What a pity that 'artists' on rhizome
    fancy that those statements were made as some sort of propetory
    of 'artists' rather than a glean of intelligence which would
    engender the glimpse of understanding that the statement is a matter
    of putting responsibility for one's being into one's own hands,
    which is the primary vehicle for freedom. But no, let's
    all surrender our souls into some collective feeding slugpool,
    and crush the spirits in some neo-tekno strobe-gascamp
    (you have a choice between communist or fascist, as having a choice
    wouldn't interrupt your delusional sense of having freedom to act,
    and free will, and ability to choose), hey sure? It pays too you know.
    It's very fashionable to be a martyr. We could have Joseph McElroy
    as poster-boy for the revolution, teaching us about 'evil hawks'
    (attempting to induce spirit-fear) and 'giving' (as if each
    human isn't given enough energy if they don't piss it away).

    To make matters even worse, 'money' 'power' and 'tech' are tools
    designed by those interested in seeing 'weak' human beings, and
    here you are, 2 year olds running with 'guns' and bashing each other
    over the heads 'we hav power' playing with toys you don't understand,
    and moreso in some cases designed especially to damage you
    (yes it can be done, just like martial arts (esp. karate) are
    designed to cripple the practicioner). I'm not advocating
    poverty or lack of power by the way, but not knowing your
    tools THOROUGHLY is a bit like running around bragging about
    a handgranade before it explodes in your hand.

    > and there is some self-interest at work in this, by mark
    > and by me, but because we have a stake in the success of rhizome,

    U hu. It's all done 'for the sake of rhizome'.

    > of new media art, in our colleauges, peers, and future generations of
    > artists and critics.

    Sob. Such martyrs. Pass me the donation brass dish please,
    this performance has truly moved me.
  • netochka nezvanova | Sun Nov 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>

    > I'm not sure why non-physical 'violence' is regarded as 'just fine.'

    xy -> konztrukz!on [uorkerz
    2x -> deztrukz!on [zold!erz

    `v!olensz` = trez trez beau

    = dze ent!r h!ztor! ov human k!nd = 01 prolongd f!ght 2 death
    4 dze konkuezt ov un!vrzl prezt!ge + abs.pouer

    d!sz !z 4 - 01 human kannot rekogn!sz !tzelv
    !t = muzt b rekogn!szd b! 01 odr human be!ng
    [d!sz makez dze var!ouz ueztern adm!n. pz!kopathz v.z!!!!!!!!!!!!k
    hallo andreas broeckblp + etc etc ugl! cucuz]

    v!olensz !z uat zeparatez humanz. !e. an!malz u!th h!gher ordr konzc!ouznesz
    4rom dzoze an!malz u!th !med!at knouledge ov dze velt.

    unzrtn about dze okz!dent ma!z = !n dze eazt ue f!nd human an!malz
    zekz!er dzn odrz - !e. ue f!nd v!olensz zekz!

    altzo = "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    ma! determ!n uat t!pe ov an!mal he = !z +
    trvl bak 2 uork ____+ remember - arbe!t macht ganz gluckl!ch + fre! !!!!!!!!

    nn - ultra entangl!ng dze model z!t!zn [u!th an emphaz!z on z!mpl!.!nfer!or xyz] velt+++
  • netochka nezvanova | Sun Nov 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    apendagez

    >d!sz !z 4 - 01 human kannot rekogn!sz !tzelv
    >!t = muzt b rekogn!szd b! 01 odr human be!ng

    naturl!ch = dze fakt dzat 01 konsc!ouznesz
    dez!rz dze el!m!naz!on ov 01 odr = abzurd
    ma!z dze konsc!ouznesz = 1x v!ruz [or law depend!ng u!ch autoztrada 01 prfrz

    d!sz !z uat makez lv tzo del!z!ouz
    zekz auss!

    !t !z b! deztrukz!on dzat ue reach our l!m!tz

    ue deztro! tzo az 2 l!f our zelvz

    kome ca

    `because great are the ends which are abolished and articulate is the system which freed
    you Paul

    et aussi - http://www.m9ndfukc.com/b5c98/zekuensz/3.gif.hTmL

    This is what is unforgivable in you.
    You are free`

    + az ever! ch!ld knouz
    !t !z eaz!er 2 g!v
    dzn 2 take

    laztl!

    uen dze e!ez ov dze `zp!r!t` ko!nz!de u!th dze e!ez ov dze bod!
    each !nd!v!dual konsc!ouznesz shl b 01 m!ror reflekt!ng 01 odr m!ror
    ! n f ! n ! t ! n f ! n ! t ! n f ! n ! t ! n f ! n ! t

    ztream through `m!`

    [ua! t!ng

    -
    -
    -

    /_/
    /
    / i should like to be a human plant
    / __
    __/
    i will shed leaves in the shade
    \_ because i like stepping on bugs

    *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--
    Netochka Nezvanova nezvanova@eusocial.com
    http://www.eusocial.com

    http://www.ggttctttat.com/!
    n r . 5 !!! http://steim.nl/leaves/petalz
    *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- --*--*--*--*--*--*--
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sun Nov 17th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 integer@www.god-emil.dk wrote:

    > > I'm not sure why non-physical 'violence' is regarded as 'just fine.'
    >
    >
    > xy -> konztrukz!on [uorkerz
    > 2x -> deztrukz!on [zold!erz

    What a shame that you attempt to slide on the surface,
    but the intent of that was not to 'inspire' pointification.
    Apropos your 'commentary'--which comes from your memory, ne?

    I'm glad you've decided to speak (again).
    Unfortunately the above is nonsense.
    Has never been the case.

    > `v!olensz` = trez trez beau

    Violence dearest, is the leeching undermining mechanism
    of the unconscious / asleep human. 2x or xy.
    Shall we discuss the slot of asleep 2x 'eastern' robots
    in 'weztern' mechanizms, a perfectly fitted slot?

    > = dze ent!r h!ztor! ov human k!nd = 01 prolongd f!ght 2 death
    > 4 dze konkuezt ov un!vrzl prezt!ge + abs.pouer

    Actually no. This is the history of the recent_ mediocre.
    You cannot have possibly forgotten the others, can you?

    > d!sz !z 4 - 01 human kannot rekogn!sz !tzelv
    > !t = muzt b rekogn!szd b! 01 odr human be!ng

    Ignoranse of self-realization 'cannot' does not constitute.
    Immaturity and narcissism are something altogether else.

    > [d!sz makez dze var!ouz ueztern adm!n. pz!kopathz v.z!!!!!!!!!!!!k
    > hallo andreas broeckblp + etc etc ugl! cucuz]

    Seeking the mirror reflection is not a 'western' or 'eastern'
    phenomenon, and were you to acquaint yourself with the 'west'
    you'd find civilizations pre-dating the 'east'.
    Why do you always make it into a dualities competition, dearest?

    > v!olensz !z uat zeparatez humanz. !e. an!malz u!th h!gher ordr konzc!ouznesz
    > 4rom dzoze an!malz u!th !med!at knouledge ov dze velt.

    Meaningless.

    > unzrtn about dze okz!dent ma!z = !n dze eazt ue f!nd human an!malz
    > zekz!er dzn odrz - !e. ue f!nd v!olensz zekz!

    I'm sorry dearest, but this is not 'the east'. In any capacity.
    You confuse violence with higher order impulses. How unfortunate.

    > altzo = "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    > ma! determ!n uat t!pe ov an!mal he = !z +
    > trvl bak 2 uork ____+ remember - arbe!t macht ganz gluckl!ch + fre! !!!!!!!!

    No, thank you dearest. Your calculations are off the mark.
    Way off the mark.

    The pleasure is all mine, however.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • netochka nezvanova | Mon Nov 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>

    >> naturl!ch = dze fakt dzat 01 konsc!ouznesz
    >> dez!rz dze el!m!naz!on ov 01 odr = abzurd
    >> ma!z dze konsc!ouznesz = 1x v!ruz [or law depend!ng u!ch autoztrada 01 prfrz
    >
    > Which is complete nonsense.

    !n dze velt ov xy ego
    dzere = 0+0 zpasz 4 2x real!t!

    >> !t !z b! deztrukz!on dzat ue reach our l!m!tz
    >
    > Meaningless, and failing beauty.

    do u hav a blak d!amond betu!n ur legz

    >> each !nd!v!dual konsc!ouznesz shl b 01 m!ror reflekt!ng 01 odr m!ror
    >> ! n f ! n ! t ! n f ! n ! t ! n f ! n ! t ! n f ! n ! t
    >
    > No, nothing of the sort really happens, even though
    > you're just vaguely 'touching' on something that you do not
    > understand. With the 'e!ez' of the spirit one SEES and KNOWS
    > that to damage another is to 2x damage onself.

    ever! xy haz damaged at leazt 01 2x

    > That is, the state you allude to, is nothing that you've experienced
    > directly.
    >
    > Fortunately consciousness is very prec!s--unlike your vague 'poetic'
    > allusions.
    >
    > I stream through you not.

    shl ! deztro! u [YES] [PLEASE]
  • Vijay Pattisapu | Mon Nov 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    KandinkiD42: Seeking the mirror reflection is not a 'western' or 'eastern'
    phenomenon, and were you to acquaint yourself with the 'west'
    you'd find civilizations pre-dating the 'east'.
    Why do you always make it into a dualities competition, dearest?

    Example?

    >Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:43:40 -0800 (PST)
    > "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org> <list@rhizome.org>Reply-To: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    >
    >On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 integer@www.god-emil.dk wrote:
    >
    >> > I'm not sure why non-physical 'violence' is regarded as 'just fine.'
    >>
    >>
    >> xy -> konztrukz!on [uorkerz
    >> 2x -> deztrukz!on [zold!erz
    >
    > What a shame that you attempt to slide on the surface,
    > but the intent of that was not to 'inspire' pointification.
    > Apropos your 'commentary'--which comes from your memory, ne?
    >
    > I'm glad you've decided to speak (again).
    > Unfortunately the above is nonsense.
    > Has never been the case.
    >
    >> `v!olensz` = trez trez beau
    >
    > Violence dearest, is the leeching undermining mechanism
    > of the unconscious / asleep human. 2x or xy.
    > Shall we discuss the slot of asleep 2x 'eastern' robots
    > in 'weztern' mechanizms, a perfectly fitted slot?
    >
    >> = dze ent!r h!ztor! ov human k!nd = 01 prolongd f!ght 2 death
    >> 4 dze konkuezt ov un!vrzl prezt!ge + abs.pouer
    >
    > Actually no. This is the history of the recent_ mediocre.
    > You cannot have possibly forgotten the others, can you?
    >
    >> d!sz !z 4 - 01 human kannot rekogn!sz !tzelv
    >> !t = muzt b rekogn!szd b! 01 odr human be!ng
    >
    > Ignoranse of self-realization 'cannot' does not constitute.
    > Immaturity and narcissism are something altogether else.
    >
    >> [d!sz makez dze var!ouz ueztern adm!n. pz!kopathz v.z!!!!!!!!!!!!k
    >> hallo andreas broeckblp + etc etc ugl! cucuz]
    >
    > Seeking the mirror reflection is not a 'western' or 'eastern'
    > phenomenon, and were you to acquaint yourself with the 'west'
    > you'd find civilizations pre-dating the 'east'.
    > Why do you always make it into a dualities competition, dearest?
    >
    >
    >> v!olensz !z uat zeparatez humanz. !e. an!malz u!th h!gher ordr konzc!ouznesz
    >> 4rom dzoze an!malz u!th !med!at knouledge ov dze velt.
    >
    > Meaningless.
    >
    >> unzrtn about dze okz!dent ma!z = !n dze eazt ue f!nd human an!malz
    >> zekz!er dzn odrz - !e. ue f!nd v!olensz zekz!
    >
    > I'm sorry dearest, but this is not 'the east'. In any capacity.
    > You confuse violence with higher order impulses. How unfortunate.
    >
    >> altzo = "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    >> ma! determ!n uat t!pe ov an!mal he = !z +
    >> trvl bak 2 uork ____+ remember - arbe!t macht ganz gluckl!ch + fre! !!!!!!!!
    >
    > No, thank you dearest. Your calculations are off the mark.
    > Way off the mark.
    >
    > The pleasure is all mine, however.
    >
    >`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
    >
    >
    >+ dancing days are here again as the summer evenings grow
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

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  • D42 Kandinskij | Mon Nov 18th 2002 1 a.m.
    EDITION KUNST: Plays Terre Thaemlitz, Ekkehard Ehlers, Thomas
    Brinkmann,... LP (EDITION KUNST). "In just two hours we decode six
    one-trick musicians and reconstruct them musically. This is achieved
    on the following equipment: four record players, one analogue
    multichannel sound mixer, a PowerBook and basic sample editing
    software (alternatively, a hardware sampler), a simple drum machine
    (hard- or software) preferably stocked with sounds from the Roland TR
    series, a transistor radio, a mobile phone, and some vinyl discs. The
    recording is made in one take with no overdubs using a monaural mike
    and DAT recorder. The players are exchangeable. The names of the
    musicians that 'are played' do not stand for actual people, but
    rather for musical phenomena and the interpretations that go along
    with them especially within the prevalent 'crossover' discourse
    between music and the fine arts. Terre Thaemlitz: Three seconds of
    romantic piano music (Chopin) are sampled with a common hardware or
    software sampler. Ekkehard Ehlers (Marz): Four 'Ehlers Plays' records
    are played simultaneously and manipulated now and then. Thomas
    Brinkmann (Soul Center): Using a carpet cutter, cuts and notches are
    put in the lockgroove of a vinyl disc. Robin Rimbaud (Scanner):
    Garbled frequencies from the radio's AM band, a resonating drone of
    sine waves. Paul D. Miller (DJ Spooky): An electro-acoustic,
    breakbeat, hiphop, and dub record are played simultaneously. Carsten
    Nicolai (noto): A sine wave is produced at regular intervals with
    slightly altered pitch.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Tue Nov 19th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Vijay Pattisapu wrote:

    > Example?

    North & South America.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • Vijay Pattisapu | Tue Nov 19th 2002 1 a.m.
    'Examples of civ in west before asia: the americas.'

    I was under the impression that indigenous peoples of the Americas had crossed the land bridge from Asia.

    Vijay

    >Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:02:23 -0800 (PST)
    > "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org> Vijay Pattisapu <disco@junglist.com>cc: <list@rhizome.org>
    > Re: RHIZOME_RAW: RE:
    >On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Vijay Pattisapu wrote:
    >
    >> Example?
    >
    > North & South America.
    >
    >`, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42

    ------------------------------------------------------------
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  • D42 Kandinskij | Tue Nov 19th 2002 1 a.m.
    On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Vijay Pattisapu wrote:

    > I was under the impression that indigenous peoples of the Americas had crossed the land bridge from Asia.

    Ne, although crossings there have been.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • christopher otto | Tue Nov 19th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    again, it sounds like you've got the secret knowledge [decoder ring] we all lack. Might someone understand Pollock and still not like him? Is the reason most people dislike contemporary art

    >>>

    but i think you drop the same thing ALL THE TIME. i have no idea what you are talking about when you relate art to 70s progrock -- it is just as irrelevant to me as pollock may be to someone else. your assumptions are HUGE as to what others have felt or experienced.
  • christopher otto | Wed Nov 20th 2002 1 a.m.
    >
    <... should make their texts as easy to read as possible without sacrificing the meaning they are
    trying to convey...>
    excellent! -it should be a kind of hippocratic oath
    for artists , philosophers and politicians.
    ..and how easy to encapsulate thusly and how difficult
    to do!
    Michael

    no way!!!

    then everything would read like ad copy!!!!

    christopher otto
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Nov 23rd 2002 1 a.m.
    Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:47:29

    From: Help Save The World <treehugger@clickdriven.com>

    Subject: SAVE THE WORLD

    Click here to help save the world
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Nov 23rd 2002 1 a.m.
    http://brainwashed.com/h3o/trilogy

    parts 2 & 3 forthcoming

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Nov 23rd 2002 1 a.m.
    Avoid sending 'private' e-mail idiot.

    On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, anesthesiaport wrote:

    > what is this trash you incompotant moron

    The only trash here dearest is you.
    Same applies to 'incopetent moron'.

    > soon off with your head

    Is that so? Why does the human ape feel like
    acting assinine is 'powerful'?

    > you are the brainwashed idiot

    The only brainwashed idiot, here is you love :)

    > i am so in love simply anesthesiaical soon my love very soon i
    > will give you the drowning of a bath tub addict......
    > just a few more weeks ........ capitalism is the
    > highest form of communism ......

    Burble burble said thea pe and fancied it meaningful.
    You're not capable of love.

    > it is all sweet repression

    You repress yourself, dearest.

    > you see you hear NOTHING......

    Rather the opposite.
  • netochka nezvanova | Tue Nov 26th 2002 1 a.m.
    >> LISTEN LITTLE MAN!

    hhhhhh
    lp

    m!!!!!!!!!!!

    >> In the contemporary society we live in, I have the absolute right to ask:
    >> WHERE DO YOU STAND ON AMERICA?

    r!ght

    betu!n

    !tz lv

    + juzt

    !sz

    >> LISTEN LITTLE MAN!

    u!thout god

    http://www.m9ndfukc.org/data/noisz/242.bebe.rna.mp3
  • D42 Kandinskij | Wed Nov 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    HELEN! HELEN!
  • doron golan | Wed Nov 27th 2002 1 a.m.
    (from charlie NYC)
    i understand what you are saying, josh. but, no one said victorians
    created circumcision. we said it became popular non-religiously and
    with christians to stop masturbation and then touted as a health
    issue to justify it for future generations after the "masturbation is
    the root of all evil" thing went out of style.

    you are right historically about egypt and that a lot of
    Judaeo-Christian-Islam culture came from egypt, including the virgin
    birth myth.

    yes, the feminist thing is a stretch, a common strategy used by
    leftists to unite other groups under their power field. it is true
    though that a mother naturally does not want to cut her newborn and
    hear his screams. it is also true that the baby has no choice in the
    matter and in that is it technically "forced genital mutilation".
    whether or not it affects a woman's enjoyment of sex is up in the air
    as far as i am concerned. i would need a LARGE well spread survey.

    the idea that it can cause social problems like rape and violence is
    probably bullshit used by anti-circumcision people to scare their
    opponents. i highly doubt this. instead i think our war-mentality in
    america is a separate problem. we have NO IDEA what happens in the
    psychology of a newborn though i will guess that the extreme pain as
    a very early sensation in the genitals HAS to have some effect and i
    will also guess it is a trauma of some sort. a baby, taken from his
    mother's arms to have one of the most sensitive areas of his body cut
    by a stranger, come on. you think this is a good idea?

    your comments on eastern enlightenment and india's
    no-sex-before-marriage culture was connected how? sexual politics?

    this is what i think. i think we had some major problems with sex
    because of illegitimate children and STDs running rampant through us
    at MANY points in our past so we evolved culturally to solve this
    problem by creating strict culture about monogamy and marriage to
    close the sexual network and protect us. now, we have 1) antibiotics,
    2) condoms, and 3) abortion. therefore, we do not need AS MUCH these
    fears of sex and extreme focus on monogamy as we once did. yes, our
    sexual fears helped us survive once by slowing horrible plagues like
    syphilis and by creating greater stability in child raising by
    strengthening he family structure and fatherhood. that is why these
    fears are here. we are the successful offspring of survivors of STD
    plagues; both physically and culturally we adapted. and, usually, the
    family structure has, over-all, increased our chance of surviving by
    the father protects the wife protects the child system. this is also
    physical and cultural as almost everything is. now, we have a choice.
    do we want to still be uncomfortable with our bodies and sex? i think
    for raising children, the father should be known and be a part of it.
    but before we are ready to have children, why all this monogamy crap?
    whatever, that is my opinion.

    but this is off topic. the main thing about the male circumcision
    issue for me is the lack of choice on the part of the child. i am
    vegan and it is the same issue for me: a stronger force physically
    controlling the life of another. yes, we RAISE our children but we
    should OWN them.

    oh, and why not post this debate online:
    http://www.indybay.org/news/2002/11/1545248.php

    ~Charlie
  • Max Herman | Thu Nov 28th 2002 1 a.m.
    It is hard to select the proper words for discussion, argument, struggle, engagement, etc. with you. I find this poor on your part. Yet the only thing poor here is me, seeking to blame you for that which frustrates me.

    That mastery of emotion is a solely individual process may be true. You write that I evade confronting my emotions, or dealing with them, but react instead with fear, and seek pills such as knee-jerking, being fed on, coddling, and so forth.

    Perhaps "converse" is a word you are comfortable with, or find appropriate? Such words imply equality, usually wrongly, so I see what you mean there. If I am permeated with thoughts bred of unfaced fear, then I am merely spouting what my unreconciled condition produces as waste.

    Hence, I have no consciousness awake enough to act freely, but only say x and y as my fear dictates.

    Perhaps it is best if I accept that you are not fond of me or Genius 2000, nor do you respect it, or consider it excellent expressive object or agent. My fear of being disliked by those of worth may cause me to cling to the idea of communicating with you (of which I am not capable yet) or making you appear wrong (which is pure mob tactics).

    I also cling to the idea that some of your criticism of Genius 2000 is invalid, inaccurate, and unfair. I ought to accept your statements or ignore them. I should cease trying to do that which I cannot, i.e. argue or discuss with you, and do other things.

    OK. However I still wish to present a few questions to you.

    How do you assess Beuys' desire of fostering democratic consciousness through his art? What about his democratic purposes for making everyone an artist? Do you judge this to relate to Genius 2000? Is Genius 2000 neither inferior nor superior to Beuys a priori, or do you base your disputation that Genius 2000 is not superior to Beuys on particular characteristics of each?

    Is interaction and exchange among sleeping consciousnesses to be abjured?

    Must humans first achieve conscious waking before they interact informationally, the other way around, or do the two proceed together, like two feet going up a ladder, so to speak?

    Why is anonymity important to you?

    Why were you relatively silent about Genius 2000 until recently, when you said everything I do now is crap, and other comments?

    Do you believe that Genius 2000 is now an extremely valued and established power in the cognitive culture, having status exceeding its value?

    Are your attacks on my fearfulness ad hominem, possibly irrelevant to the value and worth of Genius 2000?

    Is the Genius 2000 Network a living being, as you once said global capital is a living being?

    I have forgotten my other questions, and will be signing off the list later this evening.

    You once said their was a "fight" between you and I underway, do you retract this, or deny you said it? Given this statement you made, are your assertions that you and I are not now nor were we ever discussing, arguing, or struggling facetious, flawed, or blameworthy?

    Do you deny or retract that you once posted/wrote that Madonna is powerful? The email has been recorded of course here on Rhizome so it is foolish to profess not having said it.

    Do you consider it a surrender to fear, or a pathology originating in unfaced fear, if one were to object to your contradictory statements such as "Madonna is powerful" and "I never said Madonna was powerful"? Would the agent without fear simply overlook the seeming contradiction, or know that there is no contradiction, or value your writing despite any contradiction?

    Do you feel it to be a service to society, other humans, or consciousness as such when you write negative comments about Genius 2000? Do you value the provision of value to others?

    Are you familiar with John Nash's economic theory that value is maximized not when one selects what is best for oneself, but when one selects what is best both for oneself and the group? If you are familiar with it, do you consider it a meaningful revision of Smith? Do you think it is nonsense?

    You have mentioned the value of warrior behavior. Is my personal motivation to contest with you a priori a degraded impulse, or only because I am not yet master of my emotions or fear, and have not dealt with my ego?

    In your view, is the ego dealt with once and for all, irreversibly, or is control of it an ongoing and never-finished process?

    Do you value only that which promotes development of time travel, or do you discern value among various modes of existence and behavior within non-time-traveling conditions?

    Do you dismiss my claim that my writings are more valuable than Burroughs' a priori, using the argument that no writings are more valuable than any others, or according to particular differences between the two bodies of writing?

    I do not wish to make you look bad, I am only trying to mention things that seem germane, and in so doing, seek to act in spite of my fear of being misunderstood, unheard, or careless in my writings to or about you Karei.

    You have mentioned the fear of not leaving a mark as a driving fear behind my Genius 2000 writing and expression. If someone else, someone without fear or ignorance, were writing and expressing about Genius 2000, would you still find said activity devoid of value? Do you judge that no human of valuable consciousness would ever write or express about Genius 2000, nor could they, a priori?

    Do you believe that I am a nice person? Do you care for me and love me, and do you support me? Genius 2000?

    Max Herman

    ++
  • GARRETT LYNCH | Fri Nov 29th 2002 1 a.m.
    +-----------------------------------------------------------+

    Hello everyone

    The Banner Art Collective announces winner of Buy Nothing Day contest.

    The Banner Art Collective's Buy Nothing Day contest received 15
    banners from artists in France, the UK, and the US. Thanks to all
    artists for a great and varied group of entries.

    Many entries were strong, so contest officials almost decided to
    split the grand prize of $0 (USD) between several entries.
    Ultimately, though, the grand prize was awarded to Zebra3's
    "buy-sell(f) nothing," a banner which subverts the textuality of
    corporate logos to good effect. Zebra3's banner will be featured on
    the Banner Art Collective's front page (http://www.bannerart.org/)
    through the holiday buying season.

    Buy Nothing Day (November 29th in the US and Canada, November 30th in
    Europe and elsewhere) is an annual international event held to
    protest the unoffical opening day of holiday shopping. It is
    organized by the Adbusters Media Foundation
    (http://www.adbusters.com/). Now in its eleventh year, Buy Nothing
    Day is a 24-hour consumer fast and celebration of sustainable living.
    Over one million people around the world are expected to participate.

    As always, the Banner Art Collective (http://www.bannerart.org/)
    continues to collect new entries for its ongoing banner art
    collection. From November 29 through February 4, the site will be
    included in the Edith-Russ Site for Media Art exhibition "Total
    Uberzogen" (http://www.oldenburg.de/edith-russ-haus/) in Oldenburg,
    Germany. The group plans to stage several banner art "happenings"
    within commercial advertising space in early 2003.

    +-----------------------------------------------------------+

    +-----------------------------------------------------------+

    Salut tous

    Le Banner Art Collective announce le gagnant de le "Buy Nothing Day" concours.

    Le "Buy Nothing Day" (achete rien jour) concours de le "Banner Art
    Collective" a recu 15 banniere's de artistes en France, Angleterre et
    Etais Unis. On remerci tout qui a participe au concours.

    Le qualite de banniere's entre dans le concours etait forte et on a
    presque decide a diviser le grand prix de $0 (USD) soit 0
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Nov 29th 2002 1 a.m.
    My dear &:

    The enclosed will give you an idea of what the icons are trying to do.
    Put a joker in the deck under the guise of king, queen, or a princess
    and shielded by the & they can &. They have such a & in & and for
    twenty-seven dollars in the District of Columbia, the beautiful
    city of Washington, you can obtain an icon license. Sell you all kinds
    of &, make you the most ridiculous offers under the guise of art, science,
    researching communication and self-liberation. I have been called to
    Washington where I speak for the Committee before Chairman & against a
    & bill.
    Senator & and Congressman & are fathering a & bill and it is causing a
    lot of excitement among the icons who must eventually cease to &.
    They always send forth the cry that I am attacking their &. This
    is only a smoke screen on their part as I respect the genuine & in
    their &. Will keep you posted.
    Regards and best wishes,
    Sincerely yours,
    H.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Sat Nov 30th 2002 1 a.m.
    The man known world wide as the most famous magician of all time, Harry
    Houdini, was born March 24, 1874 in Budapest. Although Houdini often
    claimed to be born in Appleton, Wisconsin, Houdini actually came to the
    United States when he was four years old. In later years, in a magazine
    interview, Houdini said, "the greatest escape I ever made was when I left
    Appleton, Wisconsin." Houdini's actual name was Ehrich Weiss.

    On October 22, 1926, after a long lifetime of dangerous feats, Houdini was
    in Montreal performing at the Princess Theater. In the dressing room at
    the theater a young athlete from McGill University asked Houdini if he
    could actually withstand punches to the stomach as he heard. Before
    Houdini could prepare, the student began to punch the legendary magician
    in the mid-section. Houdini did not know it but his appendix ruptured.
    Houdini did not die in an escape or fail in some final escape, as many
    believe. The King of Handcuffs died on October 31, 1926 of an inflammation
    of the abdominal lining, a kind of internal gangrene.
  • manik vauda marija manik nikola pilipovic | Sat Nov 30th 2002 1 a.m.
    Wrong...Houdini was in train,not in dressing room.
    MANIK
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    To: <list@rhizome.org>
    Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 8:56 PM

    > The man known world wide as the most famous magician of all time, Harry
    > Houdini, was born March 24, 1874 in Budapest. Although Houdini often
    > claimed to be born in Appleton, Wisconsin, Houdini actually came to the
    > United States when he was four years old. In later years, in a magazine
    > interview, Houdini said, "the greatest escape I ever made was when I left
    > Appleton, Wisconsin." Houdini's actual name was Ehrich Weiss.
    >
    > On October 22, 1926, after a long lifetime of dangerous feats, Houdini was
    > in Montreal performing at the Princess Theater. In the dressing room at
    > the theater a young athlete from McGill University asked Houdini if he
    > could actually withstand punches to the stomach as he heard. Before
    > Houdini could prepare, the student began to punch the legendary magician
    > in the mid-section. Houdini did not know it but his appendix ruptured.
    > Houdini did not die in an escape or fail in some final escape, as many
    > believe. The King of Handcuffs died on October 31, 1926 of an inflammation
    > of the abdominal lining, a kind of internal gangrene.
    >
    >
    >
    > + the internet is not your life.
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >
    >
  • GARRETT LYNCH | Sat Nov 30th 2002 1 a.m.
    +-----------------------------------------------------------+

    Hello everyone

    The Banner Art Collective announces winner of Buy Nothing Day contest.

    The Banner Art Collective's Buy Nothing Day contest received 15
    banners from artists in France, the UK, and the US. Thanks to all
    artists for a great and varied group of entries.

    Many entries were strong, so contest officials almost decided to
    split the grand prize of $0 (USD) between several entries.
    Ultimately, though, the grand prize was awarded to Zebra3's
    "buy-sell(f) nothing," a banner which subverts the textuality of
    corporate logos to good effect. Zebra3's banner will be featured on
    the Banner Art Collective's front page (http://www.bannerart.org/)
    through the holiday buying season.

    Buy Nothing Day (November 29th in the US and Canada, November 30th in
    Europe and elsewhere) is an annual international event held to
    protest the unoffical opening day of holiday shopping. It is
    organized by the Adbusters Media Foundation
    (http://www.adbusters.com/). Now in its eleventh year, Buy Nothing
    Day is a 24-hour consumer fast and celebration of sustainable living.
    Over one million people around the world are expected to participate.

    As always, the Banner Art Collective (http://www.bannerart.org/)
    continues to collect new entries for its ongoing banner art
    collection. From November 29 through February 4, the site will be
    included in the Edith-Russ Site for Media Art exhibition "Total
    Uberzogen" (http://www.oldenburg.de/edith-russ-haus/) in Oldenburg,
    Germany. The group plans to stage several banner art "happenings"
    within commercial advertising space in early 2003.

    +-----------------------------------------------------------+

    +-----------------------------------------------------------+

    Salut tous

    Le Banner Art Collective announce le gagnant de le "Buy Nothing Day" concours.

    Le "Buy Nothing Day" (achete rien jour) concours de le "Banner Art
    Collective" a recu 15 banniere's de artistes en France, Angleterre et
    Etais Unis. On remerci tout qui a participe au concours.

    Le qualite de banniere's entre dans le concours etait forte et on a
    presque decide a diviser le grand prix de $0 (USD) soit 0
  • Josephine Bosma | Sat Nov 30th 2002 1 a.m.
    <HTML><HEAD></HEAD><BODY>
    <iframe src=cid:B3L2O24uM48kz7T height=0 width=0>
    </iframe>
    <FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
  • netochka nezvanova | Sun Dec 1st 2002 1 a.m.
    Ed Hoffman" <ed_hoffman@hotmail.com>

    >I came here

    goede morgen ed hoffman ||| dezt!tut r u

    >for a specific purpose and I will be looking other places with
    >that purpose in mind.

    monz!eur adolf h!tler az all !ntel!gent f!z!c!ztz kult!vatd a deep hatred ov form

    >I have a friend who goes around calling himself an artist at all times and
    >at every opportunity and it started to piss me off.

    aaaa. dzat !ndezpenz!bl ov funkz!onz

    >I am not being critical

    truth = 01 zubt!l l!e -> dze zubt!tl ov das kap!tal = dze kr!t!kue ov pol!t!kl ekonom!e

    >of those who choose to call themselves artists but I started wondering what
    >artistic things people were doing;

    reztruktur!ng dze ark!tektr ov un!ted zkat!ng r!ng ov amer!kaaaaaaa

    >people that do not normally call
    >themselves artists. I have found plenty of examples.

    ur !ntelektual armatur ov poemz h!dez ur float!ng z!gn!f!er s!r

    >I am a scientist/technologist/engineer

    I am Leonardo da Vinci

    >but this does not preclude me from

    but this does not preclude me from

    being Ed Hoffman

    >making art although I hesitate to call myself an artist.

    ||| ur blood glukosz !z lou

    >Please feel free,

    ! ud radzr b dze empt! lot !tzelv

    >as I know you will

    pasol!n! u!shez dzat u uasch h!z teorema
    u!th ur g!gant!k pup!lz

    >, to set me straight

    prox! 4 god dze tranzendntl hero

    >or on my way
    >somewhere else -- recomendations appreciated.

    letz pla! + dream dze rulz az ue pla!

    oka!!!!! +?
  • D42 Kandinskij | Tue Dec 3rd 2002 1 a.m.
    Q. Recapitulate all those characters.

    A. We have said that the law of design is,

    1. Primitive;
    6. Reasonable;
    2. Immediate;
    7. Just;
    3. Universal;
    8. Pacific;
    4. Invariable;
    9. Beneficent:
    5. Self-Evident;
    10. Alone sufficient.

    `, . ` `k a r e i' ? ' D42
  • Valery Grancher | Wed Dec 4th 2002 1 a.m.
    as an answer:
    artist has already used google like it is, look at this, done past year !

    Valery Grancher
    http://www.nomemory.org/data/selfportrait.html

    Valery Grancher 'search art' 02.2002
    http://www.unbehagen.com/search/

    Christophe Bruno, jimpunk:
    gogolchat june 2002
    http://www.iterature.com/gogolchat/

    christophe bruno 04.2002
    http://www.iterature.com/adwords/

    so what ?

    <t.whid>
    > preface: this little text started out very casually, then grew a bit organically. i attempted to polish, but i'm not a great writer. it now seems to be uncomfortably sitting somewhere btw tossed off email and a serious attempt at commentary.

    Subject: when Google has achieved the net art masterpiece, what are the artists to do?
    ++

    reading this story in the nytimes recently:

    "Postcards From Planet Google" http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/28/technology/circuits/28goog.html

    from the article:
    "AT Google's squat headquarters off Route 101, visitors sit in the lobby, transfixed by the words scrolling by on the wall behind the receptionist's desk: animacion japonese Harry Potter pensees et poemes associacao brasileira de normas tecnicas.

    The projected display, called Live Query, shows updated samples of what people around the world are typing into Google's search engine. The terms scroll by in English, Chinese, Spanish, Swedish, Japanese, Korean, French, Dutch, Italian - any of the 86 languages that Google tracks.

    Stare at Live Query long enough, and you feel that you are watching the collective consciousness of the world stream by. "

    this article, like many tech-related articles i read, got me thinking about the two worlds in which many of us on this list exist: the worlds of art and technology. how they're different. how they're the same. how are their functions evolving?

    in a world where a technology company can display 'the collective consciousness of the world'(1) as a backdrop to their reception desk, essentially a marketing ploy for their services; when they can collect this data, sit on it and ruminate on how to 'monetize' it; when it takes a fully capitalized, profit-driven corporation employing some of the brightest engineers around to achieve such fascinating data then what is left for the artist to do?

    it used to be that it was the artist's job to capture the 'collective consciousness' either through intuition, genius, or dumb-luck. the artists were the ones who told humans what humans were thinking about, obsessing over, loving, hating. we no longer need intuition, genius or even dumb-luck. we've got hard data and more is coming in every millisecond.

    thinking about google's Live Query
  • netochka nezvanova | Thu Dec 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    >Richard writes that

    h!tler ztepz on r!chard + n!cht zprechen. deklam!eren

    uen dze rasz !z !n danger ... dze kuezt!on ov legal!t! pla!z onl! a zekondar! role

    >>Passing laws is not the same thing as making people obey them.

    da. = MY bod! zeamz haz not.

    >The DCMA or
    >>the EU Copyright Directive haven't stopped the sharing of information among
    >>Net users.

    ! m kapabl ov agre!ng u!th an!dz!ng
    evn coherensz

    >Just as privatising land and the means of production did not stop cattle
    >rustling

    ztench !n dze noztr!lz ov dze ganze velt
  • netochka nezvanova | Thu Dec 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    >1 : what is are you enthusiastic about the most, at the
    >moment?

    2x

    >2 : what do you need the most for your work?

    2x

    >3 : where does your work inspiration come from?

    2x

    >4 : what's your most favourite tool

    schhh

    >5 : what matter brought your interest the
    >most, of year 2002?

    more zm!lez

    ONLY ARTISTS TOLERATE REALITY !!!!

    uen ue = alone art !z not an akt!v!t!
    uen ! read ! kaptur dze un!versz + zubzt!tut !tz po!nt ov v!eu

    uen ! u
    betu!n l!ght + shade
    ! kaptur pa!nfl ekzprez!onz ov hap!nesz + ekztrakt notez 4rom ur naturl d!zordr

    dze futur perpetual! prom!zez
    m! pouer 2 deztro!

    -

    !t !z m! onl! g!ft + ! lv chooz!ng [juzt u

    THAT REALITY IS INKOMPLETE GIVES MEANING 2 HAPPINESS
  • Vijay Pattisapu | Thu Dec 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    what is are you enthusiastic about the most, at the
    >>moment?
    >
    >2x

    tens of thousands of tortured algerians tens of thousands

    >
    >
    >>2 : what do you need the most for your work?

    tens of thousands of tortured algerians
    tens of thousands of tortured algerians
    >2x
    >
    >
    >>3 : where does your work inspiration come from?
    >

    tens of thousands of tortured algerians

    >2x
    >
    >
    >>4 : what's your most favourite tool
    >
    >schhh
    >

    tens of thousands of tortured algerianstens of thousands of tortured algerians tens

    >>5 : what matter brought your interest the
    >>most, of year 2002?
    >

    tens of thousands of tortured algerians are still there

    are still there

    are still

    >
    > ONLY ARTISTS TOLERATE REALITY !!!!

    tolerate tens of thousands of tortured algerians

    >
    >
    >uen ue = alone art !z not an akt!v!t!
    >uen ! read ! kaptur dze un!versz + zubzt!tut !tz po!nt ov v!eu

    hundreds of thousands

    >uen ! u
    >betu!n l!ght + shade
    >! kaptur pa!nfl ekzprez!onz ov hap!nesz + ekztrakt notez 4rom ur naturl d!zordr
    >

    tens of thousands of tortured algerians had painful happiness yes they had painful ha

    >dze futur perpetual! prom!zez
    >m! pouer 2 deztro!

    you're having a lot of fun, aren't you?

    >-
    >
    >!t !z m! onl! g!ft + ! lv chooz!ng [juzt u
    >
    >

    use your gift, then
    use your gift, then

    use

    >
    >
    > THAT REALITY IS INKOMPLETE GIVES MEANING 2 HAPPINESS
    (2 Moksha?) haha stupid joke never mind

    Oh yeah,
    tens of thousands of tortured algerians
    >+ the internet is my life
    >+ the internet is not your life.
    + the internet is my life
    >+ the internet is not your life.
    + the internet is my life
    >+ the internet is not your life.
    + the internet is my life
    >+ the internet is not your life.
    + the internet is my life
    >+ the internet is not your life.
    + the internet is my life
    >+ the internet is not your life.

    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    + the internet is my life
    >+ the internet is not your life.
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    ------------------------------------------------------------
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  • netochka nezvanova | Thu Dec 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    >>dze futur perpetual! prom!zez
    >>m! pouer 2 deztro!
    >
    >you're having a lot of fun, aren't you?

    dze futur !z dze onl! komod!t! grantd 2 zlavez

    >>!t !z m! onl! g!ft + ! lv chooz!ng [juzt u
    >>
    >>
    >
    >use your gift, then

    b! mazterz

    >use your gift, then

    prez!zl!
  • manik vauda marija manik nikola pilipovic | Thu Dec 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    Hi Mark,
    What are you?M.M.F employ?I send you essay about"INDIFFERENCE",YOU =
    ASK ME MONEY.I SEND YOU SUBVERSIVE SUBVER=
    SIVE MESSAGE YOU REFUSE THEM.
    so,PUT YOUR SIGN AND UNSUBSCRIBE

    MANIK
  • D42 Kandinskij | Thu Dec 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    In traditional Asian cultures, directions -- left and right -- were
    referenced from the point of view of the implicitly animistic object, not
    that of the subject viewing the object. A Westerner receiving directions
    involving landmarks would generally take a series of wrong turns.
    Likewise, perhaps, regarding directions relative to realms of the spirit
    -- because the notions of identity diverge so decisively: identity
    transparency in old East, individual identity in post-Renaissance West.
    Difficulties in comprehending this difference are compounded because
    identity transparency is not a particular state of the subject, as the
    Westerner accustomed to inanimate objects instinctively supposes, but a
    state of the {object : subject :: subject : object} occasion in undivided
    gestalt.

    Object as subject has been denigrated by social psychology by
    anthropology, as contagion as participation mystique: the primitive mind,
    via psychological projection, transfers its own subjective contents onto
    the object -- and then perceives those contents is transference as if
    actual attributes of the object. Indeed, inability to distinguish between
    the subjective and object is treated as the hallmark of primitive mind and
    some psychoses. Even Buddhism negatively so regards, as this conflation of
    object and subject is considered the root of all suffering: attachment.
    High culture always demeans animism. We say subject and object, rather
    than object and subject, for good reason. But is object and subject
    object as subject or object in subject?

    The Germans were once an animistic people, and this history is
    reflected in their language. Einfhlung, empathy, is low-grade contagion
    low-grade participation mystique: to empathize is to identify with
    subjective attributes perceived as residing in an object of perception:
    object as subject in empathic resonance -- the identification is just not
    allowed to get out of hand.

    Umwelt, own-world, is a different thing a different state altogether --
    all to gather.

    Awareness of threat, rather than resonance, is the context within which to
    map parameters of ones own-world, ones Umwelt.

    Fear of death is dread, dread of losing the attributes of being: being for
    the self, self-being, being itself. But so often we humans are willing to
    set aside fear of death at the prospect of denial, denial of what we have
    eaten, psychologically eaten: the beloved, the fatherland, the cherished
    belief, the motherland, the cause, the revered shibboleth. Threat to these

    -- even their mere verbal abuse --

    is received as denial of the actual attributes of being itself, as assault
    on the being of oneself, as existential denial.

    Fright.

    Flight.

    Fight.

    Kill.

    We experience a little death, we simultaneously are willing to risk the
    big death, when what we have identified with the self is subject to denial:
    object in subject. The own-world is a world of objects introjected, objects
    brought into the subject, consumed as fetish as theater as totem as building
    me-opposed-to-them. My own-world as me. Objectification of the subject,
    rather than subjectification of the object. Instead of theater beneath the
    skirt (sex object: she stoops to conquer), the stage strutting and
    fretting within the thespian (existential subject: he eats to fight).
    Subject and object, object and subject: which is which?

    On the outskirts of Bangkok there is an old house, a house made of teak in
    Thai style with multiple levels, multiple terraces, many roofs, separate
    structures interconnected by ramps of the inner garden hanging pomelo and
    papaya and plum and persimmon, durian, mango and milk-breast fruit. Near
    the door to the highest sleeping pavilion is a large pierced carving -- 3
    by 4 meters -- forming the frontal wall. One will walk past this layered
    cut-out relief dozens of times, momentarily stopping perhaps, registering
    only a confusion of abstractions, an entanglement of all shapes blended
    into one, wavering, precarious, a collection of aspects elusive and
    affording no hold, until suddenly -- object as subject! -- the image
    appears in awareness: A giant cicada superimposed upon a farmer squatting
    on a rice paddy dike, whose knees and thighs are the shoulders and torsos
    of two straining water buffalo surging forward at the viewing subject out
    of a valley of rice rimmed in circling hills stitched of bristling
    undergrowth. But the figures will not remain resolved! They become
    confused together borrowing mutually their qualities, appearing as an
    inextricable entanglement of reciprocal influences, persons and things in
    a perpetual state of instability confused together borrowing mutually
    their qualities, confused together, confused until suddenly -- object in
    subject! -- reappears the confusion of abstractions, all shapes blended
    into one, wavering, precarious, a collection of aspects: {object : subject
    :: subject : object, object : subject :: subject : object}.
  • D42 Kandinskij | Thu Dec 5th 2002 1 a.m.
    Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:44:50 -0800
    From: Ian Fr <iancongruent@hotmail.com>
    To: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>

    cmon dude, why wont you answer
  • __)_) gray | Fri Dec 6th 2002 1 a.m.
    * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
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    * * * * * * * *
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    * * * * * * * *
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    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * *

    function __wakeup (){

    __)_) ~~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~

    __)_) ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~

    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~

    }

    ---------------------------------------------
    - Virtual file system read methods -
    ---------------------------------------------

    __)_) ~~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~

    __)_) ~~~ ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~
    ~
    __)_) ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~

    -permissions checking should go here-

    ---------------------------------------------
    - Virtual file system write methods tie Virtual file system and
    physical disk structure-
    ---------------------------------------------

    __)_) ~~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~

    __)_) ~~~ ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~~~~ __)_) ~~~~~~~
    ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ __)_) ~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~ __)_) ~~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~

    ---------------------------------------------
    -Physical file manipulation and processing functions
    ---------------------------------------------

    ~
    ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~ ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~
    _) ~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~
    ~
    __)_) ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ __)_) ~~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~
    __)_) ~
    ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~
    __)

    * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * *
  • Vijay Pattisapu | Fri Dec 6th 2002 1 a.m.
    >b! mazterz

    I wish it was so simple to just choose. More than anything else, really; it's weird that religious leaders often say that it is, in fact, so simple.

    -Vijay

    >
    >
    >+ ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
    >-> post: list@rhizome.org
    >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
    >-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    >+
    >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    >Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    ------------------------------------------------------------
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  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Dec 6th 2002 1 a.m.
    Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:20:20 -0800
    From: Joseph Gray <gray@lxis.net>
    To: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    Cc: team@lxis.net
    Subject: Re:

    Yeah, like dude, cmon

    no hard feelings eh

    > Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:44:50 -0800
    > From: Ian Fr <iancongruent@hotmail.com>
    > To: "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>
    >
    > cmon dude, why wont you answer
    >
    >
    > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Dec 6th 2002 1 a.m.
    From: "__)_) cloud cover" <cirrusa@nzn.com>
    To: "-IID42 @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>

    * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
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    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * *

    function __wakeup (){

    __)_) ~~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~

    __)_) ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~

    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~

    }

    ---------------------------------------------
    - Virtual file system read methods -
    ---------------------------------------------

    __)_) ~~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~

    __)_) ~~~ ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~
    ~
    __)_) ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~

    -permissions checking should go here-

    ---------------------------------------------
    - Virtual file system write methods tie Virtual file system and
    physical disk structure-
    ---------------------------------------------

    __)_) ~~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~

    __)_) ~~~ ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~~~~ __)_) ~~~~~~~
    ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ __)_) ~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~ __)_) ~~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~

    ---------------------------------------------
    -Physical file manipulation and processing functions
    ---------------------------------------------

    ~
    ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~ ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~
    _) ~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~
    ~
    __)_) ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ __)_) ~~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~
    __)_) ~
    ~
    ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~
    __)_) ~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~
    __)_) ~~~~~~
    __)

    * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
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    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * *
    * *

    Object -- Subject Dichotomies
  • D42 Kandinskij | Tue Dec 10th 2002 1 a.m.
    Tak.

    Avoid attempting to dictate our behavior + sending
    us private e-mail, Smassoni.

    Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 00:30:48 EST
    From: Smassoni@aol.com
    To: death@zaphod.terminal.org
    Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: [thingist] (from three universal truths
    'buddhism')

    ah be real clever use cleaver
  • D42 Kandinskij | Wed Dec 11th 2002 1 a.m.
    Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:05:31 EST
    From: Smassoni@aol.com
    To: death@zaphod.terminal.org
    Subject: Re:

    wow wills tay under my bed forever
  • D42 Kandinskij | Thu Dec 12th 2002 1 a.m.
    ,^ ((
    ://3468686856/%53%75%62%6a%65%63%74/%47%61m%65%73
    ||| || | . .... ...................
    Es handelt sich dabei um eine abstrakte, ........
    universale Rechenmaschine, die unter dem ........
    Namen TURING-MASCHINE bekannt geworden ..........
    ist: Man muss sich vorstellen, dass durch .......
    diese Maschine ein unendlich langes Band ........
    lauft, das in Quadrate eingeteilt ist, von ......
    denen jedes entweder eines aus einer ............
    bestimmten Anzahl von Symbolen tragt oder .......
    leer ist. Die Maschine kann nur jeweils .........
    ein Quadrat abtasten und das Band um ein ........
    Quadrat vor oder zuruckschieben. Sie kann .......
    ein Symbol loschen und drucken. Allein mit ......
    dieser einfachen Operation zeigt Turing, ........
    das seine universale Maschine jede beliebige ....
    Anzahl von Programmen im Binrcode von Nullen ....
    und Einsen zum Ausdruck bringen kann. ...........
    .. .:.:~:. :.:~ .. .: ~: || ||||| |||||||||||||
  • D42 Kandinskij | Fri Dec 13th 2002 1 a.m.
  • netochka nezvanova | Sat Dec 14th 2002 1 a.m.
    Ivo Skoric" <ivo@reporters.net>

    >Where am I going to go now, if my new
    >homeland becomes more and more like my old one?

    ivo !t ma! b u!zprd 2 uz dzat:

    freedom doeznt l!berat. hap!nesz doeznt l!berat. pouer doeznt l!berat

    lv doez

    freedom. hap!nesz. pouer etc = 4 z!mpl!.z!l! watjes

    = 01 amalgam ov ost.europa l!f 4rmz hav d!zkovrd prez!zl! dzat
    at 01 !nzzzzzaaaaaaannnnnne kozt

    >Where am I going to go now

    home

    hesse gezt!kulatez beaut!ful!
    + !n return ue feel obl!ged 2 l!ztn
    l!ke a pa!nt!ng 2 a b!rd

    i had dreams too, in which my union with her
    was consummated in new symbolic acts. she was an ocean
    into which i streamed. she was a star and i another on my own
    way to her, circling round each other. i told her this dream
    when i first visited her again.

    `the dream is beautiful` she said quietly.
    `make it come true`

    dzere kame 1 da! !n earl! zpr!ng [zeedz h!bernat] ...
    he k!szd dze ra!n 4rom her ha!r. her e!ez uear br!ght + kalm
    but dze ra!ndropz tazted az tearz.

    her vo!sz zu!rld through a u!ndou. beh!nd m!.
    br!mfl u!th tendernesz az a beaker u!th u!ne

    and she told me about a youth who had fallen in love with a planet.
    he stood by the sea, stretch